A friend and I were discussing which suburb in Oklahoma City has the toughest police department. The obvious came up, Moore or Edmond. We both agree Moore by far has the worst, but Edmond is not to far behind on "drivers beware". Both Moore and Edmond are two suburbs you better be alert and flat out don't drive to late at night in either one. I personally have been pulled over more in Edmond and Moore than any other place around. So Okc Talk nation whats your 2 cents on the matter? Any other suburbs need a "driver beware" sign before you enter...............

Arcadia, hands down...got a ticket there one time and forgot to pay it, luckily I noticed it the same day as the court date.....rushed out there and when I pulled up to the courthouse there had to be 300 people standing there trying to get inside.

Nichols Hills and Warr Acres are two you have to consider. The Village at one time, but things have changed.

I live in Moore and I've never been pulled over here.... Never been pulled over in Edmond either.... Maybe you look more suspicious than I do.

Really? No mention of Norman?

I've never driven through it, but I hear the Valley Brook PD has a pretty bad rep.

I had an Arcadia police officer follow me on old 66 all the way from the center of town nearly to the dam early one morning, before dawn, with his lights on. I didn't see him because my rear view mirror was defective. When I finally pulled over, he was gracious and polite and just gave me a warning for going about four miles over the limit through town. He said that he was beginning to think he'd have to call Edmond for assistance in setting up a roadblock to end this low speed chase.

That never would have happened in Forest Park or Luther.

Ok.....besides Moore, Norman, and Edmond...everyone else on here is naming lil small police departments that, YES, are going to pull you over for minor violations to try to earn money off of you for their small cities within cities. All I have to say is, if you know a ton of police officers, just don't name drop.

Of the west side suburbs; Bethany seemed to always stand out from all the others for quickness to give tickets (least likely to give warnings), variety of violations cited and most irritating while talking to them.

Of the west side suburbs; Bethany seemed to always stand out from all the others for quickness to give tickets (least likely to give warnings), variety of violations cited and most irritating while talking to them.

They are the biggest of the littlests. Who else their size has a city hall?

They are the biggest of the littlests. Who else their size has a city hall?

All of them, they are like a quarter of Edmond's or Norman's population. It seems like if a city has only a few dozen people then they will probably have a city hall.

I realize that this answer is a bit esoteric, but I challenge anyone to find a more anal (and more inept) law enforcement force in the OKC metro than the group that patrols Tinker AFB (or any other air base, for that matter). But luckily, the SF are stuck issuing mostly Playskool tickets that anyone can purchase from Toys "R" Us (DD Form 1408), which are strictly administrative toilet paper. They can write 1805s (with reasonable fines), but they seldom do.

I realize that Tinker isn't really what the original poster had in mind, but that group is in the metro, and it easily takes the cake. Anyone who has driven on base will testify to that.

Really? No mention of Norman?

All in all, not so bad. I rarely interact with them as a motorist. In recent years, when I've had motorist contact it's been limited to seat belt citations (plus a warning here or there about my slightly overweight right toe.)

Of the west side suburbs; Bethany seemed to always stand out from all the others for quickness to give tickets (least likely to give warnings), variety of violations cited and most irritating while talking to them.

Ding ding we have a winner. (Could be that I live nearby and deal with them on occasion...always seatbelt issues since I loathe to wear them.)

On the plus side, when I actually lived in Bethany many years ago, they had super fast response time compared to what I have now from OKC living a few blocks away from Bethany.

All in all, not so bad. I rarely interact with them as a motorist. In recent years, when I've had motorist contact it's been limited to seat belt citations (plus a warning here or there about my slightly overweight right toe.)

Maybe they are changing. Honestly, me personally and everyone I know have had a bad experience with them. Very unprofessional and heavy-handed. And I am not some "rage against the machine" type that hates cops.

Oh, and I would second Valley Brook and Bethany. I really do not understand how either of these towns are existing right now.

I've never driven through it, but I hear the Valley Brook PD has a pretty bad rep.

Not for pulling over drivers..

I got pulled over once in Nichols Hills simply for driving aimlessly in a pickup. My (now ex) wife and I lived on the edge of NH for most of the nineties & early part of the aughts. We were considering moving deeper into the neighborhood and into a bigger place, so decided to drive through the same streets we often biked and walked, looking for for-sale signs.

Cruising around in the truck I had at the time (a brand new F-150 super crew Lariat 4x4, NOT a beater), not five minutes into the drive we picked up a black-and-white tail. Within another minute or two we were pulled over. The "can we help you..?" greeting was pretty thick with intimidation. I played somewhere between oblivious and sarcastic, said we were looking for a house and asked if they could direct us to any.

I know WHY we looked suspicious to them (a pickup driving aimlessly in a wealthy neighborhood COULD be casing an area, looking for a quick opportunity to grab goods and throw them into the back), but the stop and the way it was handled was frustrating.

I've never driven through it, but I hear the Valley Brook PD has a pretty bad rep. Within the LEO community Valley Brook and Forest Park are considered the worst dregs in the region.

I had to run into Edmond one night around 1AM to drop a payment off for my office after being out of town all day. I was doing the speed limit and had a Edmond cop pull me over. There were two officers and one of them approached the car and said I had a tail light out. They asked for my ID and insurance and I handed them over knowing I had nothing to worry about. They came back and I could tell something was up right away. One of the officers had his holster unhooked and hand on his weapon and the other one told me to get out of the car. I got out and they proceeded to handcuff me and told me that I had a warrant out for my arrest. They put me in the back of the police car (a tight fit at 6'3") and one officer looked through my car with his flashlight while the other was on the computer and phone talking to OKC police. I sat in the back of that police car for close to an hour while they attempted to find this warrant. I finally heard the call come over the radio that there was no warrant to be found. The cops let me out and told me that I was lucky that they didn't find the warrant. I drove off and they followed me for a few minutes and then turned around and left me alone. I pulled over in the next parking lot to check and sure enough there was no bad tail light. I was not a happy camper that night.

I had to run into Edmond one night around 1AM to drop a payment off for my office after being out of town all day. I was doing the speed limit and had a Edmond cop pull me over. There were two officers and one of them approached the car and said I had a tail light out. They asked for my ID and insurance and I handed them over knowing I had nothing to worry about. They came back and I could tell something was up right away. One of the officers had his holster unhooked and hand on his weapon and the other one told me to get out of the car. I got out and they proceeded to handcuff me and told me that I had a warrant out for my arrest. They put me in the back of the police car (a tight fit at 6'3") and one officer looked through my car with his flashlight while the other was on the computer and phone talking to OKC police. I sat in the back of that police car for close to an hour while they attempted to find this warrant. I finally heard the call come over the radio that there was no warrant to be found. The cops let me out and told me that I was lucky that they didn't find the warrant. I drove off and they followed me for a few minutes and then turned around and left me alone. I pulled over in the next parking lot to check and sure enough there was no bad tail light. I was not a happy camper that night.

Where do I begin? First, I hope you did not give consent to the search of your vehicle. You said he searched your car with a flashlight. That's legal as long as he's outside of your car and looking in. The second he opens a door and begins to actively search inside for anything that cannot be seen from the outside (that might have given him probable cause) he has violated the law and you should be saying, clearly and directly, that you do not consent to a search.

Obviously, there was no warrant or you would have been arrested. But here's the thing, they cannot pull you over on a false complaint, a phony traffic violation in your case, and then begin a fishing expedition. Is there more to this story than you shared? Because there are so many violations by the officers in your story that it's just crazy.

They kept you for almost an hour? The rule-of-thumb is based on a SCOTUS ruling that mentioned "15-20 minutes" as being a reasonable amount of time to detain an individual for a traffic stop. All police officers know this. Anything beyond that and they're violating your civil rights. But the catch is, and this is extremely important, that you must ask "Am I free to leave?" "Am I free to go?" Those words legally freeze an officer, they must free you and let you go on your way or they must arrest you or they must be within the 15-20 minute window and pursuing an investigation with probable cause. Beyond that and it's an illegal detention.

If your story, as posted here, happened truly as you wrote, you should have been at EPD headquarters the next morning. A one-hour traffic detention is illegal, the search was illegal, pulling you over lying about your tail light was illegal, one piled on top of another.

There are a lot of good officers in the metro, truly a lot, but there are rogue cops who think they can hide behind the internal code of silence and failing that, the FOP, and are literally walking time bombs. This has unfortunately become worse with the influx of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans choosing law enforcement as a career for all the wrong reasons. I'm not talking all I/A vets, but many that seek employment with LEAs are dealing with issues and the need to control, they end up treating citizens the way they were trained to treat hostile forces. Too often they bring a lot of control issues and a need for power and strength and feel that simple patrol is boring. However, some of the best officers come from the same background and do well, but unfortunately it's more often the former.

Supervisors, generally, won't stand for what you went through. Though even some rogues manage to rise through the ranks, but honestly they're rare. Anybody subjected to what you went through for an hour, should ALWAYS let the top brass know. You will almost always find they are glad to hear and learn of these situations and will take it up with the officers involved. A story like yours in isolation doesn't mean much if there's no proof, but when they begin to add up, the superiors know they've got a bad cop. They'll watch them like a hawk. Again, generally and in most cases.

One other thing, and this really goes for everybody, if you have a smartphone, be smart and download a quick "one tap" recording app (audio) and always have it rolling when you're in a police encounter of any kind. There's several now that can upload to your Dropbox account as you record and keep any recordings safe from erasure, confiscation or whatever could happen.

Thanks for your post, interesting!

What about the Chesapeake Rent-a-cops? They like following you around in their bigass SUVs.

Zoo - one quick point: the OP said he was advised by the officers there was a warrant for his arrest. If they were in fact advised of that and had a good faith belief, they wouldn't need consent to look in the car, nor would the length of his detention been unreasonable. I think he did the right thing - as long as the officers aren't being abusive, I would be polite, keep my mouth shut, and let it all get cleared up. If it went poorly, I would take it up with the chief - not the cop on the street. Once you start debating the law with an officer on the street, there is a good chance they spot you as a complainer and spend the extra effort to be sure their reports describe things in their favor. Your best bet is for the officer to think you are just Joe Blow, handle the stop, and move on to the next.

SCOTUS has NEVER set a Bright Line in the sand for the duration of a traffic stop. What they have said is that once the stop is made officer(s) must make all due diligence to confirm or dispel their suspicions as quickly as possible. As far as saying anything beyond 15-20 minutes is an illegal detention is wrong. Once a driver is arrested a routine custodial inventory of the vehicle will take place prior to impound. This is NOT A SEARCH but an inventory that is allowed by law to determine what valuables are in the vehicl and to protect the driver, wrecker company, officer(s). What happens to the vehicle when the driver is arrested is at the sole discretion of the officer(s) depending upon their policies and procedures. The drivers wishes are rarely if ever considered.

Agree with positano on the proper handling of the situation.

I have to respectfully disagree with positano and MustangGT.

We all know the departments around here play fast and loose with the constitution, but the answer to that is not to ask and expect the citizens to become sheeple and say they "handled it right" by just allowing this fishing expedition without a single question.

1. I never said to take it up with the cop on the street, unless you call the citizen asking if he's free to go, or not consenting to a search, as doing something wrong. I know most people allow their rights to be trampled on in any encounter with police. Especially, and I'll just say it, in certain departments like MWC/DC (and some others) that have little respect for the rule of law when it comes to the rights of citizens.

2. I never said a search wasn't legal after an arrest. The poster was not under arrest.

3. Yes, the investigation during a traffic stop, into an outstanding warrant or anything else not connected to the traffic stop should be conducted within 20 minutes. I'm not saying it doesn't happen all the time, but it should not go by without the question, "Am I Free To Go??" I understand that a lot of unprofessional officers in unprofessional departments will let a citizen actually knowing their rights, and asserting them, to somehow rile an officer up. That's the officers problem, not the educated citizens.

Saying he handled it right by being a quiet pawn during the encounter that took one hour to resolve is not right. You might think the law offers that kind of inconvenience to a citizen, and be alright with it because around here many don't know what's legal or illegal, right or wrong. You can't possibly believe that the stop, as described by the poster, was handled properly and legally. Again, it sounded like the EPD officers searched the car without consent and before any arrest. They detained him on a false traffic stop in the first place. The fishing expedition took way too long. He stayed quiet on the search and the length of time he was detained, so he "handled it properly." I agree many officers might think like that, but that's what's wrong.

If you're a cop, Mustang, you didn't swear an oath to be comfortable and never be challenged by educated citizens. If you get riled when a citizen knows his rights, you're in the wrong job.

I have to respectfully disagree with positano and MustangGT.

We all know the departments around here play fast and loose with the constitution, but the answer to that is not to ask and expect the citizens to become sheeple and say they "handled it right" by just allowing this fishing expedition without a single question.

1. I never said to take it up with the cop on the street, unless you call the citizen asking if he's free to go, or not consenting to a search, as doing something wrong. I know most people allow their rights to be trampled on in any encounter with police. Especially, and I'll just say it, in certain departments like MWC/DC (and some others) that have little respect for the rule of law when it comes to the rights of citizens.

2. I never said a search wasn't legal after an arrest. The poster was not under arrest.

3. Yes, the investigation during a traffic stop, into an outstanding warrant or anything else not connected to the traffic stop should be conducted within 20 minutes. I'm not saying it doesn't happen all the time, but it should not go by without the question, "Am I Free To Go??" I understand that a lot of unprofessional officers in unprofessional departments will let a citizen actually knowing their rights, and asserting them, to somehow rile an officer up. That's the officers problem, not the educated citizens.

Saying he handled it right by being a quiet pawn during the encounter that took one hour to resolve is not right. You might think the law offers that kind of inconvenience to a citizen, and be alright with it because around here many don't know what's legal or illegal, right or wrong. You can't possibly believe that the stop, as described by the poster, was handled properly and legally. Again, it sounded like the EPD officers searched the car without consent and before any arrest. They detained him on a false traffic stop in the first place. The fishing expedition took way too long. He stayed quiet on the search and the length of time he was detained, so he "handled it properly." I agree many officers might think like that, but that's what's wrong.

If you're a cop, Mustang, you didn't swear an oath to be comfortable and never be challenged by educated citizens. If you get riled when a citizen knows his rights, you're in the wrong job.

We'll have to agree to disagree, but i've got twenty years in the courtroom with cases from that exact scenario. And Mustang's analysis was sound (and more eloquent than mine). We can debate the next 3 pages about the difference between an inventory and a search, or custody and arrest, but that's a different thread.

I'm not arguing what is right or wrong - just what's practical. Go ahead and ask a cop as often as you feel like "Am I free to go?". I'll be home sooner.

I'm not at all trying to pick a fight Zoo, or suggest folks need to be complacent in having their rights trampled, I would just recommend picking battles and venues very carefully.

Hey positano, Thanks for that post. You are absolutely right about being able to go three pages on all of this and that would just get us warmed up.

You mentioned the judiciary and that's something I was going to mention before but didn't. Ultimately, the jurisdictions play out these scenarios in so many different ways. I have a real good friend who was an officer here in Oklahoma City who moved to Madison, WI so his wife could pursue some specialized degree program. He's been there over 10 years now, but when he first was hired at the Madison PD it was a whole new learning curve. He said 75% of the stuff officers get away with in Oklahoma wouldn't last a week in Madison. That all goes back to the highly educated citizenry and a completely, he said dramatically, different judiciary. The judges are very strict, most either being ACLU type judges or Ron Paul type judges. Liberty & Justice play equal roles and all that filters down to the cop on the streets and what they can and can't expect in the courtroom. He says it's dramatically different, but mutually respected. Same thing in Oklahoma, just different interpretations of the same laws, rulings, etc. and Oklahoma judges are simply very loose and prosecution friendly with the DA and local LEAs. So many variables and that's why I appreciated your post. Sometimes it's best to agree to disagree and move on.

Hey positano, Thanks for that post. You are absolutely right about being able to go three pages on all of this and that would just get us warmed up.

You mentioned the judiciary and that's something I was going to mention before but didn't. Ultimately, the jurisdictions play out these scenarios in so many different ways. I have a real good friend who was an officer here in Oklahoma City who moved to Madison, WI so his wife could pursue some specialized degree program. He's been there over 10 years now, but when he first was hired at the Madison PD it was a whole new learning curve. He said 75% of the stuff officers get away with in Oklahoma wouldn't last a week in Madison. That all goes back to the highly educated citizenry and a completely, he said dramatically, different judiciary. The judges are very strict, most either being ACLU type judges or Ron Paul type judges. Liberty & Justice play equal roles and all that filters down to the cop on the streets and what they can and can't expect in the courtroom. He says it's dramatically different, but mutually respected. Same thing in Oklahoma, just different interpretations of the same laws, rulings, etc. and Oklahoma judges are simply very loose and prosecution friendly with the DA and local LEAs. So many variables and that's why I appreciated your post. Sometimes it's best to agree to disagree and move on.

Absolutely right. Every jurisdiction is different. Thanks for the civil disagreement. I don't post very often because of how caustic it can get around here. Refreshing.

I used to live in Edmond so it makes sense to be pulled over there more often. But I must say whenever I tell people the only citation I have ever received, is for window tint; everyone wants to know where that was.

That's right, Edmond. I was pulled over FOR the tint. Not in addition to a moving violation or anything. It was a Friday morning and I was headed to work.

I agree with others in this thread, late night driving in Edmond is the first step to wanting to speak to an officer. I have been profiled many times for my vehicle and if you add the late night aspect, it is basically entrapment regardless of your driving behavior. Last month I was departing from Buffalo Wild Wings near Kelley/Danforth around 11pm or so on a weeknight. I was followed by an Edmond LEO all the way to Broadway Ext/122nd. He probably assumed I was trying to get out of Edmond limits to avoid him, but I was actually just traveling my normal route back to OKC. He peeled off last minute to make the 122nd exit and crossed 3 lanes with no signal to do such. I really respect the officers I see that actually obey traffic laws. I know the first moment I would go to switch lanes without a signal that night, he would have me grilling on the hood of his patrol car in about a minute.



Let me echo zookeeper, and say to never let your constitutional rights be violated. It is sickening how many people are unaware of their rights and actually fear officers.

I've been driving in Edmond (lived here all but 4 of those years) since 1996. I've been pulled over 3 times, with ZERO tickets. I speed VIRTUALLY EVERY TIME I DRIVE. Many times 10+ over. If you are getting pulled over and often, then YOU are an idiot and probably deserve it. People just love to bash "snobby" Edmondites, Edmond traffice lights (which are FAR better than many parts of the Metro), and Edmond cops. Jealous haters.

I used to live in Edmond so it makes sense to be pulled over there more often. But I must say whenever I tell people the only citation I have ever received, is for window tint; everyone wants to know where that was.

That's right, Edmond. I was pulled over FOR the tint. Not in addition to a moving violation or anything. It was a Friday morning and I was headed to work.

I agree with others in this thread, late night driving in Edmond is the first step to wanting to speak to an officer. I have been profiled many times for my vehicle and if you add the late night aspect, it is basically entrapment regardless of your driving behavior. Last month I was departing from Buffalo Wild Wings near Kelley/Danforth around 11pm or so on a weeknight. I was followed by an Edmond LEO all the way to Broadway Ext/122nd. He probably assumed I was trying to get out of Edmond limits to avoid him, but I was actually just traveling my normal route back to OKC. He peeled off last minute to make the 122nd exit and crossed 3 lanes with no signal to do such. I really respect the officers I see that actually obey traffic laws. I know the first moment I would go to switch lanes without a signal that night, he would have me grilling on the hood of his patrol car in about a minute.



Let me echo zookeeper, and say to never let your constitutional rights be violated. It is sickening how many people are unaware of their rights and actually fear officers.

Lol, ripping Edmond cops because they would dare pull you over for BREAKING THE LAW.

Lol, ripping Edmond cops because they would dare pull you over for BREAKING THE LAW.

What? Who is ripping Edmond cops? The story I told was of an officer following me, "waiting" for me to break a law. But I obeyed laws and traveled on my way - once he followed me out of Edmond, HE broke the law by crossing 3 lanes to make an exit with no signal. My point was on that of hypocrisy.


Being pulled over a lot does not mean you're an idiot. Until you have been profiled multiple times, you don't really have a dog in this fight. Just because you have not been harassed does not mean it doesn't happen. I am only participating in a discussion about being jarred around by certain police departments more than others.

I've been driving in Edmond (lived here all but 4 of those years) since 1996. I've been pulled over 3 times, with ZERO tickets. I speed VIRTUALLY EVERY TIME I DRIVE. Many times 10+ over. If you are getting pulled over and often, then YOU are an idiot and probably deserve it. People just love to bash "snobby" Edmondites, Edmond traffice lights (which are FAR better than many parts of the Metro), and Edmond cops. Jealous haters.I agree. I'm a very fast driver and I speed all the time, about 5-15 over on the roads, depending on the scenario(I don't speed in school zones or in residential neighborhoods) and about 15-25 over on the highway and I hardly ever get pulled over. It's called a blinder and a watchful eye. Also, when I do get pulled over, I don't say anything at all, and I usually get warning. Edmond cops are actually some of the most lenient cops I've seen. OKC in general has pretty lenient police officers.

The only time I've ever gotten really into it with an officer is when one threw a drink at me on the Venice Beach trail in L.A. and I don't let people push me around -esp. police who work, bought, and are paid for from the people(which I'm part of)- so I responded but I won't even go into to that. Just know, that from what I've experienced, if you show the common courtesy, OKC police seem to be pretty tolerant.

Zookeeper and Positano: This traffic stop was probably 2-3 years ago. The cop who searched my car did it from outside the car with his flashlight. My window was still down and he just shined the light through it and through the windows into the back. I heard a lot of the conversation the officer was having with whoever was looking for the mysterious warrant and they said they were having computer problems and that was the main holdup. The cops were getting pretty bored and we talked a little about general stuff. They were cool for the most part. I did hear them talking with the person doing the searching and they said something did come up but then they couldn't find it when they searched again. The cops were as confused as I was. When the call finally came back saying that nothing was found the cops seemed relieved to finally be done with it. Overall they weren't being dicks, but pulling me over for a tail light being out when it was fine was a dick move in the first place.

Why escalate things and give an officer a reason to detain me? If I've got nothing to hide (whether it's an unpaid parking ticket or a body in the trunk), then I'm opening up everything and giving him direct responses to his questions. If I give some attitude to the wrong cop on a bad day, or try to tell him what my rights are, then he can make my life pretty miserable, whether or not it's technically legal.

I define "winning" as getting quickly on my way, not spending thousands of dollars on lawyers and scores of hours preparing for a court hearing that results in charges being dropped.

Oh - and the Nichols Hills police. There's ALWAYS a radar unit on Penn at the Village border and church parking lot at 63rd (but I don't know about the bushes and trees).

Also RE Nichols Hills po po, back in the days of state inspection stickers they pulled me over for a sticker that was a WEEK out of date (first week of the next month - I spaced it). I got the inspection, and since there was a state-mandated 30 day grace period I took proof to the court, and the charge was waived/reduced but I STILL had to pay court costs (around $60 if memory serves, which was not inexpensive for a college student in the late eighties).

All of you people need to slow your butts down.

All of you people need to slow your butts down.

Like this!!!

Within the LEO community Valley Brook and Forest Park are considered the worst dregs in the region.

Arcadia is right up there.

As of lately, I've counted as many as 4 motorcycle cops at the same time on the new I-40 in that 3 mile span...around 7:00 am. Today there were three.

Standing by their bikes pointing the radar at you.

I always hear how tough Norman is, but I can't even remember seeing cops in Norman. I grew up in Edmond, and back then (1990s) they were overpowered and bored, which resulted in me being treated like a criminal because I didn't drive a nice car. I got pulled over once when I was just barely in Nichols Hills because one of my headlights had a loose connection, but they polite and didn't write me a ticket - contrary to the tales I'd always been told. However bad the burb cops can get, they don't come anywhere close to deputies in the unincorporated areas. I was driving down 66 one night and had a Lincoln County deputy get on my ass and ride an inch off my bumper for 10 minutes. He eventually pulled me over because "one of my tail lights was dimmer than the other" (I checked when I got home and it wasn't). He searched my vehicle inside and for drugs, and eventually sent me on my way.

OKC cops are the best. I've lived here 15 years and never had any trouble with them. They've even got a great response time. I had a false alarm once at my house, and the security company dispatched the police who arrived immediately.

O god, i hate to say this because im going to jinx myself, but we have pretty good cops in the metro. There is a presence but i personally never feel like its overwhelming or that there is one around every corner like i do when i visit tulsa.

OKC cops are pretty good. They do have a street presence if you are an idiot they will pull you over, but they are also really good about responding to my house when I had an alarm or (unfortunately) a break in. I wish they had more patrols to catch the thieves, but that's a different story.