The way Steve put it, was that we will have big NEW announcements this month. The projects above we all kind of knew about expect for the 21C Museum Hotel. We knew about the Metropolitan, and Shartel apartments before December. We really still don't know what Tom Ward is up to. We still really don't know what is going on with Rainey Williams and his new tower. And major new downtown anchors, I guess he was referring to OPUBCO moving to the Century Center?

So is this the old media bait? You know, give us just enough details to keep us interested, keep us reading, keep us participating, but not delivering any real substantial details?

Bingo. Certain individuals, media and otherwise, keep promising what's coming, what's coming. Like leading a jackass with the carrot.

In fairness, Steve gets asked a million times for what is coming next... Here, on his blog, in his chats... And when he politely refuses, he gets asked again in a million different ways.

You guys already know what is coming next. What you really want to know is the genesis of an idea that is just starting. And when that type of information comes out, it's far from final or certain and can take years before anything even comes of it.

You people are impossible to please.

No kidding.

Yea, we need to watch out for phrases like "could be", "possibly", and "maybe". Nothing is promised, and I am beginning to realize that nobody really knows anything, they are just educated guesses. I said a while back in the Summer, that we wouldn't have an official DETAILED tower announcement until early next year, and people thought I was crazy, well its beginning to look that way now....

I understand the frustration and didn't mean to be snarky in my comments, it's just that I think we are all adjusting to the new-ish ways information is delivered.

Wasn't that long ago that none of us would know anything until there was a big press conference, ground breaking and renderings. Now, we track every little nuance and have been speculating about the Stage Center site for years. Then, because information gets out here and in social media, guys like Rainey Williams have to say something on the record long before he's really ready to release any plans. Then he provides a rough estimate in an interview, and we all track it like it's a countdown to a space mission -- and then get disappointed when dates come and go without any new news.

Remember, even after Devon had the big dog-and-pony show with the model and detailed renderings, their plans changed considerably.

As I said, we all have to adjust to getting information in a stream rather than one big conclusive report. And of course, having all this advance information is generally great.

Pete, any idea where Top Golf will be located in OKC? TopGolf Aims to Open in Oklahoma City | TopGolf (http://topgolf.com/company/press/press-releases/topgolf-aims-to-open-in-oklahoma-city) http://www.facebook.com/topgolfokc , sorry to derail this thread and feel free to move this post.

Pete, any idea where Top Golf will be located in OKC? TopGolf Aims to Open in Oklahoma City | TopGolf (http://topgolf.com/company/press/press-releases/topgolf-aims-to-open-in-oklahoma-city)

Near Memorial & Western I believe.

Pete, any idea where Top Golf will be located in OKC? TopGolf Aims to Open in Oklahoma City | TopGolf (http://topgolf.com/company/press/press-releases/topgolf-aims-to-open-in-oklahoma-city) , sorry to derail this thread and feel free to move this post.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/879db353da22476a3778f75c15010dcb/tumblr_mga4prhLHO1rhvmgeo1_250.gif

I understand the frustration and didn't mean to be snarky in my comments, it's just that I think we are all adjusting to the new-ish ways information is delivered.

Wasn't that long ago that none of us would know anything until there was a big press conference, ground breaking and renderings. Now, we track every little nuance and have been speculating about the Stage Center site for years. Then, because information gets out here and in social media, guys like Rainey Williams have to say something on the record long before he's really ready to release any plans. Then he provides a rough estimate in an interview, and we all track it like it's a countdown to a space mission -- and then get disappointed when dates come and go without any new news.

Remember, even after Devon had the big dog-and-pony show with the model and detailed renderings, their plans changed considerably.

As I said, we all have to adjust to getting information in a stream rather than one big conclusive report. And of course, having all this advance information is generally great.

Pete, keep doing your thing. I think most of us understand that things take time and it is unfortunate that some on here lack the maturity to handle certain types of information. As if multimillion dollar business and real estate deals are going to adhere to our schedules. Because that's what happens in the movies, right?

Pete, keep doing your thing. I think most of us understand that things take time and it is unfortunate that some on here lack the maturity to handle certain types of information. As if multimillion dollar business and real estate deals are going to adhere to our schedules. Because that's what happens in the movies, right?

Exactly right. People need to stop thinking that they have been wronged if they don't get the information they want, when they want it, in a format they want. This tower will go forward because there is interest in the business world, not because some posters at OKCTalk are flipping out.

I understand the frustration and didn't mean to be snarky in my comments, it's just that I think we are all adjusting to the new-ish ways information is delivered.

Wasn't that long ago that none of us would know anything until there was a big press conference, ground breaking and renderings. Now, we track every little nuance and have been speculating about the Stage Center site for years. Then, because information gets out here and in social media, guys like Rainey Williams have to say something on the record long before he's really ready to release any plans. Then he provides a rough estimate in an interview, and we all track it like it's a countdown to a space mission -- and then get disappointed when dates come and go without any new news.

Remember, even after Devon had the big dog-and-pony show with the model and detailed renderings, their plans changed considerably.

As I said, we all have to adjust to getting information in a stream rather than one big conclusive report. And of course, having all this advance information is generally great.

Right, these developments take years to play out sometimes and have numerous delays. Most of the projects we are talking about right now on this site won't be reality until probably 2016-17ish. That's a long time from our perspective but in terms of business deals it really isn't that long.

Yeah, as soon as we get the slightest wind of a downtown building, within hours there are rough renderings of our new skyline with some awesome 40-story tower.

When you start there, everything thereafter is almost bound to be a disappointment.

Dreams and conjecture are fun, but you have to keep things in context. I get a little carried away as well, although I still think Midtown will eventually be one of the coolest urban neighborhoods anywhere. :)

I think people are expecting and wanting the kind of development boom places like Austin, Charlotte, Raleigh, Nashville, and many others experienced in the mid-2000s. Basically continual, speculative announcement and construction of highly ambitious developments. I would like to see that kind of growth in OKC too but we aren't quite there yet. The development we are seeing given the national economy, which is still not running on all cylinders, is nothing short of a miracle.

I disagree, when people say, we should have more information in 30 days, then 90 days, and it constantly does not happen, you have to start wondering how credible are so called "sources".

What happened to the good old days when reporters actually chased and broke stories, instead if chasing City Council & Downtown Design Review meetings and waiting on emails?

I disagree, when people say, we should have more information in 30 days, then 90 days, and it constantly does not happen, you have to start wondering how credible are so called "sources".

What happened to the good old days when reporters actually chased and broke stories, instead if chasing City Council & Downtown Design Review meetings and waiting on emails?

Or perhaps targets change. Things aren't written in stone, dates shift, and (sometimes) plans fall apart. Steve and Pete both are doing incredible jobs. I can't imagine how anyone can say because a businessman is going to release information on HIS timetable, that somehow Steve and Pete are less than credible.

I think people are expecting and wanting the kind of development boom places like Austin, Charlotte, Raleigh, Nashville, and many others experienced in the mid-2000s. Basically continual, speculative announcement and construction of highly ambitious developments. I would like to see that kind of growth in OKC too but we aren't quite there yet. The development we are seeing given the national economy, which is still not running on all cylinders, is nothing short of a miracle.

Good ole bchris. Always finding a way to slide in how OKC isn't on the level of Austin, Charlotte, etc.

Sorry, I had to!! :wink:

For the most part, I don't mind when dates get pushed back if Steve or Pete say something about an upcoming announcement because they are secondary sources.

But when you're the developer and you say “Our goal is to in 90 days be able to announce the anchor tenant and release the preliminary site design work...We are very excited to announce our plans for this property, which we think has tremendous potential” in the middle of the summer, and it's now almost the new year, it's a little bit disconcerting.

On the other hand, that more has not broken on this specific project is probably a *good* sign. Perhaps upon announcing plans to build a tower more companies approached Rainey about possibly leasing space in the tower and so now modifications have to be made to the plans.

Even so, making the announcement before having a better idea of what was going to occur was unnecessary. Sure, we would have all wanted to know what his plans are, but he really doesn't need to put out information before that information is accurate and ready. I do know that he needed to have a baseline idea of what he was going to do with it when he made a bid on the site, but that information was not owed to the public and in hindsight should have probably been withheld until he was ready to reveal a more comprehensive plan.

Option 1: this falls through and we are left witht the stage center a little bit longer.

Option 2: this stays on track and we have a tower.


I am okay with both of those. Seriously people, grow up. This is a building, not the cure to all disease.

The way this is going, we will probably get an official announcement on what is going on the old Bank America drive thru site before this one...lol

The way Steve put it, was that we will have big NEW announcements this month. The projects above we all kind of knew about expect for the 21C Museum Hotel. We knew about the Metropolitan, and Shartel apartments before December. We really still don't know what Tom Ward is up to. We still really don't know what is going on with Rainey Williams and his new tower. And major new downtown anchors, I guess he was referring to OPUBCO moving to the Century Center?

So is this the old media bait? You know, give us just enough details to keep us interested, keep us reading, keep us participating, but not delivering any real substantial details?


I'm confused. Did I miss Christmas and December is over already?

I'm confused. Did I miss Christmas and December is over already?

The theory is that plans and drawings would be released a month in advance before any OCURA meeting, therefore, if it hasn't been by now, then it won't be til mid January or mid February before we know.

It is incredible that so many who think they know so much have no grasp of how complicated and risky these developments are and what goes into making them happen. Some of these "demands" to follow some personal expectations regarding time, style, etc. are child like and ego centric. Having access to OKCTalk, or sites like it does not constitute being part of this process. The deadlines on this project are in no way dictated by any PR initiative to satisfy the curiosity or demands of the curious.

fXXNrHpaQ3k

"The project, which is expected to take three to five years to complete, will be developed by Oklahoma City-based Kestrel Investments, which owns 3.15-acre property, located between W. Sheridan and W. California and S. Dewey and S. Walker. The site is currently home to Stage Center, a vacant arts venue that has fallen into such disrepair that it is no longer feasible to invest in its rehabilitation.
Kestrel today filed a conceptual site master plan for development of the property with the Oklahoma City Downtown Design Review Committee (DDRC). Kestrel also filed for a demolition permit for the Stage Center. Development of the project is contingent on demolition of the Stage Center."

Og&e

OGE Energy Corp. to anchor new tower development | News OK (http://newsok.com/oge-energy-corp.-to-anchor-new-tower-development/article/3915395)

14-16 story tower FML!

I am disappointed it is not taller, but I like the layout and design.

That's a really cool looking building.

This is a major disappointment! Do I like the design and layout, yes. But the height is ridiculous.... I hate stage center but almost rather see it saved than see this tiny thing built

I like the utilization of the block and the inclusion of a permanent stage that I presume will be used for the arts festival...

The height is fine with me. Too much height will ruin afternoon sun on the gardens. I think the interaction with street at the lower levels, plus how they've left the festival grounds intact, is fantastic.

I like the way it looks, but I would like it better if it was twice as tall. :)

I looked again. I liked it more...Yup.


My opinion matters too. I'm kind of a big deal.

I think it's great, especially with the other building, either hotel or housing. Not as tall as i'd like, but with the width of the building they don't need to go any taller, but looks first class.This is a nice fit.

http://i.woofmaker.com/RJqmSGUHwsi7JTU8.gif

It was pretty much assumed that this would only be a mid-rise. I like the look of it and the street interaction. It won't make much of an impact on the skyline from a distance though. Hopefully the Bank of America (site) tower is a true skyline changer.

This is a major disappointment! Do I like the design and layout, yes. But the height is ridiculous.... I hate stage center but almost rather see it saved than see this tiny thing built

This isn't that tiny, it also includes a second tower.....8 - 12 floors in it's own right.

http://i.woofmaker.com/RJqmSGUHwsi7JTU8.gif

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

That's comedy gold.

Praedura, can we get some renderings?

I think I'll give this some time and thought before I weigh in.

I don't hate it, I'm irritated they changed their stance from 20+ to under 20. Love the interaction it will have and honestly could make the arts festival 10x better. But so frustrated with the height.

I do believe this will have as big of an impact on the street front interaction as Devon had on our Skyline.

I very much like it! Of course, I would've LOVED it if it was taller, but I still really like it, nonetheless.

Design is good, but the height is a disappointment, he said at least 20 stories, and we are not even getting that!

well combined its almost 30 stories....SMH

Wish it were taller, faster and incorporated residences upstairs overlooking the Myriad Gardens, but it isn't my money so I don't get to vote.

Kudos to Rainey Williams not only for undertaking this $100 million project, but also having the courage to replace Stage Center. No matter what other great things he does in life, he'll be remembered for that.

I don't hate it, I'm irritated they changed their stance from 20+ to under 20. Love the interaction it will have and honestly could make the arts festival 10x better. But so frustrated with the height.

I do believe this will have as big of an impact on the street front interaction as Devon had on our Skyline.

I agree. Downtown really needs more streetfront placemaking and it looks like this building will provide it.

Curious why the delay in construction start to 2015? Will it take all year to demo stage center?

Great looking building. Love the layout.

well combined its almost 30 stories....SMH
Makes you wonder if they were looking at having it all in one building and then switched it to 2

From Steve's blog:

"Don’t get caught up on height. The OGE Tower is shorter than some may have expected, and shorter than the “at least 20 stories” previously indicated. But the plan changed. There is also more ahead than what you see. There is one more tower now firmly in development beyond what is being shown in renderings today. And I’m tracking up to two more towers, one of which also is appearing to be an increasingly real deal as well. If * current trends continue, this skyline has a lot of change yet to take place."

Also the. Could still be close to 300 feet tall.

The height is fine with me. Too much height will ruin afternoon sun on the gardens. I think the interaction with street at the lower levels, plus how they've left the festival grounds intact, is fantastic.

This. Plus it is planned as a good mix of office, retail, housing and gives a better than minimal nod to festival of the arts. Fare thee well SC. Welcome OGE et al.

Looks good. I think this will fit on that block perfectly. Would have hoped for a little taller, but I'm not complaining.

From what I see so far - I love it. I was hoping they could re-open California so as to provide a nice terminal view as California Ave is re-urbanized, but they did appear to put some sort of architectural feature at the current terminus so hopefully that will suffice. Lots of retail will be facing the MBG, and dare I ask, could it be a CityTarget?

From Steve's blog:

"Don’t get caught up on height. The OGE Tower is shorter than some may have expected, and shorter than the “at least 20 stories” previously indicated. But the plan changed. There is also more ahead than what you see. There is one more tower now firmly in development beyond what is being shown in renderings today. And I’m tracking up to two more towers, one of which also is appearing to be an increasingly real deal as well. If * current trends continue, this skyline has a lot of change yet to take place."

This leads me to believe that the Preftakes tower is very real and could be announced soon.

Edit: or maybe this is in reference to the hotel/housing tower? Steve?

This leads me to believe that the Preftakes tower is very real and could be announced soon.

Edit: or maybe this is in reference to the hotel/housing tower? Steve?

Also the Bank of America lot

Even though it isn't as tall, this could be as big a deal for downtown as the Devon Tower, in that it really interacts with the street level in a way that no other downtown building currently does.

Also the Bank of America lot

Just from Steve's quote, I was thinking he was talking about the immediate surrounding area that was shown in the renderings. Of course, there could be one built south of this for all we know and a Preftakes building and a BOA lot building.

Also the Bank of America lot

I agree. The Bank of America lot is screaming ripe for a major tower. It would really help balance the skyline as well.