Except I don't think Homeland is interested in selling. They have a fairly unique set-up with employee ownership that's apparently working out real well. Homeland is making some moves, see this: BRR wins Homeland as newest grocery client. | BRR Architecture (http://www.brrarch.com/2013/04/brr-wins-homeland-as-newest-grocery-client/) . The mysterious thing is why they pour all of their money into just a few of their stores. I have a feeling they'll be selling off some of those old stores, and that's why the stepchild treatment and we'll see new Homelands more like May and Britton.
They were "employee owned" back when a group of Safeway Oklahoma employees bought the chain as Safeway was shedding assets to pay off their junk bond scandal in the 80's. They got into trouble again and sold out to AWG before buying themselves back. Benham was "employee owned" when they sold out to Atkins before a group of employees bought themselves back for a fraction of what Atkins paid and have since sold out to SAIC. PBS&J (big E little A firm out of Orlando) was employee owned and sold out to Atkins (as they entered the US market again) because employee ownership was becoming a burden, in most cases you can't get enough employees to commit to an ownership stake as others are retiring, usually the bar is too high for entry for most employees for a large company.

Employee owned has its own rewards and pitfalls, if Kroger or Safeway came in with a strong offer, they would sell. Just the nature of having "employee owners".

I agree. Tulsa is worlds ahead in this area as well as many other areas. I don't see anything changing here in the near future. Wal-Mart has too much control over this market.

OKC would be a perfect expansion market for H-E-B but we can wish all we want, it isn't happening.I disagree. OKC's retail scene is really getting going and I think the grocer revolution is around the corner lol. . .

I really think we'll see Krogers and perhaps Tom Thumb here soon.

Unless they have since shed them, Homeland acquired a fair number of United Food stores about 5 years back. These were/are located outside the metro area.

I believe people are being too hard on Oklahoma City when in comes to grocery options. You quickly forget that we have two chains that are answering the demand for better quality, locally. You, the consumer, have the power to demand better because you are a paying customer. Other cities have demanded better and received better, while some people in OKC spend all their time drooling over options in other cities, then shopping there, while doing nothing to push local grocers for better quality. Crest and Buy 4 Less is making efforts, and those need to be supported if we want to see improvements.

We can always wait for a company outside the market to come in and rescue us, but it doesn't work that way. We can debate until we are blue in the face that part of the problem is lack of market share, and we'd be right, but at the end of the day we let Wal-Mart march in and run the show while we paced back and forth with our heads staring at the floor with "other cities" envy.

Oklahoma City's demographics are much better than in years past, that is just the bottom line. I just spoke with a regional manager at Kroger that emphasized that it doesn't matter if a city has pock-marked high income areas or contiguous high income areas, they are more concerned about market share in a regional trade area.

We need to meet our own desires half way by putting our money where our mouth is as paying customers. If we hate Wal-Mart, don't shop there. If we hate Homeland, let's put together a survey and skewer their upper management for failure to deliver quality products in a quality environment.

I don't think people are being too hard on the OKC grocery options. The truth is that these stores are just inferior to the stores in most other places. A city like Norman, one of the largest in the state, should have a much better selection of grocery stores. Crest is the home of "Rock Bottom Prices" and Buy for Less is clearly emphasizing the low cost of their products. Walmart's motto is "Always Low Prices." Those are our main options...places that all compete on low price, not high quality. Homeland has improved some of their stores, and the Crest stores are OK, but the reality is that, aside from Whole Foods, we do not have the kind of grocery store where you would actually want to sit down and hang out or eat. That's what makes Central Market and Whole Foods so different, and until we get more options like these, I bet the complaints will continue.

..places that all compete on low price, not high quality...


Just for my own curiosity, and for the edification of the broader discussion, could you put that contrast in concrete terms? "High quality" is very subjective. When you use that term, what do you mean, specifically? Store environment? Specific brand availability? Deli counter? Lack of a deli counter? Ample checkout staff? A pharmacy?

The point is that it is easy to bash current selection under a fairly generic veil of "high quality," but as we all know, its very difficult to define quality except to the extent that we all seem to "know it when we see it." I'm really interested to know what you're thinking of when you use that term.




... we do not have the kind of grocery store where you would actually want to sit down and hang out or eat...



And that begs a critical difference in the perception of what a grocery store is supposed to be. I go to a grocery store to (surprise, surprise) buy groceries. I don't go to "sit down and hang out or eat..."

To me, a grocery store is a grocery store, not a coffee klatch. If it increases the operating costs of a "grocery store" by X% that I ultimately see in the prices of my day-to-day goods merely to sustain a place to "sit down and hang out or eat," then that store has very little chance of capturing very much of my business.

That's not at all to suggest that I think providing such a place or wanting such a place is wrong, its just different. It doesn't mesh with my personal expectations. However, I don't think I'm walking a plank of drastic independence to suggest that most people I know view a grocery store in a substantially similar way. It tends to go back to that perception/practicality issue I mentioned in an earlier post.

I don't think people are being too hard on the OKC grocery options. The truth is that these stores are just inferior to the stores in most other places. A city like Norman, one of the largest in the state, should have a much better selection of grocery stores. Crest is the home of "Rock Bottom Prices" and Buy for Less is clearly emphasizing the low cost of their products. Walmart's motto is "Always Low Prices." Those are our main options...places that all compete on low price, not high quality. Homeland has improved some of their stores, and the Crest stores are OK, but the reality is that, aside from Whole Foods, we do not have the kind of grocery store where you would actually want to sit down and hang out or eat. That's what makes Central Market and Whole Foods so different, and until we get more options like these, I bet the complaints will continue.

Norman and SW OKC actually has it good in this area compared to the Northside. It has both Crest Fresh Markets as well a couple of the nicer Homelands. Nowhere in the metro though has the abundance of quality options that Tulsa or any other city has.


Just for my own curiosity, and for the edification of the broader discussion, could you put that contrast in concrete terms? "High quality" is very subjective. When you use that term, what do you mean, specifically? Store environment? Specific brand availability? Deli counter? Lack of a deli counter? Ample checkout staff? A pharmacy?

The point is that it is easy to bash current selection under a fairly generic veil of "high quality," but as we all know, its very difficult to define quality except to the extent that we all seem to "know it when we see it." I'm really interested to know what you're thinking of when you use that term.


You are right, high quality consists of all of those things. Availability, quality of produce, high quality deli counter, store environment, ample checkout staff, etc. Wal-Mart, even in their best Neighborhood Markets, fails at several of these things.

Here is an average Harris Teeter

http://www.araconstruction.com/images/lightbox/harris_teeter/harris_teeter06.jpg

http://projectsocial.businesssocialinc.com/media/uploads/asx_1303159472_harris-teeter-4.jpg

http://50things.mchenryrow.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Harris-Teeter-at-McHenry-Row.jpg

http://projectsocial.businesssocialinc.com/media/uploads/asx_1303159422_harris-teeter-9.jpg

http://www.chesapeakecontracting.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/project_showcase_image/IMG_2374-1-2.jpg


And that begs a critical difference in the perception of what a grocery store is supposed to be. I go to a grocery store to (surprise, surprise) buy groceries. I don't go to "sit down and hang out or eat..."

To me, a grocery store is a grocery store, not a coffee klatch. If it increases the operating costs of a "grocery store" by X% that I ultimately see in the prices of my day-to-day goods merely to sustain a place to "sit down and hang out or eat," then that store has very little chance of capturing very much of my business.

That's not at all to suggest that I think providing such a place or wanting such a place is wrong, its just different. It doesn't mesh with my personal expectations. However, I don't think I'm walking a plank of drastic independence to suggest that most people I know view a grocery store in a substantially similar way. It tends to go back to that perception/practicality issue I mentioned in an earlier post.

The thing is, ANYWHERE else but OKC, these types of stores that most here think are 'different' and upmarket are the standard.

Back in the late '90s/early '00s, grocery chains that couldn't compete with Wal-Mart on price decided to by offering a superior customer experience.


I disagree. OKC's retail scene is really getting going and I think the grocer revolution is around the corner lol. . .

I really think we'll see Krogers and perhaps Tom Thumb here soon.

Do you base that on anything? I hope you are right, but as OKCPulse confirmed, a new national player is unlikely to enter the market going up against a 60% Wal-Mart marketshare. The best case scenario is for Homeland to get bought or somebody local (Crest, Uptown Grocery, Reasor's) to do substantial expansion.

You are right, high quality consists of all of those things. Availability, quality of produce, high quality deli counter, store environment, ample checkout staff, etc. Wal-Mart, even in their best Neighborhood Markets, fails at several of these things.


I'm asking you (or anyone else, for that matter) to define "quality" in specific terms. Don't use "quality" to define "quality." The word isn't concrete. That's my whole point in this discussion. You take it as a given that everyone defines quality the way you do, and that's not realistic nor accurate. What do you mean by "quality" of produce? "quality" of deli counter?

You posted the picture of something called "Harris Teeter," which is nice; its a good looking store, but a nice facade doesn't mean I'm going to shop there. A liquor store (which I believe is on one end) is of absolutely no value to me whatsoever. Does that diminish or enhance its quality?

Again, I'm not trying to bait the discussion, but I am trying to force some concrete perspectives as opposed to "well, XYZ is just better. Its better quality." How, specifically are these places "everyone else has" inevitably better?


Do you base that on anything? I hope you are right, but as OKCPulse confirmed, a new national player is unlikely to enter the market going up against a 60% Wal-Mart marketshare.


Gotta do better than "its WalMart's fault." Crest is making money and building stores. Homeland is making money (finally, apparently, but that's a separate discussion). I see a GFF store in Moore that's been around for years. Aldi's around town is apparently very successful. Whole Foods is apparently doing well. Sprouts just opened, and I don't think they're local (am I wrong on that?). The point is that, somehow, these successful businesses are seeing opportunity you insist isn't there "because Walmart is here." I'm no business expert, but at some point its entirely realistic to suspect a broader/national group will see a potential in an underserved market and take a shot here. The market problem can't be as simple as "WalMart is 60%, we're all doomed" or these other stores simply couldn't succeed. Can't have it both ways.

^^^ Different grocery shoppers have different priorities and different reasons for shopping where they shop. Some its price, others its quality, for others its simply whatever is closest to where they live. For those who are most concerned with price, Wal-Mart is undoubtedly the best option. Even in markets that have these better stores, Wal-Mart still does plenty of business because many shoppers are simply that way - they go where it's cheapest, regardless of anything else. However, the fact Homeland has survived despite its problems and the fact Whole Foods, Sprouts, the new Crests, and Uptown Grocery have been so popular shows there IS a market in OKC for something better.

^^^ Different grocery shoppers have different priorities and different reasons for shopping where they shop. Some its price, others its quality, for others its simply whatever is closest to where they live. For those who are most concerned with price, Wal-Mart is undoubtedly the best option. Even in markets that have these better stores, Wal-Mart still does plenty of business because many shoppers are simply that way - they go where it's cheapest, regardless of anything else. However, the fact Homeland has survived despite its problems and the fact Whole Foods, Sprouts, the new Crests, and Uptown Grocery have been so popular shows there IS a market in OKC for something better.

I'm confused.

How is one this statement not an absolute contradiction of virtually everything else you've asserted in this thread re the impossible, insurmountable 60% dominance of WM??

I'm confused.

How is one this statement not an absolute contradiction of virtually everything else you've asserted in this thread re the impossible, insurmountable 60% dominance of WM??

Those are 5 stores in a metro of 1.3 million people. Add in the select few nice Homelands and you still have less than 10 quality grocery stores in the entire metro. For comparison, Little Rock is a metro of 700,000 and they have 19 Krogers, one Whole Foods, and one Fresh Market.

Bluddogok,
I made a mistake, it was Northwest 39th Expressway and Portland and it wasn't a Baker's, but I remember that a Dentist was the owner of the small Oklahoma chain. And I also think the first stores were in the Mid-Del area.
C. T.

I think it was built as a Baker's, which was out of Nebraska IIRC. I think they sold out to Fleming, wasn't it a Food For Less for awhile before it became Buy For Less?

Didn't OKC have a Price Mart at one time?

Bluddogok,
I made a mistake, it was Northwest 39th Expressway and Portland and it wasn't a Baker's, but I remember that a Dentist was the owner of the small Oklahoma chain. And I also think the first stores were in the Mid-Del area.
C. T.

Hagee's? Pratt's?

Zookeeper,
Pratt's! Thanks, it was driving me crazy.
C. T.

Hagee's? Pratt's?

Soonerman,
We had at least two, one on Northwest Expressway and another one in Edmond. I think there was one in South OKC as well.
C. T.

Didn't OKC have a Price Mart at one time?

Wal-mart will always be king here because OKC will always be a price-conscious city. The vast majority of people shop mainly for national brands (dole, kellogs, etc) on staples and Wal-Mart is virtually ALWAYS cheaper than everybody else on these items. Heck Target (which is more expensive than Wal-Mart) is around 50 cents cheaper PER CAN on Eden's beans than Sprouts. Why the heck would anybody go to Sprouts over Target for everyday items? Whole Foods is like 20% more expensive per tub of Stonyfield greek yogurt than Target. The EXACT SAME PRODUCT.

Meats and prepared food. Yes, Whole Foods is so much better, but come on...

Do you base that on anything? I hope you are right, but as OKCPulse confirmed, a new national player is unlikely to enter the market going up against a 60% Wal-Mart marketshare. The best case scenario is for Homeland to get bought or somebody local (Crest, Uptown Grocery, Reasor's) to do substantial expansion.Unfortunately no. I just have a feeling that OKC will see some better grocers come to town within the next few years.

Wal-mart will always be king here because OKC will always be a price-conscious city. The vast majority of people shop mainly for national brands (dole, kellogs, etc) on staples and Wal-Mart is virtually ALWAYS cheaper than everybody else on these items. Heck Target (which is more expensive than Wal-Mart) is around 50 cents cheaper PER CAN on Eden's beans than Sprouts. Why the heck would anybody go to Sprouts over Target for everyday items? Whole Foods is like 20% more expensive per tub of Stonyfield greek yogurt than Target. The EXACT SAME PRODUCT.

Meats and prepared food. Yes, Whole Foods is so much better, but come on...

I agree with you Wal-Mart will always be king in this market, but hopefully one day there are more higher quality alternatives. Many OKCitians will continue to shop at Wal-Mart no matter what because the lowest price is their top concern. There is nothing wrong with that. I am sure however there are enough people here who would support a higher quality option if it were available. Just take a look at Homeland. They are more expensive than Wal-Mart but in most of their stores provide an inferior product, yet they manage to survive. Now imagine if all Homeland stores were like the one at May and Britton. Then add a couple more Crest Fresh Markets on the Northside to that, and I think Wal-Mart's market share could be bumped down from 60% to around where it is in Tulsa - 45ish%.

Those are 5 stores in a metro of 1.3 million people. Add in the select few nice Homelands and you still have less than 10 quality grocery stores in the entire metro. For comparison, Little Rock is a metro of 700,000 and they have 19 Krogers, one Whole Foods, and one Fresh Market.

Yoohoo!!! Nail on the head!!

Those are 5 stores in a metro of 1.3 million people. Add in the select few nice Homelands and you still have less than 10 quality grocery stores in the entire metro. For comparison, Little Rock is a metro of 700,000 and they have 19 Krogers, one Whole Foods, and one Fresh Market.

Do you know -- are all those Krogers on par with the Crest Fresh Market stores, or on par with some of the lesser Homelands?

I disagree. OKC's retail scene is really getting going and I think the grocer revolution is around the corner lol. . .

I really think we'll see Krogers and perhaps Tom Thumb here soon.
Tom Thumb is Safeway, they were still Dall based Tom Thumb stores when I lived in Dallas but shortly after I moved back to OKC they sold out to Randall's (Houston based) who sold out to Safeway. I really liked Tom Thumb's Simon-David store at Audelia & Skillman.

I do believe someone will enter the market, it is too big for all of the national/regional chains to ignore even with Walmart.

Do you know -- are all those Krogers on par with the Crest Fresh Market stores, or on par with some of the lesser Homelands?

Having lived in Little Rock, I would say the worst of them were on par with the Edmond Crest - one of the best stores in OKC. The best were on the level of Uptown Grocery or a Crest Fresh Market. Little Rock had another chain that folded - Harvest Foods - that were like most Homelands. Dirty, smelly, horrible selection, and looked straight out of 1980.

Having lived in Little Rock, I would say the worst of them were on par with the Edmond Crest - one of the best stores in OKC. The best were on the level of Uptown Grocery or a Crest Fresh Market. Little Rock had another chain that folded - Harvest Foods - that were like most Homelands. Dirty, smelly, horrible selection, and looked straight out of 1980.

Based on the latest demographics and what is being projected, OKC is about to take a serious turn in the retail and grocery market. It is worth noting that before the Wal-Mart invasion, OKC had a decent grocery store selection. I worked at Price Mart in 1997-99 (and another year at the same location after Price Mart was sold) and in those days, you could choose between Price Mart, Albertson's, Homeland, Akin's and the IGA chain.

Then, Price Chopper came in and bought out all of the Price Mart locations, ran them in to the ground (I was still employed at the same location), and then sold the locations out to Homeland. When the sale to Homeland was announced, most of our best employees walked because they knew the cluster Homeland was about to institute. It's too bad the owner of Price Mart over-extended himself, because the food was quality, the selections were awesome and the employees were treated well. Very well.

At that point, Wal-Mart had kicked off its market saturation strategy by using OKC as a test market because of the recent opportunities presented to them by the failures from Price Chopper and subsequently, Homeland. It was the perfect storm.

As OKC's market continues to grow and as demand for non-Wal-Mart locations grows stronger, the days of lack of quality grocery stores are numbered for OKC. And Wal-Mart can feel it. Wal-Mart recently met a ton of opposition to put in a Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market in northern Edmond from area residents. The application to rezone was denied. In the future, I foresee Wal-Mart shifting its focus to areas like Midwest City, Del City, Yukon and Bethany/Warr Acres while more quality stores will want Northwest OKC, Southwest OKC, North-Central OKC, Edmond, Norman and Moore.

Based on the latest demographics and what is being projected, OKC is about to take a serious turn in the retail and grocery market. It is worth noting that before the Wal-Mart invasion, OKC had a decent grocery store selection. I worked at Price Mart in 1997-99 (and another year at the same location after Price Mart was sold) and in those days, you could choose between Price Mart, Albertson's, Homeland, Akin's and the IGA chain.

Then, Price Chopper came in and bought out all of the Price Mart locations, ran them in to the ground (I was still employed at the same location), and then sold the locations out to Homeland. When the sale to Homeland was announced, most of our best employees walked because they knew the cluster Homeland was about to institute. It's too bad the owner of Price Mart over-extended himself, because the food was quality, the selections were awesome and the employees were treated well. Very well.

At that point, Wal-Mart had kicked off its market saturation strategy by using OKC as a test market because of the recent opportunities presented to them by the failures from Price Chopper and subsequently, Homeland. It was the perfect storm.

As OKC's market continues to grow and as demand for non-Wal-Mart locations grows stronger, the days of lack of quality grocery stores are numbered for OKC. And Wal-Mart can feel it. Wal-Mart recently met a ton of opposition to put in a Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market in northern Edmond from area residents. The application to rezone was denied. In the future, I foresee Wal-Mart shifting its focus to areas like Midwest City, Del City, Yukon and Bethany/Warr Acres while more quality stores will want Northwest OKC, Southwest OKC, North-Central OKC, Edmond, Norman and Moore.

I hope you are right about a change coming soon in this area. SW OKC and Norman are already starting to turn the corner in my opinion. They have the better Homelands as well as the Crest Fresh Market stores. Not sure about Norman, but SW OKC has less Neighborhood Markets than most areas of the metro so there may be a correlation there. As for Midwest City, Del City, SE OKC...many places on that side of town are food deserts. Even a Wal-Mart neighborhood market would be welcome, especially in the I-240/Sooner area.

As far as the Edmond Wal-Mart, the NIMBYs also have been strongly opposing Reasor's from going in at Bryant and 15th. If Reasor's gets built, it will be one of, if not the nicest grocery store in the metro area. I think the opposition there is more due to Edmond residents not wanting the noise and traffic from additional grocery stores than it is any opposition to Wal-Mart. Reasor's in my opinion is the wildcard here. If the Edmond location does well, its very possible they could expand further into the metro area and become that quality option many are looking for. It would be great if they could buy up some of the worst Homeland locations as well as the abandoned ones and revamp them.

I hope you are right about a change coming soon in this area. SW OKC and Norman are already starting to turn the corner in my opinion. They have the better Homelands as well as the Crest Fresh Market stores. Not sure about Norman, but SW OKC has less Neighborhood Markets than most areas of the metro so there may be a correlation there. As for Midwest City, Del City, SE OKC...many places on that side of town are food deserts. Even a Wal-Mart neighborhood market would be welcome, especially in the I-240/Sooner area.

As far as the Edmond Wal-Mart, the NIMBYs also have been strongly opposing Reasor's from going in at Bryant and 15th. If Reasor's gets built, it will be one of, if not the nicest grocery store in the metro area. I think the opposition there is more due to Edmond residents not wanting the noise and traffic from additional grocery stores than it is any opposition to Wal-Mart. Reasor's in my opinion is the wildcard here. If the Edmond location does well, its very possible they could expand further into the metro area and become that quality option many are looking for. It would be great if they could buy up some of the worst Homeland locations as well as the abandoned ones and revamp them.Ok, what is NIMBYS???? They sound like one of those awful groups that complain about anything and everything.

Ok, what is NIMBYS???? They sound like one of those awful groups that complain about anything and everything.

Sort of. NIMBY stands for "Not in my backyard." They are usually people who live near a proposed development who try to take action to stop that development from happening. Many times its simply people who don't want to deal with the traffic or noise that development would bring, as is the case for the Reasor's. It's also not uncommon for people in an upscale neighborhood to oppose a middle class neighborhood or an apartment complex going up nearby because of the demographic it would bring. Sometimes they can be environmental activists as well. Other times, they can be perfectly logical, such as the opposition to the Springhill Suites downtown.

Just for my own curiosity, and for the edification of the broader discussion, could you put that contrast in concrete terms? "High quality" is very subjective. When you use that term, what do you mean, specifically? Store environment? Specific brand availability? Deli counter? Lack of a deli counter? Ample checkout staff? A pharmacy?

The point is that it is easy to bash current selection under a fairly generic veil of "high quality," but as we all know, its very difficult to define quality except to the extent that we all seem to "know it when we see it." I'm really interested to know what you're thinking of when you use that term.



And that begs a critical difference in the perception of what a grocery store is supposed to be. I go to a grocery store to (surprise, surprise) buy groceries. I don't go to "sit down and hang out or eat..."

To me, a grocery store is a grocery store, not a coffee klatch. If it increases the operating costs of a "grocery store" by X% that I ultimately see in the prices of my day-to-day goods merely to sustain a place to "sit down and hang out or eat," then that store has very little chance of capturing very much of my business.

That's not at all to suggest that I think providing such a place or wanting such a place is wrong, its just different. It doesn't mesh with my personal expectations. However, I don't think I'm walking a plank of drastic independence to suggest that most people I know view a grocery store in a substantially similar way. It tends to go back to that perception/practicality issue I mentioned in an earlier post.

I think others have already answered this in my absence, but when I say high-quality it captures a lot of what you've described. In other words, it's not just one thing. It means an attractive store environment, including the interior and exterior, and it means a selection of interesting products and speciality items that you might not find everywhere. For instance, the Crest Market is nice, but when I've been there, it sometimes seems like they just have a lot of regular products rather than lots of speciality products. Also, a quality grocery store, as I define it, should have a bakery where everything isn't just pre-packaged. For instance, Crest, Walmart, and Homeland all carry some of the same pre-made cupcakes. I'd like to have a grocery store that actually makes their own cupcakes. And, yes, the deli should be good, and there should be a broad selection of pre-prepared foods that you can take home or eat at the store. Whole Foods offers these things, but it is really focused on organic products. This goes back your other question. If they have a dining area, live music, a coffee shop, a gelato counter, and a great gathering place, is it really a grocery store? Maybe not, but these kind of grocery stores (like Central Market in Dallas) can be found in lots of places outside of Oklahoma, and they are curiously absent here. Maybe Walmart is somewhat to blame (I'm not entirely convinced), but it is baffling to me that we have very few options like this in the entire metro area. I spend a lot of time in Northern VA, outside of Washington, DC. There you can find a lot of different grocery stores like Harris Teeter, Wegmans, Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, Giant Food, and others. I guess it just depends on what you're used to. Like you, sometimes I just want groceries, but sometimes I want something more, and if I do, I basically have Whole Foods (and even our Whole Foods is smaller than others I have been to). Again, I wish we had some chains that whose slogans weren't "Low Prices," "Rock Bottom Prices," and "Buy 4 Less." That just tells you that they are focused on low cost, which is typically inversely correlated with an upscale offering.

I think others have already answered this in my absence, but when I say high-quality it captures a lot of what you've described. In other words, it's not just one thing. It means an attractive store environment, including the interior and exterior, and it means a selection of interesting products and speciality items that you might not find everywhere. For instance, the Crest Market is nice, but when I've been there, it sometimes seems like they just have a lot of regular products rather than lots of speciality products. Also, a quality grocery store, as I define it, should have a bakery where everything isn't just pre-packaged. For instance, Crest, Walmart, and Homeland all carry some of the same pre-made cupcakes. I'd like to have a grocery store that actually makes their own cupcakes. And, yes, the deli should be good, and there should be a broad selection of pre-prepared foods that you can take home or eat at the store. Whole Foods offers these things, but it is really focused on organic products. This goes back your other question. If they have a dining area, live music, a coffee shop, a gelato counter, and a great gathering place, is it really a grocery store? Maybe not, but these kind of grocery stores (like Central Market in Dallas) can be found in lots of places outside of Oklahoma, and they are curiously absent here. Maybe Walmart is somewhat to blame (I'm not entirely convinced), but it is baffling to me that we have very few options like this in the entire metro area. I spend a lot of time in Northern VA, outside of Washington, DC. There you can find a lot of different grocery stores like Harris Teeter, Wegmans, Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, Giant Food, and others. I guess it just depends on what you're used to. Like you, sometimes I just want groceries, but sometimes I want something more, and if I do, I basically have Whole Foods (and even our Whole Foods is smaller than others I have been to). Again, I wish we had some chains that whose slogans weren't "Low Prices," "Rock Bottom Prices," and "Buy 4 Less." That just tells you that they are focused on low cost, which is typically inversely correlated with an upscale offering.

Exactly. I do want to correct one thing - Tulsa does have these stores so I don't think its as much of an Oklahoma problem as it is an OKC problem. I don't think people who haven't spent much time other places realize what OKC is missing. I'll go as far as to say its not so much an 'upscale' offering that OKC needs but a mid-range one. I would consider H-E-B and Kroger decidedly mid-range.

I don't think people who haven't spent much time other places realize what OKC is missing. I'll go as far as to say its not so much an 'upscale' offering that OKC needs but a mid-range one.We had such stores, 30 years ago. For example, McCartney's, which was the original occupant of the NW Hiway and Rockwell location that's now Aldi's. McCartney's used almost the entire building, from the Ace Hardware on its east clear out to and including the PetCo area on its west. They featured a seafood department, a custom butcher shop that rivalled Kamp's in both quality and variety, and a wide range of products -- but were unable to survive as the area deographics changed.

Others followed in that location, but both the size of the store and its range of products grew smaller with each failure. The current occupant has such a limited choice that I've never found reason to return after my first visit there. And all of these failures pre-date WalMart's entry into the grocery business in the area; the giant did take advantage of the problem, but we cannot blame them for its existence.

I believe that the change in demographics due to the 1982 Penn Square Bank crisis, followed by failure or buy-out of almost all the existing financial institutions of OKC as the dominoes continued to fall, created the "low prices uber alles" mindset that has brought us to the current state of affairs -- and also that the current renaissance of OKC is being reflected in the rise of such stores as those cited by others in this thread. After all, when one hits rock bottom the only way out is up!

I am surprised that no grocery stores offer home delivery in Oklahoma City. I know Schwann's and a few others maybe out there but, I thinking more along the lines of traditional stores. I figured Homeland or Crest would have jumped on it a long time ago. All you need is a cargo van or one of the little mini commercial trucks with refrigerator unit on it. I figured people would be willing to pay $10-$25 for delivery depending on the distance from the store.

If nothing else, I figure somebody would have started online orders and drive thru pickup. I think many people would pay for delivery or pickup if it meant they could avoid 30 minutes to an hour of gathering what they needed and standing in line at the checkout.

Wal-mart will always be king here because OKC will always be a price-conscious city. The vast majority of people shop mainly for national brands (dole, kellogs, etc) on staples and Wal-Mart is virtually ALWAYS cheaper than everybody else on these items. Heck Target (which is more expensive than Wal-Mart) is around 50 cents cheaper PER CAN on Eden's beans than Sprouts. Why the heck would anybody go to Sprouts over Target for everyday items? Whole Foods is like 20% more expensive per tub of Stonyfield greek yogurt than Target. The EXACT SAME PRODUCT.

Meats and prepared food. Yes, Whole Foods is so much better, but come on...

Wal-Mart is definitely not the cheapest by far. I compare prices and shop around. I live near a Wal-Mart but drive to But For :ell on 23rd & Penn. I save 30% over Wal-Mart. It is not the best store to look at but The prices, especially the sales can't be beat. I do shop at Wal-Mart sometimes for convenience and am amazed at how pricey their groceries are in general compared to others.

Wal-Mart is definitely not the cheapest by far. I compare prices and shop around. I live near a Wal-Mart but drive to But For :ell on 23rd & Penn. I save 30% over Wal-Mart. It is not the best store to look at but The prices, especially the sales can't be beat. I do shop at Wal-Mart sometimes for convenience and am amazed at how pricey their groceries are in general compared to others.

I agree. Personally I think Wal-Mart continues to dominate on the fact people perceive it to be cheaper on groceries. On top of that, people love the one stop shopping aspect of Wal-Mart. No need to go to a grocery store, hardware store, and variety store when you can get it all in one place. Familiarity also has quite a bit to do with it. My family, who are fully aware of the business practices of Wal-Mart, continue to insist on shopping there because they always have and it's what is familiar to them.

We had such stores, 30 years ago. For example, McCartney's, which was the original occupant of the NW Hiway and Rockwell location that's now Aldi's. McCartney's used almost the entire building, from the Ace Hardware on its east clear out to and including the PetCo area on its west. They featured a seafood department, a custom butcher shop that rivalled Kamp's in both quality and variety, and a wide range of products -- but were unable to survive as the area deographics changed.

Others followed in that location, but both the size of the store and its range of products grew smaller with each failure. The current occupant has such a limited choice that I've never found reason to return after my first visit there. And all of these failures pre-date WalMart's entry into the grocery business in the area; the giant did take advantage of the problem, but we cannot blame them for its existence.

I believe that the change in demographics due to the 1982 Penn Square Bank crisis, followed by failure or buy-out of almost all the existing financial institutions of OKC as the dominoes continued to fall, created the "low prices uber alles" mindset that has brought us to the current state of affairs -- and also that the current renaissance of OKC is being reflected in the rise of such stores as those cited by others in this thread. After all, when one hits rock bottom the only way out is up!

And let's not forget Wehba's Grand Bazaar and I-240 and Walker, which vastly predated even McCartney's (and McCartney's eventually took over that space years later). They had drive-up, canopied grocery loading, they were among the first in OKC to use UPC price scanners and electronic cash register systems, had a full-service bakery and fish counter...you name it, they had it, and they were very successful for several years. I don't know why the bottom fell out of them (it eventually did, and the place was empty for a long time before McCartney's took it over, and then, years later, Pratts, which folded).

And to roll the clock back just a bit further, keep in mind that Wal Mart was in essentially all of the surrounding states back in the 70's (albeit not exactly in their current form), but not in Oklahoma due to the presence of TG&Y. It wasn't until TG&Y took its ill-fated venture into "higher-end" shopping (anyone remember the awful "Aim for the Best" stores?) that led them to bankruptcy and opened the barn door wide and free to let WalMart in.

Does anybody know if Buy For Less has any more Uptown Grocery locations planned or if the far north Edmond location is it?

Crest is expanding their Fresh Market stores, if ever so slowly. Buy For Less could cover the Northside pretty well with a couple more locations. Gaillardia would be a great place to start.

And let's not forget Wehba's Grand Bazaar and I-240 and Walker, which vastly predated even McCartney's (and McCartney's eventually took over that space years later). They had drive-up, canopied grocery loading, they were among the first in OKC to use UPC price scanners and electronic cash register systems, had a full-service bakery and fish counter...you name it, they had it, and they were very successful for several years. I don't know why the bottom fell out of them (it eventually did, and the place was empty for a long time before McCartney's took it over, and then, years later, Pratts, which folded).
Those stores seemed to do real well until the oil bust hit, for the most part they were just ahead of their time in the OKC market.


And to roll the clock back just a bit further, keep in mind that Wal Mart was in essentially all of the surrounding states back in the 70's (albeit not exactly in their current form), but not in Oklahoma due to the presence of TG&Y. It wasn't until TG&Y took its ill-fated venture into "higher-end" shopping (anyone remember the awful "Aim for the Best" stores?) that led them to bankruptcy and opened the barn door wide and free to let WalMart in.
That was after the local TG&Y ownership had sold to someone else and became nothing more than another cog in a large corporation who really didn't understand what they meant to this market. The same thing happened with Anthony's.

Walmart is cheaper. Period. $300 buys you a nearly two cart full of groceries at Walmart, the same will buy you maaaybe one Cart at Homeland. I've people at Sprouts with half a cart and racked up $250 bill. There is nothing wrong with Walmart and these documentaries paint it in the worst picture. I agree they can be harmful to the local economy, but business is business. The strong survive and the weak perish. Some businesses will have to die so others can profit. That is the way or goes.

Me personally, out of preference I shop at Sprouts and Uptown Grocery because I want to support "local" business. Walmart is not a bad company though, I'll give few examples. The one in Edmond had a lot of grime and crap accumulating on the outside wall facing Santa Fe, I wrote a letter to Corporate and literary within a week or two, they had someone with pressure washer, washing the exterior. When I lived in Dallas, they had one on Coit Rd. and G.B. Turnpike, I would buy fish from them occasionally and their selection was awful and their fish were dead half of the time, wrote a letter to corporate and in two months, they replaced all the tanks and have one of the best fish selections I've ever seem to this day(I was just there yesterday). Most recently, back in March I bought two computer monitors from them, had dual setup and one of them didn't work properly, they said they had discontinued that model and didn't have anymore and just because I wanted matching monitors, the manager took back the ones I bought and gave me a newer, better pair worth more than the old ones at no extra cost.

So I believe Walmart does care about its customers and though they can have some bad effects on small local economies, it's up to the people to decide what they want at the end of the day. Portland is a Greta example, if I'm not mistaken, they banned Walmart from there. I could be wrong on that, but I believe I heard it somewhere on here. I love this site, but like it or not, the people on this site represent a small minority of OKC and the people that live in this city choose to shop at Walmart. That just the way it goes.

Overall, I think there are about 5 super centers I would like to see replaced with an HEB(which I must add are nothing special) and that would be great. There are also places that could use a Walmart Super Center like the one being built Choctaw. That's just me though. I would've loved to had seen the original developement in Belle Isle, but it didn't happen and we need to move on I bigger and better things. Hopefully Belle Isle will get a face lift, as I stated I a previous thread.

Either way, want to see stores like Kroger, Harris Teeter, Tom Thomb, Central Market come in and give more options to people here. I want this city to have better shopping options and just don't believe Walmart is keeping them out. I also think that one or more of those Grocers coming here is right around the corner.

Walmart is cheaper. Period. $300 buys you a nearly two cart full of groceries at Walmart, the same will buy you maaaybe one Cart at Homeland. I've people at Sprouts with half a cart and racked up $250 bill. There is nothing wrong with Walmart and these documentaries paint it in the worst picture. I agree they can be harmful to the local economy, but business is business. The strong survive and the weak perish. Some businesses will have to die so others can profit. That is the way or goes.

Me personally, out of preference I shop at Sprouts and Uptown Grocery because I want to support "local" business. Walmart is not a bad company though, I'll give few examples. The one in Edmond had a lot of grime and crap accumulating on the outside wall facing Santa Fe, I wrote a letter to Corporate and literary within a week or two, they had someone with pressure washer, washing the exterior. When I lived in Dallas, they had one on Coit Rd. and G.B. Turnpike, I would buy fish from them occasionally and their selection was awful and their fish were dead half of the time, wrote a letter to corporate and in two months, they replaced all the tanks and have one of the best fish selections I've ever seem to this day(I was just there yesterday). Most recently, back in March I bought two computer monitors from them, had dual setup and one of them didn't work properly, they said they had discontinued that model and didn't have anymore and just because I wanted matching monitors, the manager took back the ones I bought and gave me a newer, better pair worth more than the old ones at no extra cost.

So I believe Walmart does care about its customers and though they can have some bad effects on small local economies, it's up to the people to decide what they want at the end of the day. Portland is a Greta example, if I'm not mistaken, they banned Walmart from there. I could be wrong on that, but I believe I heard it somewhere on here. I love this site, but like it or not, the people on this site represent a small minority of OKC and the people that live in this city choose to shop at Walmart. That just the way it goes.

Overall, I think there are about 5 super centers I would like to see replaced with an HEB(which I must add are nothing special) and that would be great. There are also places that could use a Walmart Super Center like the one being built Choctaw. That's just me though. I would've loved to had seen the original developement in Belle Isle, but it didn't happen and we need to move on I bigger and better things. Hopefully Belle Isle will get a face lift, as I stated I a previous thread.

Either way, want to see stores like Kroger, Harris Teeter, Tom Thomb, Central Market come in and give more options to people here. I want this city to have better shopping options and just don't believe Walmart is keeping them out. I also think that one or more of those Grocers coming here is right around the corner.

Interesting that Wal-Mart actually took into account your suggestions. I wonder what would happen if I suggested they staff the Neighborhood Market near me with more than one cashier at 6PM. The Supercenters are too big and are a hassle for regular grocery shopping (for me at least) but I could handle the Neighborhood Markets if they were better staffed and better stocked. The Neighborhood Market in west Edmond at Western and 164th is usually embarrassingly bad every time I've been in it.

Interesting that Wal-Mart actually took into account your suggestions. I wonder what would happen if I suggested they staff the Neighborhood Market near me with more than one cashier at 6PM. The Supercenters are too big and are a hassle for regular grocery shopping (for me at least) but I could handle the Neighborhood Markets if they were better staffed and better stocked. The Neighborhood Market in west Edmond at Western and 164th is usually embarrassingly bad every time I've been in it.I've never been to the one in west Edmond. I occasionally go to the one on 2nd and Bryant. Haven't been enough to determine how many cashiers their are. That might be a tough one, even if it was a Kroger it would be tough to get it through, but it's worth a shot. I was surprised to see them power wash the walls, but they did. Of course, it could always be a coincidence as they only wrote me back when I sent them the suggestion for fixing the fish center, never wrote me back after the grime issue.

Walmart is great if you feeding an army. However, it's not that cheap if your feeding a family of four or less. I do most of my grocery shopping at Crest and only pickup a few things at Walmart on occasion.

Walmart has also cut back on the variety of products. They have a few national brands and they are flooding the shelves with their private label goods. I think if their private label takes off you can pretty much guarantee they will go the Aldi route (only carry their brands). I also have issues with their breads. Most of the bread is stale when we get it. Crest on the other hand is almost always light and fluffy. The Reno Crest has the best bread stock in my opinion.

Interesting that Wal-Mart actually took into account your suggestions. I wonder what would happen if I suggested they staff the Neighborhood Market near me with more than one cashier at 6PM. The Supercenters are too big and are a hassle for regular grocery shopping (for me at least) but I could handle the Neighborhood Markets if they were better staffed and better stocked. The Neighborhood Market in west Edmond at Western and 164th is usually embarrassingly bad every time I've been in it.

"Handling" the Neighborhood Markets tends to run contrary to fighting their impenetrable, dominating 60% market share, doesn't it?

MWCGuy,
Isn't bread the responsibility of the bread vendor? That's the way it used to work, I don't think stores keep bread in their warehouses. I believe it's delivered and the older bread is removed a couple of times a week. I have been out of the grocery business for a while, so something may have changed.
C. T.
I also have issues with their breads. Most of the bread is stale when we get it. Crest on the other hand is almost always light and fluffy. The Reno Crest has the best bread stock in my opinion.

The reality that seems to be escaping a great many here is that no one store has an absolute claim to the lowest prices. Each store/company has its own revenue and pricing models and sales strategies that, on any given week, might make a few things cheaper at X rather than Y. It comes down to knowing their pricing cycles and which items are penned as loss leaders for each store to get people in the building. You have to know your prices, and be willing to make a few trips here and there if you really want to capitalize on the best deals - but even that rapidly becomes a trade-off for the "hassle factor" (not to mention gas expense) of going from store to store. I will say, for us, that Homeland is a rare visit as, in general, we have found their prices to be predictably higher on most things most times - such that the exception is so rare there's not much point in validating it each time.

The other thing to keep in mind is that no one has really been able to nail down this term "quality" in any substantive way. "Better" selection, "better" bakery, a "better" experience...all nice terms, but not concrete, and all subjective from person to person.

We again have to caution ourselves on the snob appeal factor when it comes to places like Aldi's, because, whether we want to admit it or not, a great many of those exact same items are on the shelves at "regular" stores for 50%, 100% more only because they pour them into a different box or put a different label on them at the end of the production line.


(re Wehba's et al) Those stores did well until the oil bust hit...

True, but I have a vague recollection of Wehba's having its own internal financial issues outside the oil bust that were at least a part of their failure.

Dave, I think it comes down to preference. Some people will always shop for the lowest price no matter what. As far as quality, while different people have different standards as to what that is, there is a definite segment of people who will pay a little bit more for a better product or better shopping experience, whatever that entails for them. Look at it from the perspective of variety stores Target vs Wal-Mart. Target is more expensive than Wal-Mart and is overall a cut above by most metrics. It's the same with groceries. Stores like Kroger, Harris Teeter, Publix, H-E-B are a cut above Wal-Mart and there is definitely a market out there who will pay a little bit more for what those stores provide. All people are saying is that OKC should have those options and is probably the only major city in the country that does not.

For a comparison to variety stores, most of OKC's regular grocery stores are like Big Lots or Dollar General. They are alternatives to Wal-Mart but not really an upgrade like Target is.

Dave, I think it comes down to preference. Some people will always shop for the lowest price no matter what. As far as quality, while different people have different standards as to what that is, there is a definite segment of people who will pay a little bit more for a better product or better shopping experience, whatever that entails for them....

For a comparison to variety stores, most of OKC's regular grocery stores are like Big Lots or Dollar General. They are alternatives to Wal-Mart but not really an upgrade like Target is.

I would peg the alternatives as higher than Big Lots/DG, but I see the point.

I think one way WM has, in fact, miscalculated the OKC market (in spite of their apparent success) is in their selection. The Neighborhood Markets have perpetually offered an annoyingly limited selection of, perhaps, only two, maybe three varieties of a particular kind of product. We'd ask a manager about that, and he'd say "well, we're only a neighborhood grocery store." I think that, in no small measure, is precisely why Crest is enjoying their success and why the NM's have, the last year or so, had to (albeit slightly) rethink themselves a bit. We rarely visit the NM's anymore.

If nothing else, I figure somebody would have started online orders and drive thru pickup. I think many people would pay for delivery or pickup if it meant they could avoid 30 minutes to an hour of gathering what they needed and standing in line at the checkout.

Uptown Grocery has online ordering.

We rarely visit the NM's anymore.The only reason that I go to a Neighborhood Market is for pharmaceuticals. Walgreens, where I get my prescriptions, has dropped many name-brand OTC products in favor of their house brands, but they are still available at the NM a half-block away. For groceries, my main store is Crest -- but the brand of bread that I prefer is no longer carried there, so I go to Homeland to get it. By far the widest range of products is at the BuyFor Less at NW Hiway and the Parkway, but that's too far away for regular visits...l

The Buy for Less on NW Expressway just feels like Dollar General to me, much less some of the other locations. I do like some of the extra selection though for some items.

The Buy for Less on NW Expressway just feels like Dollar General to me, much less some of the other locations. I do like some of the extra selection though for some items.

Buy for Less on NW Expressway isn't bad. It's about as good as it gets in OKC. I agree their store appearance could use some updating but as far as selection and quality there aren't very many places around here that are better. I usually shop there rather than Wal-Mart.

I wish Albertson's would have stayed in the market. They somewhat filled the niche that is now lacking here. It has been said their stores here were inferior to other markets, but I am sure they would have stepped up their game with the arrival of Whole Foods, Sprouts, and the new Crest. Albertson's has deeper pockets and would have been more likely to invest in their stores than Homeland.

I heart Native Roots. Still my favorite store in OKC. We buy all of our groceries there (feeding 5).yeah, forgot about them. They are much more local than Sprouts, I just don't want to drive from Edmond to DD, but I have occasionally. Are they doing well?

Walmart is great if you feeding an army. However, it's not that cheap if your feeding a family of four or less. I do most of my grocery shopping at Crest and only pickup a few things at Walmart on occasion.

Walmart has also cut back on the variety of products. They have a few national brands and they are flooding the shelves with their private label goods. I think if their private label takes off you can pretty much guarantee they will go the Aldi route (only carry their brands). I also have issues with their breads. Most of the bread is stale when we get it. Crest on the other hand is almost always light and fluffy. The Reno Crest has the best bread stock in my opinion.

Guess who makes most of your private label stuff? The same company who makes the national brand equivalent.

Not a high-end grocery chain but one that could be coming to OKC:

http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic-issues/34528-big-retailer-eyeing-okc-tulsa-7.html#post674414

That is far from the type of grocer OKC needs (looks more like the low-end Buy For Less stores) but nonetheless it should shake up the market. What will be interesting is how many locations there ends up being and how the existing grocers in the market respond.

I also don't consider the kind of grocer most of us here wish OKC had to be high end. Stores like H-E-B (not Central Market), Kroger, Harris Teeter, Reasor's, etc are all middle of the road. Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, Flagship Randall's, H-E-B Central Market, The Fresh Market, etc are high end.

is Trader Joe's really "high end?" i don't consider them so, just hipster-ish

What is The Fresh Market? Never heard of them.

There are plenty of HEB's in Texas that are not Central Markets that are what I'd consider high end. Both HEB's in Katy are amazing.

That is far from the type of grocer OKC needs (looks more like the low-end Buy For Less stores) but nonetheless it should shake up the market. What will be interesting is how many locations there ends up being and how the existing grocers in the market respond.

I also don't consider the kind of grocer most of us here wish OKC had to be high end. Stores like H-E-B (not Central Market), Kroger, Harris Teeter, Reasor's, etc are all middle of the road. Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, Flagship Randall's, H-E-B Central Market, The Fresh Market, etc are high end.

I agree it's not "high end", which in my opinion means extra amenities but usually overpriced for the most part. It's also not a "low-end Buy for Less." As I mentioned in the "Big Retailer Eyeing OKC and Tulsa" thread, I was in a WinCo for several days last week in California and it is far superior to Wal-Mart in just about every respect. It is a huge, clean, bright, well organized store with a giant selection of brand name items. The aisles are very wide with plenty of room for customers to shop without frustration, and the bakery and meat dept. is top notch. What it doesn't have is a pharmacy, bank, hair salon, fast food, hot food buffet, cheese bar, coffee shop, or other retail inside it. They only take cash or debit cards, but have a ton of registers and self checkout lanes. Their prices overall are less than Wal-Mart's, and they don't require any bulk purchases like Sam's or Costco to save money. But they do have many bulk items available that save you even more money if you choose to do so. They also do not have the "flyer" mentality where they bring the customers in on select advertised super cheap items they put on sale...and then have other basic grocery items priced 30% higher like the Homeland's and Buy For Lesses do. They also don't rely on gimmicks like double or triple coupons, requiring the customer to work like hell to save money on their groceries.

I'm not saying it's the greatest supermarket ever, but I think it will really challenge Wal Mart for market share if my sources are correct and they are indeed the retailer looking at expanding to OKC and Tulsa. I will also say that "hipsters" won't find this an attractive destination for their grocery shopping either for obvious reasons I won't delve into. WinCo has only publicly announced two new locations in McKinney and Ft. Worth here in the next few months, which are the first of many stores they plan on opening in the region. We'll see what happens after that...

I agree it's not "high end", which in my opinion means extra amenities but usually overpriced for the most part. It's also not a "low-end Buy for Less." As I mentioned in the "Big Retailer Eyeing OKC and Tulsa" thread, I was in a WinCo for several days last week in California and it is far superior to Wal-Mart in just about every respect. It is a huge, clean, bright, well organized store with a giant selection of brand name items. The aisles are very wide with plenty of room for customers to shop without frustration, and the bakery and meat dept. is top notch. What it doesn't have is a pharmacy, bank, hair salon, fast food, hot food buffet, cheese bar, coffee shop, or other retail inside it. They only take cash or debit cards, but have a ton of registers and self checkout lanes. Their prices overall are less than Wal-Mart's, and they don't require any bulk purchases like Sam's or Costco to save money. They also do not have the "flyer" mentality where they bring the customers in on select advertised super cheap items they put on sale...and then have other basic grocery items priced 30% higher like the Homeland's and Buy For Lesses do. They also don't rely on gimmicks like double or triple coupons, requiring the customer to work like hell to save money on their groceries.

I'm not saying it's the greatest supermarket ever, but I think it will really challenge Wal Mart for market share if my sources are correct and they are indeed the retailer looking at expanding to OKC and Tulsa. I will also say that "hipsters" won't find this an attractive destination for their grocery shopping either for obvious reasons I won't delve into. WinCo has only publicly announced two new locations in McKinney and Ft. Worth here in the next few months, which are the first of many stores they plan on opening in the region. We'll see what happens after that...

Good points. In my opinion anything that challenges Wal-Mart's dominance is a step in the right direction and this chain looks to do just that. As much as I would love a Kroger or H-E-B, this is really what OKC needs at this point in time. A lower Wal-Mart marketshare should also help make the market more attractive to the higher end chains if/when the liquor laws are changed.

True, but I have a vague recollection of Wehba's having its own internal financial issues outside the oil bust that were at least a part of their failure.
That might have been the case, I was more familiar with McCartney's since it was on the northside and its closing seems to coincide with the bust. Events like the bust can expose an already tenuous financial situation.


The Buy for Less on NW Expressway just feels like Dollar General to me, much less some of the other locations. I do like some of the extra selection though for some items.
Don't go to the one at NW 36th & MacArthur then....I did prefer the NW Expressway store when it was Baker's but since I lived in the area and it was close it was where I went the most.


Buy for Less on NW Expressway isn't bad. It's about as good as it gets in OKC. I agree their store appearance could use some updating but as far as selection and quality there aren't very many places around here that are better. I usually shop there rather than Wal-Mart.

I wish Albertson's would have stayed in the market. They somewhat filled the niche that is now lacking here. It has been said their stores here were inferior to other markets, but I am sure they would have stepped up their game with the arrival of Whole Foods, Sprouts, and the new Crest. Albertson's has deeper pockets and would have been more likely to invest in their stores than Homeland.
I don't think Albertson's has as deep of pockets as others, they ran into financial issues, thus the reason why they left the OKC, Austin and other markets. There are only like 8-10 of them left here in the whole Denver metro area and you can find plenty of their old buildings around. Two of the WMNM that we drive by are former Albertson's stores.

Not a high-end grocery chain but one that could be coming to OKC:

http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic-issues/34528-big-retailer-eyeing-okc-tulsa-7.html#post674414

If this is true, it is an enormous disappointment. Yet another "no frills" lowest price store. Seriously, how many low budget options do we need in the metro? I went to one of these stores in Boise, Idaho this year. It was awful. Please, can't we just get another Whole Foods or two? I'm giving up on anything else...

More Whole Foods? Does your wallet enjoy that raping?

If this is true, it is an enormous disappointment. Yet another "no frills" lowest price store. Seriously, how many low budget options do we need in the metro? I went to one of these stores in Boise, Idaho this year. It was awful. Please, can't we just get another Whole Foods or two? I'm giving up on anything else...

I agree. It should give Wal-Mart some competition but is not a game changer by any means. I was hoping it would at least be a Safeway or something.

More Whole Foods? Does your wallet enjoy that raping?

I'd much rather have my wallet raped. There are already plenty of low budget options around the metro. Lets diversify it... please...