Not to be a damp rag on this, but this is all conceptual work and far from an a project that is actually happening. Especially the Cox block....the city isn't going to let that go. it's too valuable to keep the side-by-side arena plan going to let go of that property.

I'll get excited when I see cranes doing stuff.

Not to be a damp rag on this, but this is all conceptual work and far from an a project that is actually happening. Especially the Cox block....the city isn't going to let that go. it's too valuable to keep the side-by-side arena plan going to let go of that property.

I'll get excited when I see cranes doing stuff.

But when was the last time we have used the side by side arena plan? 2009 was the last time OKC hosting the Big 12 basketball tournament when the women's was played in the Cox and the Men's was played in the Ford Center.

Not to be a damp rag on this, but this is all conceptual work and far from an a project that is actually happening. Especially the Cox block....the city isn't going to let that go. it's too valuable to keep the side-by-side arena plan going to let go of that property.

I'll get excited when I see cranes doing stuff.

I see what you are saying. I am cautiously optimistic. I will be a lot more optimistic once there are real renderings and not simply conceptual drawings. Hopefully the Clayco project gets officially announced soon. Personally I would love to see the Cox site developed into a mixed-use village with a canal running through it.

Not to be a damp rag on this, but this is all conceptual work and far from an a project that is actually happening. Especially the Cox block....the city isn't going to let that go. it's too valuable to keep the side-by-side arena plan going to let go of that property.

I'll get excited when I see cranes doing stuff.

If the city paid populous to create these renderings for the area around the new convention center, which include a redeveloped cox block, don't you think they are open redeveloping it? If not, why didn't they specify that they wouldn't want the ccc removed?

I don't think the city is going to be the Cox block to this development that you think they are.

The side by side arena thing is hugely overrated. The Cox Center land is vastly more valuable than the benefit we get from hosting the Big 12 basketball tournament every once in a while. Don't even bring up minor league sports, they're inconsequential.

Of course, this is still just a nice picture, and as was said, most of this is very far away and is just speculative.

Double post

The whole point of the study was to provide ideas and a guideline for future development.

Since the City itself owns the Cox Center, the fact that site was given so much attention gives you a pretty clear indication that it will be redeveloped sooner rather than later.

And well it should. That concrete monolith has 30 foot blank walls on four sides, covers a full block and will be even more of an obstruction when the Transit Hub is complete. It is arguably the best located property in all of OKC.


The biggest issue with it now is that it provides much-needed parking. Once there are some other parking alternatives that would allow for a 2-3 year redevelopment plan, you can bet that building will come down.

I don't understand what the apology from Steve is about?

Was he not supposed to post the renderings per Clayco's unveiling in October? Or was he not supposed to post them, because they are pure speculative?


So much information is coming out so quickly surrounding the entire MBG site, that surely I can't be the only one having a tough time following?

I think the stair step configuration confirms what I suggested in this discussion long ago; there is indeed some concern about leaving MBG in shadow. The tapering to the south would allow for more hours of sunshine in fall and winter.

I agree. I would much prefer low-rise construction (up to say, 8 stories) flanking the MG park. Otherwise it's going to be a dark place.

If the city paid populous to create these renderings for the area around the new convention center, which include a redeveloped cox block, don't you think they are open redeveloping it? If not, why didn't they specify that they wouldn't want the ccc removed?

I don't think the city is going to be the Cox block to this development that you think they are.

:D I see what you did there.

If the city paid populous to create these renderings for the area around the new convention center, which include a redeveloped cox block, don't you think they are open redeveloping it? If not, why didn't they specify that they wouldn't want the ccc removed?

I don't think the city is going to be the Cox block to this development that you think they are.

Post of the Month. Brilliantly done sir…Brilliant.

The whole point of the study was to provide ideas and a guideline for future development.

Since the City itself owns the Cox Center, the fact that site was given so much attention gives you a pretty clear indication that it will be redeveloped sooner rather than later.

And well it should. That concrete monolith has 30 foot blank walls on four sides, covers a full block and will be even more of an obstruction when the Transit Hub is complete. It is arguably the best located property in all of OKC.


The biggest issue with it now is that it provides much-needed parking. Once there are some other parking alternatives that would allow for a 2-3 year redevelopment plan, you can bet that building will come down.

Would it be possible to continue using the underground parking while the demolition of the Cox Center and subsequent rebuilding were going on? If they could use even part of it, that would help the parking situation. Plus, it looks like the parking plan diagram showed below ground parking to still be there even after the potential new construction.

Would it be possible to continue using the underground parking while the demolition of the Cox Center and subsequent rebuilding were going on? If they could use even part of it, that would help the parking situation. Plus, it looks like the parking plan diagram showed below ground parking to still be there even after the potential new construction.

I don't think so.

But, by that time, there should be much more parking around the new convention center.

These graphics show the immense missed opportunity to connect the MBG and the Central Park.

This.

There is no reason why just a little bit of this concentrated development can't be pushed out further. The convention center doesn't have to block the park. If you move the hotel to a different site, then there is room for a convention center that blends and connects the two parks.

Also why is the massing staggered (and unorganized) as a principle? While these aren't renderings, it does recommend this approach as a principle with the high rises.

As per Steve:

Architectural firm, developer and builder selected for tower that will be headquarters for OGE Energy Corp. | News OK (http://newsok.com/architectural-firm-developer-and-builder-selected-for-tower-that-will-be-headquarters-for-oge-energy-corp./article/5343956)


Robert A.M. Stern Architects, the New York City firm that designed the 57-story Comcast Center in Philadelphia and the George W. Bush Presidential Center in Dallas, will design the new OGE Energy Corp. headquarters in Oklahoma City.
Rainey Williams, president of Kestrel Investments, also announced the OGE Energy headquarters will be developed and built by Clayco, a Chicago firm initially hired as a consultant earlier this year.


Plans will be submitted next month and this is of particular interest.


From the beginning Pete (Delaney) and I as we looked at the vocabulary of architecture around the country, we leaned away from the ultra-modern buildings. They (Stern) spoke to the language of the timeless classic kind of architecture we were seeking.”

This suggests that the final design will be nothing like the original depiction.

I don't really have a problem with the original design per se. I just wish the main tower of it would have been more encompassing of the base building, and it was at least a good 20 stories taller. But something of classic design would have the potential to be cool as long as it isn't a box.

I good 20 stories taller than what? Has a final floor count/height been made public? It's pretty apparent the original design was merely a placeholder.

Glad to hear some big boys are involved.

Interesting timing on the architect announcement; within a week of the building being completely scraped, although they clearly were selected some time ago since design plans are to be submitted soon.

Still unclear on the roles on the various players in all this. What is Willaims' role if Clayco is the developer? Is he merely flipping the land to them? Does OG&E now have an ownership interest in the development? What about the rest of the block (at least two other parcels were identified for development)?

We may never gave complete answers on the old Stage Center site but the parcel to the south is subject to a public process with total transparency.

Looking at RAMSA's portfolio, their office tower designs are not that impressive, and they only have a few at that. Comcast Center is by far their best office design. I still have my doubts about this project being 'word class'.

I good 20 stories taller than what? Has a final floor count/height been made public? It's pretty apparent the original design was merely a placeholder.

The original speculation of around 14 stories give or take a few. That is what is shown in the conceptual rendering released last year.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stagecenterwiki1.jpg

Thankfully, it looks like with Clayco's involvement the project could end up much more impressive than originally expected.

Yes, I'm aware of the original rendering. It has been discussed ad nauseam in this thread. I'm just puzzled about why we're still obsessing on it - or even using it as much of a point of reference - in light of this new information.

Sterns does a lot of residential high rise, too.

This is an international firm. Good sign.

Sterns does a lot of residential high rise, too.

This is an international firm. Good sign.

Right, and people need to keep in mind that there may be much more to this development than just the OG&E building.

Yes, I'm aware of the original rendering. It has been discussed ad nauseam in this thread. I'm just puzzled about why we're still obsessing on it - or even using it as much of a point of reference - in light of this new information.

Because it's the only thing we've seen so far. Saying "it should be 20 stories taller" is pretty clear, because everybody knows he's referring to the original rendering. Even if that picture has nothing at all to do with the final design, it was crystal clear he was referring to it. No ambiguity in his statement.

So let me get this straight, the designer of the OG&E tower will be the same firm that designed this?

http://www.aviewoncities.com/img/philadelphia/kveus6036s.jpg (http://www.aviewoncities.com/gallery/showpicture.htm?key=kveus6036)

Works for me. Even with the "we leaned away from the ultra-modern buildings" comment that suggests we won't get Comcast Center v2, they clearly know what they are doing.

I've heard from good sources that Pickard Chilton has signed on for the Main & Hudson Tower, and most of their buildings are modern glass structures that are variations of what they did at Devon Tower.

So, we'll almost certainly see another glass tower just two blocks north, with Devon right across the street.

Might be nice to have a different approach here, especially since it's not likely to be in the 15 to 25 story category.

Might be nice to have a different approach here, especially since it's not likely to be in the 15 to 25 story category.

You referring to the OG&E tower or the Main/Hudson tower? And by this, do you mean shorter than 15 stories or taller than 25?

You referring to the OG&E tower or the Main/Hudson tower? And by this, do you mean shorter than 15 stories or taller than 25?

OG&E.

15 to 25, as in somewhere in between.

Because it's the only thing we've seen so far. Saying "it should be 20 stories taller" is pretty clear, because everybody knows he's referring to the original rendering. Even if that picture has nothing at all to do with the final design, it was crystal clear he was referring to it. No ambiguity in his statement.

But those are not the words he used. He said "...I just wish the main tower of it would have been more encompassing of the base building, and it was at least a good 20 stories taller..." as if the train had somehow left the station or the original rendering were somehow still relevant, which apparently is no longer the case.

This firm does a lot of work for Disney and the U of Virginia and has designed some striking and classic buildings. They don't appear to specialize in modern, like a Frank Gehry, but their aesthetics will work beautifully in OKC. Based on the portfolio on their website, their work in residential towers seem to be a strength.

I don't know, I was hoping to see a ultra-modern glass tower, seems to be the trend, and would compliment Devon. But I will reserve my judgment until I see final design.

Glass towers are certainly the current trend, although I prefer ones like the Beekman Tower in Manhattan or the Aqua tower in Chicago that have elements to the skin instead of just a glass sheath. I'm just glad the developers are putting thought and effort in the project, and Robert A.M. Stern certainly has the depth of talent to create a strong statement. I love modern, but I also appreciate a building that looks strong and stately and classic with interesting elements. Many of the new glass towers look a bit faddish to me. When it comes to design, I prefer the Chrysler building over the new Freedom Tower.

In case anyone else is curious, here is the website and online portfolio of this new player: Robert A.M. Stern Architects (http://www.ramsa.com/en/index.html)

This is one of Stern's buildings in Boston and seems to be about the same size and scale of the OG&E project:

http://www.ramsa.com/images/content/9/8/9843.jpg

This is one of Stern's buildings in Boston and seems to be about the same size and scale of the OG&E project:

http://www.ramsa.com/images/content/9/8/9843.jpg

Pete, but it isn't 50 stories. This is complete crap.

In all seriousness, though, if we got a building with the architectural detail of that building, it would be a tremendous step forward for OKC. Size isnt everything.

By more encompassing of the base I meant taking up a bigger part of the base building. And by at least 20 stories taller, at least 30 plus stories. I know it was a rendering but still

Pete, but it isn't 50 stories. This is complete crap.

In all seriousness, though, if we got a building with the architectural detail of that building, it would be a tremendous step forward for OKC. Size isnt everything.

Plus, we could really use some red in the skyline!!!

Plus, we could really use some red in the skyline!!!

Boomer!

Wait, wrong thread.

This is one of Stern's buildings in Boston and seems to be about the same size and scale of the OG&E project:

http://www.ramsa.com/images/content/9/8/9843.jpgThat's cool, but it would be better in Midtown or C2S. If it is a taller version, then yes. But I think it should be much taller than this.

Works for me. Even with the "we leaned away from the ultra-modern buildings" comment that suggests we won't get Comcast Center v2, they clearly know what they are doing.

Yeah, I think they pretty much figured out we don't want anything pushing the envelope or being too "out there". Something more familiar will be much more welcomed.

That's cool, but it would be better in Midtown or C2S. If it is a taller version, then yes. But I think it should be much taller than this.

That is actually taller and more massive than it looks in the photo.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=222+Berkeley+St,+Boston,+MA+02116&ll=42.350631,-71.072059&spn=0.003061,0.005423&hnear=222+Berkeley+St,+Boston,+Massachusetts+02116&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=42.350298,-71.072589&panoid=E_85ywvylnGrS4gu2AQtQA&cbp=12,334.85,,0,-35.43

Something like that would indeed be a huge step forward for the OKC skyline. Thanks to the boom/bust cycle there are noticeable generations of architecture styles missing from the skyline and something like this would really help bridge the gap. Plus a lot of people complain about OKC's lack of originality or character and building something like this would help that as well. Personally I hope it ends up like this rather than a simple glass box.

I count about 20 stories. Something 30 or over would be better.

If OG&E needs 300,000 sqft, doesn't that indicate about 20 stories just to fulfill their capacity, then add a base and a few floors to lease until OG&E expands into them, and you have 25 easy. Assume they want capacity for other tenants beyond that and you have 30.

Obviously depends on the footprint of the building, but few buildings are as large as Devon.

I really like this project of theirs and hope for something similar

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l16/wsucougz/brompton.jpg (http://s92.photobucket.com/user/wsucougz/media/brompton.jpg.html)

Yep, that's a nice residential tower and I do hope we get designs like that.

It's official from RAMSA - Same info but from their site news -

Robert A.M. Stern Architects - News (http://www.ramsa.com/en/news/index.html)

Ground breaking early next year means the October date going around is very likely to see some firm renderings. They are well underway on architecture design right now. To have detailed building construction plans ready to go by early next year takes longer than 4 months.

Wow! Robert A. M. Stern is one of my favorite architects, and a skyscraper of his that is currently being built is of my favorite ongoing projects, the 937 foot tall 30 Park Place in New York. Stern is well-known for his New Classical Architecture. How exciting!

That is actually taller and more massive than it looks in the photo.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=222+Berkeley+St,+Boston,+MA+02116&ll=42.350631,-71.072059&spn=0.003061,0.005423&hnear=222+Berkeley+St,+Boston,+Massachusetts+02116&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=42.350298,-71.072589&panoid=E_85ywvylnGrS4gu2AQtQA&cbp=12,334.85,,0,-35.43

Something like that would indeed be a huge step forward for the OKC skyline. Thanks to the boom/bust cycle there are noticeable generations of architecture styles missing from the skyline and something like this would really help bridge the gap. Plus a lot of people complain about OKC's lack of originality or character and building something like this would help that as well. Personally I hope it ends up like this rather than a simple glass box.

Not sure that would bridge any gaps we have or add much in the way of originality. It's a nice building for sure, but it's not really anything original or uncommon. It actually looks kind of like the Braniff building before it's redux. I think it would be widely accepted here, but, while not the goal of every development, it wouldn't be much of a head turner for anyone who travels a lot.

Clayco lands work on $100 million Oklahoma City development - St. Louis Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news/2014/09/24/clayco-lands-work-on-100-million-oklahoma-city.html)

Thanks for posting that.

How tall and nice of a building will 100 million get us? I sure hope for 28-30 floors and approximately 500 feet. Anything else would be bonus and balance the sky line more. Anything less would be disappointing to a point but not a bad news. I just want OKC to go better than expected more often than they do when things usually get scaled down or done on the cheap far more than some of the cities we all look up to. I hope this project knocks it out of the park like the Devon!

How tall and nice of a building will 100 million get us? I sure hope for 28-30 floors and approximately 500 feet. Anything else would be bonus and balance the sky line more. Anything less would be disappointing to a point but not a bad news. I just want OKC to go better than expected more often than they do when things usually get scaled down or done on the cheap far more than some of the cities we all look up to. I hope this project knocks it out of the park like the Devon!

$100 million has always been the number used for the entire block, including the parking.

I still expect it to be around 20 stories; slightly taller than first proposed but not significantly so.

We should see their plans when Clayco submits their proposal to the RFP on the parcel to the south; it's due on Oct. 6th and at that time will be in the public domain.

I'm sure Steve will be all over this but I'll also ask OCURA to forward the full package on that date.

OG&E will take 300,000 sq ft. so how many stories will that account for? Because we know there will be more to it than the 300,000 ft. OG&E will use.

OG&E will take 300,000 sq ft. so how many stories will that account for? Because we know there will be more to it than the 300,000 ft. OG&E will use.

All depends on the footprint of the structure......

I still find 100 million for the entire block kind of depressing when the Devon complex cost 7 times that amount.

Well, I could be wrong, but I think that is the old number. Much has changed since this figure has been released, am I right?

I still find 100 million for the entire block kind of depressing when the Devon complex cost 7 times that amount.

I kind of have a feeling that this is a generic number thrown around for OG&E's sake, public utility and all. I would imagine it'll be much higher when said and done.

:ot:

Devon Energy initially stated that they would build something in the neighborhood of 37 stories.

Their first draft was a 54 story 925 ft., building which they scaled back to 50 stories 844 ft., when they decided to move the (I believe) call center to the airport. Now they could have used those extra four stories. Devon could have used a 60 story 1,000 ft., building.

Devon should look to the future. They should start with a second 30 story tower with the same façade as the first.

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608049141852343043&pid=15.1&P=0

Who knows? OG&E just might have plans to build a structure towering 25 stories.

Who knows? OG&E just might have plans to build a structure towering 25 stories.

Which would be great in leveling out (that's not the right phrase, it's just not coming to me now !?!?) our skyline.