Thank you Hoyasooner - you said it perfectly. The soccer stadium should be a catalyst to build a neighborhood economy. Put parking around it and all people do is drive in, watch the game, and drive home. No synergy is ever achieved.

You can't put something like that in the west Bricktown lot. It will be in the way of the parking garage that is in the way of the future commuter rail bridge.

Oh sorry - not the north lot. I meant the west lot down by the Uhaul building. It is a little smaller but should easily fit a 7,000 seat stadium. Expansion to 20,000 seats might be a challenge on that site though.

Oh sorry - not the north lot. I meant the west lot down by the Uhaul building.

Ahhh, yes, that would be a fine spot. Right next to potential residential in the U-Haul building. Also next to Compress/Oklahoma Avenue with good access to filter traffic away. Do you think the diesel engines of the passing BNSF freights would cause a distraction?

Ahhh, yes, that would be a fine spot. Right next to potential residential in the U-Haul building. Also next to Compress/Oklahoma Avenue with good access to filter traffic away. Do you think the diesel engines of the passing BNSF freights would cause a distraction?

I don't think the train will have any impact at all. In fact, with future regional rail you can walk to the stadium from the station.

The typical MLS soccer field is around 330' X 210' (some bigger some smaller). I don't know if that is the total grass area or just the playing dimensions, but the main portion of the U-Haul lot is 440 X 280. I think you could do it but it would be a tight fit.

I don't think the train will have any impact at all. In fact, with future regional rail you can walk to the stadium from the station.

The typical MLS soccer field is around 330' X 210' (some bigger some smaller). I don't know if that is the total grass area or just the playing dimensions, but the main portion of the U-Haul lot is 440 X 280. I think you could do it but it would be a tight fit.

Not to mention that the streetcar will go right by that site no matter what route is chosen and built.

How about somewhere along Reno between I-35 and I-235, just east of Bricktown? That area could certainly use a jump-start for redevelopment.

How about somewhere along Reno between I-35 and I-235, just east of Bricktown? That area could certainly use a jump-start for redevelopment.

That's another area I was thinking about. It gets ghetto fast on Reno as soon as you cross I-35. Personally I would rather see it in one of our current up-and-coming districts, to compliment that district and also provide a jump-start to get it to critical mass.

bchris; you didn't read my post or you missed my point. I am wholly in favor of the stadium being in the core - just east of Downtown Airpark in Capital Hill/Southside to be exact. I think it would be a destination for that region as it would sit right in its prime market/audience and would give something to Capital Hill as a destination.

But what I mentioned pertained to the two competing ownership proposals, why not have the NON-AAA team go to the suburbs and OKC gets the AAA NASL team and stadium? I would prefer that then to have it all go away because the two knock each other out.

My point is not every pro team needs to be in OKC. I think we can start sending development level teams to the suburbs while keeping OKC itself at least minor league/AAA in every sport. I think there is enough interest/support for the NASL to be in the Southside (think 150,000+ Hispanic audience right there) AND the USL to the suburbs (say Edmond, which would be more 'family/local' oriented and would draw folks who do not want to come downtown/to the southside.

Anyway, I hope that clears up my thoughts.

I don't think the train will have any impact at all. In fact, with future regional rail you can walk to the stadium from the station.

The typical MLS soccer field is around 330' X 210' (some bigger some smaller). I don't know if that is the total grass area or just the playing dimensions, but the main portion of the U-Haul lot is 440 X 280. I think you could do it but it would be a tight fit.

Remember though part of the plan adds lines and a stop on the east side of the existing tracks in a later phase.

I don't think the train will have any impact at all. In fact, with future regional rail you can walk to the stadium from the station.

The typical MLS soccer field is around 330' X 210' (some bigger some smaller). I don't know if that is the total grass area or just the playing dimensions, but the main portion of the U-Haul lot is 440 X 280. I think you could do it but it would be a tight fit.

That is an accurate average field size for current MLS pitches. The requirements are tighter for international matches - larger than the midpoint numbers from JTF.

From FIFA Laws of the Game:

Law 1 – the field of play
Dimensions
The length of the touch line must be greater than the length of the goal line.

Length (touch line):
* minimum 90 m (100 yds)
* maximum 120 m (130 yds)

Width (goal line):
* minimum 45 m (50 yds)
* maximum 90 m (100 yds)

All lines must be of the same width, which must be not more than 12 cm (5 ins).


So a stadium of sufficient size to accomodate a FIFA compliant field with room to expand would be a very tight fit at that location. Coop, Pull A Part, Airpark, and maybe Wheeler Park are the best bets I think.

Sign me up for the riverfront on the Capitol Hill side.

Sign me up for the riverfront on the Capitol Hill side.

My post, #58, shares this sentiment.

It's isn't just a stadium, but practice and other facilities and fields. Sounds like a pretty large amount of area required. That may eliminate downtown unless the air park site is in play, or the fairgrounds out west. Story says 5 sites are under consideration.

Not sure why practice fields and the stadium would need to be adjacent to each other.

On edit, based on Rover's comment I just read the original article and not the small part provided in the OP. I suddenly lost interest in this project. Put this out in the burbs if this is what he has in mind.

http://newsok.com/prodigal-adg-to-build-soccer-stadium-in-oklahoma-city/article/3862781


He described the ideal location as being near a main thoroughfare and having a lot of surrounding land for parking, possible practice facilities, small soccer venues, and/or entertainment attractions.

...

“I think, obviously, it's very important that we create a green structure, for lack of a better term, going into this and planning for that to try and make as little impact on the surrounding environment and trying to contribute back to the environment's wellness through this process,” Funk said.

I will say this though - someone need to explain to Funk what 'green' is. You can build a LEED platinum stadium but if you build it with lots of parking and everyone has to drive you destroyed the very thing you were spending all the extra money to save.

Yes, we know that the ONLY thing important to this town is to be downtown, next to the street with no setback and no accommodation for other than pedestrian traffic. Otherwise let's hate it and go sit in a corner and sulk.

Sometimes there are valid reasons for other than downtown locations. Does that mean we shouldn't support them? What childishness and arrogance.

For expansion references, the footprint of the Frisco stadium is ~700`x ~860' and Houston's is ~955' x ~630'. That would rule out any location in bricktown.

Not sure why practice fields and the stadium would need to be adjacent to each other.

On edit, based on Rover's comment I just read the original article and not the small part provided in the OP. I suddenly lost interest in this project. Put this out in the burbs if this is what he has in mind.

Prodigal, ADG to build soccer stadium in Oklahoma City | News OK (http://newsok.com/prodigal-adg-to-build-soccer-stadium-in-oklahoma-city/article/3862781)



I will say this though - someone need to explain to Funk what 'green' is. You can build a LEED platinum stadium but if you build it with lots of parking and everyone has to drive you destroyed the very thing you were spending all the extra money to save.

anyone building a 20k event venue is going to want lots of nearby parking

You could never achieve LEED platinum with this type of project, and gold would be prohibitively expensive.

There are existing public soccer fields immediately to the west of Walker and Wiley Post Park. My guess is that they could be used as practice fields.

Funk has the money to build it himself if he wishes.

This

Any word on where the funding is coming from. I am just having a hard time seeing them pay for a stadium out of pocket since as of this far their teams have always played in city owned facilities.



[QUOTE=warreng88;665450]Would there be any interest in doing something like what FC Dallas did? Build a 20,000 person stadium with 17 tournament-grade fields around it.


I agree...maybe on the Myriad Gardens II Site (Central Park Site). Oh, to late for that.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk92/gandjdunlap/OklahomaCityFC-OKCSoccerComplex.jpg (http://s278.photobucket.com/user/gandjdunlap/media/OklahomaCityFC-OKCSoccerComplex.jpg.html)

Not really, they were talking about putting playing fields etc in the southern section of the Park anyway…just put the Stadium on the southernmost end?

There are existing public soccer fields immediately to the west of Walker and Wiley Post Park. My guess is that they could be used as practice fields.

The only thing immediately west of Walker and Wiley Post on the south side of the river are some ponds and walking trails. There are a about half-a-dozen practice fields immediately southwest of Wiley Post, in the middle of the neighborhood between Western and Walker. They are accessed by SW 22nd or 23rd streets. There are a few more in Wheeler Park on the north side of the river and a couple of makeshift fields in Wiley Post itself. I for one, do not like the idea of ruining either one of these parks for the likes of a soccer stadium however. There are better sites that don't ruin one of the Southside's best parks, not to mention Wiley Post and Wheeler are both historical with grand old trees and lots of fairly-recent improvements have been made to both.

I vote Fairgrounds, or one of our regional parks such as Will Rogers or Earlywine. Better yet, I vote the Adventure District. It would be another draw to the area and would fit nicely alongside another sport venue, the ASA Hall of Fame. Remington's parking lot is so vast, use part of that, and some of the empty land to the north of Deep Fork could be used for practice fields. Definitely more than enough room I would think and has access to I-44 and I-35.

For expansion references, the footprint of the Frisco stadium is ~700`x ~860' and Houston's is ~955' x ~630'. That would rule out any location in bricktown.

Go measure the footprints in England. I think you will find them quite a bit smaller.

which stadiums are you looking at in England? there are quite a few different types of venues over there. of course, i know what you're getting at, they can use smaller footprints because it's not a car driven area and everyone uses transit.

Yes, we know that the ONLY thing important to this town is to be downtown, next to the street with no setback and no accommodation for other than pedestrian traffic. Otherwise let's hate it and go sit in a corner and sulk.

Sometimes there are valid reasons for other than downtown locations. Does that mean we shouldn't support them? What childishness and arrogance.Took the words right out of my mouth.

which stadiums are you looking at in England? there are quite a few different types of venues over there. of course, i know what you're getting at, they can use smaller footprints because it's not a car driven area and everyone uses transit.
That's not necessarily true either. Only one country in Europe where more than 10% of the passenger miles are by rail. Cars dominate there too. There has been plenty of parking near by all of the stadiums I've been to in Europe, including England. now, if you are talking about neighborhood fields that isn't necessarily the case. But we are talking about a commercial team with ambitions to be a regional draw. They will need people to drive in to see them. Funk isn't going to spend millions and then locate where it is hard to get to.

That's what I was getting at. Teams play at those cozy neighborhood fields (which I love, by the way), but the Arsenal, Citeh's and ManU's of the world have venues much more like traditional stadiums we see here.

I think we are more likely to see something similar to Swansea AFC's Liberty Stadium. Seating capacity is 20750. Swansea is a Welsh club who was promoted to the Premire League in 2011. You can see there are a couple of reasonable sized parking lots but not on the scale of most American stadiums. I think something similar to this for a future MLS team is a worthy goal for OKC. (I think this might fit in that Farmer's Market location someone posted earlier. I am 100% sure it would fit the Coop site easily.) It would be better with some type of garage structure - vertical better than spreading it out even if more expensive initially.

http://static0.casgliad.sequence.co.uk/Cluster/Media/Items/000/000/029/086/Thumbnails/Thumb635x353.jpg?v=0

Arenas and stadia I've visited in Asia all front the sidewalk, incorporate a mix of uses on an active edge (usually sports bars, restaurants, some retail), and provide access to pedestrians, cyclists, transit users, and cars through structured parking. It's not hard. Car users should be able to visit the soccer stadium, but if it's going to be in the urban core then this development needs to respect its surroundings. A sea of surface parking and a cluster of soccer fields does not do that. If that's what is to be built, then put it in Edmond.

Here is an aerial of Houston's setup, no much surface parking but most people who attend Dynamo games (and Astros games across US-59) just park on surface lots scattered throughout downtown, or in garages.

http://onetouchsoccer.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/bbva.jpg

Funk sounds like he is going the Frisco/FC Dallas route. Maybe Lund will look to build a European style mid-sized stadium if his team survives and becomes an OKC MLS franchise.

Both Oklahoma City soccer groups plan to build stadiums | News OK (http://newsok.com/both-oklahoma-city-soccer-groups-plan-to-build-stadiums/article/3863566)

They should do a joint venture and build a massive stadium...

I think having two competing soccer franchises in OKC is a mistake too. But I understand there is some bad blood between Lund and Funk and that is probably the reason they are not cooperating. A cooperative effort quite possibly would culminate with an OKC MLS team. I am kind of worried how this is going to turn out so I am not going to get my hopes up. I will go to both teams' matches and see what happens though.

Adventure District seems perfect for Funk's idea. I'm okay with that.

Yeah im not sure why everyone thought immediately that it had to be downtown. I'm more likely to expect it to NOT be in downtown because it's going to be cheaper to build basically anywhere else. I just hope it's not up on the far NW side or out on the outskirts to the west.

The adventure district would be perfect.

In the future there will be a rail line connecting that district to downtown. Far enough away from downtown to allow for lower land acquisition costs but close enough to be connected by a short rail trip.

That's what I was getting at. Teams play at those cozy neighborhood fields (which I love, by the way), but the Arsenal, Citeh's and ManU's of the world have venues much more like traditional stadiums we see here.

Arsenals stadium doesn't have parking around it. It relies on public transportation or local supporters(has a station right next to it with large pathways connecting it) their website even suggest "Supporters are strongly advised not to drive to Emirates Stadium." Now Manchester United and Manchester City both have quite a bit of parking around them(probably not as much as the American Football stadiums) but they also aren't located in the heart of the city they are close to our adventure district in locations. Its about half and half on stadiums with parking and ones without. The ones without parking are located either on the outskirts of town or in large sporting developments and even those are further out.

The walk to the stadium from the pub/bar or public transit spot there is a similar tradition to our tale-gate tradition here.

Arsenals stadium doesn't have parking around it. It relies on public transportation or local supporters(has a station right next to it with large pathways connecting it) their website even suggest "Supporters are strongly advised not to drive to Emirates Stadium." Now Manchester United and Manchester City both have quite a bit of parking around them(probably not as much as the American Football stadiums) but they also aren't located in the heart of the city they are close to our adventure district in locations. Its about half and half on stadiums with parking and ones without. The ones without parking are located either on the outskirts of town or in large sporting developments and even those are further out.

The walk to the stadium from the pub/bar or public transit spot there is a similar tradition to our tale-gate tradition here.

i'm sorry but comparing a stadium in london (from both a transit and pop standpoint) to a new stadium going to be built in okc makes 0 sense

I like the adventure district area too. But what property would be available for them to build on? They have to be able to acquire the land if they are going to build on it

i'm sorry but comparing a stadium in london (from both a transit and pop standpoint) to a new stadium going to be built in okc makes 0 sense

I agree actually. But to say that stadiums in England are more like our football stadiums here isn't true. Even Chelsea are looking to build a new stadium and cant expand their current one because there isn't enough transit capacity to support anymore people on a game day.

That being said they are looking to expand to 60,000 people from about 40,000 and we wouldn't even come close to those numbers.

Arsenals stadium doesn't have parking around it. It relies on public transportation or local supporters(has a station right next to it with large pathways connecting it) their website even suggest "Supporters are strongly advised not to drive to Emirates Stadium." Now Manchester United and Manchester City both have quite a bit of parking around them(probably not as much as the American Football stadiums) but they also aren't located in the heart of the city they are close to our adventure district in locations. Its about half and half on stadiums with parking and ones without. The ones without parking are located either on the outskirts of town or in large sporting developments and even those are further out.

The walk to the stadium from the pub/bar or public transit spot there is a similar tradition to our tale-gate tradition here.

Thanks for the clarification. I've never been over there so I was speaking plainly on pictures I'd seen of the stadiums while watching EPL games.

I think if we build it close to the heart of the city or in a largely populated area we should have less parking added and try to increase public transportation to the area if we can. As much as i would like a stadium near the river and in the heart of the city i dont know if its a viable option until we can increase our public transportation.

I agree actually. But to say that stadiums in England are more like our football stadiums here isn't true. Even Chelsea are looking to build a new stadium and cant expand their current one because there isn't enough transit capacity to support anymore people on a game day.

That being said they are looking to expand to 60,000 people from about 40,000 and we wouldn't even come close to those numbers.

That is why I think Swansea's stadium is a close approximation of what OKC can realistically expect. It seats a little under 21000 and they play in the EPL. It is near major thoroughfares and adjacent to a river. It has some parking but isn't surrounded by 100 acres of asphalt.

Any stadium needs transit access to get people to it. Right now in OKC the only real viable form of transit is a car (I know Sid will disagree, but yeah). That doesn't mean that this should or will remain the case in the future.

If a private organization wants to build a soccer stadium in the middle of a farmer's field and surround it with a square mile of asphalt, that's fine with me. But if the city is involved and we are spending public money, then it should follow the city's plan for future growth. We are taking the first steps towards building what is hopefully a very comprehensive public transportation system. I like the area right around Wiley Post Park. It makes this stadium into a future destination and encourages investment in the immediate area. It also puts it within a short travel time of many of its expected users. People don't have to drive if they live three blocks away. If a stadium were to be built in this area, we would want it to coincide with perhaps a Phase 3 of the streetcar, allowing people to park in any of the downtown garages (presumably fairly empty at night or on the weekends or whenever it is that people play soccer) and have quick and easy access to the stadium. There are cost advantages to doing this, because the stadium is built on less land and doesn't have to include expensive (or expansive) parking areas.

But it needs to be planned out. One thing we haven't been good about has been coordinating all these different projects. Ideally you'd want the streetcar line operational for a few months before the first game, to give businesses time to open and prepare, and get people used to using that route (or at least increase public awareness of said route). If you ran a streetcar down that line every 4 minutes in the hour leading up to a game, and every 4 minutes in the hour after a game, you would need minimal parking immediately in the area. This would give room for a lot more shops and restaurants and things like that.

And I think it should have a Spanish architectural style. Just to be different.

And I think it should have a Spanish architectural style. Just to be different.
I don't think Funk would spring for the Camp Nou (remodel) replica in OKC, Barcelona FC nixed the remodel that would have pushed the stadium to 106,000.

http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/jpgs/barcelona/camp_nou_fosters_oct07_1.jpg

Here's what it really looks like, it holds 99,000.
http://www.lossiantiik.ee/2008/k08-08-14-05.jpg

I was just really thinking something like this:

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/milacroft/milacroft0902/milacroft090200054/4325055-spanish-arena-entrance--architecture-detail-arabic-style--plaza-de-toros-of-caudete-spain.jpg

I was just really thinking something like this:
I knew what you were alluding to, just messin' with you. I did get tired of doing faux-Tuscan buildings in Austin because they are popular there with developers and would rather it have it's own distinct style rather than placing some style from some place else. There are also a lot of varying styles in Spain between the different regions.

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooow. Barcelona is cool.

My fantasy vote: I'd like to see something on the south side of the fairgrounds between Reno and the RR tracks. Curve Reno to the south where needed. Then, clear the development on the south side of Reno to I-40 and tie the fairgrounds to the Oklahoma River and lake. Could see canals dredged from the river up to the stadium area and fairgrounds for a larger entertainment district of some sort.

Somehow Real Madrid puts 100,000 people in a stadium that isn't surrounded by parking lots....the Bernabeu is on my list of "must see" sporting destinations.

http://realmadridvideos.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/bernabeu_stadium.jpg

Surely there is a site in OKC that could eventually accomodate a 21-25,000 seat stadium without being the typical American edifice in a sea of asphalt. Surely there are places like that in the US that we could take the best attributes and emulate them with a bit of OKC style.

http://imagecache6.allposters.com/LRG//35/3595/EOT2F00Z.jpg

of course Madrid does that, how much old city is Madrid, and how long was it around before the automobile was even an idea? not really a fair comparison, but see my picture of Houston's soccer stadium, even in the massive sprawling 713, you can build a stadium downtown without massive asphalt fields.

Any chance there is a Metro station for the stadium? That would explain a lot.

It was an extreme comparison for sure. I agree the Dynamo stadium is a pretty good template. There are a few good sites for such a stadium in OKC now. The Farmer's Market site is particularly intriguing to me - I think the redevelopment potential in that area is immense and it could become a very cool district. Coop, Pull A Part, and Riverside South would make up my top four choices for a future MLS stadium of 21000 or so seats. The Funk concept is better situated somewhere like Remington Park as has been suggested.

Any chance there is a Metro station for the stadium? That would explain a lot.

Quite certain there is - and another reason why getting transit restored in OKC is so important.

Here's what it really looks like, it holds 99,000.
http://www.lossiantiik.ee/2008/k08-08-14-05.jpg[/QUOTE]

I took a tour of Camp Nu last year, only parking for some buses, and the nearest subway portal is about 7 - 8 blocks away.
I can imagine how busy it is on game day.

At Fenway Park there are two stations by the stadium a few blocks away but they are both on the Green Line, it gets awfully crowded after a game. It is definitely not like the Addison stop right by Wrigley Field, 161st/Yankee Stadium stop or the Willets Point stop at Shea Stadium/Citi Field which are adjacent to the property.

The release this week of the Alternative D option for the new Boulevard and the Adventure District Rail Line proposal reinforces the thought that the Farmers Market area would be a viable location for a soccer stadium. (the lot bound by I-40, 3rd Str, Western Ave and Exchange Ave)

Option D not only would connects the Farmers Market to downtown it will bring a parkway of development opportunities to the area. The biggest obstacle to over come would be the parking.

The building of massive parking lots could be avoided by borrowing a page from the ADL proposal. A rail line currently runs on the south edge of the property, on the west this line runs through the state fairgrounds and on the east it passes by the parking lot just east of Ok Land Run Park. Adding simple boarding platforms to the three locations could be done fairly easy.

For those who may not read the sports threads.

http://www.okctalk.com/sports/34546-9k-14k-seat-soccer-stadium-coming.html

The release this week of the Alternative D option for the new Boulevard and the Adventure District Rail Line proposal reinforces the thought that the Farmers Market area would be a viable location for a soccer stadium. (the lot bound by I-40, 3rd Str, Western Ave and Exchange Ave)

Option D not only would connects the Farmers Market to downtown it will bring a parkway of development opportunities to the area. The biggest obstacle to over come would be the parking.

The building of massive parking lots could be avoided by borrowing a page from the ADL proposal. A rail line currently runs on the south edge of the property, on the west this line runs through the state fairgrounds and on the east it passes by the parking lot just east of Ok Land Run Park. Adding simple boarding platforms to the three locations could be done fairly easy.

I like the way you are thinking and that location is very interesting to me. I think it would be relatively easy to provide sufficient parking in the area. The main issue with your idea is that rail line is owned by Union Pacific and they generally do not permit commuter rail operations on their rights of way. It could work if a separate line for the exclusive use of commuter operation was built alongside the UP line - just take a few bucks to do it. Great idea and there is a possibility it could be done, but it isn't a quick fix or process.

If you could separate the stadium from the rest of the complex you could put it in a lot of places downtown, but the land area they are wanting to take up with grass would be cost prohibitive inside the urban core. If we turn downtown OKC and the adjacent area in to 500 acres of park space, soccer fields, and parking lots we will never achieve any kind of density.

Good point JTF - of the two proposed professional soccer stadium complexes, one of them would be appropriate for the downtown area as proposed. The one with 10 fields and huge parking lots surrounding the stdium is best for a location such as the Adventure District as others have suggested. There is a place for those types of complexes, but it would not be the best use of downtown land. I have lost track of what each group is proposing for their stadium, but there have been some great ideas for locations - especially the Farmer's Market idea.