One-of-a-kind doesn't always equate to something worth keeping. Stage Center is a perfect example.

Especially in OKC. Originality is unsustainable here.

Especially in OKC. Originality is unsustainable here.
If Stage Center is the best example of "quality" originality, then I'm glad it's unsustainable.

If Stage Center is the best example of "quality" originality, then I'm glad it's unsustainable.

See.

One-of-a-kind doesn't always equate to something worth keeping. Stage Center is a perfect example.

This.

If Stage Center is the best example of "quality" originality, then I'm glad it's unsustainable.

Agreed.

I think you are right. If this city had learned, there wouldn't be so much support for demolishing a one-of-a-kind piece of art for a mediocre 20-story tower that really won't even change the skyline. If this was a 600 ft tower I would be more supportive but this seems like it's going to be demolishing the Stage Center to build the Valiance Bank tower.

I'll tell ya what, if this new tower came in at under 600 feet but was designed like Frost Bank Tower in Austin, then I wouldn't give two hoots about what's going in on this spot. I'm certain that Rainey Williams knows how controversial this spot is so it is my hope that the 20-25 story feeler he and his cohorts might be putting out there is just purely speculation and they're truly working on some kind of wonderful.

Guys, you don't have to worry about it. I don't know why you get so irritated that people like something you don't or that some used to appreciate something that you don't. But you will get your way and Oklahoma City will be a little less unfamiliar and we will be guaranteed to have ZERO notable performing arts venues left (I think the Civic Center is a great venue, but it's hard to find a city without something like the Civic Center) . I always had a blast at SC and it was my favorite community theater out of the ones I have been, which include ones in LA, Dallas, SF, and Chicago. But, I get it, no one gives a crap here and that's why it's in such terrible shape to begin with. Most of those places are junkers and it was over reaching to do something more ambitious in OKC. Like I said before, OKC does not deserve something as original as Stage Center, because something that different actually pisses people off here so much they get giddy about it being destroyed.

Now, if only the architect had used a round barn as inspiration, then it'd be protected forever. lol.

But you will get your way ... and we will be guaranteed to have ZERO notable performing arts venues left (I think the Civic Center is a great venue, but it's hard to find a city without something like the Civic Center). I always had a blast at SC and it was my favorite community theater out of the ones I have been, which include ones in LA, Dallas, SF, and Chicago. But, I get it, no one gives a crap here and that's why it's in such terrible shape to begin with.

But,
1) even if Stage Center is not demolished and the tower goes somewhere else, you will be guaranteed to have ZERO notable performing arts venues left.
-----> Stage Center DIED in 2010 and is still hemorrhaging cash!
2) you will never have a blast at SC again.
3) lots of people give a crap here about SC, but not to the tune it'll take to fix it up and make it usable again.
Rant all you want but it will take a Butt Load of money to make it so you can enjoy SC the way it was made to be enjoyed again and no one seems to be ponying up that kind of cash.
Have you got any ideas on how to make it usable, again?

Guys, you don't have to worry about it. I don't know why you get so irritated that people like something you don't or that some used to appreciate something that you don't. But you will get your way and Oklahoma City will be a little less unfamiliar and we will be guaranteed to have ZERO notable performing arts venues left (I think the Civic Center is a great venue, but it's hard to find a city without something like the Civic Center) . I always had a blast at SC and it was my favorite community theater out of the ones I have been, which include ones in LA, Dallas, SF, and Chicago. But, I get it, no one gives a crap here and that's why it's in such terrible shape to begin with. Most of those places are junkers and it was over reaching to do something more ambitious in OKC. Like I said before, OKC does not deserve something as original as Stage Center, because something that different actually pisses people off here so much they get giddy about it being destroyed.

Now, if only the architect had used a round barn as inspiration, then it'd be protected forever. lol.

BDP, perhaps you could control some of the hyperbole. I'm not pissed off that you like it, but your ranting about OKC not deserving something as original as Stage Center is melodramatic. And I'm certainly not giddy it's being destroyed as there are other sites where a new tower could go. But it's not a notable performing arts venue. It's abandoned and rotting away. Something better has come along.

Guys, you don't have to worry about it. I don't know why you get so irritated that people like something you don't or that some used to appreciate something that you don't. But you will get your way and Oklahoma City will be a little less unfamiliar and we will be guaranteed to have ZERO notable performing arts venues left (I think the Civic Center is a great venue, but it's hard to find a city without something like the Civic Center) . I always had a blast at SC and it was my favorite community theater out of the ones I have been, which include ones in LA, Dallas, SF, and Chicago. But, I get it, no one gives a crap here and that's why it's in such terrible shape to begin with. Most of those places are junkers and it was over reaching to do something more ambitious in OKC. Like I said before, OKC does not deserve something as original as Stage Center, because something that different actually pisses people off here so much they get giddy about it being destroyed.

Now, if only the architect had used a round barn as inspiration, then it'd be protected forever. lol.

...or, if the Stage Center was on the Historic Route 66, then it would have received more "acclaim" , thus remaining. Hello 20-28 story New Chapter in OKC.

Guys, you don't have to worry about it. I don't know why you get so irritated that people like something you don't or that some used to appreciate something that you don't. But you will get your way and Oklahoma City will be a little less unfamiliar and we will be guaranteed to have ZERO notable performing arts venues left (I think the Civic Center is a great venue, but it's hard to find a city without something like the Civic Center) . I always had a blast at SC and it was my favorite community theater out of the ones I have been, which include ones in LA, Dallas, SF, and Chicago. But, I get it, no one gives a crap here and that's why it's in such terrible shape to begin with. Most of those places are junkers and it was over reaching to do something more ambitious in OKC. Like I said before, OKC does not deserve something as original as Stage Center, because something that different actually pisses people off here so much they get giddy about it being destroyed.

Now, if only the architect had used a round barn as inspiration, then it'd be protected forever. lol.

There is so much here to dislike that it is hard to know where to begin. This city supported Stage Center as long as it made sense to do so. The building simply could not last forever as a functioning space for human interaction because that is, at its heart, not why it was designed. It is an exercise in theory and style, and while it may be worthwhile that it challenged certain orthodoxies about how such buildings can support crowds and activity over long periods of time, it cannot continue to serve that purpose because certain realities have asserted themselves. It is a costly ecological disaster plopped into the center of the city from a mental space where economic realities are an unwelcome constraint on the human spirit. And so, it has run its course. That is sad, but so it goes.

Honestly, what is the alternative to not demolising the Stage Center? Fencing it off and letting it sit there and just hope and pray someone eventually revives it? If someone valuable enough in the arts or the architecture community thought enough of the Stage Center to save it then it would have probably happened by now I would imagine.

BDP, perhaps you could control some of the hyperbole. I'm not pissed off that you like it, but your ranting about OKC not deserving something as original as Stage Center is melodramatic.

No doubt. I was just trying to match the "off with their heads!" type tone of those who hated it. But there is some truth to it. There is little originality here and what little there is rarely appreciated to any level where it is sustainable. We never seem to have much that many people here feel actually is worth saving. OKVision4U is probably right though, if it were on route 66 people may see value in it. That's probably the only reason people actually pulled off saving the Dome.


But,
1) even if Stage Center is not demolished and the tower goes somewhere else, you will be guaranteed to have ZERO notable performing arts venues left.
-----> Stage Center DIED in 2010 and is still hemorrhaging cash!
2) you will never have a blast at SC again.
3) lots of people give a crap here about SC, but not to the tune it'll take to fix it up and make it usable again.
Rant all you want but it will take a Butt Load of money to make it so you can enjoy SC the way it was made to be enjoyed again and no one seems to be ponying up that kind of cash.
Have you got any ideas on how to make it usable, again?

My comments are more about how it probably never should have been built here in the first place. I have already written the stage center off. And there is absolutely no way to make it feasible again, because it's just not that important to people here. In another place and another time, it might have a chance. But not now and certainly not in Oklahoma City.

There is little originality here and what little there is rarely appreciated to any level where it is sustainable.Try looking at NW 36 and Walker's northeast corner for an original building that has stood the test of time, or around NW 23 and Classen (I'm thinking of the Milk Bottle, not the dome, since you've already noticed the dome). There's a poured-concrete building on SW 59 a block or so east of May Avenue that was originally a residence but now houses a business; with its concrete roof, it withstood a tornado not long after it was built. The city does support original ideas; it just doesn't hang on to all of its mistakes.

No doubt. I was just trying to match the "off with their heads!" type tone of those who hated it. But there is some truth to it. There is little originality here and what little there is rarely appreciated to any level where it is sustainable. We never seem to have much that many people here feel actually is worth saving. OKVision4U is probably right though, if it were on route 66 people may see value in it. That's probably the only reason people actually pulled off saving the Dome.



My comments are more about how it probably never should have been built here in the first place. I have already written the stage center off. And there is absolutely no way to make it feasible again, because it's just not that important to people here. In another place and another time, it might have a chance. But not now and certainly not in Oklahoma City.

Well if another community thought that it was a better fit it could actually be disassembled and moved.

I really don't like to call out other posters, but I have read some of the things he's said about OKC on city-data as I am a very infrequent poster on there. Safe to say he despises this place.

Yes at one point after one of the tornadoes he started a thread along the lines of "why the hell does anyone live here". That thread was deleted so I could be remembering incorrectly, but that definitely left a bad taste in my mouth.

Yes at one point after one of the tornadoes he started a thread along the lines of "why the hell does anyone live here". That thread was deleted so I could be remembering incorrectly, but that definitely left a bad taste in my mouth.


I really don't like to call out other posters, but I have read some of the things he's said about OKC on city-data as I am a very infrequent poster on there. Safe to say he despises this place.

I said some things on City-Data that were in bad taste and came across very different from how I intended it after the tornado. I knew somebody here at OKCTalk would call me out on it sooner or later and I do apologize. I also created another thread apologizing on City-Data but that one got deleted before very many people saw it I think. Anyways, I am no longer on City-Data forums. I have to be honest, my past year of adjusting to OKC after moving from Charlotte has been very difficult, but much if not most of it is NOT because of OKC itself, but other issues I have going on that I didn't have when I was in Charlotte and it has made the transition very tough. Plus I don't think I adequately evaluated before moving what I would be losing and what I would be gaining by making the move. That negativity sometimes shows itself online especially on City-Data where OKC is not popular and it was easy to jump on the bashing bandwagon. For that I do apologize.

One-of-a-kind doesn't always equate to something worth keeping. Stage Center is a perfect example.

Stage Center is not worth keeping but in that site a 20-25 story building doesn't seem to be the right fit. If they want a 20-25 story building maybe they should have bought some property up around the Regency Tower. There are good places for 20-25 story buildings to be built but the Stage center site is not one of them. That is prime land and should be reserved for something similar to Devon tower.

^ this

I said some things on City-Data that were in bad taste and came across very different from how I intended it after the tornado. I knew somebody here at OKCTalk would call me out on it sooner or later and I do apologize. I also created another thread apologizing on City-Data but that one got deleted before very many people saw it I think. Anyways, I am no longer on City-Data forums. I have to be honest, my past year of adjusting to OKC after moving from Charlotte has been very difficult, but much if not most of it is NOT because of OKC itself, but other issues I have going on that I didn't have when I was in Charlotte and it has made the transition very tough. Plus I don't think I adequately evaluated before moving what I would be losing and what I would be gaining by making the move. That negativity sometimes shows itself online especially on City-Data where OKC is not popular and it was easy to jump on the bashing bandwagon. For that I do apologize.

Why is OKC not popular on City-Data? Not that it matters.

But why are you often such a downer about things happening in OKC?

Why is OKC not popular on City-Data? Not that it matters.

But why are you often such a downer about things happening in OKC?

As far as OKC goes on City-Data, the national forum is pretty much nothing but people parroting stereotypes. Most posters there are from the Northeast or the west coast and have little interest in "flyover country." The common stereotypes about OKC that date from the 1980s are proclaimed as fact any time the city is brought up in the national forums. In the Oklahoma section, most of the posters are Tulsa residents, so the forum leans heavily towards Tulsa and the posters there make sure everybody knows that Tulsa is ahead of OKC. They do sometimes make valid points - there are things Tulsa does better than OKC. However, many times they completely discount OKC's successes or areas where OKC may not quite match up with Tulsa but really isn't that far behind.

As for being a downer, I am not a downer on things happening in OKC - things that have been announced that is. Sometimes I am a downer on speculation that seems unrealistic.

I am on City Data from time to time and gotten in bitter sour fights with people defending OKC. Believe it or not, I have to date, received three death threats from people. I didn't bash their city, I just defended OKC. I specifically had a guy from Phoenix tell me that if ever came there, he'd be waiting for me outside the airport with a body bag. I even had one person tell me that the Devon tower was actually only 20 something stories and that Devon has somehow reflected rays or something like that, into the sky to make the Devon tower look bigger and they create an illusion in the building that makes people think they are higher up than they really are. A lot of that is just trolling, but I know for a fact there are moderators with agendas.

Funny enough, I posted a thread on there asking where you can find the most cougars(older women looking for younger men) and the best cities for them, and I had a moderator that told me Miami is the best place for that and he bought me a plane ticket(without asking or telling me he was going to do so), said he was going to show me where they were and told me I leave in like two weeks. I said, yeeeeaaaah, I don't really feel comfortable with that and I have things going on, but I appreciate it. . . . he didn't take it too kindly. Right after that, he deleted the thread and followed me around being an ass. I have had a few interesting rodeos on that site, trust me.

Anyways, I think bcrhis is a cool guy and has good intentions. He seems like he'd be cool to hang around, I just think coming from Charlotte which is a world class city, it is hard lower the bar a little bit with the current projects going on in OKC and accepting sh**ty grocery stores and retails developments and so on. Having lived in Dallas for 6 years is kind of the same way. You take things for granted and don't really realize it. Good news is, things are changing fast and OKC is really raising the bar fast, and I am willing to bet, after this new Memorial development comes in, we will be really close to securing a Krogers, Tom Thumb, Reasors, and a Harris Teeter. Exciting times here that's for sure!

I am on City Data from time to time and gotten in bitter sour fights with people defending OKC. Believe it or not, I have to date, received three death threats from people. I didn't bash their city, I just defended OKC. I specifically had a guy from Phoenix tell me that if ever came there, he'd be waiting for me outside the airport with a body bag. I even had one person tell me that the Devon tower was actually only 20 something stories and that Devon has somehow reflected rays or something like that, into the sky to make the Devon tower look bigger and they create an illusion in the building that makes people think they are higher up than they really are. A lot of that is just trolling, but I know for a fact there are moderators with agendas.

Funny enough, I posted a thread on there asking where you can find the most cougars(older women looking for younger men) and the best cities for them, and I had a moderator that told me Miami is the best place for that and he bought me a plane ticket(without asking or telling me he was going to do so), said he was going to show me where they were and told me I leave in like two weeks. I said, yeeeeaaaah, I don't really feel comfortable with that and I have things going on, but I appreciate it. . . . he didn't take it too kindly. Right after that, he deleted the thread and followed me around being an ass. I have a few interesting rodeos on that site, trust me.

Anyways, I think bcrhis is a cool guy and has good intentions. He seems like he'd be cool to hang around, I just think coming from Charlotte which is a world class city, it is hard lower the bar a little bit with the current projects going on in OKC and accepting sh**ty grocery stores and retails developments and so on. Having lived in Dallas for 6 years is kind of the same way. You take things for granted and don't really realize it. Good news is, things are changing fast and OKC is really raising the bar fast, and I am willing to bet, after this new Memorial development comes in, we will be really close to securing a Krogers, Tom Thumb, Reasors, and a Harris Teeter. Exciting times here that's for sure!

Holy **** this is funny.

Holy **** this is funny.Yeah, it was a very strange ordeal. That was about a year and a half ago; I kind of slowed down my visits after that.

Yeah, it was a very strange ordeal. That was about a year and a half ago; I kind of slowed down my visits after that.

Wait...which poster offered you this plane ticket...an inquiring friend is curious...

Wait...which poster offered you this plane ticket...an inquiring friend is curious...I can probably find out if you want me to. He was a moderator and that was the first time I have ever seen him on the site and obviously someone I have never met lol ;P

ps. . . you haven't ever offered anyone plane tickets on Citydata.com have you ;)

I am on City Data from time to time and gotten in bitter sour fights with people defending OKC. Believe it or not, I have to date, received three death threats from people. I didn't bash their city, I just defended OKC. I specifically had a guy from Phoenix tell me that if ever came there, he'd be waiting for me outside the airport with a body bag. I even had one person tell me that the Devon tower was actually only 20 something stories and that Devon has somehow reflected rays or something like that, into the sky to make the Devon tower look bigger and they create an illusion in the building that makes people think they are higher up than they really are. A lot of that is just trolling, but I know for a fact there are moderators with agendas.

Funny enough, I posted a thread on there asking where you can find the most cougars(older women looking for younger men) and the best cities for them, and I had a moderator that told me Miami is the best place for that and he bought me a plane ticket(without asking or telling me he was going to do so), said he was going to show me where they were and told me I leave in like two weeks. I said, yeeeeaaaah, I don't really feel comfortable with that and I have things going on, but I appreciate it. . . . he didn't take it too kindly. Right after that, he deleted the thread and followed me around being an ass. I have had a few interesting rodeos on that site, trust me.

Anyways, I think bcrhis is a cool guy and has good intentions. He seems like he'd be cool to hang around, I just think coming from Charlotte which is a world class city, it is hard lower the bar a little bit with the current projects going on in OKC and accepting sh**ty grocery stores and retails developments and so on. Having lived in Dallas for 6 years is kind of the same way. You take things for granted and don't really realize it. Good news is, things are changing fast and OKC is really raising the bar fast, and I am willing to bet, after this new Memorial development comes in, we will be really close to securing a Krogers, Tom Thumb, Reasors, and a Harris Teeter. Exciting times here that's for sure!

That is some of the stupidest trolling I have ever heard, you don't have to go in or near the building (or even that close to downtown) to get an impression of the size. You might be able to play some tricks with refraction in the glass to make your observation point seem slightly higher inside (well at least those that do not have a tower in their view), even some things that could fool an airplane at night as to the height (from a long distance and only if people on the ground are in on it, see WWII protection measures) but during the day there is nothing you can do to fool everyone on the ground across all the area it is visible from.

If that is some of the stupidest trolling I have ever heard, you don't have to go in or near the building (or even that close to downtown) to get an impression of the size.Yeah and the fact that me and him have exchanged messages for about 2 weeks and he kept on it, just made me wonder. I guess I am just as bad as he was for staying in it that long. Although, his username was Alabamajeepboy36 or something among those sorts and he lived in Atlanta, so what much can you expect.

plupan, I would stay as far away from that site as possible. Anyone offering to buy you an airline ticket somewhere isn't just wanting to prove a point to you about some city.

Yeah and the fact that me and him have exchanged messages for about 2 weeks and he kept on it, just made me wonder. I guess I am just as bad as he was for staying in it that long. Although, his username was Alabamajeepboy36 or something among those sorts and he lived in Atlanta, so what much can you expect.

Ugh. Loose nuts like him are always ruining the good there is in Alabama & Atlanta/Georgia.

Ugh. Loose nuts like him are always ruining the good there is in Alabama & Atlanta/Georgia.Yuup, I know exactly what you mean :)

So, the official announcement has been pushed back since the announcement of the sale of the property. I think we can assume that the tenant base will be more diverse than Enable/Enogex or not include them at all. This site will be complicated with the existing Stage Center and the expectations of everyone. Maybe they are holding out for more tenants or trying to get more to sign up before they can commit with financing.... It may be a good thing. If it turns into a 30 story tower instead of 20 I will be happy.

I am on City Data from time to time and gotten in bitter sour fights with people defending OKC. Believe it or not, I have to date, received three death threats from people. I didn't bash their city, I just defended OKC. I specifically had a guy from Phoenix tell me that if ever came there, he'd be waiting for me outside the airport with a body bag. I even had one person tell me that the Devon tower was actually only 20 something stories and that Devon has somehow reflected rays or something like that, into the sky to make the Devon tower look bigger and they create an illusion in the building that makes people think they are higher up than they really are. A lot of that is just trolling, but I know for a fact there are moderators with agendas.

Sorry to hear you had that experience. I had a few things of the like happen myself which is why I left the site. I was a pretty well respected poster on that site when I lived in Charlotte but when I posted I was moving to OKC I got flooded with hate DMs ranging from people telling me I was trailer trash for even considering a move to people sexually harassing me. It got to the point where it was cyberstalking so I DMed the admin and had him ban my account. It's irrational the kind of hatred most of those posters have for a place they probably have never even been.


Anyways, I think bcrhis is a cool guy and has good intentions. He seems like he'd be cool to hang around, I just think coming from Charlotte which is a world class city, it is hard lower the bar a little bit with the current projects going on in OKC and accepting sh**ty grocery stores and retails developments and so on. Having lived in Dallas for 6 years is kind of the same way. You take things for granted and don't really realize it. Good news is, things are changing fast and OKC is really raising the bar fast, and I am willing to bet, after this new Memorial development comes in, we will be really close to securing a Krogers, Tom Thumb, Reasors, and a Harris Teeter. Exciting times here that's for sure!

Thanks man. I want to clarify that as for retail, grocery, or what not I am sometimes vocal about it online but in person it's more of a minor annoyance, not something I spend a lot of time thinking about unless I am in a nasty Homeland or something. In the end, groceries are groceries whether they come from Wal-Mart or a flagship Harris Teeter. It's the same thing with retail developments. I definitely understand moving from a larger city to a smaller one there has to be a lowering of the bar, but many of the things I am vocal about wishing OKC had are things that our little sister up the turnpike has no problem getting, so it's not really a large city vs small city issue. It's more of a testimony as to how far this city fell pre-MAPS in virtually every sector and despite the monumental improvements in some areas, notably downtown, there are other "quality of life" areas where the city is still playing catch-up. I definitely agree with you that it will get there, it's just a matter of when.

I am on City Data from time to time and gotten in bitter sour fights with people defending OKC. Believe it or not, I have to date, received three death threats from people. I didn't bash their city, I just defended OKC. I specifically had a guy from Phoenix tell me that if ever came there, he'd be waiting for me outside the airport with a body bag. I even had one person tell me that the Devon tower was actually only 20 something stories and that Devon has somehow reflected rays or something like that, into the sky to make the Devon tower look bigger and they create an illusion in the building that makes people think they are higher up than they really are. A lot of that is just trolling, but I know for a fact there are moderators with agendas.

Funny enough, I posted a thread on there asking where you can find the most cougars(older women looking for younger men) and the best cities for them, and I had a moderator that told me Miami is the best place for that and he bought me a plane ticket(without asking or telling me he was going to do so), said he was going to show me where they were and told me I leave in like two weeks. I said, yeeeeaaaah, I don't really feel comfortable with that and I have things going on, but I appreciate it. . . . he didn't take it too kindly. Right after that, he deleted the thread and followed me around being an ass. I have had a few interesting rodeos on that site, trust me.

Anyways, I think bcrhis is a cool guy and has good intentions. He seems like he'd be cool to hang around, I just think coming from Charlotte which is a world class city, it is hard lower the bar a little bit with the current projects going on in OKC and accepting sh**ty grocery stores and retails developments and so on. Having lived in Dallas for 6 years is kind of the same way. You take things for granted and don't really realize it. Good news is, things are changing fast and OKC is really raising the bar fast, and I am willing to bet, after this new Memorial development comes in, we will be really close to securing a Krogers, Tom Thumb, Reasors, and a Harris Teeter. Exciting times here that's for sure!

I posted on City Data once years ago inquiring about some vacation info, got a few interesting but not terribly helpful replies, saw a few posts there about various cities with discussions similar to what you see here, but then went back a few years later and...well, as I recall, things got a little...odd.

Haven't been back.

Try looking at NW 36 and Walker's northeast corner for an original building that has stood the test of time, or around NW 23 and Classen (I'm thinking of the Milk Bottle, not the dome, since you've already noticed the dome). There's a poured-concrete building on SW 59 a block or so east of May Avenue that was originally a residence but now houses a business; with its concrete roof, it withstood a tornado not long after it was built.

I did acknowledge there is some originality here, just that there's not much of it. There's always the exception to the rule, but our MO has largely been to toss originality or uniqueness away.


The city does support original ideas; it just doesn't hang on to all of its mistakes.

Unfortunately, history does not support this claim. In fact, OKC has torn down enough structures to fill THREE volumes of books with photographs and postcards of destroyed gems. It's called The Vanished Splendor:

The vanished splendor: Postcard views of early Oklahoma City: Jim Edwards: 9780910453004: Amazon.com: Books (http://www.amazon.com/The-vanished-splendor-Postcard-Oklahoma/dp/0910453004)

I highly recommend anyone take a look at them if you can find them. Oklahoma City was actually once home to a lot of amazing structures that the community ultimately viewed as mistakes and were torn down. Personally, when I view the old images of OKC, the only mistake I see is letting so much of it be destroyed. Granted, all major cities have lost a lot of cool buildings, but the net affect was near devastating in OKC and our urban landscape is still very much riddled with scars from this disposable attitude towards the city. Unfortunately, while it has gotten better in some parts of the city, there is still a prevailing indifference to unique and/or historical structures that borders on contempt especially when a major development is concerned.

Clearly, Stage Center was a mistake. Something more familiar and cheaper would have been much, much safer here, especially given the building's purpose. Now, I realize my experience with and opinion of SC was much better than most people's, so I think it was a very cool place. But, yes, it was a mistake for Oklahoma City. I think that most architects have gotten the message that you just don't do something like that here. If you want it to last here, it better be more like something already found somewhere else. Do not take risks.

self-imposed Gibbs slap to back of head

Quote from the business chat


10:03
Comment From Pat
SC site, Your best guess on over or under 30 floors......Thanks in advance
10:03
NewsOKSports: Close to 30, and let's just leave it at that.

Quote from the business chat

A tower would only need to be 29 stories to be at least as tall as Chase, assuming an average floor height of 17'.

Well, not quite but close to chase. We'd need 17 feet 2.9 inches per floor.

But I'm still hoping for 40 floors/680+ feet, 2nd tallest in the state.

A tower would only need to be 29 stories to be at least as tall as Chase, assuming an average floor height of 17'.

I'm hoping close to 30 = 31 or 32 or 33.......i'm the ultimate optimist.

The crown of any tall building has much to do with it's overall height.

Very few have flat roofs these days, ala Chase, SandRidge, Oklahoma Tower, etc.

Rainey Williams stated this building would be 'world class'. Hopefully this means a nice tall crown of some kind.

This project has continued to sink down the depth chart of downtown development...

This project has continued to sink down the depth chart of downtown development...

If it's not the 2nd tallest building in downtown then they need to scrap it and sell the property to someone that can really build a world class skyscraper. Why would anyone want to use that prime real estate to build a small building next to the tallest one makes no sense to me. Build the thing somewhere that fits better,like around the Regency tower area. They city should require the Stage center site to have at least a 40 story building.

I am hoping for something like Frost Tower in Austin. Even if it comes up a little short on height, it can still be an impressive development if it a good piece of architecture rather than a glass box.

If it's not the 2nd tallest building in downtown then they need to scrap it and sell the property to someone that can really build a world class skyscraper. Why would anyone want to use that prime real estate to build a small building next to the tallest one makes no sense to me. Build the thing somewhere that fits better,like around the Regency tower area. They city should require the Stage center site to have at least a 40 story building.Agreed

Just for grins and giggles, how would you propose the city step in and mandate that someone build a structure of a certain height on private property?

zoning laws...

zoning laws...

Zoning laws could negate buildings that are too tall but it would be rare for buildings that are too short.

I mean, I don't think it would be a reasonable thing to do, but you could make it such that all new buildings in the CBD have to be x-stories. It would be a net bad decision of course.

I'd also be disappointed if this building ends up being shorter than Chase. I could actually be understanding though if the building lines the entire block (Walker/Sheridan/Hudson/California) and was at least 10 stories high.

Whatever the case, if it's going to be worthy of replacing the Stage Center, it needs to carry it's architectural weight by departing from the run of the mill tower…as much as I love Devon Tower, it is still fairly ho-hum architecturally.

I mean, I don't think it would be a reasonable thing to do, but you could make it such that all new buildings in the CBD have to be x-stories. It would be a net bad decision of course.

I agree. Enacting such a law would likely just kill development. Hopefully we will know something soon.

Just for grins and giggles, how would you propose the city step in and mandate that someone build a structure of a certain height on private property?

You should look in to Form Based codes - that essentially says new buildings should be in scale with existing buildings and minimum and maximum heights are determined by the width of the street they are on. Of course, Form Based codes regulate a lot of other stuff as they replace land-use based zoning codes.

Here is short slide show to introduce form-based codes.

What Are Form Based-Codes? | Form-Based Codes Institute (http://www.formbasedcodes.org/what-are-form-based-codes-0)

Not long ago, Seattle passed a zoning law to limit skyscrapers to a maximum of 38 floors. This was to limit the strain on resources.

JTF, anything in that style of coding that would permit the city to mandate that the owner of Lot X must build the city's second tallest structure or sell off the property to someone who will? My comment on mandating height was in response to this notion:



If it's not the 2nd tallest building in downtown then they need to scrap it and sell the property to someone that can really build a world class skyscraper. ... city should require the Stage center (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Stage+Center) site to have at least a 40 story building.

This project has continued to sink down the depth chart of downtown development...

Gosh, your throne in Cleveland must be so magnificent. Please, enlighten us on the economy there? Remember, you can't fool me. I just moved from Philly. I know the state of the economy there. I also have a handful of friends that are from there. Let's just say they consider Cleveland a cesspool. Economically downtrodden and a city that is losing more than I gains.

They do still cheer for all Cleveland teams, though. Ironically, another aspect of the city that seems destined for failure at all times. Enjoy your elitist mentality. It sure is an awesome aspect to this board.

Gosh, your throne in Cleveland must be so magnificent. Please, enlighten us on the economy there? Remember, you can't fool me. I just moved from Philly. I know the state of the economy there. I also have a handful of friends that are from there. Let's just say they consider Cleveland a cesspool. Economically downtrodden and a city that is losing more than I gains.

They do still cheer for all Cleveland teams, though. Ironically, another aspect of the city that seems destined for failure at all times. Enjoy your elitist mentality. It sure is an awesome aspect to this board.

Huh? Lol

Gosh, your throne in Cleveland must be so magnificent. Please, enlighten us on the economy there? Remember, you can't fool me. I just moved from Philly. I know the state of the economy there. I also have a handful of friends that are from there. Let's just say they consider Cleveland a cesspool. Economically downtrodden and a city that is losing more than I gains.

They do still cheer for all Cleveland teams, though. Ironically, another aspect of the city that seems destined for failure at all times. Enjoy your elitist mentality. It sure is an awesome aspect to this board.

Cleveland is one of the few US cities I would refuse to live in under any circumstance. I actually had the opportunity to move there from Charlotte and I turned it down.

You lived in Charlotte?!?!

Huh? Lol

Coov23, this response confirms what I believe too^^