Yeah this entire thing smells bad and the more we learn about it the more underwhelming it seems like this development will be. Hopefully the other tower that is supposedly in the works is announced around the same time as we see renderings for the Stage Center Tower to somewhat lessen the sting if it really is bad.

What exactly have we learned since the preliminary concept that makes it more underwhelming?

I would have said the most recent news of who is doing the design made it less underwhelming.

^

Clayco is doing design / build on this project.

So, they are serving as both architect and construction manager which will be different than what Devon did in using separate firms (Pickard Chilton & Hines) for those two tasks.

I'm very familiar with them. They are developing a large downtown student housing project in Cleveland right now. Very savvy investors.

Spartan, do you have any more specific details you can share with us about that Cleveland project? I looked through their online portfolio for a bit just now and couldn't find anything that seemed to match up.

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^^ try cleveland.com there's some nice pics of what he's talking about

OOPS now I lost the pic!! If you google 1750 Euclid Student Housing you can see the pics though

Thanks, I found a few images of it. Here is the article (http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2014/01/improvements_to_student_housin.html) I found that seems to have the most recent design.

I go to design review meetings and Landmarks Commission every week for my job, and these guys were surprisingly conciliatory and receptive to design review advice. Their project has kind of flown under the radar because it's fairly small, but it got a lot of media attention when they were seeking a demo permit for the Edward Durell Stone-designed Jewish Community Federation bldg.

I hate that building, but some Clevelanders were fond of it.

Yikes: Developer of Stage Center site prepares for demolition | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/4884505)

eh, nothing new, just regurgitated information. Still waiting on official renderings, looks like nothing will change, simple mid-rise going up in the heart of downtown.

Hmm... I thought even Steve was getting shaky on this one in chats? Regardless of how any of us feel about stage center itself, I think we can all agree demolition and then no further action, leaving us with a gaping hole or surface lot, is the worst possible outcome. I sure hope the tower (regardless of how bad it might be) has firmed up from the perceived (perhaps only by me) shakiness...

Destroying a historic architecturally significant buidling before we even see the final plans for OG&E. How backwards does that sound?

For the record, my opinion is more or less me puking in my mouth. It has been a reality for many years so no surprise here.

Williams presented conceptual building site plans as part of the review. Williams hired Chicago-based Clayco to assist in planning. Clayco, founded in 1984, employs 1,000 people and reports it is currently working on, or has completed, major projects in 43 states and three countries.

“We are currently working to hire an architect, who will develop the site and building plans,” Williams said. “At this time, nothing has changed. We are working with Clayco as a consultant for predevelopment services and expect to announce the major contractors as they are hired.”

This makes it sound like Clayco might not be the final architect or contractor.

Or, it make just be a smokescreen.

I had family/relatives in from NYC and MSP. We were all downtown at the Myriad Gardens, I was showing them around. Each one of my family members asked about the Stage Center, . More questions and comments about the SC than were about Devon. Mostly said "what is that?", and "That is an interesting building" , they snapped a few pictures of the building too. I had to tell them that it will soon be demolished, and they all said that is "disappointing, because it is unique".
Anyway they all absolutely "LOVED" OKC, Midtown, Dowtown, Deep Deuce, Auto Alley, Okc Zoo. We didn't even make it to Bricktown. That is one of the only times that I have had friends or relatives in from out of state and I didn't go to Bricktown. By the end of the trip half of the group was having conversations about relocating to Okc!

My sister, who has lived in NYC for 15 years (manhatten, then brooklyn, works in manhatten), recently visited again and is "this close" to deciding to move here for a couple years after grad school as she really likes the vibe.

^^ I was very surprised by my family members, because they are not easily impressed. Plus they are quite liberal in their lifestyle and political beliefs. I caught them on their smartphone looking at Zillow checking out the real estate in the downtown areas.

Anyway Stage Center made an impression on them, although I told them it won't be here next time they visit. I really hope that the new building that is built there pays some kind of homage to the SC, maybe they will put up a commemorative plaque somewhere, lol.

Destroying a historic architecturally significant buidling before we even see the final plans for OG&E. How backwards does that sound?

Yep, pretty damn dumb to let this happen like this.

Also, this smoke and mirrors with what this will actually look like and who's working on it is quite upsetting.

This has gone worse than I ever imagined it would.

^^ I was very surprised by my family members, because they are not easily impressed. Plus they are quite liberal in their lifestyle and political beliefs. I caught them on their smartphone looking at Zillow checking out the real estate in the downtown areas.

Anyway Stage Center made an impression on them, although I told them it won't be here next time they visit. I really hope that the new building that is built there pays some kind of homage to the SC, maybe they will put up a commemorative plaque somewhere, lol.


My sister, who has lived in NYC for 15 years (manhatten, then brooklyn, works in manhatten), recently visited again and is "this close" to deciding to move here for a couple years after grad school as she really likes the vibe.

My sister as well was giving serious consideration in relocating to OKC at one point before getting her new job. I will say that every person I've entertained from out of state, including NY, CA, TX, and IL, has had very good things to say and were all surprised at the city's offerings. Of course I would always take them to downtown, midtown, Deep Deuce, Heritage Hills etc. first before we did anything in the outlying areas.

Anyway, back to your regulary scheduled programming....

Yikes: Developer of Stage Center site prepares for demolition | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/4884505)

I just said "looks like they're getting ready to tear down Stage Center", here at work and our lead technician said "no big loss". That's from a Central Oklahoma Lifer that has never perused this forum.

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This makes it sound like Clayco might not be the final architect or contractor.

Or, it make just be a smokescreen.

I found that to be an interesting comment. I'm betting it was a smoke screen. Groups like Clayco don't usually get involved on something like this just to do a study or some minor consulting. I could possibly seem them adding a design architect to their team in addition to their in-house staff. It may also have been a strategic comment from the developer to leverage fee negotiations.

I can't even read this thread. It's all too upsetting.

I can't even read this thread. It's all too upsetting.

I understand. I really understand.

The sad thing about this development is not the loss of the Stage Center, nor that the office tower will only be 16 stories, its sad that OG&E did not have a grander vision for probably the most prime piece of real estate in OKC. Where is the corporate social responsibility? Nothing on Rainey Williams, he is just doing what he is told...

OG&E has to keep a low-ish profile lest the public raise hell when they ask for rate hikes.

I'm very sure it's the only reason Rainey Williams is involved at all; that and deflecting the demolition controversy.

+1 Betts

OG&E has to keep a low-ish profile lest the public raise hell when they ask for rate hikes.

I'm very sure it's the only reason Rainey Williams is involved at all; that and deflecting the demolition controversy.

Yeah, but there are cheaper pieces of land they could have purchased downtown and avoided any controversy. This whole thing has been a cluster the way OG&E handled it. They could have bought the ginormous parking lot at the corner of Main and Dewey for much cheaper. Something like a 16 story tower there would be amazing. OG&E should know their limits.

They were looking at lower-profile locations but then Stage Center went out for proposal and I suppose it was too much for them to resist.

And especially given the media coverage, the average reader of the Oklahoman will be sufficiently distracted by the ruse.

Destroying a historic architecturally significant buidling before we even see the final plans for OG&E. How backwards does that sound?

It's actually infuriating.

The sad thing about this development is not the loss of the Stage Center, nor that the office tower will only be 16 stories, its sad that OG&E did not have a grander vision for probably the most prime piece of real estate in OKC. Where is the corporate social responsibility? Nothing on Rainey Williams, he is just doing what he is told...

Why not? He promised a "world class" development. Nothing about this is world class. He's been selling snake oil.

Yeah, but there are cheaper pieces of land they could have purchased downtown and avoided any controversy. This whole thing has been a cluster the way OG&E handled it. They could have bought the ginormous parking lot at the corner of Main and Dewey for much cheaper. Something like a 16 story tower there would be amazing. OG&E should know their limits.

Between this and promoting that tax on solar panels, OG&E is on my ---t list. Too bad they're a protected monopoly.

Wow, almost a year since he announced new tower for this location, and still hasn't secured architect? This guy is a joke, takes several months for good design work to be completed, we probably won't see anything definite until the Fall.

I think they are using Clayco as their architects but don't want to be pinned down for some reason.

I'm sure the only reason their name even came up in the interview is that we found out about their involvement a while ago.


Why would they use ADG for conceptual plans, Clacyo as a "consultant", then hire someone completely different to be architects and contractors? It's not like they are facing some unique A&E issues. This looks to be a very straight-forward project on a flat, square parcel.

I think I hear the Benny Hill theme playing.

I still think it's 50/50 they demolish stage center, leave nice clear lot, then flip the property for a good profit when plans "go south"

Well, I've always believed Rainey would flip to to OGE themselves, but I presumed it would be after it was built. Maybe it will be before.

I still think it's 50/50 they demolish stage center, leave nice clear lot, then flip the property for a good profit when plans "go south"

I don't think this will happen, but the conspiracy theorist in me is starting to feel like this is an elaborate ruse to demolish the SC.

Well, I've always believed Rainey would flip to to OGE themselves, but I presumed it would be after it was built. Maybe it will be before.

You can almost count on ownership being silently transferred between shadowy LLC's at some point.

>Rainey buys SC
>Demolish SC
>People upset
>Land sits vacant as parking for a small time period
>Land is for sale
>Real buyer comes in
>New buyer looks like hero
>Legit tower built

^^^^^yes, let's hope for that scenario.

Since it is coming down, I'll be glad once it does.
Some of y'all need a new hobby. :)

I think they are using Clayco as their architects but don't want to be pinned down for some reason.

I'm sure the only reason their name even came up in the interview is that we found out about their involvement a while ago.


Why would they use ADG for conceptual plans, Clacyo as a "consultant", then hire someone completely different to be architects and contractors? It's not like they are facing some unique A&E issues. This looks to be a very straight-forward project on a flat, square parcel.

Good question. I would be surprised of they did hire someone else other than Clayco, unless, they get sideways with them, which I doubt. There could be many scenarios. Rainey may have brought ADG on board to do the conceptual rendering leading up to the demo being approved, and that was the extent of their agreement. ADG does not have a portfolio of doing this kind of project, so it may have been Rainey and his sphere of influencers sought out someone who did once it was approved to move forward. A firm like ADG is capable of doing a mid-rise, but in todays world, clients want you have to have an expert on board, that's why most firms have to team when doing even pretty straight forward jobs like high schools and police stations. ADG could also end up being a local partner to Clayco, but I doubt it.

I am thinking the same thing as anonymous, I'm trying my best to see this in a half full prospective. ...

Perhaps the 'design' that Clayco submitted for a 16-storey 'tower' on top of a huge monolithic garage podium didn't make the cut (even though it was released to the public). Perhaps better minds at OGE want better and therefore a new architect is being sought. RW said they wanted world class, clearly the Clayco submittal was NOT and there must have been some sort of backlash and a 'request' to start from scratch. This is the ONLY way I could even remotely have hope for this situation that has otherwise been handled like the shady-backward backroom dealings we see from the state legislature (re AICC fiasco).

I don't know how/why the city let the demolition of Stage Centre be approved without concrete plans/financing in place and released for the new tower. Didn't Devon even have to get approval for their tower before the Galleria parking lot was approved for demolition? ??... Good ole boy, I suppose.

Steve's business chat:


11:51
Comment From Guest
Can you give a "ballpark" time frame on when final renderings for the Stage center/OGE tower will be released. I'm still optimistic about this project but the way it has been approached so far is making me nervous.

We should know more once the architect is hired.
11:51

An application was filed today with the Downtown Design Review Committee to put up a construction fence.

Remember, they already have the demo permit so the Stage Center will likely start to come down soon:


Erect temporary demolition/construction fencing around the site using black vinyl coated chain link with black mesh privacy screen.

Going to be really sad to see this come down

Going to be really sad to see this come down
For some, yes. For many, like myself, not a sad day at all.

For some, yes. For many, like myself, not a sad day at all.

My feelings as well.

Going to be really sad to see this come down
If it was a 29 lane highway, you'd be overjoyed!

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For some, yes. For many, like myself, not a sad day at all.

Mine too. But I hope we get a pleasant surprise with the replacement though.

:(:(
If it was a 29 lane highway, you'd be overjoyed!

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5I know. Sadly, it's not a 29 Lane Highway :"(

:(:(I know. Sadly, it's not a 29 Lane Highway :"(
haha

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5

Destroying a historic architecturally significant buidling before we even see the final plans for OG&E. How backwards does that sound?

This would not happen in most urban cities. Our review processes need to reevaluation.

Holes bored & posts placed for perimeter fencing as of noon 6/17

Destroying a historic architecturally significant buidling before we even see the final plans for OG&E. How backwards does that sound?

That's not even an extremest or preachy save the art position. Seems perfectly reasonable.

Will Stage Center be Demolished This Next Month? | News OK (http://newsok.com/will-stage-center-be-demolished-this-next-month/article/4922351)

This would not happen in most urban cities. Our review processes need to reevaluation.

Really? How many urban cities have a design review process that requires both?

Any city where the historic review board takes precedence over the permitting board (usually a planning commission). In Cleveland the Landmarks Commission has both review over demo or mods to historic bldgs as well as any construction in a historic district. It's the city bldg code pincer (dual pronged).

It's no secret that OKC's design review processes aren't as good as other cities. We need the ability to review design and demo simultaneously. Other cities don't issue demo permits without knowing what the replacement is.

Thanks for bearing w my typo in the post you quoted. Haven't posted on OKC Talk on a desktop in a long time. Great exercise in brevity, accuracy not so much.

haha

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5I was being serious ;)