I live across the street from Ski Island, but rarely go through there. I did last weekend and its a fascinating place. The entire concept is awesome, and I can see why it was the bees knees in the 70s.

As far as comparing to Austin, I always compare to Houston because its where I'm from. I hope where I live doesn't turn into what Alief has turned into back home.

Deed restrictions may claim to be perpetual, but in actual fact they aren't. In the early 80s, many of the newer neighborhoods in OKC had a deed restriction that required only wooden-shingle roofs; all types of asphalt shingles were prohibited. My own home has one of those restrictions -- but the last three roofs I've installed (thanks to hailstorms) have been asphalt, and the same is true for every other home in this development.

Why the change? In the last part of the 20th century, the Lakehurst neighborhood on N May, between Wilshire and Britton, suffered a huge fire. I don't remember how many homes were destroyed, but it was in the dozens. It started on a very windy day as a simple one-structure blaze, but the area was one in which only wood shingles were allowed, and it had been a hot, dry, summer. As the wind carried embers from one house to the next, the entire area burned.

Very shortly thereafter, the courts ruled that such deed restrictions were against the public interest, and cancelled all of them permanently, at the state level.

My point is that ANY deed restriction can be overturned by the courts, at any time, given any happening that can provide an excuse for doing so. In this case, I believe the ruling was good. I only wish that the restriction that requires me to pay dues to a homeowners association that provides absolutely no benefit to me had also been overturned somewhere along the way...

Race was also a standard deed restriction, too. Things like lending schemes, occupancy standards, etc dont draw the some common sense ire as racial or safety issues though.


I live across the street from Ski Island, but rarely go through there. I did last weekend and its a fascinating place. The entire concept is awesome, and I can see why it was the bees knees in the 70s.

As far as comparing to Austin, I always compare to Houston because its where I'm from. I hope where I live doesn't turn into what Alief has turned into back home.

When I was growing up my family briefly moved to Houston and then moved back and we lived around Westheimer and Eldridge Pkwy which was pretty close to Alief. There were some cheap diners we'd frequent down there, but yeah it was really rough. It's somewhat difficult to tell where the interesting suburban Chinatown ends and the vapid sprawl ghetto of Alief begins, but SW Houston in general was trashy back then. I'd hate to see how bad it is now.

Though I understand the Sharpstown area, which has homes really similar to Ski Island around the Compaq Center area, is seeing a major resurgence. Houston's renaissance cycle seems much more driven by commute times than architectural preservation. OKC isn't at that tipping point though.

I would just say that general trends have many, many exceptions. Sure the Wilshire Hills area west of Council has gone way down but they are outnumbered by the nicer suburban neighborhoods imo.

I live across the street from Ski Island, but rarely go through there. I did last weekend and its a fascinating place. The entire concept is awesome, and I can see why it was the bees knees in the 70s.

As far as comparing to Austin, I always compare to Houston because its where I'm from. I hope where I live doesn't turn into what Alief has turned into back home.

Btw pahdz you may love this old 2006 commentary on Westheimer that I just dug up almost as much as I do
The Sole of Houston - Page 1 - News - Houston - Houston Press (http://www.houstonpress.com/2006-10-12/news/the-sole-of-houston/)

It's a brilliant piece of urban humor covering up insightful points about suburban sprawl.

I grew up in Katy (as did my entire family) but lived in Westchase post college (Richmond and Wilcrest).

What's amazing is, the aread from Highway 6 to the Beltway between I-10 and Westheimer is what's considered thed Energy Corridor and the homes are going for astronomical rates. There is just resurgence everywhere in Houston, even in what used to be "the burbs."

Yeah I remember several skyscrapers going up, some in the middle of neighborhoods like Eldridge and Richmond...most on Westheimer or the Katy Fwy tho. Gotta love the zoning-free ethos.

I read somewhere that the Katy area was around 300,000 people now, which is patently nuts. We never even had a single reason to go that far west.

But on the bright side at least you've got great, smooth roads out there...some of them are too smooth. I have no clue why they repaved SE 89 near I35. There was nothing wrong with it.

Race was also a standard deed restriction, too. Things like lending schemes, occupancy standards, etc dont draw the some common sense ire as racial or safety issues though.
I had a copy somewhere of one of the old plat maps in the West Nichols Hills area dated in the early 50's, right there on the map was a statement about the "Sundown Rules" in the area right there on the plat map.

Putnam City's main problem is that too many apartment complexes(most of them section 8 housing) exist in there district.

Speaking as an apartment dweller most people who live in apartments could care less about the community they live in. The average apartment dweller is like the common cockroach they only care about themselves. They have no concern for the property of others and the property of the community. In the beginning apartment complexes are great places. As time goes on they age and depreciate. Eventually the time arrives when the original owner sales so they can build new complexes and make money.

After a series of being sold from one management company to the next the complex is eventually sold to a slum lord who only cares about rent checks. They don't care about the tenants or the problems they cause for the neighbors. They keep city hall at bay with big money lawyers.

My nieces and nephew attended Wiley Post and every year they were there the school was having to add security measures and replace equipment thanks to the apartment dwellers that neighbor their school.

I know this is about roads, but i wanted to chime in on NW OKC.

I love the area ski lake neighborhoods and generally the entire PC North area and wish i lived there back in its heyday. We lived there for a short time and I would really like to move back. I just get slightly depressed when im in the area because of the constant sprawl cycle and perceiving the area is in decline. I honestly think areas in Edmond are in much greater decline (or the blah that is being thrown up in moore, yukon,mustang, etc) , and I know with out a doubt that all these 100-150 cookie cutter neighborhoods that are being put in are the ghettos of tomorrow. OKC in general is such a suburban city, i really wish we could follow Colorado's lead and implement tighter building restrictions to stop all this sprawl so people would go back and fill in all the empty urban spaces and keep home values high.

With all that said, i fully acknowledge im part of the problem and more than likely will find myself buying a overpriced urban home in the next 20 years because im too much of a chicken to be the first one. But - There is one way around this when you add magnet schools in the areas. If you improve school district options and give parents a way to make sure that their kids will be with other children who want to learn and succeed it greatly reduces the risk. I'm a product of the Tulsa Magnet school programs and its what kept us in the city while growing up. Now my spelling and grammar, that's my own doing.

Wiley Post is the exact reason we are looking to move (unless we can send her to Dennis). I don't know where she read it, but my wife said she saw somewhere that its one of the worst elementaries in the metro. I don't doubt it, it's like glorified day care for all the kids in the apartment next door.

I've always felt strong families rather than schools are the basis of strong communities. In today's anti-intellectual k-12 system, simply replacing tv time with reading time should be enough to keep your kids at the head of the class. At the end of the day, public education is just another government program, wherever it is.

I cannot speak to Putnam City Schools, but there are quality options in OKC for elementary and middle school.

I've always felt strong families rather than schools are the basis of strong communities. In today's anti-intellectual k-12 system, simply replacing tv time with reading time should be enough to keep your kids at the head of the class. At the end of the day, public education is just another government program, wherever it is.

I don't disagree with you completely, but you can't ignore that there is still some learning in K-12. I don't want my child held back because her teachers have to spend so much time trying to discipline out of control kids.

Putnam City's main problem is that too many apartment complexes(most of them section 8 housing) exist in there district.

Speaking as an apartment dweller most people who live in apartments could care less about the community they live in. The average apartment dweller is like the common cockroach they only care about themselves. They have no concern for the property of others and the property of the community. In the beginning apartment complexes are great places. As time goes on they age and depreciate. Eventually the time arrives when the original owner sales so they can build new complexes and make money.

After a series of being sold from one management company to the next the complex is eventually sold to a slum lord who only cares about rent checks. They don't care about the tenants or the problems they cause for the neighbors. They keep city hall at bay with big money lawyers.

My nieces and nephew attended Wiley Post and every year they were there the school was having to add security measures and replace equipment thanks to the apartment dwellers that neighbor their school.

Lyrewood and NW 122/Penn come to mind. The latter was even nice just ten years ago.

This kind of decay happens fast, and when it hits, it hits hard.

Congregating all the apartments together creates these areas that move down market when the new apartments open up. If you look at complexes that are kind of by themselves, they tend to stay in decent shape as long as they are held by a good management company. I remember when the ones in West OKC were nice apartments, heck Bobby Murcer and his wife lived in the Heritage House apartments near NW 10th & Meridian during the off season when he was starting to play for the Yankees. You could run into him at the 10-M grocery on the corner. As MWCGuy stated, as soon as they move down market and start getting turned over from buyer to buyer it doesn't take long. The best thing for the PC District would be razing a bunch of them.

When I moved back from Dallas in 1993 I moved into the Northgreen complex (renamed Lincoln Greens when LPC bought them) at NW 122nd & Penn and those were considered nice apartments. It wasn't too long after that the rest of the complexes started the down market slide.

NW Tenth is another epic apartment slum corridor

The best thing for the PC District would be razing a bunch of them.

Yeah, I'm with you, but see how well that goes over. Cries of discrimination and racism would be heard all throughout the area.

This may not be the case with anyone in this thread, but I get the feeling that for some an increase in minorities in a given area creates a sense of "ghetto" or "run-down" in their mind. I graduated from North about 6 years ago, and when I finish with my masters this next year (hopefully) I am considering moving back to that area. I grew up in the neighborhoods near wiley post, and although they aren't like they used to be, I actually enjoyed the great mix of students at my schools and neighborhood. IMO, the PC district, at least for north, has a great mix of both wealth and lower income that gives the more well off kids exposure to those that aren't as wealthy as them; it gave me a sense of appreciation. At the same time, it gives children from lower income households the opportunity to go to a good school. I have a friend from deer creek who has complained to me about the new apartment complexes popping up around rockwell, and how its gonna change the district. But if managed correctly, like i said above, I think it can benefit everyone.

But back to moving to the North area when I graduate, the only reason I hesitiate is because I like everyone is running out (from what I read here, and what I hear from those who still live there). But I feel that if people weren't scared of a little change & people who don't look like them, and instead didn't move away, the issues you all are discussing would be minimized. Now I have no kids, so I don't have a dog in that fight, but I do know that I want my future kids to go to a school that isn't 90% white, for example. I have seen too many of my friends at OU who come from suburban schools who are uncomfortable around groups of black students, or don't really know how to interact with people different than them. I would never wan't my children to be like that.

I don't either (want my white kid to go to lilly white schools), but where do you draw the line in sacrificing your kids education in the name of assimilation?

I don't care who lives around me or in my neighborhood, but if you're not keeping it up, and have a general "I don't give an F" attitude (whether you're white or non-white), I don't care to live near you or send my kids to school with your kids.

Well, you have to find a school where character is strong. For example, some private schools are known for being quite diverse.

Even though I graduated from Westmoore and had a great youth there, Classen SAS is where I will be sending my kids if it's still the same as it is now. I appreciate the diversity and uniqueness of both their curriculum and student body.

You don't get that in Edmond.

Putnam City still has great teachers. Now I don't have any statistics to back this up, but I would assume that the reason you see a difference in test scores and ratings between wiley post and Dennis for example, would be because the difference in parental support for their children's education. Since these schools are in the same district, and the teachers are held to the same standards (I assume) this seems to me to be a great example of how the same teaching techniques and standards can have different results when applied to different demographics. But that discussion is for another day.

I went to school with plenty of people who had parents that didn't give a damn, and you could tell by the attitude of their kids and eventually their lack of success. But For myself, and for those like me who had support at home, there was nothing keeping me from getting an excellent education, even though the rating number next to my school may not be as high as one in a nearby suburb. But to answer your question, you solve it by not moving out in mass quantities in the first place. Granted, that will never stop (at least in OKC for the near future), but it would fix the issue.

Classen SAS is where I will be sending my kids if it's still the same as it is now. I appreciate the diversity and uniqueness of both their curriculum and student body.To do that, you'll have to live within the CSAS district and even then they will have to qualify for the program. In its infinite wisdom, the OKC school board is severely limiting enrollment to CSAS and not allowing any transfers to it. Can't have it showing up the other schools in the district...

Is SAS only for arts & performing arts, or are there other subjects it focuses on?

It also doesn't have sports, does it? That's an automatic no for me.

Spartan...we're looking at several different private schools, and I agree that many offer far more diversity than Edmond North, Deer Creek, etc.

Is SAS only for arts & performing arts, or are there other subjects it focuses on?

It also doesn't have sports, does it? That's an automatic no for me.

Spartan...we're looking at several different private schools, and I agree that many offer far more diversity than Edmond North, Deer Creek, etc.

SAS has two tracks: One is arts / the other is International baccalaureate. So, it is the city's best arts / music / performing arts school, and it's the city's best academic school. Arts oriented students have the option of taking IB classes. It's the highest ranked school in the state most years.

As for sports, it doesn't have a football team but it's girl's basketball team is very good. It offers other sports like tennis, soccer, etc.

Thanks, I was unaware. Not to sound dumb-jockish, but I hope my daughter plays them because I feel my wife and I both learned valuable lessons and made great friends in sports over the years.

NW Tenth is another epic apartment slum corridor
Yep, most of those on the south side of 10th and west of Peniel/Rockwell directly affect the Western Heights district. I do remember when those were considered some of the nicer apartments in OKC.

Thanks, I was unaware. Not to sound dumb-jockish, but I hope my daughter plays them because I feel my wife and I both learned valuable lessons and made great friends in sports over the years.In addition to the girls' basketbakk team, they field a swimming team that's been doing quite well in competition.

Lyrewood and NW 122/Penn come to mind. The latter was even nice just ten years ago.

You have to be careful about conflating decay with minority presence. Has there been a spike in crime or drop in property values? If that area were 10 miles further south I suspect you would be calling it "urban chic".

Well, you have to find a school where character is strong. For example, some private schools are known for being quite diverse.

Even though I graduated from Westmoore and had a great youth there, Classen SAS is where I will be sending my kids if it's still the same as it is now. I appreciate the diversity and uniqueness of both their curriculum and student body.

You don't get that in Edmond.
As I hinted earlier, the unspoken assumption is that public school teachers are the authoritative dispensers of education. Disciplined academic inquiry is the main ingredient to a good education and can be taught and learned in any stable environment.

I can only speak to one experience with Lyrewood, but after May 20th my friend and his wife and two kids stayed for a few nights at a friends house in off Lyrewood. That place is run down. I don't care that minorities were hanging out outside, but every house and yard looked like total dog crap. Kinda sad, because it looks like it was once a pretty neat area. Twin Lakes is a great little neighborhood but it's backed up to slums.

I drive this road all the time and I am glad to see that work will be done on it:

Do you know if there are any plans to redo the May Avenue bridge over Northwest Expressway? That bridge looks like a section of the old I-40. Also, the north-south roads of May north of 50th, south of 63rd seem to have gotten worse with all of the rain we have been getting. Is it a drainage issue? Thanks in advance.

Gary

Thanks for the question, Gary.

City Traffic Engineer Stuart Chai says, regarding the May Avenue bridge over Northwest Expressway in the very near future: “This fall, the city has plans to repair asphalt patches, seal longitudinal cracks and remove, straighten and replace the handrail under the city's bridge rehabilitation unit price contract.”

That should help.

Enjoy your week and drive safely.

Traffic Talk: Learn the routes | News OK (http://newsok.com/traffic-talk-learn-the-routes/article/3869092?custom_click=columnist)