I'll post this here as opposed to the political section, but I'm sure that the discussion will head that way anyway. This is sad news for such a once-bustling city, but this news comes as no surprise.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/19/us/detroit-files-for-bankruptcy.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Somewhere tonight a Detroit creditor will wake up in a cold sweat and screaming, after having a nightmare that the bankruptcy judge awarded them 0.002 cents on the dollar and one year of personal services from Seth and Ash and 733 customers of American Pawn and Jewelry.

maybe omni consumer products will offer to bail them out? -M

Very tip of the iceberg. Its going to be tough for cities to payout all the pensions going forward into the future as the baby boomers retire.

This comes as no shock. I think it would take a battalion of robocops to clean that joint up.

Very tip of the iceberg. Its going to be tough for cities to payout all the pensions going forward into the future as the baby boomers retire.

And states. Illinois is at the top of the list. Props to NJ governor Christie for trying to clean things up there. The unions are mad at him because - like in Detroit - they have the most to lose.

Very tip of the iceberg. Its going to be tough for cities to payout all the pensions going forward into the future as the baby boomers retire.


And states. Illinois is at the top of the list. Props to NJ governor Christie for trying to clean things up there. The unions are mad at him because - like in Detroit - they have the most to lose.
They let people manipulate their own benefits for way too long, it will eventually bankrupt many governments across the country.

City Journal - Steven Malanga: The Pension Fund That Ate California (http://www.city-journal.org/2013/23_1_calpers.html)

This comes as no shock. I think it would take a battalion of robocops to clean that joint up.

Detroit is a neat city with a lot of fascinating neighborhoods...it just can't recover with all the debt and pensions racked up over the years. It sucks for retirees that legitimately put in their time and busted their butt and earned every dime. Unfortunately there are too many baby boomers retiring and it is stressing the systems all over.

I'm hopeful this is the first step to recover for Detroit. The auto industry is recovering and it is a major point of entry from trade with our biggest partner, not to mention the large natural gas reserves in Southern Michigan that can pay off too. It has a lot going for it if the trash can just be cleaned up. A strong and revitalized Detroit would do wonders for the rust belt. I remember the days when you would see miles and miles of semis from Flint to Detroit to Toledo moving American made products back and forth in that area on I-75. When I was visiting there a few years ago there were hardly any on 75 and it spoke volumes to the state of the economies up there. This past year the semis are slowly coming back and it is only a matter of time for things to finally get cranking up there.

I'll post this here as opposed to the political section, but I'm sure that the discussion will head that way anyway. This is sad news for such a once-bustling city, but this news comes as no surprise.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/19/us/detroit-files-for-bankruptcy.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

It's a very popular topic here. Someone beat you to it in the politics section.

http://www.okctalk.com/politics/34487-detroit-files-bankruptcy.html

I like this thread better so far. The one over there turned to trash in 3 posts pretty much. :-P

I like this thread better so far. The one over there turned to trash in 3 posts pretty much. :-P

Just like most threads in the politics section. LOL

Most of you probably know people with fantastic pensions and retirement benefits which started paying when they retired around age 40. One guy I know is a retired firefighter in a small metro town, and that describes his situation. To paraphrase kevinpate above, I'll bet this guy is one of millions who woke up this morning from similar sleepless, sweat-soaked night, wondering how long their benefits would last. Each case is different, but we know that they can't last very long.

Mich. judge rules Detroit bankruptcy unconstitutional (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/19/detroit-bankruptcy-unconstitutional/2569481/)

-M

Most of you probably know people with fantastic pensions and retirement benefits which started paying when they retired around age 40. One guy I know is a retired firefighter in a small metro town, and that describes his situation. To paraphrase kevinpate above, I'll bet this guy is one of millions who woke up this morning from similar sleepless, sweat-soaked night, wondering how long their benefits would last. Each case is different, but we know that they can't last very long.
I have a friend, not from Detroit, but from Chicago who has a public pension in six digits (firefighter). He is in his fifties and I imagine he is concerned. He's taking steps to pay off his home and get out of debt so that he can weather the storm that is probably coming.

Mich. judge rules Detroit bankruptcy unconstitutional (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/19/detroit-bankruptcy-unconstitutional/2569481/)

-M

This will be interesting because it was a state judge ruling. Not sure a state judge can make a ruling affecting the parties of a federal case. Seems to me that would be a question for the federal court judge to answer.

Very tip of the iceberg. Its going to be tough for cities to payout all the pensions going forward into the future as the baby boomers retire.

Oklahoma teachers' retirement fund lags, but still on target to be fully funded | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-teachers-retirement-fund-lags-but-still-on-target-to-be-fully-funded/article/3732859)

It is closer to home than you know.

I have a friend, not from Detroit, but from Chicago who has a public pension in six digits (firefighter). He is in his fifties and I imagine he is concerned. He's taking steps to pay off his home and get out of debt so that he can weather the storm that is probably coming.

Curious. Is this the annual payout or the total value of the pension account?

Curious. Is this the annual payout or the total value of the pension account?

It has to be annually, I know/related to several OKC Firemen and Policemen and they draw 50,000--60,000 annually. I myself retired from the City Of OKC, was in a management position and I draw close to that.

thanks. Let me guess, they can start doing this after 20 years?

thanks. Let me guess, they can start doing this after 20 years?

Yes. OKC non-uniformed employees can retire with 25 years and draw half of their salary, plus another 2 percent for every year past that. Plus a generous benefit package.

Yes. OKC non-uniformed employees can retire with 25 years and draw half of their salary, plus another 2 percent for every year past that. Plus a generous benefit package.

Generous is right!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1069976_10151786458397755_2129029333_n.jpg

Mich. judge rules Detroit bankruptcy unconstitutional (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/19/detroit-bankruptcy-unconstitutional/2569481/)

-M

She also declared gravity unconstitutional because it injures kids on the playground.

If Detroit can't declare bankruptcy what are the possible alternatives. There are lots of cities and states who will be most interested in the answer to that question.

If Detroit can't declare bankruptcy what are the possible alternatives. There are lots of cities and states who will be most interested in the answer to that question.

Secede from the USA?

If you can't discharge the debt the only alternative is to pay it. Where is Detroit going to get $20 billion, the Federal government? If that happens you will see a huge wave of state and local bailouts. There is no chance Detroit can increase tax by $20 billion so that option is out. There is something like $1.7 trillion in state unfunded liabilities and the US government has $120 trllion. Where is this money going to come from?

Are we prepared to take this scenario to its logical conclusion - currency collapse, or are some people just not going to get the money they were promised?

If you can't discharge the debt the only alternative is to pay it. Where is Detroit going to get $20 billion, the Federal government? If that happens you will see a huge wave of state and local bailouts. There is no chance Detroit can increase tax by $20 billion so that option is out. There is something like $1.7 trillion in state unfunded liabilities and the US government has $120 trllion. Where is this money going to come from?

Are we prepared to take this scenario to its logical conclusion - currency collapse, or are some people just not going to get the money they were promised?

I think we'll still see bankruptcies allowed to clear out debts by cities, but at some point we need to realize there is no paying off debt. It is what everything is built on now. Some people just aren't going to get their money...since it never existed in the first place.

Many groups were over-promised by politicians and they believed it, just ask retirees with incredible benefits packages and bondholders with high-yield municipal bonds.

But another, more important group has suffered through this, and it is the 700,000 remaining citizens of Detroit who will finally have their promises delivered. They deserve 100% of their street lights, 100% of a necessary police force, 100% of their fire engines & ambulances ready to respond to emergencies, and a response time that ISN'T 5x the national average. They don't deserve Michigan's highest property tax and income tax rates, and they don't deserve the highest violent crime rate in the nation.

It'll be a long road to rebuild this city, but Snyder and Orr said they'll do it without federal or state bailouts, keeping local residents as their number one priority.

Who lied to retirees & bondholders? Former Michigan governor Jennifer Granholm (now teaching at UC Berkeley), former mayor Kwawme Kilpatrick (in jail), current mayor Dave Bing (on his way out), and the Detroit city council which wouldn't cut costs and kept borrowing $100 million per year to cover operating losses.

This is a lesson for every municipality and state with looming unfunded pensions, including Oklahoma.

I honestly don't know what the people who are owed money are expecting to happen. There is no money. When you accept a deal that has the other party paying you later you need to make sure they are actually capable of paying you later.

It is kind or shocking they kept finding groups willing to lend them that much in recent years