View Full Version : Deep Deuce SpringHill Suites
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Plutonic Panda 06-05-2013, 08:24 PM I hope they show up on the 20th. I'll be there.I'll drive up from Edmond and give my 2 cents about it. It time the line is drawn with these cheap developments in the core of our city. The standards are waaaaaaaaay below what they need to be and OKC needs to make a rep of itself that we will no longer accept cheap tacky ass developments in our city, esp. Downtown!
betts 06-05-2013, 08:24 PM Is Bill Canfield still the developer at the Hill?
Rover 06-05-2013, 08:25 PM Since when did bland and cheap become "contemporary"?
I don't know squat about these type of things but this is so obviously not suited for the location I have to wonder if this a 'lowball' offer if you will so that they can come back with a "compromise" design that still doesn't fit and is only mildly less offensive but demonstrates a good faith effort to accommodate the neighborhood's concerns. Or not but this design will stick out like a sore thumb.
Fear the wrath of OKCTalk!!! :cuss2:
Mississippi Blues 06-05-2013, 08:27 PM I'll drive up from Edmond and give my 2 cents about it. It time the line is drawn with these cheap developments in the core of our city. The standards are waaaaaaaaay below what they need to be and OKC needs to make a rep of itself that we will no longer accept cheap tacky ass developments in our city, esp. Downtown!
Preach Panda!!
I don't know squat about these type of things but this is so obviously not suited for the location I have to wonder if this a 'lowball' offer if you will so that they can come back with a "compromise" design that still doesn't fit and is only mildly less offensive but demonstrates a good faith effort to accommodate the neighborhood's concerns. Or not but this design will stick out like a sore thumb.
That's an idea but you run the risk of completely losing credibility and turning the entire committee against you.
Plus, it's a sure way to make a project drag out forever and I'm sure he wants to get it under construction and open. Until then, there is only expense with no revenue.
Plutonic Panda 06-05-2013, 08:30 PM Fear the wrath of OKCTalk!!! :cuss2:+1
Preach Panda!!I'll be down there man haha. . . Is it the 20th, is when there is some sort of conference or meeting about it? I'm actually about to write an email right now and in the process of finding out who, or whom, I need to send it to.
Urban Pioneer 06-05-2013, 09:12 PM Fear the wrath of OKCTalk!!! :cuss2:
LOL. Are you sure that we are adequately informed enough as to what "the facts" really are? Nooooo... we couldn't be. I mean OKC Talkers aren't competent enough to read agenda packets... Wait for the newspaper to officially report on it Pete!
catch22 06-05-2013, 09:14 PM LOL. Are you sure that we are adequately informed enough as to what "the facts" really are? Nooooo... we couldn't be. I mean OKC Talkers aren't competent enough to read agenda packets... Wait for the newspaper to officially report on it Pete!
I don't feel confident in my knowledge of civic developments until a newspaper comes out and informs me.
Just the facts 06-05-2013, 09:14 PM All of a sudden this doesn't look so bad now does it?
http://i2.bookcdn.com/data/Photos/OriginalPhoto/70/7016/7016090/Springhill-Suites-Memphis-Downtown-photos-Exterior.JPEG
As for these plans - the don't even make sense. The hotel has 115 rooms and only about 25 parking spaces. That wouldn't be bad if they didn't have sidewalks that look like they were designed by Robert Moses. Clearly about 90 people a day will stay here with no way to get in to the hotel without walking IN the driveway. What appeared to me to be brick paved sidewalks (the crosshatch pattern) is labeled as grass.
Alas, the scariest word of all - prototypical.
Skyline 06-05-2013, 09:38 PM That last sentence of the Design Statement makes me question the "Downtown Oklahoma City Character". I'm not sure if that is an insult or them just calling it the way they see it.
betts 06-05-2013, 09:49 PM So, I used Google images to see what some of the Springhill Suites around the country look like. First of all, I don't think there's a prototype. Secondly, I saw one out of all of them that had a bit of blue on it and none with gold. The most attractive is one in New Orleans that would fit into the neighborhood well.
Plutonic Panda 06-05-2013, 09:57 PM All of a sudden this doesn't look so bad now does it?
http://i2.bookcdn.com/data/Photos/OriginalPhoto/70/7016/7016090/Springhill-Suites-Memphis-Downtown-photos-Exterior.JPEG
As for these plans - the don't even make sense. The hotel has 115 rooms and only about 25 parking spaces. That wouldn't be bad if they didn't have sidewalks that look like they were designed by Robert Moses. Clearly about 90 people a day will stay here with no way to get in to the hotel without walking IN the driveway. What appeared to me to be brick paved sidewalks (the crosshatch pattern) is labeled as grass.
Alas, the scariest word of all - prototypical.It doesn't look like the building has a central air and heat system.
Rover 06-05-2013, 10:40 PM It doesn't look like the building has a central air and heat system.
No. They are of the cheap through the wall packaged terminal air conditioners. With the cheap budget they most likely have no condensate removal system which means a high likelihood of stains running down the walls in a year or two. And imagine the noise in the summer if you have 115 running. It will really add to the character of the neighborhood. I keep hearing the call for more grittiness in the neighborhood....well, it looks like you get it.
Keep in mind that this same developer owns land on Sheridan just west of Lincoln and has stated he wants to build two more hotels there.
All the more reasons to set high standards before we see THREE projects like this.
I cropped one of Will's photos to show how incredibly visible this project will be, especially since it fronts the railroad right of way, which means nothing will ever be built immediately south; same is true for the west border as there is a utility easement. And at six stories, it will be taller than anything around it.
Also, you can see the new Hill townhouses going up immediately across Perry.
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/springhill6613.jpg
HangryHippo 06-06-2013, 10:39 AM Get the people at the Hill upset about this and I'm sure we'll see some design changes...
Just the facts 06-06-2013, 10:59 AM Get the people at the Hill upset about this and I'm sure we'll see some design changes...
If they are as successful as the people in Heritage Hills they should be able to keep a porn store out of the lobby. At least there no balconies for hotel guest to dry their clothes on. :)
I know it was posted earlier but what entity has say over the approval process?
Downtown Design Review Committee.
Meeting is scheduled for Thursday 6/20 and they meet at:
Council Chambers, City Hall, 200 North Walker Ave., Third Floor - 9:30 a.m
Spartan 06-06-2013, 11:06 AM Downtown Design Review Committee.
Meeting is scheduled for Thursday 6/20 and they meet at:
Council Chambers, City Hall, 200 North Walker Ave., Third Floor - 9:30 a.m
...which has the best track record of any design committee. Not saying much tho.
warreng88 06-06-2013, 01:14 PM I am just now getting a look at this project. The colors on the side look like a bar graph of ugly...
LakeEffect 06-06-2013, 01:33 PM Most of the sidewalks in Deep Deuce are brick stamped but are also 6'. These are proposed 5'.
And they should be 8', minimum. I can't stand that the Downtown Streetscape Master Plan (which covers Bricktown, Deep Deuce, Auto Alley, etc.) recommends 5' minimum. Since the plan is referenced in design code, anything larger cannot be "required", only requested.
CaptDave 06-06-2013, 02:44 PM +1
cagoklahoma 06-06-2013, 02:50 PM Call me an optimist, but here's how I see it. The Hill is a very nice and attractive design, but it's expensive. So expensive in fact, I am a few tax brackets away from being able to afford to live there, which is unfortunate. This SpringHill Suites design is really crappy and cheap. So maybe, the crappy designed hotels will lower the market demand for The Hill thus lowering the prices, possibly to a price point where I can afford. #silverlining
FYI, I don't really think that way.
Rover 06-06-2013, 03:32 PM Call me an optimist, but here's how I see it. The Hill is a very nice and attractive design, but it's expensive. So expensive in fact, I am a few tax brackets away from being able to afford to live there, which is unfortunate. This SpringHill Suites design is really crappy and cheap. So maybe, the crappy designed hotels will lower the market demand for The Hill thus lowering the prices, possibly to a price point where I can afford. #silverlining
FYI, I don't really think that way.
Unfortunately, that is exactly the type of reasoning that keeps better projects from being built. It is a lot safer being lower than average than above average. Without proper standards which are vigorously enforced, gravity could drag the area down and down over time.
soonerguru 06-06-2013, 03:44 PM These were taken today at the planning office.
Some things of note:
1) This is just a rectangular box with no architectural detail other than different colors. Yellowish and blue are EIFS (synthetic stucco) and the remainder is brick.
2) There are no sidewalks on the corner. Not sure how they were hoping to put in cross walks at the intersection.
3) Steve's blog referenced an indoor / outdoor pool. These plans clearly only show a very small indoor pool.
4) The lobby / common area is quite small.
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/springhill6513a.jpg
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/springhill6513aa.jpg
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/springhill6513b.jpg
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/springhill6513c.jpg
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/springhill6513d.jpg
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/springhill6513e.jpg
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/springhill6513f.jpg
This is hideous and in no way reflects the neighborhood. Now that we've seen the actual design documents, WE ARE NO LONGER "UNINFORMED," and hopefully are now allowed to speak.
soonerguru 06-06-2013, 03:47 PM These renderings make Steve's comments even more confounding. It seems that the collective intelligence of OKCTalk was dead on about this development being questionable, but Steve wanted us to wait until official information is out? I don't get it because it doesn't seem like Steve.
I hope people on this board show up to voice opposition to this development. Maybe this could serve as a way to let the City know that these types of cheap developments are no longer acceptable and will meet opposition.
Face it, sometimes Steve is wrong and he's loathe to ever admit it.
Anonymous. 06-06-2013, 04:20 PM I have seen hottubs larger than that "pool".
CaptDave 06-06-2013, 04:43 PM The sidewalk configuration is ridiculous, but is in keeping with the rest of the proposal I guess. Why in the hell would anyone walk up the hill on the west side of Perry, then turn 90 degrees at the hotel driveway, cross the street, then continue walking north?
dteagle 06-06-2013, 04:48 PM This may be one of those times we wish for larger setbacks to make room for a solid wall of very tall evergreens.
Spartan 06-06-2013, 05:19 PM Anyone else think that the orange and blue EIFS is kinda garish?
OKCisOK4me 06-06-2013, 05:46 PM I'll be more than happy to go door to door at The Hill informing everyone of this project and tell them to attend that meeting. Its just hideous!
Better photo of the site from Will:
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/springhill6613b.jpg
CaptDave 06-06-2013, 06:43 PM This may be one of those times we wish for larger setbacks to make room for a solid wall of very tall evergreens.
I had thought that but didn't want to say anything for fear of giving them ideas!
Anonymous. 06-06-2013, 06:43 PM I'll be more than happy to go door to door at The Hill informing everyone of this project and tell them to attend that meeting. Its just hideous!
That actually is a legit idea. Surely someone on this board owns one of the Hills or has access to HOA and can mass email everyone.
Spartan 06-06-2013, 06:53 PM And I'm not seeing the Porte-cochere depicted in the site plans..in the elevations, so perhaps those are a lot more rudimentary than we may realize now.
And I'm not seeing the Porte-cochere depicted in the site plans..in the elevations, so perhaps those are a lot more rudimentary than we may realize now.
It's shown here in the lower left; it's very small, just room for one car:
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/springhill6513e.jpg
Urban Pioneer 06-06-2013, 07:10 PM Is Urban Neighbors in any way informed about this? Technically, they are the neighborhood association and could fill some rooms. The Hill may have an HOA but I suspect that doesn't amount to a ton of people necessarily.
There are several members of U.N. on this thread.
I'll also post it to their Facebook group.
Spartan 06-06-2013, 07:28 PM It's shown here in the lower left; it's very small, just room for one car:
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/springhill6513e.jpg
This photo is cut off.
^
Only slightly.
The building only extends a few more feet to the left of that photo.
OKCisOK4me 06-06-2013, 08:14 PM Another description: atrocious
kbsooner 06-06-2013, 09:08 PM Is Bill Canfield still the developer at the Hill?
yes...
kbsooner 06-06-2013, 09:48 PM So the play here is the arch and owner intentionally low balled the initial elevations and plan on purpose? IE, if they set the original bar so low, that once the "give in" to design review requests/comments and make the minimum changes allowed to pass review, that they would land at the level they really intended on spending? They had to know no matter what they submitted, they would be getting some form of commentary and/or rejection back. If you are trying to go on the cheap, why try to knock it out of the park?
As for the elevations, my 6 y.o. son has produced more aesthetically pleasing structures on Minecraft. Actually, I may be underselling his talents.
Skyline 06-06-2013, 10:15 PM I know this type of phrase is used quite often but I can't help it .... "Don't Lower Bricktown my Deep Deuce".
Just the facts 06-06-2013, 10:24 PM Anyone else think that the orange and blue EIFS is kinda garish?
It looks like a clown exploded.
Just the facts 06-06-2013, 10:26 PM The sidewalk configuration is ridiculous, but is in keeping with the rest of the proposal I guess. Why in the hell would anyone walk up the hill on the west side of Perry, then turn 90 degrees at the hotel driveway, cross the street, then continue walking north?
I can't figure out the sidewalk plan myself. How do you not have a sidewalk where crosswalks are?
catch22 06-06-2013, 10:37 PM How do you walk in to the meeting with this proposal and renderings and hold a straight face?
kbsooner 06-06-2013, 10:37 PM AOR seems to be pretty young, but has quite a few similar hotels under his belt...
Pointe Place Shopping Center - TX
September 2011 – Present
Commercial shopping mall with outdoor plaza and shops, featuring splash pads. Area of Construction - Phase 1 - 14000 sq.ft.
Sikh Gurdwara of Oklahoma - OKC
September 2011 – April 2013
Place of worship for Sikhs - pre-engineered metal building - 5000 sq.ft.
Candlewood Suites - OKC
September 2011 – Present
4 Story Extended Stay hotel - 94 rooms.
Super 8 - Eminent Domain project - Bedford, TX
October 2011 – March 2012
Reduction of building size due to expansion of freeway, near Dallas, TX.
Motel 6 Conversion - Overland Park, KS
October 2011 – March 2012
Conversion of existing Red Roof Inn to Motel 6 and a Days Inn.
Wyndham Hotel Conversion - OKC
October 2011 – Present
Renovation of an existing hotel Clarion to a Wyndham.
DanceMakers Studio '5 Corners', Edmond, OK.
January 2012 – January 2013
8000 sq.ft. of Dance Studio with 3 Ball Rooms.
Daycare Center for Adults,Duncan, OK
January 2012 – February 2012
2000 sq.ft. Existing Building being converted to a Daycare facility for adults.
Days Inn - Exterior Renovation
March 2012 – Present
Converting Red Roof Inn to Days Inn. Exterior Renovation.
Fairfield Inn & Suites, Yukon, OK.
April 2012 – Present
Gen 4 Marriott - 90 room hotel - Fairfield Inn & Suites, Yukon, OK.
Mary Mahoney Clinic - New Addition
May 2012 – Present
6000 sq.ft. addition to an existing medical clinic in Oklahoma City. Funded by grants awarded to the Clinic.
Healing Hands Clinic
May 2012 – April 2013
Interior Renovation of a 3000 sq.ft. medical clinic for the homeless people. Funds from grant awarded to the Clinic.
First Baptist Church Gymnasium - Cache, OK
June 2012 – Present
12000 sq.ft. church gymnasium - pre-engineered metal building.
Motel 6 - San Antonio, TX
June 2012 – Present
Re-Build of Motel 6 building that burned down.
Hampton Inn @ Carrizo Springs, TX
August 2012 – Present
New Hotel construction in oil boom town in South TX.
Comfort Inn & Suites @ San Marcos, TX
September 2012 – Present
72 room hotel.
Hilton Garden Inn @ Hobbs, NM
November 2012 – Present
113 Rooms hotel in Hobbs, NM.
First Baptist Church Expansion, Geronimo, OK
December 2012
SpringHill Suites Downtown OKC
January 2013 – Present
6 Story, 115-Room Hotel in Downtown OKC.
Home2 Suites, Edmond, OK
January 2013
88 Room Extended Stay hotel in Edmond, OK.
Interior Renovation - Fairfield Inn & Suites, Edmond, OK
January 2013
Lobby and Public areas upgrade.
Medical Clinic @ Carney, OK
June 2012 – Present
4000 sq.ft. medical clinic - Federal grant project.
Comfort Inn & Suites, Newcastle, OK
March 2013 – Present
75-Rooms.
Super 8 Conversion @ Duncan, OK.
March 2013 – Present
Existing hotel conversion to Super 8 in Duncan, OK.
dankrutka 06-06-2013, 11:46 PM Maybe this isn't a real proposal, but a challenge to the power of the OKCTalk community to see if we're all talk or going to do something about developments like this. And, will we accept a slightly better, but still awful 2nd proposal? ;) Seriously though, on some level, isn't that what this is?
Teo9969 06-07-2013, 01:37 AM It raises a good question:
Assuming that the community can show up in impressive fashion vying vociferously against this proposal, is there a way to simultaneously try, as a community, to not only deny this current proposal, but define and demand a certain entry level of quality. It seems like if they are attempting the play out of "KDs" playbook, then advocates need to not only take a stand against something but also a stand FOR something alternative if the effort is to be successful. I would hate to waste the time and resources of everybody wanting better only to get a few minor concessions about paint colors, and sidewalk width.
kevinpate 06-07-2013, 06:36 AM How can a 100+ room hotel only provide parking capacity for 25% of the rooms?
Spartan 06-07-2013, 07:31 AM Maybe this isn't a real proposal, but a challenge to the power of the OKCTalk community to see if we're all talk or going to do something about developments like this. And, will we accept a slightly better, but still awful 2nd proposal? ;) Seriously though, on some level, isn't that what this is?
Developers are always looking to get away with the bare minimum.
betts 06-07-2013, 07:39 AM How can a 100+ room hotel only provide parking capacity for 25% of the rooms?
That's the only part I'm fine with. Perhaps they're planning to make use of the public parking lot to the south.
Just the facts 06-07-2013, 08:09 AM How can a 100+ room hotel only provide parking capacity for 25% of the rooms?
This is one the few items I approve of. We stayed at a Residence Inn in downtown Memphis and they didn't provide any parking - zip, zilch, nada. I had to park in a public garage several blocks away.
The parking codes for the urban core are different than elsewhere in the city, which is why restaurants and bars cam get permits without any dedicated parking at all.
If you think about it, many of hotels downtown don't have their own parking but rather utilize other garages and lots.
Rover 06-07-2013, 08:40 AM This is one the few items I approve of. We stayed at a Residence Inn in downtown Memphis and they didn't provide any parking - zip, zilch, nada. I had to park in a public garage several blocks away.
You didn't actually drive there in an evil car, did you? ;-)
Just the facts 06-07-2013, 08:47 AM You didn't actually drive there in an evil car, did you? ;-)
Yep. Until they build a way for me to participate in life without one I have to own one. You want to have a sleepless night - park your car over-night in downtown Memphis. I fully expected it (or the contents) to be gone in the morning. Not only would my car be gone but I would be stuck in Memphis. :)
Yep. Until they build a way for me to operate without one I have to own one. You want to have a sleepless night - park your car over-night in downtown Memphis. I fully expected it (or the contents) to be gone in the morning.
I've been told to leave the car unlocked and remove all the valuables in such a situation.
And, to stay on topic, I'd also like to agree with the general consensus that this hotel, as designed, is an abomination. Additionally, I've never seen the word prototypical used so many times in such a short letter.
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