Racing to the bottom won't improve retail in OKC.

At first no it won't.

Someone is going to have to break the fortress WalMart has built out of the OKC market. The only way to break down that wall is to compete on price which means offering a similar product. When walmarts' monopoly is broken up, it will be much easier for higher quality retailers to set up shop because they are facing a larger variety of smaller market shares instead of 2-3 large market share players. It won't be overnight.

Here's an excellent video on Wal-Mart. Definitely worth a watch.

Something Wall Mart This Way Comes (Season 8, Episode 9) - Full Episode Player - South Park Studios (http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s08e09-something-wall-mart-this-way-comes)

If this is true I'd shop there for no other reason. Might be a god place to stock up on staples.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1148898_710874212271426_2070220635_n.png

Racing to the bottom won't improve retail in OKC.


Could you please explain in some sort of detail why a store like WinCo perhaps coming into the market is "racing to the bottom?" Thank you.

Aldi is at a level well below even Wal-Mart, nothing at all to get excited about.

All these grocery store posts are getting old, but I had to respond to this.

Aldi's are clean, staff is friendly, prices are great, to say they are at a level "well below even WalMart" is simply untrue.

All these grocery store posts are getting old, but I had to respond to this.

Aldi's are clean, staff is friendly, prices are great, to say they are at a level "well below even WalMart" is simply untrue.

So Stillwater shouldn't be too disappointed that just an Aldi's is about ready to open there?

Here's a Time article on Winco: WinCo: Low-Key, Low-Cost Grocer Called 'Wal-Mart's Worst Nightmare' | TIME.com (http://business.time.com/2013/08/07/meet-the-low-key-low-cost-grocery-chain-being-called-wal-marts-worst-nightmare/?iid=obnetwork)

So Stillwater shouldn't be too disappointed that just an Aldi's is about ready to open there?

No, not at all. Stillwater should be glad a new company wanted to locate there. More choices are better.
ALDI - The TRUTH about ALDI (http://aldi.us/us/html/company/18187_ENU_HTML.htm?WT.z_src=main)

You know what the main difference between WinCo (and HEB) and Walmart is? WinCo is privately held and Walmart is public, just like Hobby Lobby and HEB, WinCo can operate in a different business world than Walmart because they don't have Wall Street, mutual funds, institutional investors, shareholders, etc. to satisfy every day (the financial world no longer cares about quarters). A very successful privately held company can operate in a different way in terms of pay, benefits and expansion than a public company that is always under intense scrutiny from the financial pundits and shareholders with unrealistic expectations for growth. A large part of Walmart's issues in the public realm are driven by the fact they are a public corporation.

The only time that I would consider taking a company public would be if I was looking to cash out and get out.

If this is true I'd shop there for no other reason. Might be a god place to stock up on staples.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1148898_710874212271426_2070220635_n.png

I imagine that a better god place to stock up on staples would be Office Depot . . . or Staples.
and i'll bet you a dollar (that is, four Aldi cart parking deposits) that the girl in the ad doesn't actually work at WinCo.

But if she does, that is a bonus! :wink:

Could you please explain in some sort of detail why a store like WinCo perhaps coming into the market is "racing to the bottom?" Thank you.

Getting lower prices at the expense of service and style is racing to the bottom. Publix is our local grocery chain and it is a full service grocery store, complete with custom butcher service - and it is less expensive than Walmart also. To echo bluedog's comment, Publix is also a private company.

Walmart is not the cheapest store in town and low price is not the main reason people shop there. If you are a true bargain shopper you hit several stores to pick up on the sale items. However, that is not always feasible to do for most people. The main reason people shop there is the ability to one stop shop. There are very few places where you can pick up just about everything on your shopping list like you can at Walmart.

Walmart can save you travel time where it does not save you money. For instance if you need a tail light lamp, trash bags, weed-eater line, milk, aspirin, tube socks and batteries your more likely to visit Walmart because you probably don't have the time to make all the stops to Home Depot, CVS, Autozone and Target.

Often times the cheapest price is not always the best deal this at any store not just Walmart. I often find my hygiene items are cheaper at Target because they sell the larger sizes. Body Wash at Walmart is usually 12-16 oz while at Target they are 20-24oz. Paper products are always cheaper at Crest and uber expensive at Walmart.

At the end of the day it's a trade off regardless of where you shop the difference is usually negligible. Visiting several stores will eat your savings in gas. Walmart sells smaller sizes and smaller selections. Target has larger sizes, wider selection and the prices are slightly higher. Crest prices depend on the location and what moves at each particular store and what doesn't.

I predict Winco will be just like every other store. They will offer incredible prices until they get a steady customer base established then they will price just like everybody else in the area. The grocery business in OKC has a razor thin profit margin that is why you see somethings on sale dirt cheap one week, then the next week it's a normal price. I noticed the meat prices at Crest on Douglas in MWC tonight were sky high. At the end of the month, everything will be on sale because of Labor Day Weekend.

The important thing to note is that any grocery store is going to take business away from all competitors not just Walmart.

Getting lower prices at the expense of service and style is racing to the bottom. Publix is our local grocery chain and it is a full service grocery store, complete with custom butcher service - and it is less expensive than Walmart also. To echo bluedog's comment, Publix is also a private company.
That is the strange thing about Wall Street and investors, if Walmart tried to emulate the stores and service of Publix or Kroger they would get hammered by the "analysts" for wasting money. They are definitely held to a different standard than other public grocery/merchandisers by those people. It is almost a damned if they do, damned if they don't battle between the public and investment worlds.

If this is true I'd shop there for no other reason. Might be a god place to stock up on staples.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1148898_710874212271426_2070220635_n.png

$11 is great for part time work if your like the average grocery store worker your are either a high school or college student. However, if you work full time there is a way to be screwed as an employee making $11 an hour or more (32 hour work week). Many higher paying retail and grocery stores are now paying more thanks to the 32 hour work week. The 32 hour work week saves companies money, time and headaches on so many levels.

1. You can schedule 4 6 hour shifts a day. (5 Day work week or three day work week on 12 hour shifts)
2. You can still have a five day work week.
3. Overtime is non existent.
4. Most employees will be fighting to pick an extra 8 hours to make 40 for the week.. So time off and call ins are breeze to manage.
5. You can schedule a 30 min lunch or two fifteen minute breaks and still be legal.
6. You can schedule the bulk of your workforce between 6am and Midnight. Run a skeleton crew from Midnight to 6am.

In the end, you have a stronger workforce, more people on board and still get out the door as a company who runs a 40 hour work week.

The health insurance is only great if you are the one and only person on the plan. The minute you add your family it sky rockets. A person making $12 an hour is suddenly making $8 or $9 after insurance is taken from the check. That is why if I had my way the employer would be out of the equation. You should be able to find health insurance on your own just like you do your homeowners and car insurance. The rates would drastically drop because the network would disappear and you could choose your own docs and hospitals just like you choose repairman and body shops. Basic services like office visits, x-rays and labs would be cheaply priced because of competition. Hospital services would also drop because you would know the price your paying out the door before you even put on the paper gown. The only thing I believe insurance should be used for is for emergency illness or injury care. Everything else should be paid out of pocket just like you do for car repairs and oil changes. You shop around for the best price. If you had to submit everything to State Farm or Allstate like you do to Blue Cross and Blue Shield oil changes would be $200 and transmissions and engines would be $50,000-$100,000. Anyway back on topic.

Getting lower prices at the expense of service and style is racing to the bottom. Publix is our local grocery chain and it is a full service grocery store, complete with custom butcher service - and it is less expensive than Walmart also. To echo bluedog's comment, Publix is also a private company.

Same way with Wegmans back east. Great stores, privately held.

Company Overview*|*Wegmans (http://www.wegmans.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?categoryId=281152&storeId=10052&catalogId=10002&langId=-1)

That is the strange thing about Wall Street and investors, if Walmart tried to emulate the stores and service of Publix or Kroger they would get hammered by the "analysts" for wasting money. They are definitely held to a different standard than other public grocery/merchandisers by those people. It is almost a damned if they do, damned if they don't battle between the public and investment worlds.

Winn Dixie was Publix's main competitor here in Florida but they were a public company and just couldn't keep up. They tried laying people off (a Wall Street preferred solution) then closing stores to save money (another Wall Street favorite) - then they went bankrupt, and then they got bought out by Bi-Lo (another private company).

It is hard for companies to make long term plans and have long term strategies when their stock is traded in nanoseconds by people who really couldn't care less about the actual company, and are only concerned with what the stock price will do over the next 1/1000 of a second.

I've always viewed the stock market in the same light as a casino. If you know what you are doing you can make money. Every dollar invested is not always going to payout. If you don't play with caution you will lose more money than you can ever win. The key to gambling is knowing when to walk away from game. The stock market is exactly the same. You have to know what to invest in and what to stay away from. I don't think many of today's investors respect the concept of losing. They think every dollar invested should earn a profit. That way of thinking is leading many businesses large and small to go private or stay private. It's easier to work with private investors than it is to work with people that demand payout for every dollar invested. Most private investors are not caught up with making money every second. What matters is that a profit will payout in the long term. Often times it's better to make a several thousand later than to make a few hundred every day. For most businesses ideas and concepts need time to spread their wings and fly. They don't always take off from the start. Every major business out there today had it's slow start. That slow start lead to many years of success.

Getting lower prices at the expense of service and style is racing to the bottom. Publix is our local grocery chain and it is a full service grocery store, complete with custom butcher service - and it is less expensive than Walmart also. To echo bluedog's comment, Publix is also a private company.

Thanks for the response, but I must confess I still don't get the "racing to the bottom" comment. Have you ever stepped foot in a WinCo before? How do you know you are not getting good service (and style) with them if you've never shopped them before? By simply watching a three minute Youtube video?? I'm not saying WinCo is the greatest supermarket ever, but I've actually shopped the store and find it rather silly for anyone to judge the merits of any store without ever shopping or stepping foot in one.

I do agree with you about Publix. I'm VERY familiar with them and have shopped several of their locations in Florida.

Thanks for the response, but I must confess I still don't get the "racing to the bottom" comment. Have you ever stepped foot in a WinCo before? How do you know you are not getting good service (and style) with them if you've never shopped them before? By simply watching a three minute Youtube video?? I'm not saying WinCo is the greatest supermarket ever, but I've actually shopped the store and find it rather silly for anyone to judge the merits of any store without ever shopping or stepping foot in one.

I do agree with you about Publix. I'm VERY familiar with them and have shopped several of their locations in Florida.

What OKC needs is a grocer like Publix. H-E-B, Kroger, Harris Teeter, etc are very similar. It's mindnumbing that in a metro of 1.3 million you can count the number of that type of grocery store in the entire metro area on one hand. In other cities, even half the size of OKC, they are too numerous to count. WinCo appears to be another no frills type store similar to the stores already in the market, not the notch up that is lacking in OKC. Now its definitely a step forward because it will compete well with Wal-Mart and likely take some marketshare, possibly paving the way for a better grocer to enter the market in the future, but Winco isn't going to solve OKC's grocery woes.

What OKC needs is a grocer like Publix. H-E-B, Kroger, Harris Teeter, etc are very similar. It's mindnumbing that in a metro of 1.3 million you can count the number of that type of grocery store in the entire metro area on one hand. In other cities, even half the size of OKC, they are too numerous to count. WinCo appears to be another no frills type store similar to the stores already in the market, not the notch up that is lacking in OKC. Now its definitely a step forward because it will compete well with Wal-Mart and likely take some marketshare, possibly paving the way for a better grocer to enter the market in the future, but Winco isn't going to solve OKC's grocery woes.

I've shopped at many HEB's and Kroger and think they are decent grocery stores. I think OKC could also be well served with stores like HyVee and Publix. My main point is that some posters seem to think that having WinCo possibly come into the market is just horrible, when it isn't for exactly the reason you cited at the end of your post.

I can tell you right now that as long as the current liquor laws in this state remain unchanged, don't expect an onslaught of grocers like the one's you mentioned to take the Oklahoma market very serious when it comes to expansion.

I can tell you right now that as long as the current liquor laws in this state remain unchanged, don't expect an onslaught of grocers like the one's you mentioned to take the Oklahoma market very serious when it comes to expansion.

It's easy to blame the liquor laws, but the truth is cities like Tulsa, Wichita, Kansas City (KS), as well as any city in Colorado, Utah, or Minnesota all have or have once had laws similar to Oklahoma's and they didn't keep the quality grocers out of those markets. I can almost guarantee that its the Wal-Mart marketshare keeping those other grocers out, not the liquor laws.

Bchris02, I know you love to rip Wal Mart, and I am frankly not a fan myself. But to just assume its all Wal Mart's fault is incorrect.

The states you rattled off in general have better demographics, as in higher incomes, than OK. Because of that, those states can get away with having draconian liquor laws because they will make it up in higher sales, thanks to more disposable income (although one could argue its a shallow observation since those states have much high COL's, but I digress).

We need something else to sweeten the pot, per say. Better liquor sales would likely make up for any perceived weakness in comp food sales. Even on the upscale side, the grocery business is a very low profit enterprise, and in the future there will be less, not more stores. So they must count every penny that comes in to survive.

In the mean time, vote with your feet and pocketbook and shop at the stores you perceive to be of high quality. These chains look at sales in comparative stores, and if they are lacking, then they won't bother coming in.

Thanks for the response, but I must confess I still don't get the "racing to the bottom" comment. Have you ever stepped foot in a WinCo before? How do you know you are not getting good service (and style) with them if you've never shopped them before? By simply watching a three minute Youtube video?? I'm not saying WinCo is the greatest supermarket ever, but I've actually shopped the store and find it rather silly for anyone to judge the merits of any store without ever shopping or stepping foot in one.

I do agree with you about Publix. I'm VERY familiar with them and have shopped several of their locations in Florida.

I'll confess, I have never shopped in one but my understanding is they are bulk food store along the lines of Costco and Sams.

I'll confess, I have never shopped in one but my understanding is they are bulk food store along the lines of Costco and Sams.

While they do have a relatively small section of the typical 90,000 sq ft store devoted to "bulk items", WinCo is NOT a bulk food store. In addition, it has a full service deli, bakery, produce, and butcher section. It also does not require a membership to shop.

This whole grocery store thing is getting ridiculous. It's a classic example of the Grass Is Always Greener syndrome. These other stores are made to sound like something really different and I've been in enough Kroger's and the like to know they are simple grocery stores. We have perfectly fine grocery stores in this city and to say we don't is just to confuse the facts with wishes for things we don't have.

This whole grocery store thing is getting ridiculous. It's a classic example of the Grass Is Always Greener syndrome. These other stores are made to sound like something really different and I've been in enough Kroger's and the like to know they are simple grocery stores. We have perfectly fine grocery stores in this city and to say we don't is just to confuse the facts with wishes for things we don't have.

By and large you either:

A. Live adjacent to the May and Britton Homeland

B. Smoke too much crack

Or

C. Have never been to a common grocery store in any other metropolitan area.

The state of the vast majority of Grocery stores here is pathetic, unless you want meats that are injected with up to a xx% of a patented solution, flaccid produce, and no specialty products at all. If you eat Oreos and Doritos, sure they're fine, but for real food, it sucks.

By and large you either:

A. Live adjacent to the May and Britton Homeland

B. Smoke too much crack

Or

C. Have never been to a common grocery store in any other metropolitan area.

The state of the vast majority of Grocery stores here is pathetic, unless you want meats that are injected with up to a xx% of a patented solution, flaccid produce, and no specialty products at all. If you eat Oreos and Doritos, sure they're fine, but for real food, it sucks.

I will agree that Homeland is by far the best of the lot, but really the only option?

- Whole Foods
- Sprouts
- Buy 4 Less
- Crest
- Uptown Market
- Homeland May and Britton and the one South was nice last I was in

I know I'm missing others. My point is that the clamoring for a different chain to come here is just like the clamoring for Bass Pro or Whole Foods or everything thing else that's not here. Now that WF and BP are here, they don't seem so "special" anymore. I really do think it's mostly the GIAG syndrome.

I will agree that Homeland is by far the best of the lot, but really the only option?

- Whole Foods
- Sprouts
- Buy 4 Less
- Crest
- Uptown Market
- Homeland May and Britton and the one South was nice last I was in

I know I'm missing others. My point is that the clamoring for a different chain to come here is just like the clamoring for Bass Pro or Whole Foods or everything thing else that's not here. Now that WF and BP are here, they don't seem so "special" anymore. I really do think it's mostly the GIAG syndrome.

Rest assured, you're not missing others. The point is, stores like the May and Britton Homeland are the norm just about everywhere I've been. Hell, Boulder Colorado with its 100,000 people supports 3 Whole Foods; our 1.75 M supports 1.

It is a big deal.

Rest assured, you're not missing others. The point is, stores like the May and Britton Homeland are the norm just about everywhere I've been. Hell, Boulder Colorado with its 100,000 people supports 3 Whole Foods; our 1.75 M supports 1.

It is a big deal.
Barely 1.3M

Rest assured, you're not missing others. The point is, stores like the May and Britton Homeland are the norm just about everywhere I've been. Hell, Boulder Colorado with its 100,000 people supports 3 Whole Foods; our 1.75 M supports 1.

It is a big deal.

Agreed. The OKC metro only has 1.3 million people, but be that as it may, Little Rock, a metro less than half the size of OKC, has 21 stores that are at least on the level of the May/Britton Homeland. This is a big issue for people who move to OKC from elsewhere and are used to a higher standard. Stores like people in this thread are wishing for are things people take for granted in any other metropolitan area. Zookeeper is right when he says after we get them they will be nothing special - because they aren't anything special outside of OKC. They are an amenity that any metropolitan area should have. I doubt anybody here thinks there should be an H-E-B Central Market or Flagship Randall's on every corner, but OKC deserves better than the stores it has, with the exception of the six listed above by zookeeper which actually are decent. Six stores for a metro of 1.3 million people especially one this sprawled out is ridiculous.

There are only six Central Markets total, all in Texas, so that is a very limited concept but there are HEB's of all sizes all over Texas which I think is more fair comparison to what should be in OKC. I am also talking about the newer style HEB stores, not the older smaller ones or the Walmart Supercenter competitor HEB Plus.

This whole grocery store thing is getting ridiculous. It's a classic example of the Grass Is Always Greener syndrome. These other stores are made to sound like something really different and I've been in enough Kroger's and the like to know they are simple grocery stores. We have perfectly fine grocery stores in this city and to say we don't is just to confuse the facts with wishes for things we don't have.

I tend to mostly agree with this. Sure...we could have better, but it's not that bad. My wife and I actually laughed at ourselves this summer when we walked into a terribly shabby, dark, poorly stocked Market Basket grocery store in quaint downtown Concord, NH. We looked at each other and said...Homeland doesn't look so bad now. So, it could always be worse.

Barely 1.3M

My bad. I pulled the number from this article:

Doing OK | Whole Foods' pending arrival signals change in Oklahoma City's discount-heavy grocery market | Retail & Financial content from Supermarket News (http://supermarketnews.com/retail-amp-financial/doing-ok)

Looks like a typo; 1.75 vs 1.25. Still, the point remains the same.

I tend to mostly agree with this. Sure...we could have better, but it's not that bad. My wife and I actually laughed at ourselves this summer when we walked into a terribly shabby, dark, poorly stocked Market Basket grocery store in quaint downtown Concord, NH. We looked at each other and said...Homeland doesn't look so bad now. So, it could always be worse.

Yeah it could be Wild Woody's Happy Foods in Kansas City. Now that's a bad grocery store. However, I would be willing to bet Concord has better options than the Market Basket you visited.

Bchris02, I know you love to rip Wal Mart, and I am frankly not a fan myself. But to just assume its all Wal Mart's fault is incorrect.



I all-but gave up on this thread because there's no new discussion, just constant blaming of the impenetrable, insurmountable, hopeless market share of WalMart, and despite plenty of evidence to the contrary about competitors, its simply ignored, because of the impenetrable, insurmountable, hopeless market share of WalMart, which is the absolute end of the discussions, so when it comes to groceries, we just need to "Abandon Hope, All Ye Who Enter Here," because of the impenetrable, insurmountable, hopeless market share of WalMart.

I'd say more, but I've got to go pick up a few things at Crest, which obviously can't really exist due to the impenetrable, insurmountable, hopeless market share of WalMart.

I will agree that Homeland is by far the best of the lot, but really the only option?

- Whole Foods
- Sprouts
- Buy 4 Less
- Crest
- Uptown Market
- Homeland May and Britton and the one South was nice last I was in

I know I'm missing others. My point is that the clamoring for a different chain to come here is just like the clamoring for Bass Pro or Whole Foods or everything thing else that's not here. Now that WF and BP are here, they don't seem so "special" anymore. I really do think it's mostly the GIAG syndrome.

I think you nailed it. The Next Big Thing of Yesterday is the Yawn of Tomorrow . . .
In the Twin Cities area I get the impression that "THE" grocery store to go to is Lunds.
I've been to Lunds. It's okay. There's one serving the culinary needs of the inhabitants of the hoity-toity lakeside residences on Lake Minnetonka. I think they may even have packaged lutefisk in the aisles.

Yet I have to say that although Whole Foods and Sprouts (and Lunds) are fine, in my opinion there is nothing that makes them Ultimately Superior to say . . . the Homeland at Britton and May or even what Snyder's at Hefner and May used to be.
Frankly, I'm curious just how much serious cooking a lot of the grocery store critics in here actually do.

P.S.: I bought some "fresh" salmon at Gulfport the other day that was close to the best salmon I ever helped to approach perfection on the plate. I didn't go looking for it at any "Grocery Store".

While they do have a relatively small section of the typical 90,000 sq ft store devoted to "bulk items", WinCo is NOT a bulk food store. In addition, it has a full service deli, bakery, produce, and butcher section. It also does not require a membership to shop.

In that case, I stand corrected.

Just from the pictures WinCo kind of reminds me more of the Food 4 Less that used to be at 122nd & Penn with the open racks and cut boxes, although with much better lighting.

Did the crime-ridden apartments take the place of the Food 4 Less at that location?
Or did the Buy 4 Less (actually a mile south of that location) simply raise their bar a little?

Nope, the store closed and a call center went into that space, the SW corner. I lived across the street (Northgreen) when I moved back from Dallas and before it was a crime ridden area, so it was convenient.

Yeah it could be Wild Woody's Happy Foods in Kansas City. Now that's a bad grocery store. However, I would be willing to bet Concord has better options than the Market Basket you visited.

Don't ask how, but I once ended up at a Chas Ball Supermarket on Parallel Parkway in KC. That particular store just might make that Happy Foods look like Harris Teeter or HEB in comparison.

Don't ask how, but I once ended up at a Chas Ball Supermarket on Parallel Parkway in KC. That particular store just might make that Happy Foods look like Harris Teeter or HEB in comparison.

Why do I have a feeling that "Parallel Parkway" isn't too far from Prospect Ave? =)

Nope, the store closed and a call center went into that space, the SW corner. I lived across the street (Northgreen) when I moved back from Dallas and before it was a crime ridden area, so it was convenient.


Did the crime-ridden apartments take the place of the Food 4 Less at that location?
Or did the Buy 4 Less (actually a mile south of that location) simply raise their bar a little?

Most of the shopping center has become an office for Cox Communications.

I am wondering where Winco will build. Will it be already served areas such as Edmond, NW OKC, Midwest City, Norman or Moore? or Will they try to go for the areas that are lacking a full service grocery store. (240 and Sooner, Mustang, Tri City, Yukon, Downtown or Midtown)

Will they take over an existing big box/shopping center or will they build their own big box that could close and sit empty if the chain does not do well here or goes under all together. (Let's face it the grocery business is no longer a huge money making industry any more especially when large percentage of the population is on Food Stamps in this country and only a small percentage of people still buy groceries by the basket load.)

Interesting . . . Apparently "Food 4 Less" moved the other direction and became "Aldi" . .

I was thinking the Food 4 Less was bought out or went under. When they closed that store, I think most people were surprised because it did pretty well here. That was back in the days before Walmart got into the grocery market in OKC. The closest thing that may have existed was the Supercenter in Yukon or the one in El Reno. They were the first two supercenter if I recall right.

I was thinking the Food 4 Less was bought out or went under. When they closed that store, I think most people were surprised because it did pretty well here. That was back in the days before Walmart got into the grocery market in OKC. The closest thing that may have existed was the Supercenter in Yukon or the one in El Reno. They were the first two supercenter if I recall right.

Food 4 Less was a direct-to-the-customer store owned and operated by (at that time) distributing giant Fleming Companies.

Why do I have a feeling that "Parallel Parkway" isn't too far from Prospect Ave? =)

Not even in the same state; Parallel Parkway runs east-west through Kansas City, Kansas.

Agreed. The OKC metro only has 1.3 million people, but be that as it may, Little Rock, a metro less than half the size of OKC, has 21 stores that are at least on the level of the May/Britton Homeland. This is a big issue for people who move to OKC from elsewhere and are used to a higher standard. Stores like people in this thread are wishing for are things people take for granted in any other metropolitan area. Zookeeper is right when he says after we get them they will be nothing special - because they aren't anything special outside of OKC. They are an amenity that any metropolitan area should have. I doubt anybody here thinks there should be an H-E-B Central Market or Flagship Randall's on every corner, but OKC deserves better than the stores it has, with the exception of the six listed above by zookeeper which actually are decent. Six stores for a metro of 1.3 million people especially one this sprawled out is ridiculous.

This is so true--these stores are NOT anything special outside of OKC--they are the default option. Our default options are rock bottom prices and no frills. I just can't understand how some people see this as whining about a problem that does not really exist. Sometimes our standards are just far too low.

Not even in the same state; Parallel Parkway runs east-west through Kansas City, Kansas.

The Prospect Ave. to which I was referring runs north-south through Kansas City, Kansas.
The part I accidentally drove onto began not far from 12th Street and Vine.

This is so true--these stores are NOT anything special outside of OKC--they are the default option. Our default options are rock bottom prices and no frills. I just can't understand how some people see this as whining about a problem that does not really exist. Sometimes our standards are just far too low.

Well said. I think OKC should work on improving these smaller issues that aren't deal breakers but do affect the quality of life here. This is an exciting time to be living in OKC, but I would be lying if I said living here didn't require sacrifices in certain areas compared to living elsewhere, this being one of them. On one hand its not a big deal, I can just drive farther to one of the few quality options that are here. On the other hand its very annoying and a poor reflection on the city. I think demanding better is certainly justified.

I stand (actually, sort of slouch) corrected. :)

Reasor's are nice, but Wal-Mart has an over 60% marketshare in OKC. Its very risky for a new grocer to enter a market in that environment. Winco doesn't look like the kind of grocer most here have been asking for, but its a step in the right direction because it will challenge Wal-Mart's dominance. The Wal-Mart crowd isn't going to leave Wal-Mart for a trendy supermarket. There is talk of Reasor's opening in Edmond but the NIMBY's are fighting it so I will believe it when I see it.

Reasor's is definitely expanding, maybe Edmond/OKC is next? They just bought three of the old Albertson's stores in Tulsa that turned into Food Pyramid. The other two Food Pyramid's are being bought by a national grocery chain.

The owner of the Food Pyramid grocery chain is selling all of its five Tulsa stores, including three to Tahlequah-based Reasor’s.

Reasor’s will acquire the stores at 11214 East 71st Street South, 3328 East 51st Street, and 3915 South Peoria Ave. An unnamed national tenant is considering Food Pyramid’s other sites at 4818 East 80th Street South, 7990 East 51st Street, and the closed building at 10122 South Memorial Drive.
Reasor's buying three Food Pyramid stores in Tulsa | Tulsa World (http://www.tulsaworld.com/article.aspx/Reasors_buying_three_Food_Pyramid_stores_in_Tulsa/20130814_53_0_Theown627169)

Yeah it could be Wild Woody's Happy Foods in Kansas City. Now that's a bad grocery store. However, I would be willing to bet Concord has better options than the Market Basket you visited.

It does, but we were staying blocks away from the Market Basket...a nice Shaw's and a nice Hannaford.

According to an article at Tulsa World, the national retailer is not in the grocery business. They were wanting to buy three Food Pyramid locations in Tulsa. Whoever this retailer is will be somebody who will likely have multiple metro locations. That rules out REI or Costco, both of which would likely only open a single location.

Needless to say, if OKC wants better grocery stores along with a lifestyle center, it needs to step up it's income. There are at least two states poorer than Oklahoma in which the main city has higher per capita income than Oklahoma City. They are Little Rock and Albuquerque.

Needless to say, if OKC wants better grocery stores along with a lifestyle center, it needs to step up it's income. There are at least two states poorer than Oklahoma in which the main city has higher per capita income than Oklahoma City. They are Little Rock and Albuquerque.

Yeah we'll get right on that.

Needless to say, if OKC wants better grocery stores along with a lifestyle center, it needs to step up it's income. There are at least two states poorer than Oklahoma in which the main city has higher per capita income than Oklahoma City. They are Little Rock and Albuquerque.

When looking at MSA income numbers, OKC comes out ahead of Tulsa and Little Rock. OKC is killed in this area by three things in my opinion.

1. Fragmentation of wealthy areas throughout the city
2. Low developer standards
3. Wal-Mart marketshare

These are not easily fixable, but something can be done about #2.

I've heard this retailer -- still mysterious -- is close to securing 3 locations in OKC and 2 in Tulsa.


My money is still on WinCo.

I've heard this retailer -- still mysterious -- is close to securing 3 locations in OKC and 2 in Tulsa.


My money is still on WinCo.

Tulsa World says its not a grocer. What could warrant 3 locations if not a grocery store?

REI, Costco, Cost Plus World Market, Container Store, etc would likely only open a single location in each metro.