Good to have you back in the conversation Steve. As long as you're here connecting dots for the rest of us, how about connecting some in Doug's assertion that your former boss and the mayor conspired to keep any negative reporting about M3 out of print. Now, I know that the majority on here couldn't care less, but it would be interesting to hear about anyway. You know, as long as you're out to champion the truth and all.

MAPS 3 Central Park and the Myriad Gardens | News OK (http://newsok.com/maps-3-central-park-and-the-myriad-gardens/article/3838049)

MAPS 3: The Ballot | News OK (http://newsok.com/maps-3-the-ballot/article/3837669)

MAPS 3 convention center site is being questioned | News OK (http://newsok.com/maps-3-convention-center-site-is-being-questioned/article/3712898)

Architectural award goes beyond Oklahoma City's MAPS 3 | News OK (http://newsok.com/architectural-award-goes-beyond-oklahoma-citys-maps-3/article/3745952)

http://npaper-wehaa.com/oklahoma-gazette/2012/11/28/?g=print#?article=1744186

And Yet More Discussion on the Convention Center | News OK (http://newsok.com/and-yet-more-discussion-on-the-convention-center/article/3838721)

Plans move ahead for convention center, hotel despite collapse in national market | News OK (http://newsok.com/plans-move-ahead-for-convention-center-hotel-despite-collapse-in-national-market/article/3727526)

OKC Council challenges mayor on plans to move electric substation for $30M | News OK (http://newsok.com/okc-council-challenges-mayor-on-plans-to-move-electric-substation-for-30m/article/3560204)

Bad Information on $30 Million Core to Shore Acquisition? | News OK (http://newsok.com/bad-information-on-30-million-core-to-shore-acquisition/article/3838257)

When History Doesn't Match Up with Politics? | News OK (http://newsok.com/when-history-doesnt-match-up-with-politics/article/3838259)


Wambo, you amuse me. I hope you enjoyed reading these stories that were negative on MAPS 3 and appeared before and after the election. I can't answer for what happened with other reporters. When I was assigned to covering portions of MAPS 3, I covered all sides. And I think the streetcar advocates will tell you I've not done fluff coverage of their favorite MAPS 3 project. Yes, I'm the champion of truth and all, regardless of who it might upset.
N/M - stick with the topic, Wambo, or you're just trying to sidetrack the conversation and divert attention from the topic at hand.

Oh, by the way, I took a lot of heat from police command when I did this in-depth investigation on the behalf of the men and women in uniform out on the streets. Wambo, you don't know me at all....

[B]Police Cars Run Up Big Repair Bills

By Steve Lackmeyer
Sunday, August 18, 1996
Edition: CITY, Section: NEWS, Page 01
Copyright 1996, The Oklahoman
Linked Objects: (Click image for details)
BIOG:

NAME:

UPD: 19 -TEXT-

After spending $93,587 to keep an old police car patrolling the streets, what's another $2,600 to replace its engine?

That seems to be the logic behind a stack of bills that has mounted over the last eight years to operate Oklahoma City police car No. 8813115 through its current 274,000-mile odometer reading.

The Oklahoman found that police car Thursday - parked in a local dealership's garage, where a mechanic was ready to install a new engine.

Another car, according to city maintenance records, racked up almost $96,000 in bills before it was retired five months ago with nearly 300,000 miles.

At least one-third of the remaining fleet of 602 cars are now beyond their economic or useful life; it's not unusual among these cars to see repair and operating costs topping $50,000 - and counting.

Capt. Ted Carlton, police spokesman, admits the aging fleet is a problem.

"They are not as safe as they should be," he said. "It's not cost-effective; but we do not have any money to replace these cars."

Eight out of 10 cities surveyed by the American Fleet Managers Association reported average mileage per police car as 69,000 miles or less.

The average mileage for Oklahoma City's police fleet is just under 100,000 miles. A computer analysis by The Oklahoman shows 303 police vehicles have logged more than 100,000 miles; 85 cars have more than 150,000 miles; and 12 cars have more than 200,000 miles. Hard Miles

Until he was contacted by a reporter, officer Mike Williams didn't know repair and fuel bills on his police cruiser topped $93,000. Despite the frequency of repairs - it has been in the shop nearly every two weeks for maintenance or repairs since 1992 - Williams, the cruiser's primary driver since early 1993, says the vehicle isn't the worst in the fleet.

"I drove it daily till the engine blew up in June," Williams said. "It ran pretty good, considering its age."

Williams said the car, which was originally purchased for $12,250, usually broke down as he cleared off of a call.

"If there's something wrong, then it was my responsibility to take it down (to the garage) and get it fixed," Williams said. "They've kept it up pretty well."

Williams said officers try to drive the vehicle at night because of a malfunctioning air conditioner - the garage has spent at least $2,424 to keep that part working. But he isn't too worried about the car's safety.

"It probably isn't as safe as a new car," Williams said. "Everybody would rather drive a new car - but that's not going to happen."

Williams' vehicle has been stranded at least 16 times since it went into service in July 1988. Two months after the car hit the streets, the vehicle's front end was smashed in a collision. Repairs cost $5,500.

Another $5,500 has been spent in the last three years on the transmission. In September 1993, mechanics rebuilt the transmission for about $1,300. Eight months later, that same transmission was replaced for a cost of $1,175.

The new transmission lasted another 14,000 miles, then city mechanics rebuilt it for about $1,600. The transmission was again replaced in February at a cost of $1,511.

Patrol cars are driven much harder than the average car. Some mechanical experts point out that a patrol car is often driven for two or three 10-hour shifts at a time. They stop and start a lot, which is hard on a battery and starter.

Patrol cars often idle for long periods while officers interview suspects or write reports, which adds time, but not mileage, to a car's life.

Officers are also required to drive down bad roads and in all kinds of weather, both of which can age a car faster. Hitting curbs on turns, slamming into ditches and potholes - that's all part of the job.

Yet Fraternal Order of Police President P.D. Taylor claimed that officers have a tough time getting timely repairs.

"It's not unusual to be down six weeks while we're waiting to get parts in," Taylor said. Rumors and Rumblings

Taylor said fixing old police cars is a way for the city to skim money off the 1989 penny sales tax, which is allotted specifically for police and fire use.

"The reason they like repairing these old vehicles is because they're charging the city three or four times what it costs them to do the repairs," Taylor said. "Why should one department in the city be making a big profit from another department in the city?

"It's always been my opinion that's misuse of this penny sales tax," Taylor said. "We end up paying for the entire maintenance department's budget over there."

Danny Terrell, director of the General Services Department, has heard the rumblings from some officers who claim the city garage's charges are excessive. He and Richard Stehr, fleet manager, say many people do not understand their department's charge-back or enterprise accounting system.

The General Services Department has no budget to perform repairs to the city's fleet. Instead, the department must charge to cover parts, labor and costs of running the garage, Terrell said.

Terrell and Stehr also say they have previously deducted costs from repair bills when the charges exceeded national industry standards.

The garage is not allowed to make a profit, and the idea that they are trying to skim money from the public safety sales tax is ridiculous, Terrell said.

"We are just charging what we need to charge to cover the costs of providing our services," Terrell said.

Police say they did save $458,000 when they stopped buying gas and oil from the garage and awarded a private contract to Total Petroleum last summer.

Police Chief Sam Gonzales, however, does not believe the garage has overcharged for its services.

"Sometimes it seems a little high to us," Gonzales said. "For the lay police officer, the charges seem to be higher than what we can get from private industry. But what they don't realize is they (the city garage) do not get any general fund help."

However, unlike a private business, the city garage does not have to pay taxes.

Gonzales insists the growth of the fleet during the past few years is the main cause of the city's rising costs.

"We actually used to get refunds before the fleet size grew," Gonzales said. "Excellent Shape"

The engine was replaced in officer Williams' cruiser even though it is among the top group of police cars recommended for replacement.

Gonzales said police fleet managers approved the decision to install the new engine.

"By a lot of standards, it may not be considered cost-effective," Gonzales said. "But the options are to take it out of service without being able to replace it, or spend $2,600 for a new engine and use it for another year."

Though ordered in June, the work on replacing the engine did not begin until after July 1 - the start of the police department's 1996-97 fiscal year.

City Fleet Manager Stehr explained how police vehicles are classified into three groups:

- Category A: About 77 percent, or 464, of Oklahoma City's police cruisers are within their economic and useful life. Stehr's garage started billing police 14 cents per mile for all normal repairs (excluding accidents and vehicle abuse) during the current fiscal year.

- Category B: Stehr estimates 107 vehicles, 18 percent of the fleet, are beyond their economic life. The cars can continue to operate with moderate repairs. Major repairs on these cars are not covered by the 14-cent-per-mile billing and must be ordered and paid for from the police budget.

- Category C: About 5 percent of the fleet is beyond its useful life. Repairs are needed to keep these vehicles roadworthy, and replacement is advised by the Equipment Services Division.

In February, Taylor complained to the state Occupational Safety and Health Administration about 22 old patrol cars from the Hefner Division that officers said were unsafe. An investigation was done, but not until the police department had ample warning of the upcoming inspection, Taylor said.

"The officers advised me that every one of these vehicles they were talking about were hustled off to the garage for repairs," said Taylor.

Gonzales said the fleet, despite its age, is safe and was deemed in "excellent shape" by the state inspectors.

Still, Gonzales believes the department needs an annual car replacement program and will meet with city leaders this week to discuss such a plan and its costs.

Gonzales said the city can't be asked to take on the burden of maintaining the police fleet at its current size.

"We're going to have to find a balance," Gonzales said.

Gonzales Wants To Reduce Fleet

By Steve Lackmeyer, Penny Owen
Staff Writers
Sunday, August 18, 1996
Edition: CITY, Section: NEWS, Page 17
BIOG:

NAME:

UPD: 19 -TEXT-

Reducing the number of Oklahoma City police vehicles and take-home cars is among the options facing city officials when they meet this week to confront an aging fleet.

Taxpayers pay $3 million for maintenance and between $600,000 and $1.3 million each year for replacement of police vehicles. And although the upkeep of the fleet ranks just below personnel costs for the force, police do not have any plan or budget to ensure regular replacement of vehicles.

Police Chief Sam Gonzales sees only one solution: cut the fleet to a number that would allow the city to afford a set replacement plan.

"We would like to see replacement every five years for marked cars and every seven years for unmarked cars - that is our goal," Gonzales said.

"But that would cost us $3.5 (million) to $4 million every year, and obviously the city doesn't have that kind of money," Gonzales said.

Gonzales believes the only way to implement his replacement plan is by cutting fleet cars added after voters approved a one-cent public safety sales tax. The tax revenue added hundreds of officers and cars to the force.

"We have an unusually large number of police vehicles," Gonzales said. "That makes it extremely difficult for us to replace them on a regular basis."

Of the fleet's 900 cars, 400 are assigned to the take-home program, which allows officers to drive their cruisers while off-duty. The program, which started in 1987, is popular with officers and neighborhood groups.

"We have a take-home program, but in the last five to 10 years, most police departments have gone through tax reductions that have not allowed them to do this due to costs," Gonzales said.

Gonzales thinks the city may have to cut its take-home program to maintain a safe fleet. Police will discuss possible cuts this week with Assistant City Manager Penny Barclay, Finance Director Glenn Deck and three representatives of the Fraternal Order of Police.

Gonzales believes the city will have to cut 180 cars, or 20 percent of the fleet. And that will require union approval.

"The problem the city has is, to my knowledge, they've never had a replacement program in place," said P.D. Taylor, president of the Oklahoma City Fraternal Order of Police.

"With the size of our department and the size of the budget and the number of vehicles we have, that's ludicrous not to have a replacement program in place," Taylor said.

Taylor agrees with Gonzales' goal: He also wants to negotiate a contractual plan to replace vehicles when they exceed a certain age and mileage.

"Our fleet is really getting almost as bad or as bad as it was prior to the 1989 sales tax passage," Taylor said.

Taylor opposes Gonzales' idea to cut the take-home car program, but said he'll try to keep an open mind.

"You lose the visibility," Taylor said. "Those vehicles are very well maintained by the officers. They take care of them better, they last longer. Another advantage of the take-home car program is the vehicles aren't being driven as much."

Replacing cars is not cheap. The price Oklahoma City pays for a new police cruiser has ballooned from $11,060 in 1985 to $21,453 last year.

The city council approved $1.3 million to replace 70 cars last year, and approximately $1.5 million will be spent during the fiscal year which started July 1.

"A lot depends on the financial situation of the city," Gonzales said. "But the city really hasn't determined yet how much they can afford to put into a replacement program."

I talk to hundreds of people every week that tell me how much they LOVE MAPS. I guess it is just a matter of who you associate with.

A strong majority of voters support MAPS. Those that don't are the exception around here. Ed is about to find out how small of a minority the anti-MAPS people are.

It's unfortunate that he's making so much noise from such a small little group.

If you look back at Steve's coverage of MAPS 3 there are so many ideas and issues that the Mayor and City staff simply got wrong. Not all is fine and dandy on the MAPS 3 homefront. I support Oklahoma City's momentum and growth, but I'm also in favor of accountability, transparency, and inclusivity. What if we build a streetcar that no one rides or a park that cannot be maintained or a convention center without a hotel, all because we didn't invite enough people to the table and did not think things through before we made decisions? That will surely kill the MAPS brand. Questions deserve to be asked without it being labeled obstruction.

I talk to hundreds of people every week that tell me how much they LOVE MAPS. I guess it is just a matter of who you associate with.

My experience as well. Never heard anyone outside of a message board or anti-maps campaign speak ill of it. My friends from Tulsa and other cities envy what we've been able to accomplish with MAPS. Hopefully Mick uses this mess against Ed when we start getting deeper into the campaign. Not a lot coming out of the Cornett campaign yet, hope he has a rally or something soon.

OKC is doing great so we must be doing things right. There is no reason to undo the success that we are now enjoying. Ed is the anti-maps candidate in my opinion.

If you look back at Steve's coverage of MAPS 3 there are so many ideas and issues that the Mayor and City staff simply got wrong. Not all is fine and dandy on the MAPS 3 homefront. I support Oklahoma City's momentum and growth, but I'm also in favor of accountability, transparency, and inclusivity. What if we build a streetcar that no one rides or a park that no one plays in or a convention center without a hotel, all because we didn't invite enough people to the table and did not think things through before we made decisions? Questions deserved to be asked without it being labeled obstruction. That is groupthink.

And the questions were asked 5 YEARS ago. If they weren't asked then, they should've been. A campaign is the time to ask questions about projects that are about to go to a vote, not in the middle of the sales tax collection 4 YEARS later. MAPS 3 has been voted on and approved and it's been that way for 4 YEARS now. Quit crying about it and save those sentiments for the next installments or concentrate your efforts toward making the current projects successful, not trying to void the MAJORITY vote that provided funds for them.

OKC is doing great so we must be doing things right. There is no reason to undo the success that we are now enjoying. Ed is the anti-maps candidate in my opinion.

At this point, I think it's fact.

"If only you were Mayor, Ed Shadid...it seems as if we'd all be better off"

-Said No One Ever

I see what you did there :p

And that right there is the biggest beef I think people are having for Shadid right now. Look, I'm sure as hell not voting for the guy, can't stand him, but If you want to question these things and help prevent them in the future, great, that's fine. But looking backwards and kicking and screaming because you didn't get your way (which doesn't matter because you apparently feel that voting for anything other than yourself is a waste of time) does NOTHING for anyone.

Oklahoma City Criminal Defense Lawyer | David Slane :: Oklahoma City Criminal Defense Lawyer | David Slane (http://david-slane-criminal-defense.com/)

Hmmmm. I don't see constitutional cases on his expertise list. I'm glad to know who I can call to defend me if I'm indicted for racketeering or sex crimes though.

Yeah. I completely disagree with his interpretation of the single subject rule with regard to MAPS 3. MAPS 3 was a vote for a sales tax for capital improvements. I don't see how that deprives the voter of the ability to give a sales tax for capital improvements a straight up or down vote.

If you look back at Steve's coverage of MAPS 3 there are so many ideas and issues that the Mayor and City staff simply got wrong. Not all is fine and dandy on the MAPS 3 homefront. I support Oklahoma City's momentum and growth, but I'm also in favor of accountability, transparency, and inclusivity. What if we build a streetcar that no one rides or a park that cannot be maintained or a convention center without a hotel, all because we didn't invite enough people to the table and did not think things through before we made decisions? That will surely kill the MAPS brand. Questions deserve to be asked without it being labeled obstruction.

Questions and lawsuits are not the same.

What if we get hit by a meteor? What if the global economy melts down or we start WWWIII with Syria?

Some things we cannot control.

To your point, lots of questions have been asked. Hundreds of public meetings have occurred. Public experts have been brought in. This has all happened. Why act like it hasn't?

Is everything in MAPS III going to work perfectly? Doubtful. Was everything in MAPS I perfect? No way. But in the end it was great for this city and I have no doubt that MAPS III will be even more transformative.

But please quit ignoring the obvious: Filing lawsuits to override the will of the voters is not "asking questions." It is astonishingly arrogant and undemocratic.

I was referring to Ed's questions. He is not filing a lawsuit, but was weighing in on the issue.

MAPS 3 Central Park and the Myriad Gardens | News OK (http://newsok.com/maps-3-central-park-and-the-myriad-gardens/article/3838049)

MAPS 3: The Ballot | News OK (http://newsok.com/maps-3-the-ballot/article/3837669)

MAPS 3 convention center site is being questioned | News OK (http://newsok.com/maps-3-convention-center-site-is-being-questioned/article/3712898)

Architectural award goes beyond Oklahoma City's MAPS 3 | News OK (http://newsok.com/architectural-award-goes-beyond-oklahoma-citys-maps-3/article/3745952)

http://npaper-wehaa.com/oklahoma-gazette/2012/11/28/?g=print#?article=1744186

And Yet More Discussion on the Convention Center | News OK (http://newsok.com/and-yet-more-discussion-on-the-convention-center/article/3838721)

Plans move ahead for convention center, hotel despite collapse in national market | News OK (http://newsok.com/plans-move-ahead-for-convention-center-hotel-despite-collapse-in-national-market/article/3727526)

OKC Council challenges mayor on plans to move electric substation for $30M | News OK (http://newsok.com/okc-council-challenges-mayor-on-plans-to-move-electric-substation-for-30m/article/3560204)

Bad Information on $30 Million Core to Shore Acquisition? | News OK (http://newsok.com/bad-information-on-30-million-core-to-shore-acquisition/article/3838257)

When History Doesn't Match Up with Politics? | News OK (http://newsok.com/when-history-doesnt-match-up-with-politics/article/3838259)


Wambo, you amuse me. I hope you enjoyed reading these stories that were negative on MAPS 3 and appeared before and after the election. I can't answer for what happened with other reporters. When I was assigned to covering portions of MAPS 3, I covered all sides. And I think the streetcar advocates will tell you I've not done fluff coverage of their favorite MAPS 3 project. Yes, I'm the champion of truth and all, regardless of who it might upset.
N/M - stick with the topic, Wambo, or you're just trying to sidetrack the conversation and divert attention from the topic at hand.

Oh, by the way, I took a lot of heat from police command when I did this in-depth investigation on the behalf of the men and women in uniform out on the streets. Wambo, you don't know me at all....

[B]Police Cars Run Up Big Repair Bills

By Steve Lackmeyer
Sunday, August 18, 1996
Edition: CITY, Section: NEWS, Page 01
Copyright 1996, The Oklahoman
Linked Objects: (Click image for details)
BIOG:

NAME:

UPD: 19 -TEXT-

After spending $93,587 to keep an old police car patrolling the streets, what's another $2,600 to replace its engine?

That seems to be the logic behind a stack of bills that has mounted over the last eight years to operate Oklahoma City police car No. 8813115 through its current 274,000-mile odometer reading.

The Oklahoman found that police car Thursday - parked in a local dealership's garage, where a mechanic was ready to install a new engine.

Another car, according to city maintenance records, racked up almost $96,000 in bills before it was retired five months ago with nearly 300,000 miles.

At least one-third of the remaining fleet of 602 cars are now beyond their economic or useful life; it's not unusual among these cars to see repair and operating costs topping $50,000 - and counting.

Capt. Ted Carlton, police spokesman, admits the aging fleet is a problem.

"They are not as safe as they should be," he said. "It's not cost-effective; but we do not have any money to replace these cars."

Eight out of 10 cities surveyed by the American Fleet Managers Association reported average mileage per police car as 69,000 miles or less.

The average mileage for Oklahoma City's police fleet is just under 100,000 miles. A computer analysis by The Oklahoman shows 303 police vehicles have logged more than 100,000 miles; 85 cars have more than 150,000 miles; and 12 cars have more than 200,000 miles. Hard Miles

Until he was contacted by a reporter, officer Mike Williams didn't know repair and fuel bills on his police cruiser topped $93,000. Despite the frequency of repairs - it has been in the shop nearly every two weeks for maintenance or repairs since 1992 - Williams, the cruiser's primary driver since early 1993, says the vehicle isn't the worst in the fleet.

"I drove it daily till the engine blew up in June," Williams said. "It ran pretty good, considering its age."

Williams said the car, which was originally purchased for $12,250, usually broke down as he cleared off of a call.

"If there's something wrong, then it was my responsibility to take it down (to the garage) and get it fixed," Williams said. "They've kept it up pretty well."

Williams said officers try to drive the vehicle at night because of a malfunctioning air conditioner - the garage has spent at least $2,424 to keep that part working. But he isn't too worried about the car's safety.

"It probably isn't as safe as a new car," Williams said. "Everybody would rather drive a new car - but that's not going to happen."

Williams' vehicle has been stranded at least 16 times since it went into service in July 1988. Two months after the car hit the streets, the vehicle's front end was smashed in a collision. Repairs cost $5,500.

Another $5,500 has been spent in the last three years on the transmission. In September 1993, mechanics rebuilt the transmission for about $1,300. Eight months later, that same transmission was replaced for a cost of $1,175.

The new transmission lasted another 14,000 miles, then city mechanics rebuilt it for about $1,600. The transmission was again replaced in February at a cost of $1,511.

Patrol cars are driven much harder than the average car. Some mechanical experts point out that a patrol car is often driven for two or three 10-hour shifts at a time. They stop and start a lot, which is hard on a battery and starter.

Patrol cars often idle for long periods while officers interview suspects or write reports, which adds time, but not mileage, to a car's life.

Officers are also required to drive down bad roads and in all kinds of weather, both of which can age a car faster. Hitting curbs on turns, slamming into ditches and potholes - that's all part of the job.

Yet Fraternal Order of Police President P.D. Taylor claimed that officers have a tough time getting timely repairs.

"It's not unusual to be down six weeks while we're waiting to get parts in," Taylor said. Rumors and Rumblings

Taylor said fixing old police cars is a way for the city to skim money off the 1989 penny sales tax, which is allotted specifically for police and fire use.

"The reason they like repairing these old vehicles is because they're charging the city three or four times what it costs them to do the repairs," Taylor said. "Why should one department in the city be making a big profit from another department in the city?

"It's always been my opinion that's misuse of this penny sales tax," Taylor said. "We end up paying for the entire maintenance department's budget over there."

Danny Terrell, director of the General Services Department, has heard the rumblings from some officers who claim the city garage's charges are excessive. He and Richard Stehr, fleet manager, say many people do not understand their department's charge-back or enterprise accounting system.

The General Services Department has no budget to perform repairs to the city's fleet. Instead, the department must charge to cover parts, labor and costs of running the garage, Terrell said.

Terrell and Stehr also say they have previously deducted costs from repair bills when the charges exceeded national industry standards.

The garage is not allowed to make a profit, and the idea that they are trying to skim money from the public safety sales tax is ridiculous, Terrell said.

"We are just charging what we need to charge to cover the costs of providing our services," Terrell said.

Police say they did save $458,000 when they stopped buying gas and oil from the garage and awarded a private contract to Total Petroleum last summer.

Police Chief Sam Gonzales, however, does not believe the garage has overcharged for its services.

"Sometimes it seems a little high to us," Gonzales said. "For the lay police officer, the charges seem to be higher than what we can get from private industry. But what they don't realize is they (the city garage) do not get any general fund help."

However, unlike a private business, the city garage does not have to pay taxes.

Gonzales insists the growth of the fleet during the past few years is the main cause of the city's rising costs.

"We actually used to get refunds before the fleet size grew," Gonzales said. "Excellent Shape"

The engine was replaced in officer Williams' cruiser even though it is among the top group of police cars recommended for replacement.

Gonzales said police fleet managers approved the decision to install the new engine.

"By a lot of standards, it may not be considered cost-effective," Gonzales said. "But the options are to take it out of service without being able to replace it, or spend $2,600 for a new engine and use it for another year."

Though ordered in June, the work on replacing the engine did not begin until after July 1 - the start of the police department's 1996-97 fiscal year.

City Fleet Manager Stehr explained how police vehicles are classified into three groups:

- Category A: About 77 percent, or 464, of Oklahoma City's police cruisers are within their economic and useful life. Stehr's garage started billing police 14 cents per mile for all normal repairs (excluding accidents and vehicle abuse) during the current fiscal year.

- Category B: Stehr estimates 107 vehicles, 18 percent of the fleet, are beyond their economic life. The cars can continue to operate with moderate repairs. Major repairs on these cars are not covered by the 14-cent-per-mile billing and must be ordered and paid for from the police budget.

- Category C: About 5 percent of the fleet is beyond its useful life. Repairs are needed to keep these vehicles roadworthy, and replacement is advised by the Equipment Services Division.

In February, Taylor complained to the state Occupational Safety and Health Administration about 22 old patrol cars from the Hefner Division that officers said were unsafe. An investigation was done, but not until the police department had ample warning of the upcoming inspection, Taylor said.

"The officers advised me that every one of these vehicles they were talking about were hustled off to the garage for repairs," said Taylor.

Gonzales said the fleet, despite its age, is safe and was deemed in "excellent shape" by the state inspectors.

Still, Gonzales believes the department needs an annual car replacement program and will meet with city leaders this week to discuss such a plan and its costs.

Gonzales said the city can't be asked to take on the burden of maintaining the police fleet at its current size.

"We're going to have to find a balance," Gonzales said.

Gonzales Wants To Reduce Fleet

By Steve Lackmeyer, Penny Owen
Staff Writers
Sunday, August 18, 1996
Edition: CITY, Section: NEWS, Page 17
BIOG:

NAME:

UPD: 19 -TEXT-

Reducing the number of Oklahoma City police vehicles and take-home cars is among the options facing city officials when they meet this week to confront an aging fleet.

Taxpayers pay $3 million for maintenance and between $600,000 and $1.3 million each year for replacement of police vehicles. And although the upkeep of the fleet ranks just below personnel costs for the force, police do not have any plan or budget to ensure regular replacement of vehicles.

Police Chief Sam Gonzales sees only one solution: cut the fleet to a number that would allow the city to afford a set replacement plan.

"We would like to see replacement every five years for marked cars and every seven years for unmarked cars - that is our goal," Gonzales said.

"But that would cost us $3.5 (million) to $4 million every year, and obviously the city doesn't have that kind of money," Gonzales said.

Gonzales believes the only way to implement his replacement plan is by cutting fleet cars added after voters approved a one-cent public safety sales tax. The tax revenue added hundreds of officers and cars to the force.

"We have an unusually large number of police vehicles," Gonzales said. "That makes it extremely difficult for us to replace them on a regular basis."

Of the fleet's 900 cars, 400 are assigned to the take-home program, which allows officers to drive their cruisers while off-duty. The program, which started in 1987, is popular with officers and neighborhood groups.

"We have a take-home program, but in the last five to 10 years, most police departments have gone through tax reductions that have not allowed them to do this due to costs," Gonzales said.

Gonzales thinks the city may have to cut its take-home program to maintain a safe fleet. Police will discuss possible cuts this week with Assistant City Manager Penny Barclay, Finance Director Glenn Deck and three representatives of the Fraternal Order of Police.

Gonzales believes the city will have to cut 180 cars, or 20 percent of the fleet. And that will require union approval.

"The problem the city has is, to my knowledge, they've never had a replacement program in place," said P.D. Taylor, president of the Oklahoma City Fraternal Order of Police.

"With the size of our department and the size of the budget and the number of vehicles we have, that's ludicrous not to have a replacement program in place," Taylor said.

Taylor agrees with Gonzales' goal: He also wants to negotiate a contractual plan to replace vehicles when they exceed a certain age and mileage.

"Our fleet is really getting almost as bad or as bad as it was prior to the 1989 sales tax passage," Taylor said.

Taylor opposes Gonzales' idea to cut the take-home car program, but said he'll try to keep an open mind.

"You lose the visibility," Taylor said. "Those vehicles are very well maintained by the officers. They take care of them better, they last longer. Another advantage of the take-home car program is the vehicles aren't being driven as much."

Replacing cars is not cheap. The price Oklahoma City pays for a new police cruiser has ballooned from $11,060 in 1985 to $21,453 last year.

The city council approved $1.3 million to replace 70 cars last year, and approximately $1.5 million will be spent during the fiscal year which started July 1.

"A lot depends on the financial situation of the city," Gonzales said. "But the city really hasn't determined yet how much they can afford to put into a replacement program." Good stuff Steve. Now that you're going to get fully engaged, I look forward to reading the dirt on both sides. I have no opinion on this lawsuit, but I don't see how it helps OKC at all. It's the same stuff that was warned about years ago and no one wanted to hear it.
You're right, I don't know you. It does seem you tend to get quiet when the going gets tough, though. Maybe it's just what you can get past your editor, who knows?

I was referring to Ed's questions. He is not filing a lawsuit, but was weighing in on the issue.

You honestly believe the two are mutually exclusive?

... The majority voted yes, that should've been the end of it.

This sentiment has been expressed in various ways in this thread by several folks.

Majority rules .... frequently yes, but this is not an absolute that is forever unquestionable.
Sometimes, being in the majority simply means one is part of a large group of people whose position is legally wrong.

Please understand in making this point I am not commenting on any possible suit on MAPs. I'm just noting there are numerous instances at local and state levels, here and elsewhere, where the voters said X and it turns out under the law says X just ain't proper.

I was referring to Ed's questions. He is not filing a lawsuit, but was weighing in on the issue.

Steve's post indicates that Ed has a strong connection to this threatened lawsuit. The timing also lines up with his quixotic, meandering diatribe accusing the council of deception on Tuesday. Coincidence? You may be the only person here who believes that. The rest of us know Ed's fingerprints are all over it.

It's fine, though, because I don't think the lawsuit will be successful, and 2) it virtually guarantees that Shadid will be defeated heavily in the election. At this point, Mick Cornett's best campaigner is actually Ed Shadid.

Yeah. I completely disagree with his interpretation of the single subject rule with regard to MAPS 3. MAPS 3 was a vote for a sales tax for capital improvements. I don't see how that deprives the voter of the ability to give a sales tax for capital improvements a straight up or down vote.

Thank you Midtowner J.D. I was waiting for someone who knows more than us about the law to weigh in.

Steve's post indicates that Ed has a strong connection to this threatened lawsuit. The timing also lines up with his quixotic, meandering diatribe accusing the council of deception also. Coincidence? You may be the only person here who believes that. The rest of us know Ed's fingerprints are all over it.

It's fine, though, because I don't think the lawsuit will be successful, and 2) it virtually guarantees that Shadid will be defeated heavily in the election. At this point, Mick Cornett's best campaigner is actually Ed Shadid.

Of course, Shadid is denying any involvement with the letter in the Gazette article. It will be interesting to see if they all keep their story straight.

I was referring to Ed's questions. He is not filing a lawsuit, but was weighing in on the issue.


Good stuff Steve. Now that you're going to get fully engaged, I look forward to reading the dirt on both sides. I have no opinion on this lawsuit, but I don't see how it helps OKC at all. It's the same stuff that was warned about years ago and no one wanted to hear it.
You're right, I don't know you. It does seem you tend to get quiet when the going gets tough, though. Maybe it's just what you can get past your editor, who knows?

If it is in fact unconstitutional, it is just as unconstitutional now as it was then...where were all the attorney's threatening to challenge its constitutionality 4 YEARS AGO?
Why did this guy wait till today to begin to express his concern that the law be upheld?

I was referring to Ed's questions. He is not filing a lawsuit, but was weighing in on the issue.


This sentiment has been expressed in various ways in this thread by several folks.

Majority rules .... frequently yes, but this is not an absolute that is forever unquestionable.
Sometimes, being in the majority simply means one is part of a large group of people whose position is legally wrong.

Please understand in making this point I am not commenting on any possible suit on MAPs. I'm just noting there are numerous instances at local and state levels, here and elsewhere, where the voters said X and it turns out under the law says X just ain't proper.

Kevin, that's all good and well, but why is now the time to bring it up? None of this has been kept secret from anyone over the last 4 years and no new damning evidence has been discovered.

Criticism -- even the constructive variety -- is roundly frowned upon in OKC. Criticism is NOT the same thing as negativity! Often, a critical eye comes from those who want better for the community.

But there doesn't seem any room for this type of discussion, at least not through the traditional channels.

That's not a good thing. Yes, we've come a long way but we are still lightyears behind a lot of other communities. Improvements on what we've had and done in the past does not equate to excellence in any comparative sense.

I love Oklahoma City as much as anyone and yet it hurts me deeply to see the low standards the masses are too often willing to accept. Particularly if those standards are being put forth by someone with good intentions and who is perceived as being "nice".

I agree with this whole heartedly. This is one reason this election is so important and why the city must continue on its current path. Yes, OKC has done a complete 180 from 20 years ago. Those who knew this city back then are often shocked by how far its come. That said, I think OKC still has some ground to cover to catch up with its peer cities. Just take a look at what is happening in places like Omaha and Louisville right now. OKC can't afford to take a pause. If OKC is to be an extraordinary city, it must continue what it has done under Cornett. This city could so easily become a Tulsa or Memphis and simply stagnate economically. For OKC, that would be a much worse scenario being that this city doesn't yet have a rich cultural legacy or geographical attractiveness to fall back on like those cities do. This is definitely a pivotal time for OKC. I will be flabbergasted if Cornett gets ousted.

And just in case some may wonder about the thougths of a non-resident who likes your city ....
I think the vote for a temp. tax to do capital improvements was not an inappropriate vote.
I think the non-binding resolution naming some capital improvement projects was exactly what it was .. a non-binding resolution for some capital improvements.
I think many people of voting age who believe they were specifically voting on sidewalks, a park, a streetcar, etc. believed what they wanted to believe.
I think the OKC council of today, or of tomorrow, or at some future point, could scrap part or all of the non-binding resolution.
I think the voters can decide how they feel about their respective councilperson each time he or she stands for election.
I think each councilperson is well aware that angering he or her electorate can influence challengers and voters alike.

And, I think it is time for a late dinner. See ya.

I don't think you're wrong at all, Kevin. I just happen to think its unethical for a member of city council to ignore the voter's wishes, whether he or she was on the council, whether he or she voted in the election. And yes, if a councilperson feels differently, that will definitely influence how I vote and/or whom I choose to support publicly, whose campaign I might give money to, who I will work for. Every politician who makes controversial decisions has to risk that I am not alone. Their choice, of course.

Kevin, that's all good and well, but why is now the time to bring it up? None of this has been kept secret from anyone over the last 4 years and no new damning evidence has been discovered.

That's an easy one. It's not about maps 3. It's about political power.

This forum is great. Does everybody here know there were major discussions about this at the time it was happening? It's all in the archives! One thing I read was those defending the "They'll do what they say," and it was also clear at the time that the City Council and the Pro-MAPS campaign were definitely making people believe they couldn't list the items project by project because of the "state law." Even then some were saying they were lying and being deceptive.

I don't like Ed's approach on this at all, especially his own campaign material when he ran for council saying we have to finish the MAPS projects, but the shock expressed by Meg Salyer of a "How dare you," nature is pretty disingenuous as well. They DID know.

Not that I think it's best for the city and all of this hullabaloo, but Ed's accusation that they were claiming one thing, knowing it wasn't true, may very well be the case.

Meg was responding to the accusations that the council intentionally tried to deceive the people. Are you suggesting as well that they were?

You know, maybe we're not talking about the same thing. What do you think Ed was saying the council may have been deceiving the voters about?

The ballot said nothing about the MAPS projects. If you were informed, you knew the issue with the ballot and so those voters trusted the city council to use the money as outlined elsewhere. If you were not informed, then if you voted yes, you were giving the city permission to make capital improvements not otherwise specified. So I'm not sure who could claim they were deceived.

Good stuff Steve. Now that you're going to get fully engaged, I look forward to reading the dirt on both sides. I have no opinion on this lawsuit, but I don't see how it helps OKC at all. It's the same stuff that was warned about years ago and no one wanted to hear it.
You're right, I don't know you. It does seem you tend to get quiet when the going gets tough, though. Maybe it's just what you can get past your editor, who knows?

I've been quiet on this site because of a certain member that engages in character assassination and took some serious swipes at my integrity. I'm still limiting my participation, but the urge to pull that darn curtain was just too strong....

The ballot said nothing about the MAPS projects. If you were informed, you knew the issue with the ballot and so those voters trusted the city council to use the money as outlined elsewhere. If you were not informed, then if you voted yes, you were giving the city permission to make capital improvements not otherwise specified. So I'm not sure who could claim they were deceived.

But it was argued as deception back then - on these very forums. How can you spend big money on a campaign saying, "Here's what we intend to do," and then claim that the people should have known they were just voting on the word of group promoting the campaign? Nobody can deny that certain things weren't put before the voters A. B. C. ..... if that's illegal to do on a ballot, it should be illegal to promote such in a campaign.

I'm not saying it was an intentional deception, but I'm saying I can see how reasonable people might come to that conclusion.

Too much demonizing of personalities involved here to admit good people can think differently when presented with the same evidence.

I'm not sure who was arguing deception. We did talk about it being a risk at the time of the vote. I wanted the projects badly enough to take the risk because without doing so we weren't getting them.

When it comes down to it, voters are usually literate. I read the ballot before I voted. I suspect most people did. It was quite obvious there was no mention of any specific projects on it. Voting yes was a bit of a leap of faith, but no one was forced to vote yes. Until a few hours ago, people were definitely getting what those who believed the campaign rhetoric thought they were getting. Ironically, their opportunity to get what they believed/hoped they would get is being threatened by someone who played no part in that "deception" and who didn't even vote. Without Ed's actions the city would fulfill those campaign promises. He is creating the threat he is charging the city with responsibility for.

He is creating the threat he is charging the city with responsibility for.

Ironic isn't it?

And that's why this isn't about representing our (now great) city and it's people.

Its about Ed.

And Ed wants to see our city burn.

Wow...I can't believe Shadid decided to use the nuclear option this early in the race. That's just political suicide. I guess his polling numbers must look pretty bleak. Someone in his campaign should have at least advised him not to help draft the legal demand. That letter is priceless...

" I would prefer to avoid a constitutional challenge if there is a way for the city attorneys and my team of lawyers to work collaboratively to make this resolution and initiative legal."

Whose team of lawyers? Work "collaboratively" together to make the initiative legal? What is that supposed to mean? If the initiative is unconstitutional, it's unconstitutional. You can't simply sit down in a room and somehow "make" it legal. Classic Ed. Sounds like he's trying to force some kind of negotiated settlement by creating a hostage crisis. Something like...

"You either give me more money for buses and police and fire or your precious MAPS 3 gets it".

I heard from a credible source that he has a second line of attack in the works as well. Apparently, he is also trying to line up enough votes on Council to vote down the streetcar route and create a similar hostage situation.

Absolutely nuts. You can't make this stuff up.

"You either give me more money for buses and police and fire or your precious MAPS 3 gets it.

LOL

and you heard right.

This is the kind of "leadership" this city needs to keep moving forward? I think not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vjn63YEQM8

You are incorrect. there were 11 Propositions, voted on separetly

The City of Oklahoma City - 2007 City Bond Election (http://www.okc.gov/bonds2007/)
2007 City Bond Election

PROPOSITION 1 (STREETS) $497,490,000
PROPOSITION 2 (BRIDGES) $19,760,000
PROPOSITION 3 (TRAFFIC CONTROL SYSTEM) $23,590,000
PROPOSITION 4 (DRAINAGE CONTROL SYSTEM) $32,855,000
PROPOSITION 5 (PARKS AND RECREATIONAL FACILITIES) $89,755,000
PROPOSITION 6 (FIRE) $15,000,000
PROPOSITION 7 (POLICE) $41,200,000
PROPOSITION 8 (LIBRARIES) $12,845,000
PROPOSITION 9 (CITY MAINTENANCE FACILITIES) $20,165,000
PROPOSITION 10 (TRANSIT) $7,840,000
PROPOSITION 11 (ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT) $75,000,000

Maybe I wasn't clear. I was stating that I didn't vote on the items seperately as in, yes on prop 1 (streets), no on prop 2 (bridges), etc. You are saying the items were seperated out and listed individually when I voted and that part is true.

This whole thing is just aggravating as hell but it's going to make watching Shadid's meteoric fall that is sure to follow so much better. I still can't get over the fact he went and teamed up with a sex crimes lawyer for this. Comical.

http://www.okc.gov/maps3/maps3resolution.pdf

The ordinance does not look unconstitutional to me, but I have to admit I'm no lawyer. We doctors aren't always so good at understanding ordinances.

Guys, again, the thing that troubles me is that in order to wage this kind of war, you have to have a campaign organization and war chest. We've not had a credible mayoral component in I couldn't tell you how long. Yet here comes this guy Shadid out of (relatively) nowhere with at least enough of an organization to design this attack on MAPS and launch a campaign based on it. Where is his money and organization coming from?

This is frustrating as you can get - it's one thing to disagree on the implementation(s) of MAPS, and I made no bones about my concerns, but this threat of legal attack for what is a nakedly political objective shows an utter disregard for the city. That is, suppose the mayor et al choose not to respond - call the guy's bluff. Is he really going to engage in a protracted legal war to (at least try) have MAPS3 declared unconstitutional?? No matter the damage to the city in the process?? That doesn't even pass the drunken sailor test.

Let's assume, arguendo as the lawyers like to say, that Shadid really had altruistic motives. And, further, suggest that he was really on firm legal ground. But what's the point? You're trying to unring a years-old bell. The practical realities of trying to do so should give even the most distant observer pause to say, "hey, wait a sec, is that the smartest thing to do?" It's like driving at highway speeds and then slamming the transmission into reverse.

I make no pretense that Mayor Cornett is pure as winter snow, but I don't think anyone would challenge his investment and personal hopes for the city. That Shadid is even affiliated with an effort that amounts to a fiscal hostage situation echoes an abject disregard for the city IMHO.

No reason to start a fight when there is no reason. I would have been ready to fight in the 1990's with the Lower Bricktown fiasco. This is just fighting for fighting's sake.

Guys, again, the thing that troubles me is that in order to wage this kind of war, you have to have a campaign organization and war chest. We've not had a credible mayoral component in I couldn't tell you how long. Yet here comes this guy Shadid out of (relatively) nowhere with at least enough of an organization to design this attack on MAPS and launch a campaign based on it. Where is his money and organization coming from?

This is frustrating as you can get - it's one thing to disagree on the implementation(s) of MAPS, and I made no bones about my concerns, but this threat of legal attack for what is a nakedly political objective shows an utter disregard for the city. That is, suppose the mayor et al choose not to respond - call the guy's bluff. Is he really going to engage in a protracted legal war to (at least try) have MAPS3 declared unconstitutional?? No matter the damage to the city in the process?? That doesn't even pass the drunken sailor test.

Let's assume, arguendo as the lawyers like to say, that Shadid really had altruistic motives. And, further, suggest that he was really on firm legal ground. But what's the point? You're trying to unring a years-old bell. The practical realities of trying to do so should give even the most distant observer pause to say, "hey, wait a sec, is that the smartest thing to do?" It's like driving at highway speeds and then slamming the transmission into reverse.

I make no pretense that Mayor Cornett is pure as winter snow, but I don't think anyone would challenge his investment and personal hopes for the city. That Shadid is even affiliated with an effort that amounts to a fiscal hostage situation echoes an abject disregard for the city IMHO.

It's his own money, for the most part...

If you look back at Steve's coverage of MAPS 3 there are so many ideas and issues that the Mayor and City staff simply got wrong. Not all is fine and dandy on the MAPS 3 homefront. I support Oklahoma City's momentum and growth, but I'm also in favor of accountability, transparency, and inclusivity. What if we build a streetcar that no one rides or a park that cannot be maintained or a convention center without a hotel, all because we didn't invite enough people to the table and did not think things through before we made decisions? That will surely kill the MAPS brand. Questions deserve to be asked without it being labeled obstruction.

Is your name Ed Shadid or Debbie Downer? What if we build an arena without an NHL team? What if we build a smaller ballpark? What if we build a canal that goes to nowhere? What if we build a downtown library when we all know that no one uses libraries anymore?

As a long time member of the site, it took this latest Shadid antic to finally have me generate a post. Everything about this guy and his coordinated effort to halt the city's progress for his own political ambitions literally makes me ill. Between he, Slane, Speno and the police and fire unions - this gutter style attempt to turn back what's so clearly been a catalyst for our city's rebirth is in the lowest form. His attempt to paint himself as a guy who will fight the "big, bad cronies that have poisoned MAPS 3" could begin to take traction with an uniformed public. I certainly hope those on this board and others will hold Shadid and Co. feet to the fire on this. They've already shown their willingness to fight dirty, might be time to give back so to speak.

Does anyone here remember Moshe Tal, the guy that wanted to develop land in Bricktown but lost in favor of Randy Hogan? Then he sued the city forever over the issue. Reminds me a lot of Ed Shadid.

Does anyone here remember Moshe Tal, the guy that wanted to develop land in Bricktown but lost in favor of Randy Hogan? Then he sued the city forever over the issue. Reminds me a lot of Ed Shadid.

I was thinking precisely the same thing. Some on the council got some grief for not wanting to work with the guy, but there were constant questions about his own financial sources and whether he could really deliver on what he was promising. Definitely familiar shadows there. As I recall (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this) but I believe the old Ward 5 council Jerry Foshee was chief among Tal's skeptics. There was something about his very nebulous background that was constantly in question that he wouldn't resolve to the council's satisfaction, IIRC.

Yeah, Moshe Tal always claimed that he had foreign investors, but but he could never deliver on revealing who those were.

I wonder what happens to the monies already collected if the MAPS3 vote is declared unconstitutional. Is it even moreso up for grabs?

I wonder what happens to the monies already collected if the MAPS3 vote is declared unconstitutional. Is it even moreso up for grabs?

According to the last MAPS 3 budget report, they've already spent over $23 million.

I wonder what happens to the monies already collected if the MAPS3 vote is declared unconstitutional. Is it even moreso up for grabs?

Won't be declared unconstitutional, as MAPS 3 is a 1 line item.

Is your name Ed Shadid or Debbie Downer? What if we build an arena without an NHL team? What if we build a smaller ballpark? What if we build a canal that goes to nowhere? What if we build a downtown library when we all know that no one uses libraries anymore?

We built these facilities (arena, ballpark, canal, library) and they get plenty of use. The downtown library gets use as does all the metropolitan libraries within the system. There are times when my computer was down and I was greatful the libraries had computers available for free use instead of going to a place that temporarily rents ($18 hour/.30 minute) for the use of a computer.


What is Ed Shadid's agenda? As Shadid talks, the more he reveals about himself. Is his agenda to kill MAPS(?); if so, why?


Yeah, Moshe Tal always claimed that he had foreign investors, but he could never deliver on revealing who those were.

Patrick, wasn't this the guy who borrowed money from Denver banks to fight Oklahoma City and eventually lost his Rock Climbing structure?

And just in case some may wonder about the thougths of a non-resident who likes your city ....
I think the vote for a temp. tax to do capital improvements was not an inappropriate vote.
I think the non-binding resolution naming some capital improvement projects was exactly what it was .. a non-binding resolution for some capital improvements.
I think many people of voting age who believe they were specifically voting on sidewalks, a park, a streetcar, etc. believed what they wanted to believe.
I think the OKC council of today, or of tomorrow, or at some future point, could scrap part or all of the non-binding resolution.
I think the voters can decide how they feel about their respective councilperson each time he or she stands for election.
I think each councilperson is well aware that angering he or her electorate can influence challengers and voters alike.

And, I think it is time for a late dinner. See ya.

"Every act of the Legislature shall embrace but one subject, which shall be clearly expressed in its title, except general appropriation bills, general revenue bills, and bills adopting a code, digest, or revision of statutes; and no law shall be revived, amended, or the provisions thereof extended or conferred, by reference to its title only; but so much thereof as is revived, amended, extended, or conferred shall be re-enacted and published at length: Provided, That if any subject be embraced in any act contrary to the provisions of this section, such act shall be void only as to so much of the laws as may not be expressed in the title thereof." Okla. Const. art. V, § 57

The purposes of the single subject rule, which limits legislative acts to a single subject, are: (1) to ensure that the legislators or voters of Oklahoma are adequately notified of the potential effect of the legislation, and (2) to prevent “logrolling,” the practice of assuring the passage of a law by creating one choice in which a legislator or voter is forced to assent to an unfavorable provision to secure passage of a favorable one, or conversely, forced to vote against a favorable provision to ensure that an unfavorable provision is not enacted. Const. Nova Health Sys. v. Edmondson, 2010 OK 21, 233 P.3d 380.

The ballot:

MAPS 3: The Ballot | News OK (http://newsok.com/maps-3-the-ballot/article/3837669)

Contains but a single subject. It states a 1% tax will be raised. That the revenues will go to capital improvements and that there'll be a review board to review those improvements. It doesn't enumerate any of the improvements. I don't see any second subject there. The bill does one thing. Including the oversight committee is not quite the same as logrolling because it's germane to the legislation. If you Google "Maps 3 Ballot," you'll find plenty of discussion as to what the ballot meant and what not specifying projects would allow the Council to do.

"The most relevant question under the germaneness test, as applied to a challenge to legislation under single-subject rule of state constitution, is whether a voter, or legislator, is able to make a choice without being misled and is not forced to choose between two unrelated provisions contained in one measure; the question is not how similar two provisions in a proposed law are, but whether it appears that the proposal is misleading or that the provisions in the proposal are so unrelated that those voting on the law would be faced with an all-or-nothing choice." Douglas v. Cox Ret. Properties, Inc., 2013 OK 37, 302 P.3d 789

Including an oversight board, especially one with very limited powers compared to the Council does not mislead and it does not force the voters to choose between two unrelated provisions. There is no case here and absent an expedited process, this would be tied up in the courts for a long time before the Supreme Court would have anything to say about it. I have no doubt a lawsuit will be filed. I have great doubt that the Plaintiffs would prevail.

Think about it--if Jerry Fent hasn't filed something, you can bet it's constitutional.

http://www.okc.gov/maps3/maps3resolution.pdfWe doctors aren't always so good at understanding ordinances.

In my experience, doctors understand the law about as well as lawyers understand the human body.

Is this an attempt by Shadid to get a ruling understood that MAPS3 was for a single purpose...capital improvements, thus giving him fuel to pull money away from projects and/or trying to eliminate certain projects?

Basically a backwards way of getting an answer to his argument by putting up a fight that gives him the answer he really wants?

Who knows with this guy. I just signed up to volunteer with Mick's campaign.

Patrick, wasn't this the guy who borrowed money from Denver banks to fight Oklahoma City and eventually lost his Rock Climbing structure?

Yes

In my experience, doctors understand the law about as well as lawyers understand the human body.

Exactly why I have retained a good attorney to handle all of my legal affairs.

Is this an attempt by Shadid to get a ruling understood that MAPS3 was for a single purpose...capital improvements, thus giving him fuel to pull money away from projects and/or trying to eliminate certain projects?

Basically a backwards way of getting an answer to his argument by putting up a fight that gives him the answer he really wants?

Who knows with this guy. I just signed up to volunteer with Mick's campaign.

No. The outcome of such a vote would be to eliminate the MAPS tax altogether.

Police and fire better think it through. One could just as easily argue that some future 1% tax for police or fire (definitely not and!) would violate the single subject rule. I'm guessing the argument which will be made is that such an appropriation of funding for what will certainly be more than one project violates the single subject rule. It takes the doctrine a step further than it's ever been applied.

What is being threatened here is pretty appalling though--if we won't change MAPS to suit the needs of the people who overwhelmingly lost the election, they'll try to blow it up entirely.

What appalls me is the part of the letter that says "we don't want a legal battle to ensue, so to prevent that, if you don't make changes (that we want, using our legal services), we'll create a legal battle". This smacks of mob level extortion practices.

As a long time member of the site, it took this latest Shadid antic to finally have me generate a post.

Same as LRSooner for me. Long-time lurker, first-time poster. The more that Shadid talks, the crazier this all gets, and the more worrisome. One of our strengths as a community has been our ability to come together to get big things accomplished. Contrast that to Tulsa. That's what I don't think these guys understand about MAPS - the reason why it works as an economic development engine and quality of life asset lies in its multiplicity. Basically, we should do all of it, all the projects, to maximize the effect and attract private investment. At best, the rancor being introduced doesn't bode well for future endeavors, in my opinion. (I would prefer not to think about what "at worst" might entail.) Thanks a lot Shadid, Speno and Slane. Very angry...

How would this affect the one-eighth permanent sales tax we approved for funding the Oklahoma City Zoo?

They have been receiving this money for years. If I were Shadid, I wouldn't go anywhere near the Oklahoma City Zoo. Those animals are not going to like someone messing with their source of income...



Oklahoma City councilman questions dedicated zoo funding July 2, 2012:

"At least one Oklahoma City councilman thinks it's time to study whether sales tax money currently routed to the zoo should instead go to public safety or street improvemements. Ward 2 Councilman Ed Shadid brought up the zoo's funding at a council meeting in June during a discussion of what to do with a projected surplus of $1.5 million in the new fiscal year, which began Sunday. The council, which still has not made a decision, debated using the money to hire new police officers, fix more streets or add Sunday bus service, among other options."


Oklahoma City councilman questions dedicated zoo funding | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-councilman-questions-dedicated-zoo-funding/article/3689227)

This deal with Shadid is nothing new; so you can imagine what's to come.