Im not sure how we cant be one of the higher ranking homo-phobic states. Oklahoma isnt exactly known as a progessive, intolorant state. And this is the state that has continued to re-elect Sally "gays are a bigger threat than terrorism" Kern. I know no one wants to talk bad about their state but lets get real.

Yeeeeah, Oklahoma isn't going to live that down. I've actually been surprised at how liberal Cleveland is; Northern Ohio is about 80% democratic and the skyline lights cycle through a rainbow lighting scheme. This photo will appear on brochures for the 2014 Gay Games that Cleveland is hosting:

http://gaygames.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/terminal2.jpg
And yet Oklahoma City's only lighting scheme is...crosses

C'mon. Nothing against crosses, religion, or my hometown. But it is the land of Sally Kern...

Love the crosses, but then, I'm not ashamed of the tradition or begrudge the comfort people might take from the symbol. And I'm not even Christian. Crazy world when crosses on buildings are twisted into signs of hatred and ignorance. Just religious intolerance, straight up - some people just have to stamp out signs of faiths they don't accept. BTW, you haven't seen crosses until you visit areas with large immigrant populations. Like NYC, for example. Hmmm. Does that mean we should call them all a bunch of ignorant yahoos? Less enlightened?
Cleveland as a role model. Yeah, that's what we want...

The subtext here is of course the turf war going on in the 23rd and Broadway area. You have the Paseo yuppie crowd and the rockabilly (to be kind) crowd. Your not going to make this into a thing by catering to the out of towner rockabillies. If its going to be a thing its going to have to embrace gays. Like the Paseo did, like Deep Deuce does, etc. If people wanted a monoculture they can just move to Mustang. You can't have a cool urban district that is a monoculture.

Yeeeeah, Oklahoma isn't going to live that down. I've actually been surprised at how liberal Cleveland is; Northern Ohio is about 80% democratic and the skyline lights cycle through a rainbow lighting scheme. This photo will appear on brochures for the 2014 Gay Games that Cleveland is hosting:

http://gaygames.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/terminal2.jpg
And yet Oklahoma City's only lighting scheme is...crosses

C'mon. Nothing against crosses, religion, or my hometown. But it is the land of Sally Kern...

Wow, of ALL of Oklahoma City's lighting schemes you single out and attack the cross. Forget the lighting scheme on the First National Tower for breast cancer awareness month, the brand new lighting scheme for the Thunder (among a myriad of future potential lighting schemes on the Devon Tower), or the red and green holiday lighting scheme, again, on the First National Tower.

And the land of Sally Kern??? How many times to I need to explain that she doesn't represent Oklahoma City or the state as a whole, JUST HER LOCAL HOUSE DISTRICT!

The bus just went thump-thump and OKC is flat on the pavement. My goodness.

Wow, of ALL of Oklahoma City's lighting schemes you single out and attack the cross. Forget the lighting scheme on the First National Tower for breast cancer awareness month, the brand new lighting scheme for the Thunder (among a myriad of future potential lighting schemes on the Devon Tower), or the red and green holiday lighting scheme, again, on the First National Tower.

And the land of Sally Kern??? How many times to I need to explain that she doesn't represent Oklahoma City or the state as a whole, JUST HER LOCAL HOUSE DISTRICT!

The bus just went thump-thump and OKC is flat on the pavement. My goodness.

I don't think the point is that the crosses in December are a bad thing. The point is that I don't think we'll see the Devon tower's LEDs go rainbow for gay pride any time soon. That isn't necessarily a bad thing in itself as I think it should be all or nothing in terms of special interest groups getting lighting schemes in the skyline, with the exception of the Thunder. OKC's skyline belongs to everyone in this city.

California, that bastion of liberalism, passed Proposition 8 and outlawed gay marriage. Politicians saying bad things about gay people is hardly an Oklahoma-only phenomenon. Bad as Sally Kern is, you can find hundreds of other politicians across the country who have said similar things. Nationally she's a nobody.

Wow, of ALL of Oklahoma City's lighting schemes you single out and attack the cross. Forget the lighting scheme on the First National Tower for breast cancer awareness month, the brand new lighting scheme for the Thunder (among a myriad of future potential lighting schemes on the Devon Tower), or the red and green holiday lighting scheme, again, on the First National Tower.

And the land of Sally Kern??? How many times to I need to explain that she doesn't represent Oklahoma City or the state as a whole, JUST HER LOCAL HOUSE DISTRICT!

The bus just went thump-thump and OKC is flat on the pavement. My goodness.

Sally of course doesn't represent the whole state but the lack of widespread outcry from others Representatives in her party when she made these statements was alarming.

Anyways, here are the thoughts of 3 other Reps. from different areas of the state. It also should be noted that they are he 3 youngest republicans in the house. I say noted because young people nationwide are are overwhelmingly in favor of gay marriage rights. Not saying Okies aren't nice folks, but to say we are welcoming of gays is a stretch.

Young Oklahoma Republican lawmakers: Sanctity of marriage must endure | News OK (http://newsok.com/young-oklahoma-republican-lawmakers-sanctity-of-marriage-must-endure/article/3781472)

California, that bastion of liberalism, passed Proposition 8 and outlawed gay marriage. Politicians saying bad things about gay people is hardly an Oklahoma-only phenomenon. Bad as Sally Kern is, you can find hundreds of other politicians across the country who have said similar things. Nationally she's a nobody.

The Mormon church dropping over $20 million on the prop 8 campaign helped quite a bit with its passing

Sally of course doesn't represent the whole state but the lack of widespread outcry from others Representatives in her party when she made these statements was alarming.

Anyways, here are the thoughts of 3 other Reps. from different areas of the state. It also should be noted that they are he 3 youngest republicans in the house. I say noted because young people nationwide are are overwhelmingly in favor of gay marriage rights. Not saying Okies aren't nice folks, but to say we are welcoming of gays is a stretch.

Young Oklahoma Republican lawmakers: Sanctity of marriage must endure | News OK (http://newsok.com/young-oklahoma-republican-lawmakers-sanctity-of-marriage-must-endure/article/3781472)

Do you think this would happen in conservative Oklahoma like it did in liberal France if gay marriage was legalized here? I think not.

French protest against gay marriage turns violent | News OK (http://newsok.com/french-protest-against-gay-marriage-turns-violent/article/feed/531419)

OK if you want to argue over little details I will point out the detail that your post wasn't angry, and the other 4 people who said it could happen anywhere came off as angry. However you posted later that people shouldn't run for greener pastures, which can lead to a slippery slope of blaming the victims.

How was my post angry? I just said bigotry doesn't stop at the Mason Dixon line.

Yep very ignorant statement, I've seen this behavior just as much if not more in Northern cities. Bigotry and hate will always exist everywhere. That's as ignorant as the current regime stating "assault" rifles cause assaults, when in reality rifles are only used in 4% of ALL GUN Crimes and semi auto (mislabeled as Assault) rifles are used in only .003% of all gun crimes.

TRYING TO AVOID BEING POLITICAL HERE, but that is not an accurate description of the intent of the current administration's thinking regarding assault rifles.

The state didn't re-elect her, her local district in Warr Acres re-elected her. That's a vast difference. She wouldn't stand a chance in MidTown.

True, but she would win handily in hundreds of other districts throughout the state.

Sally of course doesn't represent the whole state but the lack of widespread outcry from others Representatives in her party when she made these statements was alarming.

Anyways, here are the thoughts of 3 other Reps. from different areas of the state. It also should be noted that they are he 3 youngest republicans in the house. I say noted because young people nationwide are are overwhelmingly in favor of gay marriage rights. Not saying Okies aren't nice folks, but to say we are welcoming of gays is a stretch.

Young Oklahoma Republican lawmakers: Sanctity of marriage must endure | News OK (http://newsok.com/young-oklahoma-republican-lawmakers-sanctity-of-marriage-must-endure/article/3781472)

Great point. Mary Fallin even had photo ops with her.

adaniel: not disagreeing with your response to my post...I was simply detailing some of our history that those that I was responding to seem to have forgotten

Do you think this would happen in conservative Oklahoma like it did in liberal France if gay marriage was legalized here? I think not.

French protest against gay marriage turns violent | News OK (http://newsok.com/french-protest-against-gay-marriage-turns-violent/article/feed/531419)

Why you think not? Because Oklahoma's adjustment to doing away with Jim Crow laws was considerably less violent than in some of the Southern states? Though I've seen a few people turn red and get very emotionally upset over the possibility of legalizing same sex marriage in Oklahoma, that would be my reason. And also legalizing gay marriage in the blue states came to be without violent demonstrations against it. Apparently, a noticeable number of people in France don't have this live and let live philosophy down pat.

Since Oklahoma eventually got casinos, lotteries, and tattoo application legalized after it seemed hopeless to do so during the 1990s, surely legalizing gay marriage can't be too much to hope for within 10-20 years.

And yet Oklahoma City's only lighting scheme is...crosses

C'mon. Nothing against crosses, religion, or my hometown. But it is the land of Sally Kern...

I think Chesapeake's lighting theme is more impressive than big lit up crosses downtown. Meanwhile, no one thinks this is the land of Al McAffrey, even though he is Oklahoma's first openly gay senator, who won his district by a big margin, similar in size of Sally Kern's reelection win. Interestingly, while Kern sought headlines for being anti-gay, Sen. McAffrey is almost never in the news for promoting something pro-gay.

Why you think not? Because Oklahoma's adjustment to doing away with Jim Crow laws was considerably less violent than in some of the Southern states? Though I've seen a few people turn red and get very emotionally upset over the possibility of legalizing same sex marriage in Oklahoma, that would be my reason. And also legalizing gay marriage in the blue states came to be without violent demonstrations against it. Apparently, a noticeable number of people in France don't have this live and let live philosophy down pat.

Since Oklahoma eventually got casinos, lotteries, and tattoo application legalized after it seemed hopeless to do so during the 1990s, surely legalizing gay marriage can't be too much to hope for within 10-20 years.

You answered your own question. Oklahoma can have some idiotic protests but they are not likely to turn violent.

Anti-Gay Rhetoric Mars Two State Senate Primaries | New York Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2012/09/anti-gay-rhetoric-mars-two-state-senate-primaries)

Hold on a second, this is the second link I've posted showing this sort of thing happening in New York, bastion of liberalism. How am I finding these articles? Do I have access to some alternate-universe version of the internet? I thought only Oklahoma and other red states had things like this happen. That's what you said right? Can someone please explain this to me? I'm just a poor homophobic okie who probably is typing on this dern compu-tater wrong.

Or it might be that this crap happens everywhere. That might be it too.

Anti-Gay Rhetoric Mars Two State Senate Primaries | New York Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2012/09/anti-gay-rhetoric-mars-two-state-senate-primaries)

Hold on a second, this is the second link I've posted showing this sort of thing happening in New York, bastion of liberalism. How am I finding these articles? Do I have access to some alternate-universe version of the internet? I thought only Oklahoma and other red states had things like this happen. That's what you said right? Can someone please explain this to me? I'm just a poor homophobic okie who probably is typing on this dern compu-tater wrong.

Or it might be that this crap happens everywhere. That might be it too.

Two things stand out about that article:
A) The guy with the anti-gay campaign is just a candidate. He hasnt, and most likely wont be voted in, unlike a Sally Kern.

B) New York has already legalized gay marraige. Something that will take who knows how long to happen in Oklahoma.

Summary: Yes, there are kooks everywhere but Oklahoma probably has more of them and definitely has more intolerant, you-must-live-by-my-bible-rules citizens.

Summary: Yes, there are kooks everywhere but Oklahoma probably has more of them and definitely has more intolerant, you-must-live-by-my-bible-rules citizens.

I don't think it's a quantity of kooks issue. I think it's how religion is handled by people in the south and parts of the midwest vs. the north and west coast. My experience in the North is mostly western NY/Ohio and a bit of Vermont. But from what I saw, plenty of people are religious. It's just a private thing. People don't talk about what church they go to, or other related things for the most part. Living in Georgia, Kansas and now Oklahoma, it seems to me that religion is more woven into the social fabric in those places. That leads to people being more outspoken about issues, and the particular sects that seem to be favored(The more evangelical/charismatic ones) have made political outreach part of their mission.

I think part of the reason that the LGBT community has more traction in places like SF and NYC is an issue of time and population. We don't really have a large, super present LGBT community. They're here, but lower key than in some places. There haven't been watershed moments like the Milk assassination, or the Stonewall riots. Couple those factors with the innate social conservatism of the area, and you don't get much movement. I suspect things will change over time as demographics and opinions shift. The question is just how much time.

Wow, of ALL of Oklahoma City's lighting schemes you single out and attack the cross. Forget the lighting scheme on the First National Tower for breast cancer awareness month, the brand new lighting scheme for the Thunder (among a myriad of future potential lighting schemes on the Devon Tower), or the red and green holiday lighting scheme, again, on the First National Tower.

And the land of Sally Kern??? How many times to I need to explain that she doesn't represent Oklahoma City or the state as a whole, JUST HER LOCAL HOUSE DISTRICT!

The bus just went thump-thump and OKC is flat on the pavement. My goodness.

You clearly have some fond memories of OKC from when you were last in town. FNC was dark most recently. It's not just the land of Sally Kern. It's also the land of Ralph Shortey and Mike Reynolds and Ernest Istook and on and on.

Stop the delusion.

You clearly have some fond memories of OKC from when you were last in town. FNC was dark most recently. It's not just the land of Sally Kern. It's also the land of Ralph Shortey and Mike Reynolds and Ernest Istook and on and on.

Stop the delusion.

That would be last weekend, Spartan. I am well aware of what is happening with FNC. That's not the point. You don't get it. You just don't get it.

Do the people you just mentioned really represent what Oklahoma is about? You have to ask yourself, Spartan. What do you want Oklahoma to be? What is Oklahoma to you? Not the press, not the people you mentioned. You are letting them define Oklahoma. That's the delusion. And too many of us let it happen every day.

The bar owner of Granddad's gets it. He defined Oklahoma. He didn't let Sally Kern or Ralph Shortey do that. It starts with people like him, and it can continue with people like us. What's the delusion? Making a vision for Oklahoma become a reality? Or handing this state over to a group of people like Sally Kern who could care less what it means to be from Oklahoma?

That would be last weekend, Spartan. I am well aware of what is happening with FNC. That's not the point. You don't get it. You just don't get it.

Do the people you just mentioned really represent what Oklahoma is about? You have to ask yourself, Spartan. What do you want Oklahoma to be? What is Oklahoma to you? Not the press, not the people you mentioned. You are letting them define Oklahoma. That's the delusion. And too many of us let it happen every day.

The bar owner of Granddad's gets it. He defined Oklahoma. He didn't let Sally Kern or Ralph Shortey do that. It starts with people like him, and it can continue with people like us. What's the delusion? Making a vision for Oklahoma become a reality? Or handing this state over to a group of people like Sally Kern who could care less what it means to be from Oklahoma?

This is a nice sentiment, but the politicians Spartan mentions represent the norm in our state -- not necessarily OKC. They represent the norm because they represent the voters who vote for them. It's sad, but it's true.

There's hope yet for OKC, Norman, and Tulsa (and Tahlequah and a couple of other places), but Oklahoma is voting for these morons.

That would be last weekend, Spartan. I am well aware of what is happening with FNC. That's not the point. You don't get it. You just don't get it.

Do the people you just mentioned really represent what Oklahoma is about? You have to ask yourself, Spartan. What do you want Oklahoma to be? What is Oklahoma to you? Not the press, not the people you mentioned. You are letting them define Oklahoma. That's the delusion. And too many of us let it happen every day.

The bar owner of Granddad's gets it. He defined Oklahoma. He didn't let Sally Kern or Ralph Shortey do that. It starts with people like him, and it can continue with people like us. What's the delusion? Making a vision for Oklahoma become a reality? Or handing this state over to a group of people like Sally Kern who could care less what it means to be from Oklahoma?

+1

This is a nice sentiment, but the politicians Spartan mentions represent the norm in our state -- not necessarily OKC. They represent the norm because they represent the voters who vote for them. It's sad, but it's true.

There's hope yet for OKC, Norman, and Tulsa (and Tahlequah and a couple of other places), but Oklahoma is voting for these morons.

Oh, well, it would be ever sadder if there wasn't an OKC district, specifically gay Sen. Al McAffrey's, acting to counteract Rep. Sally Kern and her district.

That would be last weekend, Spartan. I am well aware of what is happening with FNC. That's not the point. You don't get it. You just don't get it.

Do the people you just mentioned really represent what Oklahoma is about? You have to ask yourself, Spartan. What do you want Oklahoma to be? What is Oklahoma to you? Not the press, not the people you mentioned. You are letting them define Oklahoma. That's the delusion. And too many of us let it happen every day.

The bar owner of Granddad's gets it. He defined Oklahoma. He didn't let Sally Kern or Ralph Shortey do that. It starts with people like him, and it can continue with people like us. What's the delusion? Making a vision for Oklahoma become a reality? Or handing this state over to a group of people like Sally Kern who could care less what it means to be from Oklahoma?

OKC Pulse, just curious, weren't you recently decrying Obama, gay marriage, government spending, etc etc.? Methinks you are fighting to preserve some bizarre twilight zone in which good wholesome conservative values don't coexist with bigotry and hatred. But they do.

I understand your argument that "you define your own space" (I gather that to be what you're attempting to argue), however, to the extent that you don't define your own space, the south and especially OK are as conservative as it gets. That, in 2013, also means backwards.

Don't get me wrong that if I could find work in my professional field in OKC, I would move back in a heartbreak, and I would still be espousing a realist's perspective. While Oklahoma's shockingly schizophrenic political landscape doesn't affect me personally, let's also not belittle the real damage it does to real people when mean-spirited lawmakers eliminate programs and help for people who need it.

Let's also not belittle the peoples that this batch of lawmakers are actively seeking to harm and estrange, like Latinos, gays, women, students, and so on, just to get an out-of-this-world score on some stupid conservative rating. I was on my lunch break at the office the other day and saw a national news piece about Mike Reynolds saying it's not the responsibility of Oklahoma's state govt to educate its people in a speech where he and the House GOP are trying to get rid of the very scholarship program that allowed me to graduate with above a 3.5 gpa and no college debt.

So nice try with your individualistic delusion about not worrying about what Oklahoma's leadership does and says, but to the extent that people with power and leadership positions in Oklahoma can promote bigotry and harm minorities, they take the opportunity every single chance they get. And it's no longer "just Sally Kern" but too many for any of us to keep track of, and that's no coincidence. The conservative movement in this country is under attack and making its last violent gasp for air, and the people of Oklahoma are unfortunately eating it up more than anywhere else in the nation.

Your points are well taken, Spartan. Speaking of mean spirited lawmakers, long time political commentator Frosty Troy has said some of the Republicans at the State Capitol are meaner than snakes.

As far as education is concerned, Oklahoma Republicans have been fighting it since at least the days back when Henry Bellmon was last governor, acting as a nearly lone Republican fighting for more funding. If more Republicans today had the good governing sense that Bellmon had, who I always voted for, I could start voting for Republicans again. It's been too ridiculous and irresponsible of the Republicans in recent years trying to promote unconstitutional bills

While Republicans appear almost ready to cut income taxes again, I hope they're as pleased as punch that state funding for education still hasn't returned to levels seen since 2008.

OKC Pulse, just curious, weren't you recently decrying Obama, gay marriage, government spending, etc etc.? Methinks you are fighting to preserve some bizarre twilight zone in which good wholesome conservative values don't coexist with bigotry and hatred. But they do.

I understand your argument that "you define your own space" (I gather that to be what you're attempting to argue), however, to the extent that you don't define your own space, the south and especially OK are as conservative as it gets. That, in 2013, also means backwards.

Don't get me wrong that if I could find work in my professional field in OKC, I would move back in a heartbreak, and I would still be espousing a realist's perspective. While Oklahoma's shockingly schizophrenic political landscape doesn't affect me personally, let's also not belittle the real damage it does to real people when mean-spirited lawmakers eliminate programs and help for people who need it.

Let's also not belittle the peoples that this batch of lawmakers are actively seeking to harm and estrange, like Latinos, gays, women, students, and so on, just to get an out-of-this-world score on some stupid conservative rating. I was on my lunch break at the office the other day and saw a national news piece about Mike Reynolds saying it's not the responsibility of Oklahoma's state govt to educate its people in a speech where he and the House GOP are trying to get rid of the very scholarship program that allowed me to graduate with above a 3.5 gpa and no college debt.

So nice try with your individualistic delusion about not worrying about what Oklahoma's leadership does and says, but to the extent that people with power and leadership positions in Oklahoma can promote bigotry and harm minorities, they take the opportunity every single chance they get. And it's no longer "just Sally Kern" but too many for any of us to keep track of, and that's no coincidence. The conservative movement in this country is under attack and making its last violent gasp for air, and the people of Oklahoma are unfortunately eating it up more than anywhere else in the nation.

A million times this. There's some bizarro disconnect in OKC Republand in which reality doesn't penetrate the fantasy that Republican leadership is somehow enlightened and beyond these "loony Sally Kern types." It's sad these Repubs won't stand up to the psychos in their own party and make a difference to move this state forward.

For generations, the Repubs railed against the unions, the teachers, the social workers, welfare, etc. Now, they are in absolute control, from the governor's office, to the AG, to both houses of the Legislature. They've relied on blaming Dems for the problems of this state so long they cannot take responsibility for their own control.

Own it, Repubs. You are the ones pushing this garbage bill that every teacher should carry firearms. You are the party denying marriage equality (and demonizing gays and lesbians as citizens and adoptive parents). You are the party taking money from mental health. You are the party fantasizing that public education improvement can be achieved by taking money from public education. You are the party creating sham bills about Sharia law, when Sharia law is not recognized in our court system. You are the party demanding that women seeking abortions have government-mandated ultrasounds.

Let's quit spinning this garbage. Quit acting like Sally Kern is the exception. The Republican Party in Oklahoma is as extreme as the clerics in Iran. It is what it is. Quit trying to pretend this isn't happening.

OKC Pulse, just curious, weren't you recently decrying Obama, gay marriage, government spending, etc etc.? Methinks you are fighting to preserve some bizarre twilight zone in which good wholesome conservative values don't coexist with bigotry and hatred. But they do.

I understand your argument that "you define your own space" (I gather that to be what you're attempting to argue), however, to the extent that you don't define your own space, the south and especially OK are as conservative as it gets. That, in 2013, also means backwards.

Spartan, you are completely misunderstanding me. First, I never decried gay marriage. Ever. I have relatives who are gay and would love to have that right (even those that live in other states) so why on earth would I ever decry gay marriage. I even voted against the ban on gay marriage in Oklahoma back in 2004.

Second, I may disagree with a lot of Obama's policies, but that doesn't automatically make me conservative in any form or fashion. I didn't agree with Bushes policies or even Clinton's. I am fed up with being labeled an Obama-hater the minute I question him. There's something wrong there, and I am not the only one with that sentiment.

On to goverment spending. We have a $17 trillion debt we need to get under control. Enough said. My personal opinion on how that should be addressed is best left for an entirely different thread.

Finally, what I was trying to emphasize is the rather silent moderates and liberals in Oklahoma who can take back Oklahoma from the Sally corn-Kernel types. I was trying to say that Oklahoma belongs to those that truly understands what it means to be Oklahoman, not those that demonstrate hatred and intolerance. If I had the power, I'd send Sally Kern and her minions packing. If that means showing a million (just throwing out a number) intolerant bigots the door to leave Oklahoma, then so be it.

Yeah, so maybe I have a delusion. But don't ever confuse me for a supporter of the GOP or the democrats. I claim neither.

I noticed Bank of America on N May near 50th is flying a large rainbow flag. Any idea what that's about?

The Republican Party in Oklahoma is as extreme as the clerics in Iran. It is what it is. Quit trying to pretend this isn't happening.

And we wonder why the Republican Party keeps winning more and more seats

I noticed Bank of America on N May near 50th is flying a large rainbow flag. Any idea what that's about?

LGBT Equality Center. It just opened recently... fantastic space!

Cimarron Alliance | For a fair and just Oklahoma! (http://www.cimarronalliance.org/)