Young Professional Couple Decides To Move Out of Downtown, Due To The Lack Of Retail/Shopping Options

I just talked to a co-worker, he and his wife are a young professional married couple, have no kids, and lived in Midtown, at The Florence. They have only been living in OKC for a year, and he stated they will be renting a new apartment behind Quail Springs Mall. I asked him why he doesn't want to stay living downtown, he said he love to live downtown, but the main reason for the move, was to be close to Quail Springs Mall area for their retail options. He said he and is wife were tired of having to drive all the way to Norman, Quail Springs, and Penn Square for good shopping choices.

Talk about being picky lol. . . Well, that why I love America. Options. . . options. I have never heard of people moving because of lack of retail, although I know it is desired.

Young Professional Couple Decides To Move Out of Downtown, Due To The Lack Of Retail/Shopping Options

I just talked to a co-worker, he and his wife are a young professional married couple, have no kids, and lived in Midtown, at The Florence. They have only been living in OKC for a year, and he stated they will be renting a new apartment behind Quail Springs Mall. I asked him why he doesn't want to stay living downtown, he said he loved downtown, but the main reason for the move, was to be close to Quail Springs Mall area for their retail options. He said he and is wife were tired of having to drive all the way to Norman, Quail Springs, and Penn Square for good shopping choices.

Are you suggesting this is some sort of trend? Trust me, there will be 10 people trying fill his spot.

I'll think you'll find most people who live downtown would like more basic services like grocery stores, but nobody lives down here to be close to Wal Mart or JCPenny. Maybe those folks just weren't cut out for urban living. No harm, no foul.

I live a block away from the Florence and Penn Square is not that far. I am in that area every weekend. Do these people practically live at Penn Square or something?

Penn Square is a long ways to drive from downtown for mall shopping? Who knew?

Well he did say, if it was left up to him, he would live downtown, but you know women love to shop, so go figure, lol.

It is probably not just the mall they are wanting to be close to. That area near Quail Springs, it is not even an exaggeration to say it has everything... totally loaded.

G. Walker, you should totally take over the lease, cause like adaniel said, there will be 10 renters vying for that one lease!

He said he and is wife were tired of having to drive all the way to Norman, Quail Springs, and Penn Square for good shopping choices.

Ask him in 6 month if his driving has decreased.

Penn Square is four miles from The Florence.

Four.

Young Professional Couple Decides To Move Out of Downtown, Due To The Lack Of Retail/Shopping Options

I just talked to a co-worker, he and his wife are a young professional married couple, have no kids, and lived in Midtown, at The Florence. They have only been living in OKC for a year, and he stated they will be renting a new apartment behind Quail Springs Mall. I asked him why he doesn't want to stay living downtown, he said he love to live downtown, but the main reason for the move, was to be close to Quail Springs Mall area for their retail options. He said he and is wife were tired of having to drive all the way to Norman, Quail Springs, and Penn Square for good shopping choices.

They must really love their JC Penney and American Eagle if they think Quail Springs is shopping at its finest.. they could have at least moved closer to Penn Square if they had any taste.

The Florence is a great building with beautifully restored 1-br apartments that remind me of exactly where I would live in Chicago or Philly. Their leaving is a benefit to downtown to get some more locally-minded folks in who will support the critical mass of quality local retail taking shape on Broadway.

What a crappy lifestyle choice. Quail Springs? Ha ha. To each his own.

They must really love their JC Penney and American Eagle if they think Quail Springs is shopping at its finest.. they could have at least moved closer to Penn Square if they had any taste.

The Florence is a great building with beautifully restored 1-br apartments that remind me of exactly where I would live in Chicago or Philly. Their leaving is a benefit to downtown to get some more locally-minded folks in who will support the critical mass of quality local retail taking shape on Broadway.

Well, to make it worse they both work downtown. So does living closer to leisure activities such as shopping and dining trump living closer to the workplace? Is that why more people live in suburbs and work in the city?

They're gonna have to drive even further to get to Norman now lol.

Wow, what a boneheaded decision. We lived behind QSM for 6 weeks before we moved by Lake Hefner. I know, not exactly downtown, or midtown, or whatever, but we still don't go to QSM, we go to Penn Square or otherplaces in town.

I know several people who live downtown in everything from $700 rentals to million dollar condos and while I hear the occasional "I wish there was a quality grocery store nearby", I have never heard any even hint at any of them wanting to relocate outside downtown.

But, to move from downtown to Quail is crazy IMO.

Well, to make it worse they both work downtown. So does living closer to leisure activities such as shopping and dining trump living closer to the workplace? Is that why more people live in suburbs and work in the city?

This changes everything and I withdraw my 6 months comment. In 6 days they will be regretting this. Maybe they should get a hotel room near QS for 2 weeks and see if they like the commute.

I know several people who live downtown in everything from $700 rentals to million dollar condos and while I hear the occasional "I wish there was a quality grocery store nearby", I have never heard any even hint at any of them wanting to relocate outside downtown.

But, to move from downtown to Quail is crazy IMO.

You go to the mall maybe once or twice a month. You go the grocery store once a week if you're smart and plan your meals in advance. You go to work 5 or 6 times per week. The explanation given makes no sense.

Whatever. It's hard for me to understand but it takes all kinds. I have ZERO regrets about moving downtown. I miss my swimming pool on occasion, but I avoid the Quail Springs area like the plague. For me, living there sounds like a nightmare.

Quail Springs is definitely a mall in decline IMHOP. Penn Square is where its at.

The only facility I really enjoy that is unique to yhat area is the new Gold's Gym open 24 Monday morning to Friday night. If the OUHSC gym or the downtown Y was 24 (or later hours) with a pool, it would be the only ammenity outside of a broader grocery store that offers any advantage over downtown IMO.

Ripping on someone because they don't want to live downtown? C'mon man......this board is better than that.

Betts said it right. It takes all kinds. Happy for them if they are happy. Me, you couldn't pay me enough to live outside of downtown...

Sounds like you have the perfect job!

Ripping on someone because they don't want to live downtown? C'mon man......this board is better than that.

I hardly think that suggesting they may find out they might have made a wrong decision is being ripped. That's why this is a discussion board. Differing points of view can be discussed.

Ripping on someone because they don't want to live downtown? C'mon man......this board is better than that.

I actually hope we can get a follow-up on this decision in a few months. This type of move hasn't happened in OKC in nearly 50 years.

I actually hope we can get a follow-up on this decision in a few months. This type of move hasn't happened in OKC in nearly 50 years.

this type of move happens all the time ..

this type of move happens all the time ..

People living and working downtown moving to the suburbs. Can you name someone else who did it recently? If so, do you have access to that person to see how it is going?

I sure hope JTF is being sarcastic. I've only been here 4+ years and know several who have done it, and several others who are currently living downtown, and work downtown, who plan on moving out when they have kids. Oh the horror, right?

And guess what, the ones who have done it, still drive downtown when not going to work to enjoy what the city has to offer. As far as the commute, it's not terrible, especially if you've lived elsewhere where there is real traffic.

I sure hope JTF is being sarcastic. I've only been here 4+ years and know several who have done it, and several others who are currently living downtown, and work downtown, who plan on moving out when they have kids. Oh the horror, right?

Well, you added a criteria that doesn't exist with the example we are talking about here - kids. However, there are people living downtown with kids now so if you are going to move for that reason you might want to reconsider. Also, research Cul-de-sac kids.

http://www.parentdish.com/2010/01/12/cul-de-sacs-bad-for-kids/

Moving in advance of kids down the road? They don't always wait until they are pregnant or have a little one. Could be an unlisted factor of the OP's colleague.

If we didn't have a kid, we'd probably move downtown in a heartbeat from where we are.

Some of you guys are funny. lol.

Reminds me of the Yogi Berra quote, "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too busy."

You guys ever wonder WHY the Quail Springs area is so busy? Could it quite possibly be because PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE THERE??? I mean, I'm just spitballing here, but damn... lol

My suspicion is that there are other motivations for moving from their urban dwelling to a more suburban setting that the coworker isn't mentioning. My guess would be either kids coming soon or the more likely option that his wife decided she wants a bigger place and they can only afford it by moving... and since she has the poon... they are now moving.

Yeah, I know people who moved downtown-to-burbs too. Generally for kids, but some just because...who knows? There are lots of lifestyles not for me, and I'm sure downtown's not for everybody, for whatever reason. Either way, well over a million people in the metro currently choose to live in the suburbs over downtown - including many tens of thousands close to or north of Quail - so around here it's actually a pretty popular choice.

Personally I think if more people were exposed to the convenience of downtown living and working they would choose to be here, but that will take time. OKC still has a primarily suburban mindset. To each his own.

I will say that my best friend, who moved to 63rd/Independence area years ago to have and raise kids, REALLY wants to get back downtown as soon as it makes sense (his kids are still quite young).

I actually hope we can get a follow-up on this decision in a few months. This type of move hasn't happened in OKC in nearly 50 years.

Let me solve our current issue so we can stay on topic.

I actually hope we can get a follow-up on this decision in a few months. This type of move hasn't happened very often in OKC in nearly 50 years.

Let me solve our current issue so we can stay on topic.

I actually hope we can get a follow-up on this decision in a few months. This type of move hasn't happened very often in OKC in nearly 50 years.

this type of move with or with out kids on the way .. (often singles that move upon marrige) happens all the time in the last 5 years much less 50 ... there is a reason why the NW side of OKC is the fastest growing area ...

This type of move hasn't happened very often in OKC in nearly 50 years.

Lets flip the script on you...can you provide facts and concrete evidence that this move has not happened often in nearly 50 years? Exaggerate much?

Again, just like there are people who like different kinds of music, play sports, watch sports or hate sports, drive different types of cars or don't drive at all, there are people who like to live in different types of places with different amenities. In Oklahoma City, until a few years ago, no one wanted to live downtown. Even Heritage Hills had fallen off in popularity. Now there are people who want to live downtown and can't imagine living anywhere else. And some people who thought I was crazy 5 years ago are kind of wistful when they ask me how I like it. That's where the sea change has occurred. While there are always going to be people who try downtown and find its not for them, in a few years we will have the interesting retail. We will have a streetcar and a school. We already have more interesting restaurants. I believe interest in downtown living will snowball even more than it has already.

I'm sure people move downtown and they find it isn't for them and they move back into the suburbs and I'm sure people move from the suburbs to downtown and ask themselves "why the hell did I not do this sooner!!!!!". I live in north Edmond and commute to Moore and Norman daily and I have no problem with it. Driving distance is no factor at all when I consider where I live. That just me though, for some, driving is everything and that's just fine.

Having different options is what makes a city great, imo. That's why we need a light-rail and a good bus system!

Some of you guys are funny. lol.

Reminds me of the Yogi Berra quote, "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too busy."

You guys ever wonder WHY the Quail Springs area is so busy? Could it quite possibly be because PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE THERE??? I mean, I'm just spitballing here, but damn... lol

My suspicion is that there are other motivations for moving from their urban dwelling to a more suburban setting that the coworker isn't mentioning. My guess would be either kids coming soon or the more likely option that his wife decided she wants a bigger place and they can only afford it by moving... and since she has the poon... they are now moving.


Maybe they just don't like the neighbors.

Lets flip the script on you...can you provide facts and concrete evidence that this move has not happened often in nearly 50 years? Exaggerate much?

Considering no one other than homeless people and some hold outs at Sycamore Sq and Regency Tower lived downtown for the better part of 40 years - what more proof do you need? If you look at the number of people who relocate within metro-OKC over the past 50 years the number of people who moved from downtown to the suburbs is statistically 0. That is all I meant.

Haha, good point, as the dark years of downtown OKC are definitely before my time here. However, since the renaissance to claim that number as zero is a bold statement.

Hell my wife has a coworker who lived downtown and moved to Marlow! And commutes to downtown daily! No thank you.

That is why I would like to see a follow-up to this decision. In fact, if there are other people who used to live downtown over the past 10 years or so and moved out to the suburbs I would like to hear how that transition went as well.

What are you considering "the burbs" in this case? I'd say if someone moved from downtown to say, Belle Isle, they'd still be pretty close to town and not be a good study.

Some of you guys are funny. lol.

Reminds me of the Yogi Berra quote, "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too busy."

You guys ever wonder WHY the Quail Springs area is so busy? Could it quite possibly be because PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE THERE??? I mean, I'm just spitballing here, but damn... lol

My suspicion is that there are other motivations for moving from their urban dwelling to a more suburban setting that the coworker isn't mentioning. My guess would be either kids coming soon or the more likely option that his wife decided she wants a bigger place and they can only afford it by moving... and since she has the poon... they are now moving.

Well I know for sure its not about the money, as I know for a fact he makes $85,000/yr, and he is only 27. I don't know how much his wife makes, but on his salary alone, they could afford to live in a nice condo/apartment downtown. As for them expecting a baby, he hasn't shared that with me. Honestly, when I asked him the reason for them moving to the Quail Springs area was because of the quick access to leisure options of shopping, dining, and the affluency of the area. They moved here from small town Durant, Ok less than a year ago to take his current position, so maybe that has something to do with it, just an educated guess.

I mean it makes sense...

Quail Springs area dominates downtown in terms of close proximity retail and restaraunts. This board is a poor reflection of the overall OKC thinking because most of us here are urbanists or wanna-be urbanists who want to walk to work and the store. While most of OKC lives in their vehicles and drives any chance given as opposed to walking.

Well I know for sure its not about the money, as I know for a fact he makes $85,000/yr, and he is only 27. I don't know how much his wife makes, but on his salary alone, they could afford to live in a nice condo/apartment downtown. As for them expecting a baby, he hasn't shared that with me. Honestly, when I asked him the reason for them moving to the Quail Springs area was because of the quick access to leisure options of shopping, dining, and the affluency of the area. They moved here from small town Durant, Ok less than a year ago to take his current position, so maybe that has something to do with it, just an educated guess.

Quail Springs isn't even that nice of a shopping area. I could understand Penn Square, but Quail? Especially when you don't have to worry about schools? Whatever makes you happy, I guess.

In any event, I really don't understand why this thread was created. One couple decided downtown wasn't for them. Lots do. Different strokes....

Vehicles drive a large portion of the economy. Think of how many people work in the sales profession? A bunch. Field services? Also a bunch, considering the O&G economy of our state. For those folks who are already in their car a lot for work, being somewhere that they can walk to everything doesn't really matter to them. The city can support both types.

I remember when he first moved here, he said he loved the fact that he could walk across the street to Cafe De Brasil, but I guess you can only eat there so many times, lol. I think his wife had a major influence of them moving out of downtown. Which brings up a study that I would like to see on how many single young professional women live downtown vs. how many single young profressional men live downtown. Do women take into account access to leisure options of shopping/dining over being close to the workplace?

I think the reaction on this thread to this one example of a decision not to live downtown should serve as a wakeup call to those who seem so dumbstruck at the notion that anyone might choose not to live downtown.

I don't think many of the urban advocates here realize just how pious they sound sometimes in their thinly veiled condemnation of anyone's choice not to live downtown, as if it represents some sort of moral failing.

I have no problem with people choosing to live downtown. If that's the lifestyle they prefer, power to 'em.

I have no problem, either, with people choosing to live in the suburbs.

For a board that works hard to promote and foster a diverse range of opinions, the reactions in this thread to this situation would suggest there's a ways to go in that regard. Neither choice of living in the 'burbs or in the new urban core represents a character defect. Calling someone's decision to live anywhere a "crappy lifestyle choice" is rather myopic. It is their choice, and I'm delighted that people have those options available to them.

I mean it makes sense...

Quail Springs area dominates downtown in terms of close proximity retail and restaraunts.

I would take the downtown/midtown/automobile alley restaurants over the whole collection of chainsville crap on Memorial any day of the week.

As for retail, UPS delivers every evening around 5.

I think the reaction on this thread to this one example of a decision not to live downtown should serve as a wakeup call to those who seem so dumbstruck at the notion that anyone might choose not to live downtown.

I don't think many of the urban advocates here realize just how pious they sound sometimes in their thinly veiled condemnation of anyone's choice not to live downtown, as if it represents some sort of moral failing.

I have no problem with people choosing to live downtown. If that's the lifestyle they prefer, power to 'em.

I have no problem, either, with people choosing to live in the suburbs.

For a board that works hard to promote and foster a diverse range of opinions, the reactions in this thread to this situation would suggest there's a ways to go in that regard. Neither choice of living in the 'burbs or in the new urban core represents a character defect. Calling someone's decision to live anywhere a "crappy lifestyle choice" is rather myopic. It is their choice, and I'm delighted that people have those options available to them.

You just summed up this entire place in a nutshell, well said. Reading most of this board I feel by living in 73162 I'm putting tremendous strain on OKC and preventing this city from being great (guess what, it already is, and it's not slowing down because I live outside of the CBD).

Plenty of people leave downtown. I know many of them. Ironically Deep Deuce and the other apartments are incredible "suburban development generators".

People move into the CBD, and get accustomed to generating the income and paying the $850 - $1,650 per month rent. After several years of doing this, many of them start to realize, 'Geez! I could own a freaking home for what I'm paying here! And it might actually be an investment I can get some money back on later!' And many of them come to this conclusion often with or without kids.

The suburban developer has efficiently generated a product that fits within this monthly rate and they are seduced to the suburbs because there is no reasonable quantity of "for sale" product that matches the rental rate people are paying downtown.

The dynamic that has changed is that the amenities downtown have become so seductive in their own right, I suspect people are willing to rent for longer periods of time to enjoy them.

But downtown does have a long term problem, a lack of people that are directly invested in it. While we have developers now that seem to care and be good partners, when apartment projects start to get flipped and deteriorate, we'll be wishing we had more homeowners scattered around to help keep them accountable.

I personally believe that we need a well constructed quality condo tower that provides housing financed at monthly payments equivalent to rental rates or we need to be chopping up Urban Renewal parcels and offering small"personal sized" lots for redevelopment by individuals and their architects. A great start might be that half block area they own behind the 911 center or similar half blocks here and there.

I think some of you are reading things that aren't be typed.

The topic of this thread can only be based on the reasons provided by the OP. Couple X doesn't like having to drive, so they are moving from an area where walking is an option to an area where driving is the only option. We will see how that works out for them but it seems counterintuitive to me. They might very well be the first people in history to move to suburbia (which is by definition un-walkable) to avoid driving. Maybe they have other criteria as well - but who knows.

Plenty of people leave downtown. I know many of them. Ironically Deep Deuce and the other apartments are incredible "suburban development generators".

People move into the CBD, and get accustomed to generating the income and paying the $850 - $1,650 per month rent. After several years of doing this, many of them start to realize, 'Geez! I could own a freaking home for what I'm paying here! And it might actually be an investment I can get some money back on later!' And many of them come to this conclusion often with or without kids.

The suburban developer has efficiently generated a product that fits within this monthly rate and they are seduced to the suburbs because there is no reasonable quantity of "for sale" product that matches the rental rate people are paying downtown.

The dynamic that has changed is that the amenities downtown have become so seductive in their own right, I suspect people are willing to rent for longer periods of time to enjoy them.

But downtown does have a long term problem, a lack of people that are directly invested in it. While we have developers now that seem to care and be good partners, when apartment projects start to get flipped and deteriorate, we'll be wishing we had more homeowners scattered around to help keep them accountable.

I personally believe that we need a well constructed quality condo tower that provides housing financed at monthly payments equivalent to rental rates or we need to be chopping up Urban Renewal parcels and offering small"personal sized" lots for redevelopment by individuals and their architects.


It's almost like you took this from my brain. 100% agree.

Thanks!

I mean the ammenities compared to when I first moved downtown are now incredible. I'm sitting at Peloton right now after walking just half a block because I wanted a light lunch. Unthinkable a few years ago.

But I can totally get someone moving because of the investment issue irregardless of kids.

It doesn't even have to be "new suburbia". Plently of inner-suburban redevelopment going on directly stimulated by downtown renter income/payment profiles.

The greed and rush to build high-cost housing first was a horrible overreach by our "development community."

Plenty of people leave downtown. I know many of them. Ironically Deep Deuce and the other apartments are incredible "suburban development generators".

People move into the CBD, and get accustomed to generating the income and paying the $850 - $1,650 per month rent. After several years of doing this, many of them start to realize, 'Geez! I could own a freaking home for what I'm paying here! And it might actually be an investment I can get some money back on later!' And many of them come to this conclusion often with or without kids.

The suburban developer has efficiently generated a product that fits within this monthly rate and they are seduced to the suburbs because there is no reasonable quantity of "for sale" product that matches the rental rate people are paying downtown.

The dynamic that has changed is that the amenities downtown have become so seductive in their own right, I suspect people are willing to rent for longer periods of time to enjoy them.

But downtown does have a long term problem, a lack of people that are directly invested in it. While we have developers now that seem to care and be good partners, when apartment projects start to get flipped and deteriorate, we'll be wishing we had more homeowners scattered around to help keep them accountable.

I personally believe that we need a well constructed quality condo tower that provides housing financed at monthly payments equivalent to rental rates or we need to be chopping up Urban Renewal parcels and offering small"personal sized" lots for redevelopment by individuals and their architects. A great start might be that half block area they own behind the 911 center or similar half blocks here and there.

All good points.

You are exactly right about the lack of ownership in the CBD. I know a ton of people who would have loved to buy in downtown, but cannot spend more than $200/sq ft. Which is going to be pretty difficult for the handful of units you can buy down here.

At the same time (and this is a general complaint about this area), developers in the suburban areas here are the most uncreative bunches of dolts I have ever seen. If you want anything less than an okie chateau Mcmansion you are out of luck. I mean, I would be much more open to the suburbs if I could find a townhouse, patio home, or decent condo development, and one can actually find these things in other cities our size. As a single person, the thought of maintaining and paying for a huge empty house with a yard is ridiculous. But your choices here are the aforementioned Mcmansion or nothing. And I am not the only one. Demographics are changing. People are waiting longer to get married, and when they do they are not popping out kids like they use to. This is happening even in red-state Oklahoma. Recently there was an article in the JR that 9% of people in OKC would like to live in a condo or townhouse but these units compromise 1% of the housing here.

So until we see development starting changing with tastes, I think you will have people like me in limbo. And as it stands now, the best place for people like me is in downtown, even with inflated rents. If I go anywhere, it will likely be to one of the historical neighborhoods with smaller homes. And I know quite a few young people who are doing the same.

For that reason, I think we can expect to see the non-downtown (13th/Classen/River/235) Urban Core do really well over the next 15 years.

There's a lot of great homes already, many of them (well) under 2000 square feet. Land is still relatively cheap where it's undeveloped, and the high turnover rate in the less established neighborhoods provides a good investment opportunity for young individuals. Plus there are interesting districts peppered throughout this area that all show great signs of becoming urban opportunities themselves: Paseo, 23rd, Plaza.

I live off 46th and Classen and I literally couldn't ask for a better location. Unless traffic is just a bear, I can get anywhere in this metro area in 25 minutes or less: Norman/Edmond/Yukon/Choctaw. I can walk to Will Rogers Theater, Penn Square, several parks. I can drive to Classen Curve, Downtown, May Ave, the Plaza in under 10 minutes. Traffic flows really well in this part of the city, so I never deal with hitting the same stop-light 3 times like you can on NW expressway...even during rush hour.

I'd enjoy living downtown, but for what I pay to live here and still have a decent urban experience (At one point I scored like a 74 on Zillow's walkability scale), I don't think I could justify it.

Ripping on someone because they don't want to live downtown? C'mon man......this board is better than that.

I don't think anyone's ripping on them for moving, just for their rationale. I moved out of town and don't regret it. I like having a yard, a little space, and a house that doesn't cost $300/square foot.

Considering no one other than homeless people and some hold outs at Sycamore Sq and Regency Tower lived downtown for the better part of 40 years - what more proof do you need? If you look at the number of people who relocate within metro-OKC over the past 50 years the number of people who moved from downtown to the suburbs is statistically 0. That is all I meant.


Could that be that after everyone left downtown "50 years" ago, there wasn't anyone (rom a statistical standpoint) around to make the move since then? Now that folks are living downtown, there might be more deciding it isn't for them after all.

Could that be that after everyone left downtown "50 years" ago, there wasn't anyone (rom a statistical standpoint) around to make the move since then? Now that folks are living downtown, there might be more deciding it isn't for them after all.

Larry - you summed it up pretty well.

Penn Square is a long ways to drive from downtown for mall shopping? Who knew?
Some people have a two mile comfort bubble, I knew people in Austin who thought they had to plan a trip to cross the river (Lady Bird/Town Lake).


You go to the mall maybe once or twice a month. You go the grocery store once a week if you're smart and plan your meals in advance. You go to work 5 or 6 times per week. The explanation given makes no sense.
Some people feel they have to go to the mall every week, sometimes multiple times a week. I don't get it and I am one who really doesn't desire to live downtown but that has more to do with hobbies that don't fit in the downtown world without a large building.

I knew quite a few who sold homes in places like West Lake Hills and moved to Downtown Austin after their kids were out of school, mostly to The Monarch apartments to try out downtown living. Most bought a downtown condo or bought in one of the near downtown neighborhoods (and they worked downtown). A few couples moved back out to the burbs or even the further out areas and bought land. We are planning on a place in the mountains in the future (likely Evergreen/Conifer) but we also hope to have our own businesses/practice close to home at the time that will not require a trip into Downtown Denver everyday.

This board is hilarious. Some people..

Living in general requires planning if you want to maximize your time doing the things you like to do and spend less time on the things you have to do. You can live pretty much anywhere with a little planning and preparedness. Living without a grocery store nearby just means you have to plan ahead. If you don't like driving everyday, you buy to get through more than just a day or two. You pick up the things you use frequently on the way home from work. (Milk, Bread, Eggs etc.)

This couple reminds me of the folks who bought the big SUV's in the 90's and 00's that complained when gas prices shot up. Gas prices have been fluctuating for years. You don't drive something with a huge gas tank unless you need it (Large Family, haul cargo on a regular basis). You always look at the big picture when paying for big ticket items. If the pros and cons don't fully agree with you, its best to explore other options. (Living in another area, buying a different model of car or simple planning so you don't spend a fortune.)