I was just in Krakow, Poland and they are building condos/apartments above 17th century buildings. I took a photo of it.... I don't know much about the project, but it looked really cool in person. Maybe our city could do this at Stage Center or the Preftakes block....4481

It is right on the river, so it is very expensive real estate for Krakow.

I loved Krakow (other than getting a drinking in public ticket). I thought it felt so much like OKC in terms of the "air". Obviously it's very different for many reasons, but if OKC had a sister city in Europe, I would chose Krakow of the places that I've been.

I agree, but I think Warsaw has more in common with us. The people are great and they have experienced tragedy worse than us. They understand that rebuilding after devistation is the best way to overcome and move forward. They were devastated after WWII beyond comprehension with the Nazis destoying every document and building that had any significance to the Polish people. They are very warm and friendly and made me feel at home.

I was only in Warsaw for 30 hours, so I didn't really get enough to compare the 2. Certainly Warsaw feels more like OKC development wise (I mean, we probably have a similar average building-age).

I think Krakow felt more like OKC to me because it's a relatively passed-over/forgotten city in the whole of Europe, about the same population as OKC (1.4M in the metro-area), is located in the south of its country, and has very simple people. It's actually because Warszawa was so obliterated by war that I struggle to relate to it. I certainly think the bombing was a horrible thing...but it really is nothing compared to what Warsaw went though. And that's not to make light of the bombing, on the contrary, it's to try and begin to understand the annihilation of that city.

...But since this is a tower thread, I think that we can certainly agree that if a tower were going up in Poland, it would be going up in Warszawa, and I do think Warszawa would be a good city for OKC to hold up as an inspiration...well, minus the soviet tract housing.

Warszawa skyline, for those of you unfamiliar.

4483

I was only in Warsaw for 30 hours, so I didn't really get enough to compare the 2. Certainly Warsaw feels more like OKC development wise (I mean, we probably have a similar average building-age).

I think Krakow felt more like OKC to me because it's a relatively passed-over/forgotten city in the whole of Europe, about the same population as OKC (1.4M in the metro-area), is located in the south of its country, and has very simple people. It's actually because Warszawa was so obliterated by war that I struggle to relate to it. I certainly think the bombing was a horrible thing...but it really is nothing compared to what Warsaw went though. And that's not to make light of the bombing, on the contrary, it's to try and begin to understand the annihilation of that city.

...But since this is a tower thread, I think that we can certainly agree that if a tower were going up in Poland, it would be going up in Warszawa, and I do think Warszawa would be a good city for OKC to hold up as an inspiration...well, minus the soviet tract housing.

Warszawa skyline, for those of you unfamiliar.

4483

For the most part, I really dislike the design of modern skyscrapers in Europe. I much prefer what the US or Asia designs.

I posted these two proposed towers in Warsaw in the Mystery Tower thread a few months ago.

http://czarnota.org/gallery/albums/2011/2011_02_25_-_001_-_Warszawa_ul_Towarowa_-_wizualizacja_Warsaw_Spire_-_zrodlo_internet.jpg

http://www.peruarki.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/Lilium_Tower_peruarki_4.jpg

For the most part, I really dislike the design of modern skyscrapers in Europe. I much prefer what the US or Asia designs.

Wien has a really cool pair going up right now:

448444854486

I posted these two proposed towers in Warsaw in the Mystery Tower thread a few months ago.

http://www.peruarki.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/Lilium_Tower_peruarki_4.jpg

I could do without the guy in the speedo in the pool picture, but whatever... When in Rome...

I was just in Krakow, Poland and they are building condos/apartments above 17th century buildings. I took a photo of it.... I don't know much about the project, but it looked really cool in person. Maybe our city could do this at Stage Center or the Preftakes block....4481

It is right on the river, so it is very expensive real estate for Krakow.

Back in the ... what? '80's? there was a plan to add on to the Bizzell Library at OU with a huge structure that would perch above the historic structure, leaving it intact, but dwarfed by the squatting hulk of a death star that would tower above it.
Personally, I don't think that there is any way to have a new tower co-exist with the Stage Center structure.

The Gazette article states that the demolition permit will be sought in November. I thought we might have gotten a glimpse of the plans before then, but maybe that is when things will be revealed.

The Gazette article states that the demolition permit will be sought in November. I thought we might have gotten a glimpse of the plans before then, but maybe that is when things will be revealed.

Maybe, if he's smart. OKC's demolition ordinance doesn't require the developer to provide any indication of what will happen after demolition, so legally, he doesn't have to say, or show, anything about what will come. However, we all know that a request to demolish such a structure better be accompanied by some type of higher and better use.

OKC's demolition ordinance doesn't require the developer to provide any indication of what will happen after demolition....

"Well, there's your problem"

"Well, there's your problem"

It's not because staff didn't try to add it in. Legal advised us that there is not way to tie a developer's hands to what would come next. I understand the sentiment on both sides... legal rules are annoying sometimes.

It's not because staff didn't try to add it in. Legal advised us that there is not way to tie a developer's hands to what would come next. I understand the sentiment on both sides... legal rules are annoying sometimes.

and individual property rights

and individual property rights

Property rights are a sticky, sticky issue. Just look at the Vacant and Abandoned Property study. Is it ones' right to cause other's property values to decline? http://www.okc.gov/planning/plans+studies/Resources/OKC_VABs_Final.pdf

Property rights are a sticky, sticky issue. Just look at the Vacant and Abandoned Property study. Is it ones' right to cause other's property values to decline? http://www.okc.gov/planning/plans+studies/Resources/OKC_VABs_Final.pdf

I agree it is a sticky issue and that is why there is zoning laws and code enforcement. When going through the study, a lot of the issues would be resolved with code enforcement that requires the exterior maintenance and the securing of the location. If the owner doesn't comply, then the city contracts it out and it gets done. The owner is sent a bill. If they don't pay it, then the property goes to tax sale. If the city ends up with he property, then they can work with non profits to rehab and sold to low income families or start up businesses.

But this thread is about the stage center which currently is a vacant building similar to the ones being addressed in the report. (They had a picture of the old Best Buy as an example even though the building is being marketed for use). The property owner wants to demolish the property that he owns. I would like to see the stage center saved. The building was on the market and available to be purchased. If there was a viable use for it, then the opportunity was there. The building owner bought it and spent a lot of money on it. If he wants to tear it down and then put the empty lot up for sale or sit on it for awhile......then he should be allowed to do that as long as he maintains and secures it. I own property near the stage center and it isn't his responsibility to raise or lower my property values. From an economic point of view, it is in his best interest as well as my best interest for us to make productive use of the properties. The market will determine the best use within the zoning guidelines.

Remember.....the government's ideas of best use for property led to many great buildings being torn down in the 70s/80's for urban renewal and to build a really cool downtown mall that never happened. When the economic/market timing was right...a private company came in and took that parking lot and built a really nice tall building.

Steve said that we should hear more on the tower this Winter.

Wow...that's way past the 90 day mark. (seeing as winter doesn't even start until a few days before Christmas and we're still technically in summer).

Boo on Rainey Williams. He should have purchased the property and refused questions. He doesn't owe anybody information, but he also ought not put out information he can't stand behind. It's just silly and pointless. Amateurish.

Multimillion dollar real estate deals don't go on your schedule. That's crazy to slam him when you likely know a fraction of the details.

Wow...that's way past the 90 day mark. (seeing as winter doesn't even start until a few days before Christmas and we're still technically in summer).

Boo on Rainey Williams. He should have purchased the property and refused questions. He doesn't owe anybody information, but he also ought not put out information he can't stand behind. It's just silly and pointless. Amateurish.

This is absolutely ridiculous! He’s not ready to announce, no big deal. He will announce when he is ready with a plan he is certain will happen. The best part about this is, if Rainey would not have announced his plans, however vague they may be, you would likely be ripping Steve instead since his timeline would have been off.

I'm hoping the delay has to do with lots of interest by tenants and that it will end up being taller.

Multimillion dollar real estate deals don't go on your schedule. That's crazy to slam him when you likely know a fraction of the details.

That was his schedule...not mine...

This is absolutely ridiculous! He’s not ready to announce, no big deal. He will announce when he is ready with a plan he is certain will happen. The best part about this is, if Rainey would not have announced his plans, however vague they may be, you would likely be ripping Steve instead since his timeline would have been off.

Absolutely wrong.

Steve doesn't own the property. Steve isn't putting the plans together.

Doesn't this go along with the Stage Center demolition timeline? Everyone was saying it might soften the blow once people know what the building will be replaced with.

Oh my word. This is so... maddening.

Ack.

This is the project for whom 'now' never arrives. It's always later. Always later.

Sigh. Oh well, more waiting. Let's just hope that by the end of winter we're not hearing "should get the details sometime this summer".... :(

Doesn't this go along with the Stage Center demolition timeline? Everyone was saying it might soften the blow once people know what the building will be replaced with.

If we're to believe both the Gazette and Steve, the demo permit will be sought out in November, so announcements on the tower will be at least 3 weeks after the fact (assuming a rigid definition of winter).

I'm hoping the delay has to do with lots of interest by tenants and that it will end up being taller.

Unfortunately, the opposite scenario would also cause a delay.

That was his schedule...not mine...


Absolutely wrong.

Steve doesn't own the property. Steve isn't putting the plans together.

Hey now... Don't take it out on Rainey just because you are pissed about the "one that got away." I seriously doubt it's HIS fault....

:lol2:

(inside joke here... nothing to see here, folks)

Hey now... Don't take it out on Rainey just because you are pissed about the "one that got away." I seriously doubt it's HIS fault....

:lol2:

(inside joke here... nothing to see here, folks)

No...but "The tower that got away" is going to be his fault!

:lol2:

Well.played sir.

Man...Some of you guys get so angry when your taco doesn't arrive on time.

No...but "The tower that got away" is going to be his fault!
:lol2:

Well.played sir.

When you're right, you're right... Carry on...

Slow down.
Focus on what's here to experience presently.
There is no need to rush.
This doesn't have to be a speed race to the finish line.

Good advice on a variety of fronts.

Man...Some of you guys get so angry when your taco doesn't arrive on time.

I just think it shows a lack of foresight when you throw something out there without having plans to follow through. It reminds me of Washington...and we all get plenty of that as it is.

I'm still 98% (the same as I've been) that a tower will be built, and not losing sleep over the thing.

Lack of foresight? I'm sorry but it is obvious you have no idea how these things work.

Projects of this magnitude take a year or 2 of planning, at least a year of actual design, and then another 3 years for construction. And you are complaining about a 30-60 day delay and how they are somehow not "following through"?

And none of this time frame accounts for lining up financing, marketing, demolition, etc.

Lack of foresight? I'm sorry but it is obvious you have no idea how these things work.

Projects of this magnitude take a year or 2 of planning, at least a year of actual design, and then another 3 years for construction. And you are complaining about a 30-60 day delay and how they are somehow not "following through"?

And none of this time frame accounts for lining up financing, marketing, demolition, etc.

I'm afraid you haven't read what I've said.

The problem is that I didn't say we could know in 90 days. It wasn't even Steve who said such a thing. It was the developer who said “Our goal is to in 90 days be able to announce the anchor tenant and release the preliminary site design work,” Williams said. “We are very excited to announce our plans for this property, which we think has tremendous potential.”

So the first goal has been missed. Excellent. Please tell me how that is *not* lack of foresight.

Again...it's not a complicated solution: Just don't say anything. Buy the property, get your plans in order and when you're ready to announce, then announce.

ON EDIT: will have been missed.

No, I understood exactly what you meant. And my point was in the grand scheme of things, an extra month or two is not a big deal. So what that he said it was his goal to get it out in 90 days? It likely was. He was giving a quote to a journalist, not testifying under oath in court.

This will likely be a $500+ million project when its all said and done. You have absolutely no idea how many moving parts are involved in this. Heck I really don't know either. But I do know that if one small thing doesn't come out the way you want it, whether that be permits, design process, etc., yes it can effect the entire process.

I was not being snide when I said these things do not conform to anyone's schedule, that includes the people designing or building the project. At this point, I will likely not convince you otherwise so we will just agree to disagree. I have no doubt this will be an excellent project for the city so if I need to wait a bit extra than so be it.

I haven't posted on this thread in a while, but I will say this, time goes by fast, so:

"Stay calm, and tower on!"

Stage Center demolition not expected on DDRC agenda until December | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2013/09/25/mf-stage-center-real-estate/)

Stage Center demolition not expected on DDRC agenda until December | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2013/09/25/mf-stage-center-real-estate/)

Please note that basically nothing but the headline comes up with the link. Can you provide anything additional?

Stage Center demolition not expected on DDRC agenda until December | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2013/09/25/mf-stage-center-real-estate/)

How about no one create a countdown clock so we'll be guaranteed some good news come December, k?

Wow.
This thread fell to the second page...thank goodness I got here when I did. :)

Wow.
This thread fell to the second page...thank goodness I got here when I did. :)

The official hard announcement keeps getting pushed back, fact is, people are losing interest. Now they are saying this Winter, next thing you know, it will be early next year, I don't care anymore, it will be announced, when it's announced.

The official hard announcement keeps getting pushed back, fact is, people are losing interest. Now they are saying this Winter, next thing you know, it [B]will be early next year, I don't care anymore, it will be announced, when it's announced.

Isn't early next year ' this winter' ?

My cousin (works at Devon) had a discussion with one of the site managers of the Devon Tower construction a couple of weeks back and is very clued in to the downtown happenings. Take it for what it's worth, he was told the Stage Center tower would be 20-25 stories in height, but didn't share who the main tenant would be. It got interesting when discussing the Preftakes (spelling) site, he confirmed a deal is very much in the closing stages and MIGHT be announced this winter (said the info is very delicate, wouldn't want to mess up a possible deal this late in the game). Believe it or not, the source told him it was a bank (currently without a footprint in state) wanting to set up shop with a new 40 story tower (he gave me a possible name, but again, said it's apparently highly classified..ugh) they would inhabit the upper half floors while leasing out the bottom. Again, this is third hand info, so it might be safe to to take with a grain of salt, but my cousin said this guy knows his stuff. We shall see.

It got interesting when discussing the Preftakes (spelling) site, he confirmed a deal is very much in the closing stages and MIGHT be announced this winter (said the info is very delicate, wouldn't want to mess up a possible deal this late in the game). Believe it or not, the source told him it was a bank from out of state wanting to set up shop with a new 40 story tower (he gave me a possible name, but again, said it's apparently highly classified..ugh) they would inhabit the upper half floors while leasing out the bottom.

I won't get my hopes up - but a bank relo would be huge.

.... it was a bank from out of state wanting to set up shop with a new 40 story tower .....

Holy cow! I don't know how realistic that is. Sounds kind of far fetched. But that would be awesome if true.

I won't get my hopes up - but a bank relo would be huge.

Let me rephrase, not so much a relocation, as it is a national bank wanting to have a presence in our state is how it was described to me. Hence, they would be the main tenant in a tower that may have spec apsects to it.

Let me rephrase, not so much a relocation, as it is a national bank wanting to have a presence in our state is how it was described to me. Hence, they would be the main tenant in a tower that may have spec apsects to it.

Cool rumor. It should be put in the Preftakes thread.

Or the Mystery Tower thread. Id like to request to keep this thread as factual as possible and leave excess speculation to the speculation threads.

Or the Mystery Tower thread. Id like to request to keep this thread as factual as possible and leave excess speculation to the speculation threads.

I second that. Motion to move forward, Pete (with your cut and paste abilities as a fine administrator)? :wink:

"Or the Mystery Tower thread. Id like to request to keep this thread as factual as possible and leave excess speculation to the speculation threads."

LOL we could sum up all the "facts" about this tower in less then 50 words, let alone 19 pages. This shouldn't even be a thread until there are actual renderings.

Believe it or not, the source told him it was a bank (currently without a footprint in state) wanting to set up shop with a new 40 story tower (he gave me a possible name, but again, said it's apparently highly classified..ugh) they would inhabit the upper half floors while leasing out the bottom. Again, this is third hand info, so it might be safe to to take with a grain of salt, but my cousin said this guy knows his stuff. We shall see.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Wells Fargo Bank make a push into the OKC area. They already have WF Financial, WF Advisors and WF Home Mortgage and that is what I can think of. Fifth Third Bank is another one I could see making a push into Oklahoma. They don't have any locations in Texas which surprises me but the economy in Oklahoma is so much better than everywhere else in the nation. Ok, back to your regularly scheduled program.

I don't get the sense that a bank who is not here already would be making a push by headlining a brand-new 40-story tower.

The only real bank candidates I could see being possibilites: Chase, BoA nationally or BoOK or Banc First. MidFirst seems pretty clearly out of the running.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Wells Fargo Bank make a push into the OKC area. They already have WF Financial, WF Advisors and WF Home Mortgage and that is what I can think of. Fifth Third Bank is another one I could see making a push into Oklahoma. They don't have any locations in Texas which surprises me but the economy in Oklahoma is so much better than everywhere else in the nation. Ok, back to your regularly scheduled program.
I have heard through friends that are in banking profession in the OKC area that Wells Fargo is trying to establish a bank prescence in OKC metropolitan area.

I am surprised Wells Fargo isn't in Oklahoma. They are in all the states surrounding us except for Missouri.

I know there are a few Bank of the West locations in OKC, wouldn't surprise me if they expanded some. They have a pretty large presence here in Denver, they have no locations in Texas.

I know there are a few Bank of the West locations in OKC, wouldn't surprise me if they expanded some. They have a pretty large presence here in Denver, they have no locations in Texas.

I've seen some job ads recently for Bank of the West, but you wouldn't know it was Bank of the West from the name listed on the ad. They were for BNP Paribas -- a parent / holding company.

I have heard through friends that are in banking profession in the OKC area that Wells Fargo is trying to establish a bank prescence in OKC metropolitan area.

WF would actually make sense. They have opened a sizable office on top of leadership square and have been focusing on commercial banking.

I have heard through friends that are in banking profession in the OKC area that Wells Fargo is trying to establish a bank prescence in OKC metropolitan area.

Go back and read my Preftakes mystery tower post and now you're on to something ;)

Back in 2003, I worked for Wells Fargo Financial and we had people all the time coming in to cash their Wells Fargo Bank checks. They didn't understand why we wouldn't cash them and didn't want to drive to Wichita (3 hours away) to cash a small check.

Again, WF has such a huge presence in the state in everything other than WF Bank. My cousin is a SVP for Wells Fargo Investors LLC and he is surprised there is not a WF Bank in OKC especially.