Sometimes I am not sure we urbanist are up to the task. With regards to the general population the learning curve is just too steep and there are too many people behind it.

Despite complaints, problems persist with troubled apartment complexes in Oklahoma City | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-is-dotted-with-troubled-apartment-complexes/article/3806590)


Seven apartment complexes in Oklahoma City have an unenviable record of code violations, complaints and overdue property tax bills.

...

Dianna Ewing and her husband formed the Council Oaks Neighborhood Association after watching their neighborhood, where they have lived for 22 years, go downhill

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“They want to spend all that money downtown, but not on us,” Ewing said.

How do we make these people understand that low density sprawl is the problem and it was created by spending public money on it in the first place? Downtown, and downtown adjacent, development is the solution. There simply isn't enough money to 'fix' suburbia.

The property on 37th and Penn is kind of an interesting story. The builder built it with the intention of it actually taking up the whole area with parking in the back. Once he realized the rent was not going to be high enough for him to break even on selling it, he stopped construction and planned on selling it to get out from under it. Apprently there is $300K-$400K in work to get the apartments up and running including all the plumbing, electrical, finishes and parking. He was trying to sell it at what he owes, but no one would buy it for that since there was so much work to be done on it. So, instead of selling it and taking a loss, he just continues to make a ridiculous monthly payment and the property continues to fall into disrepair.

Sometimes I am not sure we urbanist are up to the task. With regards to the general population the learning curve is just too steep and there are too many people behind it.

Despite complaints, problems persist with troubled apartment complexes in Oklahoma City | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-is-dotted-with-troubled-apartment-complexes/article/3806590)



How do we make these people understand that low density sprawl is the problem and it was created by spending public money on it in the first place? Downtown, and downtown adjacent, development is the solution. There simply isn't enough money to 'fix' suburbia.


That's interesting considering it took a LOT of public money to help revive the downtown area.

I wish something would be done about the apartment complexes at 122nd and Penn. They greatly drag down an otherwise great part of town.

That's interesting considering it took a LOT of public money to help revive the downtown area.

Any public money used on downtown revitalization PALES in comparision to the money spent developing interstate-grade highways for intracity driving, permitting development to sprawl farther and farther out from the urban core....

To add to Easternobserver's comments, private development has already repaid all the public money used to redevelop downtown and the area is running in the black. In other words, the tax revenue collected from downtown property owners more than funds the public cost of maintaining downtown infrastructure.

Any public money used on downtown revitalization PALES in comparision to the money spent developing interstate-grade highways for intracity driving, permitting development to sprawl farther and farther out from the urban core....

Great cities will have attractive downtowns and attractive suburbs. There are numerous reasons someone may choose to live in the suburbs rather than downtown, especially families.

How do we make these people understand that low density sprawl is the problem and it was created by spending public money on it in the first place? Downtown, and downtown adjacent, development is the solution. There simply isn't enough money to 'fix' suburbia.

That's interesting considering it took a LOT of public money to help revive the downtown area.

Any public money used on downtown revitalization PALES in comparision to the money spent developing interstate-grade highways for intracity driving, permitting development to sprawl farther and farther out from the urban core....
True -- spending that never makes the media splash that MAPS and P180 makes is much greater than the downtown revitalizing spending, but I think that there's another couple of facts that need to be taken into account and promulgated somewhat educationally. 1) it's one of the tenets of capitalism that builds cities best (IMO) that failure isn't always a bad thing (unless your the poor bastard that sunk money into the failure and won't learn a lesson from it). 2) the CBD is more than just the rising tide that lifts all boats. The CBD rising tide has a much greater effect than the Warr Acres rising tide (with the new shopping center talk, there) or even the Crossroads rising tide. The CBD rising tide has a much farther reach than success in, say, Del City, Norman, or Edmond.

Although I agree that development in the DT area has a much bigger impact, I think this has very little to do with DT development and more to do with toothless state laws that really hamstring any municipality's' efforts to clean up stuff like this. We have a state constitution that hasn't been updated in decades, a legislature that is completely detached from any sort of reality, and a governor who is too weak to corral them even if she wanted to. As fas as I'm concerned the city is on its own.

The best thing the city can do in the short term is step up patrols and safety and health inspections to these areas to keep them from going completely nuts. In the long term, the city needs to start reviewing what and where apts get built. FWIW there are plenty of well maintained apartment complexes in this city, so it can be done.

O' boy, here we go again. lol. . . How long has these threads been going on for? I know at least since I've joined I've seen them over and over. ;P

The property on 37th and Penn is kind of an interesting story. The builder built it with the intention of it actually taking up the whole area with parking in the back. Once he realized the rent was not going to be high enough for him to break even on selling it, he stopped construction and planned on selling it to get out from under it. Apprently there is $300K-$400K in work to get the apartments up and running including all the plumbing, electrical, finishes and parking. He was trying to sell it at what he owes, but no one would buy it for that since there was so much work to be done on it. So, instead of selling it and taking a loss, he just continues to make a ridiculous monthly payment and the property continues to fall into disrepair.

Yes, the owner is not very bright it appears and certainly doesnt know when to cut his losses. He has had it for sale forever now, even had an auction that failed to hit his reserve I guess, and lets it continue to fall into more disrepair making it even less valuable. Nothing has been done inside so you have still have to finish out the interior and add parking lot, fencing, landscaping. No one is going to be paying him much when there is still a siginificant amount of money itll take to finish.

But here the owner is, waiting on some mystical figure to pay him a bunch of money for a half complete apartment...what a joke.

Great cities will have attractive downtowns and attractive suburbs. There are numerous reasons someone may choose to live in the suburbs rather than downtown, especially families.

I agree that OKC needs attractive suburbs...and it has them: Norman, Edmond, Yukon, Moore, and Mustang are all pretty nice suburbs.

That being said...OKC ought not be a suburb of itself...but until we unload some of our 621.2 square miles of land, or enforce more responsible development policies further from the core, the "suburbs" will (rightly) continue to struggle. And unfortunately, there are several areas that I think are lost causes and will just have to deal with their own issues. The very local communities and private sector can be responsible for fixing areas like NW 10th, 30th/Penn, SW 29th, 122nd/Penn.

As far as suburban OKC goes, the city needs to focus on maintaining and bettering the corridors of NW Expressway, I-240, Memorial, and I-35. Everything else is on the businesses and residents of the area.

I agree that OKC needs attractive suburbs...and it has them: Norman, Edmond, Yukon, Moore, and Mustang are all pretty nice suburbs.


And truth be told, those towns/cities shouldn't be OKC suburbs either. They should be their own urban centers and not some place OKC workers go to sleep.

And truth be told, those towns/cities shouldn't be OKC suburbs either. They should be their own urban centers and not some place OKC workers go to sleep.

That's a little bit too reduced and rigid for me, but to each his own.

O' boy, here we go again. lol. . . How long has these threads been going on for? I know at least since I've joined I've seen them over and over. ;P

Sadly that just means these problems aren't being addressed.

Money spent downtown has a greater effect than money spent elsewhere, at least in OKC's current position. It's bigger and more visible than suburban spending. We don't get the Thunder if we spend MAPS money in Del City. This is not to say that we shouldn't spend money on suburbs or on improving the rest of the city, but clearly spending money to fix up crappy apartment complexes wouldn't have the same effect as improvements to the river.

The city should have more options to tear down crappy apartments like these. While there will always be a need for low cost housing, when you get absentee owners who operate as slum-lords, you severely drag down the quality of the neighborhood and depress property values. We should structure our city code for the benefit of the people who live there, not out of state people who see us as a way to make a quick buck.

That's a little bit too reduced and rigid for me, but to each his own.

We are never going to reach JTF's urban paradise. He goes pretty far sometimes with how he wants the city to be built. I'm not saying I agree with everything he says, but we could develop the city his way for 20 years and still have huge suburban bedroom communities. We aren't in any danger of running out of suburbs.