I celebrate the progress we have made as a city, not denying it. I am just saying that there is still more to do. Unemployment numbers do not measure quality of life for the working poor. I would also argue that local communities have the best opportunity to address poverty by harnessing the social capital of neighborhoods, non-profits, religious communities, and small businesses. We have seen how effective the federal government is in addressing these disparities, even from a Democratic President. No doubt, the poor enjoy leisure time but not all have the same access to downtown amenities. Perhaps increasing evening and weekend bus service would help. As the urban core has become gentrified it has displaced less affluent families to the inner ring of older suburban neighborhoods.

Krisb:

We all celebrate the progress Oklahoma City has made in the last two decades. I'm so proud to call Oklahoma City home.

We live in a world were they hear a FEW success stories about someone getting out of poverty and making it one or two levels above; this makes them believe that
there are opportunities for all. Some of them will go so far as to tell you that they had a hard and difficult life. They have no idea what povety is about other than a dictionary definition. Unless you have lived in povety--you can only visualize that stony road. Let us not forget those veterans in our city; those forgotten ones who served their country and some who died only that others would have a better life.

We live in a society where things are getting better. As you mentioned; communities can step up by addressing these disparities. The working poor aren't looking for a hand out--they are looking for a break. Those of us who are comfortable with our situation; why should we care?

Could any concentration of wealth at the top be too much? | MinnPost (http://www.minnpost.com/eric-black-ink/2013/03/could-any-concentration-wealth-top-be-too-much)


Who said life is/was fair? Niccolo Machiavelli's summed it up in "The Prince," that this is a 'dog eat dog' society; does some of that hold true today? The answer lives within our own true hearts.

Ed's plan is to build world class bus shelters throughout the city with matching federal dollars. The City would keep the ad revenue rather than give 100% to Tyler Media. In his estimate, the revenue generated would pay for construction of the shelters as well as an increase in service on nights and weekends.

This Year?s Investment in Bus Shelters Will Yield Significant Dividends to City of OKC - Ed Shadid (http://www.edshadid.com/this_year_s_investment_in_bus_shelters_will_yield_ significant_dividends_to_city_of_okc)

Awesome ideas. As councilman, he is just as able to work on that project as he would be if he was mayor, so why has this not already happened?

The new bus routes will be revealed by the time any investment in bus shelters. In fact, the routes have pretty much been determined. Final tweaks happening on a couple routes and then off for approval. For many of the routes, the shelters could go in today with no risk.

Thank you for the info.

Awesome ideas. As councilman, he is just as able to work on that project as he would be if he was mayor, so why has this not already happened?

*More Able.

If he's mayor, he can't even effect his ideas in Ward 2 like he is planning to do (and I love hearing that my councilman is going to invest in my ward's mass-transit infrastructure).

What kind of contract do we have with the existing bus furniture provider/advertiser? Can the city add stops and keep the revenue? Can we break the contract?

People have been talking about the need for bus shelters long before Ed Shadid decided he cared. There was even a design competition in the recent past. I applaud him trying to improve them, but don't think that makes him more worthy of the office of mayor than Mick Cornett. I would also like to hear the details, and how the city's prior contract affects his plan.

What kind of contract do we have with the existing bus furniture provider/advertiser? Can the city add stops and keep the revenue? Can we break the contract?

The city can always break its contracts. There may be a question about what it'll cost, but if we're talking about trading a few hundred thousand in revenue for millions, it's kind of a no brainer.

I like the idea of improving the bus shelters, but the basic question is:

Where do we build them?

Our bus routes are ineffective and in the process of being redesigned. It seems premature to invest in permanent infrastructure until we improve the routes / bus system first. Right?

So let's say we start throwing all of this money at bus shelters and then determine the routes are going to change (as they need to). There is a sequence to this and building the shelters now is out of sequence. Let's build the system we want first.

Easy. If they are designed thoughtfully enough, they could be modular/portable units that could be relocated and reconfigured as necessary to accommodate any potential changes.

What kind of contract do we have with the existing bus furniture provider/advertiser? Can the city add stops and keep the revenue? Can we break the contract?

People have been talking about the need for bus shelters long before Ed Shadid decided he cared. There was even a design competition in the recent past. I applaud him trying to improve them, but don't think that makes him more worthy of the office of mayor than Mick Cornett. I would also like to hear the details, and how the city's prior contract affects his plan.

Ed says the advertising contract issue can be dealt with and has been ignored for some time. He also wonders why nothing has happened since 2005 following the design competition. This is an opportune time to address the issue because of federal matching dollars.

Also, COTPA has identified the highest priority locations in each ward in need of bus shelters.

Krisb, as I have said, my mind is not decided about the mayoral campaign, and it probably won't be for a few months. There are things that I like, and dislike, about each candidate ... although I'm leaning towards voting for Cornett (not that I like him better ... I actually like Cornett less than I do Shadid, who I actually do like).

But, I've got to hand it to you. You seem to have weathered the onslaught of criticism here very well and appear to be no worse for the wear. Under the circumstances (i.e., many if not most forum members here having already decided their votes and several being quite vocal about it), I've got to give you an A+ for stamina, broad shoulders, and the like. Keep it up!

Agreed, Mick is a chamber tool and toady of barons for sure. He was willing to forever change council protocol and not delay the MAPSIII timeline vote until Dr Shadid could get back in town after his flight was cancelled. MAPIII hijacked the process and will make any future votes difficult I would imagine. Will our barons cover the operating deficits the cc is going to generate since it's mostly their quality of life it's going to improve?

No, we DON'T agree. It is Shadid that jeopardizes the future of progressive and beneficial actions like Maps, not Mick.

ED SHADID IS WORKING TO KILL THE STREETCAR. Information has come to light about some rather dirty dealings in the last 24 hours. This guy doesn't support the people. If he did, he would support their will. He will be voting against the streetcar tomorrow and has sold out to kill this project. He will have to answer for this from the voters, and they will be well informed.

WATCH ED VOTE AGAINST THE STREETCAR TOMORROW. It will happen. And stay tuned for the fact check of his arguments.

Krisb, as I have said, my mind is not decided about the mayoral campaign, and it probably won't be for a few months. There are things that I like, and dislike, about each candidate ... although I'm leaning towards voting for Cornett (not that I like him better ... I actually like Cornett less than I do Shadid, who I actually do like).

But, I've got to hand it to you. You seem to have weathered the onslaught of criticism here very well and appear to be no worse for the wear. Under the circumstances (i.e., many if not most forum members here having already decided their votes and several being quite vocal about it), I've got to give you an A+ for stamina, broad shoulders, and the like. Keep it up!

Thanks for the encouragement. I believe there is wisdom in listening to many voices and not always accepting the consensus view without dialogue. I have seen the strengths (and weaknesses) of both candidates play out. The main reason I am a Shadid supporter is his concern for quality of life for everyone in Oklahoma City and his responsiveness to neighborhood concerns, including my own. I am not anti-Mick, but pro-Ed...if that makes any sense.

What are these neighborhood concerns that everyone talks about with Shadid? That to me is a vague area, one also which could encompass many things that a mayor (or council) for that fact maybe can't even help.

The concerns include crumbling neighborhood infrastructure, crime, lack of sidewalks, parks improvements, and placemaking opportunities. Traditionally mayors have not "meddled" in the affairs of neighborhoods. Which is why I am intrigued by the prospect of a mayor inviting neighborhoods to the table. I will give you one example: My own neighborhood has been encouraged by Councilman Shadid and our traffic commissioner to "dream big" with our vision of connecting our neighborhood to Will Rogers Park via sidewalks and crosswalks. Things are in the works because of their efforts and we feel like our voice is valued.

The concerns include crumbling neighborhood infrastructure, crime, lack of sidewalks, parks improvements, and placemaking opportunities. Traditionally mayors have not "meddled" in the affairs of neighborhoods. Which is why I am intrigued by the prospect of a mayor inviting neighborhoods to the table. I will give you one example: My own neighborhood has been encouraged by Councilman Shadid and our traffic commissioner to "dream big" with our vision of connecting our neighborhood to Will Rogers Park via sidewalks and crosswalks. Things are in the works because of their efforts and we feel like our voice is valued.

This word...it kills me. Maybe I'm just not into urban buzzwords like some are. To me, I think of "placemaking" and I think of stuff already in action via MAPS.

Infrastructure encompasses many things. Are you concerned with your water/sewer service? Storm drainage?

Crime is a touchy one, but one in which I don't believe is solved by more cops or better equipment. I think it has more to do with sociological issues, but that's for another forum and another thread.

This word...it kills me. Maybe I'm just not into urban buzzwords like some are. To me, I think of "placemaking" and I think of stuff already in action via MAPS.

Infrastructure encompasses many things. Are you concerned with your water/sewer service? Storm drainage?

Crime is a touchy one, but one in which I don't believe is solved by more cops or better equipment. I think it has more to do with sociological issues, but that's for another forum and another thread.

Organized neighborhoods with the help of city leaders can make a difference in addressing all of these issues, even the sociological ones. Building community is what neighborhood associations and "placemaking" is all about. The difference is that MAPS 3 placemaking has been limited to downtown. Great cities are made up of great walkable neighborhoods. They become the urban fabric of the city (i.e. Western Avenue, Paseo, and the Plaza District).

Downtown has desperately needed place making. You cannot even imagine what downtown was like pre-MAPS. A strong downtown makes a strong city. It is the glue that holds neighborhoods together. Now that we are getting our downtown to an acceptable place, with MAPS IV or other bond issues we can turn even more of our attention to neighborhoods. But it is also the responsibility of neighborhoods to ask for help, if they want it. Schools are a key core institution for neighborhoods and MAPS II was all about improving school infrastructure. The bond issue was to improve streets and add sidewalks, and MAPS III has sidewalk and trail improvements, senior centers and fairground improvements. It's not really been all about downtown since MAPS I.

krisb - please define "neighborhood" for us. I do not call the people who live next to me "adjacent property owners" - I call them my neighbors. Are the places north of Memorial Road less worthy of the "neighborhood" label? What about those places that people live along 178th? How about Western and 164th? Do they count? If Edgemere is a "neighborhood", then aren't Talavera or Fenwick or Quail Creek neighborhoods also? They will never see a streetcar in their neighborhood, but they supported MAPS3 because of the obvious good the program has done for our city. Yes they are definitely more suburban in design than traditional "neighborhoods" that you and many Shadid supporters hold up as the ideal. But those people pay OKC taxes (a fairly high amount too) yet from the tone of your comments they are somehow less worthy of being served by the city in which they reside.

I think we can and should encourage better development patterns in the city, but pitting one set of OKC citizens against another based on where they live is counterproductive and should be beneath anyone who wants to be mayor. So far, one candidate has failed this simple test.

I'm thankful that there is "placemaking" going on in my neighborhood, and I credit Councilman McAtee and Mayor Cornett. We are getting new streets, sidewalks, place markers, lighting, pedestrian crossings, and decorative intersections.

Shadid acts like nothing happened until he decided to get involved in civic issues two years ago. Wrong. Just look at the Plaza and other areas that were improved long before he even cast a vote on a city issue.

I'm thankful that there is "placemaking" going on in my neighborhood, and I credit Councilman McAtee and Mayor Cornett. We are getting new streets, sidewalks, place markers, lighting, pedestrian crossings, and decorative intersections.

Shadid acts like nothing happened until he decided to get involved in civic issues two years ago. Wrong. Just look at the Plaza and other areas that were improved long before he even cast a vote on a city issue.

MAPS started the transformation of OKC long before the light shone down from above on I-40 too.

Downtown has desperately needed place making. You cannot even imagine what downtown was like pre-MAPS. A strong downtown makes a strong city. It is the glue that holds neighborhoods together. Now that we are getting our downtown to an acceptable place, with MAPS IV or other bond issues we can turn even more of our attention to neighborhoods. But it is also the responsibility of neighborhoods to ask for help, if they want it. Schools are a key core institution for neighborhoods and MAPS II was all about improving school infrastructure. The bond issue was to improve streets and add sidewalks, and MAPS III has sidewalk and trail improvements, senior centers and fairground improvements. It's not really been all about downtown since MAPS I.

Agreed. There are also Bond projects every 7-10 years that are greater than the MAPS budgets. Great cities have urban infrastructure beginning downtown and extending outward. Downtown DC is great, but there is so much character and vitality in the neighborhoods of Dupont Circle, Adams Morgan, Georgetown, Foggy Bottom, etc. The same thing can happen here if we apply the principles of urban design throughout the city.

krisb - please define "neighborhood" for us. I do not call the people who live next to me "adjacent property owners" - I call them my neighbors. Are the places north of Memorial Road less worthy of the "neighborhood" label? What about those places that people live along 178th? How about Western and 164th? Do they count? If Edgemere is a "neighborhood", then aren't Talavera or Fenwick or Quail Creek neighborhoods also? They will never see a streetcar in their neighborhood, but they supported MAPS3 because of the obvious good the program has done for our city. Yes they are definitely more suburban in design than traditional "neighborhoods" that you and many Shadid supporters hold up as the ideal. But those people pay OKC taxes (a fairly high amount too) yet from the tone of your comments they are somehow less worthy of being served by the city in which they reside.

I think we can and should encourage better development patterns in the city, but pitting one set of OKC citizens against another based on where they live is counterproductive and should be beneath anyone who wants to be mayor. So far, one candidate has failed this simple test.

To answer your question, neighborhoods are neighborhoods and they all deserve basic amenities like sidewalks and walkable destinations. Most of the newer neighborhoods already have sidewalks that's why I tend to focus on the older ones. My own neighborhood is comprised of 1950s homes outside of the designated "urban core." I don't think walkability should be reserved for new subdivisions or historic/urban neighborhoods only. Shadid lives in a very suburban area along NW Expressway, but you can bet he would love to retrofit that area with a walkable "town center" or the like.

I'm thankful that there is "placemaking" going on in my neighborhood, and I credit Councilman McAtee and Mayor Cornett. We are getting new streets, sidewalks, place markers, lighting, pedestrian crossings, and decorative intersections.

Shadid acts like nothing happened until he decided to get involved in civic issues two years ago. Wrong. Just look at the Plaza and other areas that were improved long before he even cast a vote on a city issue.

We must live near each other because I am super excited about the Windsor District's emergence. You are right, much credit is due to those individuals along with very strong and active neighborhood associations and the Windsor Area Business Group.

Interesting column by Steve on Shadid's refusal to state public opposition to the streetcar until today, and a trip down memory lane of the positions he took as a candidate. The ads speak for themselves.

Flashback: Ed Shadid on MAPS 3, Streetcars | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/3886493)

To answer your question, neighborhoods are neighborhoods and they all deserve basic amenities like sidewalks and walkable destinations. Most of the newer neighborhoods already have sidewalks that's why I tend to focus on the older ones. My own neighborhood is comprised of 1950s homes outside of the designated "urban core." I don't think walkability should be reserved for new subdivisions or historic/urban neighborhoods only. Shadid lives in a very suburban area along NW Expressway, but you can bet he would love to retrofit that area with a walkable "town center" or the like.

OK - fair enough. I wanted to make the point that the issues you seem to care most about are nearly universal throughout OKC. The newer developments are required to have sidewalks but they are often an island because the arterial streets often do not have continuous sidewalks. There is a school within sight our my home but my child rode a bus to get there because there were no sidewalks along a busy street. So I think we may share many goals but differ in the route to achieving those goals.

Interesting column by Steve on Shadid's refusal to state public opposition to the streetcar until today, and a trip down memory lane of the positions he took as a candidate. The ads speak for themselves.

Flashback: Ed Shadid on MAPS 3, Streetcars | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/3886493)

WOW - Everything Ed was dogging Charlie Swinton for................... He is doing now...... krisb, here's the proof.....

Organized neighborhoods with the help of city leaders can make a difference in addressing all of these issues, even the sociological ones. Building community is what neighborhood associations and "placemaking" is all about. The difference is that MAPS 3 placemaking has been limited to downtown. Great cities are made up of great walkable neighborhoods. They become the urban fabric of the city (i.e. Western Avenue, Paseo, and the Plaza District).

So the sidewalks and trails portion is all downtown? What about the senior centers? To call this a downtown vs. neighborhood issue is misguided at best.

So the sidewalks and trails portion is all downtown? What about the senior centers? To call this a downtown vs. neighborhood issue is misguided at best.

Not saying downtown vs. neighborhoods. Just saying that placemaking is more than trails, sidewalks, and wellness centers. There must be destinations to walk to.

Shadid acts like nothing happened until he decided to get involved in civic issues two years ago.

That attitude was on full display yesterday at the City Council meeting during the streetcar debate where he once again raised his ridiculous conspiracy theory about the streetcar route. His completely inaccurate view of the nature and history of the route, and his misunderstanding of how thinking about the route went from a hub and spoke concept prior to the MAPS 3 vote to a couplet design is due to the fact that his perception of reality begins when he joined Council and became a part of the discussion. He has almost total disregard for and disinterest in understanding the facts and complexities of the extensive public scoping efforts, technical reviews and decision-making processes that occurred prior to his election. It's NOT that the route selection process took place in a vacuum. It's that his reality of the facts with regard to the route selection process IS a vacuum as to anything that happened prior to his being elected. And it's NOT that many of us didn't make an enormous effort to try to educate him about the streetcar and help him to understand the history that existed before he was elected. It's that he didn't care to listen and decided that his distorted view of reality was the only valid one.

And now he wants to work together to make the streetcar and transit the best it can be. I'm sorry, but we don't need his kind of help. We're doing just fine without him.

Not saying downtown vs. neighborhoods. Just saying that placemaking is more than trails, sidewalks, and wellness centers. There must be destinations to walk to.

Right. But Maps can't build restaurants, entertainment venues, stores, etc and neither can GO Bonds. They can, however, build the transportation infrastructure with which to get there.

Interesting fact - GO Bonds for sidewalks only are not considered a public utility by the state (namely an amenity) and thereby require a super majority (above 60% - not 66%, actually) in an election. Streets, bridges, drainage, public buildings, and parks only require simple majority (above 50%). Staff looked into that issue when preparing the 2007 GOB. That's definitely something that I personally think needs to be changed before the next GOB so that we can construct more sidewalks.

Not saying downtown vs. neighborhoods. Just saying that placemaking is more than trails, sidewalks, and wellness centers. There must be destinations to walk to.

Are wellness centers not destinations to walk to?

As far as this goes, again why is it the mayor's responsibility to oversee placemaking all over the city? It seems like more of a private development issue. Associations and city groups all over the city are taking up the job, whether that be the Plaza, Uptown, Windsor or where ever. It's those associations' jobs to put proposals together to get money from the city for street scaping, sidewalks, etc, if they want something to get done. Has Cornett or the city council ever said "absolutely no" to any requests by these areas? In the windsor area you mentioned, they are already adding sidewalks and streetscape improvements. I'm not sure what you think Ed is going to do, that Mick or the government under Mick hasn't done.

Our city leaders back when had a vision for downtown. What's good for downtown is good for OKC! We do not have a similar vision and support with our leaders now, (and especially from the majority of posters on this board,) but instead, lots of pushback on moving forward with 95% of what makes up OKC, IE, retrofitting suburbia. What is offered here is "you fix it or get the developers to fix it."

That's not the history of maps or fixing it in OKC. We need that vision followed by leadership.

That may or may not have anything to do with Ed. It does apply to our current mayor. Where is his vision?

Our city leaders back when had a vision for downtown. What's good for downtown is good for OKC! We do not have a similar vision and support with our leaders now, (and especially from the majority of posters on this board,) but instead, lots of pushback on moving forward with 95% of what makes up OKC, IE, retrofitting suburbia. What is offered here is "you fix it or get the developers to fix it."

That's not the history of maps or fixing it in OKC. We need that vision followed by leadership.

That may or may not have anything to do with Ed. It does apply to our current mayor. Where is his vision?

You can see his vision with the current MAPS. What would you like to see added everywhere else that isn't being done now?

Man, that is simply not true nor fair. I'm 100% for retrofitting suburbia. Who else here is in favor it?

What could/should we be doing in the suburban neighborhoods that we are not?

I have heard a lot of push back about the new park and why doesn't the city update and maintain the current neighborhood parks instead of building something new. Of course public safety has said time and time again that they need help, but that is whole different subject/thread.

MAPS 3 is going to provide miles and miles of sidewalks and trails, none of which are downtown.

I think the main thing people want to see is the streets fixed up, but a lot of that is being taken care of with the 2007 GO bond.

It seems like there is a disconnect with a lot of people who are against MAPS 3 thinking it is all for the rich and they are the ones that stand to benefit and that is just not true either.

Man, that is simply not true nor fair. I'm 100% for retrofitting suburbia. Who else here is in favor it?

What could/should we be doing in the suburban neighborhoods that we are not?

If the shoe fits, sid, and I don't believe it does in your case. I'm not going to go look up the prior discussions and point fingers at specific people other than our leaders.

For the sake of argument, lets say everyone is for it including the mayor. He's our leader. Where has he, or anyone who represents the city, articulated the vision and plan for doing so ? If he or they have set out a clear vision there would be no discussion. There isn't a vision, much less any related leadership in that direction.


You can see his vision with the current MAPS. What would you like to see added everywhere else that isn't being done now?

For starters, you can read the whole thread at the first link or you can save yourself some grief and just read the other posts at the links following the first link.

http://www.okctalk.com/suburban-development-buildings/34267-maps-suburbia.html

http://www.okctalk.com/suburban-development-buildings/34267-maps-suburbia-4.html#post659214


http://www.okctalk.com/suburban-development-buildings/34267-maps-suburbia-6.html#post660277

http://www.okctalk.com/suburban-development-buildings/34267-maps-suburbia-6.html#post660304

Maps 3 collections end in 2017. So, rather than complaining, think of some specific projects that are feasible components of a MAPS IV. Contact your city councilor. When the discussion of MAPS projects or bond projects comes up, make sure he or she is aware of what consituents would like to see. Improving a city the size of this one requires citizen involvement, because no one person, mayor or councilor, can be aware of all the needs and issues of the city on a micro scale.

Personally, I would like to see a permanent 1/2 cent tax for transit. I realize that the word permanent is a scary one, but if we create a bigger, improved transit system, we will have to be able to continue to fund O&M and expansion. If we can get Norman, Edmond and Midwest City to do the same, then we have the opportunity to make massive changes in the way people move around this city. As far as other projects go, I feel like downtown has a lot of nice things. I'd like to see the Native American Cultural Center completed, but that's probably not a MAPS appropriate item. The river is still a fairly blank slate, and perhaps moving improvements to the south side of the river would jump start development there. Otherwise, I'd definitely vote for projects that are for outlying areas, but I don't want to see transit ignored. That truly is for all of us.

Maps 3 collections end in 2017. So, rather than complaining, think of some specific projects that are feasible components of a MAPS IV. Contact your city councilor. When the discussion of MAPS projects or bond projects comes up, make sure he or she is aware of what consituents would like to see. Improving a city the size of this one requires citizen involvement, because no one person, mayor or councilor, can be aware of all the needs and issues of the city on a micro scale.

Personally, I would like to see a permanent 1/2 cent tax for transit. I realize that the word permanent is a scary one, but if we create a bigger, improved transit system, we will have to be able to continue to fund O&M and expansion. If we can get Norman, Edmond and Midwest City to do the same, then we have the opportunity to make massive changes in the way people move around this city. As far as other projects go, I feel like downtown has a lot of nice things. I'd like to see the Native American Cultural Center completed, but that's probably not a MAPS appropriate item. The river is still a fairly blank slate, and perhaps moving improvements to the south side of the river would jump start development there. Otherwise, I'd definitely vote for projects that are for outlying areas, but I don't want to see transit ignored. That truly is for all of us.

Condescending much? The topic was/is leadership at the mayor level.

Our mayor is a city councilor with a vote. He's done a pretty amazing job of getting himself invited to speak at meetings, interviewed on television and quoted in magazine articles. He certainly helped get the streetcar on the list of MAPS projects, but that's the only one I was very aware of. He has helped raise Oklahoma City's national image to an almost unbelievable extent. He got me my Thunder. I'm very happy with his leadership because I'm happy with the way the city is progressing. Do I think he's the best mayor possible? Probably not. Would I rather have a mayor with a vision? It depends on whether he says it or does it. And then, whether I agree with it.

I'm not condescending. You have a thin skin, I have observed, or if I'm misinterpreting, as is common on the internet, you have a chip on your shoulder. But, I was raised to do something myself if I wanted it done and/or done right. We have very responsive city councilors (for the most part). I first got to know the mayor when I wrote him with ideas I had and he actually wrote me back and we began a dialogue. I have found our city councilors to be very proactive (again, for the most part) for their constituents. But, if they don't know what their constituents want, it's hard to advocate for it. So, my advice is, if you want something, ask for it. Don't expect anyone to read your mind. Or read your post.

...
It is hard to imagine how Ed would handle the national stage. The same way he has handled the local stage?

Not hard to imagine at all. The state and national stages are chock full of my way or the highway talking heads that haven't much to offer, but offer it up loud and proud all the same.

Our city leaders back when had a vision for downtown. What's good for downtown is good for OKC! We do not have a similar vision and support with our leaders now, (and especially from the majority of posters on this board,) but instead, lots of pushback on moving forward with 95% of what makes up OKC, IE, retrofitting suburbia. What is offered here is "you fix it or get the developers to fix it."

That's not the history of maps or fixing it in OKC. We need that vision followed by leadership.

That may or may not have anything to do with Ed. It does apply to our current mayor. Where is his vision?


Streetcars, trails, sidewalks, wellness centers, convention center, white water facility, etc........

I think until the mayor comes to their neighborhood, on their street, on their block, and says "we are going to do this," there will always be complaints by some of the mayor's office not paying enough attention to their needs.

I think until the mayor comes to their neighborhood, on their street, on their block, as says "we are going to do this," there will always be complaints by some of the mayor's office not paying enough attention to their needs.

That's what I'm thinking.

I don't need Ed Shadid to come to my neighborhood to tell us to make it a better place. We have an active non-overbearing HOA who works tirelessly to make our neighborhood great. I'm proud to say I help in that.

Does this count when it comes to paying attention to neighborhood needs?

Oklahoma City mayor's tornado task force issues recommendations | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-mayors-tornado-task-force-issues-recommendations/article/3886680)

I just saw this article when I was looking for news on the streetcar and Jackson, MS had a similar article about OKC. Again, considering where we were 20 years ago, to be held up as a model for cities to emulate is nothing short of amazing.

Louisville mayor: Oklahoma City a model for transforming Kentucky cities (http://www.lanereport.com/23973/2013/08/fischer-oklahoma-city-a-model-for-transforming-kentucky-cities/)

I just saw this article when I was looking for news on the streetcar and Jackson, MS had a similar article about OKC. Again, considering where we were 20 years ago, to be held up as a model for cities to emulate is nothing short of amazing.

Louisville mayor: Oklahoma City a model for transforming Kentucky cities (http://www.lanereport.com/23973/2013/08/fischer-oklahoma-city-a-model-for-transforming-kentucky-cities/)


Don't have a vote, but Mayor Cornett has overall been very good for OKC. I think it foolish to interrupt the great run of proven leaders OKC has had. My two cents

Happened again last night. I'm in Louisiville to give a talk today and last night was a lounge downtown. Someone there had been to a conference in OKC a couple years ago and said, "I've traveled the world and I think that Oklahoma City is one of the most impressive cities. I had no idea that Oklahoma City was as nice as it was."

He even had pictures on his phone he was showing people at our table. Pretty sweet.

Now part of that could have been the bourbon flight talking, for sure but the fact that he had pictures and was obviously pretty excited about it. Anyway, just passing along what I hear. :)

I am going to guess what a lot of the pictures were: Devon Tower (lots of photos), Myriad Gardens, Stage Center, The Peake, The canal, the ballpark, the public art in front of Leadership Square and some of DD. Am I right?

Does this count when it comes to paying attention to neighborhood needs?

Oklahoma City mayor's tornado task force issues recommendations | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-mayors-tornado-task-force-issues-recommendations/article/3886680)

It doesn't fit the narrative Ed's supporters are pushing, so probably not.

Happened again last night. I'm in Louisiville to give a talk today and last night was a lounge downtown. Someone there had been to a conference in OKC a couple years ago and said, "I've traveled the world and I think that Oklahoma City is one of the most impressive cities. I had no idea that Oklahoma City was as nice as it was."

He even had pictures on his phone he was showing people at our table. Pretty sweet.

Now part of that could have been the bourbon flight talking, for sure but the fact that he had pictures and was obviously pretty excited about it. Anyway, just passing along what I hear. :)

This makes my point sooooooo clear. How clear? .....Crystal clear. We Oklahomans have PRIDE again. That boys and girls, is priceless. :)

Let's not let the incredibly small 3 - 5 % slow the entire state down. This is not a race, just a formality. Mr. Cornett, ...keep going, we are proud of you too.

What I would like to hear from Ed is what he wants and how he is going to get it done. Not just "I don't like that Mick Cornett is doing (fill in the blank)." All I have heard so far is "We need more public safety officials and more transparency, etc" but no explanation on how to get it done. Krisb, maybe you can shed some light on this?

This makes my point sooooooo clear. How clear? .....Crystal clear. We Oklahomans have PRIDE again. That boys and girls, is priceless. :)

Let's not let the incredibly small 3 - 5 % slow the entire state down. This is not a race, just a formality. Mr. Cornett, ...keep going, we are proud of you too.

Four years ago, three of my cousins who lived in Columbia, SC and Orlando, FL for their entire life came to visit. We drove down 23rd street (which wasn't as cool then as it is now) to 235, then south, exiting on 6th street taking the Walnut bridge into Bricktown. As I drove over the bridge, two of them said "Wow!" and the other one said, "Dude, Bricktown is f#$king awesome!" We parked by Bass Pro and walked to get on the riverboat. The entire time they were looking around and exclaiming how cool OKC was. I showed them renderings of what the Devon Tower was going to look like and the plans for Project 180. One of them said I must be so proud to live in a cool, fun city with so many things to do... Yeah, yeah, I am...

You know what I'm proud of? Oklahoma City has so many free and low cost activities downtown. Go to a Sunday concert on the lawn at the Myriad Gardens, watch Shakespeare on the water stage or take your kids or grandkids to play in the Thunder fountain and children's play area. Take your dog there to the dog park. Go to the free concerts in lower Bricktown. Watch great local basketball at the Cage. Go to a Redhawks game. Tickets to sit on the lawn are cheap and it's a fun atmosphere there. Stand in line to win free tickets to the Thunder games or buy $10 tickets and enjoy Loud City. Go to a meeting or borrow a book at the Public Library. Visit the art museum, walk along the canal in Bricktown, walk or cycle along the river, visit the Memorial. I can't wait until there are more events at our Central Park. I was just thinking about the fact that our downtown just keeps getting better and better and it's available for everyone. Add in the growth of the Plaza District and 23rd St., think about the potential of the Farmer's Market area and Capitol Hill areas. I see good things ahead for Oklahoma City. I too can say I'm proud to live here.

At this time of the year too, I always say a little mental "thank you" to Mayor Cornett for the exhaustive work he did to bring the Thunder here. I will always remember David Stern laughing about "the mayor who wouldn't go away". That is vision of a sort I can appreciate. Positive vision.

You know what I'm proud of? Oklahoma City has so many free and low cost activities downtown. Go to a Sunday concert on the lawn at the Myriad Gardens, watch Shakespeare on the water stage or take your kids or grandkids to play in the Thunder fountain and children's play area. Take your dog there to the dog park. Go to the free concerts in lower Bricktown. Watch great local basketball at the Cage. Go to a Redhawks game. Tickets to sit on the lawn are cheap and it's a fun atmosphere there. Stand in line to win free tickets to the Thunder games or buy $10 tickets and enjoy Loud City. Go to a meeting or borrow a book at the Public Library. Visit the art museum, walk along the canal in Bricktown, walk or cycle along the river, visit the Memorial. I can't wait until there are more events at our Central Park. I was just thinking about the fact that our downtown just keeps getting better and better and it's available for everyone. Add in the growth of the Plaza District and 23rd St., think about the potential of the Farmer's Market area and Capitol Hill areas. I see good things ahead for Oklahoma City. I too can say I'm proud to live here.

At this time of the year too, I always say a little mental "thank you" to Mayor Cornett for the exhaustive work he did to bring the Thunder here. I will always remember David Stern laughing about "the mayor who wouldn't go away". That is vision of a sort I can appreciate. Positive vision.

I will go out on a limb and proclaim that Ed would not have pursued this venue for us if he were the mayor at the time. I just don't think he has the ability to see the value of something progressive, like a MAPS tax to build facilites that made this happen.

I will go out on a limb and proclaim that Ed would not have pursued this venue for us if he were the mayor at the time. I just don't think he has the ability to see the value of something progressive, like a MAPS tax to build facilites that made this happen.

I agree. I won't go as far to say no Mick Cornett, no Thunder, only because Clay Bennett and the rest of PBC worked tirelessly to "steal" the team from Seattle, but Mick was certainly a very, very integral cog. Of course that completely leaves out getting the Hornets here, so I'm probably not giving him enough credit.

You know what I'm proud of? Oklahoma City has so many free and low cost activities downtown. Go to a Sunday concert on the lawn at the Myriad Gardens, watch Shakespeare on the water stage or take your kids or grandkids to play in the Thunder fountain and children's play area. Take your dog there to the dog park. Go to the free concerts in lower Bricktown. Watch great local basketball at the Cage. Go to a Redhawks game. Tickets to sit on the lawn are cheap and it's a fun atmosphere there. Stand in line to win free tickets to the Thunder games or buy $10 tickets and enjoy Loud City. Go to a meeting or borrow a book at the Public Library. Visit the art museum, walk along the canal in Bricktown, walk or cycle along the river, visit the Memorial. I can't wait until there are more events at our Central Park. I was just thinking about the fact that our downtown just keeps getting better and better and it's available for everyone. Add in the growth of the Plaza District and 23rd St., think about the potential of the Farmer's Market area and Capitol Hill areas. I see good things ahead for Oklahoma City. I too can say I'm proud to live here.

At this time of the year too, I always say a little mental "thank you" to Mayor Cornett for the exhaustive work he did to bring the Thunder here. I will always remember David Stern laughing about "the mayor who wouldn't go away". That is vision of a sort I can appreciate. Positive vision.

This is what it is about.... Vision. Mr. Norick has it. Mr. Cornett has it. ( The mayor that wouldn't go away... I love it.! )

I agree. I won't go as far to say no Mick Cornett, no Thunder, only because Clay Bennett and the rest of PBC worked tirelessly to "steal" the team from Seattle, but Mick was certainly a very, very integral cog. Of course that completely leaves out getting the Hornets here, so I'm probably not giving him enough credit.

If you go back to 92' and see the line we have taken, you couldn't take-out "any" of the efforts ( Individual or Cumulative ). It all was & is a vital part to the success we have Today...Thank you again!

I agree. I won't go as far to say no Mick Cornett, no Thunder, only because Clay Bennett and the rest of PBC worked tirelessly to "steal" the team from Seattle, but Mick was certainly a very, very integral cog. Of course that completely leaves out getting the Hornets here, so I'm probably not giving him enough credit.

This is one of the key differences with Cornett vs. Shadid. Cornett plays well with others. Shadid would read a book about the NBA and instantly reject everyone else's advice and experience even if he came into the picture at the end of the discussion. Shadid would have found a way to tank the Thunder deal and possibly not pursued it in the first place.

Actually he would have read the book, invited the author to a symposium to lecture on the horrors of NBA, then declared himself a genius on sports ownership. He then would have droned on and on in a meeting with David Stern for about 2 hours, claiming a conspiracy by Clay Bennett and other rich "chamber of commerce" types, boring Stern to tears before he finally stands up and says "screw it, we're moving the Sonics to Virginia Beach."

I'm pretty sure it'd play out exactly like that.

Right. But Maps can't build restaurants, entertainment venues, stores, etc and neither can GO Bonds. They can, however, build the transportation infrastructure with which to get there.
Do you not consider Fairgrounds facility improvements, the Ballpark, the Arena, maybe even the Whitewater facility and the other River sports spectator related improvements, Civic Center improvements to be entertainment venues built/improved with MAPS? What about the restaurants that are within those facilities? While not directly funded by a MAPS, the Bass Pro deal was funded by the associated MAPS 4 Kids Use Tax.


Interesting fact - GO Bonds for sidewalks only are not considered a public utility by the state (namely an amenity) and thereby require a super majority (above 60% - not 66%, actually) in an election. Streets, bridges, drainage, public buildings, and parks only require simple majority (above 50%). Staff looked into that issue when preparing the 2007 GOB. That's definitely something that I personally think needs to be changed before the next GOB so that we can construct more sidewalks.
is that why sidewalks were included in the Roads proposition, where road widening projects happen, sidewalks are to be included (rather than a stand alone proposition)?

I posted in the streetcar thread I intend to post some stuff that I know about that is going on. I will do so once I figure out how to explain everything. Some of it I can back up and is easily collated. Other stuff is deduction through observation.

Seeing that school bus and being asked "if I was Nick with Dr. Shadid's campaign." Really threw me for a loop. It was interesting as to who was in attendance at that meeting who did not speak.