JTF, anything in that style of coding that would permit the city to mandate that the owner of Lot X must build the city's second tallest structure or sell off the property to someone who will? My comment on mandating height was in response to this notion:


Yea, that is a bit extreme but Form Based codes could definitely mandate a minimum height.

Not long ago, Seattle passed a zoning law to limit skyscrapers to a maximum of 38 floors. This was to limit the strain on resources.

Was that after these were proposed or approved?

Filling downtown Seattle skyscrapers a tall order | Business & Technology | The Seattle Times (http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2021635740_seattleskyscrapersxml.html)


Developer Kevin Daniels, who plans to break ground on the 43-story Fifth & Columbia in November, says his hotel and office tower will differentiate itself from the commodity high-rise spaces downtown.


A third skyscraper, the 43-story Civic Square, would occupy a full city block bounded by Cherry and James streets and Third and Fourth avenues. The tower would add 600,000 square feet of office, 40,000 square feet of retail and 190,000 square feet of residential space.

Was that after these were proposed or approved?

Filling downtown Seattle skyscrapers a tall order | Business & Technology | The Seattle Times (http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2021635740_seattleskyscrapersxml.html)

Been a while, it was from 1989 thru 1999. -

NATIONAL NOTEBOOK - SEATTLE - Project Tailored To Space Limits - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/1989/11/26/realestate/national-notebook-seattle-project-tailored-to-space-limits.html)

Coov23, this response confirms what I believe too^^
He insistently belittles everything that has to do with OKC/OKC metro. He then talks about how great Cleveland is and tells us that OKC needs to aspire to be more like it. I've been here for years. Don't post often. I just grown tired of his elitist attitude. I'm still not sure why he's here. There has to be a Cleveland message board he can lurk and post. No one here cares how an economically downtrodden city, that is losing population and jobs, is doing.

He insistently belittles everything that has to do with OKC/OKC metro. He then talks about how great Cleveland is and tells us that OKC needs to aspire to be more like it. I've been here for years. Don't post often. I just grown tired of his elitist attitude. I'm still not sure why he's here. There has to be a Cleveland message board he can lurk and post. No one here cares how an economically downtrodden city, that is losing population and jobs, is doing.

Let's move on. Just ignore him and focus on the topic.

So, in Steve's chat on Friday he said that we are 45 days or less away from hearing. That is before Christmas. I am hoping that we continue to have more news of developments flowing in like we have the last 6 months. It seems like we have been having one big announcement a week on average. I am ready for a huge one! GE location/structure, Stage Center, Preftakes, or something we don't know about would be huge in my book of announcements.

He insistently belittles everything that has to do with OKC/OKC metro. He then talks about how great Cleveland is and tells us that OKC needs to aspire to be more like it. I've been here for years. Don't post often. I just grown tired of his elitist attitude. I'm still not sure why he's here. There has to be a Cleveland message board he can lurk and post. No one here cares how an economically downtrodden city, that is losing population and jobs, is doing.

Can you explain what Cleveland has to do with the Stage Center site?

I believe I was referring to the pattern of extended deadlines, underwhelming and/or incomplete announcements after extensions, and so on. The point (that people who understand development would get) is that this site is tied up in economic development purgatory, while some people on here still refer to this tower as a done deal.

This is pretty evidently not a done deal, and I still fail to understand what that has to do with Cleveland, let alone Kansas City or Charlotte or other cities we talk a lot about on this city forum.

You should direct your frustration over the amateurish development process of this site toward the developer, not Cleveland. I wouldn't personally even go there yet since I know very well how complicated these deals are, but I'm just saying since you do seem very frustrated over the lack of "progress"

I've visited Cleveland and it is actually a fairly nice city. The stereotypes you hear of it being a run down rust belt city are the same you hear about Oklahoma City not having electricity, using tepees, and horse drawn carriages for transportation.

Cleveland, like every city, has run down areas and crime...

I think we need to take a deep breath and wait and see what's proposed to be built. It may be shocking in a good way, it very well could be world class as proclaimed.

A tower would only need to be 29 stories to be at least as tall as Chase, assuming an average floor height of 17'.

I cannot imagine very many skyscrapers with a 17' per floor height. I know Devon has a few floors at that height but it's hard to imagine an entire building with that much wasted floor height. Depending on spans most buildings fall into the 10'-14' range. In other words, hotels and apartments fall into the 10-12' range and office buildings wind up at 12'-14' range.

The only thing throwing off the normal developed buildings were the "vanities" they were slinging up in Dubai and Qatar where they knew they weren't going to rent that many offices but still they wanted their building to be taller than their neighbors (phallic contests) so they inched the height per floor to where it hit the 17-18' range. The were wasting vertical height, energy and construction costs but they didn't care. Now, many of those structures stand empty.

If it's a serious development with a goal of maximizing the square footage, I can't imagine someone wasting cubic space.

I cannot imagine very many skyscrapers with a 17' per floor height. I know Devon has a few floors at that height but it's hard to imagine an entire building with that much wasted floor height. Depending on spans most buildings fall into the 10'-14' range. In other words, hotels and apartments fall into the 10-12' range and office buildings wind up at 12'-14' range.

The only thing throwing off the normal developed buildings were the "vanities" they were slinging up in Dubai and Qatar where they knew they weren't going to rent that many offices but still they wanted their building to be taller than their neighbors (phallic contests) so they inched the height per floor to where it hit the 17-18' range. The were wasting vertical height, energy and construction costs but they didn't care. Now, many of those structures stand empty.
If it's a serious development with a goal of maximizing the square footage, I can't imagine someone wasting cubic space.

Floors can be thick...

I've visited Cleveland and it is actually a fairly nice city. The stereotypes you hear of it being a run down rust belt city are the same you hear about Oklahoma City not having electricity, using tepees, and horse drawn carriages for transportation.

Cleveland, like every city, has run down areas and crime...

Shhhhh, let them keep hating on it lol. Cleveland stinks, no reason to come here, and make the traffic and crowds worse...

Floors can be thick...

The total floor count also usually doesn't include mechanical floors and using the floor height only to determine total height also leaves out the crown height. Even if the new tower was equal in height with chase after adding up the floors, unless Williams plans to leave the roof flat, it will still be taller than chase.

Everyone needs to chill the F out on this. This isn't your project on your timeline. The guy bought a piece of land downtown and said he intends to do something with it... By no means was he required to tell us immediately the fine details of his plans. At least he gave us some indication of them. Preftakes has owned a deteriorating block of old buildings across the street for years and still hasn't made any kind of announcement.

There's definitely no need to bash cities like Cleveland in toto because that's what most people in this country do to OKC. I decided a long term ago that I wasn't going to stoop to that level and bash other places so I could feel better about where I live/am from. Every city has strengths and weaknesses. I'd rather discuss specifics...

Floors can be thick...

Most office buildings have 9' ceilings, residential and hotels 8' to 9'. To have 6 to 8' between floors is expensive and unless you're trying to eliminate all the interior columns, there's no reason to make trusses that deep or to make ceiling crawl spaces anywhere near that depth.

Granted there's a batch of vanity ways to increase the height of the structure without it reflecting into occupiable floor space. Rather than have a roof cooling tower, you can dedicate a number of floors for mechanical purposes. You can build a roof tower (think 1st National Bank, or Empire State or most of buildings in Dubai) which serves as an observation deck or just adds unusable height. The new New York Times Tower has about 29 % unusable building height. Compared to the NYT Building, the Empire State Bldg has much more floor space at not a lot over 10' per floor. It's still considered prime office space.

any more news on this? Is the here any news on the height and floors? Its been a awhile since anything has been said. a couple months ago this thing was looking good but it seems to have died?

any more news on this? Is the here any news on the height and floors? Its been a awhile since anything has been said. a couple months ago this thing was looking good but it seems to have died?Naaa, if there was news about the height and floors, it would immediately be followed by 3 pages of how it is stupid and doesn't work lol I would be part of the crowd complaining that it isn't high enough lol ;)

I deleted a bunch of posts that were off-topic and way too personal.

Differences of opinion are to be expected and even embraced but there is never any reason to be disrespectful. Those who can't follow this simple rule will have their posting privileges revoked.


Thanks -- back to topic!

I deleted a bunch of posts that were off-topic and way too personal.

Differences of opinion are to be expected and even embraced but there is never any reason to be disrespectful. Those who can't follow this simple rule will have their posting privileges revoked.


Thanks -- back to topic!

Thank you.

My guess on us hearing anything legit on this topic should be no later than February 28th, as much as the news has been delayed...

I heard we should hear by December 20th.

I heard we should hear by December 20th.

Woah. Pullin' out the sources big time for this one, Curt.

Woah. Pullin' out the sources big time for this one, Curt.

Don't get snarky with me son!

Don't get snarky with me son!

;)

I heard we should hear by December 20th.

Nice early Christmas present huh ?

Nice early Christmas present huh ?

I think it's more like a year late Christmas present!

Don't get snarky with me son!

Haha. 12/20 will work...

In order for this to be reviewed by the DDRC on December 19th, plans need to be submitted by November 19th. If this doesn't happen, we probably won't see or hear anything on this until after the holidays, in other words, early next year!

^

True, but they'll likely release information long before it goes to design review.

Devon certainly did.

Keeping an open mind here, but it is now November 14th........

I still think something like this would be cool for the Stage Center Tower.

http://ajklijs.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/grand-lisboa-macau.jpg

Keep telling myself I won't click on this thread anymore until it jumps a page or two but yet here I am. Hope this childhood icon of mine is replaced with something worthy.

I'm sorry, but I have to post a picture of this beauty. Has anyone ever seen or heard of this amazing structure? It is the Royal Clocker Tower Hotel in Saudi Arabia. THIS THING IS INSANE!!!!! Look how freaking huge this is. I can't believe she hasn't gotten the press she deserves.

http://www.sibaritissimo.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Makkah-Clock-Royal-Tower-01.jpg

I also have been meaning to post a new thread of pictures of my favorite skyscrapers and I will. This one will be included. I know this is a bit off topic, I just wanted to see what people on here thought if this sexy beast.

Also to JTF, I'm just curious of your opinion of these massive structures that have been built. Similar to Tokyo's SkyTree.

I still think something like this would be cool for the Stage Center Tower.

http://ajklijs.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/grand-lisboa-macau.jpg

TBH, I see this building fitting in more along the lines of NW Expressway by the Tiffany Apartments or Perhaps maybe on the old Horns Seed Co site. This is just the kind of building I don't think would good in a dense skyline and should be set apart. It is cool though, imo. I am favor of keeping our downtown skyline very dense and having buildings close to the street. Devon gets a free pass just because they did an excellent job with the building, but in the future, there shouldn't be a big as a setback.

ugly

ugly

I totally agree, Spartan. Both of those last two building shown are among the ugliest skyscrapers built in recent history.

par for the posters, no offense

par for the posters, no offense

I won't comment about that but sometimes more is less, if you get my point.

ugly

Have to agree, that is effing hideous.

Ouch. Well it's whatever I guess. BTW, I was not suggesting either of those towers be built in the Stage Center and the Royal Clock Tower would not be a good fit for OKC. Again, I would like to see what Bchris posted somewhere along NW Expressway. At least there is an architect out there somewhere that agrees with me.

par for the posters, no offenseit's whatever man. Doesn't really matter at any rate. Everyone has their own opinion and I respect that.

I still think something like this would be cool for the Stage Center Tower.

http://ajklijs.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/grand-lisboa-macau.jpg

That looks like it belongs in Las Vegas.

That looks like it belongs in Las Vegas.

If Las Vegas decided to relocate to Dubai

5027

I think this building would be perfect for the site! Enable could have a gas line that allowed it to spit fire every hour.

Also to JTF, I'm just curious of your opinion of these massive structures that have been built. Similar to Tokyo's SkyTree.

I prefer my architecture to be in scale and vernacular. Buildings should define public space, not be singular works of art to be viewed from space. Those buildings posted appear to me to be cries for help - much like Miley Cyrus hanging nude from a wrecking ball.

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/Image1.jpg

I honestly thought it was a joke.

That looks like it belongs in Las Vegas.

It might even be too tacky for Las Vegas.

Ouch. Well it's whatever I guess. BTW, I was not suggesting either of those towers be built in the Stage Center and the Royal Clock Tower would not be a good fit for OKC. Again, I would like to see what Bchris posted somewhere along NW Expressway. At least there is an architect out there somewhere that agrees with me.

Considering what it is, where it is, and who built it...Yeah. That's a bad fit for OKC.

This new tower going up in uptown Dallas is only 22 stories high, but its sleek and modern design makes it stand out. If the Stage Center Tower only ended up being 20-25 stories high, it could still turnout out to be a great project, its about quality not quantity.

http://harwoodinternational.com/wp-content/uploads/frost-tower-rendering1.jpg

Looks a little bit like a modern version of Oklahoma Tower.

G.Walker, give it up and find a hobby, this project is dead....

G.Walker, give it up and find a hobby, this project is dead....

Do you have any knowledge to add to the discussion or are you just overreacting because their has not been an announcement made yet?

G.Walker, give it up and find a hobby, this project is dead....

If by "this project" you mean the Stage Center Tower, you're being totally ridiculous.

Wow, it looks like downtown Omaha is getting a new tower. This one is 25 stories, but like our announcement of the Stage Center Tower, a lot is still up in the air. But at least the Omaha developer provided renderings and more details to support his proposal, and it seems this project has more traction. Good job Omaha!

http://www.omaha.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=OW&Date=20131117&Category=MONEY&ArtNo=131119039&Ref=AR&Profile=1697&maxw=598&maxh=400

Wow, it looks like downtown Omaha is getting a new tower. This one is 25 stories, but like our announcement of the Stage Center Tower, a lot is still up in the air. But at least the Omaha developer provided renderings and more details to support his proposal, and it seems this project has more traction. Good job Omaha!

http://www.omaha.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=OW&Date=20131117&Category=MONEY&ArtNo=131119039&Ref=AR&Profile=1697&maxw=598&maxh=400

Good for Omaha. That city is booming right now and is also developing somewhat of a hip reputation and is becoming a magnet for young professionals. I haven't been but from the images I've seen its turning into a pretty amazing place.

Good for Omaha. That city is booming right now and is also developing somewhat of a hip reputation and is becoming a magnet for young professionals. I haven't been but from the images I've seen its turning into a pretty amazing place.

I don't know if hip is the word I would describe their development. I like the vibe OKC has more. Omaha's developments aren't quite as diverse as ours. Theirs seem to be less hipster and more commercialized.


I do think that Raney could have had more companies wanting to relocate to his tower if he would have had a design to present. People are visual and need to see things before they make a massive move.

I don't know if hip is the word I would describe their development. I like the vibe OKC has more. Omaha's developments aren't quite as diverse as ours. Theirs seem to be less hipster and more commercialized.


I do think that Raney could have had more companies wanting to relocate to his tower if he would have had a design to present. People are visual and need to see things before they make a massive move.
I'm sure he has renderings of different concepts (heights, etc. based on demand) available to potential tenants, especially if they are a large high profile tenant.

Good for Omaha. That city is booming right now and is also developing somewhat of a hip reputation and is becoming a magnet for young professionals. I haven't been but from the images I've seen its turning into a pretty amazing place.

Lol. Oh yes, Omaha is running circles around us, when will we catch up?

(If you stopped to smell the roses around OKC or on here you'd notice our entire downtown is u/c and the Omaha poster we have often confirms for us that they civically look up to OKC).

That said clearly their tower proposal is more legit than ours.

I really like reading the updates from UN on Omaha and also enjoy getting on some of the other forums where general urban development is documented and discussed.

But it's also very hard to get any point of comparison when you just look at a list of developments with pretty renderings.


I will say this: There are very few metro areas growing as quickly as OKC since the last part of the last decade (real numbers) and similarly, we can stack up a lot of big objective measures when it comes to urban development (recent, u/c, proposed), such as new housing units, hotel rooms, unemployment rates, growth of top employers, restaurants/bars/retail in the core, office space occupancy, total investment, etc., etc.

OKC is not going to stack up well against much bigger cities, but I'd love to compare actual numbers to any Tier 3 city.


Again, really enjoy the posts on Omaha but also want to make sure we keep perspective on well how things are going in OKC.

Lol. Oh yes, Omaha is running circles around us, when will we catch up?


I never said that.

I really like reading the updates from UN on Omaha and also enjoy getting on some of the other forums where general urban development is documented and discussed.

But it's also very hard to get any point of comparison when you just look at a list of developments with pretty renderings.


I will say this: There are very few metro areas growing as quickly as OKC since the last part of the last decade (real numbers) and similarly, we can stack up a lot of big objective measures when it comes to urban development (recent, u/c, proposed), such as new housing units, hotel rooms, unemployment rates, growth of top employers, restaurants/bars/retail in the core, office space occupancy, total investment, etc., etc.

OKC is not going to stack up well against much bigger cities, but I'd love to compare actual numbers to any Tier 3 city.


Again, really enjoy the posts on Omaha but also want to make sure we keep perspective on well how things are going in OKC.

I remember a couple of months ago someone posted a proposed building in Dallas. There were a few posts stating the usual "why can't we have this in OKC" blah blah blah. The funny thing is I knew for a fact that project was long dead as our company was looking for long term space in the DFW area for a new office (we have since decided not to) and had actually inquired about said tower before being notified it was off. That didn't stop someone from posting a rendering on this website. I will need to find what building it was, but I have a feeling this is more common on here. Maybe from now on we should start posting pics of projects that are actually under construction?

In any event, this thread is close to going full stupid. No renderings are available to the public so this project must be dead, right?