After some effort I was finally able to hash out all my thoughts in the mayor's race.

Doctor Taco's Rocks and Tacos: Why I am Voting for Mick Cornett (http://rocksandtacos.blogspot.com/2014/02/why-i-am-voting-for-mick-cornett.html)

That may be the most unbiased thing I have read about this race. I do not agree with a couple of your statements (like the a**hole part) but overall an excellent summary of this most interesting mayoral election.

Finally, I am glad more people like you are moving here. I am a transplant also, and while there are always a few things about any place that will drive you up the wall, overall this is a great town that is coming into its own. The transformation that has occurred since I have lived here (roughly coinciding with Mayor Cornett's tenure as mayor) has been extraordinary and I believe even better things are ahead.

But thanks again for posting your thoughts. I think many people will appreciate what you have to say.

The Oklahoman's articles on the two major candidates.

Mick Cornett hopes to be first mayor to win fourth term as Oklahoma City mayor | News OK (http://newsok.com/mick-cornett-hopes-to-be-first-mayor-to-win-fourth-term-as-oklahoma-city-mayor/article/3936331)

Ed Shadid campaigning for Oklahoma City mayor | News OK (http://newsok.com/ed-shadid-campaigning-for-oklahoma-city-mayor/article/3936333)

I'm guessing they will correct it but both articles only show pictures of Ed. LOL

I saw a TV ad by Ed tonight for the first time and it was basically what I expected.

After some effort I was finally able to hash out all my thoughts in the mayor's race.

Doctor Taco's Rocks and Tacos: Why I am Voting for Mick Cornett (http://rocksandtacos.blogspot.com/2014/02/why-i-am-voting-for-mick-cornett.html)

Great blog post.

I hope Doug and a few other Ed supporters read the latest Red Dirt Report blog post. It might be the funniest thing you'll read all year. Apparently, the entire Shadid campaign, RDR, and all of their readers have never heard about a Delaware corporation. Three women in Delaware... Wall Street... hilarious.

You made me look. The incorporation papers in the photo at the top of the page for the org in question show it being incorporated in Oklahoma, not Delaware.

You do understand that a Delaware corporation means a company that was incorporated under the laws and filed with the state of Delaware, not Oklahoma, right?

Regardless, the question remains. Who is behind it and who is pumping money in Mick ads?

Wow. Tinfoil hat time.

Regardless, the question remains. Who is behind it and who is pumping money in Mick ads?

My best guess is people who would like to see Mick win

My best guess is people who would like to see Mick win

No doubt. With lots of money to blow in that direction and the desire and means to hide their identity while doing so.

Wow. Tinfoil hat time.

Oh, it's been tinfoil hat time at the RDR for a long time.

No doubt. With lots of money to blow in that direction and the desire and means to hide their identity while doing so.

Cue the spooky music. Mick is so controversial lol

Well, if Devon/Larry are involved, pump seems like a good word.

I know! Who would want to support a candidate who has the business community behind him, right? It's much better to support the one without the business community behind him (because we definitely don't want to continue positive economic growth in OKC - that would suck). Plus, I want a mayor with magic powers, who will somehow do more with his one vote as mayor than he did with his one vote as councilman (although if true, that might beg the question of why he didn't do that stuff already - intentional negligence?)

But I'm really still undecided who I'm going to vote for. *cough*

I know! Who would want to support a candidate who has the business community behind him, right? It's much better to support the one without the business community behind him (because we definitely don't want to continue positive economic growth in OKC - that would suck). Plus, I want a mayor with magic powers, who will somehow do more with his one vote as mayor than he did with his one vote as councilman (although if true, that might beg the question of why he didn't do that stuff already - intentional negligence?)

But I'm really still undecided who I'm going to vote for. *cough*

I'm a business owner going on 25 years. Also past president of a business industry group. Thank you for not co-opting "the business community" that you most likely are not a member of and either way, don't speak for.

Riiiiiiiigggght.....


:lol2:


But you're still undecided, right?

I'll make a final decision the day I make a mark on the ballot. That's relevant how?

So I can't really be co-opting you, since you're supposedly NOT decided on supporting ED.

And I own and have owned multiple business in OKC, and run several major events. So I am member of the business community. But feel free to just keep making assumptions.

wow, lots of unavaiable for comment from the the people supporting the most transparent and accessible candiddate. proves what we already knew- Cornett is a tool of the chamber and secretive plutocrats and doing their bidding is the only times he has ever been energized about an issue.

Just as accurate is for me to say the business community can't stand Mary Fallin because I can't.

And people wonder why I am so angry.

Relax. This is a numbers game, and the numbers are @ 90 / 10. 90% are very pleased with where we were, where we are, and where we are headed.

The real momentum is in the $Billions now, and the 90% is not going to let the 10% have a voice or a position in shaping tomorrows future. .... Mr. Cornett is doing all we could hope for. He is the mayor for all the OKC metro and we can't afford any changes now.

I guess the plutocratic part of the business community is all energized about walkability and transit then. Because it was Mick who brought Jeff Speck here, it's Mick who's working with metro mayors on regional transit. Did you read Dr. Taco's blog? There are a lot of small business owners, millenials and progressives supporting Mick as well. It so agrees with what I think as well, with the exception of the debate issue that I'll repost it. Oh, and I don't think Mick is arrogant either, just not a huge glad-hander.

Doctor Taco's Rocks and Tacos: Why I am Voting for Mick Cornett (http://rocksandtacos.blogspot.com/2014/02/why-i-am-voting-for-mick-cornett.html?m=1)

I guess the plutocratic part of the business community is all energized about walkability and transit then. Because it was Mick who brought Jeff Speck here, it's Mick who's working with metro mayors on regional transit. Did you read Dr. Taco's blog? There are a lot of small business owners, millenials and progressives supporting Mick as well. It so agrees with what I think as well, with the exception of the debate issue that I'll repost it. Oh, and I don't think Mick is arrogant either, just not a huge glad-hander.

Doctor Taco's Rocks and Tacos: Why I am Voting for Mick Cornett (http://rocksandtacos.blogspot.com/2014/02/why-i-am-voting-for-mick-cornett.html?m=1)

Mick famously said he wasn't doing anything to make it easier to live in Norman or Edmond, so the impetous would have to come from them, which is what happened with progressive mayors like Cindy Rosenthall leading the charge. Sidewalks are crumbs to the rabble compared to the money pit the cc project will become, and the only transit proposed seems more like an amusement ride than actual public transport.
The clunky wasteful implementation of 180 Dr Taco describes seems more like an edorsement for change in city leadership, and MAPIII certainly not ready for prime time. Pretty sure it's Mick's predecessors and the voters of OKC that revitalized downtown, and Bennett's time with the Spurs and relationship with Stern along with a human tragedy and Howard Schultz's greed that made the Thunder possible. Don't forget Brad Lund's promotion of sports in OKC that helped smooth the way for the Hornets after Katrina. Let's not get carried away. Mick is what he is and most really know what he is and lots seem good with it, but we've never had a candidate canvassing the city whole hog like Shadid, doing spots speaking Spanish, so it'll be interesting to discover the true nature of OKC, all gazillion miles of it. btw, wouldn't the election of an outspoken progressive help change the perceptuion that Dr Taco described?

Edgar, I thank you. Over time I have often wondered just how much Kool-aid one person could drink. Perhaps the answer is truly to be measured in gazillions.

Doctor Taco said
There is no secret that Mick Cornett didn’t want to run for another term as mayor but that the prospect of Shadid winning and the lack of another mainstream candidate scared him and the local power brokers enough that he threw his hat in for 2014.

I wonder how much the job will just be drudgery and going through motions after he's slain the dragon and been re-elected.

I'm sure Mick really wants to see MAPS 3 through as much as possible, recognizing it won't even be complete by 2018. Perhaps he's hoping to spearhead the RTD with its need for a dedicated tax or is thinking ahead to possible MAPS 4 projects. He is truly excited about what's happening in OKC right now and I know is looking forward to what's coming. So I don't think it will be drudgery.

The choice comes down to that for me.

Mick, no vision, especially one I agree with, still working a 30 year old play book that's lost any relevance to the vast majority of the citizens and has been co-opted by a select few. Probably would just be happy to not be mayor any more as be re-elected. That doesn't interest me nor do I think it's good for OKC.

Ed, saying all the right things. Has warts a plenty. Talk is cheap.

Obviously, mileage varies.

Edgar, I thank you. Over time I have often wondered just how much Kool-aid one person could drink. Perhaps the answer is truly to be measured in gazillions.

If you distill the Tunder Kool-aid to it's essence, HS greed is the sole reason KD is practicing his art in OKC. Lots of towns have gyms, and Cornett no doubt isn't the only mayor to be a gadfly to Stern. Bennett dangled a pile of money under Shultz's nose and he went to it like a crow to a shiny object. either he is very naive or cared more about the cash than his hometown, and since he is a no holds barred capitalist probably was the cash. The mythology about mayor Mick and the Thunder rather disengenuous.

Doctor Taco said

I wonder how much the job will just be drudgery and going through motions after he's slain the dragon and been re-elected.

He'll be a miserable human being. Shadid has been trying to tell people he checked out of the job long ago, right after pushing through the timeline vote before Shadid could make it back to town and enter his findings into public record.

He'll be a miserable human being. Shadid has been trying to tell people he checked out of the job long ago, right after pushing through the timeline vote before Shadid could make it back to town and enter his findings into public record.

And we all know just how much we can trust Shadid. He's rather facile with lying.

Edgar, respectfully, your candidate has been telling people a lot of things, and many of them have not been true. Tis why he trusted line gets can rather easily be flipped on him as
bustED, LiED, mistrustED.

And that's before one gets into his own name calling and gaming.

And despite all that, he'll do way better than many think he will, in part because some drink that kool-aid very heavily, and in part because some love underdogs but mostly because there is still a level of apathy that seems to still not be addressed by the incumbent.

If OKC makes a change, they do. Easy peasy for me as a Norman person. I can stay on my side of the greater metro area just fine if I don't decide to go into OKC.

If you distill the Tunder Kool-aid to it's essence, HS greed is the sole reason KD is practicing his art in OKC. Lots of towns have gyms, and Cornett no doubt isn't the only mayor to be a gadfly to Stern. Bennett dangled a pile of money under Shultz's nose and he went to it like a crow to a shiny object. either he is very naive or cared more about the cash than his hometown, and since he is a no holds barred capitalist probably was the cash. The mythology about mayor Mick and the Thunder rather disengenuous.

I'm going to call bull**** here Edgar. I am always willing to admit what I don't know. But anyone who knows me can tell you I can recite the MAPS arena to Hornets to Thunder story like I lived it, which I did. You are spouting off like you actually know something about this, and you are clearly ignorant. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Because pumping sounds so much more sinister than donating...

Depends on the context.

If you distill the Tunder Kool-aid to it's essence, HS greed is the sole reason KD is practicing his art in OKC. Lots of towns have gyms, and Cornett no doubt isn't the only mayor to be a gadfly to Stern. Bennett dangled a pile of money under Shultz's nose and he went to it like a crow to a shiny object. either he is very naive or cared more about the cash than his hometown, and since he is a no holds barred capitalist probably was the cash. The mythology about mayor Mick and the Thunder rather disengenuous.

Shultz could have sold the Supersonics to Oracle CEO Larry Ellison (San Jose) whose initially offered $425 million. The NBA was not going to approve an NBA San Jose when there were the Golden State Warriors & Sacramento Kings in the Silicon Valley area.

Oracle dude's got no game: Larry Ellison loses bid for Seattle SuperSonics (http://gawker.com/188753/oracle-dudes-got-no-game-larry-ellison-loses-bid-for-seattle-supersonics)

HS greed?

KD could go to any number of markets (Brooklyn, Dallas, Chicago, Houston, Los Angeles, New York) and make $3 million or more than what's he getting here practicing his art in a relatively small market like Oklahoma City. Not to mention the endorsements he could make with large corporations in those markets. Durant has invested in OKC with his own restaurant--built from the ground up.

The advertising and attention the Thunder has brought to OKC is one of those intangibles which can't be measured in dollars.

Mick Cornett's visits to NBA Commissioner David Stern paved the way for the temporary relocation of the New Orleans Hornets to OKC which gave us a trial run to test our market for NBA worthiness.

It's not like the NBA franchise here is taking advantage of OKC.

Locals (The Professional Basketball Club, LLC ) have an initial investment of $350 million dollars tied up into this NBA franchise--not to mention the $60 million that was lost when the team was in Seattle and the relocation fees ($45 million to settle KeyArena lease to leave Seattle, $30 million NBA relocation fee).

$350 million initial purchase of the Seattle Supersonics
$_60 million in losses while operating in Seattle
$_45 million to break lease and pay off KeyArena debts (Out of court settlement)
$_30 million to relocate ($1 million to NBA and $1 million to 29 NBA franchises)
$485 million was invested in the NBA Sonics

We should be thankful that we have the Thunder in Oklahoma City because there were groups in Hampton Roads (Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Hampton, VA), Kansas City (offering free rent @ Sprint Center), Louisville and Dallas attempting to lure The Professional Basketball Club, LLC to their cities. Dallas wanted a second NBA team for the Metroplex.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

In a little over a week, Shadid is going to get slaughtered in this election and certain board trolls will retreat to their dreaded misery of llving in one of America's most up and coming cities.

I think the incumbent will return to a fourth term. I don't think it is going to be a highly lopsided election which some of his supporters seem to expect. Won't bother me any if I am wrong, but I am not expecting to see a landslide vote.

Back in the mid-1950s, on my first job as a reporter (in a medium-sized city of our state which shall remain nameless) I came across what I considered to be clear evidence of serious corruption on the part of an elected district judge. However my editor, who had been in charge of the paper since before I was born, refused to print it. Being young, idealistic, and inexperienced, I bitched about it to an older colleague -- who took me across the street to a coffee shop and explained the facts of life to me. "Jimmy," he said, "you have to remember that the judge was elected, and most people around here like what he does. We know that he doesn't always follow the letter of the law, but he knows that we know. If we tell all that we know about him and get him out of office, the voters are going to replace him with somebody else just like him, and we won't know enough about him to have any effect. Just remember this -- in an election, the voters get exactly what they deserve."

Bill's words resonated with me, as did his observation that we were really in the business of providing a wrapper for tomorrow's garbage. It was the beginning of my disillusionment...

Regardless of what happens on March 4, OKC is going to get exactly what it deserves. I only hope that it will be four more years under Mick, and plan to cast my vote accordingly.

Back in the mid-1950s, on my first job as a reporter (in a medium-sized city of our state which shall remain nameless) I came across what I considered to be clear evidence of serious corruption on the part of an elected district judge. However my editor, who had been in charge of the paper since before I was born, refused to print it. Being young, idealistic, and inexperienced, I bitched about it to an older colleague -- who took me across the street to a coffee shop and explained the facts of life to me. "Jimmy," he said, "you have to remember that the judge was elected, and most people around here like what he does. We know that he doesn't always follow the letter of the law, but he knows that we know. If we tell all that we know about him and get him out of office, the voters are going to replace him with somebody else just like him, and we won't know enough about him to have any effect. Just remember this -- in an election, the voters get exactly what they deserve."

Bill's words resonated with me, as did his observation that we were really in the business of providing a wrapper for tomorrow's garbage. It was the beginning of my disillusionment...

Regardless of what happens on March 4, OKC is going to get exactly what it deserves. I only hope that it will be four more years under Mick, and plan to cast my vote accordingly.

Thanks for sharing that with us Jim.

There are many experiences that can be shared among posters similar to what Jim encountered. Sometimes you have to make a choice in which you chose a candidate based on his record. This is not the time to change horses in the middle of the stream.

Mayor Mick Cornett has been a true ambassador representing the OKC.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

The choice comes down to that for me.

Mick, no vision, especially one I agree with, still working a 30 year old play book that's lost any relevance to the vast majority of the citizens and has been co-opted by a select few. Probably would just be happy to not be mayor any more as be re-elected. That doesn't interest me nor do I think it's good for OKC.

Ed, saying all the right things. Has warts a plenty. Talk is cheap.

Obviously, mileage varies.

mkjeeves, you said it so well for the rest of the 90%. You are correct, you & Ed have a completely different opinion of where we should be....and the numbers for that are 10%. It's about votes boys, you either get them or you don't. ...and right now that hill for you is incredibly steep. 90/10. ouch!

That would be if we really had any idea what Ed's vision is. He's the family medicine doctor of politics: jack of all trades, master of none. He's so scattered that its hard to get a handle on what he really thinks is important. He's selling his vision for votes. He can't put together a passable resolution, and he's alienated most of his peers in Council.

I had lunch with two fairly apolitical millenials today and all they could talk about was downtown, the river, the streetcar, the Plaza District, 23rd St., everything that's changing so rapidly here. One of them said, "I cannot ever imagine wanting to live in the suburbs" and the other agreed. That's our next generation, and many of them moved or stayed here precisely because of that vision. Things are changing and Mick speaks to them far better than Ed. It's not a 30 year old play book at all.

What do American Airlines, Apple, Bank of America, Berkshire Hathaway, Cargill, Coca-Cola, Ford, General Electric, Google, JPMorgan Chase, and Wal-Mart have in common? They're all Delaware corporations, established there because Delaware has the least complicated rules for corporations, and you don't even have to have a presence in the state so long as you have someone in the state to serve as your agent before the Secretary of State. Almost half of all corporations in the US are incorporated in Delaware.

So I chuckle when I see someone's panties in a wad about Delaware corporations; it's like complaining about carbon dioxide in the air. (The more you say, the more you contribute.)

The company in question is an Oklahoma corporation. But it doesn't matter if they were a Delaware corp or a Timbuktu corp, that's a straw man to the question of whose money is buying Mick ads.

Ed will lose any "my ethics are better than your ethics" contest here. I have no idea who is paying for Mick's ads. And, were there an intelligent, honest, ethical moderate to liberal candidate running, I would likely be supporting them. That is, given they would show they could build a coalition on the 'shoe and actually accomplish something. But there's a major fail on the honest, ethical on Ed's part, coupled with some major personality issues that make it impossible for me to support him, even though my politics may be closer to his than Mick's.

Joe "Sarge" Nelson is currently on 1000 KTOK and he sounds like a pretty no guff call it as I see it kinda guy. He had some things to say about bribes, money vanishing and other over the top accusations that probably wont sit to well with some well known politicians former and current.

This is why deliberately creating a divide between downtown and the suburbs for political reasons is wrong. This is the next important generation and if we don't join we'll be left behind -which has happened too often here.

The March of the Millennial Generation to the Cities is Real -- Rooflines (http://www.rooflines.org/3563/the_march_of_the_millennial_generation_to_the_citi es_is_real/)

If you distill the Tunder Kool-aid to it's essence, HS greed is the sole reason KD is practicing his art in OKC. Lots of towns have gyms, and Cornett no doubt isn't the only mayor to be a gadfly to Stern. Bennett dangled a pile of money under Shultz's nose and he went to it like a crow to a shiny object. either he is very naive or cared more about the cash than his hometown, and since he is a no holds barred capitalist probably was the cash. The mythology about mayor Mick and the Thunder rather disengenuous.

I've not read this for a few days, but Edgar, you continue to amaze..... Howard Shultz is from New York, not Seattle....other than buying Starbucks, he has no ties to Seattle.

As I've said, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Exaggeration, half-truths and lies are Ed's stock in trade as well. Ed was just "corrected" on a tweet he made yesterday about planning in OKC. Sadly, most of the people who listen to him don't have enough information to know the truth from falsehood.

The company in question is an Oklahoma corporation. But it doesn't matter if they were a Delaware corp or a Timbuktu corp, that's a straw man to the question of whose money is buying Mick ads.

And whomever is buying Mick's ads doesn't bother me nearly as much as the exact same question does about Shadid's ads. Right now, Shadid should be political poison. Yet someone is footing the bill for his campaign. I've personally come to the conclusion that the money and machine behind Shadid is infinitely more worrisome to broader Oklahoma and Oklahoma City politics than Shadid himself. While I point out and stress that it is purely my opinion, I believe the organization behind Shadid doesn't really care if Shadid wins; they find the ability to mine his campaign for insights into the inner workings of OKC (and, to a lesser extent, Oklahoma politics) to be worth every penny they spend - Shadid, with his apparently inestimable ego, is merely a willing vehicle.

I am gratified to hear of folks in my own minor sphere of influence who originally were open to supporting Shadid have, upon further review, changed their mind; but I fear we won't know the true extent of "Shadid's" campaign influence for quite some time to come.

The sad part to me is the 3rd party mailer I got wasn't even negative towards Shadid. A 3rd party is putting money into the campaign and is still less negative than Shadid.

And whomever is buying Mick's ads doesn't bother me nearly as much as the exact same question does about Shadid's ads. Right now, Shadid should be political poison. Yet someone is footing the bill for his campaign. I've personally come to the conclusion that the money and machine behind Shadid is infinitely more worrisome to broader Oklahoma and Oklahoma City politics than Shadid himself. While I point out and stress that it is purely my opinion, I believe the organization behind Shadid doesn't really care if Shadid wins; they find the ability to mine his campaign for insights into the inner workings of OKC (and, to a lesser extent, Oklahoma politics) to be worth every penny they spend - Shadid, with his apparently inestimable ego, is merely a willing vehicle.

I am gratified to hear of folks in my own minor sphere of influence who originally were open to supporting Shadid have, upon further review, changed their mind; but I fear we won't know the true extent of "Shadid's" campaign influence for quite some time to come.



Shadid is footing his own bill. He has publicly said he plans on spending $1-1.5 Million of his own money on this race. That kind of money goes a long way in a market like OKC. I don't think anyone needs to invoke a conspiracy theory to explain Shadid's campaign finance.

Shadid is footing his own bill. He has publicly said he plans on spending $1-1.5 Million of his own money on this race. That kind of money goes a long way in a market like OKC. I don't think anyone needs to invoke a conspiracy theory to explain Shadid's campaign finance.

Not suggesting a "conspiracy theory." Just wanted to know the source of Ed's finances, and I think its been made fairly clear he's leveraged some non-local consultation for his campaign. If he's 100% self-funded, it just goes more to his ego, but even 100% self-funding doesn't magically build an organization. I'm just trying to get my arms around how he constructs (destructs?) a constituency running this kind of campaign. Does not mean I'm looking for tinfoil hats.

I have heard over and over that Mick is only for special interest groups in OKC like the Chamber "cronies" (whatever that means) and the alike? For those that have seen that, what do Shadid supporters consider the FOP?

I have heard over and over that Mick is only for special interest groups in OKC like the Chamber "cronies" (whatever that means) and the alike? For those that have seen that, what do Shadid supporters consider the FOP?

Don't forget "junta".....smh.

What do American Airlines, Apple, Bank of America, Berkshire Hathaway, Cargill, Coca-Cola, Ford, General Electric, Google, JPMorgan Chase, and Wal-Mart have in common? They're all Delaware corporations, established there because Delaware has the least complicated rules for corporations, and you don't even have to have a presence in the state so long as you have someone in the state to serve as your agent before the Secretary of State. Almost half of all corporations in the US are incorporated in Delaware.

I realize I am "Off Topic" here, but what better deal can Delaware make than Oklahoma, when "some" businesses located in Oklahoma City/County don't even have to pay Property Taxes????

I realize I am "Off Topic" here, but what better deal can Delaware make than Oklahoma, when "some" businesses located in Oklahoma City/County don't even have to pay Property Taxes????

Most major companies incorporate in Delaware and then have HQ in other states. Its not about property tax, it's about articles of incorporation.

Shadid is footing his own bill. He has publicly said he plans on spending $1-1.5 Million of his own money on this race. That kind of money goes a long way in a market like OKC. I don't think anyone needs to invoke a conspiracy theory to explain Shadid's campaign finance.

That's a lot of money to spend to get the same vote in City Council he already has. Is this about ego-stroking? I know he's said he can appoint people, but anyone he appoints has to have the approval of the majority of Council.

And if it were really about some spiritual epiphany, that $1.5 million would do a lot more good elsewhere. Water4 could provide drinking water for thousands of people in poor countries with that. Positive Tomorrows could educate homeless kids in OKC for several years. It would cover a lot of counseling and treatment for addicted persons. But it is the doc's money so he can do with it as he pleases.

This is why deliberately creating a divide between downtown and the suburbs for political reasons is wrong.

The smart people in the burbs voted for and spent millions of their hard earned dollars on downtown. If we had it to do over we probably would. You said yourself, downtown is going to be fine. My suggestion in the divisive burb/downtown battle brought on by the elitist urbanista snobs is for them to stop bagging on the burbs and promoting the let-them-rot attitude that's become so prevalent with them. Its' never a good thing to bite the hand that feeds you.

The smart people in the burbs voted for and spent millions of their hard earned dollars on downtown. If we had it to do over we probably would. You said yourself, downtown is going to be fine. My suggestion in the divisive burb/downtown battle brought on by the elitist urbanista snobs is for them to stop bagging on the burbs and promoting the let-them-rot attitude that's become so prevalent with them. Its' never a good thing to bite the hand that feeds you.

Props on this to ya, mkjeeves. I've never understood the outright hatred some express for the suburbs. Hatred. I'm delighted OKC is in a position to offer both, and if someone wants to live downtown, power to 'em, they have every right to do that just as much as I do to live in the 'burbs. Yet some - and I stress some, not all of the urban crowd translate their personal preferences into the ascension of an arrogant moral high ground that insists you're some sort of drooling moron if you don't want to live in someone else's view of an urban paradise.

I have supported MAPS because I have this fleeting memory of what downtown OKC was as a kid, just before the worst of the Pei Plan was implemented (which as a kid I didn't understand, but my mom tried to explain it to me). I remember driving through the old, rundown part of downtown with those scary old, abandoned brick buildings and the faded signage on their sides, and how it would have been interesting to have lived and/or worked in them during their heyday. MAPS became a chance to undo a lot of damage that had been done to downtown, and even though I'm a life-long suburbanite, I am delighted to see downtown OKC come back. I just wish some wouldn't demonize those of us who are not stampeding to live down there...

Different strokes, folks. Different strokes.

Props on this to ya, mkjeeves. I've never understood the outright hatred some express for the suburbs. Hatred. I'm delighted OKC is in a position to offer both, and if someone wants to live downtown, power to 'em, they have every right to do that just as much as I do to live in the 'burbs. Yet some - and I stress some, not all of the urban crowd translate their personal preferences into the ascension of an arrogant moral high ground that insists you're some sort of drooling moron if you don't want to live in someone else's view of an urban paradise.

I have supported MAPS because I have this fleeting memory of what downtown OKC was as a kid, just before the worst of the Pei Plan was implemented (which as a kid I didn't understand, but my mom tried to explain it to me). I remember driving through the old, rundown part of downtown with those scary old, abandoned brick buildings and the faded signage on their sides, and how it would have been interesting to have lived and/or worked in them during their heyday. MAPS became a chance to undo a lot of damage that had been done to downtown, and even though I'm a life-long suburbanite, I am delighted to see downtown OKC come back. I just wish some wouldn't demonize those of us who are not stampeding to live down there...

Different strokes, folks. Different strokes.

I can only speak for myself but I've never "hated" our suburbs. Most of the negative comment on this board I read has to do with developers trying to force suburban design in urban spaces. To point this out does not connote "hate" for suburbs.

The only other disdain I read is that many people here have raised the spectre of reducing sprawl, because it taxes city services like police, fire, and roads.

No hate. I celebrate that we can have both.

I agree. We are all allowed freedom of choice as to where we live and different things appeal to different people. Downtown will probably be fine now, because of everything that has been done the last 20 years to move it from wasteland to destination. That doesn't, though, mean I think we should just stop building and improving it. However, I think what's happening in the Plaza District and on 23rd St. can be a model for other neighborhoods. I'm all in favor of ways our city can make neighborhoods more than just the house in which you live. But, I'm all about political intelligence. You build consensus and build on past successes to have hope for future success. You don't do it by being divisive and engendering mistrust of our existing institutions. That's why I think Ed is so dangerous. He just barrels ahead, doesn't care who he pisses off, doesn't mind creating division between people, doesn't mind sowing suspicion. What does he think he will accomplish, acting like that? He's been phenomenally unsuccessful so far. Is it magical thinking on his part to assume all the discord he has created will disappear, the clouds will open, sunshine will stream down on the council and they will all do his bidding if he's elected mayor? As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

Most major companies incorporate in Delaware and then have HQ in other states. Its not about property tax, it's about articles of incorporation.

I went to a CLE on this a couple years ago (thus, by Shadid's standards, I am now clearly an expert, so bow down). Incorporating in Delaware has a lot of advantages. They have very business-friendly laws and if you're doing nationwide business, other businesses will approach you as a more serious business than they would, say an Oklahoma LLC. Also, Delaware's corporate court system is supposed to be o-mazing. I'm not really sure why a corporation like this one would incorporate in Delaware, but I can't say why not either.

I agree. We are all allowed freedom of choice as to where we live and different things appeal to different people. Downtown will probably be fine now, because of everything that has been done the last 20 years to move it from wasteland to destination. That doesn't, though, mean I think we should just stop building and improving it. However, I think what's happening in the Plaza District and on 23rd St. can be a model for other neighborhoods. I'm all in favor of ways our city can make neighborhoods more than just the house in which you live. But, I'm all about political intelligence. You build consensus and build on past successes to have hope for future success. You don't do it by being divisive and engendering mistrust of our existing institutions. That's why I think Ed is so dangerous. He just barrels ahead, doesn't care who he pisses off, doesn't mind creating division between people, doesn't mind sowing suspicion. What does he think he will accomplish, acting like that? He's been phenomenally unsuccessful so far. Is it magical thinking on his part to assume all the discord he has created will disappear, the clouds will open, sunshine will stream down on the council and they will all do his bidding if he's elected mayor? As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

Shadid didn't create any discord. It's been here. In the past few cycles, we've had this anti-MAPS crowd trot out their homme du jour and the elections have been pretty one-sided. It's this freaky coalition of disaffected folks who think the process and people are corrupt regardless of what evidence there is. You have the FOP and Fire unions who, like every government agency ever in the history of ever think they are underfunded and see a big 'ol pot of money if they can just leverage these other groups. You have the Tea Party/hyperconservative folks out of the High Noon Club/Fairview Baptist Church (I'm surprised they didn't field one of their goofballs this time around) and you have the mislED progressives who will latch on to anyone who says they are running against the Chamber of Commerce. Those are Ed's key constituencies. They existed before Shadid appeared and they will continue to exist.

There will always be special interests (FOP and fire) who want the money.

There will always be the disaffected ne'er do wells.

We're the buckle of the Bible belt, so your RW wackadoo Luddites will always be in plentiful supply.

And we'll always have the progressive folks who due to an unfortunate shortage of progressive standard bearers will always flock to the banner of someone who at least pays them lip service.

--and maybe there's another key demographic of people who just want some superbadass bus stops?