A bit of this popped up in the main weather thread, but feel this is probably a more appropriate place here.

Some takeaways from what I've seen.

1) KWTV had problems with Gary using the touch screen, people talking over each other, and just a general sense of disorganization. At times it almost seemed Michael was Chief and Gary was just there.

2) KFOR with Reed Timmer seems to be going for the shock factor more and more.

3) Damon performed well and had the more calm coverage.

4) KOKH - do they have coverage? lol

So here are the ratings from the Lost Ogle...
The Lost Ogle According to this internal Channel 9 email, the company had a ?banner day? on W | The Lost Ogle (http://www.thelostogle.com/2013/04/19/according-to-this-internal-channel-9-email-the-company-had-a-banner-day-on-w/?fb_source=pubv1)

KWTV blew everyone away in the ratings.

OKLAHOMA CITY
KWTV KFOR KOCO KOKH
5P 16.5 13 7.2 3.2
6P 20 17.8 10.2 5.2
10P 18.1 13.2 7.3 1.2
Severe Wx 19.6 12.7 10.2 5.8

I was expecting Reed Timmer to be animated, hyped up and going for the “shock factor”.
But the reality was that Timmer was far calmer in his WX reporting than KWTV’s far more animated David Payne.
KWTV’s Michael A. was quality coverage as always.

Hey Venture, great job on the severe weather thread and chats during the storm.

So sad to see Gary struggle with the new technology. I used to like Mike on 4, but he's become a joke. I noticed during the last "life threatening" snow storm, he came in early and quickly relegated Emily to showing viewer snow pics. His stupid tie is not even a good gimmick and his obvious man crush on Timmer should have Sally Kern concerned. Once again, he treated Emily like a high school weather intern and dismissed her so she could "get some rest". This seems like a last act of desperation before we have our first female chief. I though Damon Lane did the best job providing severe weather information and not looking like a "freak".


Brownwood's Ratings:

KWTV 9 - Gary & Michael (6.5) Payne and Gardner (6.0)

KOCO 5 - Damon (8.0)

KFOR 4 - Mike (4.5) Timmer (5.0) Dominator 4 (7.5 for the cool factor but not much for providing me with useful info about my weather situation)
Emily (ND - No decision, management pulled her before decision)

KOKH 25 - Uh, were they on?

OKC Talk - (8.5) Could be higher if we could get group Skype !!

i watch all 3 coverage from 4,5 and 9 and i say 5 was the best they didn't yell at each other and going crazy when they see a tornado

Group Skype? Ehhh. LOL

Let me work on getting the radar feeds going and then we'll go from there. :)

The Wx-Chase mailing list had an interesting note today...


I was going westbound on Highway 5 east of FDR to intercept the second tornado warned storm, since the first one was getting mushy in the cool air, when I was suddenly passed by a "tricked out" pickup-truck with a big "9" on the side and lots of graphics (Channel 9?). It passed me so fast I couldn't read it. Then, about 30 seconds later, another darn vehicle passed me at a high rate of speed. This one I could read. On the side, in large letters, it said, "SHERIFF" and something about "Tillman County." Up ahead, I came upon the two vehicles again. This time, they were parked along the side of the road. I think the driver of the second vehicle had a note pad or something in his hand. I proceeded (at or below the speed limit) and easily intercepted the FDR supercell without any effort. It was mushy too, so I dropped south into the better air and waited near Harrold, TX for about an hour when a cell blew up to my west and drifted toward me. I drove north about 6 miles (at or well below the speed limit) and parked east of the now quickly-rotating storm and took some pics of a beautiful supercell and two nice little tornadoes.

Probably Val.

Anyone see Tuttle's facebook fiasco?

Last week during the severe weather coverage he blasted the local mets and called out (not by name) Gary as being a "rookie met". A lot of his 'followers' flipped and started unfoloowing his page and posting all sorts of comments about how he is childish and unprofessional.

He later ended up removing both posts and the entire fire storm - chalking it up to 'potty mouths'.

I watched KOCO and thought Damon Land and Rusty McCranie did a good job.

Anyone see Tuttle's facebook fiasco?

Last week during the severe weather coverage he blasted the local mets and called out (not by name) Gary as being a "rookie met". A lot of his 'followers' flipped and started unfoloowing his page and posting all sorts of comments about how he is childish and unprofessional.

He later ended up removing both posts and the entire fire storm - chalking it up to 'potty mouths'.

Wow that is insane. I completely missed that, but I also don't have him "liked" on the faceplace. Wasn't he suppose to announce which station he was going back to by now?

Regardless I never really cared for him. On facebook he is complete hype machine most of the time.

I have him liked, but not for weather forecasts :). More for a better understanding of what the local has been informed about pertaining to upcoming weather events. Also it is entertaining seeing how he is obviously self-righteous.

I know he is just a person on facebook doing weather forecasting, but the random religious birrage he puts on his 'followers' is pitiful. Not sure what the point of those posts are, but it is rather odd to me.


I wish I had saved those posts now, I knew they would be deleted, too. He looked like a teenager replying to some of those comments.

Seems to me that Damon Lane is generally following in his predecessor's footsteps in that he avoids the hysterics/hype. Always liked Rick Mitchell for that characteristic.

Gary looked completely lost with the touchscreen. In fairness, though, they've used that for some non-weather stories and other reporters have seemed just as awkward with it.

I simply don't watch Mike Morgan. The irony to me that Morgan has become the hypemaster of the local TV meteorologists, whereas Gary has become rather leveled. When I was a kid, and Gary was a relative newcomer to Ch 9, he was as animated and hype-oriented as Morgan is now. In contrast, Gary has relatively mellowed considerably.

Don't know how many here will remember him, but KOCO had a very good meteorologist many years ago by the name of Wayne Shattuck. He took over a few years after the crusty, curmudgeonly old Fred Norman retired/was fired from KOCO. Shattuck was an extremely competent weatherman as I recall...as was old Jim Williams (Danny's brother) on KFOR (nee WKY at that time).

Wow, am I showing my age or what?? I remember wayyy too many old local TV meteorologists..

Just my view from someone who watched both KFOR and KWTV.

I consider myself a dedicated KFOR viewer despite all the hype and "Jesus is on my toast" sensationalism, but Mike Morgan has really bumped up the crazy lately, almost like he has to overcompensate for Payne and Gardner leaving. He did something last Wednesday that really bothered me. There was just a small radar signature over Lawton, no more than a little rain, and he was screaming about it being a debris ball from a huge tornado. As someone with a lot of family in West Lawton, it scared the daylights out of me. I was frantically calling and texting relatives are they were like, "it's not even raining." While Morgan was hollering about certain death, their own weatherguys (they have an ABC affiliate down there, KSWO) were giving the all clear. IDK, could have been an honest mistake, but it just seemed to be so over the top for what was a pretty light tornado. Reed Timmer was actually pretty good and could be a game changer, but Jon Welsh continues to be painfully awkward.

I'll give props to KWTV for trying to shake up things, but the execution was just terrible last week. The Lost Ogle said it perfectly: way too many cooks in the kitchen. Just look at Val Castor and David Payne trying to get in the last word with each other...wow, just awkward LOL. I'm not sure David likes being a desk jockey during these events, and I think thats going to be an issue in the future. My biggest issue with KWTV though is Gary England. I'm going to get lit up for this, but as someone under the age of 30, I really don't see the big deal. I'm sure he was fantastic in his heyday. Now, though, the guy is very senile, almost to the point where its uncomfortable for the viewer. Him struggling with that big stupid screen was just icing on the cake. KWTV should have let him retire years ago.

I can't say I watched KOCO too much, but I might just give them a chance next time, especially now that they are in HD.

We're old hands at weather-watching in Oklahoma, with an emphasis on "old," but the hysteria exhibited by so many of the folks--think David Payne & Mike Morgan!--is beyond the pale. We like hearing/watching Michael Armstrong & Damon Lane. They exhibit "calm," which is refreshing, soothing, and when/if either of them would say, "Take shelter NOW," we'd know it was the real deal. Gary has always been our go-to guy, but he did seem quite "at sea" with this last round. We love Emily, but Mike will never let her have the spotlight. Too bad; she's great.

What we can't figure is why 9 put Payne ahead of Armstrong. Payne is awful to watch, as he bobs and weaves in front of the weatherscreen for just 'normal' broadcasts. It's so 'strobe-like' that we've often turned to another station just to get Payne out of the frame! Armstrong and Lane and Sutton and McCranie are great weather folks!

Am dreading 'weather season' with the hysterical crew. Probably will turn off the sound, watch the radars, and go outside to see what is really happening.

Just my view from someone who watched both KFOR and KWTV.

I consider myself a dedicated KFOR viewer despite all the hype and "Jesus is on my toast" sensationalism, but Mike Morgan has really bumped up the crazy lately, almost like he has to overcompensate for Payne and Gardner leaving. He did something last Wednesday that really bothered me. There was just a small radar signature over Lawton, no more than a little rain, and he was screaming about it being a debris ball from a huge tornado. As someone with a lot of family in West Lawton, it scared the daylights out of me. I was frantically calling and texting relatives are they were like, "it's not even raining." While Morgan was hollering about certain death, their own weatherguys (they have an ABC affiliate down there, KSWO) were giving the all clear. IDK, could have been an honest mistake, but it just seemed to be so over the top for what was a pretty light tornado. Reed Timmer was actually pretty good and could be a game changer, but Jon Welsh continues to be painfully awkward.

I'll give props to KWTV for trying to shake up things, but the execution was just terrible last week. The Lost Ogle said it perfectly: way too many cooks in the kitchen. Just look at Val Castor and David Payne trying to get in the last word with each other...wow, just awkward LOL. I'm not sure David likes being a desk jockey during these events, and I think thats going to be an issue in the future. My biggest issue with KWTV though is Gary England. I'm going to get lit up for this, but as someone under the age of 30, I really don't see the big deal. I'm sure he was fantastic in his heyday. Now, though, the guy is very senile, almost to the point where its uncomfortable for the viewer. Him struggling with that big stupid screen was just icing on the cake. KWTV should have let him retire years ago.

I can't say I watched KOCO too much, but I might just give them a chance next time, especially now that they are in HD.




I think the paticular scenario you are talking about was when there was indeed a tornado warning in effect. But there was no confirmed tornado on the ground. Keep in mind, Lawton was under many tornado warnings that evening. His storm spottesr had moved along with the earlier storms and he had no ground crews to spot the storm. So he was using his educated guess and the radar indicated tornado signature.

It does not have to be raining to have a tornado, in fact, tornados often occur in the rain free zone of the storm.

I think heeding to warnings is a smart thing to do, no matter what the actual conditions look like to the untrained eye.

hopefully when Gary England retires from news 9 the will bring back Rick Mitchell and he will be the chief

Not sure if you're joking...

But Rick is in Dallas now, $ talks.

David Payne is scheduled to be chief when Gary leaves at the end of this year.

The Dominator is so awesome

3657

hopefully when Gary England retires from news 9 the will bring back Rick Mitchell and he will be the chief

Yeah like Anon said...Rick Mitchell is gone. He is in a much bigger market and is making big bucks. He is also slated to take over as Chief Met at NBC 5 in Dallas in 2018.

I gotta be honest, those ratings just continue to baffle me... I can't even fathom how anyone can consider KWTV OR KFOR even close to watchable. I know Gary has the reputation, but I can't stand listening to him. Both Mike Morgasm and David Payne are laughably over-the-top. I'd honestly rather chance it with the tornado than listen to either 4 or 9.

KOCO has been, and is still my very solid GO-TO channel for weather coverage... and it's not even close. Rick Mitchell was great, and it appears that so far Damon Lane has been a great transition.

Can't disagree with much said. I think KWTV ratings happen out of habit. When it hits the fan, people go to Gary and have for what...almost 40 years? Once he's gone I think we'll see a major shift in ratings.

Damon can easily take a lot of those over with smart and properly planned enhancements to their coverage without going crazy. Of course, if he starts getting a major ego from the feedback we are going to need to buy him a bedazzled tie. :-P LOL

Can't disagree with much said. I think KWTV ratings happen out of habit. When it hits the fan, people go to Gary and have for what...almost 40 years? Once he's gone I think we'll see a major shift in ratings.

Damon can easily take a lot of those over with smart and properly planned enhancements to their coverage without going crazy. Of course, if he starts getting a major ego from the feedback we are going to need to buy him a bedazzled tie. :-P LOL

or get him a Dominator *lol*

So, maybe one of the local stations needs to give this guy a chance at being a weatherman . . .
SoSGaHimf_w
Obviously, in addition to going to The Columbia School of Broadcasting, he also attended The Daniel Schorr/Tom Brokaw Academy of Diction.
He might have to change his name to something like Sam Inclemente but that would be a small price to pay for a second chance.

That was definitely a classic. Vulgarity aside...I've heard worse when I was in grade school many moons ago. :-P

The kid has almost 10k followers on Twitter now. LOL

I get about 85 to 95% of my "weather coverage" right here on this website.
(It's sort of like the Jack "Sgt. Friday" Webb/Mr. Spock/Det. Cho respository of Weather Prediction Facts.)

Did I forget to say, "Thanks," Venture?
Sorry.

Agreed. Thanks to you weather guys for what you offer.

KFOR weather coverage is horrible last night Mike Morgan says that there was a hook echo that was heading to the metro area but they wasn't at all

Yeah like Anon said...Rick Mitchell is gone. He is in a much bigger market and is making big bucks. He is also slated to take over as Chief Met at NBC 5 in Dallas in 2018.
And he's already doing the 10:00 M-F. He must really be highly thought of, BIG shoes to fill when Finfrock, a giant in the business, steps aside.

Rick is doing 4:00 and 10:00 Newscast.Similar to David Payne over at News 9

Bump

Damon Lane is doing a good job, but honestly I think the mellower Gary England is in top form with Armstrong today. Gary was so out of it the last storm a week or so ago. It's good to see him in charge and doing well today. The Morgasm Machine is in full gear at 4.

David Payne has GOT to calm down on 9. You can convey seriousness without the shrill screaming.

Emily sutton is awful. Channel 9 is actually very good today.

David Payne has GOT to calm down on 9. You can convey seriousness without the shrill screaming.

Agree 100%.

Emily sutton is awful. Channel 9 is actually very good today.
Agree on Emily Sutton. She is nice eye candy. The Channel 4 weather team may be utilizing her for some things other than stricly weather coverage.

Morgan sure wanted his air time. He pre-empted playoff hockey while the other two stations stuck with network sports. Classic DB.

"Weather Coverage" today--observed while taking mandated emergency cover (three times on account of the sirens went off) at the wrong end of a store on the big screen TV tuned to The Gary England Channel has convinced me that David Payne and Val Caster need to be put on short leashes with mufflers or muzzles or whatever them over-excited barking dog gizmos are called (anti-getners?). I actually appreciated the voice of reason and nonchaositism provided by Gary England. Which is saying something.

Mike Morgan on the NPR Feed (91.x) during the drive home seemed even more non-fearpanicmongering (note to PlutoP: "made up word" =).

However . . . I appreciated the NWS Robo/Steven Hawking voice behind the video crawl on OETA even more.
In terms of veracity. And immediacy. (while watching "Call the Midwife")

(yet . . . none of them could hold a candle to Venture. nor even a flashlight with live batteries. =)

Still . . . It is one thing to point out problems and another to provide solutions:
How about the lottery winner grants David Payne and Val Caster complimentary scholarships to The Walter Cronkite School of Broadcasting?


zookeeper: "David Payne has GOT to calm down on 9. You can convey seriousness without the shrill screaming."
Apparently you agree with me =)

Checked them all out today. FOX 25 is just out gunned so they have no real hope to compete. KOCO didn't really sit well with me. Of course they annoy me with their nonstop "behind the scenes" tweets like it is a bad episode of some reality show.

KFOR was definitely fear machine in full gear and I had to shut him off. Which was unfortunately because Chopper4 had some really good shots.

KWTV will win the ratings again. Gary was in very good form today with Mike working the wall - exactly what they should have been doing. The David Payne "OMG ITS AN EF4 MAYBE 5 OMGWTFBBQAHHHH!" was getting annoying and just painful. You knew Gary was just fuming inside. Val wasn't too bad but still had his shouting moments. Take away the shouting, the both have a ton of field experience that is good. However, why in the world would you put them in the same area to track the same storm. That is a waste. You need to balance them with the more calming Alan, Hank and Bobby. I was thrilled those guys were on the Norman storm and provided much better coverage than Payne and Val. Jim Gardner was great as usual, but just caught himself out of position at the wrong time.

If we can get Payne and Val to calm down, KWTV would have a great field team.

Another comment on KWTV...Amanda Taylor is HORRIBLE. Let Kelly handle the anchor desk during severe weather. She just rambles and comes across as a cheap "shock jock" like reporter asking questions that really don't need to be asked. Her interview with the EMSA guy made me want to smack her at some of the questions.

Couple other observations on the last two days of coverage...

So far Kelly has called Jim Gardner "Mason" once. Jim has slipped saying "Bob Moore Chop..." and then caught himself once as well. Maybe after a few more years everyone will be use to it. :)

Checked them all out today. FOX 25 is just out gunned so they have no real hope to compete. KOCO didn't really sit well with me. Of course they annoy me with their nonstop "behind the scenes" tweets like it is a bad episode of some reality show.

KFOR was definitely fear machine in full gear and I had to shut him off. Which was unfortunately because Chopper4 had some really good shots.

KWTV will win the ratings again. Gary was in very good form today with Mike working the wall - exactly what they should have been doing. The David Payne "OMG ITS AN EF4 MAYBE 5 OMGWTFBBQAHHHH!" was getting annoying and just painful. You knew Gary was just fuming inside. Val wasn't too bad but still had his shouting moments. Take away the shouting, the both have a ton of field experience that is good. However, why in the world would you put them in the same area to track the same storm. That is a waste. You need to balance them with the more calming Alan, Hank and Bobby. I was thrilled those guys were on the Norman storm and provided much better coverage than Payne and Val. Jim Gardner was great as usual, but just caught himself out of position at the wrong time.

If we can get Payne and Val to calm down, KWTV would have a great field team.

Another comment on KWTV...Amanda Taylor is HORRIBLE. Let Kelly handle the anchor desk during severe weather. She just rambles and comes across as a cheap "shock jock" like reporter asking questions that really don't need to be asked. Her interview with the EMSA guy made me want to smack her at some of the questions.

Couple other observations on the last two days of coverage...

So far Kelly has called Jim Gardner "Mason" once. Jim has slipped saying "Bob Moore Chop..." and then caught himself once as well. Maybe after a few more years everyone will be use to it. :)

I agree with everything you wrote. Channel 9 was heads and shoulders above the competition today. I thought Payne was the worst with the shrill screaming, it was so annoying, but Gary was just ON today. What you said about Amanda Taylor that I bolded above was absolutely right. She asked the EMSA guy if they were going to work through the night! He said "Well, we're 24/7/365." I was thinking Oh, Amanda. Face palm time.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I watched Mike Morgan and KFOR for the majority of the coverage...partly because it was firing off out by my house in Surrey Hills early in the afternoon and KWTV and KOCO were not cutting away from the sporting events and that irritated me as I could see the rotation in the clouds west of and over me. I kept thinking they would come on, but they didn't so I stayed with Morgan. KOCO and KWTV finally came on when the tornado warning was issued. But Morgan was warning of the possible tornado a couple of minutes before the warning. I know he was a bit sensationalistic, but considering he turned out correct, I can accept his excitement. And as far as chasers, I could not tolerate David Payne. He was crazy. I really figured when 4 added Reed Timmer that he would "out David Payne", David Payne, but he was actually quite good in my opinion. Reed did get excited a couple of times, but nothing even remotely close to David Payne. Emily Sutton was not with it today. This is the first time I have seen her storm chase, and she needs to get better or stay in studio on Twitter. I don't know if KFOR asked Hank Baker to jump in for Emily or what, but I thought Hank Baker did well also. But then, Hank is a friend of mine and I was glad to hear him on.

All in all, I enjoyed KFOR's coverage. I am also starting to like their helicopter guy John. He is getting much better. I used to watch KWTV because they were more calm and low key and I stayed away from KFOR because of David Payne's irrational reporting. But now...he is at KWTV and I can't handle him. So, I'm back to KFOR. Oh well.

I just glad we have the coverage we have and people like Venture and Annonymous and the rest that keep us covered here. Thanks guys.

Turned down the volume, simply tired of the noise that was supposed to be information.
Alternated radar screens from the channels and from the computer.
Called the out of stater kiddos and assured them all was well for the folks, less so for fish at dirtybird and for several folks not in norman.
Decent weather review all in all.

We lost power as the sirens went off here in Edmond, had to listen on my phone or info....started out listening to 9's coverage but over the radio I just couldn't take them trying to scream over each other. Watched 4's coverage for awhile.....Emily: "Mike!, MIKE! MIKE!!!!....click

Agree 100%.I actually switched over to 4 for a while, to get away from the hysterics...

I actually switched over to 4 for a while, to get away from the hysterics...

I did too. Back on 9, I loved it when a couple of times Gary actually just cut them off and moved right along like they weren't screaming about the apocalypse. I was glad he was directing the show today. That last storm where he was so out of it was worrying. Maybe ill that day? Today, he was really good.

I actually switched over to 4 for a while, to get away from the hysterics...

Odd how things have changed...used to switch to 9 to get away from the hysterics...but now I turn to 4 to get away from them. Wonder what the common denominator might be?

KFOR: First on TV while KWTV continued to show golf. Jon Welsh in Bob Moore Chopper 4 has absolutely earned my respect today, and was probably the only reason I continued to watch. Reed Timmer was pretty good as well. I love Emily Sutton in the morning but she should have NOT chased today. At one point she was just screaming "MIKE! MIKE! MIKE!" LOL. Oh and Mike Morgan would really do well to stop claiming tornadoes to be F4/5. They probably didn't win the ratings but they did get beamed nationally on CNN, TWC, MSNBC, etc.

KWTV: Didn't watch them as much, and their coverage of the Shawnee tornado was much better than the Edmond one (had to turn it from KFOR when Emily was screaming MIKE! MIKE! MIKE!). But WOW, someone needs to sit down Val and David Payne. Both are in serious need of a come-to-jesus moment. When Gary retires and David takes over I think the awkwardness will only increase. Way too many egos in that newsroom.

Don't think anyone "won" today; however i'll always give props to all stations today for keeping everyone safe. Even with their annoying habits, most markets, particularly mid-markets like ours, would kill for weather coverage like we receive in OKC.

Nine was terrible, Damon Lane was his usual cocky self, blah, so I watched crazy Mike (sorry to Shawnee Mall for the false damage hysteria). Four did best today although Nine did have the best helicopter shot of one the twisters. I miss Rick Mitchell.

To the posters above who watched Four, I did too because they seemed much more prepared. I was shocked how long Five and Nine waited to start their coverage.

Some of the KWTV and KFOR helicopter images were absolutely stunning.

The new helicopter guy on Four was impressive and seems like a class act.

hopefully someone can get they hands on ratings for today storm coverage

hopefully someone can get they hands on ratings for today storm coverage

Lost Ogle will probably have it in a day or two.

I'm typing this on my phone so it's gonna be short and sweet.

We were in southwestern oklahoma on a little wkend vacation and decided to stay all day today because we didn't want to drive home and get blown off the road. We used the hotel wifi and live streamed channel 9 on our iPads. The picture was awesome, it was just like watching it on TV. I thought the coverage was excellent. Yes, David was insane but he is really good at what he does. The tornado footage from Jim garner was insane!!!!!

We lost power as the sirens went off here in Edmond, had to listen on my phone or info....started out listening to 9's coverage but over the radio I just couldn't take them trying to scream over each other. Watched 4's coverage for awhile.....Emily: "Mike!, MIKE! MIKE!!!!....click


I think Emily got scared. She pulled the car over and just sat while every one else stayed on the move.... but later on she got in the game and got some good shots. That's when the screaming started.

We lost power as the sirens went off here in Edmond, had to listen on my phone or info....started out listening to 9's coverage but over the radio I just couldn't take them trying to scream over each other. Watched 4's coverage for awhile.....Emily: "Mike!, MIKE! MIKE!!!!....click

She posted about that today on her Facebook lol

Was in the car listening to coverage from Channel 9. Thought it was funny that I kept hearing someone scream out Gary's name and that at one point, Gary suggested we equip our kiddos with helmets and shatter-proof goggles.

Did a guy seriously just hang a confederate flag on that tree live on KFOR? WTF!

That KOCO interview with the Parker boy (who is waiting to hear if his parents are alive) asking where he thought he was going to stay tonight was brutal.

Someone needs to get Meg Alexander some coffee, ASAP! Or tell her to go home. Stuttering and slurring words..

Someone needs to get Meg Alexander some coffee, ASAP! Or tell her to go home. Stuttering and slurring words..

Give her a break. She personally witnessed 4 dead bodies be pulled out of the 7-11 off 4th street.

Most people who aren't sociopaths would be a little worn down after that.