You honestly don't think Steve's story was an announcement? Surely he was embargoed in terms of a date he could release the story making it pretty much as close to an official announcement as you can get. Now we're being told it could be another 90 days before we find out anything concrete. All of this falls right in line with how we keep teasing ourselves without knowing any specific details of the tower itself.

No, we have not gotten the official announcement. That could be today, or maybe not til Monday or Tuesday.

Now it may be that the actual announcement contains no more info than was revealed in the NewsOK article. But we don't know yet.

Steve confirming speculation on Mystery Tower #2

Steve Lackmeyer: When all of the questions about the Stage Center site are answered, we will still have a "mystery tower" to discuss. I have very good sources who tell me yet another deal on a different site in the works. Williams knows this. Other players do too. And they're not worried.

Steves chat is going on now:

Oklahoma Business News, Technology, Energy & Real Estate OKC | NewsOK (http://newsok.com/business)

Personally I'm not from OKC and the few years I've been here Stage Center has just been an eyesore to me that doesn't make sense. I'll be glad to see it go and someone finally use the property to its full potential!!

This thread has certainly taken off like a rocket. It's not even 24 hours old, and already over 5000 views.

Interesting comment on the Stage Center tower on Steve's chat:

It's not a 20-story building anymore than Devon Energy Center ended up being a 34-story building. Remember, part of this process is not setting expectations too high. Under promise, over deliver, and you have a happy audience. Also, my sources tell me this building will have a much wider mass....

Devon has a pretty big floorplate as it is at around 25,000 sq ft and that whole complex takes up about two city blocks, but that is including the parking garage, auditorium, rotunda and podium. I expect this to be more of just a tower with first floor retail aspects and a parking garage.

Steve mentioned that several tenants were interested, so this could very well end up being taller than 20 stories, even if it only increased by 10 stories to 30, it would put it at about the same height as Chase Tower, I will take that, better than nothing, just trying to look at the bright side. The sun has to shine on a dog's ass someday right?

From the chat... such a tease:

Steve Lackmeyer:
Here's something that will really drive you guys crazy.... I'm starting to see hints that there maybe a mystery tower 3 in the works.....

Anyone can speak in generalities, we've all seen enough evidence to support the likelihood of 3 towers.

Steve Lackmeyer:
Here's something that will really drive you guys crazy.... I'm starting to see hints that there maybe a mystery tower 3 in the works.....

Is this possible: 3 Towers starting construction in next 3 years?

You honestly don't think Steve's story was an announcement? Surely he was embargoed in terms of a date he could release the story making it pretty much as close to an official announcement as you can get. Now we're being told it could be another 90 days before we find out anything concrete. All of this falls right in line with how we keep teasing ourselves without knowing any specific details of the tower itself.
+1

Ray 11:02 a.m. Will there be an official announcement on the tower today or next week?
Steve Lackmeyer 11:02 a.m. Did you not ready my story today? it's official now.

C'mon people. Is English that difficult to read and understand?

In March of 2008, Devon had a release that said they were building a new tower. That was the official announcement. They gave little details. Then in August, we saw the first renderings with more specific details. I'd say this is as official as a spec tower can be.

From the chat... such a tease:

Steve Lackmeyer:
Here's something that will really drive you guys crazy.... I'm starting to see hints that there maybe a mystery tower 3 in the works.....

OKC is on the verge of a population boom. Bigger than what's going on right now. Think about it. 3 new corporate towers. That's going to lead to the mid and high rise residential towers. That means OKC will be better equipped to serve and house the young college grads. That leads to more jobs and more businesses growing/ setting up shop in OKC. This is exciting times right now!

Oh, there you are, Perry.

I laughed.

Rainey Williams isn't holding a big media event for this because that isn't his style. Perhaps Williams or the Community Foundation will issue a press release confirming the sale, but that's about it until details for the building and its anchor tenant(s) are known and ready to announce.

Thread created for this project at skyscrapercity:

OKLAHOMA CITY | Stage Center Tower | 20+ fl | Pro - SkyscraperCity (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1648381)

I don't think the resistance is as big as everyone is making it out to be. Most OKCitians refer to Downtown as Bricktown and don't even know a tower is being built. Most don't care or even aware of the architectural significance of SC. A very small, vocal group with no money will object and be seen as obstructionists and the local media as always will barely cover the protractors. Our city has proven time after time throughout the decades we don't care about demolishing historic structures (Sandridge ala India Temple and KerrMac come to mind as well as Film Exchange). 98-99% of OKCitians are probably intellectually lazy and just don't care but the 1-2% who are informed and active are on this message board. Just an observation, not necessarily my full opinion.

You have a valid point about the lack of civic interest, but I'll repeat what I wrote earlier....

I think we all underestimate the loss of Stage Center. I know my heart will be low in the stomach when I see the first pieces fall to the ground. Seeing that structure in a giant heap will make many of us wince at tearing down something that is very unique to our city and to the architectural world. One day there will be people looking at pictures of Stage Center and asking what we were possibly thinking. Sounds all too familiar. It's just a shame something couldn't have been worked out. Onward and upward, but it's with mixed emotions.

You have a valid point about the lack of civic interest, but I'll repeat what I wrote earlier....

I think we all underestimate the loss of Stage Center. I know my heart will be low in the stomach when I see the first pieces fall to the ground. Seeing that structure in a giant heap will make many of us wince at tearing down something that is very unique to our city and to the architectural world. One day there will be people looking at pictures of Stage Center and asking what we were possibly thinking. Sounds all too familiar. It's just a shame something couldn't have been worked out. Onward and upward, but it's with mixed emotions.

you massively overestimate how much the average person cares about the stage center

also a good number of people very interested in downtown think it is an eye sore and can't wait for it to be gone ..

you massively overestimate how much the average person cares about the stage center

also a good number of people very interested in downtown think it is an eye sore and can't wait for it to be gone ..

And the entire point of my post was that you (and others) massively underestimate what Stage Center means to a lot of people in Oklahoma City.

And your "good number" downtown also thought, in their day, that the Pei Plan was wonderful.

Perhaps some of the interior elements from Stage Center could be utilized in what ever ends up in the Film Exchange building /museum in Central Park.

Perhaps some of the interior elements from Stage Center could be utilized in what ever ends up in the Film Exchange building /museum in Central Park.

there is a 99.9999% chance that building still gets torn down

And the entire point of my post was that you (and others) massively underestimate what Stage Center means to a lot of people in Oklahoma City.

And your "good number" downtown also thought, in their day, that the Pei Plan was wonderful.

we will never know if it was or was not .. it didn't get implemented ..

we will never know if it was or was not .. it didn't get implemented ..

How old are you, Boulder? Much of the demolition for the Pei Plan took place. I watched it in real-time. Pei's vision for replacing a good part of the core was only partially implemented. The Myriad Gardens, complete with the botanical tube, was in the earliest of plans of Mr. Pei.

I think what Boulder means is that though most of the demolishion for the Pei Plan took place, most of what was promised in its place was never built. It ended up being a lose-lose situation and is largely responsible for many of OKC's lingering image problems today.

I think what Boulder means is that though most of the demolishion for the Pei Plan took place, most of what was promised in its place was never built. It ended up being a lose-lose situation and is largely responsible for many of OKC's lingering image problems today.

this

and i should have said "didn't get fully implemented"

Let me say thank goodness that it didn't get finished. We would be like Brasília. We dodged a huge bullet, even if we did take one in the gut.

Let me say thank goodness that it didn't get finished. We would be like Brasília. We dodged a huge bullet, even if we did take one in the gut.

How would things be worse if it was completed? OKC lost most of its history and character but didn't realize the 'progress' that was promised in its place.

You don't give Brasilia enough credit. It's not good urbanism, but the architecture itself is way cool in a mid-century/Jetsons futuristic sort of way. If the Pei plan had been implemented we would have looked like a generic Soviet city. Or the campus of Texas A&M.

How would things be worse if it was completed? OKC lost most of its history and character but didn't realize the 'progress' that was promised in its place.

Watch this video (posted by JTF awhile back):

Urban planning in Albany, New York - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=809xbjbvQd8)

When you get to the part (about midway through) on the Empire State Plaza, you can get a good idea of what we probably would have been stuck with.

I'm hearing a lot of pushback from people throughout OKC. It would seem if they are to blame anyone it is not the buyer, it would be OKC Community Foundation.

OKC definitely would have been unique had it have been implemented. No other city in the US looks like OKC would have with a finished Pei Plan. It's terrible urbanism though. I wonder how the city would have transitioned to today's era when classic art deco urbanism, like what was destroyed by Pei, has become cool again.

You don't give Brasilia enough credit. It's not good urbanism, but the architecture itself is way cool in a mid-century/Jetsons futuristic sort of way. If the Pei plan had been implemented we would have looked like a generic Soviet city. Or the campus of Texas A&M.

I love this!

This is an example of a 29 story tower in Nashville called The Pinnacle at Symphony Place which was built a few years ago, sits a little over 400ft, if the Stage Center Tower ends up being 30 stories, we could see something like this, now this wouldn't be so bad,now would it?

http://ydworkshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Pinnacle-from-fourth.jpg

On another board I frequent, someone said it best when they said, "someone needs to throw an angry bird at Stage Center." lol

I know it's a sentimental thing for a lot of folks... but it's time.

Hey now, I don't know what's going on with the ramp on the left and all of that, but that lower facade is flirting dangerously close with makes-JTF-happy territory.

One day there will be people looking at pictures of Stage Center and asking what we were possibly thinking.

That's funny, that's the exact thing I was thinking when they built it.

Take into consideration the fact Mr. Rainey is highly connected with "old money" in Oklahoma City and also on the board of Enogex. I believe behind the scenes discussions are occurring within the MLP partners as to the location of the HQ. Not a public fight, just good stewards loyal to either Houston or Oklahoma City lobbying for their respective city.

Mr. Rainey, with the backing and pledged support of other loyal OKC business leaders have purchased the SC property to aid in the recruitment of the Enogex HQ. As a director, Mr. Rainey may not want to directly profit from a non-arms length transaction, but could receive a generous finders / consultant fee for brokering the deal.

The first, and most desired option, is be to build out a tower for the Enogex HQ on the SC property at "more than 20 floors". (Think Devon equivalent size) Enogex will likely NOT directly purchase or develop the property/tower as their current (90 days) capital and debt position is still in development. If Enogex makes the decision to HQ in OKC within the next 90 days, they will likely enter into an agreement as the "anchor" tenant for all but the first 2 floors of the tower and evaluate the outright purchase 5 - 15 years after completion.

The second option truly reflects the strength of OKC as there is enough pent up demand for new Class A office space in a somewhat spec building. This option would likely be closer to the announced 20 floor height. An out of state investor/developer may not build a spec 20 floor tower, but Mr. Rainey likely has an "understanding" with some of the major players that if the first option does not materialize, the OKC crowd supporting the recruitment of Enogex will locate enough business into the new tower to make it financially viable.

Either way, OKC gets a new tower and there is no public rejection of OKC should Enogex not HQ here. It's very important for the city's momentum and the key players to not suffer public rejection for such a visible and national project. This is a true Win/Win for all involved.

This is an example of a 29 story tower in Nashville called The Pinnacle at Symphony Place which was built a few years ago, sits a little over 400ft, if the Stage Center Tower ends up being 30 stories, we could see something like this, now this wouldn't be so bad,now would it?

http://ydworkshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Pinnacle-from-fourth.jpg

Not at all...It was designed by Pickard Chilton as well.

How old are you, Boulder? Much of the demolition for the Pei Plan took place. I watched it in real-time. Pei's vision for replacing a good part of the core was only partially implemented. The Myriad Gardens, complete with the botanical tube, was in the earliest of plans of Mr. Pei.

The original Pei plan for the gardens was different from what was built. His design had 2 tubles side by side, though smaller. Also, there use to be a large model in the engr. office of the Myriad Gardens that showed a large hotel at 45* on plan from the CB in the northeast corner sloping down to the lake. That is the reason the east side was finished last, they were waiting for the funding to come through - it never did so they redesigned it and moved berm walls adding a small parking lot and sidewalks around the top of the lake. Also, in Pei's plan there were store fronts on the pond level of the gardens beneath the upper gardens. In the tunnels there were 'cut-outs' where the tunnels were going to be extended (under the upper sidewalks). There was an large open area behind a class curtain wall with 2 sets of esculators going up to the parking lot on current site of the Devon tower (though hidden, this was built - and flooded during heavy rains). What was built was a 'shell' of what was in the Pei design.

Steve Lackmeyer said it was going to be a 20 story tower with no current tenant for space A office space - wow, what a joke!

This backlash is why I said this shouldn't have been announced until there was a definite plan in place. You don't tell the city you are going to destroy one of its most beloved landmarks without at least showing the public what the plans are and what it is going to be replaced with. The city needs to be sold on why this is a good idea.

Steve Lackmeyer said it was going to be a 20 story tower with no current tenant for space A office space - wow, what a joke!

Lol.He said AT LEAST 20 stories. The Devon tower was only suppose to be 37 stories. You obviously just read it how you wanted to and came to a really stupid conclusion.

Steve Lackmeyer said it was going to be a 20 story tower with no current tenant for space A office space - wow, what a joke!

Not really, he said 'upwards' of 20 stories, and that negotiations for a tenant were underway. He eluded what was first suggested for devon turned out to be multiple floors higher. Not a joke at all.

Take into consideration the fact Mr. Rainey is highly connected with "old money" in Oklahoma City and also on the board of Enogex. I believe behind the scenes discussions are occurring within the MLP partners as to the location of the HQ. Not a public fight, just good stewards loyal to either Houston or Oklahoma City lobbying for their respective city.

Mr. Rainey, with the backing and pledged support of other loyal OKC business leaders have purchased the SC property to aid in the recruitment of the Enogex HQ. As a director, Mr. Rainey may not want to directly profit from a non-arms length transaction, but could receive a generous finders / consultant fee for brokering the deal.

The first, and most desired option, is be to build out a tower for the Enogex HQ on the SC property at "more than 20 floors". (Think Devon equivalent size) Enogex will likely NOT directly purchase or develop the property/tower as their current (90 days) capital and debt position is still in development. If Enogex makes the decision to HQ in OKC within the next 90 days, they will likely enter into an agreement as the "anchor" tenant for all but the first 2 floors of the tower and evaluate the outright purchase 5 - 15 years after completion.

The second option truly reflects the strength of OKC as there is enough pent up demand for new Class A office space in a somewhat spec building. This option would likely be closer to the announced 20 floor height. An out of state investor/developer may not build a spec 20 floor tower, but Mr. Rainey likely has an "understanding" with some of the major players that if the first option does not materialize, the OKC crowd supporting the recruitment of Enogex will locate enough business into the new tower to make it financially viable.

Either way, OKC gets a new tower and there is no public rejection of OKC should Enogex not HQ here. It's very important for the city's momentum and the key players to not suffer public rejection for such a visible and national project. This is a true Win/Win for all involved.


Well stated, I agree.

I think we should be starting an "OKC <3 Enogex" campaign..

What'a funny about all of this, and has gone completely unreported locally, is that Centerpoint Energy is a LOT bigger than Enogex.

New office building to take place of Stage Center in Downtown OKC - Oklahoma City - OKC - KOCO.com (http://www.koco.com/news/oklahomanews/okc/New-office-building-to-take-place-of-Stage-Center-in-Downtown-OKC/-/11777584/21199526/-/y6f3nw/-/index.html)

A big idea for Stage Center, before it's too late | News OK (http://newsok.com/a-big-idea-for-stage-center-before-its-too-late/article/3866318/?page=1)

New High-Rise Coming To Downtown OKC - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/22942394/downtown-okc-to-get)

Company purchases Stage Center, plans to demolish structure | KFOR.com (http://kfor.com/2013/07/26/company-purchases-stage-center-plans-to-demolish-structure/)

Downtown OKC is getting another tall building?. | The Lost Ogle (http://www.thelostogle.com/2013/07/26/downtown-okc-is-getting-another-tall-building/)

OKLAHOMA CITY | Stage Center Tower | 20+ fl | Pro - SkyscraperCity (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1648381)

http://blog.archpaper.com/wordpress/archives/67083

OG&E considering space in new downtown tower | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2013/07/26/oge-considering-space-in-new-downtown-tower-real-estate/)

Preservanists make me sick, they do nothing when a building sits there for years dilapidated and neglected and say and do nothing, and a soon as somebody wants to demolish it to make way for a new development they cry, whatever! :please:

I got my people confused. Rainey Williams is undoubtedly the grandson of G.Rainey Williams, chairman of the surgery department at OUHSC back in the day. One of his grandsons of the same name went to Casady with my son, who is 23, which is how I got confused. Surely this is an uncle.

I think we should be starting an "OKC <3 Enogex" campaign..

What'a funny about all of this, and has gone completely unreported locally, is that Centerpoint Energy is a LOT bigger than Enogex.

I don't think people really understand the new company. I keep seeing people think that Centerpoint and Enogex are merging. That's actually humorous as Centerpoint is a HUGE Fortune 500 company. The new company has nothing to do with Centerpoint itself, as it has nothing to do with OG&E itself. Enogex (an OG&E company) will be part a new MLP with a new division of Centerpoint Energy.

All people are thinking about is the tower, which I understand, but they have the actual business entities all confused.

Preservanists make me sick, they do nothing when a building sits there for years dilapidated and neglected and say and do nothing, and a soon as somebody wants to demolish it to make way for a new development they cry, whatever! :please:

You don't seem to know much what preservationists do then.

For the record, I called this site for the next big development site years ago:

Stage Center - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Stage+Center#vw-comments)

OG&E considering space in new downtown tower | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2013/07/26/oge-considering-space-in-new-downtown-tower-real-estate/)

I guess I'm one of the few who don't subscribe to the JR.

I got my people confused. Rainey Williams is undoubtedly the grandson of G.Rainey Williams, chairman of the surgery department at OUHSC back in the day. One of his grandsons of the same name went to Casady with my son, who is 23, which is how I got confused. Surely this is an uncle.

I believe Pete stated that this Rainey Williams graduated from Casady in 1978, would make him in his 50's.