Pros: Size, outdoor area, location, great design for Dust Bowl concept and the inclusion of some retail space.

Cons: Way to clean/bright looking to be a Fassler Hall, building set back from the edge of the street for parking? WHY?!

Don't get me wrong, I am still really excited that these two concepts are coming to midtown OKC, but the Fassler Hall concept does not fit that design.

It's not. The parking faces Park Place, the alley. The building fronts 10th.

Pros: Size, outdoor area, location, great design for Dust Bowl concept and the inclusion of some retail space.

Cons: Way to clean/bright looking to be a Fassler Hall, building set back from the edge of the street for parking? WHY?!

Don't get me wrong, I am still really excited that these two concepts are coming to midtown OKC, but the Fassler Hall concept does not fit that design.

Dustbowl fronts tenth, the parking is on....park place. Got to put parking somewhere.

Dustbowl fronts tenth, the parking is on....park place. Got to put parking somewhere.

I think the confusion arose because the main photo on NewsOK showed the parking lot vantage point. I mistakenly drew the same conclusion until I clicked further.

I may be the only one, and I'm sure I'll get flack for this, but I was stoked about both concepts coming to OKC, but SERIOUSLY disappointed in the bland "Rand Elliot Classen Curve Part Deux" design by Fitzsimmons. I like Fitzsimmons but I think he's best left to residential design. What a site with HUGE potential and end up getting a very bland suburban design. Hopefully the Downtown Design Review Committee will spit it back. Worst case scenario it gets built as is and at least it's infill.

I may be the only one, and I'm sure I'll get flack for this, but I was stoked about both concepts coming to OKC, but SERIOUSLY disappointed in the bland "Rand Elliot Classen Curve Part Deux" design by Fitzsimmons. I like Fitzsimmons but I think he's best left to residential design. What a site with HUGE potential and end up getting a very bland suburban design. Hopefully the Downtown Design Review Committee will spit it back. Worst case scenario it gets built as is and at least it's infill.

This is essentially how I feel about it.

I may be the only one, and I'm sure I'll get flack for this, but I was stoked about both concepts coming to OKC, but SERIOUSLY disappointed in the bland "Rand Elliot Classen Curve Part Deux" design by Fitzsimmons. I like Fitzsimmons but I think he's best left to residential design. What a site with HUGE potential and end up getting a very bland suburban design. Hopefully the Downtown Design Review Committee will spit it back. Worst case scenario it gets built as is and at least it's infill.

I don't know how you can make that full conclusion based on a couple renderings online.

I may be the only one, and I'm sure I'll get flack for this, but I was stoked about both concepts coming to OKC, but SERIOUSLY disappointed in the bland "Rand Elliot Classen Curve Part Deux" design by Fitzsimmons. I like Fitzsimmons but I think he's best left to residential design. What a site with HUGE potential and end up getting a very bland suburban design. Hopefully the Downtown Design Review Committee will spit it back. Worst case scenario it gets built as is and at least it's infill.

I am beyond excited that we're getting these two establishments and I think they'll be terrific additions to OKC's bar scene!

That being said, I share your utter disappointment in this design. I really don't like what Fitzsimmons has produced - it looks like a cheap Whole Foods knockoff. It's even more disappointing when I think about what his group has been able to accomplish with the historic rehabs they take on and do such wonderful work with. Along with Fitzsimmons' hideous proposal for the garage along 10th St, this design was a total letdown.

So what exactly are people wanting from a 2-story development?

Will you be disappointed if this style of architecture is molded around the large development MR is going to build just to the east of this lot, because that's likely.

I don't really see the generic whole foods bit...if anything...this is a mix between 18th Street Studios and 1212 N. Walker. If that's generic whole foods, then why was there not an uproar against those particular projects? Seems like that Yellow material is similar to the green mesh found on those apts, which is very sleek.

Also, there's only so much you can do architecturally that is going to work with 100 foot bowling lanes (yes I know the actual lane is shorter than that). It's a stretched out facility and I think the architecture pays homage to that quite nicely.

I agree. As a resident of midtown I am quite happy with the design. The elevation of the front has a modern, clean look that is not that different from 1212 Walker, 420 lofts, etc. The back part facing the rear lot is pretty plain but then again thats why it faces the rear.

Good architecture should elicit strong opinions one way or another, but I am really puzzled by the brouhaha on here. If it was designed to look like a true German Style biergarten or the historical building that the original Fassler Hall is in, it would be called kitschy, fake, Disneyesque, blah blah blah. A little contrast in styles is good.

I agree. As a resident of midtown I am quite happy with the design. The elevation of the front has a modern, clean look that is not that different from 1212 Walker, 420 lofts, etc. The back part facing the rear lot is pretty plain but then again thats why it faces the rear.

Good architecture should elicit strong opinions one way or another, but I am really puzzled by the brouhaha on here. If it was designed to look like a true German Style biergarten or the historical building that the original Fassler Hall is in, it would be called kitschy, fake, Disneyesque, blah blah blah. A little contrast in styles is good.

I'm a bit confused as well. I really like the design. Besides, it's close to the street and appears as though is should interact decently with 10th St, which is what 75% of the people here get hung up on. No way the design committee doesn't approve this. I understand the backlash thrown at the springhill and staybridge suites, it was definitely warranted, but this is on a completely different level than those developements.

Yeah I don't see what the big deal is. These bars + the '80s bar going into uptown are exactly what the OKC nightlife scene has needed. The building design is a little different than I expected it to be but its not bad and fits well with the style of the new residential development going in. I could understand if the parking was in front of the building on 10th, but its not. Hopefully this gets approved and built.

Yeah I don't see what the big deal is. These bars + the '80s bar going into uptown are exactly what the OKC nightlife scene has needed. The building design is a little different than I expected it to be but its not bad and fits well with the style of the new residential development going in. I could understand if the parking was in front of the building on 10th, but its not. Hopefully this gets approved and built.

Not to mention the Fassler Hall garden looks really cool. Should be a lot nicer than the one up in Tulsa (though this seems to be more like their South Tulsa McNellie's concept than Fassler).

the '80s bar going into uptown .

que?

que?

Flashback RetroPub (https://www.facebook.com/pages/FlashBack-RetroPub/136534499740703)

Western/Classen Triangle crowd is Yuppie and has been for a while...don't think Hipsters ever really spent time there.

Definitely Plaza is the Hipster area, along with the Paseo.

Bricktown is a diverse crowd.

Older professionals (35+) don't tend to go to bars in this city...they go to restaurants with bars. Mahogany, Red Prime, Metro, Ludivine, Vast, etc.


Thats pretty much how I see it, I spend the vast majority of my time out in the Plaza and Paseo. Although there is definitely a young/hip outpost near western in the form of the HiLo and Drunken Fry (Speakeasy on the right nights). And I Still go to Western a lot (being right around the corner from Paseo) because I Still have to go to forward foods all the time, and VZ's, and Freemans (I mean, it's really kind of the best liquor store in town).
And I generally see Bricktown as suburbanites/people from Shawnee/People from the village or Bethany, lol, the weekend warrior crowd. Also, I'd agree that as I rapidly approach 35, I do spend a considerable amount of time drinking in fashionable restaurant bars (still quite friendly to the young/hip). I picture Midtown as the place where recent college grad / future oil company management mingles with the more liberal folks from Heritage Hills and Mesta Park. Can't wait to see where uptown 23rd ends up in this mix....

Yeah I don't see what the big deal is. These bars + the '80s bar going into uptown are exactly what the OKC nightlife scene has needed.

Nobody has a problem with the concept.

Thats pretty much how I see it, I spend the vast majority of my time out in the Plaza and Paseo. Although there is definitely a young/hip outpost near western in the form of the HiLo and Drunken Fry (Speakeasy on the right nights). And I Still go to Western a lot (being right around the corner from Paseo) because I Still have to go to forward foods all the time, and VZ's, and Freemans (I mean, it's really kind of the best liquor store in town).
And I generally see Bricktown as suburbanites/people from Shawnee/People from the village or Bethany, lol, the weekend warrior crowd. Also, I'd agree that as I rapidly approach 35, I do spend a considerable amount of time drinking in fashionable restaurant bars (still quite friendly to the young/hip). I picture Midtown as the place where recent college grad / future oil company management mingles with the more liberal folks from Heritage Hills and Mesta Park. Can't wait to see where uptown 23rd ends up in this mix....

Uptown I think has the chance to be the most diverse. Between Grandad's and a gimmick bar like RetroPub...plus the overwhelming popularity of places like Big Truck, Cuppies & Joe, and Cheever's amongst all types of people and then the location...I think it will get a little bit of everybody's attention at various points in time. A lot will depend on what happens with Tower Theater and what kind of development Land Run installs on the block behind the Rise.

I don't mind the front so much. It's different for the area, which I think is good. The worst thing they could do is try and copy the older buildings around it, imo. That never works out and you just get a Disney main street looking thing like Edmond strip malls. The back, though, is a little blah. It does look like a 50s school or office building, but I think the front could look cool, especially if the lighting is done well.

I don't mind the front so much. It's different for the area, which I think is good. The worst thing they could do is try and copy the older buildings around it, imo. That never works out and you just get a Disney main street looking thing like Edmond strip malls. The back, though, is a little blah. It does look like a 50s school or office building, but I think the front could look cool, especially if the lighting is done well.

I mean, I see what you your saying, but it isssssss the back. It could be better, but I don't think it's that bad especially with the garden.

Uptown I think has the chance to be the most diverse. Between Grandad's and a gimmick bar like RetroPub...plus the overwhelming popularity of places like Big Truck, Cuppies & Joe, and Cheever's amongst all types of people and then the location...I think it will get a little bit of everybody's attention at various points in time. A lot will depend on what happens with Tower Theater and what kind of development Land Run installs on the block behind the Rise.

Oh totally man, as an inner city resident I can definitely say I will patronize all of it from time to time. 23rd has, overwhelmingly IMHO, more potential than anywhere in the metro. This year seems to be the year that Mid Town finally reaches some form of critical mass and I See uptown immediately behind it. It's really quite exciting

Put me in the "not impressed by the design but excited for the concept" group. I think it looks more like a YMCA or a library than a bowling alley/beer garden.

In the article, it stated, "The building also will include 16,000 square feet of for-lease retail space." I assume that space will be fronting 10th street?

Oh totally man, as an inner city resident I can definitely say I will patronize all of it from time to time. 23rd has, overwhelmingly IMHO, more potential than anywhere in the metro. This year seems to be the year that Mid Town finally reaches some form of critical mass and I See uptown immediately behind it. It's really quite exciting

It does have a lot of potential. A few years ago I would have said it would by now be like what the Plaza district is. Then, the opposite happened and I didn't see that coming. 23rd will have to work though its fragmentation as some point, but I agree it still has some nice potential and enough existing structures that it could creatively solve some of the disconnect.


I mean, I see what you your saying, but it isssssss the back. It could be better, but I don't think it's that bad especially with the garden.

I agree. I just thought that the back matched the criticisms here more than the front. But, one thing to consider with this project is that, outside of St. Anthony and The Edge, it is one of the first major Mid-Town construction projects, especially in terms of retail and restaurant. So, precedent is being set.

They have submitted their application for design review, scheduled for Sept. 19th.

No renderings yet, but below is the summary.

39,331 sf. ft. is a pretty big structure!


**************

construct a two-story 39,331 sq ft structure with brick and concrete exterior containing two buildings partially connnected at roof; install plaza and landscaping between buildings one (west) and two (east); install asphalt parking lot with 14 spaces; install streetscape, landscaping, and irrigation at perimeter of parking lot; install brick wall along west boundary of parking lot; install bollards and brick mechanical/dumpster enclosure; install .... tall architectural metal fence and gates at east and west elevations; install brick planters with concrete seating benches at street frontage; install planters with landscaping along south facades; install area lighting within parking lot; install benches at entry to west building; install new concrete sidewalk along street frontage; install perforated metal panels at south elevation of building one (west building); install attached/painted letters and logo sign...... sq ft on brick at north facade(a); install .... sq ft exterior illuminated attached metal letter sign to brick at north facade (b); install .....sq ft attached illuminated sign on lower plaza entry way at south facade (c); install ..... sq ft illuminated painted attached sign on brick at west facade (d);

the have added to the details of this project

Case Item Summary: construct a two-story 39,331 sq ft structure with brick, glass, and concrete exterior encompassing two buildings connected by a common roof; Building – One, west (421 NW 10th St): construct two-story structure with exterior cladding of brick, glass, and concrete; construct covered outdoor terrace at second level of south elevation; install perforated metal graphic panels over storefront south elevation; Building – Two, east (420 W Park Place:) construct two-story structure with concrete, glass, and glazed masonry exterior cladding; install perforated metal graphic panel in brick facade at south elevation of east building (Building Two) – 420 W Park Pl; Courtyard: construct common courtyard and stair plaza; install an asphalt surface parking lot for 29 spaces; install sidewalk along NW 10th St; install sidewalk along street frontage at W Park Pl; install 11 sq ft externally illuminated attached metal letter sign (Sign # A) to brick accent wall/planter at north façade of west building (Building Two) – 420 W Park Pl; install 154 sq ft painted letters and logo sign (Sign # B) on brick at north façade of east building (Building One) – 421 NW 10th St; install 150 sq ft externally illuminated painted attached sign (Sign # C) on brick at west façade of west building (Building One); install 225 sq ft attached externally illuminated sign (Sign # D) applied to storefront at street level of west building (Building One); install area lighting within parking lot; install landscaping around perimeter of new parking lot; install landscaping within Streetscape Zones; reinstall existing and install new Street Trees along NW 10th St and Park Pl frontages; install brick planters with concrete seating benches at street frontage; install planters with landscaping along south facades; install benches at entry to west building; install irrigation; install brick screening wall along west boundary of parking lot; install brick mechanical/dumpster enclosure and bollards; install 7’ tall architectural metal fence and gates at east and west elevations; provide a recommendation to the Board of Adjustment for variances to the minimum height and front-yard setback/build-to line requirements.

It does have a lot of potential. A few years ago I would have said it would by now be like what the Plaza district is. Then, the opposite happened and I didn't see that coming. 23rd will have to work though its fragmentation as some point, but I agree it still has some nice potential and enough existing structures that it could creatively solve some of the disconnect.



I agree. I just thought that the back matched the criticisms here more than the front. But, one thing to consider with this project is that, outside of St. Anthony and The Edge, it is one of the first major Mid-Town construction projects, especially in terms of retail and restaurant. So, precedent is being set.

True, maybe they'll spruce the back up a little.

Latest renderings. Will post more details soon.

Of note: Dust Bowl will be on first level of west building and Fassler Hall the second level.

The east building is spec space for office/restaurant/retail.




http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fassler1a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fassler1.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fassler2.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fassler3.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fassler4.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fassler5.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fassler6.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fassler7.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fassler8.jpg

Much better but I can't put my finger on why I'm not a fan of all the brick on the north side.....I think for some reason it reminds me of Cate Center at OU.

FH/DB to break ground early October with a late summer/early fall 2014 opening, if McNellie's staff is to be believed. There is a good precedent for this: a FH bartender confirmed to me many months ago (before reported here) that both FH and DB were slated for OKC Midtown, so apparently they keep employees relatively in-the-loop.

Dust Bowl will be on first level of east building and Fassler Hall the second level.

The west building is spec space for office/restaurant/retail.


The plans look like it is Dust Bowl/Fassler Hall on west, Spec on east. Am I reading the wrong?

Really freaking cool. I didn't have a problem with the old design but this is much more awesome.

I'm so used to walking by that empty lot, it's going to be awesome when there is actually something there. I wonder if this will spur Brown's to do some updating of their own now?

This appears to be a big improvement.

The plans look like it is Dust Bowl/Fassler Hall on west, Spec on east. Am I reading the wrong?jj

You're right -- I corrected my post.

The plans look like it is Dust Bowl/Fassler Hall on west, Spec on east. Am I reading the wrong?

I've noticed Pete frequently gets his Wests and Easts mixed up ;)

That's okay though, because he posts more information than I think any of us really fathom and an occasional mistake is to be expected.

More:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fassler10.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fassler11.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fassler12.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fassler13.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fassler14.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fassler15.jpg

Flipping amazing!

Love how the beer garden is partially covered and partially open above.


This is going to be a complete game-changer for Midtown and OKC nightlife in general, especially when combined with McNellies, the Osler roof-top bar and everything else already in Midtown.


Midtown will soon be one of the coolest urban districts in all of the central part of the U.S.

Much better but I can't put my finger on why I'm not a fan of all the brick on the north side.....I think for some reason it reminds me of Cate Center at OU.

I think maybe it's the color in the rendering? If it were Plaza Court red or Osler blonde, it might fit a bit better. Other than that, I think it's a pretty cool design that will add a new element to the area instead of trying to just riff on the historic properties, which is hard to do well.

Really hope they use rock in the biergarten instead of cement for the flooring.

The facades are a hot mess. I'm not a fan. Other than that, I'm cool with it.

i think it looks great and will be a great fit for the area

Do they sell shirts? I'd sport their logo any day. Way better than the Express lion!

Don't want to turn this into yet another OKC/Tulsa pissing contest but it should be noted that both the OKC versions will be substantially bigger than their counterparts up the turnpike.

It is interesting that they chose to make the structure out precast double tees.

I'm sure what they are trying to accomplish is a tie-in with the abundance of mid-century architecture in the area.

I think the entire thing looks fantastic, including the facades.

I'm sure what they are trying to accomplish is a tie-in with the abundance of mid-century architecture in the area.

I think the entire thing looks fantastic, including the facades.

I agree, Pete. I was a skeptic at first but now I'm liking it.

I dig it, and I don't think the north facade will be of high import.

This is gonna be really cool.

I dig it, and I don't think the north facade will be of high import.

Especially since there is likely to be a large parking structure immediately north of this building.

Lot where FH/DB will go:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVqpVutCcAA4qe0.jpg:large

Source: https://twitter.com/dtOKCbuilds/status/385806909032263680/photo/1

Well, that's one big section of emptiness in Midtown about to be filled up.

$5.6 million building permit issued for this project.

Address will be 421 NW 10th.

Site prep work appears to have started on this project.

4837
On Park Place looking south. From Downtown Development Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/dtOKCbuilds/status/392825986888519680/photo/1

This is from today, courtesy of Metro:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fassler102313.jpg

Had lunch at Fassler Hall in Tulsa today for the first time - I am looking forward to this place opening. It will probably become my favorite place to go in Midtown. I liked the bratwurst a lot and the duck fries were interesting.

View from the top today (dirt work is Fassler Hall / Dust Bowl):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BX3MFgLCQAAH5n_.jpg:large

Hmmm... let's see if we can overlay the rendering on that image:

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/p9hzqrmnfz0k1gf/fassler_overlay.jpg

Oops -- the perspective is not right, especially on the right hand side. Oh well, still gives a rough idea.

Now, imagine those other green spaces being built out! Great job BTW P!

Very cool!

That green lot in the foreground will almost certainly become a parking garage in the near future.

New rendering of this project from the Fitzsimmons FB page (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fitzsimmons-Architects) :

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/5455d1387291259-fassler-hall-dust-bowl-fasslernew.jpg

You know, I won't say I dislike it but it doesn't have any Wow factor either. I don't expect every new development to Wow though.

I think it will be more impressive when it is built. It just gives that kind appeal in the rendering.