Urban Pioneer, I have appreciated your posts on transit and the current mayor's role. I think these are the things that need to be talked about. As I understand it there is plenty to contrast the two on transit, MAPS, etc. That is much more to the point, and when we focus on these things people get what they deserve, which is the chance to directly compare the candidates on the issues they really care about.

If someone here thinks that being a bad ex-husband or a former addict on its face disqualifies someone from being a public servant, there's nothing anyone can do about that to change their mind. However, the man has served on the council for a little bit now, and his past has not seemed to prevent him from discharging his duties or serving with a basic level of competence -- regardless of how anyone might feel about him.

This election should be about voting for whoever will more ably lead the renaissance of Oklahoma City. For Urban Pioneer, that's Cornett because of his support for an RTA and the streetcar project, and it's not Shadid because of his troubling record on the streetcar project in particular. It is not about the man's admittedly sordid past.

Bait and swith sir- remember this?Oklahoma City?s mayor says MAPS panel does not need veto power | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-mayor-says-maps-panel-does-not-need-veto-power/article/3424672)

Edgar, I'm sorry, but everytime you post, this is what I hear:

"Hi there, my master made this collar so that I may talk-- SQUIRREL! Hi there."

If you don't understand the reference, you missed a great movie.

And with that, Edgar wears the cone of shame.

It's 5:30 and nothing on the Oklahoman's Web site nor the local TV stations. Did everybody drop the ball on analyzing/disseminating what was in Shadid's file?

It's 5:30 and nothing on the Oklahoman's Web site nor the local TV stations. Did everybody drop the ball on analyzing/disseminating what was in Shadid's file?

Maybe they are trying to be responsible with what they report.

Just because the file was unsealed doesn't mean it will be fully reviewed. It may take time for the court clerk to make copies. Then time to fully review and digest the contents in the pleadings. My guess is the file was quite large. It will come out in time.

Maybe they are trying to be responsible with what they report.

Exactly. And I'm just old-fashioned enough to believe there might be some things in the files that would be tempting to publish, but they choose not to because of the children. Tender ages. Some things are better left on the shelf.

Shadid is finished as a mayoral candidate, I would like to think The Oklahoman wouldn't feel the need to just pile on with information that would traumatize the children. Nothing is worth that. Really, nothing.

Shadid is finished as a mayoral candidate, I would like to think The Oklahoman wouldn't feel the need to just pile on with information that would traumatize the children. Nothing is worth that. Really, nothing.

Apparently being Mayor is.

Apparently being Mayor is.

I've been a huge Shadid critic. I'm just talking about the humanity of the situation. Just because Ed didn't think this through before he got into the race, doesn't mean that these three little kids should learn possibly sordid details that could traumatize them. To those kids, he's "Dad." They know enough. If there's more that could be seen as just piling on, I'm all for thinking of those kids. Not in the sense of the ubiquitous phrase, "for the children." I mean for the sake of these three young kids in this particular situation.

Apparently [wanting] being Mayor is.

fixed that for ya.
:)

Apparently being Mayor is.Just because he didn't think this through, doesn't mean he'd do it again if he could. Go ask the guy instead of attempting to demonize someone you have only read about. Have you ever met him personally?

Just because he didn't think this through, doesn't mean he do it again if he could. Go ask the guy instead of attempting to demonize someone you have only read about. Have you ever met him personally?
OK, plupan, keep that in mind the next time you start ranting about Obama. :)

OK, plupan, keep that in mind the next time you start ranting about Obama. :)When have I "ranted" against Obama(seriously, I am sure I have in the past, but I don't remember doing it on this forum, perhaps I have and don't bother going through the trouble to look it up...if I have and remember, I'll be truthful about it)? I do not like his political beliefs and where he wants to take the country, but that doesn't mean I don't like him. He has showed what I thought would happen through his actions. Obama is probably a very nice person and just like Ed Shadid, I am sure he loves this country and wants what is best for it, I just don't agree with his strategies.

Also, keep in mind we are talking about the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES vs. a councilman or possible mayor where you can schedule an appointment to see him. I helped Mick not too long ago pass out flyers and met the guy. I eat lunch about once a month with Charles Lamb, mayors are not hard people to talk to and meet. The President of the US, yeeeeaaaaah, go try and have a chat with him and let me know how far you get.

When have I "ranted" against Obama(seriously, I am sure I have in the past, but I don't remember doing it on this forum, perhaps I have and don't bother going through the trouble to look it up...if I have and remember, I'll be truthful about it)? I do not like his political beliefs and where he wants to take the country, but that doesn't mean I don't like him. He has showed what I thought would happen through his actions. Obama is probably a very nice person and just like Ed Shadid, I am sure he loves this country and wants what is best for it, I just don't agree with his strategies.

Also, keep in mind we are talking about the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES vs. a councilman or possible mayor where you can schedule an appointment to see him. I helped Mick not too long ago pass out flyers and met the guy. I eat lunch about once a month with Charles Lamb, mayors are not hard people to talk to and meet. The President of the US, yeeeeaaaaah, go try and have a chat with him and let me know how far you get.

Thanks for your comments, plupan. My point is still very valid and I'll let you go back and read your comments about Obama if you choose to.

Just because he didn't think this through, doesn't mean he'd do it again if he could. Go ask the guy instead of attempting to demonize someone you have only read about. Have you ever met him personally?

He had a golden opportunity to drop out a couple of day ago with some dignity and respect intact. Instead, he doubled down by telling everyone his 12 year old daughter told him to keep fighting.

It's 5:30 and nothing on the Oklahoman's Web site nor the local TV stations. Did everybody drop the ball on analyzing/disseminating what was in Shadid's file?

Look for the Sunday above the fold dok investigative journalism(state workers and poliotical enemies). Merry Christmas everyone and check out this sad divorce.

Thanks for your comments, plupan. My point is still very valid and I'll let you go back and read your comments about Obama if you choose to.I'll have to think and go back and try and find some posts where I ranted against him. Sometimes when I discover an issue it will upset to a length where I will make irrational rants.

He had a golden opportunity to drop out a couple of day ago with some dignity and respect intact. Instead, he doubled down by telling everyone his 12 year old daughter told him to keep fighting.Whatever happened to never giving up? Can we not respect people for that? "Oh, I've done and said some stupid things in the past, I'll just give up... done".

It's a sad world we live in today when news publishers feel the need to drag Ed's family into this and demonize him for mistakes he has made.

He brought his family into this. You are going to be vetted by the media and the public if you are going to be ruling over the people in any capacity. This will include judgments of your character, family issues (because since family is close and knows you best, how they are treated is a very good barometer of how a person acts normally), past actions, etc.

You want to elect someone that you know a lot about, enough to know if they will be a good steward of the power you are loaning them. Ed clearly has been a poor steward of the power he has had in the past.

Oh really, please explain how he brought his family into it...

By running for office.

This will have a huge impact on the race...Instead of Mick winning 65% of the vote he will now get 70% lol

This is looking pretty good right now :)

Ed Shadid new FB picture https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/883819_10152133470125309_536331227_o.jpg

I just wonder if Ed has ever been to a Thunder game ?

He brought his family into this. You are going to be vetted by the media and the public if you are going to be ruling over the people in any capacity. This will include judgments of your character, family issues (because since family is close and knows you best, how they are treated is a very good barometer of how a person acts normally), past actions, etc.

You want to elect someone that you know a lot about, enough to know if they will be a good steward of the power you are loaning them. Ed clearly has been a poor steward of the power he has had in the past.

Magnificently stated, catch.

End.

Of.

Thread.

I just wonder if Ed has ever been to a Thunder game ?

His tax dollars have. Considering his income level, probably more so than your average fan's.



Moneyball

Five years since its arrival, the OKC Thunder has benefited from more than $139 million in taxpayer dollars.

Oklahoma Gazette News: OKC Thunder (http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-17635-moneyball.html)

David??? Duh. We approved most of those taxes at the polls. Ed gave tacit approval by choosing not to vote. Even Wanda Jo Stapleton has changed her tune. What the Thunder have done for OKC is immeasurable, both financially and in terms of the gravitas they lend our city.

But....lets say the Thunder came asking again and Ed were mayor. Anyone think he could see the big picture?

His tax dollars have. Considering his income level, probably more so than your average fan's.



Moneyball

Five years since its arrival, the OKC Thunder has benefited from more than $139 million in taxpayer dollars.

Oklahoma Gazette News: OKC Thunder (http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-17635-moneyball.html)


So his tax dollars have been to a game ???

That's not my question. I'll ask it again.....I wonder if Ed has ever been to a Thunder basketball game ?

His tax dollars have. Considering his income level, probably more so than your average fan's.



Moneyball

Five years since its arrival, the OKC Thunder has benefited from more than $139 million in taxpayer dollars.

Oklahoma Gazette News: OKC Thunder (http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-17635-moneyball.html)

I read the article and makes for a nice headline. Let's look at the details from article. The three incentives were exemption for sales tax on tickets, Quality Jobs Rebate, and improvements to the Ford Center and Practice facility. Starting with the exemption on ticket sales tax. This dates back to the Hornets and benefits all pro sports franchises...not just the Thunder. I think it is a joke to say this costs the taxpayer money. Seriously, we are going to count a waiver on sales tax for a ticket to a game that wouldn't be here previously. Let's see.....no Thunder.....no ticket to sell. What was the loss here? We still collect sales tax on all the merchandise and food/beer sold inside. The Quality Jobs rebate is up to 5% on taxes paid for new jobs. Once again.......This isn't money being generated by the taxpayers but is a rebate of money they are paying in for jobs that wouldn't be here otherwise. The employee is still paying taxes on their portion so the State is still making money. Looking at another Gazette article that was linked to the article you posted, in the 2011-12 fiscal year, the QJR program refunded 68.9 million dollars on $17 billion in new wages paid That is not a typo....$17 Billion in new wages!. The average wage was $59,000 per year. Other companies receiving rebates were Chesapeake, Devon, Coca Cola, Halliburton, Direct TV, Wal Mart, Sandridge, Conoco, Dell, as well as another 143 companies. I sure do not have a problem with $17 Billion in new wages that are still paying taxes and also spending other money.
Last is the improvements which were voted on by the people of OKC. Funny thing about a democracy is that sometimes you don't get your way because you are in the minority. I don't swim in the city pools or new splash parks, go to senior citizen centers or run on the trails but doesn't mean I don't have to pay my portion because it makes my city more attractive to outsiders and provides a better place to live for many people AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, the majority of citizens voted for it.

The article doesn't take into account the national attention the Thunder bring to our city as well as the visiting fans from the other teams and our fans from outside OKC that come to games and spend money on hotels, food, gas, etc. Every one makes money off the Thunder. I am a DUI attorney and some fans make bad choices that generates income for my business not to mention the bondsmen, treatment providers and court system. I am not a BB fan and have only been to one game but when it comes to the financial side...I am a huge Thunder Fan!

Oklahoma Gazette News: Quality Jobs recipients (http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-16921-quality-costs.html)

I read the article and makes for a nice headline. Let's look at the details from article. The three incentives were exemption for sales tax on tickets, Quality Jobs Rebate, and improvements to the Ford Center and Practice facility. Starting with the exemption on ticket sales tax. This dates back to the Hornets and benefits all pro sports franchises...not just the Thunder. I think it is a joke to say this costs the taxpayer money. Seriously, we are going to count a waiver on sales tax for a ticket to a game that wouldn't be here previously. Let's see.....no Thunder.....no ticket to sell. What was the loss here? We still collect sales tax on all the merchandise and food/beer sold inside. The Quality Jobs rebate is up to 5% on taxes paid for new jobs. Once again.......This isn't money being generated by the taxpayers but is a rebate of money they are paying in for jobs that wouldn't be here otherwise. The employee is still paying taxes on their portion so the State is still making money. Looking at another Gazette article that was linked to the article you posted, in the 2011-12 fiscal year, the QJR program refunded 68.9 million dollars on $17 billion in new wages paid That is not a typo....$17 Billion in new wages!. The average wage was $59,000 per year. Other companies receiving rebates were Chesapeake, Devon, Coca Cola, Halliburton, Direct TV, Wal Mart, Sandridge, Conoco, Dell, as well as another 143 companies. I sure do not have a problem with $17 Billion in new wages that are still paying taxes and also spending other money.
Last is the improvements which were voted on by the people of OKC. Funny thing about a democracy is that sometimes you don't get your way because you are in the minority. I don't swim in the city pools or new splash parks, go to senior citizen centers or run on the trails but doesn't mean I don't have to pay my portion because it makes my city more attractive to outsiders and provides a better place to live for many people AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, the majority of citizens voted for it.

The article doesn't take into account the national attention the Thunder bring to our city as well as the visiting fans from the other teams and our fans from outside OKC that come to games and spend money on hotels, food, gas, etc. Every one makes money off the Thunder. I am a DUI attorney and some fans make bad choices that generates income for my business not to mention the bondsmen, treatment providers and court system. I am not a BB fan and have only been to one game but when it comes to the financial side...I am a huge Thunder Fan!

Oklahoma Gazette News: Quality Jobs recipients (http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-16921-quality-costs.html)

Excellent post!

Thanks for all your cheerleading about the Thunder. None of it has anything to do with the simple fact the taxpayers are the central star of the show.

Some of us voted for and all of us financed the arena to start with. Then some of us voted for and all of us financed the improvements to the arena. We taxpayers continue to finance the Thunder in the various ways outlined.

I wonder why some people want to sweep that all under the rug and are so afraid to give credit where due?


Yes, there are lots of benefits for us doing so and we can go on for pages about it. The central fact above remains. Every taxpayer has ownership of the Thunder being here.

As far as tax exempt tickets go, people spend their entertainment dollars either way. Now a good bit of that has been shifted to tax exempt Thunder tickets. Formerly much of it would have been taxed.

Bellaboo...I don't know and don't care if Ed has ever been to a game. I'll let you worry on about that. I'm gonna bet he's paid a good share of the taxes that got them here.

Now here's a rhetorical question for you, how many people are there in the Metro who have paid taxes to support the Thunder but can't afford their tickets?

Guess you shouldn't have brought it up in post 2510 if you don't like it.

The latest study I saw was that the city (along with area business), receive around 1.25 million dollar impact every time the Thunder have a home game.....the investment in them is starting to pay off well. They are guaranteed 43 home games a year not counting playoffs.

Now here's a rhetorical question for you, how many people are there in the Metro who have paid taxes to support the Thunder but can't afford their tickets?

Almost no one. There are $10 tickets and free tickets. If you can afford to go to a movie you can afford to go to a game. There are 1000 tickets for sale the day of the game, and they are the least expensive ones. The Thunder give away 100 free tickets to every game which you have a chance to win by standing in line. The players give free tickets away as well to various organizations.

Bellaboo...I don't know and don't care if Ed has ever been to a game. I'll let you worry on about that. I'm gonna bet he's paid a good share of the taxes that got them here.

Now here's a rhetorical question for you, how many people are there in the Metro who have paid taxes to support the Thunder but can't afford their tickets?

Mkjeeves,

Everyone can afford a $10 dollar ticket.....or at least they should. The Thunder give away 100 pair of these by raffle to every home game, not sure about the playoffs on this, and they have several hundred more for sale at this same price. The NBA requires this of every arena in the league, to give those not quite fortunate the opportunity to attend games.

My point about Ed, is that his tickets as a councilman would be free, if he chose to attend. I've never seen him at a game, but that's why I ask if anyone else has...

And by the way, I don't, have not and never will worry about Ed.

Guess you shouldn't have brought it up in post 2510 if you don't like it.

The latest study I saw was that the city (along with area business), receive around 1.25 million dollar impact every time the Thunder have a home game.....the investment in them is starting to pay off well. They are guaranteed 43 home games a year not counting playoffs.


Wonderful. Cheerlead on. Doesn't change the central fact of the importance of the taxpayers.


1.25 million dollar impact

Which does not mean 1.25 million paid back of the millions and millions spent by the city. Gross versus net.

Please rave on about something besides the taxpayers and pretend they were not and are not important in your world.

... Now here's a rhetorical question for you, how many people are there in the Metro who have paid taxes to support the Thunder but can't afford their tickets?

Courtside seats, or Loud city?
For the former, a large part of the population, just like any city where there are pro sports and tickets for sale.
For the latter, the folks who can not afford a loud city ticket are, way more likely than not, very few. Even someone who strives to get by on only a disability check could manage to take in an occasional game. He or she might need to forego some higher priced convenience food in favor of getting creative with seasonings, beans and rice, but let's be real, Loud City tickets are not bank busters or cause for someone to actually go hungry.

In my opinion you need a different drum to thump on other than ticket pricing.

I happen to be a taxpayer.... and if I had to guess, maybe more than you are, but then maybe not.

The voters chose to spend tax money on the Thunder and I suspect if they were asked they'd vote to do the same even more overwhelmingly. Go ask a few Ward 7 voters and get an education. There's local television coverage as well, so that people who can't afford to go to every game can watch them on television. If you don't think the poor and less well off get pleasure from the Thunder, then you don't know many. I work with them every day, and I see more Thunder gear on the poor than anyone else. The team is a great conversation starter for me with the kids. Go to any inner city school and see if the kids don't recognize the names Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook. Those kids are more likely to have met them than we are. And the poor aren't different from the rest of us, you know. They take pride in their city as well. They love sports as much as anyone else. No one should discount what this team has done for all citizens of OKC.

The voters chose to spend tax money on the Thunder and I suspect if they were asked they'd vote to do the same even more overwhelmingly. Go ask a few Ward 7 voters and get an education. There's local television coverage as well, so that people who can't afford to go to every game can watch them on television. If you don't think the poor and less well off get pleasure from the Thunder, then you don't know many. I work with them every day, and I see more Thunder gear on the poor than anyone else. The team is a great conversation starter for me with the kids. Go to any inner city school and see if the kids don't recognize the names Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook. Those kids are more likely to have met them than we are. And the poor aren't different from the rest of us, you know. They take pride in their city as well. They love sports as much as anyone else. No one should discount what this team has done for all citizens of OKC.



Cheerleader on. Whatever you do, don't give the taxpayers the credit due. Go ahead with page after page of not doing that.

Cheerleader on. Whatever you do, don't give the taxpayers the credit due. Go ahead with page after page of not doing that.

What is she cheerleading? Are you just trying to ruffle feathers and take away the dicussion on ES? You asked a rhetorical questions and multiple posters on here answered your questions that tickets are $10 and everyone can afford them. Are you stumped by the fact that your insinuation was wrong and people called you out on it?

By the way, I will go on record and say the taxpayers of OKC, Mick Cornett and Clay Bennett's group are all the people who are responsible for bringing the Thunder to OKC. The taxpayers financed the building and renovation of the arena and the building of the practice facility and the tax breaks for the Thunder for bringing in higher paying jobs that were not already here. Mick Cornett fought tooth and nail to get the Hornets to get here after Katrina which opened the door for a relocation of the Sonics after they were unable to get an arena deal done in Seattle. Is that what you wanted to here? All three are very important and one could not have succeeded without the other.

I give the taxpayers all the due, as does David Stern, the Thunder organization, Mayor Cornett and everyone else I know. Without the taxpayers, OKC would be the dusty backwater city we werein the 70s and 80s. But we've gotten back a lot more than we've given.

But if you want to support someone for mayor who is one of us and sees the big picture, watch Councilman Pettis. He's got almost as much experience as Shadid and is politically years older than him already. He'll fight for his constituents but also puts the city first as well. He understands compromise and waiting your turn. He may be the person many of us can agree on someday. That's if he stays in politics and wants to run someday.

When Wanda Jo isn't even on your side, mkjeeves, the only people you're hangin with are the most rabid tea partiers. Save your arguments for MAPS 4. Time to go back to discussing who should be mayor.

I heard a rumor today that ex-Commerce Secretary David Lopez was considering a possible run if Cornett does not run. Anyone know anything about him?

Put away your multiple straw men and other falicies of whatever side you would like to argue against irrelevant to my point. My argument on the issue is against the inference of who does and who does not have ownership. The taxpayers have the largest stake. That includes Ed. Period.

Cheerleader on. Whatever you do, don't give the taxpayers the credit due. Go ahead with page after page of not doing that.

You're starting to sound like Edgar, but that's okay, I kind of like Edgar.

You're starting to sound like Edgar, but that's okay, I kind of like Edgar.

You sound like you've always sounded, someone far more interested in attacking posters than arguments.

But Ed didn't vote yes or no on the arena tax so his participation isn't unwilling but rather, indifferent.

Straw man.

You sound like you've always sounded, someone far more interested in attacking posters than arguments.

When issues are explained using crayons and some posters still don't get it, then yes it's a little frustrating. But I respect that everyone has an opinion and the ability to post.....continue on.

Cheerleader on. Whatever you do, don't give the taxpayers the credit due. Go ahead with page after page of not doing that.Initially, I tended to support your Great Leader on the basic principle of "always vote the incumbents out" but his actions -- and even more so, yours and Edgar's in this thread -- have convinced me to agree with Betts and Bellaboo about his disqualifying character defects.

Keep it up. Maybe you'll succeed in getting rid of others who may not have decided yet!

And FWIW, I just sent the county my ad valorem tax payment for the year, and nowhere on the bill did it mention support of the Thunder. The city and the state, not the county, provide their tax incentives, and that means anyone who pays sales tax is helping with the investment since sales tax is the primary source of income for the city.

Cheerleader on. Whatever you do, don't give the taxpayers the credit due. Go ahead with page after page of not doing that.

You may be very nice in person, but on this board you come across like a snide jerk. You also seem like a very angry or deeply aggrieved person. It's obvious that you're for Shadid even though you initially claimed you were going to vote for Cornett. When you start off disingenuously, it's hard to take anything you say seriously.

It is comical that Shadid is wrapping himself in the Thunder flag when we know very well what a miserable joke it would have been if he were mayor, trying to negotiate for our city to get an NBA team.

First of all, he wouldn't have even tried.

But assuming he did, for just a minute, he would have said the wrong things to Stern and that would have been it for OKC.

One of his primary campaign staff members ran a single-issue crusade against the arena tax, without which we wouldn't have had the Thunder. Circular logic. These people don't get it.

After speaking to numerous Ed Shadid supporters in person, it's clear they know very little about how city government works and just want someone who calls himself a progressive in office.

You may be very nice in person, but on this board you come across like a snide jerk. You also seem like a very angry or deeply aggrieved person. It's obvious that you're for Shadid even though you initially claimed you were going to vote for Cornett. When you start off disingenuously, it's hard to take anything you say seriously.

Likewise, except I hold no illusions you may be different off the board.

Cheerleader on. Whatever you do, don't give the taxpayers the credit due. Go ahead with page after page of not doing that.

What in the holy hell are you talking about? I'm not even sure what argument you're trying to make. No one is saying that the taxpayers didn't bring them here.

???

What in the holy hell are you talking about? I'm not even sure what argument you're trying to make. No one is saying that the taxpayers didn't bring them here.

???

To quote The Dark Knight:

Because some men aren't looking for anything logical. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

Nah, it isn't really about folks wanting to see the city burn. It may merely be about burying the info that came about about the challenger. Focus a mayoral race thread on a basketball team on a forum full of thunder fans and you can fill a page or three fairly quickly.

Much faster than if one discussed where the two candidates stand on real issues that the city and the next mayor will need to address.

Then again, a lil basketball banter never hurt much of nobody no how.

"Ward 2 Councilman Ed Shadid has voted in just four city elections since 2000, a sharp contrast to the voting records of most other city council members and Mayor Mick Cornett."

Shadid voted in few Oklahoma City elections in contrast to mayor | News OK (http://newsok.com/shadid-voted-in-few-oklahoma-city-elections-in-contrast-to-mayor/article/3922811)

Oh Jesus, this guy gets better by the day. And by better, I mean a hilariously bad and arrogant.

One wonders things when the mind gets bored.
Example: if someone sole a doll of the challenger, would it come with a fork to stick in it, or would that be an optional accessory?

You mean the Oklahoman is doing another hit piece on Shadid? Naw...

You mean the Oklahoman is doing another hit piece on Shadid? Naw...

The Oklahoman is a biased newspaper, no doubt. This time, however, I agree with their bias. Shadid needs to be shut down.