If all Williams is doing with the remainder of the property is selling to someone else then why would he infer that another tower be so short? Hmmm... Unless there's something brewing behind the scenes, this property (with all the nearby public investment) seems to be in jeopardy of really being poorly used.

If all Williams is doing with the remainder of the property is selling to someone else then why would he infer that another tower be so short? Hmmm... Unless there's something brewing behind the scenes, this property (with all the nearby public investment) seems to be in jeopardy of really being poorly used.

I suspect he wants plenty of leftover parking to rent out to others.

LOL! The major flaw of the stagnant center (Stage Center) is that it was
obsolete before it was conceived years, maybe decades, before it was
finished. It was totally useless years before it ever opened.What are you talking about? I wasn't even referring to the Stage Center.

I'm actually not sure about that...

I thought the City Council only got involved if the applicant wanted to appeal a decision.

You may be right, but if RW's application were to be denied he would be sure to appeal. So the council would get the final say.

You may be right, but if RW's application were to be denied he would be sure to appeal. So the council would get the final say.

Yes, I believe that's the way it works.

But it would also put all the City Councilmen in the position of having to decide the fate of the structure. I wouldn't be surprised if many of them wouldn't want that blood on their hands.

Forgive me for being a newbie OKC resident (only 5 years), but what is the big deal with Stage Center? Are people...

a.) that attached to it
b.) if not attached to it, would rather leave it be until someone guaranteed a better offer than what is out there from RW
c.) are there other lookers at this piece of property?

I'm that attached to it. If I were a multi-millionaire I'd restore it and put the children's art museum there. But I'm not. I did hire someone to take photos of it for my living room though. I think there are other places for OG&E to put their smallish tower. I wouldn't mind it on some of the Sandridge land on EK Gaylord. There's not even anything to demolish there. It's already gone. And I bet Sandridge would be glad to dump some property.

Forgive me for being a newbie OKC resident (only 5 years), but what is the big deal with Stage Center? Are people...

a.) that attached to it
b.) if not attached to it, would rather leave it be until someone guaranteed a better offer than what is out there from RW
c.) are there other lookers at this piece of property?It's a nice building and I like it. As Betts said, if I had the money, I'd buy it and renovate in into something useful. I don't see how it could become a Children's museum, but it could become something really cool.

Forgive me for being a newbie OKC resident (only 5 years), but what is the big deal with Stage Center?

It's a polarizing structure but it is incredibly unique and has lots of fans internationally.

What are you talking about? I wasn't even referring to the Stage Center.

He's just off his meds. Shhhhh...it's humorous.

It's ridiculous and I'm losing more and more respect for Rainy with every new bit of news. This tower is a joke. It should at least be 25 stories and provide amazing street interaction AND compliment the Stage Center by honoring it in a way.

Alright, I'm finally joining this anti movement here. I thought we were getting two decent buildings. Apparently not so. We get two if someone wants to give RW a lot of money.

Looks like this is becoming downtown's Rainey day....ba dum pssh

Let me state my position: NO RAINEY YOU CANT TEAR IT DOWN TO FLIP THE RAZED SITE.

IIRC, the Board of Adjustment made the final decision regarding demolishing the buildings on the Sandridge site.

EDIT: it appears DDRC decisions are appealed to the Board of Adjustment: http://www.okc.gov/planning/downtown_review/documents/BY-LAWS%20Amended%20June%2020%202013.pdf

IIRC, the Board of Adjustment made the final decision regarding demolishing the buildings on the Sandridge site.

They decided in favor though, ultimately. McDermid announced blood on his hands. Nothing for SR to appeal.

Te system is stacked for crap to get approved inevitably, in my experience.

Alright, I'm finally joining this anti movement here. I thought we were getting two decent buildings. Apparently not so. We get two if someone wants to give RW a lot of money.

Looks like this is becoming downtown's Rainey day....ba dum pssh

Let me state my position: NO RAINEY YOU CANT TEAR IT DOWN TO FLIP THE RAZED SITE.

I don't trust Rainey not to give us a parking garage and a 7 story suburban-style office building before all is said and done. First this started out as between 30-40 stories, then "at least 20", then two buildings, one 14-16 and a second 10-12 stories. Now we are at one single 14-story building and things are still in planning stages. This deal isn't going to get any better after demolition.

Anybody ready to accept this as the final product?

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/809/e5fn.jpg

Alright, I'm finally joining this anti movement here. I thought we were getting two decent buildings. Apparently not so. We get two if someone wants to give RW a lot of money.

Looks like this is becoming downtown's Rainey day....ba dum pssh

Let me state my position: NO RAINEY YOU CANT TEAR IT DOWN TO FLIP THE RAZED SITE.And let me say I want good street interaction as much as I want height. Funny enough, I actually fear this building will be too suburban as it is. If the conceptual renderings are underwhelming, just imagine what the actual ones are going to look like. Again, I am not asking for a super tall, just something that does SOMETHING for the skyline.

They decided in favor though, ultimately. McDermid announced blood on his hands. Nothing for SR to appeal.

Went back and looked. You're right.

As I said earlier, it's become quite clear that Rainey's plan is for a massive parking garage and everything else is secondary.

As I said earlier, it's become quite clear that Rainey's plan is for a massive parking garage and everything else is secondary.

It's looking more and more like it. This is really quite depressing especially as much hype as there was surrounding this project. The Renaissance Hotel built in the late 90s was a better, more solid announcement than this is. It really wouldn't surprise me if after the demolition, the entire tower is scrapped and he moves forward with just the parking garage.

And let me say I want good street interaction as much as I want height. Funny enough, I actually fear this building will be too suburban as it is. If the conceptual renderings are underwhelming, just imagine what the actual ones are going to look like. Again, I am not asking for a super tall, just something that does SOMETHING for the skyline.

Accounting for the further scaling-down of this project I am expecting, I think whatever poster said this belongs on NW Expressway or maybe even the Health Sciences area was spot on.

Well, if is built as the conceptual rendering is envisioned, then it would be alright downtown somewhere, maybe Midtown, Bricktown, perhaps on 23rd. St. or maybe the Farmers Market to kick start that area. I wish OG&E would build its own somewhere else and if they can't justify 25+ floors, then they shouldn't be building on a prime spot. Also, if they are in a building that can't have street interaction, then build in an office park... not on a public park.

As I said earlier, it's become quite clear that Rainey's plan is for a massive parking garage and everything else is secondary.

What irony that would be. I wonder what Larry Nichols would think of adjacent to his Crown Jewels of downtown.

I hate to beat a horse to death, but anybody who has been expecting great things out of $100M was kidding themselves. Remember the main-street garage itself is $20M with little to no below ground work…so that leaves about $80M for everything else in the site plan…$80M seems like not quite enough even for just the 16 story tower, let alone an altogether different tower or other supposedly "world-class" aspects of the development.

That being said, if Rainey is going to make it through the demolition process and build OGE's new headquarters, I'm actually kind of relieved that he won't be developing the entire block…someone's going to need to save it from the relative let down it has become...

Huh. Well, so much for my optimism.

Maybe pigs'll fly and the demolition will be denied.

Well, if is built as the conceptual rendering is envisioned, then it would be alright downtown somewhere, maybe Midtown, Bricktown, perhaps on 23rd. St. or maybe the Farmers Market to kick start that area. I wish OG&E would build its own somewhere else and if they can't justify 25+ floors, then they shouldn't be building on a prime spot. Also, if they are in a building that can't have street interaction, then build in an office park... not on a public park.

Right. I was disappointed in the height of the conceptual rendering but it, though minimal, was something I could half way support. As more and more gets scaled back or scrapped, the harder and harder it gets to support this.

Interesting.

okcBIZ: News: Tower Talk (http://okc.biz/oklahoma/article-7049-tower-talk.html)

What irony that would be. I wonder what Larry Nichols would think of adjacent to his Crown Jewels of downtown.

Someone needs to get him involved. More than design review standards, social pressure will affect Rainey Williams. When people in his social circle start asking him about why his development sucks balls, and what the hell he thinks he's doing building such a rancid piece of crap, he'll reassess the design. Maybe sell it to someone else.

I hate to beat a horse to death, but anybody who has been expecting great things out of $100M was kidding themselves..

Yep.

The more I think of this I think this will happen. He is going to say he tried his best to get something done but it all fell through. Then flip the property and make a few million.

The more I think of this I think this will happen. He is going to say he tried his best to get something done but it all fell through. Then flip the property and make a few million.

I was the first person who posted that possibility in this thread and everybody said I was just being extremely negative and glass half empty.

We all have to realize Rainey isn't building this for civic/community pride. It's about money and if Rainey can pave this into surface parking, flip it, and make a few million it will be a success as far as his pocketbook is concerned.

Wasn't SC sold by the Oklahoma City Community Foundation? I wonder how they feel about the changes.

Outstanding! I lived in Texas for several years. Dallas and Houston have their attributes, but OKC should absolutely not use them as development models. I have never fully understood the irrational allure that Dallas holds for many OKC-ers.

Really? This isn't an Oklahoma "phenomenon", don't you think this is the case with every smaller town or metro area compared to it's nearest mega-metro (Wichita and KC, Dayton and Cincinnati, Wichita Falls and Dallas, Greenville and Charlotte or Atlanta, Albuquerque and Denver, etc.) It's human nature for the sheeple masses, it's not an OKC issue.

Really? This isn't an Oklahoma "phenomenon", don't you think this is the case with every smaller town or metro area compared to it's nearest mega-metro (Wichita and KC, Dayton and Cincinnati, Wichita Falls and Dallas, Greenville and Charlotte or Atlanta, Albuquerque and Denver, etc.) It's human nature for the sheeple masses, it's not an OKC issue.

Like.

When I lived in Little Rock, the Memphis envy was every bit as strong if not stronger than the Dallas envy here. It was more popular to go to Memphis on the weekend than it was to stay in Little Rock, at least for my age group. My understanding is that OKC was like that about 15 years ago with Dallas. If/when OKC approaches 1.5-2 million metro population, you will probably start to see less Dallas envy because this city, by that time, should offer enough services and amenities that regular trips to Dallas aren't as necessary. I would say that about the 1.5 million population mark or a little larger is about the place in a city's growth where the influence of its nearby larger city becomes less important.

As someone who spent a couple years living in DFW, I have zero desire to ever make the trip down there unless I absolutely have to, I've got everything I need here.

They decided in favor though, ultimately. McDermid announced blood on his hands. Nothing for SR to appeal.

Te system is stacked for crap to get approved inevitably, in my experience.

What exactly is your experience with "the system" when it comes to approaching them with one of your projects?

Someone needs to get him involved. More than design review standards, social pressure will affect Rainey Williams. When people in his social circle start asking him about why his development sucks balls, and what the hell he thinks he's doing building such a rancid piece of crap, he'll reassess the design. Maybe sell it to someone else.

Who's to say he's not already? Do you honestly think he didn't know about this before we did? I seriously doubt he was made aware the same time we were. Come on folks, these people live in a different world than you and I. That said, you're right, put social pressure on them to get better results. I too am disappointed, but I'm not for eminent domain, I'd rather see what the market demands. Now with that said, I think review committees can due diligence and demand better quality work, walkability, public use space, and street interaction but this nonsense of demanding so many floors is hogwash, wake up, we're not NYC or Chicago. Who's to say Nichols and others weight didn't already help sway this recommendation to deny the demolition permit? The best thing we can do is call/write city council members and let them know your feelings. All this sideline chatting without actions in the real world to those who vote on it, is pointless. I've made the Mayor and my council person (who happens to be the DT council person) know on several occasions, how many of you all have?

Hmmm..... Stage Center: OKC planners recommend denying application for razing of old theater | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/3922477)

What are you talking about? I wasn't even referring to the Stage Center.
You are absolutely correct, however, two nights ago you were dreaming
about the Stage Center and was agreeing with my former post.

Believe me. I was there.

You are absolutely correct, however, two nights ago you were dreaming
about the Stage Center and was agreeing with my former post.

Believe me. I was there.Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmm, ok.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmm, ok.

Run….

Okay, back to discussing the proposed Stage Center project...

The Downtown Design Review Committee meets Jan. 16th to consider the demolition application. Conceptual drawings were submitted as well but for information only, as the exact design will have to be reviewed by the committee separately. Also, remember that the committee cannot withhold demolition approval based on what is to be built (or not built) in the future.

Rainey Williams submitted the 164-page report done by Webb Management Services on behalf of the former Stage Center owners, which demonstrated the need for millions in renovations.

The only conceptual drawings were the ones we have already seen and are attached in the article on the top of this thread.

There was a formal protest letter from the Central Oklahoma Institute of Architects, with 76 pages of supporting documents.


However, two interesting things of note: 1) The planning staff is recommending to deny the application to demolish (see first image below); and 2) In the conceptual plan introduction, it's revealed that the second 8-12 story building would be marketed to other developers, not developed by Williams (second image, item #2):



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/scdeny.jpg



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/scconcept.jpg


OK. I've been patiently awaiting more information, but this surely doesn't fit the bill for "world class."

Another example of over promising and under delivering. OKC's history is littered with them, but we've grown up a little. I'm not sure what demonstrable credibility Williams had earned, but put me in the group that is rapidly souring on this whole deal.

Speaking of Stage Center, does anybody have thoughts about the recent news regarding that it should stay?

(This would mean that the proposed "Stage Center Tower" would not be built, or at least not on this site.)

Ahh... now that I think about, let's fill these pages with bickering instead!!

Speaking of Stage Center, does anybody have thoughts about the recent news regarding that it should stay?

(This would mean that the proposed "Stage Center Tower" would not be built, or at least not on this site.)

Ahh... now that I think about, let's fill these pages with bickering instead!!


Hint: go back and read a couple of pages.

Forgive me for being a newbie OKC resident (only 5 years), but what is the big deal with Stage Center? Are people...

a.) that attached to it
b.) if not attached to it, would rather leave it be until someone guaranteed a better offer than what is out there from RW
c.) are there other lookers at this piece of property?

It's the most internationally renowned piece of architecture in OKC. So, regardless of our feelings about it, it is noteworthy.

People have said it cannot be rehabilitated and attempts have been made to find a use for it that have thus far failed.

As to your final question: who knows? This was conducted behind closed doors. However, we have heard about the potential for other suitors to that property. So, it's entirely possible that this was the best possible use of the property pitched to the people behind closed doors. It's also entirely possible that the pitched uses of other suitors were better.

I was the first person who posted that possibility in this thread and everybody said I was just being extremely negative and glass half empty.

We all have to realize Rainey isn't building this for civic/community pride. It's about money and if Rainey can pave this into surface parking, flip it, and make a few million it will be a success as far as his pocketbook is concerned.

Well then you should read that OKCBiz piece. He goes on and on about his love for the city and his grand vision for our skyline -- and the "gleaming tower" of at least 20 stories he was planning. At this point, whatever credibility he had has taken a serious hit. What can we actually believe, considering the "world class" hyperbole he's already used to pump up this project?

OK. I've been patiently awaiting more information, but this surely doesn't fit the bill for "world class."

Another example of over promising and under delivering. OKC's history is littered with them, but we've grown up a little. I'm not sure what demonstrable credibility Williams had earned, but put me in the group that is rapidly souring on this whole deal.


It's the most internationally renowned piece of architecture in OKC. So, regardless of our feelings about it, it is noteworthy.

People have said it cannot be rehabilitated and attempts have been made to find a use for it that have thus far failed.

As to your final question: who knows? This was conducted behind closed doors. However, we have heard about the potential for other suitors to that property. So, it's entirely possible that this was the best possible use of the property pitched to the people behind closed doors. It's also entirely possible that the pitched uses of other suitors were better.


Well then you should read that OKCBiz piece. He goes on and on about his love for the city and his grand vision for our skyline -- and the "gleaming tower" of at least 20 stories he was planning. At this point, whatever credibility he had has taken a serious hit. What can we actually believe, considering the "world class" hyperbole he's already used to pump up this project?

Get out of my head. It's like we're connected. Everything you said, I agree 120%.

At this point I would not be sad to see the SC demo permit be denied. But I would want a new tower proposal to eventually take its place, not have it continue to sit there. We'll see I guess.

There are still several steps to go, but this deal has simply become this:

The site was purchased for $4.275 million. A 14-16 story office building will be constructed on the east side as a build-to-suit for a local utility company. A large parking garage will be built to the south. The west side will be sold to another development group.

I know many people supported the initial promise of this development, but what it has become is vastly different, and many have changed their minds about it. Some feel lied to. I suspect that proponents of this original project will now be reserving judgment until all the facts are in, because new - and disturbing - ones seem to be coming out all the time.

This smelled bad from the very begin. Rainey Williams has zero regard for Oklahoma City. Hoyasooner called it early also that all RW really wanted to do was build a parking garage. The second I try to shake some skepticism, I get the most potent dose of reality. Are DDRC meeting open to the public?

Welcome to the bandwagon, everybody. We saved a spot for you.

Williams has lied to us over and over and over again at the expense of him being able to make a deal that involves ZERO risk or chance. "world class" "something okc citizens can be proud of" "at least 20 stories" . Hes been taking a safe route, with the guarantee of making a profit. Is this what business leaders should do? No. Risk should be a part of all business deals, and he has taken NONE.

First, he got a sweetheart deal on the property. Even if he decided to sell the property today he'd make millions of dollars.
Second, Hes building a giant parking garage (the sole purpose of this entire development) because he knows the demand is high for parking downtown. Though it is needed, IT IS NOT NEEDED ON THE MOST PRIME REAL ESTATE IN THE STATE
Third, He has a guarantee from a company (a public monopolistic utility company) that will be occupy every single available space in his building, and he is willing to decrease the size of his building at the drop of a hat to keep them as the tenant.
Fourth, there is now a POSSIBILITY he can make EVEN MORE MONEY by leasing space for SOMEBODY ELSE to build another building on his property.

He didn't even have the study done to prove that the stage center isn't viable anymore, the people that sold it to him did. He hasn't even have to put in the work to tear down the Stage Center.

This. Is. Bull****.

I'm sure Rainey Williams is not a bad guy, just someone who doesn't have the resources to pull off anything more than a build-to-suit office building with the most stable of all long-term tenants, and a parking garage which everyone knows will be full the day it opens.

He probably wanted to do a bigger building with spec space and another project on the same block that would be truly his own development (rather than OG&E's) but couldn't pull it off. For all we know, he may need to flip the other parcel just to make this deal work.


I suspect what we are now seeing is quite different than what he pitched to the foundation that chose him over others. And I would love to know what the other projects would have been.

This smelled bad from the very begin. Rainey Williams has zero regard for Oklahoma City. Hoyasooner called it early also that all RW really wanted to do was build a parking garage. The second I try to shake some skepticism, I get the most potent dose of reality. Are DDRC meeting open to the public?

DDRC meetings are not only open to the public, but you can speak if you wish, before they vote.

I'm actually not sure about that...

I thought the City Council only got involved if the applicant wanted to appeal a decision.

DDRC makes a "final" decision. If RW is denied, he can appeal to the Board of Adjustment. If the BOA denies his appeal, he can go to Circuit Court.

City Council has no official or unofficial role in this process, other than to make comments at meetings or appear before the Committee. I suppose they could even go so far as to pass a Resolution in support of one side, but that's advisory just the same.

I'm sure Rainey Williams is not a bad guy, just someone who doesn't have the resources to pull off anything more than a build-to-suit office building with the most stable of all long-term tenants, and a parking garage which everyone knows will be full the day it opens.

He probably wanted to do a bigger building with spec space and another project on the same block that would be truly his own development (rather than OG&E's) but couldn't pull it off. For all we know, he may need to flip the other parcel just to make this deal work.


I suspect what we are now seeing is quite different than what he pitched to the foundation that chose him over others. And I would love to know what the other projects would have been.

The thing is these developments are ALWAYS scaled down from the original concept. However, the fact that RW's ambitions have been scaled down so much prior to even demolition is a terrible sign for this project. If this moved forward as is, I would say this is as bad if not worse than the Randy Hogan debacle.

DDRC makes a "final" decision. If RW is denied, he can appeal to the Board of Adjustment. If the BOA denies his appeal, he can go to Circuit Court.

City Council has no official or unofficial role in this process, other than to make comments at meetings or appear before the Committee. I suppose they could even go so far as to pass a Resolution in support of one side, but that's advisory just the same.

Thanks for the clarification!

Can you explain why some development items -- like PUD's and liquor licenses -- end up on the City Council docket?

The thing is we all got Rainey'd. Steve Lackmeyer wrote in his article first announcing the sale: "If you doubt Rainey Williams, then you don't know Rainey Williams." He was right. Nobody knows Rainey Williams. And now we are supposed to let him tear down our most architecturally significant building and THEN use up our most-prime development site (because the only site that is better is being wasted for a convention center) for a no-risk small-scale development.

If OG+E wants a tower then they need to build it themselves. RW won't do as a shadow developer. DDRC can't evaluate his proposal, just his demo permit. That means those of you who want a better development better get on the Stage Center bandwagon, and quick. The question you've gotta ask is whether what we're getting is better than what we have or could have - most everyone would say the answer is no, so that makes you all preservationists on this day in history. Welcome aboard.

For the record, I also never believed that OG&E wasn't firmly attached to this project.

All the bluster about "trying to find an anchor tenant" and "don't assume anything about who the tenant(s) may be" seemed like subterfuge because I had heard from people that know that OG&E was involved long before the property sold, which I posted here months ago.

I also doubt Rainey Williams would have bought this property -- being a former Enogex board member -- without OG&E fully on-board. Especially now that it appears that's the only part of this development he'll be able to pull off.


So here we are months later, with all this speculation and conjecture and hints and promises and talk about a "world class high-rise" and it's nothing more than OG&E's new headquarters and a huge parking garage.

That in itself may be perfectly acceptable, but this feels like a complete manipulation just so OG&E can get the spot they wanted all along while at the same time claiming they are just a coincidental tenant in a project that was going to be built anyway.


If everyone would have been upfront about this, I wouldn't be so concerned. But the way this has all been handled seems like a throw back to the Old Boys Club where everything is done by a few well-connected people and then the public is manipulated into thinking it's all free enterprise at work.

For the record, I also never believed that OG&E wasn't firmly attached to this project.

All the bluster about "trying to find an anchor tenant" and "don't assume anything about who the tenant(s) may be" seemed like subterfuge because I had heard from people that know that OG&E was involved long before the property sold, which I posted here months ago.

I also doubt Rainey Williams would have bought this property -- being a former Enogex board member -- without OG&E fully on-board. Especially now that it appears that's the only part of this development he'll be able to pull off.


So here we are months later, with all this speculation and conjecture and hints and promises and talk about a "world class high-rise" and it's nothing more than OG&E's new headquarters and a huge parking garage.

That in itself may be perfectly acceptable, but this feels like a complete manipulation just so OG&E can get the spot they wanted all along while at the same time claiming they are just a coincidental tenant in a project that was going to be built anyway.


If everyone would have been upfront about this, I wouldn't be so concerned. But the way this has all been handled seems like a throw back to the Old Boys Club where everything is done by a few well-connected people and then the public is manipulated into thinking it's all free enterprise at work.

I've been holding off on this accusation because I realize how serious it is, but the time has come. This whole thing is looking like collusion more and more.

col·lu·sion noun \kə-ˈlü-zhən\
: secret cooperation for an illegal or dishonest purpose

^

I don't think it's a serious accusation... No laws were broken and these parties are free to act as they'd like. It's their properties and money, after all.

I just resent the ruse and see right through it.


And BTW, this isn't altogether different than what Devon is doing with Nick Preftakes. They are clearly underwriting all the property west of their new complex, which is the only reason he's been able to do absolutely nothing with that block for pushing seven years now.

At the same time, the beloved Lunch Box was evicted for some strange and unknown reasons and that space is just sitting empty along with everything else on that block except the city-owned building.

If Devon had just purchased those properties out-right, there would be much, much more scrutiny over the state of those properties and how they've handled tenants. As it is, not too many people care what Nick Preftakes does or doesn't do.

The thing is we all got Rainey'd. Steve Lackmeyer wrote in his article first announcing the sale: "If you doubt Rainey Williams, then you don't know Rainey Williams." He was right. Nobody knows Rainey Williams. And now we are supposed to let him tear down our most architecturally significant building and THEN use up our most-prime development site (because the only site that is better is being wasted for a convention center) for a no-risk small-scale development.

If OG+E wants a tower then they need to build it themselves. RW won't do as a shadow developer. DDRC can't evaluate his proposal, just his demo permit. That means those of you who want a better development better get on the Stage Center bandwagon, and quick. The question you've gotta ask is whether what we're getting is better than what we have or could have - most everyone would say the answer is no, so that makes you all preservationists on this day in history. Welcome aboard.

Exactly. If somebody wants to get this done they need to take the lead. This whole Williams/OG&E duel partnership is so bogus and manipulative. Save the Stage Center. If we aren't getting something that is worthwhile to the public in any way shape or form then scrap this deal. Who cares if the city isn't currently collecting taxes on this one parcel of land, we are doing fine without it. It's not like we don't have thousands of other debilitated buildings around the city we also aren't collecting taxes on. If they build this building on any different parcel of land the city would still be collecting roughly the same amount of taxes regardless, so why tear down the most internationally recognized building in our entire state?


For the record, I also never believed that OG&E wasn't firmly attached to this project.

All the bluster about "trying to find an anchor tenant" and "don't assume anything about who the tenant(s) may be" seemed like subterfuge because I had heard from people that know that OG&E was involved long before the property sold, which I posted here months ago.

I also doubt Rainey Williams would have bought this property -- being a former Enogex board member -- without OG&E fully on-board. Especially now that it appears that's the only part of this development he'll be able to pull off.


So here we are months later, with all this speculation and conjecture and hints and promises and talk about a "world class high-rise" and it's nothing more than OG&E's new headquarters and a huge parking garage.

That in itself may be perfectly acceptable, but this feels like a complete manipulation just so OG&E can get the spot they wanted all along while at the same time claiming they are just a coincidental tenant in a project that was going to be built anyway.


If everyone would have been upfront about this, I wouldn't be so concerned. But the way this has all been handled seems like a throw back to the Old Boys Club where everything is done by a few well-connected people and then the public is manipulated into thinking it's all free enterprise at work.

B.I.N.G.O.

I've been holding off on this accusation because I realize how serious it is, but the time has come. This whole thing is looking like collusion more and more.

col·lu·sion noun \kə-ˈlü-zhən\
: secret cooperation for an illegal or dishonest purpose

This is ridiculous. What exactly do you think was done illegally?

This is a reasonable demo of a blighted non reasonably salvageable structure and it should go foward