Just heard on Channel 9 - Kelly Ogle referring to Steve's comment when discussing the upcoming downtown developments... NEED INFO SOON! :please:

Steve's OKC Central ‏@stevelackmeyer 1m
Wow. Thanks @kellyogle for such wonderful mention tonight. Nice recollecting w/ you our early days as reporters....
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8:25 PM - 18 Jul 13 · Details

I heard that too!!! Someone please enlighten us

Is the clip posted online?

My 2 Cents: Detroit Goes Bankrupt - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/22881301/my-2-cents-detroit-goes-bankrupt)

My guess is he is referring to the mystery tower(s) which should be announced at any time now.

The 8th & Oklahoma announcement today is $45 million alone, and we've got tons in the pipeline, like the Mosaic, the East Bricktown development, Maywood Park Apartments II, whatever Nick Preftakes is up to... All the MAPS 3 stuff about ready to pop... The Boulevard... Lots of things in process in Midtown... And the little matter of a tower or two or three. :)

All that adds up to some really big numbers!

The 8th & Oklahoma announcement today is $45 million alone, and we've got tons in the pipeline, like the Mosaic, the East Bricktown development, Maywood Park Apartments II, whatever Nick Preftakes is up to... All the MAPS 3 stuff about ready to pop... The Boulevard... Lots of things in process in Midtown... And the little matter of a tower or two or three. :)

All that adds up to some really big numbers!

Well, MAPS 3 itself is about $770 million. Make that times 10 and you get $7.7 billion.

I don't know how much all this stuff will add up to, but I'm pretty sure that if you pour 7 bil into OKC, the results are likely to be pretty noticeable (if not spectacular).
:)

I would bet the comment was referencing the original MAPS and probably includes things already under construction on maybe even recently completed.

We could get to several billion pretty easily, especially if you add in Devon which was $750 million alone.

I would bet the comment was referencing the original MAPS and probably includes things already under construction on maybe even recently completed.

We could get to several billion pretty easily, especially if you add in Devon which was $750 million alone.

Yes quite likely. And the 'times 10' comment could just be figurative language meaning 'a lot more than', not an exact multiplicative factor. But I'm just having fun with the quote.

Hey, I'd be quite happy with a couple billion in total investment dollars for recent and upcoming projects. As someone else once said, "a billion here, a billion there... pretty soon you're talking real money".

With non-tower, non-MAPS development, Downtown is probably approaching $250M - $500M under construction/in the pipeline. If 2 $500M towers are announced and you factor in $750M Maps, you're already talking $2B in, what, 5 years?

Is everyone getting the sense that this city is about to explode as the next great American city? I do.

Is everyone getting the sense that this city is about to explode as the next great American city? I do.

The only thing that would make me say No to that question is that this type of development is not unique to downtown OKC. Every city in America has been re-urbanizing for going on 15 years now (with a short slow down after 2008). If anything, OKC was late getting out of the starting blocks and who knows if it can run fast enough to catch up with other cities. Even here is Jax where we took a serious hit to our real-estate we already managed to build 3 high-rise residential towers downtown on the Southbank.

Yes quite likely. And the 'times 10' comment could just be figurative language meaning 'a lot more than', not an exact multiplicative factor. But I'm just having fun with the quote.

Hey, I'd be quite happy with a couple billion in total investment dollars for recent and upcoming projects. As someone else once said, "a billion here, a billion there... pretty soon you're talking real money".

If you want to extrapolate everything from MAPs in 1993 onward, 10x is probably a bit conservative.

Is everyone getting the sense that this city is about to explode as the next great American city? I do.

Yes.

I've said for a while I thought OKC would be the next American city to move into boom town territory, i.e. 20% population growth in a decade (we are off to a good start since 2010) and lots of new construction everywhere.

You can just feel the momentum building and now that the financial markets are out of the toilet and there is actually money to be loaned, I think the dam is getting ready to break.

Like anything, so much about a city is perception and as the perception grows that OKC is hot, it will only become hotter.

The only thing that would make me say No to that question is that this type of development is not unique to downtown OKC. Every city in America has been re-urbanizing for going on 15 years now (with a short slow down after 2008). If anything, OKC was late getting out of the starting blocks and who knows if it can run fast enough to catch up with other cities. Even here is Jax where we took a serious hit to our real-estate we already managed to build 3 high-rise residential towers downtown on the Southbank.

True. But there is a vibe here that is incredibly optimistic and our economy is rocking.

Is everyone getting the sense that this city is about to explode as the next great American city? I do.

Definitely. As long as oil stays up.

The only thing that would make me say No to that question is that this type of development is not unique to downtown OKC. Every city in America has been re-urbanizing for going on 15 years now (with a short slow down after 2008). If anything, OKC was late getting out of the starting blocks and who knows if it can run fast enough to catch up with other cities. Even here is Jax where we took a serious hit to our real-estate we already managed to build 3 high-rise residential towers downtown on the Southbank.

Yeah, but Jax is still at a point where everything hit and new is in the burbs. There are a few Mesta-like neighborhoods but the downtown, while building vertical still, is hardly seeing our level of development.

The difference between us and other peer cities is the downtown is no longer a cool novelty. It's the fastest growing part of the city.

Is everyone getting the sense that this city is about to explode as the next great American city? I do.

We'll have to see. What OKC needs is so much development happening at once that it causes the rest of the nation to rethink the stereotypes they have of OKC and give it a second look. That's the only way OKC will ever become the "place to be" like Charlotte was in the 2000s and Austin and Portland currently are. Things are setting up so just that may be a possibility.

Definitely. As long as oil stays up.

I doubt Oil will ever get below $ 65.00 again.

We'll have to see. What OKC needs is so much development happening at once that it causes the rest of the nation to rethink the stereotypes they have of OKC and give it a second look. That's the only way OKC will ever become the "place to be" like Charlotte was in the 2000s and Austin and Portland currently are. Things are setting up so just that may be a possibility.

Let 3 major towers be under construction at once and we'll be there.

We'll have to see. What OKC needs is so much development happening at once that it causes the rest of the nation to rethink the stereotypes they have of OKC and give it a second look...In an indirect, yet unmistakable way, the Thunder add an allure to the city in various ways. It helps they're turning out to be a perennial contender.

I think it depends on what you mean by the next "Great American City".

OKC is not passing the growth rate of Austin in the next 15 years, and Seattle/Portland will likely continue to be more desired locations as well. OKC still needs to diversify it's economy more.

That being said...I think OKC's most basic infrastructure is possibly the strongest in the country to sustain rapid growth. And if the City can find a manageable way to implement comprehensive public transportation in the next 25 years, then I think 30 years from now, the sky is the limit.

I just never got the allure of Austin (coming from someone who grew up in Texas).

OKC will never be Seattle. Can't surpass a place with a physical location like that (and the seafood...yum).

I'm sure OKC don't want to be Seattle either. But there are striking similarities if you look beyond Seattle's impressive setting.

It hasn't always been rosy Posey here either; Seattle had their dark moments too back in the late 1980s when people were fleeing the place since there was nothing here but Boeing, which was struggling. but as Pete said, Seattle has been a great alternative to LA and to a lesser extent SF, and the city had a visionary black mayor who made the city pro business and local bank's gave business a chance. The fruits of that are Microsoft, Amazon, Starbucks, Nordstrom, The North Face, REI, Nintendo, Costco, Drugstore.com, Expedia, Bank of America/Meryl Lynch, and Real Networks among other high tech startups that have diversified the mfg intensive Boeing and Warehouse and the Ports.

Does any ofmthis sound familiar? Isn't OKC having a boom in its core industry but is surely diversifying due to great civic leadership and homegrown businessmen willing to give the city a chance? I'd argue that OKC is a lot like Seattle just that it happened faster there and SEA had more to start with, but I totally see OKC capitalizing on the weaknesses of DFW and especially Houston. Infrastructure goes a long way and OKC's is better than most major cities, including Seattle. So I wholeheartedly expect OKC to be a Portland as long as the renaissance doesn't stop and it could be here within 5 years.

OKC isn't Seattle but does share similarities not in geography but in civic leadership and industrial turnaround due to diversity and nourishment of homegrown talents. OKC needs to use OU, OSU, and OCU as the knowledge engine much like SEA has the UW, SeattleU, and to a lesser extent WSU. I think a little bit more of the build it and they will come couldn't hurt, particularly regarding the airport as that is the ONLY piece of OKC's infrastructure that doesn't compete well with other major cities IMO. I think, instead of resting on the fact that so many recent hubs have closed due to consolidation that they would be picked if any airline was looking, OKC should see its airport as infrastructure that it wants to be ready to immediately capitalize on When the chance happens (a la the NBA). With the airport at least built out and reconfigured like is planned, I don't see how OKC couldn't compete well with its peers going forward.

I forgot you lived there, great post. I freaking love Seattle. Always wanted to visit and finally had a chance last summer for a wedding, amazing place.

The thing that is tough with airports is that it's extremely dependent on attracting an airline to make it a hub or focus city. We have a great airport, but without being a hub for a major airline it will always lag. I agree that we could be a focus city for some airline out there, it's poised to do so.

In speaking to the weaknesses of DFW and Houston, I'm from Houston, and even though their infrastructure is horrid, it's not slowing down there any. The growth there is absolutely insane.

We'll have to see. What OKC needs is so much development happening at once that it causes the rest of the nation to rethink the stereotypes they have of OKC and give it a second look. That's the only way OKC will ever become the "place to be" like Charlotte was in the 2000s and Austin and Portland currently are. Things are setting up so just that may be a possibility.

One could argue that having everyone in the world discover OKC overnight could be more of a problem than an asset. Austin in particular has grown at an unsustainable rate. I'll take our 10 to 15% annual growth every year. That is a solid, "smart growth" number. Also, we don't necessarily need to be recognized by the entire world as "the place to be." We just need OKC to be awesome for those of us who choose to live here. We'll get our day in the sun eventually.

One could argue that having everyone in the world discover OKC overnight could be more of a problem than an asset. Austin in particular has grown at an unsustainable rate. I'll take our 10 to 15% annual growth every year. That is a solid, "smart growth" number. Also, we don't necessarily need to be recognized by the entire world as "the place to be." We just need OKC to be awesome for those of us who choose to live here. We'll get our day in the sun eventually.

Did you mean 10% to 15% 10-year growth?

And OKC could sustain twice the amount of growth Austin has been experiencing and it probably still wouldn't feel as bad as it does in Austin. 3 interstates to 1 + a consistent grid pattern gives OKC the ability to grow at astonishing rates.

I'm sure OKC don't want to be Seattle either. But there are striking similarities if you look beyond Seattle's impressive setting.

It hasn't always been rosy Posey here either; Seattle had their dark moments too back in the late 1980s when people were fleeing the place since there was nothing here but Boeing, which was struggling. but as Pete said, Seattle has been a great alternative to LA and to a lesser extent SF, and the city had a visionary black mayor who made the city pro business and local bank's gave business a chance. The fruits of that are Microsoft, Amazon, Starbucks, Nordstrom, The North Face, REI, Nintendo, Costco, Drugstore.com, Expedia, Bank of America/Meryl Lynch, and Real Networks among other high tech startups that have diversified the mfg intensive Boeing and Warehouse and the Ports.

Does any ofmthis sound familiar? Isn't OKC having a boom in its core industry but is surely diversifying due to great civic leadership and homegrown businessmen willing to give the city a chance? I'd argue that OKC is a lot like Seattle just that it happened faster there and SEA had more to start with, but I totally see OKC capitalizing on the weaknesses of DFW and especially Houston. Infrastructure goes a long way and OKC's is better than most major cities, including Seattle. So I wholeheartedly expect OKC to be a Portland as long as the renaissance doesn't stop and it could be here within 5 years.

OKC isn't Seattle but does share similarities not in geography but in civic leadership and industrial turnaround due to diversity and nourishment of homegrown talents. OKC needs to use OU, OSU, and OCU as the knowledge engine much like SEA has the UW, SeattleU, and to a lesser extent WSU. I think a little bit more of the build it and they will come couldn't hurt, particularly regarding the airport as that is the ONLY piece of OKC's infrastructure that doesn't compete well with other major cities IMO. I think, instead of resting on the fact that so many recent hubs have closed due to consolidation that they would be picked if any airline was looking, OKC should see its airport as infrastructure that it wants to be ready to immediately capitalize on When the chance happens (a la the NBA). With the airport at least built out and reconfigured like is planned, I don't see how OKC couldn't compete well with its peers going forward.

Turning a city around from being somewhere everybody loves to hate to being the place everybody wants to move to will take the right things happening at the right time. It is going to take luck if OKC is to ever get there. It's fun to dream, but I don't think I would count those chickens just yet. Boom cities have large, gentrified, organic urban districts with a focus on arts and music. You can see some of this stuff starting in OKC but there is still a long ways to go. OKC needs a Blue Dome, Brady, or Brookside. Bricktown is not that.

There are also quality of life issues that needs to be improved on in OKC. Having lived elsewhere I can objectively say that OKC still suffers compared to most cities its size or even smaller. OKC has come a long way but it still has a long ways to go.

What are the quality of life issues you speak of? Just curious what you consider.

I can think of a number of quality of life improvements that this city needs to make before we match up with other cities. My list probably differs from that of other people, and some of the items on my list are probably not yet feasible for OKC to build. Of course there are things like "better schools" that you can always say, but I think there are several items that OKC is completely lacking at this point.

1) Mass transit. Major cities have it and we don't. We need a train system that connects all the major locations in the city, including the airport. This will improve not only the quality of life for people here, but also the visitor experience. It will also help grow the airport because more people will come here. It is the biggest missing piece and the most important to implement.

2) A major national cultural attraction. Most of OKC's cultural amenities are smaller scale. The OKC Museum of Art is a nice little art museum, but isn't remarkable on a larger scale. I'm sure the Civic Center is a decent place to hear an orchestra or see a play, but people don't come from Nebraska to see a performance there. While the Cowboy Hall of Fame is leaps and bounds beyond the Biggest Ball of Twine in Minnesota, it doesn't provide the type of attraction we need. The closest we have is the Thunder (and I'm not trying to discount their impact), but something not-professional sports related would be a big plus. What I am talking about here is a Sydney Opera House, a St Louis Arch, a multi-billion dollar museum. The problem here is that you're talking about an entire MAPS program for one project. It shouldn't just be a big spectacle, it should be a world-class cultural attraction.

3) A collection of local theaters that provide regular live entertainment. We aren't going to have Broadway but we could certainly do Branson. Two dozen theaters or so in Stockyards City that provide nightly shows could revitalize that area and would give people a definite answer to the question "what is there to do in OKC?" It's tragic that you can't see a professional showing of Oklahoma! anywhere in Oklahoma. That's the kind of thing visitors want to do. Gospel music, vaudeville comedy acts, dinner theater restaurants where waiters bring you your food on horses, that sort of thing. It's got local flavor and will bring in people from all over.

4) Thriving ethnic communities. The sad truth is that in Oklahoma City people tend to avoid the "black" part of town and the "Mexican" part of town because of the perception that they are dangerous places. Now you have bad areas in every city, but you also have places with a lot of character, fabulous public parks, cool old buildings, and very different culture. We have a so-so Asian District, but not really anything approaching a Chinatown or a Little Italy that other cities have. We have those neighborhoods but they haven't seen anything like the type of investment that other cities have put into them, and as a result they aren't places anyone goes to visit.

I can think of a number of quality of life improvements that this city needs to make before we match up with other cities. My list probably differs from that of other people, and some of the items on my list are probably not yet feasible for OKC to build. Of course there are things like "better schools" that you can always say, but I think there are several items that OKC is completely lacking at this point.


One thing you have to take into account is OKC's size however. Many of the things you mentioned are things not usually found in cities as small as OKC or Tulsa, such as extensive mass transit or a Sydney Opera House-level venue. I am not sure OKC should try to emulate Branson - it's primary target demographic is aging rapidly and its actually headed down hill. Branson has very little to attract anybody under 50. In fact, if you are in your twenties and you mention going to Branson many times you will be laughed at.

Personally, I think OKC needs to work on the following areas to catch up to other cities of 1.3 million people

1. More cohesive urban districts - OKC has too much 'patchwork' of gentrified and dilapidated blocks that don't seem to work together and therefore are nowhere close to potential. Midtown is a prime example. This is the biggest thing in my opinion OKC is lacking compared to its peers.

2. More bars/restaurants open late night and a few 24-hour spots other than the Waffle House or IHOP. Too much of OKC, even downtown, closes up at 10PM. What other major city does that?

3. A better live music venue - something that can compete with Cain's or the Brady in Tulsa

4. More prominent arts scene

5. Better retail (includes grocery stores)

I can think of a number of quality of life improvements that this city needs to make before we match up with other cities. My list probably differs from that of other people, and some of the items on my list are probably not yet feasible for OKC to build. Of course there are things like "better schools" that you can always say, but I think there are several items that OKC is completely lacking at this point.

1) Mass transit. Major cities have it and we don't. We need a train system that connects all the major locations in the city, including the airport. This will improve not only the quality of life for people here, but also the visitor experience. It will also help grow the airport because more people will come here. It is the biggest missing piece and the most important to implement.

2) A major national cultural attraction. Most of OKC's cultural amenities are smaller scale. The OKC Museum of Art is a nice little art museum, but isn't remarkable on a larger scale. I'm sure the Civic Center is a decent place to hear an orchestra or see a play, but people don't come from Nebraska to see a performance there. While the Cowboy Hall of Fame is leaps and bounds beyond the Biggest Ball of Twine in Minnesota, it doesn't provide the type of attraction we need. The closest we have is the Thunder (and I'm not trying to discount their impact), but something not-professional sports related would be a big plus. What I am talking about here is a Sydney Opera House, a St Louis Arch, a multi-billion dollar museum. The problem here is that you're talking about an entire MAPS program for one project. It shouldn't just be a big spectacle, it should be a world-class cultural attraction.

3) A collection of local theaters that provide regular live entertainment. We aren't going to have Broadway but we could certainly do Branson. Two dozen theaters or so in Stockyards City that provide nightly shows could revitalize that area and would give people a definite answer to the question "what is there to do in OKC?" It's tragic that you can't see a professional showing of Oklahoma! anywhere in Oklahoma. That's the kind of thing visitors want to do. Gospel music, vaudeville comedy acts, dinner theater restaurants where waiters bring you your food on horses, that sort of thing. It's got local flavor and will bring in people from all over.

4) Thriving ethnic communities. The sad truth is that in Oklahoma City people tend to avoid the "black" part of town and the "Mexican" part of town because of the perception that they are dangerous places. Now you have bad areas in every city, but you also have places with a lot of character, fabulous public parks, cool old buildings, and very different culture. We have a so-so Asian District, but not really anything approaching a Chinatown or a Little Italy that other cities have. We have those neighborhoods but they haven't seen anything like the type of investment that other cities have put into them, and as a result they aren't places anyone goes to visit.

A lot of the things that you named off are being addressed. The commuter rail from Norman to Edmond to Tinker to the airport is being studied. Crossroads is being converted into a Hispanic mall. These things take time to develop.

As for the music shows, I don't think that there is an interest in that from a community standpoint. All cities have a different culture and I don't believe that most people here generally care about going to that kind of live entertainment. This has been tried and not supported in the past. That being said I love going to the outdoor concerts at the Zoo Amp or Howard's new venue at the airpark. I personally stay as far from Branson as possible. I went to Table Rock Lake on vacation in may and never once drove into Branson. If I want that kind of entertainment it is a good excuse for me to travel.

As for me, I love OKC's personality and would never want to make it somewhere else. It is OKC.

The American Indian Cultural Center could be a big part of answering #2. Alas....

I think there's a bigger market for that sort of thing than you think. I'm not a fan of concerts at all, outdoor or otherwise, but I understand some people like that stuff. The goal is not to turn OKC into something else, it's to add options. Branson is a town of 10,000 people, you could drop it right down into OKC and we would never notice. But country and western shows would attract people from the rural part of the state, as well as entertain people who are visiting the city for conventions or for business. We need a live entertainment district.

As far as a Sydney Opera House, as I said, it's probably not feasible for OKC at this time. It's still something we must have if we're to move up into a higher class of city.

I think there's a bigger market for that sort of thing than you think. I'm not a fan of concerts at all, outdoor or otherwise, but I understand some people like that stuff. The goal is not to turn OKC into something else, it's to add options. Branson is a town of 10,000 people, you could drop it right down into OKC and we would never notice. But country and western shows would attract people from the rural part of the state, as well as entertain people who are visiting the city for conventions or for business. We need a live entertainment district.

As far as a Sydney Opera House, as I said, it's probably not feasible for OKC at this time. It's still something we must have if we're to move up into a higher class of city.

Like I said, Branson is on the decline and most of its target demographic is aging rapidly. The Branson style of entertainment does not appeal to the younger generation and modeling after it will only hurt OKC with the demographic it needs to be able to attract. I do agree OKC needs more live entertainment, but trying to mimic Branson is NOT what this city needs.

Like I said, Branson is on the decline and most of its target demographic is aging rapidly. The Branson style of entertainment does not appeal to the younger generation and modeling after it will only hurt OKC with the demographic it needs to be able to attract. I do agree OKC needs more live entertainment, but trying to mimic Branson is NOT what this city needs.

I definitely agree with that. As a young person myself I do not have any interest in that sort of entertainment. I understand that there is probably people who would be interested in that, but if you truly want OKC to continue its upward path you need to cater to what the younger generation wants and enjoys instead of the older generation or tourists. And what the younger generation enjoys is concentrated areas filled with bars and live music joints with large numbers of other young people. At least IMO. If OKC could step its game up in that regard it could hold its weight much better against "cool" cities like Austin and Portland. As a recent college grad myself, there isn't a bigger shock than when you transition from going out to bars filled with 20-23 yr olds to going out to bars filled with older people.

Mimic Branson, nah. Develop and promote some similar OK centric venues ... yeah, I could see that. The success of Harold Bell Wright's Shepherd of the Hills would not transfer here well at all. While it is a great book, and a dang decent live production outside Branson for 50+ years, it is so Ozark centric it belongs where it is. This doesn't mean there are not other OK centric stories and music that could succeed here, and succeed without creating a miniature B-town in the metro.

Did you mean 10% to 15% 10-year growth?

And OKC could sustain twice the amount of growth Austin has been experiencing and it probably still wouldn't feel as bad as it does in Austin. 3 interstates to 1 + a consistent grid pattern gives OKC the ability to grow at astonishing rates.

Yeah, we have a lot of room to grow without sprawling geographically.

It's tragic that you can't see a professional showing of Oklahoma! anywhere in Oklahoma. That's the kind of thing visitors want to do.



Discoveryland near Tulsa did that for many years but, for some reason, didn't this year.

There is actually an abundance of live theater offered in the OKC area for those who are interested in searching for it. It may not be the kind that attracts tourists from out of state but it is certainly available and the quality is excellent.

I know there was talk of them moving out of town (and I honestly don't know if that has happened or not), but I always thought that having a really cool downtown building to house the Photography Hall of Fame would be awesome. Ideally it would be in the Arts District. Make the building itself very distinctive. That could have the potential to be a "destination-type" cultural attraction, especially recently as it seems that amateur photography has really taken off.