Here is a better image showing how Costco will be situated.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/costco060618.jpg

We need a Nordstrom. We make consistent trips to Dallas for those, or purchase online. The others are good, but Nordstrom is best. Funny thing is we nearly always end up at Northpark or Stonebriar, and recently went to Nordstrom at Galleria. That is a pitiful Nordstrom. If we get one I hope it's better than that. They might have had less than half the stock of the Northpark location.

OKC's shopping is better than it was several years ago, but when we want efficient shopping we just go to Dallas for the weekend and go to Northpark. You can find nearly anything there. Our Penn Square Dillard's is the only store we have found that is better or equal to Dallas. But the bulk of our shopping can still be done in OKC.

Moat Nordstrom's are awful, and not busy at all. I went to 2 in NorCal, and they were not well stocked, and were almost empty.

Nordstrom’s is recognized as industry best in customer service and relationships. But you pay for it. It is doubtful that they would find enough regular customers here to make it work. The majority of OKCitians seem to look for value, not personal service. There is a market here, but thin. They are the ones that also travel and have high end shopping experiences when they do.

Look at Von Maur....if they aren’t busy, Nordstrom’s would die here. It’s a pipe dream in OKC or Tulsa.

The Nordstrom in Austin at Barton Creek Mall and the Park Meadows Mall here in South Denver has been like a ghost town whenever I have been in them

Decided to investigate but couldn't find the sales/sq ft for Von Maur. Nordstrom averages $370/sq ft and Neiman Marcus $467/sqft. Both these department stores are far above others, although it appears this source combines all department stores under a parent company, so, for instance, they list Macy's but not Bloomingdale's. Macy's averages around $150/ft and Dillard's comes in at $117/sq st. Again, I assume the number for Macy's includes all the department stores under that parent company. Since Von Maur is private, they probably don't have to publish their figures.

My source was emarketer.com

^

According to records filed with the City in 2016 as part of an incentive deal, Von Maur reported $27.5 million in sales in 161,561 SF, which equates to just over $170 / SF.

They had estimated they would do $40 million or $247 / SF.

According to the article in the OKlahoman, they are happy with the performance in OKC, and it appears they are doing better than the average Macy's or Dillard's. Encouraging, I would say. Can't say for TX, but as you know Pete, Nordstorm's does quite well in CA and the rest of the West coast.

Here is a better image showing how Costco will be situated.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/costco060618.jpg

Glad their not putting in any entrances besides the one at the light and along the service road.

According to the article in the OKlahoman, they are happy with the performance in OKC, and it appears they are doing better than the average Macy's or Dillard's. Encouraging, I would say. Can't say for TX, but as you know Pete, Nordstorm's does quite well in CA and the rest of the West coast.

Is that just raw sales or does it factor In the increase cost of the goods they have to buy? Macys and Dillards are going to have lower cost of goods sold numbers.

based on gross sales of the store.

Costco does a mind blowing roughly $1,100 sales per square foot. Sams is far behind at roughly $600 per square foot.

That's amazing.

According to the article in the OKlahoman, they are happy with the performance in OKC, and it appears they are doing better than the average Macy's or Dillard's. Encouraging, I would say. Can't say for TX, but as you know Pete, Nordstorm's does quite well in CA and the rest of the West coast.

Probably happy because the store got built and Von Maur hasnt hit the threshold to where the city has to pay them their share of sales tax TIF money. So its obviously not doing great, but maybe in the department world its not doing bad. Maybe $170 per square foot for department stores is ok (I dont see how) but thats definitely not good for smaller retail stores like your Gaps, Finish Lines, and Victorias Secrets.

And honestly, what is Von Maur going to say in the press when they have already invested a ton and signed a long-term lease?

"OKC is a cheap stinktown and we should never have come here. We are losing our butts!"

Probably happy because the store got built and Von Maur hasnt hit the threshold to where the city has to pay them their share of sales tax TIF money. So its obviously not doing great, but maybe in the department world its not doing bad. Maybe $170 per square foot for department stores is ok (I dont see how) but thats definitely not good for smaller retail stores like your Gaps, Finish Lines, and Victorias Secrets.

https://9to5mac.com/2017/07/29/apple-top-retailer-per-square-foot/

Average in 2017 is $325 per square foot for retail, down from $375 from the early 2000's.

Obviously, there are a lot of factors that play into this: store rent, hourly wages, incentives, etc. With OKC's low costs of living and "space" to build, $170 per square foot may be ok.

National avg for Macy’s is $198. Dillard’s is $126. Being avg means there are lots and lots of stores doing worse than that.

In general department stores are having a hard time...especially the high end ones. Kohl’s is way higher if that tells you something.

The Dillards at Penn Square is among the best in the chain (maybe the best). The men's store has Creed cologne - which is VERY rare in OKC. And it has a lot of upscale brands (similar to Von Maur and Nordstrom). I thoroughly enjoy shopping there. It must be doing well for Dillards to constantly keep increasing the upscale brands there.

I was of the impression that negotiations for a sales tax rebate whatchamacallit for Costco was in process. Then once that was agreed on, we'd hear about it. Then plans and permits would be filed, land purchased, and then construction would commence. Since building plans have been filed, can we safely assume this deal is basically a done deal and it's now just a matter of time to work? If so, did the tax negotiation succeed? Thanks

Here is a better image showing how Costco will be situated.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/costco060618.jpg

I don't know why, maybe it's nothing, but it seems putting the entrance and exit (which will be very, very busy at times), in such close proximity to the entrance ramp to the toll road, will cause significant traffic problems. It seems the access to COSTCO should be further down the road so the mass traffic decision-making can be stretched out

I was of the impression that negotiations for a sales tax rebate whatchamacallit for Costco was in process. Then once that was agreed on, we'd hear about it. Then plans and permits would be filed, land purchased, and then construction would commence. Since building plans have been filed, can we safely assume this deal is basically a done deal and it's now just a matter of time to work? If so, did the tax negotiation succeed? Thanks

Posts #751 and 756.

I don't know why, maybe it's nothing, but it seems putting the entrance and exit (which will be very, very busy at times), in such close proximity to the entrance ramp to the toll road, will cause significant traffic problems. It seems the access to COSTCO should be further down the road so the mass traffic decision-making can be stretched out

It does seem like an odd spot. It's not intended for anyone exiting Costco so you can bet there would be physical barriers to keep people from trying to immediately trying to get into the onramp from Costco. The main way to get out of Costco will be from Western. Otherwise you would have to go east to Santa fe. I wonder if the city will ever consider making walker go all the way to the service road. That would make my life easier when going home from Costco as I live in the neighborhood directly north from memorial.

I'm sure they would have liked another entrance/exit on Western closer to the turnpike but there is a drainage issue in that area.

Actually, I missed that down on the far right (east) there may be access to that cul-de-sac.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/costco072718a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/costco072718b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/costco072718c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/costco072718d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/costco072718e.jpg

I know they all look like this, but dang they are ugly.

I know they all look like this, but dang they are ugly.

Actually, this one is entirely metal for some reason.

Actually, this one is entirely metal for some reason.

Is it just because okc doesn’t have strict requirement or do companies just cheap out on oklahoma? Seems to be the case with a lot of stores that come here. You go down to dallas and the same stores have much nicer buildings they have built.

Every Costco I've seen, ever, has been metal and concrete, exactly like this one. They were born in an airplane hanger. They are known for being functional, NOT fancy. Just wait until you guys see their entrance and exit are actually just huge roll-up doors. You'll lose your dang minds, but trust me, it isn't personal. Just walk into any other Costco, anywhere.

Here's the Costco in central Dallas. Yup, it's metal:

https://www.robcon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/070717-Dallas-22-1800x1220.jpg

https://www.robcon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/070717-Dallas-6-1800x1201.jpg

Here's Wichita:

https://www.commercialmechanical.net/images/slider/east-wichita-costco.jpg

For the record, it looks like many of the older stores were a variety of materials (possibly dictated by locale) but it looks like the newest ones are mostly using this uniform look.

Pete does this mean it's a go? When do they start construction?

Tulsa's is mostly concrete block. Still ugly.

https://www.krmg.com/rf/image_lowres/Pub/p7/KRMG/2016/04/21/Images/photos.medleyphoto.9473202.jpg

I’ll jump in on the bandwagon. Whew! That’s ugly. Memorial can only contain so many giant beige boxes.

But they all basically are ugly boxes. In Oregon? Big ugly boxes. Costco does things their way. I know, I know, everyone on here wants to think it is because OKC sucks at everything, but in this case, it's not their fault.

Yeah I don’t at all disagree that it’s ugly. Just pointing out that in this case the blame for ugly mostly lies with Costco, and they are building it no differently here than in pretty much any city where they have put one recently. There are basically very few design controls in this part of the city - mostly related to code and landscaping requirements - and you can make an argument that there shouldn’t be much more than that in an area where most places are drive-to destinations in large seas of parking lots, and their finish does little to interfere with or diminish the value of its neighbors. Costco of course - by nature of its brand - will have quite the opposite effect.

I’m much more surprised at the Dallas location, which is near the center of town. If this were located in downtown OKC it would look very different.

Just wanted to dispel the oft-repeated narrative that we are doing things worse than (or even appreciably different from) other cities. If there had been a big design kerfuffle here which had killed the project the amount of complaining and caterwauling that we can’t get retail like other cities - and when we get a chance we run it off - would have been deafening.

Do we want Costco, or do we not? Well, if we do, that’s what a Costco apparently looks like these days.

Just wanted to dispel the oft-repeated narrative that we are doing things worse than (or even appreciably different from) other cities. If there had been a big design kerfuffle here which had killed the project the amount of complaining and caterwauling that we can’t get retail like other cities - and when we get a chance we run it off - would have been deafening.

Do we want Costco, or do we not? Well, if we do, that’s what a Costco apparently looks like these days.

Nothing to add, just thought it was worth repeating. The "waaa waaa, OKC gets the hind teat" BS needs to be saved for another day.

^^^^^^

Is it just because okc doesn’t have strict requirement or do companies just cheap out on oklahoma? Seems to be the case with a lot of stores that come here. You go down to dallas and the same stores have much nicer buildings they have built.

I think it's mostly the former. Costco stores are mostly ugly big boxes unless they are in an area where zoning requires them to build it differently.

I can't wait for this to get built, open and then I never have to see another Costco thread on here again. Just like Dave and Busters.

I can't wait for this to get built, open and then I never have to see another Costco thread on here again. Just like Dave and Busters.

What about a south side Costco? Norman? :)

I just can't wait to go buy my Kirkland ________________ (fill-in the blank).

Don't hold your breath... I think it can happen eventually but Costco seems very slow and determinate in their expansions. The one in Tulsa is over 2 years old, and as far as I know there's not another one on the horizon. So if it follows the time scale, another location is a few years out. I could see Norman/S. OKC supporting one very well though.

I can't wait for this to get built, open and then I never have to see another Costco thread on here again. Just like Dave and Busters.

Totally worked for Trader Joe's, nobody ever discusses that now!

Come to think of it, I've seen a couple Costco food courts on the outer wall, people can just walk up and order food without entering the store, no membership required, at least not asked for, and has some outside tables and chairs to sit and eat. I was in a Tucson AZ about 2 months ago and it was like this. I can't remember where I saw the other. They have a Cole slaw topped BBQ beef sandwich that I really like.

Come to think of it, I've seen a couple Costco food courts on the outer wall, people can just walk up and order food without entering the store, no membership required, at least not asked for, and has some outside tables and chairs to sit and eat. I was in a Tucson AZ about 2 months ago and it was like this. I can't remember where I saw the other. They have a Cole slaw topped BBQ beef sandwich that I really like.

They have some like that in California due to the nice weather.

Is it just because okc doesn’t have strict requirement or do companies just cheap out on oklahoma? Seems to be the case with a lot of stores that come here. You go down to dallas and the same stores have much nicer buildings they have built.

Is there an artist rendering or a photograph of a COSTCO that is considered "attractive?" I agree witb the majority on here that thay are big, dull warehouse -looking stores. All of them here in CO are.

Is there an artist rendering or a photograph of a COSTCO that is considered "attractive?" I agree witb the majority on here that thay are big, dull warehouse -looking stores. All of them here in CO are.

The Costco near me here in St. Louis is certainly not attractive. It’s not a metal building, though. It’s a beige stucco box, indistinguishable from all the big box stores that surround it in a very boring looking development. There are, at least, trees. And it’s on a hill. But no, not attractive.

I know it’s the suburbs, and I guess we’re not supposed to deserve better out of it because it’s bland, boring Memorial Road, but I had kind of hoped that Chisholm Creek would spur that end of the turnpike to a slightly higher aesthetic standard. I feel this is a problem with the OKC suburbs. You have flashes of nice things but they are surrounded by blah.

I know it’s the suburbs, and I guess we’re not supposed to deserve better out of it because it’s bland, boring Memorial Road, but I had kind of hoped that Chisholm Creek would spur that end of the turnpike to a slightly higher aesthetic standard. I feel this is a problem with the OKC suburbs. You have flashes of nice things but they are surrounded by blah.

St. Louis has the luxury of large, natural trees. While there may have been some cottonwoods or scrub oaks/cedars on the OKC site, that part of OKC is natural open plains. Trees have to be planted

Mugofbeer- I certainly understand that. And although I do think trees can flourish in Oklahoma and developments should take much more care in helping that along, that’s not really what I was talking about. (Incidentally, I think many parts of the STL suburbs, even with trees, are hideously ugly.) What I was talking about was the phenomenon of a nice, well thought out development like Chisholm Creek, surrounded on one side, soon to be, with a car vending machine and on the other side by a metal warehouse. When you drive north from Quail Springs Mall, you see a nice housing neighborhood with non-cookie-cutter houses, maybe a golf course, surrounded by neighborhoods of relatively cheap tract houses. It’s just kind of disjointed.

I know it’s the suburbs, and I guess we’re not supposed to deserve better out of it because it’s bland, boring Memorial Road, but I had kind of hoped that Chisholm Creek would spur that end of the turnpike to a slightly higher aesthetic standard. I feel this is a problem with the OKC suburbs. You have flashes of nice things but they are surrounded by blah.

In a climate like this, the city really needs stricter zoning standards to promote better aesthetics. You see a lot of this in Dallas (or at least parts of Dallas), which is one reason development down there is so much more visually appealing than in OKC.

In a climate like this, the city really needs stricter zoning standards to promote better aesthetics. You see a lot of this in Dallas (or at least parts of Dallas), which is one reason development down there is so much more visually appealing than in OKC.

Expand on this, what do you mean "in a climate like this"? And please give me some examples of where Dallas is doing it right, or better? (I am being genuine here.)

In a climate like this, the city really needs stricter zoning standards to promote better aesthetics. You see a lot of this in Dallas (or at least parts of Dallas), which is one reason development down there is so much more visually appealing than in OKC.

And yet, the Dallas Costco - in CENTRAL Dallas no less - is pretty much an identical structure to the one we are getting on Memorial Road.

And yet, the Dallas Costco - in CENTRAL Dallas no less - is pretty much an identical structure to the one we are getting on Memorial Road.

DINGDINGDING. We have a winner!

Geesh you guys are taking my comment way out of proportion and I wasn't one of the posters really complaining about it being ugly to begin with. It's a Costco and they all look relatively the same unless zoning requires otherwise. Since some people seem to get hung up on technicalities, maybe I should have said some development in Dallas is more visually appealing because there are areas down there where that is unmistakably the case. I'm talking more in a general sense though and not specifically about Costco.

Let's please refrain for mass characterizations of "this board", "this site", "people here".

It's always used as some sort of sweeping pejorative and it needs to stop.

Not picking on bchris because I already straight deleted several posts in this vein.

The Costco near me here in St. Louis is certainly not attractive. It’s not a metal building, though. It’s a beige stucco box, indistinguishable from all the big box stores that surround it in a very boring looking development. There are, at least, trees. And it’s on a hill. But no, not attractive.

At least Tulsa's is at the bottom of a hill, way below street level.

Let's please refrain for mass characterizations of "this board", "this site", "people here".

It's always used as some sort of sweeping pejorative and it needs to stop.

Not picking on bchris because I already straight deleted several posts in this vein.

I understand, respect, and agree with where you are coming from on this Pete, but I would like to add something, if I may. Honestly, I'm not even adding, I'm repeating something you've said in the past.

Hand in hand with refraining from the mass characterizations of "this board", "this site", or "people here", could you make another post officially addressing some of the negative posts? In the past you've noted that some business owners are participating members here and may get discouraged at some of the comments. In the OKC Boulevard thread there was just another post within the past few hours about how it's just another expanse of concrete. This is hardly an original thought, I would venture to say there's not a single page in that 31-page thread without at least one such or similar post. In this thread, one of the deleted messages pointed out the irony of YEARS of yearning for a Costco, only to complain once we finally get one, and the complaint completely, objectively untrue. In the SAME thread, we have (had) people complaining that our Costco is somehow deficient when compared to others, and yet in virtually the same breath decry the "cookie-cutter development".

I could go on, but my point is The Lost Ogle has a certain reputation. For good or bad, they've earned this reputation, and they're proud of it. If you take an objective view (difficult, I know, but try reading some of these posts as if through new eyes) then OKCTalk is also developing a certain reputation. The questions are have we earned it, and are we proud of it?

So again, I agree with the corrective action taken here. I respectfully suggest there's more to be done. Let's also refrain from the constant negative attitude about every possible thing we can find, and if we can't find one, just make one up. This is not to say people can't disagree, people can't wish the city would make a different choice in some matters from time to time, of course not. But the constant whining about often nothing is really wearing, and I believe if you look at the forum overall with fresh eyes, off-putting as well.

Any word on this? Doesn't look like they have purchased the land yet. I don't doubt that it is still a go, just would like to see some movement here. Anybody know anything?

Any word on this? Doesn't look like they have purchased the land yet. I don't doubt that it is still a go, just would like to see some movement here. Anybody know anything?

They had a couple of minor variances that needed to be approved.

I suspect the closing of the purchase was contingent on getting that finalized and I believe they now have everything they need.

They have already filed their building permits so they are working through that process which usually takes a few months.

Something I didn't know about Costco. I didn't realize you could buy things off the Costco site without having a membership. I went camping over the weekend and was impressed with a friends Tent and wanted one. They had the tent on Amazon for 140.00 but it was conventional set up model and Costco has the Quick pitch version of the same Tent for 99.99. So did some research and found I could buy it on the Costco site for a 5% upcharge not having a membership. So it still came out cheaper than Amazon after paying 4.99 upcharge and 4.99 shipping. I had no idea it was an option to pay 5% upcharge and shop the Costco site.