'The Doctor', 'El Shadid', 'Shadid the Adult'................. Just loving it.

First of all, Shadid may well be wrong that no hotels will want to build a convention center hotel. Our CC is very well sited for a successful hotel, relative to some other cities. I don't like the site for a CC, but were I a hotelier I would love it. It's right next to the arena, in the CBD, near Bricktown. OKC is short hotel rooms, unlike some cities. So, lets say we don't know if any hotel chains are interested. Might they require a subsidy? Perhaps. How much would that be? Depends on the market. I don't think we have enough data to say what the city would pay if they have to pay. Council meetings are open and all we've heard is a consultant talk about a hotel. It's rather alarmist and quite possibly inaccurate to say what Ed is saying. Prove to us that its going to be a money pit. If a hotel asks the city to take some of the risk, the city can always say no. Again, where's the data that says we would enter a partnership rather than just giving a one-time subsidy? Where's the proof it would lose money? So by blowing this way out of proportion, exaggerating (or lying), Ed is trying to make political capital out of something that is simply under discussion, not a done deal.

Appreciate the civic enthusiasm but it'd take a severe case of magical thinking to believe OKC's experience will differ from Austin, or Boston or....

Regardless, there is currently no proposal to build a hotel, subsidize a hotel, create a public/private partnership with a hotel. While money is tighter than it was pre -2008, its not as difficult to obtain as it was during the recession. So, you and Ed are just fear mongering, presumably to deflect attention from his short-comings.

Today at the Dr. King parade there were a couple people asking for signatures for the convention center hotel referenda. It appeared the young guy I talked to was hired, or at least put up to it by his parents.

If this comes to a vote, I wonder how much money Ed will spend to campaign against the convention center. I believe to revote costs about $150,000.00. Money will be spent to promote the convention center in the vote. What a waste. Ed's not even a sore loser because he didn't vote, but he doesn't mind spending taxpayer money to reverse a vote of his constituents. And what kind of precedent does this set? Anytime someone doesn't like the outcome of an election, they can force a revote.

'The Doctor', 'El Shadid', 'Shadid the Adult'................. Just loving it.

Ditto!

If Ed is the adult in the room; Lord help us all...

If this comes to a vote, I wonder how much money Ed will spend to campaign against the convention center. I believe to revote costs about $150,000.00. Money will be spent to promote the convention center in the vote. What a waste. Ed's not even a sore loser because he didn't vote, but he doesn't mind spending taxpayer money to reverse a vote of his constituents. And what kind of precedent does this set? Anytime someone doesn't like the outcome of an election, they can force a revote.

$150k peanuts compared with what a shiny new cc would annually cost OKC taxpayers.

$150k peanuts compared with what a shiny new cc would annually cost OKC taxpayers.

You mean the shiny new CC that will be paid for as we build it? Funny thing about debt is that you have to BORROW the money to be in debt.

Edgar, here's the thing: Just because Ed is saying all this doesn't make it true. The fact that you have ZERO nuance in your delivery only shows your a) immaturity b) robotic acceptance of whatever conspiracy is fashionable now or c) you just aren't very bright.

The fact is this: with MAPS, the CC will be paid for as it is built (if not prior). Should it cost more, the city would have to ask for an extension (see Finish MAPS right after MAPS I). The hotel is NOT required. It may be necessary, but that hasn't been decided (regardless of what Ed says). If it is required, OKC has had such a shortage of hotel rooms in the CBD that this hotel (which should be either full service or on the very high end of not) will have no problem pulling in business. With future convention business, Thunder games (especially playoff games), tourism, or business with the new GE complex there will be plenty of people wanting to use a very nice hotel in a central location.

Ed doesn't have to like the CC; plenty of people certainly did not. Whether he likes it or not, it passed a vote of the people. The possibility of a hotel was not hidden (as has been consistently proven by Steve and others) prior to the vote. No one has been deceived; there are only those who are uninformed. Ed is certainly uninformED. End of story.

Question: If Shadid gets his signatures and a revote is held, when will it be held? Will it correspond to the Mayoral election? If so then this all becomes quite clear. He is hoping to drive up turnout with the CC stuff.

http://centralokgo.org/

There was an excellent webinar today featuring a presentation by URS on current planning for mass transit in the OKC metro area. A podcast of the presentation will be available for viewing within the next few days. I was impressed with the level of planning already underway. This would not happen without the willing participation and encouragement of our sitting mayor and those of surrounding cities. Ed knows about this so his statements implying this is something that will happen only if he takes office are again untruths.

Mr. Ed


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRE8EZHEkJE

Dr. Ed Shadid is impressive on the surface; however, is it like talking to a horse?

[QUOTE=BrettM2;735712]Edgar, here's the thing: Just because Ed is saying all this doesn't make it true. The fact that you have ZERO nuance in your delivery only shows your a) immaturity b) robotic acceptance of whatever conspiracy is fashionable now or c) you just aren't very bright.

The fact is this: with MAPS, the CC will be paid for as it is built (if not prior). Should it cost more, the city would have to ask for an extension (see Finish MAPS right after MAPS I). The hotel is NOT required. It may be necessary, but that hasn't been decided (regardless of what Ed says). If it is required, OKC has had such a shortage of hotel rooms in the CBD that this hotel (which should be either full service or on the very high end of not) will have no problem pulling in business. With future convention business, Thunder games (especially playoff games), tourism, or business with the new GE complex there will be plenty of people wanting to use a very nice hotel in a central location.

Ed doesn't have to like the CC; plenty of people certainly did not. Whether he likes it or not, it passed a vote of the people. The possibility of a hotel was not hidden (as has been consistently proven by Steve and others) prior to the vote. No one has been deceived; there are only those who are uninformed. Ed is certainly uninformED. End of story.[/QUOT
I was referring to operating deficits. $150k, that'd cover about a weeks' worth based on the experience of other towns, take your pick.
Have you read Doug's history on the promotion of MAPSIII? dok made sure most everyone who voted on the logroll was an uniformed voter, so I'd be skeptical of any report from them.

Crap, I'm skeptical of anything from Ed, he has no credibility.

Operating deficits are generated by debt service in many of these cities. Operating deficits are highly unlikely in a fully paid-for building that will generate income. It will also generate hotel, restaurant, car rental, taxi, shopping expenditures income for residents of OKC and sales and hotel tax income for the city.

Not everyone gets their information from the DOK Edgar. And not everyone who reads the DOK reads it alone. You're making statements without any factual data to back them up. You're a regular chip off the old block.

Operating deficits are generated by debt service in many of these cities. Operating deficits are highly unlikely in a fully paid-for building that will generate income. It will also generate hotel, restaurant, car rental, taxi, shopping expenditures income for residents of OKC and sales and hotel tax income for the city.

Not everyone gets their information from the DOK Edgar. And not everyone who reads the DOK reads it alone. You're making statements without any factual data to back them up. You're a regular chip off the old block.

I believe betts just dropped the mic.

I thought I would drop a line or two about the convention center... My research on urban revitalization has led me to study convention centers. I have jotted some quick research notes at the following link. This is a first-cut/rough draft response to a buddy's email. Enjoy, and flame away.

For those too lazy to click, both sides have some valid points. The Myriad is relatively small, but OKC would need a (cost-prohibitively) expensive investment to make a dent in the hyper-competitive conventions marketplace. How the city should proceed with the center is a tough judgement call, especially in light of Core to Shore (a good strategy with improvable tactics). Expanding the downtown footprint: good idea. Current Convention Center Plan: perhaps not the most efficient way to do accomplish this task.

Oklahoma City?s Controversial Convention Center | Samuel Bassett (http://www.samuelbassett.com/oklahoma-citys-controversial-convention-center/)

Can we all just assume that Edgar and MKJeeves are the only people who contribute to this message board who support this charlatan, Shadid? I'm beyond sick of their trolling garbage.

I also think of Doug Loudenbach. He's a potential supporter of Ed, although he hasn't said so (but he doesn't seem to care for Cornett). Anyone else?

Aw, it sucks to be you. I'm sure after you make a few more of your bombastic posts it will be all better!

The Economic Impact of the Proposed
Oklahoma City Convention Center Hotel
Prepared


http://www.theallianceokc.org/sites/default/files/files/Economic%20Impact%20of%20CC_121313.pdf

Can we all just assume that Edgar and MKJeeves are the only people who contribute to this message board who support this charlatan, Shadid? I'm beyond sick of their trolling garbage.

I also think of Doug Loudenbach. He's a potential supporter of Ed, although he hasn't said so (but he doesn't seem to care for Cornett). Anyone else?

If Shadid is such a charlatan selling snake oil and talking out his &^%, why won't Mich agree to a debate so he can defend himself? Shadid has accused him of lying in the promotion of the cc. Wouldn't you want to set the record straight?

The Economic Impact of the Proposed
Oklahoma City Convention Center Hotel
Prepared


http://www.theallianceokc.org/sites/default/files/files/Economic%20Impact%20of%20CC_121313.pdf

It doesn't cost money, it saaaaves $!

If Shadid is such a charlatan selling snake oil and talking out his &^%, why won't Mich agree to a debate so he can defend himself? Shadid has accused him of lying in the promotion of the cc. Wouldn't you want to set the record straight?

Why would he waste his time debating a guy that seems to be digging his own grave?

And where is El Shadid getting this $200 million dollar figure from? I have only seen it ever at $50 million for the last several years.

The Economic Impact of the Proposed
Oklahoma City Convention Center Hotel
Prepared


http://www.theallianceokc.org/sites/default/files/files/Economic%20Impact%20of%20CC_121313.pdf

I only made it to page 3 before I had to stop reading that non-sense. The hotel is going to increase local economic output by $669 million? Why are we just building one of these? We should build 20 if you believe that number.

Last night we had a watch party for the Thunder - Spurs game. To that party came a man and his son, whom we "met" through the Thunder website. They came here from Australia for the son's school break. They bought tickets to 3 Thunder games, spent 7 nights at the Bricktown Hampton Inn, ate at KD's twice and other restaurants around the city 19 other times. There were at least 3 other families here on break from Australia and New Zealand this week. David Glover, one of Ed's right hand people, campaigned vociferously against the MAPS Arena. Had he been successful, the Thunder would not be here. Think of the economic and international PR impact of the Thunder.

Why is this relevant? First of all, Ed has the same mindset as David Glover. Had he bothered to vote in the election, he likely would have voted against the arena. But the other part of this story is that since that MAPS Arena vote, things have changed in Oklahoma City. We are not the same city we were. My biggest argument against the convention center back in 2008 (when the mysterious Chamber study was done) was that Oklahoma City had nothing compelling downtown for visitors - there was no reason for people to come here. Things have changed. We have retail downtown, many more restaurants, we'll have transit for visitors to get to those places and for as many as 7 months, we have the Thunder. It's hard to contemplate how much has changed and likely how irrelevant that study is. It's time to be in the present. I don't have the ability to evaluate this new study. As I've said, I always assume the truth is somewhere in between the positive and negative studies. I just think Ed needs to drop his attempt to generate paranoia regarding the mystery Chamber study.

The study linked above was just done last month. It was presented on Dec 17, 2013.

I just think Ed needs to drop his attempt to generate paranoia regarding the mystery Chamber study.

But then what would he have left that means he's better suited for Mayor in a weak council city government? That he's a better consensus builder? Hail Mary is all that's left at this point.

I know. I'm referring to Ed's 2008 mystery chamber study. He hasn't given up referring to it and I agree that it's out of date. How accurate this one is, I can't evaluate, but if he's going to rebut something he can use this one.

Last night we had a watch party for the Thunder - Spurs game. To that party came a man and his son, whom we "met" through the Thunder website. They came here from Australia for the son's school break. They bought tickets to 3 Thunder games, spent 7 nights at the Bricktown Hampton Inn, ate at KD's twice and other restaurants around the city 19 other times. There were at least 3 other families here on break from Australia and New Zealand this week. David Glover, one of Ed's right hand people, campaigned vociferously against the MAPS Arena. Had he been successful, the Thunder would not be here. Think of the economic and international PR impact of the Thunder.

Why is this relevant? First of all, Ed has the same mindset as David Glover. Had he bothered to vote in the election, he likely would have voted against the arena. But the other part of this story is that since that MAPS Arena vote, things have changed in Oklahoma City. We are not the same city we were. My biggest argument against the convention center back in 2008 (when the mysterious Chamber study was done) was that Oklahoma City had nothing compelling downtown for visitors - there was no reason for people to come here. Things have changed. We have retail downtown, many more restaurants, we'll have transit for visitors to get to those places and for as many as 7 months, we have the Thunder. It's hard to contemplate how much has changed and likely how irrelevant that study is. It's time to be in the present. I don't have the ability to evaluate this new study. As I've said, I always assume the truth is somewhere in between the positive and negative studies. I just think Ed needs to drop his attempt to generate paranoia regarding the mystery Chamber study.

Don't think it's paranoia but he doesn't agree with Mick that it has minimal relevance and thinks all the info should be available regarding what will be a risky commitment for OKC. Sure the chamber commissioned the study but since they receive millions in taxpayer funds, who really paid for it?, and voters surely should have had access to the study in order to make an informed decision. It apparently mentions many significant challanges for OKC to compete in the convention business where space is being heavily discounted and even comped. we're all familiar- climate, direct flights, no transport form the airport, little public transport. Why won't Mick agree to a debate if Shadid is talking out his %^^? And please don't lump the half baked MAPSIII logroll in with the other projects in the franchise. It's an insult.

Don't think it's paranoia but he doesn't agree with Mick that it has minimal relevance and thinks all the info should be available regarding what will be a risky commitment for OKC. Sure the chamber commissioned the study but since they receive millions in taxpayer funds, who really paid for it?, and voters surely should have had access to the study in order to make an informed decision. It apparently mentions many significant challanges for OKC to compete in the convention business where space is being heavily discounted and even comped. we're all familiar- climate, direct flights, no transport form the airport, little public transport. Why won't Mick agree to a debate if Shadid is talking out his %^^? And please don't lump the half baked MAPSIII logroll in with the other projects in the franchise. It's an insult.

Don't lump it in? Everyone thought the arena being built was the worst deal ever. I remember driving by it a year after it opened with my best friend and he said, "I can't believe they actually continued the tax to build that monstrosity. All we are going to get from it is a few big concerts a year and then it will sit empty..." There were studies done before it was built saying how bad of a deal for the city it was owning an arena and most cities would not get anything good out of it. Now it is the best example ever of the MAPS program and without it, the city would not see the million dollars per home game and closer to $1.3 million for playoff games.

OKC needed a larger capacity arena to get back in the concert circuit, which has occurred thankfully. The Thuder is a total fluke- it took a human tragedy and Howard's Schultz's greed. Lots of towns built arenas and didn't get a pro team. A new cc however is a different story.

OKC needed a larger capacity arena to get back in the concert circuit, which has occurred thankfully. The Thuder is a total fluke- it took a human tragedy and Howard's Schultz's greed. Lots of towns built arenas and didn't get a pro team. A new cc however is a different story.

Shadid would be have been against the arena deal. I don't see how that is even arguable.

OKC needed a larger capacity arena to get back in the concert circuit, which has occurred thankfully. The Thuder is a total fluke- it took a human tragedy and Howard's Schultz's greed. Lots of towns built arenas and didn't get a pro team. A new cc however is a different story.

The same could be said about the convention center... Your move...

It took tons of work and Mayor Mick Cornett going to NYC to convince David Stern to let the Hornets come here for the time being for it to happen. Yes there was a natural disaster that opened the door, but not everything just fell into place after that happened. There was tons of lobbying and traveling to get them to come here. You really need to read Big League City to understand the entire situation and how it played out.

OKC needed a larger capacity arena to get back in the concert circuit, which has occurred thankfully. The Thuder is a total fluke- it took a human tragedy and Howard's Schultz's greed. Lots of towns built arenas and didn't get a pro team. A new cc however is a different story.

This is correct, it just shows how the persistance of a good Mayor, that is Mayor Cornett, helped lure the NBA after Katrina. You're right, a lot of other cities built arenas, but our Mayor was instrumental in landing the Hornets.

Howard Schultz's greed deserves most the credit. He could have sold to a local for less $ but he was like a crow to a shiny object when Bennett waved cash under his noes.

Howard Schultz's greed deserves most the credit. He could have sold to a local for less $ but he was like a crow to a shiny object when Bennett waved cash under his noes.

And this makes Ed right how?

Howard Schultz's greed deserves most the credit. He could have sold to a local for less $ but he was like a crow to a shiny object when Bennett waved cash under his noes.

Sure, give credit to Mr. Starbucks. Don't give any credit to Mick, Clay Bennett or anybody associated with his ownership group...

Howard Schultz's greed deserves most the credit. He could have sold to a local for less $ but he was like a crow to a shiny object when Bennett waved cash under his noes.
Edgar, your ignorance would be laughable if it weren't so sad. You're talking to people who lived through this and know precisely what happened. Read "Big League City" if you want to educate yourself. The Washington legislature and the city of Seattle's refusal to build a new arena is the primary reason the Sonics moved here, which was preceded by Mayor Cornett's persistant courting of the NBA and acumen in seizing the opportunity to host the Hornets when Katrina made the New Orleans arena unusable. If it weren't for the voters who approved MAPS I, the MAPS arena update and Mayor Cornett, the Thunder would not be here. Most people who are losing $20 million a year on a business cannot be called greedy for wanting to break even. Howard Schultz was foolish, perhaps, to think that he could operate a team in the black, given the ridiculously bad contract the Sonics had with the city of Seattle, but it is ignorant to call him greedy. And there were no Seattle buyers at the time he sold to Bennett et al. The only other potential buyer was in San Jose and insisted on moving the team immediately there upon purchase.

Edgar, your ignorance would be laughable if it weren't so sad. You're talking to people who lived through this and know precisely what happened. Read "Big League City" if you want to educate yourself. The Washington legislature and the city of Seattle's refusal to build a new arena is the primary reason the Sonics moved here, which was preceded by Mayor Cornett's persistant courting of the NBA and acumen in seizing the opportunity to host the Hornets when Katrina made the New Orleans arena unusable. If it weren't for the voters who approved MAPS I, the MAPS arena update and Mayor Cornett, the Thunder would not be here. Most people who are losing $20 million a year on a business cannot be called greedy for wanting to break even. Howard Schultz was foolish, perhaps, to think that he could operate a team in the black, given the ridiculously bad contract the Sonics had with the city of Seattle, but it is ignorant to call him greedy. And there were no Seattle buyers at the time he sold to Bennett et al. The only other potential buyer was in San Jose and insisted on moving the team immediately there upon purchase.

I'm glad you reworded that. I don't remember if Mick was a rep or a TV personality during Maps 1 but he didn't have anything substantial to do with what was and is first and foremost to bringing the team here.

I'm glad you reworded that. I don't remember if Mick was a rep or a TV personality during Maps 1 but he didn't have anything substantial to do with what was and is first and foremost to bringing the team here.

NBA Finals: Commissioner David Stern thinks fondly of Oklahoma City | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/3683953)

“They were building canals, rivers, Bricktowns, you name it, this place was building it,” Stern said.

Because of the voters and tax payers before Mick was ever involved.

We wouldn't have an NBA team if it wasn't for Mayor Cornett. That is not saying he did it on his own or was the only factor but his work to get the Thunder here shouldn't be marginalized in any way.

“They were building canals, rivers, Bricktowns, you name it, this place was building it,” Stern said.

Because of the voters and tax payers before Mick was ever involved.

Stern has also said Mayor Cornett is "the mayor who wouldn't go away."

“They were building canals, rivers, Bricktowns, you name it, this place was building it,” Stern said.

Because of the voters and tax payers before Mick was ever involved.

Yes but again, Mick was instrumental in getting the Hornets here. He had a good working relationship with Stern before Katrina ever occurred that was all of his own doing and initiative. As Capt. Dave said, Stern was well aware of Mick and his aspirations for Oklahoma City long before. When Mayor Cornett found out the New Orleans arena would not be habitable, he moved. Had the Hornets not been here and been a rousing success, the Thunder would not be here. Had Mick not pushed for the MAPS Arena improvement, the Thunder would not be here. He was critical to their presence in Oklahoma City. But the voters and taxpayers paved the way and deserve a lot of credit as well.

We wouldn't have an NBA team if it wasn't for Mayor Cornett. That is not saying he did it on his own or was the only factor but his work to get the Thunder here shouldn't be marginalized in any way.

Maybe it's minor, but I feel like the insistence (presumably by Cornett, but I don't know) on a temporary name change to "New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets" played a role in getting everyone used to the idea that we could have an NBA team in OKC, so that future mentions of NBA and Oklahoma City in the same sentence no longer seemed that preposterous...

Really great point Shawn that I hadn't really thought about much. Although he didn't have a vote in the deal, Cornett was also very insistent they be called the Oklahoma City Thunder and not the Oklahoma Thunder.

How old was Mick in '92 and what was he doing? Nothing to do with this. It wasn't his idea. He had nothing to do with the idea. He had nothing to do with Maps 1 where the voters committed to collect and spend money on an arena. Credit where credit is due. He is due some, but not all that much in the grand scheme of effort, planning, and millions of dollars spent by the people.

City Plans Netting NBA Franchise

February 1992

City Plans Netting NBA Franchise; Arena Due Study | News OK (http://newsok.com/city-plans-netting-nba-franchise-arena-due-study/article/2383994)

Really great point Shawn that I hadn't really thought about much. Although he didn't have a vote in the deal, Cornett was also very insistent they be called the Oklahoma City Thunder and not the Oklahoma Thunder.

I remember when the name came out and all my Tulsa friends wondered why it was the OKC Thunder and not the Oklahoma Thunder. My reaction was, "Who paid for the arena to get built and renovated? People who shop in OKC. What ownership group bought the team? All OKC business men. Where is the arena? OKC..." I would always hear back that the Utah Jazz are in SLC and they aren't called the Salt Lake City Jazz and would reply with and what other team can you name that is named after the state? Minnesota and Washington and that is all in the NBA. And that is out of 30 teams.

I won't say he had nothing to do with MAPS 1. I have no clue. He might have voted. That being said I must have missed the claim someone made that Cornett was responsible for MAPS 1. A lot of things went into the Thunder coming here (MAPS, Cornett, Hurricane, Bennett). Take one of those things out and the Thunder don't end up here. MAPS was crucial to getting the Thunder here. Still, MAPS without Cornett and we don't get the Thunder. Just like Cornett without MAPS no Thunder.

How old was Mick in '92 and what was he doing? Nothing to do with this. It wasn't his idea. He had nothing to do with the idea. He had nothing to do with Maps 1 where the voters committed to collect and spend money on an arena. Credit where credit is due. He is due some, but not all that much in the grand scheme of effort, planning, and millions of dollars spent by the people.

City Plans Netting NBA Franchise

February 1992

City Plans Netting NBA Franchise; Arena Due Study | News OK (http://newsok.com/city-plans-netting-nba-franchise-arena-due-study/article/2383994)

But he had everything to do with getting the arena tax passed to get it updated and the Thunder here. That is what we are trying to say. What was Ed doing in 1992?

I won't say he had nothing to do with MAPS 1. I have no clue. He might have voted. That being said I must have missed the claim someone made that Cornett was responsible for MAPS 1. A lot of things went into the Thunder coming here (MAPS, Cornett, Hurricane, Bennett). Take one of those things out and the Thunder don't end up here. MAPS was crucial to getting the Thunder here. Still, MAPS without Cornett and we don't get the Thunder. Just like Cornett without MAPS no Thunder.

I said substantial upthread, meaning his individual effort acting as a leader to bring the team here. He was a bit player in the big picture of the long term effort and most of what happened to bring them here was handed to him.

Mayor Cornett was anything but a bit player. To say that shows a complete lack of knowledge to how the Thunder got here.

More importantly, what was Ed doing in 2008. And if Ed were Mayor during those years, does anyone think the Thunder would be here today?

Pretty clear the next tactic from Hudson & 7th is to attempt to diminish the successes Mayor Cornett has either led or helped bring about during his service as mayor.

Remind your friends to not be complacent and vote on March 4th.

I said substantial upthread, meaning his individual effort acting as a leader to bring the team here. He was a bit player in the big picture of the long term effort and most of what happened to bring them here was handed to him.

Wrong. Aren't you the person promoting getting all the data, even if it might conflict with your preferred world view? You need to read "Big League City" too. Without Mick Cornett, we would still have a Ford Center and no Thunder.

Wrong. Aren't you the person promoting getting all the data, even if it might conflict with your preferred world view? You need to read "Big League City" too. Without Mick Cornett, we would still have a Ford Center and no Thunder.

Without the Ford Center and the prior studies and ground work, where was Mick going to put a team? Nowhere. He wouldn't get his foot in the door.

Without the Ford Center and the prior studies and ground work, where was Mick going to put a team? Nowhere. He wouldn't get his foot in the door.

Of course and I don't see where anyone has even come close to disputing that. That doesn't diminish his role in the move.

Without the Ford Center and the prior studies and ground work, where was Mick going to put a team? Nowhere. He wouldn't get his foot in the door.

If you're trying to say that Cornett ran with the vision of his predecessors, I would agree. He took the torch and ran with it, and now we have a booming downtown, a healthy city overall, and an NBA team that has launched us into international status. I'd say he's done a good job of expanding on the groundwork that was laid down by the leaders and citizens before him.

Yep. I'm saying "Mick brought us the Thunder" is about as accurate a statement as "Al Gore invented the internet" with one major difference, Al Gore was involved in the early stages paving the way. Mick wasn't.