I would guess that the Thunder have helped a little, but most stereotypes - which is probably the basis for the negative image - likely are still there for most people.

Like my professor friend always stated, you have the truth, lies and statistics.

On a trip to NYC a few years ago - before the Thunder had made the Finals or was generally considered an elite team - I wore a Thunder T-shirt with Thabo's name/number to a concert in Central Park. I was stopped by more than one New Yorker who wanted to talk Thunder hoop including a Knicks fan who told me as long as the Knicks stunk so bad he would be cheering for OKC. He knew the entire roster.

On the same trip I was walking around the Financial District and saw a family with a kid sporting a KD away jersey emblazoned with "Oklahoma City." Figuring they were FROM here, I stopped and asked them, only to find they were from Paris. Not Texas, France. Good enough for me.

This is absolutely true. My best friend / Thunder season ticket partner and I have gone to at least one Thunder away game since the team arrived here, with the goal being to attend a game in every NBA city. I have repeatedly tried to get him to go to SLC, which I think would be a fantastic trip, and despite the stated goal, he can't be persuaded AT ALL to move the city from the bottom of the list. He thinks it will be the worst dud of a town/trip in the entire league. I have family who live there, and my cousin (a lapsed LDS himself) says there is quite the population there who rebel against the conservatism of the general market and make it a relatively good town for carousing, but my buddy won't hear of it. Heck, I'd like to go just for the locale/scenery.

SLC is a nice city but 62% (!) of the state of Utah is Mormon. That's astounding, especially since they've seen a pretty good increase in Latino population.

There is a big enough population that you can find plenty to do and plenty who aren't super socially conservative. But the Mormon presence is still very dominant and I've felt it every time I've been there. I would hate to try and do business there as a non-LDS member.

Still, great city to visit.

I would hate to try and do business there as a non-LDS member.


A rush to judgement.

A rush to judgement.

I didn't mean that to be negative as it probably came across...

I've done consulting engagements for companies in Utah and they all basically told me that the LDS community is very good about supporting their own. I'll just leave it at that.

SLC is a nice city but 62% (!) of the state of Utah is Mormon. That's astounding, especially since they've seen a pretty good increase in Latino population.

There is a big enough population that you can find plenty to do and plenty who aren't super socially conservative. But the Mormon presence is still very dominant and I've felt it every time I've been there. I would hate to try and do business there as a non-LDS member.

Still, great city to visit.

Actually, I have done quite a bit of business there on construction projects and have worked with some pretty good engineers and contractors there. I have never felt that my companies or I were at a disadvantage.

I booked a dj friend from Dallas a couple weeks ago and he wouldn't shut up about how impressed he was at our downtown. He said it used to think of it the same as he did about Ft Worth... blah.

I booked a dj friend from Dallas a couple weeks ago and he wouldn't shut up about how impressed he was at our downtown. He said it used to think of it the same as he did about Ft Worth... blah.

Had a similar experience with my in-laws from Houston. It was their first trip here and they were very impressed with what was going on. It felt good to hear, and to see their reactions. Their favorite buildings were Devon, City Place, First National, Braniff Building, and... Stage Center :(

There's a new project in Dallas' Uptown district called Akard Place that is going to have a 16-story office tower and a 20-story residential building. When I was reading the article, I thought it sounded very similar to what has been proposed for the Stage Center site here in OKC and thus would be an interesting comparison. The Akard Place project is much more aligned with what I had hoped to see for the Stage Center site in terms of design and quality.

Ultimately, the rendering for the Dallas project just pisses me off because that's what I think OKC should be getting and not what Rainey has shown us thus far.

Here is a link (http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2014/05/new-project-in-the-works-for-dallas-uptown-will-have-office-and-apartment-towers.html/) to the article in the Dallas paper.

And here is the rendering:
7780

That's cool and all, but would be better suited for the C2S area. I still think something taller should be going here :/

That's cool and all, but would be better suited for the C2S area. I still think something taller should be going here :/

I agree, but this 16 story building looks a hell of a lot better than the one Rainey showed.

true dat

That's cool and all, but would be better suited for the C2S area. I still think something taller should be going here :/

I'm really surprised that you want a tall building. Never heard you express that sentiment. ;)

I'm really surprised that you want a tall building. Never heard you express that sentiment. ;)Come on maaan. I don't want to be that tall, just 50-100 stories ;P

Should be getting very close to demolition on this property.

I don't know who the architect is but I did hear something interesting...

Rainey Williams approached Pickard Chilton (architects for Devon Energy Center) but they declined. They did not want to be affiliated with the project due to the controversy over demolishing Stage Center.

At least it shows Williams has been looking for a world-class architect.

Should be getting very close to demolition on this property.

I don't know who the architect is but I did hear something interesting...

Rainey Williams approached Pickard Chilton (architects for Devon Energy Center) but they declined. They did not want to be affiliated with the project due to the controversy over demolishing Stage Center.

At least it shows Williams has been looking for a world-class architect.

Honestly, is there even any controversy anymore? Most who were against the building demolition have come to grips with the fact the building is gone. Packard Chilton being the architect would've made it even less of a big deal, in my opinion.

Honestly, is there even any controversy anymore? Most who were against the building demolition have come to grips with the fact the building is gone. Packard Chilton being the architect would've made it even less of a big deal, in my opinion.

No kidding. That seems short-sighted on their part. If he had a big time architect, I'd feel a hell of a lot less angst over taking down the shipping containers.

That's really disappointing though. That would have been great to have another tower of their caliber.

Artists typically don't want to be part of destroying another artist's work, regardless of their opinion of the work or the opinion of others. It may not mean anything to people around here, but is is well regarded within parts of the architectural community. Don't worry though, there will be a firm that won't mind doing it. Pickard Chilton is established enough that they don't have to compromise one of their standards to get work.

No kidding. That seems short-sighted on their part. If he had a big time architect, I'd feel a hell of a lot less angst over taking down the shipping containers.

That's really disappointing though. That would have been great to have another tower of their caliber.

Maybe they felt that what was going to be requested of them (a la the "tower" that we all seem to hate) was not something they wanted to be involved with. Let's say you were a great painter with works that ranked up there with truly well-known great art. Would you like to be asked to do something lesser than what you want to be known for?

Maybe they felt that what was going to be requested of them (a la the "tower" that we all seem to hate) was not something they wanted to be involved with. Let's say you were a great painter with works that ranked up there with truly well-known great art. Would you like to be asked to do something lesser than what you want to be known for?

You know, I don't know. I suppose it would depend upon what I was being asked to do.

Artists typically don't want to be part of destroying another artist's work, regardless of their opinion of the work or the opinion of others. It may not mean anything to people around here, but is is well regarded within parts of the architectural community. Don't worry though, there will be a firm that won't mind doing it. Pickard Chilton is established enough that they don't have to compromise one of their standards to get work.

I'm not worried at all. I'm relieved to see it closer to being gone.

Pickard Chilton is entitled to make whatever decision they feel is best for them, I just admired their work with Devon and would have liked to see them work with Williams on this tower. They chose not to and I see that as unfortunate. It is what it is.

Once the demo is done, no architect should feel tainted by being part of the new project. They aren't part of the decision to demo it. However, they can be challenged to design a worthy replacement that will make (most) people forget about what is gone.

However, they can be challenged to design a worthy replacement that will make (most) people forget about what is gone.

True, but maybe they felt that they couldn't do that, given the scale and standards of the project. There are plenty though that don't give a crap about what they destroy in the process. Pei certainly didn't.

Once the demo is done, no architect should feel tainted by being part of the new project. They aren't part of the decision to demo it. However, they can be challenged to design a worthy replacement that will make (most) people forget about what is gone.

Exactly. If I recall, didn't they have to demo buildings to build the the Devon Tower?

True, but maybe they felt that they couldn't do that, given the scale and standards of the project. There are plenty though that don't give a crap about what they destroy in the process. Pei certainly didn't.

I understand the animosity towards Pei, but he was acting to satisfy his client...the leadership of OKC. He was using then contemporary thought to redefine OKC which was mired in a stalled out dilapidated urban core. He wasn't being asked to maintain a heritage of a small city, but rather to design a city of the future that would excite businessmen and creative persons alike. It was zealous and overreaching and would have been difficult even if recessions hadn't killed it. But, his "vision" of the modern city for OKC to be was killed dead at the worst possible time....after destroying one and before building another. His failure was born out of our city's aggressive efforts to be bold.

Whoever is hired to do the SCT isn't destroying anything. I think Pickard Chilton has created their OKC masterpiece and anything they now do here will fall short until someone is willing to spend > $1 Billion and to touch the sky. This project isn't that. However, other firms should aspire to make their mark and can enter into an emerging market. They will be able to do something great, even though it won't have Devon's budget or scope. Size isn't everything in buildings. Otherwise, lets just talk about quality being measured in square feet and be done with it...bigger wins.

Exactly. If I recall, didn't they have to demo buildings to build the the Devon Tower?
Not really, it was a multi level parking garage built to be the bottom floors of a mall never constructed (similar to what the convention center has). They tore down building for that mall/parking garage - but that was 30 years ago and all that was built was the garage. They did have to destroy 2 fountain plazas, but replaced those with better fountains.

Not really, it was a multi level parking garage built to be the bottom floors of a mall never constructed (similar to what the convention center has). They tore down building for that mall/parking garage - but that was 30 years ago and all that was built was the garage. They did have to destroy 2 fountain plazas, but replaced those with better fountains.

They also had to take out a bunch of "dirty dirt" that was contaminated. Brought in a bunch of new clean dirt to replace it before they could start building.

They also had to take out a bunch of "dirty dirt" that was contaminated. Brought in a bunch of new clean dirt to replace it before they could start building.Just curious, what happens to the old, contaminated dirt?

I'm hearing that Clayco out of Chicago will be the architect and construction manager (both design and build) for this project:

Corporate Projects - Clayco - Commercial Building Construction (http://www.claycorp.com/our-projects/corporate/)

This current project in Richmond (16-stories, plus 5-story parking garage) is very similar:

http://www.claycorp.com/media/2013/10/Gateway_4.jpg

I wouldn't mind that in our skyline.

Now that's nice. I like that a lot.

Edit: I explored Clayco's website more and I don't love some of their other projects. Hopefully, if they are indeed the team for this project, it's closer to this project than some of their others.

I'm hearing that Clayco out of Chicago will be the architect and construction manager (both design and build) for this project:

Corporate Projects - Clayco - Commercial Building Construction (http://www.claycorp.com/our-projects/corporate/)

This current project in Richmond (16-stories, plus 5-story parking garage) is very similar:

http://www.claycorp.com/media/2013/10/Gateway_4.jpg

I had heard this from a friend of mine at ADG, who worked on the initial renderings.

Huh, maybe my early thread optimism will be vindicated in the end.


Now that's nice. I like that a lot.

Edit: I explored Clayco's website more and I don't love some of their other projects. Hopefully, if they are indeed the team for this project, it's closer to this project than some of their others.

I like the look of most of their buildings that are clearly in an urban environment.

http://www.claycorp.com/media/2011/11/shaw_2.jpg
http://www.claycorp.com/media/2011/11/vue_4.jpg
http://www.claycorp.com/media/2013/09/Plaza_Clayton_11.jpg

They have a lot of buildings in their portfolio.

That last one is sweet.

http://www.claycorp.com/p/329/the-plaza-in-clayton/

That would be a nice transitional building to go between the current CBD and bricktown...

Sam Bradford lives in that building. True story...I know someone else who lives there and they said the day he moved in it was kind if a big deal. Neighbors got drinks and watched the moving can from their balconies to get a glimpse of the new QB.

Sorry...moving van.
Damn I-phone.

I guess you didn't read the article?

And the ten cities with the highest percentage of negative reactions:

10. Salt Lake City, Utah
9. Milwaukee, Wis.
8. Columbus, Ohio
7. Jacksonville, Fla.
6. St. Louis, Mo.
5. Cincinnati, Ohio
4. Oklahoma City, Okla.
3. Cleveland, Ohio
2. Birmingham, Ala.
1. Detroit, Mich.

Not a bad list of cities for the most part, excluding Jax. No offense Kerry.

I think this project might end up being taller if Clayco follows the same format as the design they did for Gateway Plaza in Richmond, as they designed that tower with the parking garage at base, if they do that for the OG&E tower that will add a little height to the project. I think this would be more efficient land use than putting massive parking garage south of the tower. Doing this would put the project at 20+ floors.

Just curious, what happens to the old, contaminated dirt?

Depends on the contamination. Sometimes it can just be heated and the chemicals in it can be collected out. Sometimes they can use microbes to digest chemicals. Sometimes it can be made into products which already have those chemicals/metals or in the process of making it; either reacts the toxins out or permanently bonds it in a way that they will not be released. Other times it just is removed from human contact and deposited where it will have little impact on the the environment.

Depends on the contamination. Sometimes it can just be heated and the chemicals in it can be collected out. Sometimes they can use microbes to digest chemicals. Sometimes it can be made into products which already have those chemicals/metals or in the process of making it; either reacts the toxins out or permanently bonds it in a way that they will not be released. Other times it just is removed from human contact and deposited where it will have little impact on the the environment.Thanks. Always wondered about that.

I think this project might end up being taller if Clayco follows the same format as the design they did for Gateway Plaza in Richmond, as they designed that tower with the parking garage at base, if they do that for the OG&E tower that will add a little height to the project. I think this would be more efficient land use than putting massive parking garage south of the tower. Doing this would put the project at 20+ floors.

Clayco is also starting an even smaller tower project in Cleveland, and they were decently responsive to local design review.

Should be getting very close to demolition on this property.

I don't know who the architect is but I did hear something interesting...

Rainey Williams approached Pickard Chilton (architects for Devon Energy Center) but they declined. They did not want to be affiliated with the project due to the controversy over demolishing Stage Center.

At least it shows Williams has been looking for a world-class architect.

And was rejected in his search of world class.

I think at 16 stories, we could get a decent project if designed right. Below is video of the 16 story Gateway Plaza in Richmond, VA, designed by Clayco, who is rumored to be the architect for the new OG&E Tower.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIJd2pqFVQ4

decent might be stretching it....

I think at 16 stories, we could get a decent project if designed right. Below is video of the 16 story Gateway Plaza in Richmond, VA, designed by Clayco, who is rumored to be the architect for the new OG&E Tower.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIJd2pqFVQ4

Clayco isn't an architecture firm - they are a development and property management REIT but they have a design services division called Forum that they use for their own projects.

OG+E would be using Clayco similarly to how Devon used Hines, which makes me question what Rainey Williams is doing if anything besides deflecting media attention from OG+E. He obviously was not brought in for his significant experience with development of this scale.

^

Clayco is doing design / build on this project.

So, they are serving as both architect and construction manager which will be different than what Devon did in using separate firms (Pickard Chilton & Hines) for those two tasks.

Is there an official name for the building yet?

The Mummers Bummer

Should be getting very close to demolition on this property.

I don't know who the architect is but I did hear something interesting...

Rainey Williams approached Pickard Chilton (architects for Devon Energy Center) but they declined. They did not want to be affiliated with the project due to the controversy over demolishing Stage Center.

At least it shows Williams has been looking for a world-class architect.

And maybe they appreciate just how cool the Stage Center is. I avoid driving by because I feel like crying everytime I see it and think about it being gone soon. It may be polarizing. I'm on the "adore" pole. So very sad.

Careful, now that its fate has been decided you're no longer allowed to express regret over the pending demolition.

Clayco's designs as shown on their website are pretty underwhelming.

This is the design department which is a subsidiary of Clayco, in which Spartan was referring:

Home: Forum Studio (http://www.forumstudio.com/)

Is there an official name for the building yet?

Stage Center Tower, hopefully.

I was always thought it was cool how The Shard in London got its name.

Piano's design met criticism from English Heritage, who claimed the building would be "a shard of glass through the heart of historic London", giving the building its name, The Shard.
The Shard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shard)

I'm sure it will be named after OG&E as they will almost certainly be the only office tenant.

Hopefully we find out more about this project soon, but Steve's last chat said he's awaiting a requested update and wondering if people will "like it or hate it". That didn't sound promising.

Given the parameters -- no more than 16 stories, a huge parking structure as the base -- how excited or disappointed can we possibly be at this point?

There just aren't that many variables here, unless they go off the deep end and completely cheap out. With OG&E, no chance it will go to the other extreme.

Given the parameters -- no more than 16 stories, a huge parking structure as the base -- how excited or disappointed can we possibly be at this point?

There just aren't that many variables here, unless they go off the deep end and completely cheap out. With OG&E, no chance it will go to the other extreme.

I have no idea on the economics of developing a high rise but with one big deal lined up at the get go with OGE, you'd think it wouldnt be too risky to add a few more floors of spec office space. But this is just the selfish OKC attitude in me of wanting a higher reaching skyline

I have no idea on the economics of developing a high rise but with one big deal lined up at the get go with OGE, you'd think it wouldnt be too risky to add a few more floors of spec office space. But this is just the selfish OKC attitude in me of wanting a higher reaching skyline

Absolutely right about spec space but this will amount to OG&E's private HQ, much like Devon Tower.

If there is any extra space, I'm sure it will be for them to grow into, not to lease out.

Given the parameters -- no more than 16 stories, a huge parking structure as the base -- how excited or disappointed can we possibly be at this point?

There just aren't that many variables here, unless they go off the deep end and completely cheap out. With OG&E, no chance it will go to the other extreme.

If the design is exceptional, I think we will be okay. The building itself could only be 16 stories, but if they put that on top of a 7 story parking garage, we could get a little height with project, again it all depends on the design and layout.

Hopefully we find out more about this project soon, but Steve's last chat said he's awaiting a requested update and wondering if people will "like it or hate it". That didn't sound promising.

Yeah this entire thing smells bad and the more we learn about it the more underwhelming it seems like this development will be. Hopefully the other tower that is supposedly in the works is announced around the same time as we see renderings for the Stage Center Tower to somewhat lessen the sting if it really is bad.