My mom is in Flagstaff visiting the sister and her kids and it's $3.59 there.

I guess the answer is, take your vacation outside of Oklahoma this summer!

My mom is in Flagstaff visiting the sister and her kids and it's $3.59 there.

I guess the answer is, take your vacation outside of Oklahoma this summer!

Maybe so……refining is still somewhat a regional industry and when the outage occurs in your region it’s going to impact you more than if it was nearly a half a continent away.

"They" are predicting prices to increase by as much as another 20 cents. Just since my post yesterday that same 7-11 I referred has gone up another 9 cents, topping the $4 mark. That is for non-ethanol fuel. I understand the summer fuel blend excuse it happens every year, as do increases around holidays. I am just miffed at the amount of increase. Seriously, going from 3.29 April 27 to 4.03 May 17 seems excessive to me. Gas in Dallas is 3.29, Little Rock is as low as 3.19, Albuquerque 3.33, Wichita 3.65. Why so high in OK?
Almost a dollar more in Oklahoma than surrounding states, I'm calling BS on any explanation. The "forces" that be have chosen for whatever reason to hose the gas buying public of this state. Should be criminal and treated as such.

I know that when price spikes (large or small) happen, it renews the call for alternative fuels, but the problem with the alternatives is that once you cull away the hype from the reality you find out that there really aren't extensive, practical mass fuel alternatives. When GM solicited battery proposals for their Volt, they received a boatload of great proposals from lots of great green startup-type companies, but guess what - they were all just variations on essentially the same technology.

The explanations behind all of this don't make it down through regular media, because it starts to get into discussions about physics and technology limits that aren't overcome just because a senator or Hollywood type or *insert favorite pundit here* says they should. You have to figure out a way to get X amount of energy from mechanism Y, and right now the closest thing we can get in practical terms are the semi-electric hybrids and CNG vehicles.

Fuel cell technology is extremely promising conceptually, but those implementations are primarily hydrogen based, and no one has quite yet posited a way to roll out a slew of micro H-bombs on the roads bouncing around at 70mph and sometimes hitting each other. Fusion is very intriguing, but practical implementations are still years away (there's an example of a skunkworks project here (http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2013-02/fusion-power-could-happen-sooner-you-think). Fuel cell technology is very intriguing, but its so expensive that its unlikely to get past what are termed "niche" applications. Though I'm loathe to use Wikipedia for a reference for nearly anything, I'll grant myself an exception for what seems to be a pretty decent general article on the subject here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell_vehicle) The point is not to dismiss them, and not that we shouldn't pursue them, but just temper expectations. Reality is often an ugly obstacle.

I remember a lecture back in Engineering school at OU that talked about the maximum available energy from various sources, and how back then the prof was talking about (and this isn't a quote, its a paraphrase) "these are the physics limits we face right now." He was talking about how great it was to consider solar, wind, and all the other forms that are popular to discuss, but the physical limits of those technologies were pretty sobering. Mind you, this transcended politics. This was about how we turn the discussions about alternative energies into something useful, and its a darned sight more difficult than it seems. The battery notion with the Volt is just a contemporary manifestation of that very same notion - at some point, no matter how badly we want an alternative to work, the physics is sometimes the biggest roadblock.

Sorry for the diversion.

You are right Venture. We will just export whatever amount is necessary to keep prices up.

The US has been a net importer of petroleum since WWII (http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mcrntus2&f=a). The recent ramp up in domestic oil production due to fracking, offshore, and waste water wells has only decreased imports. US producers do not have the ability to set oil prices globally.

U.S. exports of gasoline, diesel and other oil-based fuels are soaring, putting the nation on track to be a net exporter of petroleum products in 2011 for the first time in 62 years.

A combination of booming demand from emerging markets and faltering domestic activity means the U.S. is exporting more fuel than it imports, upending the historical norm.

According to data released by the U.S. Energy Information Administration on Tuesday, the U.S. sent abroad 753.4 million barrels of everything from gasoline to jet fuel in the first nine months of this year, while it imported 689.4 million barrels.

That the U.S. is shipping out more fuel than it brings in is significant because the nation has for decades been a voracious energy consumer. It took in huge quantities of not only crude oil from the Middle East but also refined fuels from Europe, Latin America and elsewhere to help run its factories and cars.

As recently as 2005, the U.S. imported nearly 900 million barrels more of petroleum products than it exported. Since then the deficit has been steadily shrinking until finally disappearing last fall, and analysts say the country will not lose its "net exporter" tag anytime soon.

"It looks like a trend that could stay in place for the rest of the decade," said Dave Ernsberger, global director of oil at Platts, which tracks energy markets. "The conventional wisdom is that U.S. is this giant black hole sucking in energy from around the world. This changes that dynamic."

So long as the U.S. remains the world's biggest net importer of crude oil, currently taking in nine million barrels per day, it isn't likely to become energy independent anytime soon. Yet its growing presence as an overall exporter of fuels made from crude gives it greater influence in the global energy market.

U.S. Nears Milestone: Net Fuel Exporter - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203441704577068670488306242.html)

I know that when price spikes (large or small) happen, it renews the call for alternative fuels, but the problem with the alternatives is that once you cull away the hype from the reality you find out that there really aren't extensive, practical mass fuel alternatives. When GM solicited battery proposals for their Volt, they received a boatload of great proposals from lots of great green startup-type companies, but guess what - they were all just variations on essentially the same technology.

The explanations behind all of this don't make it down through regular media, because it starts to get into discussions about physics and technology limits that aren't overcome just because a senator or Hollywood type or *insert favorite pundit here* says they should. You have to figure out a way to get X amount of energy from mechanism Y, and right now the closest thing we can get in practical terms are the semi-electric hybrids and CNG vehicles.

Fuel cell technology is extremely promising conceptually, but those implementations are primarily hydrogen based, and no one has quite yet posited a way to roll out a slew of micro H-bombs on the roads bouncing around at 70mph and sometimes hitting each other. Fusion is very intriguing, but practical implementations are still years away (there's an example of a skunkworks project here (http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2013-02/fusion-power-could-happen-sooner-you-think). Fuel cell technology is very intriguing, but its so expensive that its unlikely to get past what are termed "niche" applications. Though I'm loathe to use Wikipedia for a reference for nearly anything, I'll grant myself an exception for what seems to be a pretty decent general article on the subject here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell_vehicle) The point is not to dismiss them, and not that we shouldn't pursue them, but just temper expectations. Reality is often an ugly obstacle.

I remember a lecture back in Engineering school at OU that talked about the maximum available energy from various sources, and how back then the prof was talking about (and this isn't a quote, its a paraphrase) "these are the physics limits we face right now." He was talking about how great it was to consider solar, wind, and all the other forms that are popular to discuss, but the physical limits of those technologies were pretty sobering. Mind you, this transcended politics. This was about how we turn the discussions about alternative energies into something useful, and its a darned sight more difficult than it seems. The battery notion with the Volt is just a contemporary manifestation of that very same notion - at some point, no matter how badly we want an alternative to work, the physics is sometimes the biggest roadblock.
Sorry for the diversion.

Very good post…. particularly the bolded part.
As you indicate it’s the physics that are the biggest roadblock no matter hard we wish or hope

The reporter in the video you linked to gave a legitimate reason for the conflicting numbers. Environmentally conscious fuel consumers like those in Europe are electing to import the refined products rather than doing their own refining. Probably because of the environmentally hazardous byproducts of refining operations. The US will not become a net crude exporter in the foreseeable future.

We will just export whatever amount is necessary to keep prices up.

If we are paying global prices in a global economy why shouldn’t they be allowed to export their products?

What do I pay for in a gallon of regular gasoline? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) (http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=22&t=6)

The national average retail price of a gallon of regular gasoline in March 2013 was $3.71. The four main components of the retail price and approximate shares of the total price were:

1.Crude Oil: 63%. The cost of crude oil as a share of the retail price varies over time and among regions of the country. Refiners paid an average of about $98.00 per barrel of crude oil, or about $2.34 per gallon, in March 2013.
2.Refining Costs and Profits: 16%
3.Distribution, Marketing, and Retail Costs and Profits: 10%
4.Taxes: 11%. Federal excise taxes were 18.4 cents per gallon and state excise taxes averaged 23.47 cents per gallon

The reporter in the video you linked to gave a legitimate reason for the conflicting numbers. Environmentally conscious fuel consumers like those in Europe are electing to import the refined products rather than doing their own refining. Probably because of the environmentally hazardous byproducts of refining operations. The US will not become a net crude exporter in the foreseeable future.

There are no conflicting numbers. Crude oil imports and exports are a sub set of petroleum products imports and exports. We net export petroleum products. Any way you want to look at it, we don't import or produce one barrel of oil, crack it and export two barrels of products from that one barrel of oil. Assume we import 5 barrels or crude and produce 5 barrels of crude. We crack that and export 6 barrels of gasoline, diesel and other products. We net imported crude since we didn't export any of it but we net exported products because we shipped out more barrels than we shipped in.


The US will not become a net crude exporter in the foreseeable future.

Which may or may not be irrelevant depending on what the argument is, pollution, oil consumption or other, since crude imports and export totals don't take into account how much crude we cracked and shipped out.

OU48 spoke once about exporting crude and products, at other times about crude but I believe his point was we export oil and oil products and will continue to do so more and more if we switched to NG. Personally, I think as a matter of natural interest, security and pollution control, we should move to other alternatives for our own use and limit oil products exports. Keep the resources here to secure our economy, energy and oil product needs in the future. Don't take on the pollution for other countries.

Not only that, we heavily subsidise oil, thus when we ship it out, we heavily subsidise oil in the countries we ship it to. That's beyond stupid.

There are no conflicting numbers. Crude oil imports and exports are a sub set of petroleum products imports and exports.
Nope. The process of refining is what makes petroleum products petroleum products. Crude oil is not a petroleum product. I agree that we shouldn't be refining Europe's oil. Just another example of oil companies not being forced to account for environmental costs.

Okay. I'll let OU48 make his own argument but it seems to be essentially the same...the more we switch to NG, the more oil products we have to export and the more power we have in the both the crude market and oil products market.

My opinion is the same though, NG can be a transition and some help to ease dependence on oil but our primary focus needs to be on moving as much of our needs as we can to electric, natural gas and wind generated now and whatever we can do to move beyond that as fast as possible in the future. And as I said, we need to stop the oil companies from taking profits by letting the world crap their pollution on us and we need to keep as much of the resources at home as possible to drive down domestic prices and secure our future needs.

that sounds good in theory, but since fuel prices affect the whole supply chain and therefore affect the price of pretty much anything you buy, you're affected whether you personally use or not. -M

Would you please refrain from making statements like that that make too much sense to be believed or tolerated?
(j/k . . . =)

It's almost like slapping up a bumper sticker with something along the lines of
"Everything You Ever Owned Came By Truck
Including Your Bicycle"

Did I say "bumpersticker"? Sorry . . . it implies bias.

(jsyk: Even the thought of $4.00 a gallon gas totally sucks in an unjustifiable manner.)

Anybody else notice that traffic isn't any lighter despite the higher gas costs?

Anybody else notice that traffic isn't any lighter despite the higher gas costs?

Hadn't noticed. After a there and back again run to Mobile for elder son's graduation late last week and weekend, I haven't had much interest in being in a car this week (pricing changes arose after I got back and enjoyed hermit status.)

If we are paying global prices in a global economy why shouldn’t they be allowed to export their products?

They should be able to. I just prefer that we work to make the product obsolete. I agree that we will never have an alternative fuels economy. We either live with oil, and all the pros and cons that come with it, or we rescale our built environment to humans, and not machines with humans in them.

They should be able to. I just prefer that we work to make the product obsolete. I agree that we will never have an alternative fuels economy. We either live with oil, and all the pros and cons that come with it, or we rescale our built environment to humans, and not machines with humans in them.

Music by which to meditate
on Skyrocketing Gas Prices
While awaiting with wonder
approaching Tornadoes . . .
rPfEgQPpIRc
did I say "tornadoes"? i meant Toronados. sorry . . .

current prices are a problem due to a refinery that is having trouble... we are almost as high as CA:

http://i.imgur.com/bbm2UaY.jpg (http://imgur.com/bbm2UaY)

Nm

If we are paying global prices in a global economy why shouldn’t they be allowed to export their products?

So then isn't "energy independence" nothing but a load of horse crap? I mean if we are going to forever linked to the global economy, then the actions of others countries will also impact our gas/oil needs and prices. If we were truly trying to get energy independent wouldn't that entail dumping oil and gas as the primary fuel for our economy?

Energy independence is a marketing slogan created by the o&g industry PR and marketing departments. It serves two main purposes. It is an emotional appeal to people's patriotism and plays on their fears of oil client states in the mid-east. And it is designed to reinforce complacency among would be activists and critics who would be in favor of aggressive public investment in renewable energies if they knew the truth.

Gas prices are very market specific, much of the time it is dependent upon how many distributors there are in a specific market. Gas in Austin was almost always 7-10 cents more expensive than in the San Antonio area. The prices here in Denver were between 3.35-2.45 just two weeks ago and now around 3.75 that last time that I got gas last week. When you get out in the smaller towns of the Central Texas Hill Country or the mountains here it can be from 15-40 cents higher than in the cities like Austin or Denver.

4.30-4.40 here in Minneapolis. Brutal.

Can sit and piss and moan about it - or just go on with life. I pick the second :)

4.30-4.40 here in Minneapolis. Brutal.

Can sit and piss and moan about it - or just go on with life. I pick the second :)

Just seems kinda fishy that everytime a holiday come up gas prices go up and everytime a prez election rolls around gas prices go down.

Just seems kinda fishy that everytime a holiday come up gas prices go up and everytime a prez election rolls around gas prices go down.

Tell that to the locals who were so PO'd about Lake Hefner being closed--after being filled for a movie shoot--that they made up their minds to drive to Canton Lake to fish in honor of Memorial Independence Day.

The B.S. this time is that several local refineries are having issues at the same time, reducing the inventory to days instead of the normal 22 or something. So supply/demand on that one. But don't we think we should come up with a way to keep multiple refineries from being down at the same time? That's the same crap that caused the first spike several years ago. More than one was allowed offline for more than a year. There should be some coordination between them to keep the market from taking such a hit.

Yesterday, for the first time in my life, I paid over $4.00 per gallon for gasoline.
How long will we be plagued by the legacy of George W. Bush?! (j/k)

The B.S. this time is that several local refineries are having issues at the same time, reducing the inventory to days instead of the normal 22 or something. So supply/demand on that one. But don't we think we should come up with a way to keep multiple refineries from being down at the same time? That's the same crap that caused the first spike several years ago. More than one was allowed offline for more than a year. There should be some coordination between them to keep the market from taking such a hit.

When you have a government that lets the nation be so impacted by environmental activists that a new refinery hasn’t been built in about 35 years you’re going to have bigger imbalances in the system, less margin for supply disruptions and less competition.
That’s just basic common sense.

But fuel usage peaked in 2005 and has been going down every sense. Are we exporting gasoline?

On edit, I checked and yes we are exporting a record amount of gasoline, so won't extra refining capacity just be exported?

But fuel usage peaked in 2005 and has been going down every sense. Are we exporting gasoline?

On edit, I checked and yes we are exporting a record amount of gasoline, so won't extra refining capacity just be exported?

Where are the refineries located that export most of the refined products?

Because there is very limited shipping capacity they can only ship limited gasoline supplies into the areas where the current refinery outage are and much of what gets shipped is shipped by slow barges up the Mississippi river…..

Yesterday, for the first time in my life, I paid over $4.00 per gallon for gasoline.
How long will we be plagued by the legacy of George W. Bush?! (j/k)

As opposed to the legacy of obama ...Your joking, ..... Right?

As opposed to the legacy of obama ...Your joking, ..... Right?

Yes. I thought that j/k was CyberEsperanto for "just kidding" . . .
Speaking of refineries . . . Oklahoma used to have refineries at Wynnewood, Cyril, Ardmore and Cushing.
Maybe others too. Perhaps Ponca City. But they were pretty old even thirty years ago and may not have refined gasoline.
(i hauled oil for asphalt paving mix from three of the five mentioned)

Oklahoma has five operating petroleum refineries with a combined daily capacity of more than 500,000 barrels per day, about 3 percent of the total U.S. operating capacity.

• ConocoPhillips Co., Ponca City: 198,400 barrels per day

• Holly Refining and Marketing Co., Tulsa (East): 70,300 barrels per day

• Holly Refining and Marketing Co., Tulsa (West): 85,000 barrels per day

• Valero Refining Co. Oklahoma, Ardmore: 85,000 barrels per day

• Wynnewood Refining Co., Wynnewood: 70,000 barrels per day

Source: U.S. Energy Information Administration

Yesterday, for the first time in my life, I paid over $4.00 per gallon for gasoline.
How long will we be plagued by the legacy of George W. Bush?! (j/k)

It must be Bush's fault !!!

Oklahoma has five operating petroleum refineries with a combined daily capacity of more than 500,000 barrels per day, about 3 percent of the total U.S. operating capacity.

• ConocoPhillips Co., Ponca City: 198,400 barrels per day

• Holly Refining and Marketing Co., Tulsa (East): 70,300 barrels per day

• Holly Refining and Marketing Co., Tulsa (West): 85,000 barrels per day

• Valero Refining Co. Oklahoma, Ardmore: 85,000 barrels per day

• Wynnewood Refining Co., Wynnewood: 70,000 barrels per day

Source: U.S. Energy Information Administration

Great information. Two questions:
Q1: Are these refineries producing gasoline for local consumption in Oklahoma?
Q2: What is their current production as a percentage of either recent production or total capacity?

Yes. I thought that j/k was CyberEsperanto for "just kidding" . . .
Speaking of refineries . . . Oklahoma used to have refineries at Wynnewood, Cyril, Ardmore and Cushing.
Maybe others too. Perhaps Ponca City. But they were pretty old even thirty years ago and may not have refined gasoline.
(i hauled oil for asphalt paving mix from three of the five mentioned)


Yeah,... I don't spend enough time in cyber world to know all of the langueese, or textspeak as it were ...... Carry on.

Also a refinery in Thomas -

Ventura Refining and Transmission, Ventura R. & T. Thomas 14,000 bbl/d (2,200 m3/d)

Also a refinery in Thomas -

Ventura Refining and Transmission, Ventura R. & T. Thomas 14,000 bbl/d (2,200 m3/d)

You’re correct, I forgot about that one…..and I have driven by it many times too!

Great information. Two questions:
Q1: Are these refineries producing gasoline for local consumption in Oklahoma?
Q2: What is their current production as a percentage of either recent production or total capacity?

I was always under the impression that refineries provided their product to the nearest stations, regardless of branding. From a business perspective, it only makes sense for Oklahoma refineries to sell their product without incurring shipping costs as much as possible.

Put 30 bucks in yesterday. Trying to hedge against the prices going lower soon and give me enough gas for about half a tank. I paid around $4.50 gallon for premium.

Put 30 bucks in yesterday. Trying to hedge against the prices going lower soon and give me enough gas for about half a tank. I paid around $4.50 gallon for premium.

It might be time to implement dollar cost averaging. Buy the same dollar amount every 7 days. In weeks where you run low (because of higher prices) cut back on driving until gas day.

Where's that commuter line when you need it.....

fwiw, the place closest to my house is down a dime from what it was a few days ago. -M

Where's that commuter line when you need it.....

It is still 10 years out.

When you have a government that lets the nation be so impacted by environmental activists that a new refinery hasn’t been built in about 35 years you’re going to have bigger imbalances in the system, less margin for supply disruptions and less competition.

It's not unheard of for the oil industry to stage their own protests and rallies, in which they bus in employees (link) (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/business/energy-environment/19climate.html?_r=0). In fact there was a memo leaked from the API (http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/publications/reports/oil-memo/), the main oil lobbyist group, that describes how and why to set up these staged protests.

I want to hear all the liberals praising the administration for the high gas prices pushing us closer to alternative energy.

I want to hear all the liberals praising the administration for the high gas prices pushing us closer to alternative energy.


:dance::pink_elep

There. Feel better? No?
:pat_head:
How 'bout now?

fwiw, the place closest to my house is down a dime from what it was a few days ago. -MThe 7-11 nearest my house (NW 122 and Council) dropped its price by ten cents between 10 a.m. and 6 p.m. yesterday. Still high, but I like the direction it moved...

I want to hear all the liberals praising the administration for the high gas prices pushing us closer to alternative energy.

Need some cheese with that whine?

It's not unheard of for the oil industry to stage their own protests and rallies, in which they bus in employees (link) (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/business/energy-environment/19climate.html?_r=0). In fact there was a memo leaked from the API (http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/publications/reports/oil-memo/), the main oil lobbyist group, that describes how and why to set up these staged protests.

For every incident like that there are probably a thousand coming from the radical environmentalist.
Some of which are the type that burn down big homes and vehicles in the name of the environment or it could be the type that keep projects tied up in our legal system for more than a decade driving up the associated cost of many projects that only lowers your/our standards of living by making you/us pay more for needed products and services. This drives jobs to more friendly business countries costing us even more.

Need some cheese with that whine?

It is a FACT that (can be seen on youtube) that the leader of this administration has indicated that he wants higher electrical rates and higher gasoline prices. No amount of spin by you or by anyone else can ever change or excuse this fact of history.

In some case there were other factors but please know that 10 of our past 11 economic recessions were first preceded by rising oil prices. To want high energy prices is tantamount to wishing suffering on the people and those are the thoughts and wishes of stupid crazy people whose opinions are pretty worthless and a waste of time!

So the answer is simple. Defeat Obama by not using gasoline. Adopt a lifestyle that removes gasoline, or any other fuel, from being used against you. Remember when Coach Red Beaulieu neutralized the Waterboy by refusing to play offense.

When you have a government that lets the nation be so impacted by environmental activists that a new refinery hasn’t been built in about 35 years you’re going to have bigger imbalances in the system, less margin for supply disruptions and less competition.
That’s just basic common sense.

Umm. Permit was signed by the Administration this past year for a new refinery in North Dakota. So things are moving to allow them again.


It is a FACT that (can be seen on youtube) that the leader of this administration has indicated that he wants higher electrical rates and higher gasoline prices. No amount of spin by you or by anyone else can ever change or excuse this fact of history.

In some case there were other factors but please know that 10 of our past 11 economic recessions were first preceded by rising oil prices. To want high energy prices is tantamount to wishing suffering on the people and those are the thoughts and wishes of stupid crazy people whose opinions are pretty worthless and a waste of time!

Interesting news article today in the Oklahoman about demands from the NG industry wanting more permits to start exporting as much liquid natural gas as possible because the prices are much higher on the international market. Which then leads us back down the road of oil prices being high because of the global market you defend. So I guess it is only a matter of time until the NG prices equalize and the cost savings from NG goes up in smoke.


So the answer is simple. Defeat Obama by not using gasoline. Adopt a lifestyle that removes gasoline, or any other fuel, from being used against you. Remember when Coach Red Beaulieu neutralized the Waterboy by refusing to play offense.

That would be all too easy and would hurt this Oil/NG buddies. I definitely respect your position on this considering you work in the industry I believe, yet are free thinking still to know we do have to make changes.

It is a FACT that (can be seen on youtube) that the leader of this administration has indicated that he wants higher electrical rates and higher gasoline prices. No amount of spin by you or by anyone else can ever change or excuse this fact of history.

In some case there were other factors but please know that 10 of our past 11 economic recessions were first preceded by rising oil prices. To want high energy prices is tantamount to wishing suffering on the people and those are the thoughts and wishes of stupid crazy people whose opinions are pretty worthless and a waste of time!


https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTQ06wOHWa92pHS_EimTtRkot3CgznDk IAPJkeWKHoBOK4JDfav

It is a FACT that (can be seen on youtube) that the leader of this administration has indicated that he wants higher electrical rates and higher gasoline prices. No amount of spin by you or by anyone else can ever change or excuse this fact of history.

In some case there were other factors but please know that 10 of our past 11 economic recessions were first preceded by rising oil prices. To want high energy prices is tantamount to wishing suffering on the people and those are the thoughts and wishes of stupid crazy people whose opinions are pretty worthless and a waste of time!

Aren't you the guy calling for higher natural gas prices in other threads? Which way is it, the suffering of the people or the energy industry? Please make up your mind.

Aren't you the guy calling for higher natural gas prices in other threads? Which way is it, the suffering of the people or the energy industry? Please make up your mind.

It’s really pretty simple.

You don’t what prices so high that they hurt the people….but you don’t want prices so low that they hurt the industry or they will stop drilling and set the stage for future price spikes that will hurt the people.
I have seen this cycle several times.

Higher NG prices? The code word for that is "rebound". Also, I don't work in the fuels industry at all. In fact, I try to use those products as little as I can.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTQ06wOHWa92pHS_EimTtRkot3CgznDk IAPJkeWKHoBOK4JDfav

A real intellectual and educated response.LOL