Not sure if NW 39th and Portland counts as the urban core but the WinCo there is open 24 hours, same with the Crest at NW 23rd and Meridian.

Not sure if NW 39th and Portland counts as the urban core but the WinCo there is open 24 hours, same with the Crest at NW 23rd and Meridian.

Oh I forgot about the WinCo. I ended up going to NW 23rd and Meridian. Still, that's a long ways from downtown.

Very few downtowns have 24/7 grocery stores.

In OKC, there are several convenience stores that serve that need.


And if you were counting the 23rd & Penn Walmart as the core, 39th & Portland is only 3 miles away.

Very few downtowns have 24/7 grocery stores.

In OKC, there are several convenience stores that serve that need.


And if you were counting the 23rd & Penn Walmart as the core, 39th & Portland is only 3 miles away.

and the bell isle supercenter is even closer than that

and the bell isle supercenter is even closer than that

No longer open 24/7. They now close at midnight.

No longer open 24/7. They now close at midnight.

thanks i didn't know that

I was able to spend a few hours picking the brain of Kim Eskew the CEO of Harps Food (a 91 chain ESOP grocery company), he also is on the board of directors for AWG. Harps is primarily growing by acquisition, buying up stores that independent grocers are selling as they're ready to retire and sales have slipped for them. I was able to ask him if he had any interest in the OKC area since they acquired a couple stores last year just outside OKC, and he kind of admitted the OKC market is a pickle for grocery companies currently. I know Harps has scouted the OKC area quite thoroughly, and he did say he's in talks with two chains, one of which is in Oklahoma for potential acquisition but any deal is probably years off.

Some of his observations were:

You've got Walmart with 50% of the market, you have a fair number of Aldi's but they haven't really taken off in the area like they normally would in a sprawling metro. They do fine, but they're not setting records or anything. People would be dumb to ever count out Crest Foods he said, Bruce would probably go bankrupt fighting to keep their last penny. They also have the low price but great customer service part of the business on lockdown in the area. From the data he can get Winco was expected to generate $750,000 - $1,000,000 a week in sales at each location, and he currently believes they are doing half that if not 1/3 of that. With the majority of Winco's business happening on EBT days. In fact he has heard the OKC market expansion went so poorly for Winco they put on hold expansion ideas in similar markets. And companies like Buy For Less are essentially going bankrupt building $11 million dollar stores to cater to a market that may not quite be there yet for the area. He sees potential in 28,000-40,000 sq foot nice, well maintained stores in quieter suburbs rather than over the top marble castles that take you 25 years to profit off of.

He thinks the OKC market needs to mature a bit more before anyone really tries to rock the boat. And with Walmart slowing expansion that may happen sooner than expected, but he did say he could see some success with a small (24,000 sq foot) upscale market integrated downtown that focused on ready meals and nightly shopping on the way home or to your hotel.

^^^ Great info and actual facts/thought process from somebody in the business instead of just speculating on why our current situation is the way it is, thanks for posting that.

I was able to spend a few hours picking the brain of Kim Eskew the CEO of Harps Food (a 91 chain ESOP grocery company), he also is on the board of directors for AWG. Harps is primarily growing by acquisition, buying up stores that independent grocers are selling as they're ready to retire and sales have slipped for them. I was able to ask him if he had any interest in the OKC area since they acquired a couple stores last year just outside OKC, and he kind of admitted the OKC market is a pickle for grocery companies currently. I know Harps has scouted the OKC area quite thoroughly, and he did say he's in talks with two chains, one of which is in Oklahoma for potential acquisition but any deal is probably years off.

Some of his observations were:

You've got Walmart with 50% of the market, you have a fair number of Aldi's but they haven't really taken off in the area like they normally would in a sprawling metro. They do fine, but they're not setting records or anything. People would be dumb to ever count out Crest Foods he said, Bruce would probably go bankrupt fighting to keep their last penny. They also have the low price but great customer service part of the business on lockdown in the area. From the data he can get Winco was expected to generate $750,000 - $1,000,000 a week in sales at each location, and he currently believes they are doing half that if not 1/3 of that. With the majority of Winco's business happening on EBT days. In fact he has heard the OKC market expansion went so poorly for Winco they put on hold expansion ideas in similar markets. And companies like Buy For Less are essentially going bankrupt building $11 million dollar stores to cater to a market that may not quite be there yet for the area. He sees potential in 28,000-40,000 sq foot nice, well maintained stores in quieter suburbs rather than over the top marble castles that take you 25 years to profit off of.

He thinks the OKC market needs to mature a bit more before anyone really tries to rock the boat. And with Walmart slowing expansion that may happen sooner than expected, but he did say he could see some success with a small (24,000 sq foot) upscale market integrated downtown that focused on ready meals and nightly shopping on the way home or to your hotel.

I never could see the Winco market. I have Crest and now Costco (was Sams). Winco kind of slots in between and I have no need. Thats my opinion. I can see Winco not surviving too many other choices plus you have to bag. Crest and Costco are both about customers where Winco is not.

If Winco can't survive then that is embarrassing for OKC.

I disagree with that man's take on Winco. EVERY time I go there, it has a lot of people (heck, any time I drive by it, there are a lot of cars). I doubt they are struggling as bad as he said. But whatever makes OKC look worst, I suppose.

I love Winco and the one at 39th & Portland is always very busy.

Every grocery chain is being squeezed by fierce competition and all are worried about where Amazon is headed, as they could stand the industry on its ear.

Aldi is actively scouting for more sites in OKC, so they are clearly doing well here.

And that 'Walmart has 50% of the market' stat gest thrown around a lot, but: 1) That's an old number and is for the entire state, not OKC; 2) It was long before Winco, Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Sprouts and Costco came to town.

Think about this logically: Do you think fully half the groceries in the OKC market are bought at Walmart? I'd be surprised if it was 25%.

We complained about the lack of good grocery choices in this town, but things have changed dramatically in the last 5 years. I can now say that I have much better choices within 3 miles of my house than I ever did anywhere I lived in California.

Some time back, I think I read on this board that there was talk of a grocery store being built in far NW OKC, like in the area of May and 192nd. Has anyone heard anything about this?

Some time back, I think I read on this board that there was talk of a grocery store being built in far NW OKC, like in the area of May and 192nd. Has anyone heard anything about this?

I’ve heard a couple of different grocers were close to pulling the trigger on the NW corner of May and NW 164th. Something in that area will happen in due time. Obviously the 1-mile demographics are amazing and 3-mile ain’t half bad.

I love Winco and the one at 39th & Portland is always very busy.

The one in Moore is never very busy but it's kind of located in a Bermuda Triangle of Crest's with the Moore (12th and Eastern), Norman (I-35 and Robinson) and, SW OKC (104th and May) in close proximity to it.

I pretty much only shop there for bulk items and meat when I'm doing a catering. Majority of my grocery shopping is still at Crest.

Some time back, I think I read on this board that there was talk of a grocery store being built in far NW OKC, like in the area of May and 192nd. Has anyone heard anything about this?

It's been in the "planning phase" for a while.

https://agenda.okc.gov/sirepub/cache/2/jso1tzjgcdx4wd2mn054xk45/303570706292019122023404.PDF

The new liquor laws are also definitely changing the dynamic of the grocery market here. Beer/wine is a huge profit generator and when grocers could only sell 3.2% beer that made it a challenge.

The new liquor laws are also definitely changing the dynamic of the grocery market here. Beer/wine is a huge profit generator and when grocers could only sell 3.2% beer that made it a challenge.This must be true. Large sections of both of the Homelands we go to have been dedicated to wine.

But, almost all the new grocers came to OKC before the laws changed.

The new liquor laws are also definitely changing the dynamic of the grocery market here. Beer/wine is a huge profit generator and when grocers could only sell 3.2% beer that made it a challenge.

I agree! With the extra revenue stream, stores don't have to solely rely on grocery sales (seems weird to say, but it is true). I always see people frequenting the beer and wine aisles of grocery stores now.

I'll be honest, I've shopped at the NW 39th and Portland WinCo dozens of times and while it is my 2nd favorite grocery store in the Metro (behind the Crest at SW 104th & May), I've never felt like that store was doing incredibly well in terms of business. Possibly I'm just good about going during off-peak hours, but that parking lot just never seems to be very full for a store that's light years ahead of every other option within a 5 mile radius.

I’ve heard a couple of different grocers were close to pulling the trigger on the NW corner of May and NW 164th. Something in that area will happen in due time. Obviously the 1-mile demographics are amazing and 3-mile ain’t half bad.

Thanks for the info! I hope Sprouts is one of them.

Has anyone been to Public Warehouse Grocery Store at 16th and Drexel? My wife was reading about it on Facebook. Sounds like quite a different concept - get credits for free items that are at or just past expire date.

^^^^^^ is that the old Homeland / Mexican grocery location?

^^^^^^ is that the old Homeland / Mexican grocery location?

Yes

^channel 9 had a nice segment on this store tonight. Really positive deal.

I'm hearing the Smart Saver on 23rd and MLK is shutting down. Such an interesting history there, formerly Hometown Markets, then sold to the Buy For Less Group, who was going to develop it into a massive complex with an Uptown Market anchoring which eventually fell through and now it's just kind of sat there. I find it very hard to believe someone can't make that property work, it has to be a potentially very valuable piece of real estate. What a corner to have a business on.

It's true about that store:

https://freepressokc.com/only-full-service-grocery-store-on-east-side-closing-monday/?fbclid=IwAR3rXs5UVz7KKM5AwH4rBJZpITXrk80xzZuoSJCv HOj7YRsWWNXipJ7r9Yc

I’m sure it will be said that it’s closing because people didn’t support it. But parking lot stayed full and lines were usually long.

So what’s next for Eastside OKC getting a full service grocery?

I had heard that the NE 23rd / MLK site had some environmental problems - anybody else hear that? It's a shame the nice grocery store at NE 36th and Kelly didn't work out....

Buy for less owners promise Uptown Grocery for northeast side:

https://freepressokc.com/buy-for-less-owners-promise-full-grocery-on-east-side-in-60-90-days/?fbclid=IwAR0zha7hhRTjvh7NO5cCghtHZNIFUdnilcoK46SL oFXouqLt58YLCIpwzVs

Buy for less owners promise Uptown Grocery for northeast side:

https://freepressokc.com/buy-for-less-owners-promise-full-grocery-on-east-side-in-60-90-days/?fbclid=IwAR0zha7hhRTjvh7NO5cCghtHZNIFUdnilcoK46SL oFXouqLt58YLCIpwzVs

Had to check the date on the story to make sure it wasn't just a mistaken rehash of this from 2014:

https://oklahoman.com/article/4889118/pockets-of-oklahoma-city-metro-area-are-food-deserts-leaving-residents-without-grocery-stores

"A 49,000-square-foot Uptown Grocery also will be the anchor tenant for the $30-million King’s Crossing development at NE 23 and Martin Luther King Avenue — the first new grocery store in the area in half a century."

Nice to see they might be able to finally get something going, the area desperately needs a *real* grocery store, but I'm definitely taking a wait-and-see approach.

I'll try to remember to bump this thread on November 15th once 90 days have passed and there's still no Uptown Grocery open in that shopping center.

After reading the article, I'm not convinced there is a commitment. I hope it works out and a nice store is opened.

Press release from the city of OKC:

***************

Ward 7 Councilwoman Nikki Nice welcomes Homeland grocery store and HQ plans in northeast Oklahoma City

08/26/2019

Ward 7 Councilwoman Nikki Nice welcomes Homeland’s plans to open a full-service grocery store and headquarters building in northeast Oklahoma City, a long-awaited and anticipated development to help end the food desert crisis.

“A brand new, full-service grocery has been a continuous process for northeast Oklahoma City,” said Councilwoman Nice. “I want to thank Marc Jones and the Homeland board for their work. This is a carefully planned, thoughtful project that’s more than just a store. Every City Council representative from Ward 7 since 1993 has worked toward this moment: Willa Johnson, Skip Kelly, John Pettis and Lee Cooper, plus so many other residents. I am honored to be part of a team that has worked so hard to meet a need in our community.”

Homeland announced Monday it intends to open a 30,000-square-foot grocery store at NE 36th Street and Lincoln Boulevard with a pharmacy, custom butcher shop, bakery, deli, fresh produce and more. It will be adjacent to a new 35,000-square-foot national corporate headquarters.

The investment of at least $16 million will create up to 75 new jobs. The grocery store will open in late 2020 or early 2021, with hiring to begin in 2020.

Councilwoman Nice noted there’s been an ongoing conversation for decades about the need for expanded grocery options in northeast Oklahoma City. The area is recognized as a food desert by the Regional Food Bank of Oklahoma and the Lynn Institute.

“This is another tool in the toolbox to provide healthy food options to everyone in northeast Oklahoma City,” said Councilwoman Nice. “Homeland is locally owned and employee owned. It pays living wages. This is what a true investment in your community looks like. This is another of many efforts to come as we continue the renaissance of northeast Oklahoma City.”

Homeland’s announcement is tied to a letter of intent with a new limited liability corporation (LLC), which will own and develop the grocery store and headquarters building. The Alliance for Economic Development of Oklahoma City is a member of the LLC, along with Endeavor Corporation and ESmith Legacy Communities.

As negotiated by the Alliance, Homeland and the other members of the LLC, the City will contribute funds from the Northeast Renaissance tax increment finance (TIF) district to support the project.

“This is only part of our ongoing commitment to address food insecurity in our northeast Oklahoma City communities,” said Councilwoman Nice. “Please visit neokcfood.com to see other programs we have to help people who need it. We also thank Mayor David Holt and my colleagues on the City Council, because it will take continued long-term, broad support to meet our goals as we move forward together.”

So Oppurtunity Zone isnt enough, we have to give them TIF too? Why does anything Binkowskis say or do have me side eyeing it?

FYI, Homeland looked hard at putting their new HQ and grocery store at The Hub development on 13th & Broadway.

Not sure why they decided against it, other than perhaps it was too close to their remodeled store at 18th & Classen.

FYI, Homeland looked hard at putting their new HQ and grocery store at The Hub development on 13th & Broadway.

Not sure why they decided against it, other than perhaps it was too close to their remodeled store at 18th & Classen.
Too bad, because that would have been PEFECT!!

Too bad, because that would have been PEFECT!!

I like it where they are building it. NE OKC has needed a true grocery store for years. This will be amazing for that community. I think AA and Midtown have a much better chance of getting a grocer than NE OKC does if this store had picked The Hub.

Credit to Homeland.

They've been lousy in the past but their new CEO has done a great job and it was under his leadership that the renovation at 18th & Classen finally happened.

I was in that store just the other day and it made me very happy, where the old place -- my closest grocer at the time -- made me beyond sad.

Credit to Homeland.

They've been lousy in the past but their new CEO has done a great job and it was under his leadership that the renovation at 18th & Classen finally happened.

I was in that store just the other day and it made me very happy, where the old place -- my closest grocer at the time -- made me beyond sad.

Agreed. I enjoy that Homeland (I have plenty of clients near there, so I get groceries before heading home to I-240 and Sooner). I hope they do that will all of their stores.

So Oppurtunity Zone isnt enough, we have to give them TIF too? Why does anything Binkowskis say or do have me side eyeing it?

Homeland is not associated with the Binkowskis - they're Uptown and Buy4Less.

And if they build it to the level of the renovated one on 18th/Classen, yay! We normally go to Uptown, but are now splitting our time with about 1/4 - 1/3 of our trips to that Homeland, as Pete said, it's soooooooooooooooo much better than it was (shark at the meat counter, Peet's packaged coffee, all kinds of things way beyond what a normal run-of-the-mill grocery store would carry).

Homeland is not associated with the Binkowskis - they're Uptown and Buy4Less.

And if they build it to the level of the renovated one on 18th/Classen, yay! We normally go to Uptown, but are now splitting our time with about 1/4 - 1/3 of our trips to that Homeland, as Pete said, it's soooooooooooooooo much better than it was (shark at the meat counter, Peet's packaged coffee, all kinds of things way beyond what a normal run-of-the-mill grocery store would carry).

Yes, my bad.

Agreed. I enjoy that Homeland (I have plenty of clients near there, so I get groceries before heading home to I-240 and Sooner). I hope they do that will all of their stores.

I'm surprised I-240 and Sooner still doesn't have a grocery store.

As far as Homeland goes, I think most of the run down ones have gone out of business. It's definitely a great sign for them that they've remodeled the 18th and Classen store and are now opening this location.

I'm surprised I-240 and Sooner still doesn't have a grocery store.

As far as Homeland goes, I think most of the run down ones have gone out of business. It's definitely a great sign for them that they've remodeled the 18th and Classen store and are now opening this location.

Either out of business or converted to Cash Savers, which are actually very interesting stores. I love going to the one in Mustang. Always very clean and such friendly staff. Definitely some real bargains to be had if you know where to look.

Even the “newer” Homeland stores (mostly old Albertsons stores) are getting major renovations. This new CEO has done much to signal they are not to be counted out in the grocery wars.

I'll try to remember to bump this thread on November 15th once 90 days have passed and there's still no Uptown Grocery open in that shopping center.

Here's your bump.

now that it's near 2020, how would everyone rate OKC's grocery store options? I know there are still a few food deserts and there's plans in the works for the big one on the eastside, but barring that - what are resident's feelings of OKC's options regardless of how close they are to you? Has OKC matured into a market that can support multiple grocery options? Is Walmart still the largest grocer? High end? What are your thoughts?

I think more what changed the game was Amazon and meal subscription services like Hello Fresh. I use Walmart at least weekly for milk, sugar, etc. I use Trader Joe's for flowers, hostess gifts, impulse items. They are like the Target of groceries for impulse purchasing. I really was never impressed by Uptown Grocery, and use Whole Foods for most heat and serve items. I don't use Sam's or Costco because I don't have many mouths to feed but my own.
I do wish we had a decent delicatessen. Cheevers closed their Cafe C which I used when I was closer to downtown. An Eatzis or a Brooklyn style deli would be nice.

now that it's near 2020, how would everyone rate OKC's grocery store options? I know there are still a few food deserts and there's plans in the works for the big one on the eastside, but barring that - what are resident's feelings of OKC's options regardless of how close they are to you? Has OKC matured into a market that can support multiple grocery options? Is Walmart still the largest grocer? High end? What are your thoughts?

We have come light-years in the last 5 years or so.

We have added Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, Costco, and Winco. Homeland and Crest have done a good job. Uptown Grocery has 2 very nice, upscale stores. Aldi is a great option and has expanded. Sprouts is great for what they do.

The middle-market stores are still a little weak, but that sector is dying anyway, squeezed by the specialty grocers and deep-discounters. And really, Winco (which I love) more than covers everything the middle-market traditional grocers offer and doesn't require you to buy in massive quantity.

I shop at Trader Joe's, Sam's (because I live very close to one that is incredibly easy to get in and out of) and Winco. I'll occasionally make the trip to Costco but it's too far for me to make it into my regular shopping rotation, but I will keep my membership there. I live very close to an Aldi which is fine, but I don't patronize it very often. I'm relatively close to Whole Foods and Sprouts, but I've never been a fan of either.

At least in my area (close to Penn Square) I have all the options I could ask for.

I personally would like to have either Winco or Crest closer to our neck of the woods. Just this past year we have switched to shopping more at Aldi and moving away from WM, even though we have one just under a mile away. We do like some of the products offered at Crest, such as Turkey Hill Ice Cream, hence why we would love to have one closer. I am disappointed that our local Buy For Less switched over to a Cash Saver or whatever crap idea that is. I wouldn't mind an Uptown, but it would come third to Crest and Winco. I still would love for some one to bring Wegman's to OKC.

Did Uptown come through on their promise to have a grocery store up and running by Nov?

Did Uptown come through on their promise to have a grocery store up and running by Nov?

Nope.

I wonder how Urban Agrarian is faring up in Edmond? For the price point, I am more likely to use Whole Foods, but they are great spot for hostess gifts like fancy syrups, etc.

I wish OKC could get a store like H.E.B. Signature store. That is one of my favorite places to shop when in Houston.

I hear that the profit margins for grocery stores are razor thin. If OKC wants better quality grocery stores like Central Market or HEB then it will take OKC landing lots of white collar jobs and corporate HQ moves to OKC! In addition, it will take high disposable incomes! OKC needs those high profile companies moving from California with people bringing their money and investing in OKC!

I hear that the profit margins for grocery stores are razor thin. If OKC wants better quality grocery stores like Central Market or HEB then it will take OKC landing lots of white collar jobs and corporate HQ moves to OKC! In addition, it will take high disposable incomes! OKC needs those high profile companies moving from California with people bringing their money and investing in OKC!

Yep they are incredibly thin. The old grocery joke is if you make a dollar you are lucky to keep 2 to 3 pennies of that. A store like Crest probably aims to make 15% gross profit on most grocery items and dips as low as 5-10% on their hot items then hopefully make 30-40% on beauty care, non food, specialty food items and bakery/deli and produce. But then you factor in labor and insurance can cost you about 10%, transaction fees are 3-5% now and just general expenses like utilities are another 5% you're not making much money at the end of the day. Crest is a little unique in that they say they own everything, have no loans, pay cash for everything so they aren't beholden to anyone but their own bottom line.

Most medium and large chains of course have some amount of debt or loans to keep a credit line with their financers in case a large acquisition presents itself and they need to borrow short term to make it happen. So a lot of small chains are constantly in a state of paying off loans or weathering dips in the industry with their small amount of cash on hand. Or just trying to make improvements to their stores every 5 to 10 years just to stay "fresh". Grocery stores get "aged" faster than almost any other retail industry for a few reasons. Changing consumer habits being a huge one, you invest huge into fresh foods in the mid 2000's because everyone's trying to eat healthier so you take out some of your frozen cases and expand your bakery and deli and then a freak pandemic hits and now consumers are nervous of anything being touched by humans and are instead wanting those frozen staples. Another is simply traffic. Grocery stores on the medium size have 1200-1800 customers a day. A Crest probably gets 4000 or so customers per day if not more. That is so much foot traffic and wear on your assets.

So to really succeed in the grocery industry you almost have to overcome that plateau of being a small chain of 6-10 stores and stuck churning finances to growing to a medium chain of 100-200 locations where you are secure financially as long as you are extra careful and you don't expand too quickly but you also keep renovating your older locations, a medium chain usually falls into two categories even then. Those that are rural good solid stores or urban high end stores like an almost HEB or so. Then you might become a large chain like a Publix that has so many resources in warehouse bulk buying and supply bulk buying that you can cut your costs down to where you can build large gorgeous stores constantly if you want to.

It's a really fascinating industry. Very curious to see how the next couple of decades treat it.

I was thinking this morning, would it be nice to have Lidl come to Oklahoma. Also was thinking, wish Winco would build the Memorial rd store. I guess it will be a long time for either of these to be built. Oh well, we are better now then a few years ago. And yes we need more white collar ie $$$$ jobs to come to Oklahoma City and the surrounding areas.

I'd put all three WinCo locations as well as the three newest Crest locations (SW OKC, Norman, Yukon) up against anything in any other Metro at their respective price points. That means most of the OKC area has a high-quality store or two within reasonable driving distance. The glaring exceptions are obviously North OKC and Edmond, and given that, it'll be interesting to see if the Chisholm Creek WinCo ever comes to fruition, as well as the long-rumored Crest at Covell & I-35. I also wonder if the Piedmont/Deer Creek area eventually gets something good as that part of town continues to grow at a relatively rapid pace.

^

There is a Crest at 15th & Santa Fe in Edmond.