And locations you think would best suit them.

1. Ikea (I-35 in Edmond. It would work for all the colleges in oklahoma and most of Kansas)
2. Trader Joe's (downtown)
3. Costco (not sure where to put it, probably out on I-40)
4. Crate and Barrel (Classen Curve area)
5. Kate Spade (Penn Square Mall) so my wife will quit complaining about driving three hours to shop there

1. Trader Joes (Uptown / 23rd)
2. Kroger or other nicer grocery chain (everywhere)
3. Bloomingdales or Nordstrom (Penn Square)
4. Costco (Memorial, I-40 west, Midwest City, Moore)
5. Restoration Hardware (Penn Square)

I only have one..... Sportsmen's Warehouse.

Moore would be nice but having one back anywhere in OKC would make me really happy.

1. Trader Joes (Uptown / 23rd)
2. Kroger or other nicer grocery chain (everywhere)
3. Bloomingdales or Nordstrom (Penn Square)
4. Costco (Memorial, I-40 west, Midwest City, Moore)
5. Restoration Hardware (Penn Square)

Restoration Hardware was #6 on my list and I think something like that would do well in the space next to Anthropologie.

Some good ones above, so I'll try to add to the list, even though Trader Joes and Nordstrom would be very high on my list for sure.

1. Uptown Grocery (remodel of the 23rd and Penn Buy For Less) The Edmond location shows an Oklahoma grocer can do it right.
2. Brooks Brothers (lobby of Mystery Tower)
3. La Madeleine (Automobile Alley or Uptown)
4. Urban Outfitters (Automobile Alley)
5. West Elm (Penn Square)

just give me a grocery store worth a damn. was back home for the 4th and walking through HEB made me sad

Kroger Grocery Store
QT

that's my entire list... lol

Really, most things can now be easily purchased on-line so brick & mortar locations in close proximity are decreasing in importance.


However, the grocery thing is completely different and it's disturbing how bad things are in OKC.

Whole Foods, Sprouts and Uptown are all nice improvements but I've never seen a city the size of OKC where the regular grocery chains are at such an incredibly low standard.

I'm really hoping someone will take the OnCue strategy and just start expanding to do direct battle with the well-established local under-achievers. Given the current state of the competition, you would think people would beat a path to the door of a nicer store that still offered good prices.

And again like OnCue / 7-11, I would hope a new competitor would run Homeland into the ground. They deserve to fail after putting the bare minimum (and sometimes less) into their stores.

Really, most things can now be easily purchased on-line so brick & mortar locations in close proximity are decreasing in importance.


However, the grocery thing is completely different and it's disturbing how bad things are in OKC.

Whole Foods, Sprouts and Uptown are all nice improvements but I've never seen a city the size of OKC where the regular grocery chains are at such an incredibly low standard.

I'm really hoping someone will take the OnCue strategy and just start expanding to do direct battle with the well-established local under-achievers. Given the current state of the competition, you would think people would beat a path to the door of a nicer store that still offered good prices.

And again like OnCue / 7-11, I would hope a new competitor would run Homeland into the ground. They deserve to fail after putting the bare minimum (and sometimes less) into their stores.

I have always enjoyed my experiences at the Crest locations. The one at 23rd and Meridian I have a hard time getting in and out of so we usually go to the one on SW 104th and May. I know Reasor's is looking to build a location in Edmond, but that whole development is being met with some concern due to the housing east of it. I actually know Josh Reasor, who I believe is in charge of Marketing there, and have talked to him multiple times about breaking in the Oklahoma City market. He said they were looking at it but had to find the right place and didn't want to be too close to Crest.

The typical Crest is still well below the standard of the grocery stores found in most other cities.

1. Trader Joes (Uptown / 23rd)
2. Kroger or other nicer grocery chain (everywhere)
3. Bloomingdales or Nordstrom (Penn Square)
4. Costco (Memorial, I-40 west, Midwest City, Moore)
5. Restoration Hardware (Penn Square)

In my wishlist, I'd replace Restoration Hardware with Fry's Electronics, and I'd replace Kroger with Meijer instead. To me, Kroger is very similar to Crest except that they have better house brands and they offer double & triple couponing. I know my wife's list would include the Container Store and Sam Moon's (it's a purse and accessories chain out of DFW).

Krogers would (yes with an "s" LOL) would be nice to have here. It is interesting that most of the national chains have avoided Oklahoma.

Side though. When picking locations its interesting how many want everything north of I-40. Would be much more advantageous to have locations closer to downtown or the central sections. Put things up in Edmond or on Memorial, people from the south side won't bother. For me, I haven't been on Memorial or anywhere north of Downtown (locally that is) in years.

Krogers would (yes with an "s" LOL) would be nice to have here. It is interesting that most of the national chains have avoided Oklahoma.


Well there was that whole Food Lion fiasco.... They did build some nice buildings for those big churches to move into. ;)

Eatzi's: eatZi's Market & Bakery ? Chef-Crafted European Food for the Taking (http://www.eatzis.com/)

Well there was that whole Food Lion fiasco.... They did build some nice buildings for those big churches to move into. ;)

LOL indeed! Of course the one on Highway 9 in Norman is an AT&T center. :)

What's wrong with this photo??

http://www.thekrogerco.com/images/locations-maps/1q2013-map.jpg?sfvrsn=0

A Fry's would be nice.

[QUOTE=venture79;662048]Krogers would (yes with an "s" LOL) would be nice to have here. It is interesting that most of the national chains have avoided Oklahoma.

I have often wondered why national or even regional chains avoid Oklahoma. Not only grocery stores, but also gas stations. Is our business climate as bad as it seems?

Costco
Container Store
Central Market
Trader Joe's
HEB Grocers

no particular order or location

The typical Crest is still well below the standard of the grocery stores found in most other cities.

Is the one on SW 104th and May? I always thought they had an expansive meat and deli selection as well as their produce being very good. I have been to Publix in Florida, Reasor's in the Tulsa area as well as a few Kroger's in Texas and I think this one tops them all. Maybe I am not going to as nice of stores in the other areas?

Is the one on SW 104th and May? I always thought they had an expansive meat and deli selection as well as their produce being very good. I have been to Publix in Florida, Reasor's in the Tulsa area as well as a few Kroger's in Texas and I think this one tops them all. Maybe I am not going to as nice of stores in the other areas?

I haven't been to the one on 104th & May but I've seen several of the others and they don't compare favorably to the standards found in most other cities.

I haven't been to the one on 104th & May but I've seen several of the others and they don't compare favorably to the standards found in most other cities.

I don't think any of them come close to the one on 104th and May. Most of the other ones were just retro-fitting older grocery stores and this one was built on open land from the ground up. Again, I may be wrong in my assessment of grocery stores, but I have always really like that one so that is where my focus is.

Reading through these suggestions makes me realize there is no way in hell I could convince my wife to move back to OKC, at least not on a full-time basis. You guys are listing stores that are in every 2-bit shopping center across America. How is it metro OKC (and in some cases - the whole state) doesn't have any of these stores?

Wal-Mart flooded the market and more or less deterred Costco and grocery chains.

The true retailers listed usually go into markets based on population and most are now considering OKC, as are Trader Joe's and Costco.

Wal-Marts are everywhere though. Metro Jacksonville has like 12 supercenters but we also have all the upscale stores.

Wal-Marts are everywhere though. Metro Jacksonville has like 12 supercenters but we also have all the upscale stores.

There was a study done showing Wal-Mart Super Centers, Wal-Marts, and WM Neighborhood Markets dominated the OKC grocery scene in an unprecedented way, fully 40% (!!) in 2010, with Sam's Clubs accounting for almost another 6%. That is nearly HALF the total grocery market.

I can't imagine an MSA of over 1 million with anything close to this.

http://supermarketnews.com/site-files/supermarketnews.com/files/archive/supermarketnews.com/images/0426_SNdiscounters-dominate280.jpg

Holy crap - 30 Wal-marts?

Maybe I need to watch the documentary "Walmart: The high cost of low prices". I have been avoiding it but maybe it is worth a look.

Jazb24Q2s94

Watch the PBS special on Wal-Mart on-line here (it's excellent and even-handed):

Is Wal-Mart Good For America? | FRONTLINE | PBS (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/)

Is the one on SW 104th and May? I always thought they had an expansive meat and deli selection as well as their produce being very good. I have been to Publix in Florida, Reasor's in the Tulsa area as well as a few Kroger's in Texas and I think this one tops them all. Maybe I am not going to as nice of stores in the other areas?

I agree. I've never been in an HEB but I've been in Kroger and Publix and I think this Crest is equal to if not better than what I have seen at any Kroger o Publix I have been in.

The new Crest at University North Park is the same concept as the store at 104th and May.

I agree. I've never been in an HEB but I've been in Kroger and Publix and I think this Crest is equal to if not better than what I have seen at any Kroger o Publix I have been in.

The new Crest at University North Park is the same concept as the store at 104th and May.

Glad to know I am not just looking through my Crest-colored glasses...

Still, those Crest locations are exceptions to their much more common locations and then only comparable to what's typical in most markets.

Just illustrates the extremely low standard set in OKC.

Still, those Crest locations are exceptions to their much more common locations and then only comparable to what's typical in most markets.

Just illustrates the extremely low standard set in OKC.

I see your point. We used to shop at the one at 23rd and Meridian and then found the one at SW 104th and May. So, instead of driving one mile to shop at the one on Meridian, we would drive the 11 miles to the other nicer, bigger store.

Am I the only one that thinks that many of those crying for better grocery options will be some of the first to whine about the high prices?

Maybe Im in a good location because I can get ready to eat/prepared foods from Whole Foods and then be able to have a great selection of produce at good prices at Buy for Less at 23rd and Penn. I know there are other spots in the metro where people want that but grocery options are fine by me at the moment.

Am I the only one that thinks that many of those crying for better grocery options will be some of the first to whine about the high prices?

Prices at Publix, Kroger and Ralph's aren't any higher than Crest or Homeland.

I doubt the prices are higher at the nice Crests than the bare bones locations.


We aren't talking about carpeted aisles, just raising the standards to those already found just about everywhere else.

With very few exceptions, I get totally depressed when I go into OKC grocery stores. And considering that is a place most people go into at least once a week, it's arguably the most important component of local retail.

BTW, I've never seen chains that have such a massive difference between locations.

Look at the Homeland on Classen versus the one on N. May. Or the Crest comparisons just made.


It actually really infuriates me that these local chains (and I include the 7-11 franchisee in this group) don't even maintain decent standards at most their locations.

I can assure you that the Ralph's and Vons out here all look almost exactly the same no matter where you go, and they are in some pretty poor neighborhoods. For very up-scale areas they have completely separate concepts, usually very close to their base stores. But they don't have crappy, cheapo, run-down, dimly-lit, badly-stocked locations ANYWHERE.

The locals are not only setting incredibly low standards, they are doing a massive disservice to people who don't live in one of their few, select areas. And the people they employ.

BTW, I've never seen chains that have such a massive difference between locations.

Look at the Homeland on Classen versus the one on N. May. Or the Crest comparisons just made.


It actually really infuriates me that these local chains (and I include the 7-11 franchisee in this group) don't even maintain decent standards at most their locations.

I can assure you that the Ralph's and Vons out here all look almost exactly the same no matter where you go, and they are in some pretty poor neighborhoods. For very up-scale areas they have completely separate concepts, usually very close to their base stores. But they don't have crappy, cheapo, run-down, dimly-lit, badly-stocked locations ANYWHERE.

The locals are not only setting incredibly low standards, they are doing a massive disservice to people who don't live in one of their few, select areas. Or the people they employ.

I am curious how much of this has to do with the store taking over a now defunct store, throwing their name up there and adding a few things that differentiate them from the others? Crest is a great example. The newer one on May is extremely nice and the one on 23rd is scary but it was an older grocery store, so instead of tearing it down, they spent a little money to make it more Crest-like than what was there before.

I fully agree about grocery stores here. I don't understand how a city this size has it so bad in that area. Actually I do know how and why, its called Wal-Mart. Yes everywhere has them, but OKC is a special market for them. This is where they tested their market saturation strategy. The entire objective was to strategically place Supercenters and Neighborhood Markets in such locations and in such density as to completely take over the grocery market and eliminate the competition. After seeing what happened in OKC, other cities like Austin, another city Wal-Mart was planning on using this strategy in, fought back.

It would be great to have any modern grocery chain here, even Reasor's would be a huge upgrade to most stores here. Uptown Grocery and Crest Market on SW 104th are great but they are also not convenient for much of the metro area. The problem is without alcohol sales to provide a profit cushion, I can't see any major chain making an investment in this market. Wal-Mart is just too dominant.

I am curious how much of this has to do with the store taking over a now defunct store, throwing their name up there and adding a few things that differentiate them from the others? Crest is a great example. The newer one on May is extremely nice and the one on 23rd is scary but it was an older grocery store, so instead of tearing it down, they spent a little money to make it more Crest-like than what was there before.

That shouldn't have anything to do with it.

It's not uncommon for other chains to take over other grocery locations. It's just a simple amount of money and effort to remodel.

Crest gets a small pass only because they are smaller and it seems their newer locations are decent. But what's stopping them from upgrading the other stores?

And Homeland needs to be run out of business completely, ala 7-11. Get out of the way and make room for a reputable chain that actually invests in it's stores.

I fully agree about grocery stores here. I don't understand how a city this size has it so bad in that area. Actually I do know how and why, its called Wal-Mart.

Homeland is just as much to blame.

Long before Wal-Mart staged their bliztkrieg on the local market, they were the main players and very poor. They've done very little since.

They are a spin-off (Oklahoma only) of Safeway, which is still thriving all over the country. And for the most part, Safeways are a million times nicer.


When Homeland split from Safeway, it basically created a very insular situation in OKC, whereby there were virtually zero national chains -- until Wal-Mart came calling.

So, our grocery market was left to the boys from Arkansas and local operators without any sort of larger ties in terms of assets, expertise, desire, pride or perspective. And OKC has suffered acutely because of that.

1. Frys Electronics
2. Costco
3. For HEB or Kroger to buy Homeland

Costco, In-N-Out, REI (finally went to one. Debit card needs to be out on held upon walking in), publix (probably Wont happen--not the right region), Nike (do we have them at the outlet mall? Can't remember).

No particular order

That shouldn't have anything to do with it.

It's not uncommon for other chains to take over other grocery locations. It's just a simple amount of money and effort to remodel.

Crest gets a small pass only because they are smaller and it seems their newer locations are decent. But what's stopping them from upgrading the other stores?

And Homeland needs to be run out of business completely, ala 7-11. Get out of the way and make room for a reputable chain that actually invests in it's stores.

I would rather Homeland get bought out than go under. If they closed down, many OKCitians would have no choice but to shop at Wal-Mart. Crest and Buy 4 Less locations are just too few. I think the chances of that happening without a change in liquor laws is a pie in the sky though.

Homeland needs to be run out of business completely, ala 7-11. Get out of the way and make room for a reputable chain that actually invests in it's stores.

Truer words have not been spoken.

Truer words have not been spoken.

If they went under, would another company enter the market to take up the slack? I am not so sure anybody else would.

I think Kroger could eventually get involved in the OKC market. They stopped expanding to new markets using the Kroger name over a decade ago. It became too difficult to compete with Walmart and the entrenched grocery stores even in the fastest growing markets. They learned that it was much easier to buy an established local chain and implement their business model on the acquiree. That's exactly what they did with Ralph's in order to get into California.

Crest would probably be a juicy target for them here, but I doubt that the Harroz family would sell out to them. Especially since they seem to be on the upswing. I think they'll get around to updating their old stores, but right now they're in expansion mode. They did spend a decent amount of money on refreshing the Edmond store though.

Homeland could be an alternative target, but they have so many run-down stores, that the capital investment needed would run into the tens of millions of dollars. However, if the local population continues to grow, they could pull the trigger regardless.

If they went under, would another company enter the market to take up the slack? I am not so sure anybody else would.

I can't believe that nobody would fill the void. Too many people that refuse to "experience" WalMart.

Back on subject, my list would include more grocery options, REI, and Sur la Table.

Many of Homeland's locations are on the smallish side as well, and the big boys like Kroger like a bigger footprint.

QT. It's hard to find a good gas station around here.

Many of Homeland's locations are on the smallish side as well, and the big boys like Kroger like a bigger footprint.

Many of the Little Rock Krogers aren't much larger than the typical Homeland, but the quality of the stores are 1000 times better. There are a few huge Krogers but if they entered the market they could first buy Homeland out and build additional larger stores. OKC not only has mindnumbingly bad grocery stores, it has fewer than most cities as well.

Still, I don't think any of this will happen until the liquor laws change. An upscale chain will want wine and beer sales to have leverage against Wal-Mart.

Change the laws to allow Total Wine and everything else will take care of itself.

Shop Wine, Liquor & Beer Online | Total Wine & More (http://www.totalwine.com/)

http://cavegrrl.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/total-wine-interior-2.jpg

http://chsbeer.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/custom_1000px/images/20120329-img_8336.jpg

and Yes - wine tasting in the store

http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/16/63/61/3882110/3/628x471.jpg

Charlotte had Total Wine, it was great and I miss it along with Harris Teeter, Trader Joe's, and World Market.

Changing the liquor laws is something that has been discussed for decades and hasn't been done so I am not holding my breath. In my opinion its the lack of everyday amenities like this that really hurt the quality of life in OKC compared to cities its size or even smaller.

QT. It's hard to find a good gas station around here.

I see so much talk about how people wish we had more places like QT and Im not sure I get it. Its a gas station. You go and get gas, maybe a drink. What else do you need? Are that many people eating their meals from convenience stores? Are QT's taquitos that much better than everyone elses? Do they have a larger candy section? Other than it being somewhat cleaner than 7-11s, what is the big deal about a gas station?

I only have one..... Sportsmen's Warehouse.

Moore would be nice but having one back anywhere in OKC would make me really happy.

With Dicks in Moore they may be scare to locate in Moore.

Restoration Hardware was #6 on my list and I think something like that would do well in the space next to Anthropologie.

I heard rumors that Costco was looking at Moore. But that was before the events in May.

People finally hit on it why Kroger isn't here...wine sales. Until the laws get changed they won't touch the place. I could totally see them buying up Homeland, but I see them going for only the newer locations or former Albertson locations. The older, smaller locations would probably be closed or not even purchased.

The typical Crest is still well below the standard of the grocery stores found in most other cities.

The Crest in SW Oklahoma City and the one being built in Norman are really nice. The rest of them are below standard. Not sure about the one in Edmond.

Is the one on SW 104th and May? I always thought they had an expansive meat and deli selection as well as their produce being very good. I have been to Publix in Florida, Reasor's in the Tulsa area as well as a few Kroger's in Texas and I think this one tops them all. Maybe I am not going to as nice of stores in the other areas?

Crest on SW 104th and May and new one being built in Norman are way above standard.

My wife has had several conversations with people in the know and they say that getting the liquor laws changed in 2014 is all but a done deal. I think some details with the Naifeh's and other liquor distributors need to be ironed out, but it should happen pretty quickly (for Oklahoma). Can anyone remember what the proposed law was? You could sell cold beer and wine in grocery stores up to a certain alcohol content or something?

I don't think any of them come close to the one on 104th and May. Most of the other ones were just retro-fitting older grocery stores and this one was built on open land from the ground up. Again, I may be wrong in my assessment of grocery stores, but I have always really like that one so that is where my focus is.

No you are correct I live about 10 minutes from the Crest on 104th and May. Since they open I don't go to Homeland,WM Neighborhood Markets or Walmart Super Centers for grocery shopping any more.

The Crest in SW Oklahoma City and the one being built in Norman are really nice. The rest of them are below standard. Not sure about the one in Edmond.

The Edmond one is decent. It's not SW 104th but I would still say its above standard.

NW OKC needs a few of these Crests in a pretty bad way. If that were to happen, the grocery situation would be a lot better in this city and I think most people would stop complaining about it. They should start with the Gaillardia area. A lot of people live there but its a good drive from a grocery store period, let alone a decent one. From there, they should upgrade the existing stores and add another one on NW Expressway and one down in the Penn Square Mall area.