View Full Version : Skyrocketing Gas Prices
ou48A 05-22-2013, 01:34 PM Umm. Permit was signed by the Administration this past year for a new refinery in North Dakota. So things are moving to allow them again.
Yes it been permitted but it hasn’t been built yet, and that’s what I indicated.
For many years the permitting process for major projects has taken way to long
ou48A 05-22-2013, 01:38 PM Interesting news article today in the Oklahoman about demands from the NG industry wanting more permits to start exporting as much liquid natural gas as possible because the prices are much higher on the international market. Which then leads us back down the road of oil prices being high because of the global market you defend. So I guess it is only a matter of time until the NG prices equalize and the cost savings from NG goes up in smoke.
I don’t defend the global market, I just recognize its reality rather I like it or not.
kelroy55 05-22-2013, 02:49 PM A real intellectual and educated response.LOL
It's an appropriate response to a whiny post.
mkjeeves 05-22-2013, 02:55 PM Higher NG prices? The code word for that is "rebound". Also, I don't work in the fuels industry at all. In fact, I try to use those products as little as I can.
I don't think anyone thought you work in the fuels industry.
The code words are supply vastly exceeds demand and the market manipulators haven't been able to overcome that.
Just the facts 05-22-2013, 03:08 PM Venture79 is right. Any extra capacity would be exported, not used to drive down prices here in states. Of course, OU48A is right also. The oil companies want to charge us as much as they can but just low enough to keep us from finding something else to use.
ou48A 05-22-2013, 04:39 PM Venture79 is right. Any extra capacity would be exported, not used to drive down prices here in states. Of course, OU48A is right also. The oil companies want to charge us as much as they can but just low enough to keep us from finding something else to use.
Is there anything else as efficient and practical to use….?
Lots of energy poor nations and many others have spent billions and employing many very smart people to work on this problem for several decades. They haven’t managed to find a solution and there are trillions to be made…
Let’s not be so ridiculous to think the oil companies are blocking the world from coming up with a replacement fuel.
Larry OKC 05-22-2013, 04:41 PM Noticed yesterday when mother and I were running errands that EVERY 7-11 that we saw from Moore, Southside, to where I live near NW 50th & Portland (found out from a co-worker, it was the same in Yukon) ALL had the same $3.79 price at least a dozen locations. Very unusual. While I think pricing for all of a particular chain should be the same within a geographic area, most of the time 7-11 prices can vary from one side of town or even stations within blocks from each other, by as much as a nickel or dime. May just be a coincidence, but it was the same day it was reported in the paper that the Gov had declared a state of emergency in numerous counties because of the tornados and it triggered the anti-gouging law. it may be a PR move on 7-11s part to head off any talk of price-gouging during this time. Even though they can still legally raise prices up to 10% more than what they were before the declaration. Which means at $4/gallon they could still legally raise the price another 40 cents. But good news and hope the lowering trend continues and we at least get back to the $3.09 I paid a month ago.
Just the facts 05-22-2013, 08:30 PM Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts
Venture79 is right. Any extra capacity would be exported, not used to drive down prices here in states. Of course, OU48A is right also. The oil companies want to charge us as much as they can but just low enough to keep us from finding something else to use.
Is there anything else as efficient and practical to use….?
Lots of energy poor nations and many others have spent billions and employing many very smart people to work on this problem for several decades. They haven’t managed to find a solution and there are trillions to be made…
Let’s not be so ridiculous to think the oil companies are blocking the world from coming up with a replacement fuel.
Personally, I use the most efficient machine known to man for most of my local needs, but I digress. I am simply making the point that if gasoline cost $5 or $6 per gallon other fuels would then become economically viable, profit motive would kick-in, economies of scale would be achieved, barriers to entry would be reduced, and gasoline would find itself obsolete at any price.
ou48A 05-22-2013, 11:22 PM Personally, I use the most efficient machine known to man for most of my local needs, but I digress. I am simply making the point that if gasoline cost $5 or $6 per gallon other fuels would then become economically viable, profit motive would kick-in, economies of scale would be achieved, barriers to entry would be reduced, and gasoline would find itself obsolete at any price.
Yes if gasoline cost $5 or $6 per gallon other fuels would then become economically viable but history has shown this to be a very flawed thought, because it would send the US and likely the world economy into a very serious economic recession. It’s already happened at much lower levels several times.
The fact is that there is no replacement except for NG that won’t do very serious economic damage. A very poor economy creates a very tight energy research budget situation. If you kill the economy you would drive down crude oil prices that would in turn bankrupt most of those other fuels that you just think you want.
venture 05-23-2013, 01:28 AM Yes if gasoline cost $5 or $6 per gallon other fuels would then become economically viable but history has shown this to be a very flawed thought, because it would send the US and likely the world economy into a very serious economic recession. It’s already happened at much lower levels several times.
The fact is that there is no replacement except for NG that won’t do very serious economic damage. A very poor economy creates a very tight energy research budget situation. If you kill the economy you would drive down crude oil prices that would in turn bankrupt most of those other fuels that you just think you want.
So essentially you are saying the Oil and NG industry has the country/world economy hostage and nothing we can do about it?
We definitely have replacements already, but there are many taboos around them. Wind and Nuclear could easily move in and start reducing power generation from Oil/Gas products. Of course the big one comes to replacing it in transportation, which we don't have it yet. Once the power grid is able to support it, vehicles can be moved to be mostly electric with in road charging systems (already exists). The solution isn't as easy when it comes to air and sea.
Just the facts 05-23-2013, 08:18 AM We could do that Venture but it would be super expensive. I prefer just living closer to what I need. Our grandparents were smart enough to put the kitchen and bathroom inside the house but if we applied development techniques to the home we would spread each use all over the lot and TVs in bedroom would be banned because that is mixed-use. Eating popcorn while watching TV would require a zoning change. Sleeping on the sofa would get you a fine from code enforcement.
Martin 05-23-2013, 08:35 AM ...down another 10 cents today. -M
ou48A 05-23-2013, 09:07 AM So essentially you are saying the Oil and NG industry has the country/world economy hostage and nothing we can do about it?
We definitely have replacements already, but there are many taboos around them. Wind and Nuclear could easily move in and start reducing power generation from Oil/Gas products. Of course the big one comes to replacing it in transportation, which we don't have it yet. Once the power grid is able to support it, vehicles can be moved to be mostly electric with in road charging systems (already exists). The solution isn't as easy when it comes to air and sea.
When it comes to (cars) transportation gasoline or NG is the cheapest fuel and therefor brings the most prosperity to man. There really are not any affordable replacement fuels that can meet even a fraction of the demand.
One thing that may hold NG prices somewhat in check is that it cost about $6 on top of the base price to process raw NG into LNG for export and as NG prices raise electrical generators will switch back to coal as some are already doing. Higher prices would mean more drilling increasing the supply and we still have massive untapped NG deposits.
We should be doing more with our nuclear power generation in my view. They say the new designs are far safer.
But one of the biggest problems with nuclear and on many other energy projects is how activist drive up their cost by delaying tactics. This cost each of us money. They can keep a project tied up in our courts for more than 10 or more years…. We need new laws that speed the process along. Even Obama agrees with that thought on some projects.
Certainly where it’s practical we should conserve and look for affordable alternatives. If a cheaper alternative could be found I would be for it since it would advance man’s prosperity and ability’s to conquer other problems.
ou48A 05-23-2013, 03:52 PM Attention Venture79:)
Wow, this author from the green radical publication “The Energy Collective” really gets the reality of renewable energy’s
.
It’s a good read with lots of truth.
Examining the Prejudices of Renewable Energy Zealots | The Energy Collective (http://theenergycollective.com/schalk-cloete/228151/renewable-energy-reality-check)
Larry OKC 05-23-2013, 04:48 PM I suspect 7-11 probably mandated this fixing due to the disaster. They don't want there to be any room for accusations. Just stick to one price for everyone, regardless of market pricing for now. Just my speculation.
Agree. Noticed that none of the other stations had followed 7-11s lead, but would think at some point they will have to to stay competitive. Unless 7-11 is selling it below cost (illegal under Oklahoma law, as nearly all retailers & wholesalers are required to make at least a 6% profit on every item they sell), it will be obvious that the others can follow suit and stop gouging folks (not legally of course).
...down another 10 cents today. -M
Noticed that too and it is encouraging esp with the holiday weekend coming up. granted it isn't back down to the $3.09/gallon it was a month ago, but it is at least going in the right direction.
OKCisOK4me 05-24-2013, 02:20 PM Saw $3.69 at 7 Eleven on NW 39th & Ann Arbor today so its getting closer to where gas was the last time I filled up ($3.55).
Jim Kyle 05-24-2013, 03:36 PM Same price at NW 122 & Council, also Britton Rd and Hefner. That's three consecutive days of dropp[ing ten cents/day...
bluedogok 05-24-2013, 09:33 PM Here in Denver I saw a station with the same price for unleaded and diesel, been a long time since I have seen that. Gas in Louisville was about 20 cents higher yesterday than it was here in Denver.
amandagall5 05-25-2013, 05:39 PM Spent today driving from OKC to Vicksburg MS, the lowest price I saw was 3.19, plenty of places in the 3.20 to 3.30 range.
Larry OKC 05-28-2013, 04:41 PM Paid $3.44 (members price) at the Sams on Memorial & N. Penn, this past Saturday. Went to the Sams on I-40 between Meridian and MacArthur and they were $3.66. Friday after work, noticed two Duos (along 10th, between Portland and MacArthur) @ $3.46 (IIRC), cash only. Thought I found a real bargain at the Murphy/Walmart @ 23rd & MacArthur ($3.26) but the station is closed with no pumps...which I didn't notice as a went inside to put the money on the Walmart GAS CARD...
Anonymous. 05-28-2013, 04:47 PM Filled up another $30 @ 4.19 last night. (Premium)
Refuse to go full tank at these prices!
kelroy55 05-28-2013, 06:26 PM Was in N Dallas again today and paid 3.34 at Circle K
Anonymous. 06-06-2013, 10:26 AM Thread is dead, must mean gas prices are coming down.
Filled up just over $4 for premium the other day.
First full tank in a while.
venture 06-06-2013, 11:28 AM Looks like things are settling some. East side Homeland in Norman, which is pretty high most of the times, is $3.53 for the cheap stuff - though they are also 100% gasoline as well.
GasBuddy has South Carolina the cheapest still at 3.18.
OKC Metro Overall...
http://66.70.86.64/ChartServer/ch.gaschart?Country=Canada&Crude=f&Period=12&Areas=USA%20Average,,&Unit=US%20$/G
Looks like we are back to almost where we were a year ago and have a few weeks until things start going back up.
I don't know why you continue to complain. The gas is theirs, they own it, they can charge whatever they want (emergencies not included of course). Just pay the price if you want to go somewhere.
bluedogok 06-09-2013, 10:57 PM Up here diesel was 13 cents cheaper than unleaded, just a strange sight to see.
SSEiYah 06-10-2013, 01:06 PM $3.34 at Oncue this morning at SW 59th and Western.
Larry OKC 06-10-2013, 02:15 PM the stations near that intersection on along the same price point. I filled up at the Santa Fe Walmart Sat night for $3.31 (prepiad gift card). A co-worker said that a station out on Council & NW 10th was $3.29 last week? But still see prices up there...as much as $3.70 at a station near my apt at NW 50th & Portland
Larry OKC 07-03-2013, 11:46 AM Yesterday, there were 3 stations posted on GasBuddy.com that were under $3/gal ($2.99) I am sure there are more but just not listed. of the 15 lowest posted, all were $3.10 or less. Great news for the holiday weekend.
BBatesokc 07-03-2013, 12:00 PM Heard they may start going back up with the unrest overseas.
SOONER8693 07-03-2013, 01:19 PM There's always unrest "overseas", somewhere.
Jim Kyle 07-03-2013, 02:59 PM Talk about volatile pricing! This morning I topped off the tank on my van, at Sam's on NW Highway, for $3.049/gallon. I came straight home, and went with my wife in her car back to Sam's to top off its tank -- and the price had risen to $3.099 in just half an hour!
Meanwhile the 7-11 near my house is at $3.189, and the 7-11 two miles south of it is at $3.089. All these, BTW, are for unleaded E10.
Larry OKC 07-10-2013, 01:43 PM Jim, not nnice, but that is only a nickel increase. I have seen it happen while I was at the station. Used to be when they got a delivery but now, it is when they get a phone call. And we aren't paying for what we are pumping out of the ground but the possible replacement cost. that is why typically if oil is on an upward trend, gas prices jump up (nickel/dime a gal). But if on a downward trend, they float down (a penny or two at a time). This came from a former Shell oil exec. What other product is priced this way? None that I can think of. Prices are usually determined by a companies set mark-up based on the price they paid sitting on the shelf.
Have always felt that every store in the same geographic area should basically have the same price (7-11. Walmart, whatever). No reason for gas prices (and only gas prices) to be different from one 7-11 to another. Esp if they are on the same street and almost within sight of each other!
Just the facts 07-10-2013, 03:39 PM Gasoline prices go up because the gas station owner has to be able to pay for the next tanker truck load, not the fuel they have in their tanks now. They go down based on competition.
PhiAlpha 07-10-2013, 10:42 PM CNG holding strong at $1.10 avg
Larry OKC 07-11-2013, 01:29 PM JTF: exactly, that is what I said, you are paying for the possible replacement cost. It shouldn't be that way. There should be a law against it.
Just the facts 07-11-2013, 02:57 PM JTF: exactly, that is what I said, you are paying for the possible replacement cost. It shouldn't be that way. There should be a law against it.
How do you expect them to pay for the replacement gasoline if it cost more?
If you open a gas station on the first day your storage tank is empty. You have to buy a tanker full of gasoline to put in it. They don't give you the gasoline for free and then you send them a check AFTER you sell it. You have to pay for the gas before you can sell it to someone else. Then that process repeats every 7 to 10 days as long as you stay in business. If prices increase too fast some stations operating on the fringe can't cover the price increase and go out of business.
bluedogok 07-11-2013, 10:14 PM Most gas stations are independent franchises or franchise groups and most have very thin margins on gasoline, between what they pay the fuel distributor and taxes there isn't that much left. They make the bulk of their profit from the things inside the store.
Larry OKC 07-18-2013, 03:44 PM How do you expect them to pay for the replacement gasoline if it cost more?
What if it doesn't cost more? Do the people that were charged more get a refund? I expect them to pay for it by charging more when they actually get it and sell it. Just like they do with everything else in the store. It used to be that they only changed the prices when they actually got a delivery. Now it can change multiple times during the same day with no delivery. And they should calculate how much of that new delivery is actually in the ground instead of assuming 100% of it is at the higher rate. In other words if the tank is half empty when they get a new delivery, you do your markup of the 50% at the lower rate, and your markup of the 50% at the higher rate and set your price somewhere in the middle.
IIRC, under the decades old Oklahoma law, a retailer or wholesaler can charge no less than a 6% profit on what they sell. However that 6% can be based on the lowest price invoice in the past 30 days. In essence they can still sell stuff as a loss leader even if their price went up. FOr example, if at some point in the last 30 days, the per unit price of the widget was $1, they can't charge less than $1.06. But if the latest shipment comes in and the per unit cost has doubled to $2, if they wanted to, they could still sell it for the $1.06 instead of $2.12.
Plutonic Panda 04-04-2014, 10:01 PM Study: Drivers not changing habits because of higher gas prices | News OK (http://newsok.com/study-drivers-not-changing-habits-because-of-higher-gas-prices/article/3950126)
|
|