His style of leadership is one that stirs the pot to get people talking and doing something. He is okay dwelling in the messiness of public discourse even if that means there is not a false united front on certain issues. In his world few issues are settled without a healthy skepticism and questioning of the status quo. Civic engagement is the end and not just the means.

And I still find this appalling. One would hope fire/police union leadership will step carefully around this divisive and obviously personal rhetoric.

You know how politics work don't you? You support those who support your interest. Ed has been willing to listen to what Police and Fire have to say. Same as Griener. All we asked is that they be willing to sit down and talk. We have made it perfectly clear that we don't expect them to support us all the time. But please be willing to sit down and listen to our side. Who would you support? Someone who isn't willing to shake hands or someone willing to listen to you?

I hope he listens to some of this early feedback and changes his tone to something that resonates more with his base. Ali Harter is playing at his August 15 rally. Perhaps she will be a better spokesperson for what he is all about.

His style of leadership is one that stirs the pot to get people talking and doing something. He is okay dwelling in the messiness of public discourse even if that means there is not a false united front on certain issues. In his world few issues are settled without a healthy skepticism and questioning of the status quo. Civic engagement is the end and not just the means.

That's fine. I just don't consider that leadership. Stir the pot, have public discourse, have public input, then build bridges and seize consensus to get you to policy implementation.

Arguably, if he could get that last part in his "style", he might be a great Councilman. Otherwise, that is a perfect role for a Councilman, but arguably not necessarily a Mayor.

I don't mean that a mayor shouldn't have these attributes, but that position seems more the role of moderator, spokesman, and leader to help (hopefully organically developed) council consensus convert into policy implementation.

You know how politics work don't you?

Yep I do.

It isn't a debate when you are flinging falsehoods. It's just a false tirade.

Do you care to back up this statement?



I welcome a debate. You've stated your premise. Let's hear the evidence.

Lets start with a tally. You'll have to help me out here. I do not claim to be all knowing. So, where are the senior centers?
We do have new libraries, one south and one north, are there more than those two? We have closed most if not all the pools and have some splash parks. Any new golf courses? Lets talk trails. Well, actually lets talk sidewalks. I can leave my neighborhood and make it to Earlywine, that's nice! What else? Well not much else. I said almost if you remember. Now hear me out! I really enjoy downtown!!! We go down to the twilight concert series. It's awesome! It's funded by Devon. My wife rows. We love Bricktown! But, we have a whole city, not just downtown.

Yep I do.

Way too much of the previous quote went unanswered!

I hope he listens to some of this early feedback and changes his tone to something that resonates more with his base. Ali Harter is playing at his August 15 rally. Perhaps she will be a better spokesperson for what he is all about.

But how can we trust what he says? He's shown that he'll either lie or fudge the truth, depending on how generous you want to be, be misinformed or "change his mind" if it suits him. At this point, if he does an about face, it's for purely political reasons.

I'm a Democrat, and a fairly liberal one. Although I wasn't in his ward, I helped campaign for Shadid. I have a lot of regret about that and won't make the same mistake twice.

adding quote

Way too much of the previous quote went unanswered!

There was way too much irony in your comments between Ed and transit/boulevard advocates to even get into it tonight Mike. I would be on this forum all night and I have work to do.

Let's just say that the hand has been extended to Ed many, many, many times. Too much irony...

Lets start with a tally. You'll have to help me out here. I do not claim to be all knowing. So, where are the senior centers?
We do have new libraries, one south and one north, are there more than those two? We have closed most if not all the pools and have some splash parks. Any new golf courses? Lets talk trails. Well, actually lets talk sidewalks. I can leave my neighborhood and make it to Earlywine, that's nice! What else? Well not much else. I said almost if you remember. Now hear me out! I really enjoy downtown!!! We go down to the twilight concert series. It's awesome! It's funded by Devon. My wife rows. We love Bricktown! But, we have a whole city, not just downtown.

Mike,

1. The senior centers are in the planning stages. Mick just toured senior centers in Little Rock, and that was a great move considering they've done a senior centers. We're going to be modeling ours after their plan. At least Mick is doing his homework. With the original MAPS it took about 6-8 years to complete the first project and many more years until the last project was completed. If you remember right, there were budget problems, consultant studies, etc. that had to happen before the projects could be built. The 15,000 seat originally proposed ballpark came in way over budget. It was scaled back, although it still ended up being one of the nicest minor league ballparks in the nation. Chesapeake Arena almost wasn't built due to naysayers and budget problems. But Flintco came in way under budget, so it was built. All the same applies here. You want to plan right before you start turning soil. Senior centers will be built. There may not be 4. There may be 2 large ones, north and south. But, they will be built after we study and determine what the best plan is for them.

2. Libraries: with the 2 new libraries we have new or renovated libraries in every part of the city. What more do you want?

3. Pools/splash pads. The old pools could've been renovated. But, there would've been the high cost of renovation and the need to hire staff to manage them. City council opted that the best use of city money was to convert the properties to splash pads. Problems?

4. Sidewalks: OKC has gone years and years without building side walks. Think of how much mileage city limits covers. If you thought that MAPS 3 was going to provide side walks everywhere, you were dreaming. MAPS 3 promised to continue the new plan of bidding a sidewalk to be included in every street rebuilding project. That's it. As far as trails go, we have now completed a city-wide system of trails connecting our 3 lakes and everything in between.

5. Parks: Every park has new playground equipment, picnic tables, awnings shading those tables, etc. Been out to Bluff Creek Park lately? It's nice. Check it out. New trails, brand new playground equipment, new cooking equipment, etc. Stars and Stripes Park was also completely redone. All of the parks have brand new playground equipment....did I mention that? Route 66 Park is new.

6. Golf Courses? Really? The last thing we need is a new golf course. We have plenty around the metro. Take your pick. NE side: Lincoln park. NW side: Hefner. Southside: Earlywine. And to be fair, at Lincoln Park Golf Course, they are in the midst of building a brand new club house. Get out of your suburban house and drive down there some time. It's going to be nice.

7. Streets: wow! This has been a complaint for a long time, but I have to admit, I'm getting tired of seeing all of the construction work. There are far more resurfacing projects going on around town than I've ever seen in a lifetime. I think we're close to being caught up.

I continue to be flabbergasted to hear that all of the work is being done downtown. There are far more projects being done around the metro than just downtown. Here we are complaining about a $777 million MAPS plan that provides about $600 million invested downtown. But don't forget that we're also in the midst of a $1 billion bond issue that is investing in infrastructure projects all around the metro. I just don't see why everyone's complaining. I guess people are getting sucked into the false warped tin-foil beliefs of Ed Shadid, believing that everything is being done downtown.

So, Mike, if you think everything is being done downtown, what is currently being done downtown? Okay, a new elementary school. Well, 1 downtown elementary school is being built for 77 other renovated schools across the rest of the metro. What else?

Last time I checked almost every project being done downtown at the moment is private investment. Yes, several of the MAPS 3 projects will invest money in downtown, but that's in the future. Project 180.....you can thank Devon for that one. The new Devon Tower: yup, thank Devon. The new Kerr Park: thank Sandridge. The new Sandridge campus: thank Sandridge. All of the housing projects are private enterprise. Stage Center: private enterprise.

Soonerguru, This has nothing to do with Maps 3. You know it's was passed right? Maps 3 is the law of the land. Nothing will change that. This is about Mayoral leadership and who is best to do that. I think is is time for Mick to seek success elsewhere. All this talk about consensus building confuses me, Mick a consensus builder! That is funny, he has been a puppet of the big money since the beginning.

Midtowner, being the mayor is about leading! If the mayor thought public safety was a priority he would lead the city in that direction. And could claim responsibility for all the public safety good. This Mayor has made it clear its is not a priority, yet the first few items he claims hes responsible for is public safety. Kinda like claiming responsibility for the sun coming up. The Mayor is the figure head leader of the city. It is the Mayors job to lead the city. Although He has one vote, he is more powerful than the other 8 votes. This Mayor has been almost 100% about downtown. Maybe some like that, maybe some don't. I'm happy to see this get feisty! A little spirited debate won't kill anyone. Oh, by the way how did you get to be so much better than some of the people on here? I mean referring to your fellows citizens as idiots, that's just mean man!

Election, long gone, and still pissed. How Funny

And by the way, I want my mayor to have connections with the big money. It's the big money that invests in our city, provides jobs, helps build infrastructure through TIF money, and builds a tax base. Think of what our city would be like without Devon, Chesapeake, Sandridge, Midfirst Bank, Farmers Insurance, American Fidelity, etc. etc.

Please join me in donating to support Mick for Mayor 2014!

Mick Cornett for Mayor (http://www.mickcornett2014.com)

Mike,

1. The senior centers are in the planning stages. Mick just toured senior centers in Little Rock, and that was a great move considering they've done a senior centers. We're going to be modeling ours after their plan. At least Mick is doing his homework. With the original MAPS it took about 6-8 years to complete the first project and many more years until the last project was completed. If you remember right, there were budget problems, consultant studies, etc. that had to happen before the projects could be built. The 15,000 seat originally proposed ballpark came in way over budget. It was scaled back, although it still ended up being one of the nicest minor league ballparks in the nation. Chesapeake Arena almost wasn't built due to naysayers and budget problems. But Flintco came in way under budget, so it was built. All the same applies here. You want to plan right before you start turning soil. Senior centers will be built. There may not be 4. There may be 2 large ones, north and south. But, they will be built after we study and determine what the best plan is for them.

2. Libraries: with the 2 new libraries we have new or renovated libraries in every part of the city. What more do you want?

3. Pools/splash pads. The old pools could've been renovated. But, there would've been the high cost of renovation and the need to hire staff to manage them. City council opted that the best use of city money was to convert the properties to splash pads. Problems?

4. Sidewalks: OKC has gone years and years without building side walks. Think of how much mileage city limits covers. If you thought that MAPS 3 was going to provide side walks everywhere, you were dreaming. MAPS 3 promised to continue the new plan of bidding a sidewalk to be included in every street rebuilding project. That's it. As far as trails go, we have now completed a city-wide system of trails connecting our 3 lakes and everything in between.

5. Parks: Every park has new playground equipment, picnic tables, awnings shading those tables, etc. Been out to Bluff Creek Park lately? It's nice. Check it out. New trails, brand new playground equipment, new cooking equipment, etc. Stars and Stripes Park was also completely redone. All of the parks have brand new playground equipment....did I mention that? Route 66 Park is new.

6. Golf Courses? Really? The last thing we need is a new golf course. We have plenty around the metro. Take your pick. NE side: Lincoln park. NW side: Hefner. Southside: Earlywine. And to be fair, at Lincoln Park Golf Course, they are in the midst of building a brand new club house. Get out of your suburban house and drive down there some time. It's going to be nice.

7. Streets: wow! This has been a complaint for a long time, but I have to admit, I'm getting tired of seeing all of the construction work. There are far more resurfacing projects going on around town than I've ever seen in a lifetime. I think we're close to being caught up.

I continue to be flabbergasted to hear that all of the work is being done downtown. There are far more projects being done around the metro than just downtown. Here we are complaining about a $777 million MAPS plan that provides about $600 million invested downtown. But don't forget that we're also in the midst of a $1 billion bond issue that is investing in infrastructure projects all around the metro. I just don't see why everyone's complaining. I guess people are getting sucked into the false warped tin-foil beliefs of Ed Shadid, believing that everything is being done downtown.

So, Mike, if you think everything is being done downtown, what is currently being done downtown? Okay, a new elementary school. Well, 1 downtown elementary school is being built for 77 other renovated schools across the rest of the metro. What else?

Last time I checked almost every project being done downtown at the moment is private investment. Yes, several of the MAPS 3 projects will invest money in downtown, but that's in the future. Project 180.....you can thank Devon for that one. The new Devon Tower: yup, thank Devon. The new Kerr Park: thank Sandridge. The new Sandridge campus: thank Sandridge. All of the housing projects are private enterprise. Stage Center: private enterprise.

Patrick just dropped the mic and ended the thread. Go home everyone

I registered to volunteer.

My whole family is volunteering.

Election, long gone, and still pissed. How Funny

Wow, Junkie your crack pipe really needs to cool off before you try to read! Pissed? How much more could I say I love downtown?

I hope he listens to some of this early feedback and changes his tone to something that resonates more with his base. Ali Harter is playing at his August 15 rally. Perhaps she will be a better spokesperson for what he is all about.

People are so desperate for a "progressive" they will jump onboard with this turncoat. It's depressing, really. And sadly, it provides a great poster boy for the conservative chamber types to pick on. Progressive politics can be about providing solutions, not just stirring the pot.

I'm ready for a Cory Booker or Wendy Davis-type Mayor. Who's with me? Know anyone?

Trails, sidewalks, fairgrounds, senior centers, and you can at least argue that the Oklahoma River is not strictly downtown: MAPS 3 is certainly not completely downtown-centric. MAPS 2(for Kids) was not at all. I think the argument that MAPS has only been for downtown smacks of politics.

Regardless, as someone who has lived outside of downtown for 25 of the 30 years I've lived here, my first emotions on seeing downtown when I moved here were shock and dismay. As someone who lived miles from downtown, I was extremely excited about and proud of what we accomplished with MAPS I. I was thrilled at Mayor Cornett's coup in getting the Hornets here and paving the way for the eventual move of the Thunder. Driving downtown to a Hornets game, I caught my first sight of what would become my home, sitting in the midst of empty fields with the closest things a railroad track and Ruedy's garage. It was what we'd accomplished with MAPS I that made me take the leap of faith to move downtown. When I see what MAPS has done for my city, what a complete turnaround in civic pride has occurred, I'm shocked that people question it. When I spend time downtown at the movies, at the concerts at the Myriad (and I'm there almost every Sunday with thousands of other cityans), at Thunder games, at meetings at the Public Library and events at the Civic Center, I see far more people than my downtown neighbors. I see people of every socioeconomic and ethnic group enjoying their downtown, the one they've taxed themselves to build.

And I privately thank mayors Norick, Humphries and Cornett for their contributions to this amazing renaissance. I'm finally proud to show my city off to visiting friends and relatives, to tell people I'm from here. Of course, they always say, "Oh yes, the Thunder."

My DIL worked for Ed. Said he was a good boss. She is a mobile hospice nurse now. I don't live within OKC political district but it does effect all cities and towns close by.

I'm ready for a Cory Booker or Wendy Davis-type Mayor. Who's with me? Know anyone?

Ready for them how? Cory Booker is mayor in a Strong Mayor system of government in Newark. Is that what you're advocating? Wendy Davis is a State Senator in Texas and is looking at running for Governor. I'm not sure what they have that you're ready for. I might agree, but what did you mean?

Cornett barely beat Hunt. You guys are in denial if you think he wins in a landslide. Cornett is a puppet. At least Shadid stands up for the people and what is right and makes sense. He is also not afraid to do so. MAPS 3 is for special interest not the people. Unlike its predecessors.

Wow, Junkie your crack pipe really needs to cool off before you try to read! Pissed? How much more could I say I love downtown?

But you cant do it without the usual "poor old, abused public safety BS"

Cornett barely beat Hunt. You guys are in denial if you think he wins in a landslide. Cornett is a puppet. At least Shadid stands up for the people and what is right and makes sense. He is also not afraid to do so. MAPS 3 is for special interest not the people. Unlike its predecessors.

Is Shadid against the purchase of Santa Fe Station?

Is Shadid against the purchase of Santa Fe Station?

Perhaps it's one of his campaign promises? I also remember a promise he made to support timely completion of all MAPS 3 projects as outlined.

Cornett barely beat Hunt. You guys are in denial if you think he wins in a landslide. Cornett is a puppet. At least Shadid stands up for the people and what is right and makes sense. He is also not afraid to do so. MAPS 3 is for special interest not the people. Unlike its predecessors.

Congrats, you win the award for the most inaccurate comment on the thread so far. Would you like your prize shipped via UPS or FedEx?

Perhaps it's one of his campaign promises? I also remember a promise he made to support timely completion of all MAPS 3 projects as outlined.

I just wondered if Shadid was more interested in supporting Santa Fe Station special interests rather than supporting a key step in building a regional transit system.

Cornett barely beat Hunt. You guys are in denial if you think he wins in a landslide. Cornett is a puppet. At least Shadid stands up for the people and what is right and makes sense. He is also not afraid to do so. MAPS 3 is for special interest not the people. Unlike its predecessors.

This seems to be what most of the Shadid supporters seem to be hanging their hat on. They seem to forget Cornett did literally no campaigning.

Shadid has money and he does seem to connect with people. He can win but he has a hard argument to make. It is going to be hard to convince people Cornett has done a bad job.

Cornett barely beat Hunt. You guys are in denial if you think he wins in a landslide. Cornett is a puppet. At least Shadid stands up for the people and what is right and makes sense. He is also not afraid to do so. MAPS 3 is for special interest not the people. Unlike its predecessors.

Not sure what kind of drugs you're on -

But the last time I checked : Trails, Sidewalks, Streetcars, Wellness Centers, River Improvements........Are for the People.

Not sure what kind of drugs you're on -

But the last time I checked : Trails, Sidewalks, Streetcars, Wellness Centers, River Improvements........Are for the People.

So are the central park and the transit for that matter. I hate it when I hear people say that MAPS is only for the rich. Right, the rich are the only ones who go to the ballpark, Thunder games, canal, civic center, library, river, a park, use transit, walk, exercise or do anything else that MAPS has helped and will help. The fairgrounds improvements help with trade shows coming in. The new convention center will help bring better conventions and that will benefit all the hotels, restaurants, retail establishments, etc in the area.

My DIL worked for Ed. Said he was a good boss. She is a mobile hospice nurse now. I don't live within OKC political district but it does effect all cities and towns close by.

Being a surgeon and being mayor are two different things.

Cornett barely beat Hunt. You guys are in denial if you think he wins in a landslide. Cornett is a puppet. At least Shadid stands up for the people and what is right and makes sense. He is also not afraid to do so. MAPS 3 is for special interest not the people. Unlike its predecessors.

Cornett beat Hunt by 16 points. That's not bad considering no one showed up to vote because it was Cornett against a no name. Basically, all of the Hunt supporters showed up and the Cornett supporters stayed home.

Shadid stands up for the devil. He's a devil's advocate. He also stands up for Ed. At least Cornett thinks long term and what's best for the city, and not what's best for his own ego. Ed is a puppet for, well, Ed.

You know how politics work don't you? You support those who support your interest. Ed has been willing to listen to what Police and Fire have to say. Same as Griener. All we asked is that they be willing to sit down and talk. We have made it perfectly clear that we don't expect them to support us all the time. But please be willing to sit down and listen to our side. Who would you support? Someone who isn't willing to shake hands or someone willing to listen to you?

Listening to someone and actually doing something that leads to progress are two different things.

Is Shadid against the purchase of Santa Fe Station?

Probably. He's against almost everything, right?

Cornett barely beat Hunt. You guys are in denial if you think he wins in a landslide. Cornett is a puppet. At least Shadid stands up for the people and what is right and makes sense. He is also not afraid to do so. MAPS 3 is for special interest not the people. Unlike its predecessors.

Who would you say Cornett is a puppet for? Who do you think is pulling his strings?

So are the central park and the transit for that matter. I hate it when I hear people say that MAPS is only for the rich. Right, the rich are the only ones who go to the ballpark, Thunder games, canal, civic center, library, river, a park, use transit, walk, exercise or do anything else that MAPS has helped and will help. The fairgrounds improvements help with trade shows coming in. The new convention center will help bring better conventions in that will benefit all the hotels, restaurants, retail establishments, etc in the area.

Thanks to you and Bellaboo for elaborating on my snarky comment, hadn't had my coffee yet. To add to that, how is MAPS III any less for the people than MAPS I? In at least a few cases, MAPS III improves on MAPS I projects like the river and the convention center. The only part that could be considered not "for the people" is the convention center, when as you said, it does in many ways...unless OKCBOY considers all the hotel owners, retailers, restaurant owners, and other business owners around downtown rich members of the Upper Class (I know several...they aren't). Besides all it takes is one convention trip to another peer city or larger city to realize that we need a better convention center. The Cox as it stands is ok, but is too small, behind on amenities, and doesn't have a hotel. Not to turn this into a convention center debate, but something needed to be done about it and every other project on the list is directly for the people.

Cornett beat Hunt by 16 points. That's not bad considering no one showed up to vote because it was Cornett against a no name. Basically, all of the Hunt supporters showed up and the Cornett supporters stayed home.

Shadid stands up for the devil. He's a devil's advocate. He also stands up for Ed. At least Cornett thinks long term and what's best for the city, and not what's best for his own ego. Ed is a puppet for, well, Ed.

This is obviously quite dated, but the last time somebody polled Cornett's approval rating in January 2011 it was around 68 percent, with 44 percent of that strongly approving of his job performance. Nothing has really happened in city government to make me believe this has substantially changed.

Oklahoma Gazette News: Poll position (http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-10540-poll-position.html)

A more recent survey (in which I cannot find the link) that polled people on the general direction of the city was somewhere around 80 percent approval.

This is probably the main reason Shadid has gone negative so fast. He has to convince people that things are not as good as they seem. Which is a very awkward position to be in.

The 2010 race was more of a protest vote for people still steamed about MAPS3. If I am not mistaken, turnout was only about 8-10%.

Steve Hunt held a results party.

Mayor Cornett was at the Thunder game, courtside, just chillin.

That should tell you how serious he took that election.

Is Shadid against the purchase of Santa Fe Station?

I have no reason to think he is against intermodal transit. He has also spent a lot of time advocating for E.K. Gaylord to become a walkable street when the hub is built. Remember, it almost got slashed from Project 180.

It did get slashed. It got re-added when federal funding became available. Sorry, but didn't have anything to do with Ed. Ed did however walk that street with Eric (and me) and advocated heavily for making it pedestrian friendly. We talked a lot about options. I'm still hoping for the best there.

Shadid did bring a lot of attention to this issue when he called out Jim Couch for going forward with street improvements around the Civic Center and quietly cutting EKG completely from their plans.

The whole thing was almost unbelievable, as Eric Wenger stood before City Council with his usual Powerpoint presentation of pretty pictures and made claims like "we are still going to get everything done" while showing a brief graphic that in fact demonstrated they had cut almost 50% of the work that had been originally promised.

I watched that City Council meeting and it was the first time I had ever seen a councilperson make such an open challenge of Couch and Shadid was 100% right. I remember very clearly that Couch said, "Well, something had to come first." Absolutely an absurd answer and just demonstrated how unprepared they were to respond to any real questions, because they get so few. Also, Cornett tried to change the subject just because the whole situation was so uncomfortable and frankly, embarrassing.

It was at this point I gained a great deal of respect for Shadid and became very wary of Jim Couch. Shadid continued to push, asking repeatedly why some streets were given priority over EKG, which had been identified by Jeff Speck as being in the worst need of changes.

Only after Shadid's persistence did Wenger & Couch "find" federal money for this project. Ed may have not been the one that produced the funding, but he was 100% responsible for providing the heat that motivated the City staff to action.


Again, I am not advocating for Ed Shadid OR Mick Cornett. Just trying to point out that Shadid has done some great things for the City and deserves credit for his efforts.

That's not the sequence of events as I understand it but that's okay. I wasn't looking to debate it.

Didn't mean my comments as a contradiction to what you posted, just an elaboration.

Here is a post I made about that City Council meeting at the time:

Project 180 - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Project%20180&page=12#post493039)

From a blog post...

"This race can potentially derail Oklahoma City’s political status quo. If Shadid wins, he will need to learn how to play nice with the downtown growth activists.... If Cornett wins, he must find a way to reconcile complaints from the relatively ignored, quasi-suburban neighborhoods left behind by his MAPs-centric tenure. Failure on either side will potentially jeopardize Oklahoma City’s revitalization efforts."

bit.ly/1ev6yuX

^
No offense, as I don't know if you wrote this or not. But there is lots of sweeping generalizations and inaccuracies in that blog post.


Focus on downtown has come at (some) cost to neighborhoods. I recently read that the northwest side is a “suburban wasteland” with burnt out buildings and poor services. The focus downtown has come at a cost borne by middle- and working-class neighborhoods

By far the biggest problem I have with this.

This is what Ed Shadid wants people to believe. The northwest side has creeping levels of blight, aided by absentee landlords and their crumbling apartment complexes. But it is far from a wasteland, and I don't see how MAPS3 caused this. Can anyone show where police, fire, code enforcement, or street maintenance budgets were cut and funneled downtown? You can't because it didn't happen.

Shadid would be wise to come out on a broken windows-like platform to fix this, but alas I doubt it. Much easier to lie and blame "downtown interests."


Shadid is also correct that the current plan for the streetcar is ridiculous. Advocates are correct that most of the largest cities in the country feature either light rail or a mass transit gimmick. However, this is an ad populum argument. If everyone were jumping off of bridges, should OKC jump too?

By far the highest rated project during the planning phase was the streetcar. And probably still is. So yeah, I guess OKC will jump off that bridge.


All things considered, Cornett will likely win reelection

Yep. Independent of any sort of scandal, the candidate who is for something generally beats the candidate who is against everything.

I live on the NW side. I have friends who have bought homes between May & I-44 around 36th street, nestled in and improved them. I'm further out, and yeah there are seedy apartments with no caring residents, but it's hardly a wasteland.

I would argue that the issues with northwest OKC have to do with TOO MUCH spending on infrastructure in far north OKC.

Basically, the City keeps building roads and providing utilities that only encourage turning cow pastures into tract housing and thus, people keep moving further and further out. And of course, there is absolutely no planning involved... Just rubber stamp every new plat that gets submitted.

I've posted this many times but the huge percentage of the people I went to Putnam City with in '70's now live in the Edmond school district and our old neighborhoods have really gone downhill.

This has much more to do with the City spending funds that encourage ridiculous sprawl. If anything, the investments downtown give people some reason to stay closer in.

Regarding the suburban wasteland critique:
http://www.okctalk.com/ask-anything-about-okc/33138-what-happened-nw-okc.html

Actually, the outdoor/parks were the highest approved program in MAPs 3. Streetcars had more support than dissent, but not a majority in the poll.
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/griffin/NEWS9/PDF/0909/MAPS3PollResults.pdf

I am simply echoing the neighborhoods-first argument brought about by Shadid. By nature, focusing somewhere means that you are not focusing somewhere else. Does that mean I am advocating ceasing the downtown projects? Of course not. But is it dangerous to continue ignoring corridors like 10th street west of Penn? Yes, it will eventually lead to a mobilization of anti-downtown and pro-neighborhood folks.

I would argue that the issues with northwest OKC have to do with TOO MUCH spending on infrastructure in far north OKC.

Basically, the City keeps building roads and providing utilities that only encourage turning cow pastures into tract housing and thus, people keep moving further and further out. And of course, there is absolutely no planning involved... Just rubber stamp every new plat that gets submitted.

I've posted this many times but the huge percentage of the people I went to Putnam City with in '70's now live in the Edmond school district and our old neighborhoods have really gone downhill.

This has much more to do with the City spending funds that encourage ridiculous sprawl. If anything, the investments downtown give people some reason to stay closer in.

Agree 100%. The usual cycle of suburban decay is not Mayor Cornett's fault and has nothing to do with MAPS 1, 2, or 3.

Now if one wants to really address sprawl/decay, why not ask why the vast majority of the $700 million bond issue work is going on in the suburban areas? Streets weren't fixed in the inner suburban areas, they were doubled in size along the far extremes further enabling the vicious cycle. Certainly seems like those funds could have been better used. But once again it wasn't Mayor Cornett's "fault"

From a blog post...

"This race can potentially derail Oklahoma City’s political status quo. If Shadid wins, he will need to learn how to play nice with the downtown growth activists.... If Cornett wins, he must find a way to reconcile complaints from the relatively ignored, quasi-suburban neighborhoods left behind by his MAPs-centric tenure. Failure on either side will potentially jeopardize Oklahoma City’s revitalization efforts."

bit.ly/1ev6yuX'

Again, I don't know how we've been ignoring the suburbs. I live in the burbs, and frankly, if I see another street reconstruction project around NW 164th, I'm going to puke.

Regarding the suburban wasteland critique:
http://www.okctalk.com/ask-anything-about-okc/33138-what-happened-nw-okc.html

Actually, the downtown park was the highest approved program in MAPs 3. Streetcars had more support than dissent, but not a majority in the poll.
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/griffin/NEWS9/PDF/0909/MAPS3PollResults.pdf

I am simply echoing the neighborhoods-first argument brought about by Shadid. By nature, focusing somewhere means that you are not focusing somewhere else. Does that mean I am advocating ceasing the downtown projects? Of course not. But is it dangerous to continue ignoring corridors like 10th street west of Penn? Yes, it will eventually lead to a mobilization of anti-downtown and pro-neighborhood folks.

The best hope for 10th and Penn is the Plaza District. Restaurant/retail centers usually lead to surrounding gentrification in cities. It's actually good old fashioned capitalism that does the most good in blighted areas. However, that makes the area suddenly unaffordable for those currently living there. To where should they move? Unless we have massive redistribution of wealth, neighborhoods too become a version of whack a mole. You move the have nots to housing projects or they find newly blighted areas in which to live and unless you change something that area becomes the new problem. Fostering neighborhood pride and creating a sense of community works better than almost anything.

But I would agree with previous posters. It's rather condescending and elitist to assume people without a lot of money don't enjoy downtown amenities. They have leisure time too, and aren't really so different from anyone else.

Most of the complainers dont seem to have bothered to educate themselves, though. I don't know how many I've had to tell about the almost billion dollar bond issue we passed, much of which was earmarked for road improvement. Or the ruling about sidewalks. They conveniently forget that there are sidewalks, trails and senior centers MAPS projects outside the core. MAPS is what has created the incredible city-wide momentum we are all enjoying.

Cornett barely beat Hunt. You guys are in denial if you think he wins in a landslide. Cornett is a puppet. At least Shadid stands up for the people and what is right and makes sense. He is also not afraid to do so. MAPS 3 is for special interest not the people. Unlike its predecessors.

I've worked in politics basically my entire adult life. In no situation is getting 58% of the vote considered "barely beat(ing)" anyone, especially when you don't actively campaign. In fact, most campaigns would consider garnering 58% a very solid buttkicking.

And, actually, if Cornett wanted to turn truly nasty in this campaign and operate as if he's running typical partisan campaign, which I don't believe he does or will do, he could absolutely DESTROY Shadid in South OKC where Cornett did poorly last time. Just tell all the conservative, Church-going south OKC voters about the details of Shadid's run for the Green Party nomination and it's game over.

Again, I don't think Cornett wants to get partisan because I don't think that's his nature or style, but if push came to shove came ground and pound, I have no doubt Cornett's campaign could unleash an neutron bomb of an attack that would sink Shadid.

I'm a betting man and I'm willing to bet Cornett gets at least 58% of the vote against Shadid in March.

Regarding the suburban wasteland critique:
http://www.okctalk.com/ask-anything-about-okc/33138-what-happened-nw-okc.html

You would be wise to go back and read that thread. Most people echoed the decline in rental properties as the main culprit in NW OKC's issues. It is certainly not a wasteland, however. And ironically, save for a precinct or 2, NW OKC was the most enthusiastic about MAPS3.


Actually, the outdoor/parks were the highest approved program in MAPs 3. Streetcars had more support than dissent, but not a majority in the poll.
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/griffin/NEWS9/PDF/0909/MAPS3PollResults.pdf

I consider 49.9% pretty dang close to a majority.


I am simply echoing the neighborhoods-first argument brought about by Shadid. By nature, focusing somewhere means that you are not focusing somewhere else. Does that mean I am advocating ceasing the downtown projects? Of course not. But is it dangerous to continue ignoring corridors like 10th street west of Penn? Yes, it will eventually lead to a mobilization of anti-downtown and pro-neighborhood folks.

It will only lead to a mobilization of anti-downtown types if certain politicians feel the need to create an "us vs. them" mindset in order to get elected, versus confronting the complicated but real consequences of sprawl.

Being a surgeon and being mayor are two different things.

Being a sportscaster definitely prepares one to be Mayor!

But you cant do it without the usual "poor old, abused public safety BS"

Bro! I was only pointing out the fact that the Mayor is bragging about his accomplishments!

And adaniel has come full circle, agreeing with the main point of the argument.

Shadid at least is willing to work on MAPs 3 projects. The next pro-neighborhood guy might take a far more anti-downtown stance. The emergence of a group that is outwardly belligerent towards boosting downtown will be what jeopardizes revitalization. The way to solve this problem before it starts is convincing folks in Cornett's spot to work with the folks in Shadid's spot.

This political pattern can be seen in plenty of cities transitioning from major minor cities to minor major cities. It would be far better to have cooperation (like San Francisco or Atlanta) than to have discord.

Regarding the suburban wasteland critique:
http://www.okctalk.com/ask-anything-about-okc/33138-what-happened-nw-okc.html


People moved to the new shiny houses being built on farmland even farther out in the periphery or in the suburbs. It has everything to do with developers needing to keep developing, as it's their job, and farmland being cheaper than tearing down and rebuilding in the inner city. But again, the more you improve amenities in the center, the more appealing it is to move back to those blighted neighborhoods and revitalize them. Our next generation understands that. If my kids lived here, they'd be buying property near the Plaza, I know. It's just like the neighborhood they live in in Chicago. They're not afraid of a little grunge and don't want everything to be bright and shiny. The next generation will likely be the salvation of our cities, IMO.

Shadid at least is willing to work on MAPs 3 projects.

You're sure about this?

I've said this before: The "All the investment is going into Downtown" trope that is being discussed in this thread is not only false on the basis that plenty of money is indeed being spent elsewhere in OKC, it's also disingenuous on the basis of centrality of major public projects.

You cannot make the argument that the MAPS park is a downtown development. It's a grand centralized park...it's an investment in NW, NE, SE, SW and Central Oklahoma City, as are many of the other public projects that end up in downtown. You simply can't make the argument that too much money is going downtown without sounding like NW-OKC elitist...people in the other 3 quadrants deserve equitable access to these amenities that are for OKC, not downtown specifically.

The true downtown-specific developments (Streetcar for one) from public monies are probably in the correct proportion to downtown-ish population and suburban-ish population

Shadid at least is willing to work on MAPs 3 projects.


You're sure about this?

I think he meant "work over" MAPS projects with mis/disinformation until they are not built as promised.

It is very disappointing Ed has chosen that path. If he wanted to change the way MAPS was structured, then work on doing so with MAPS 4. I can see where that may be something that should be considered but not by violating the public trust by destroying MAPS3. I liked many things Ed did as a councilman and went all in on the boulevard. But lately I have been let down by the willingness to be a divisive force that cannot affect changes of any sort because the rest of the city leadership has been alienated to the point their focus is on the messenger rather than the message.

Shadid at least is willing to work on MAPs 3 projects.

You're sure about this?
Yeah, the best feel I get for this is that Dr. Shadid is at least willing to work to get MAPs 3 money to go towards things he thinks are important, but not necessarily those in the minds of the voters.