At 6:15, I went north--from my work. I'm not going to blame Mike Morgan for this. He didn't tell people to hide in freaking drainage ditches/storm pipes. Not to be non sensitive, but that's their own damn fault.

Agree. I know we say get in a ditch if you have nowhere else to go. However, getting into a drain pipe that is meant to funnel the storm runoff is not smart.

I saw a KFOR "We're Your Lifeguard" weather promo that uses footage of Morgan telling people that they need to be either out of the way or below ground. It starts at 1:05 mark in the video Venture posted in #118.

So yeah, apparently instead of keeping quiet KFOR is doubling down. They did leave the most obvious dumb part out about driving south.

I do hope none of the people who made the bad decision to get into a storm drain were not out and about because of Morgan. Otherwise, calling yourself a lifeguard would be a highly unfortunate choice of word.

We ended up going to the Waterford Hotel parking garage. It was packed with more cars than there were parking spaces. I felt safe there because it is a little underground and we were in the middle. My husband on the other hand was at work on the south side, and was one of those people that ended up on I35 heading south. It was nice to see him at almost midnight when he finally got home. Crazy night all the way around.

Well the heat is just going to get turned up even more tomorrow - I assume this story will be in the paper.

Oklahoma tornadoes: Why did so many people flee their homes Friday? | News OK (http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-tornadoes-why-did-so-many-people-flee-their-homes-friday/article/3841422)

Guess whose mug is plastered right at the top of the story...

http://photos3.newsok.com/cache/w300-127078e359751c33797312a778793032.jpg

He who lives by the hype...........

Emily said earlier that amateurs shouldn't be out chasing storms, does that mean she will no longer be out chasing?

Emily said earlier that amateurs shouldn't be out chasing storms, does that mean she will no longer be out chasing?

I think she has more qualifications than a majority of people out there.

Emily said earlier that amateurs shouldn't be out chasing storms, does that mean she will no longer be out chasing?

Heh, heh, heh (good one!)

So . . . Doesn't this suggest the question: When does one become a professional storm chaser?
"Hey, Bob, I'll give you a dollar if'n you chase that there tornado . . ."
"OK"

Just to set some things straight here on the Morgan pitchforking.

Of the 7 confirmed vehicle deaths:

Mother and baby out in El Reno on I-40. 2 deaths
Tim and chaser crew just south of I-40. 3 deaths
Associated rural flooding. 2 deaths

This is what is confirmed, and I think there are still people who are missing in flood waters.


So there has been no confirmed deaths on I-44 or associated southbound traffic areas out of OKC area in which Morgan told people to drive to if they could.


Evidence is a b!tch when it doesn't support your personal pitchforking agendas. Yes Mike was incorrrect and it could have been worse. But using these people above as examples of who Mike put in danger is incorrect.




Quoting myself from earlier for updates....


Now almost everyone who was struck by the tornado and killed was towards the El Reno I-40 corridor. All other deaths are from people who were swept away in flood waters.

Mike Morgan is the lightning rod for all of these people making poor decisions. STOP spreading false information. In fact, at least 4 of the 'tornado' deaths are from "chasers". Also I have yet to see any evidence about how people who were on south I-44 (Like Mike Morgan suggested) have been killed.


That article in the paper is a joke. And the comments below it just echo the misinformation about this whole ordeal. Sad situation for Mike and KFOR.

Quoting myself from earlier for updates....

Now almost everyone who was struck by the tornado and killed was towards the El Reno I-40 corridor. All other deaths are from people who were swept away in flood waters.

Mike Morgan is the lightning rod for all of these people making poor decisions. STOP spreading false information. In fact, at least 4 of the 'tornado' deaths are from "chasers". Also I have yet to see any evidence about how people who were on south I-44 (Like Mike Morgan suggested) have been killed.

That article in the paper is a joke. And the comments below it just echo the misinformation about this whole ordeal. Sad situation for Mike and KFOR.

I guess one way to look at it, how many more people were out driving trying to fleet the tornado when the bigger threat was the flash flooding? There by all the additional congestion just created an extremely bad situation when it came to dealing with a city (like most cities) that simply can't handle 6-9 inches of rain in an evening.

If anything the takeaway needs to be - stay put and take shelter. Getting in a car and trying to flee is foolish unless you have a significant lead time with uncongested roads. Driving exposes the person to so many additional hazards - hail, flooding, other drivers, etc.

I'm not sure where the fallout regarding Morgan and KFOR will end up.The heat is definitely on. As far as the comment about Emily Sutton and amateur chasers. 1) Everyone has to start somewhere. 2) Being educated in meteorology does NOT make you a good storm chaser. You are dealing with much more pressure when dealing with road navigation and avoiding hazards all while processing what the storm is doing to be in the correct position. I liken the skills closer to what it takes to being a pilot more than anything. Scanning multiple sources of information while stay observant of all your surroundings and looking ahead slight to anticipate what is to come.

Sutton backing up into a ditch, being in the wrong position, and the like shows that while she may have the meteorology nailed down - she should not be driving. She can't focus on the other aspects of the act without making repeated errors. Let he chase...but have someone else drive who will concentrate on it more. When I was more actively chasing, the guy I chased with did the driving and I sat shotgun so I could focus on the storm. I've done it all before and had no issue with it, but to me it was a more logical and comfortable (and safer) setup.

Yup. Even better is a setup of 3 people.

Driver.
Navigator/Data analyst.
Camera work.

I think most of the local media crews go in pairs. With a driver (who is also the data analyst) and then a photo journalist for camera work obviously.

In a non storm thread a while back, someone posted frustration over reaching folks by cell and when asked what they were doing, the replies were along the lines of taking the kids for ice cream, picking up dry cleaning, heading over to bobs, going to try a new diner, but almost never, ever was it I'm driving my car right now.
If ever a driver needed to be focused on being a driver, it's when the person next to him or her is watching a storm spiral down or toward them ... or, remembering a Paxton/Hunt scene ... tracking cows. It's really gotta be tough to accurately count cows and drive at the same time.

So remember, friends don't let drivers count cows.

Quoting myself from earlier for updates....


Now almost everyone who was struck by the tornado and killed was towards the El Reno I-40 corridor. All other deaths are from people who were swept away in flood waters.

Mike Morgan is the lightning rod for all of these people making poor decisions. STOP spreading false information. In fact, at least 4 of the 'tornado' deaths are from "chasers". Also I have yet to see any evidence about how people who were on south I-44 (Like Mike Morgan suggested) have been killed.


That article in the paper is a joke. And the comments below it just echo the misinformation about this whole ordeal. Sad situation for Mike and KFOR.

Anon, in general I understand where you're coming from, and had Morgan limited his advice to a more generic "get out of the way," I think he'd be entitled to a pass. But the audio I've heard clearly has him listing the routes and roads to take to evade the tornado. Whether none or 100 died as a result of taking the advice isn't relevant - the greater point is that I can't fathom any legit met in this market (or any other, for that matter) endorsing that kind of advice.

In all honesty, much as I personally don't care for Morgan's antics in general, I'd originally opted to give him a break on this because I'd not heard what he said, and assumed the fallout was an overreaction to a general suggestion on the order of "getting out of town" well before the storm arrived, thinking in terms of hours. Nothing wrong with that. Heck, lots of folks did that. But when I heard that audio clip, which I have no reason to believe was doctored, my opinion changed. There was really no mistaking that the direction was for people to flee by vehicle, and to take these routes to do it, while tornado warnings were all flying. I can't get on board with that, even if no one heeded it.

I know you respect Mike Morgan, and I certainly have no intent to start any kind of disagreement/fight/flamewar of any kind, but I do hope you can at least respect my perspective on this.

Of course I respect that perspective, I share the same one. He should NOT have given that advice. That day in chat I actually posted multiple times that local media needed to stop telling people to drive away. I am in total agreeance that fleeing by vehicle is wrong.


Some of you are missing my point. My vendetta is against the people using the death-spin as a result of Mike's suggestions. Which is false. Plain and simple. KFOR is getting blamed for all of these people making decisions on their own free will when they knew the situation around them and their immediate traffic area. Not only is there lacking evidence to suggest that Mike's suggestions killed or injured people - but the evidence that WE KNOW AS OF NOW actually points to the opposite.


On May 20th, Mike Morgan also told people to "get below ground or get out of the way" as the tornado took aim on Moore. Where was the outcry then? Oh because the tornado actually did destroy large numbers of neighborhoods it was okay then? Did people actually survive by fleeing?

Captain hindsights.


Weather to our understanding is very random - and the only thing to do is be prepared and have a plan. That's it. Quit looking for blame.

I was at home hunkered down, flipping between 4, 5 and 9, seeing if I needed to go to the nearby shelter (I didn't). The worst was when KWTV broadcast their helicopter shot from south of downtown looking north, and framed in the shot were the "parking lots" on Santa Fe, Shields and I-35, with the storm bearing down on them from the west. There were thousands of people there, fully-exposed sitting ducks, waiting for nature to have its way with them. Thank God that the storm didn't stay on the ground or there could easily be hundreds dead and thousands injured.

Those weren't people still driving home from work seeking the shelter of their homes. Those were people who left the safety of their homes because Mike Morgan told them to. And when the tornado didn't get them, they were left exposed to the flood waters, power lines, open manholes and blocked roads. A hundred panicked people stormed into a convenience store, breaking the glass front door.

Is this acceptable - scaring unprepared, unequipped people out into a storm at night?

That question has been answered numerous times in this thread.

Everyone agrees that it is incorrect to suggest to, and flee in a vehicle without adequate time and traffic situations.

I think she has more qualifications than a majority of people out there.


She does a fine job as a weather caster, but she has allowed herself to be a part of the Oklahoma City 4 5 9 weather hype machine, which is a complete turn off for me. I go to any one of the local TV stations for basic weather information, and then I can figure the rest out on my own.

And no, she should not be out storm chasing.

Something that I haven't seen mentioned much in the discussion about Friday's storms was the amount of media build-up prior to the storms. Pretty much every weather outlet (local and national) was saying, "Oh...there's gonna be a big one today!" The local stations had even gone into wall-to-wall coverage before anything really even formed! So of course folks freaked out. They'd been hyped up to that point for a couple of days leading up to the event.

Something that I haven't seen mentioned much in the discussion about Friday's storms was the amount of media build-up prior to the storms. Pretty much every weather outlet (local and national) was saying, "Oh...there's gonna be a big one today!" The local stations had even gone into wall-to-wall coverage before anything really even formed! So of course folks freaked out. They'd been hyped up to that point for a couple of days leading up to the event.
Agree 100%. The media these days, local especially, have reached the point, where they get most everyone in almost an "apocolyptic" mindset before incoming weather events. Whether it be winter storms, severe thunder/tornadic producing storms, they(media) are responsible for the most part in people buying up food and goods way in advance of weather. And in many cases the weather never materializes. It is not uncommon now for groups and organizations to cancel events several days in advance of what "might" be coming. Somebody or somebodies need to step back and get this under control or it will just keep getting worse.

Agree 100%. The media these days, local especially, have reached the point, where they get most everyone in almost an "apocolyptic" mindset before incoming weather events. Whether it be winter storms, severe thunder/tornadic producing storms, they(media) are responsible for the most part in people buying up food and goods way in advance of weather. And in many cases the weather never materializes. It is not uncommon now for groups and organizations to cancel events several days in advance of what "might" be coming. Somebody or somebodies need to step back and get this under control or it will just keep getting worse.

I did not have a problem with some of the stations starting wall to wall coverage early on Friday. Why? CAPE values were crazy, the cap was ready to break, and every indication was that whatever went up could go from nothing to severe in 15-30 minutes. The tornado risk was already especially high and the main objective was to make sure people were off the roads after 4PM. Unfortunately most people don't use common sense when dealing with the information being presented to them and freak out or use some jaded biased way of thinking that they consider accurate but isn't.

As far as this areas reaction to incoming winter storms. Well this sums it up...

i6zaVYWLTkU

In most cases here recently the bigger events have been pretty spot on about them happening. Some people think that just because your location didn't get much more than a dusting, but 20 miles away got over a foot of snow, that the entire forecast busted. That just highlights their ignorance when it comes to margins of error and snowfall forecasts...let alone ANY forecast. We look at forecast models, and I post a lot of them in the weather thread, showing where the best chances of storms popping up are. However, I always preface everything that there is always a margin of error. In the chats when I post the HRRR's simulated reflectivity (radar) images I always say - ignore the placement of the storms. What to look for is that - "hey , for the last 5 runs now it shows a line of storms... I guess that is a good indication that we could see something similar." Then you take that idea of this is what it will probably look like later but then remember that the placement could be off by 50 to 100 miles depending on how things setup that day.

Does the OKC media take it overboard? I'm not sure. The TV ratings back it up that the vast majority of the metros tunes in and wants to know what is going on. If we didn't see massive viewership numbers than they would back off some.

One other thing that I want to add about the media, and perhaps maybe one of them can chime in...

We tend to see a lot of tornadoes being reported on air, but never see a storm report actually get filed on it. Are they actually reporting these in a storm report to the NWS or are they just assuming that they are listening to the TV and will capture it themselves?

I'm just think of the Kingfisher County tornado Friday that KWTV had a live video stream of but nothing was ever put in on a LSR.

I concur that the OKC coverage is pretty extreme. . .but, happened to be in Tulsa last Thursday when the line of storms blew through there (BA/Owasso tornado). I have been "advised" that they (Tulsa area) don't have the number/intensity of storms that we have and that they split at the river and don't hit Tulsa so they don't have the experienced coverage that we do. . .but seems to me a lot track right up I-44 to pretty close to Tulsa. Anyway. . .I was very surprised at the "elementary" coverage and conversations between the guys in the studio and the ones on the ground. ..and dumbfounded/amazed at the lack of detail in the radar coverage. One conversation (can't remember which channel) consisted of the guy in studio and the guy on the ground trying to decide whether or not they could see rotation in the cloud they were watching. . . I felt like I was watching a couple of elementary school kids. Our guys do overhype but I'd rather that than feeling I'm watching coverage by people who aren't quite sure what they are doing (kind of like when Gary's "toys" didn't work. . .only these guys had nowhere to backtrack). At least, our guys provide enough specific information that I can make up my mind on what I want to do.

04xOsNW7zTA

Agree 100%. The media these days, local especially, have reached the point, where they get most everyone in almost an "apocolyptic" mindset before incoming weather events. Whether it be winter storms, severe thunder/tornadic producing storms, they(media) are responsible for the most part in people buying up food and goods way in advance of weather. And in many cases the weather never materializes. It is not uncommon now for groups and organizations to cancel events several days in advance of what "might" be coming. Somebody or somebodies need to step back and get this under control or it will just keep getting worse.

It is apocalyptic. It was the biggest tornado in history. OKC is a big city and I don't think they can hype days like Friday enough. People need to cancel events and leave work early and make plans for their safety.

Now we need our civic, state and national leadership to help us make better contingency plans for an F5 hitting a major American city other than, "Oh $hit, lots of people are going to die."

OKC is at far greater risk of the above happening than getting hit by Al Quaeda. Lets reexamine our public safety priorities.

It is apocalyptic. It was the biggest tornado in history. OKC is a big city and I don't think they can hype days like Friday enough. People need to cancel events and leave work early and make plans for their safety.

I agree.

Unfortunately, one of the huge downsides of living in OKC is having to live through days like Friday. The media however needs to not hype unless there really is a serious threat. The storm in April comes to mind. It spawned a few tornadoes but was nothing major, yet the media hyped it up beforehand.

Agree 100%. The media these days, local especially, have reached the point, where they get most everyone in almost an "apocolyptic" mindset before incoming weather events. Whether it be winter storms, severe thunder/tornadic producing storms, they(media) are responsible for the most part in people buying up food and goods way in advance of weather. And in many cases the weather never materializes. It is not uncommon now for groups and organizations to cancel events several days in advance of what "might" be coming. Somebody or somebodies need to step back and get this under control or it will just keep getting worse.

How many organizations actually do this? I can't think of any at the top of my head. Several hours, sure, a lot of groups do this.

I think there is a lot of uninformed people in this thread confusing "hype" with "forecast"...


The NWS does not have a chips in the ratings pot - and they issued a PDS watch with extremely high severe probabilities in what was MODERATE risk zone.

You must understand that a PDS watch is the rarest of the rare. The one last Friday was the second of the year for the entire nation. For the second time in two weeks there was a Tornado Emergency (This is the most heightened warning that exists) issued for a major metropolitan area. Two EF-5 tornadoes tracked very near each other in just 11 days - one of them being the widest in recorded history - and the other resulting in massive $ damage.

The above circumstances are bordering on impossible and will likely never happen again in the next 5 lifetimes.

I think there is a lot of uninformed people in this thread confusing "hype" with "forecast"...


The NWS does not have a chips in the ratings pot - and they issued a PDS watch with extremely high severe probabilities in what was MODERATE risk zone.

You must understand that a PDS watch is the rarest of the rare. The one last Friday was the second of the year for the entire nation. For the second time in two weeks there was a Tornado Emergency (This is the most heightened warning that exists) issued for a major metropolitan area. Two EF-5 tornadoes tracked very near each other in just 11 days - one of them being the widest in recorded history - and the other resulting in massive $ damage.

The above circumstances are bordering on impossible and will likely never happen again in the next 5 lifetimes.

I respect your opinion, so I ask, "how can you be sure?" In the last month, Oklahoma has experienced 2 F5s, 2 F4s, and another F3 for good measure. There was an F5 about 5 miles west of Friday's storm that struck near Calumet a couple of years ago. Is it time to consider the fact that massive killer tornadoes ar becoming more common?

On another note, the tornado emergency warnings come too late for people in a major city to react to and are really just a term of art for NWS (and not particularly useful to the warned public).

How many organizations actually do this? I can't think of any at the top of my head. Several hours, sure, a lot of groups do this.
Then you just haven't been paying attention. I'll try to write those down for you next time. Sheesh.

I respect your opinion, so I ask, "how can you be sure?" In the last month, Oklahoma has experienced 2 F5s, 2 F4s, and another F3 for good measure. There was an F5 about 5 miles west of Friday's storm that struck near Calumet a couple of years ago. Is it time to consider the fact that massive killer tornadoes ar becoming more common?

On another note, the tornado emergency warnings come too late for people in a major city to react to and are really just a term of art for NWS (and not particularly useful to the warned public).

I posted this in the other thread. Who is to say that half of the EF4/F4s that we've had in history weren't in the EF5/F5 category based solely on winds? The thing to keep in mind, without the mobile radar from OU in Canadian County on Friday - it was going down as an EF3...maybe EF4. So I personally don't think this as a case of "massive tornadoes becoming more common"...I think it is a case of technology getting better and becoming more available where we can start getting more accurate records.

Tornado Emergencies can't be called any earlier because they are there to alert people, especially first responders, that this is a serious situation in a heavily populated area. No one should be "well it's just a regular ol' tornado warning so I'll crack open another cold one until they push out a tornado emergency."

People should already be acting when the warning comes out.

I posted this in the other thread. Who is to say that half of the EF4/F4s that we've had in history weren't in the EF5/F5 category based solely on winds? The thing to keep in mind, without the mobile radar from OU in Canadian County on Friday - it was going down as an EF3...maybe EF4. So I personally don't think this as a case of "massive tornadoes becoming more common"...I think it is a case of technology getting better and becoming more available where we can start getting more accurate records.

Tornado Emergencies can't be called any earlier because they are there to alert people, especially first responders, that this is a serious situation in a heavily populated area. No one should be "well it's just a regular ol' tornado warning so I'll crack open another cold one until they push out a tornado emergency."

People should already be acting when the warning comes out.

So you don't think F5 and F4 type events are becoming more common. While I wish I agreed, I don't. Folks are buying storm shelters like never before because they've come to the disturbing realization that May 3, 1999, was not a once in a lifetime event. On May 20, it became a once in a decade event. After the additional trauma of Friday's event, one need not be a meteorologist to understand these types of "rare" storms have become far too common.

So you don't think F5 and F4 type events are becoming more common. While I wish I agreed, I don't. Folks are buying storm shelters like never before because they've come to the disturbing realization that May 3, 1999, was not a once in a lifetime event. On May 20, it became a once in a decade event. After the additional trauma of Friday's event, one need not be a meteorologist to understand these types of "rare" storms have become far too common.

So based on your statement, when flying cars become a reality, they're going to sell like hot cakes in California, so people don't have to worry about being pancaked on a double stack freeway or driving off a bridge segment that has collapsed into a bay (I know I'm using 1989 as an example but dear lord, earthquakes happen more often than not out on the west coast and they're not running)? The Big One is gonna happen one day and thousands will die when that happens. I don't see anyone packing up and leaving.

So based on your statement, when flying cars become a reality, they're going to sell like hot cakes in California, so people don't have to worry about being pancaked on a double stack freeway or driving off a bridge segment that has collapsed into a bay (I know I'm using 1989 as an example but dear lord, earthquakes happen more often than not out on the west coast and they're not running)? The Big One is gonna happen one day and thousands will die when that happens. I don't see anyone packing up and leaving.

Say wha? You drunk, bro?

My comments had zero to do with what you're talking about here. Wow.

So you don't think F5 and F4 type events are becoming more common. While I wish I agreed, I don't. Folks are buying storm shelters like never before because they've come to the disturbing realization that May 3, 1999, was not a once in a lifetime event. On May 20, it became a once in a decade event. After the additional trauma of Friday's event, one need not be a meteorologist to understand these types of "rare" storms have become far too common.

I guess it just depends on what your perception is. First and foremost...there is no such thing, technically, as an F4 or F5 anymore. That scale is dead and has been since 2007.

Between 1953 and 2007 we had 50 F5 tornadoes (old scale and excluding 1 in Canada) over 54 years so just under one a year.

Between 2007 and 2013 with the new Enhanced Fujita scale we have had 10. Four of those came in the Super Outbreak of 2011. Of course the last 3 EF5s have been in Oklahoma...2 this year and the Calumet-El Reno-Guthrie EF5 of 2011. The May 31st El Reno EF5 of course sticks out as being a radar verified and not damage verified. So if we had more radar coverage, I would expect the number go up. However if it would go up too much, that would probably mean the EF Scale would need to be adjusted.

If we look at borderline F4/F5 tornadoes from the prior scale, that's another 20 tornadoes that would probably be considered EF5s with the new scale. So now we are looking at 80 tornadoes that could fall in the EF5 range over the last 63 years which of course works out to more than 1 a year...or more accurately 2 every 3-4 years give or take.

People that think large damaging tornadoes are once in a lifetime event are just naive. What we are seeing is people are becoming more aware of just how frequent these events are. You're own comment reflects that. Your post mentions that is a once a decade event since May 20th happened, but completely disregarding the 2 other violent tornadoes that were in Moore since 99.

Say wha? You drunk, bro?

My comments had zero to do with what you're talking about here. Wow.

Nope not drunk at all. Quite sober to be honest.

Storm shelter sales in Oklahoma = hot cakes due to massive tornadoes.
Possibility of flying car sales in California = hot cakes due to not being on the ground for the Big One or any other significant earthquake of a higher magnitude

^^The above is an analogy for the commonality of the two items...neither of which are a "rarity" based on your post.

Get it?

The tornado risk was already especially high and the main objective was to make sure people were off the roads after 4PM.

If that was the objective, then the media gets a massive "fail" because, far from having folks off the road, they sent them back out onto them.


Unfortunately most people don't use common sense when dealing with the information being presented to them and freak out or use some jaded biased way of thinking that they consider accurate but isn't.

Hmmm...what kind of common sense is needed to know that the person with a degree in meteorology who is telling you to "drive south" is dead wrong and is leading you into the path of the storm?

If that was the objective, then the media gets a massive "fail" because, far from having folks off the road, they sent them back out onto them.

Agreed.


Hmmm...what kind of common sense is needed to know that the person with a degree in meteorology who is telling you to "drive south" is dead wrong and is leading you into the path of the storm?

Change the channel to someone who is more reputable or person just listen to the folks at NWS Norman? :)

i will also note that no one told anybody to drive into flowing water crossing the street ..

i will also note that no one told anybody to drive into flowing water crossing the street ..

That is where the common sense part of my statement comes in. :) People lack it severely. Water covering the road, don't go in. It is take simple. Of course people feel that they are superior, or it isn't deep, or whatever else false notion and then their car stalls out or gets taken away...well Darwin is a punk. :)

Change the channel to someone who is more reputable or person just listen to the folks at NWS Norman? :)

I did. And even though I chose to leave my house and drive 90 degrees away from the storm path towards Edmond (and was out of range in about 6 miles) , my co-worker was listening to another channel and fled to Shawnee...then Seminole...then Ada...to try and escape the path.

I think there is a lot of uninformed people in this thread confusing "hype" with "forecast"...

"Forecast" is knowing the odds are great of a major severe weather episode and making people aware of it in advance. "Forecast" is, on the day of the event, covering up at least one commercial in every break to remind people of the extreme possibility of severe weather and to remind them to keep an eye on things, up to the point of the actual weather event. "Hype" is blowing out all programming and telling folks, "Here it comes...it's not here yet....wait for it....wait for it...OMG! THERE IT IS! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!"

"Forecast" is knowing the odds are great of a major severe weather episode and making people aware of it in advance. "Forecast" is, on the day of the event, covering up at least one commercial in every break to remind people of the extreme possibility of severe weather and to remind them to keep an eye on things, up to the point of the actual weather event. "Hype" is blowing out all programming and telling folks, "Here it comes...it's not here yet....wait for it....wait for it...OMG! THERE IT IS! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!"


The forecast called for an extreme situation building. Thus the "hype" was not hype, but it was simply the reality of what the conditions presented at the time. Would you rather them cut in from regular programming during explosive supercell development west of the metro?

Not everyone is watching television all the time. Some people have no clue until they see ominous clouds in the distance and then check television. And what if they saw regular programming? Maybe they would think there was no big deal.

Everyone in Oklahoma knows there is potential for serious business when the local media move to wall-to-wall coverage.

I was at home hunkered down, flipping between 4, 5 and 9, seeing if I needed to go to the nearby shelter (I didn't). The worst was when KWTV broadcast their helicopter shot from south of downtown looking north, and framed in the shot were the "parking lots" on Santa Fe, Shields and I-35, with the storm bearing down on them from the west. There were thousands of people there, fully-exposed sitting ducks, waiting for nature to have its way with them. Thank God that the storm didn't stay on the ground or there could easily be hundreds dead and thousands injured.

Those weren't people still driving home from work seeking the shelter of their homes. Those were people who left the safety of their homes because Mike Morgan told them to. And when the tornado didn't get them, they were left exposed to the flood waters, power lines, open manholes and blocked roads. A hundred panicked people stormed into a convenience store, breaking the glass front door.

Is this acceptable - scaring unprepared, unequipped people out into a storm at night?

Great thing you have checked w/ all of these people to be so sure that they were only out there because all them were watching KFOR

Would you rather them cut in from regular programming during explosive supercell development west of the metro?

YES! When it's not even raining, there's no good reason to amp people up even though the conditions are ripe. Keep them informed and updated, but don't cry "fire" until a fire really breaks out.


Everyone in Oklahoma knows there is potential for serious business when the local media move to wall-to-wall coverage.

Oh, there's more rules than that. I can flip on a station and tell you within 5 seconds if it's serious or not simply by seeing if it's the main met or the morning guy doing the cut-in. I'm not saying Friday wasn't serious. We know after the fact that it was. But we were also saying several days ahead of times that it was going to be as bad as May 20th or worse and we did NOT know that. We only knew the potential was there. This is why Oklahomans become desensitized to weather warnings. The more we ramp things up, the harder it is to distinguish when to worry and when not to. Frankly, I kinda blame KOCO for a bunch of this. It's been apparent for some time that they're doing everything they can to try and establish themselves as the weather authority in the metro...and so they go into wall-to-wall a little quicker and continue stick with it when 4 & 9 have gone back to programming. That was happening even before Rick Mitchell left.

Edited to add: My comment about KOCO is based upon the knowledge that all the stations watch each other and keep tabs on how often and how long the other stations are cutting in. It shouldn't be this way, but part of the decision making in when to cut in and when to go wall to wall is based upon what the other stations are doing.

People do live outside of OKC... And I know it is hard to imagine, but some of these people have TV and are able to view the same local channels! :pat_head:

We know after the fact that it was. But we were also saying several days ahead of times that it was going to be as bad as May 20th or worse and we did NOT know that. We only knew the potential was there.

I'm as anti-hype as they come, but I don't get this statement. As the days progressed, I saw nothing from any respectable meteorologist that didn't suggest things were looking worse as the forecast evolved. We absolutely knew that the meteorological ingredients were prime for a mulit-storm, multi-tornado event.

I'm not sure what kind of a hair-split you're wanting by saying "we only knew the potential was there." Mets knew that when the storms started, they'd go up in minutes, probably rotating, and going severe almost all at the same time. And that's exactly what they did. Are you suggesting there should be no coverage until the first tornado is physically on the ground doing damage? Or when the first funnel is sighted? Or when the first hook signature on radar is detected? When? What line do you want to have drawn over what's acceptable and what isn't?

Mind you, I say and ask this as someone who LOATHES the ratings-driven hype nonsense in this market by some. But I just can't get my head around what you were expecting in terms of TV coverage for last Friday other than what unfolded. You say keep people "informed and updated," but what do you mean by that? Specifically? Its easy to criticize from a distance in broad strokes, but the hard part is translating those broad strokes into hard, specific recommendations.

Cumulus fields were going up in the OKC area all over town Friday afternoon, even after some of the storms in the NE part of the state had started up. Heck, I thought some were building virtually along 89th. They can't pinpoint startups that closely, so a best-level of granularity is about all they can do. What are you wanting? And I mean that not sarcastically, but honestly. What do you really want?

Are you suggesting there should be no coverage until the first tornado is physically on the ground doing damage? Or when the first funnel is sighted? Or when the first hook signature on radar is detected? When? What line do you want to have drawn over what's acceptable and what isn't?

No, I'm suggesting we wait to go wall-to-wall until it's at least raining. Since we're talking in extremes, are you saying that's too late? I'm not saying there shouldn't have been warnings. There most certainly should have been and had been for several days prior. With over-coverage...especially when nothing has really developed yet...we run the risk of viewers tuning us out and switching to a channel where they may or may not receive timely warnings. It's a balancing act, but an important one, I believe. Also...we don't really know what's going to happen. We know when the conditions are right and can give a percentage of the probability it will happen, but nobody truly knows until it goes down. I think we had the "ice storm of the century" that didn't happen earlier this year, didn't we?

...I just can't get my head around what you were expecting in terms of TV coverage for last Friday other than what unfolded. You say keep people "informed and updated," but what do you mean by that? Specifically? Its easy to criticize from a distance in broad strokes, but the hard part is translating those broad strokes into hard, specific recommendations.

Sorry...I didn't see this question earlier. Here's the levels of what should be considered from a station's point of view. #1 If nothing has developed yet, but there's a strong possibility, cover part of the commercial break. Depending upon the severity, cover more than one or an entire break. The rule used to be to cover a PSA first (but nobody runs those anymore), next choice would be a promo, third choice would be a commercial. The commercial is last because it costs money. You could argue that a promo costs money, too, because it bumps a commercial out of the break, but that's not relevant to this discussion. #2 If things heat up...there's no tornado on the ground, but it looks like there's a chance of it happening before the next break, you interrupt programming while keeping an eye on the content of the show. The rule used to be that you don't want to cover up the point in the show where they reveal who the killer is just so you can tell folks that nothing is happening. The worst example I ever saw of this was years ago on the final episode of "Barney Miller" when Fred Norman cut in on the tail of the show and covered Barney's final thoughts on his life in the police station, only so Fred could let us know that there was no danger at present, but stay tuned just in case. Ch. 5 came back to the show just in time to see Barney turn out the lights and close the door. #3 If there's a tornado on the ground or a lowering that's about to touch down...cut 'em and go, no questions asked. You want more specific than that?

#2 If things heat up...there's no tornado on the ground, but it looks like there's a chance of it happening before the next break, you interrupt programming while keeping an eye on the content of the show.

And you just cracked the golden easter egg. "Looks like it might" happen....where? Within 50 miles of the station? 100 mlies? 150 miles? Broadcast area? The key here is that the stations aren't narrowcasting to a few folks, there going statewide to hundreds of thousands of folks, so to say "there's a chance" overlooks that it maybe a 0% chance in Norman, but a 90% chance in Lawton with a storm bearing down.

As far as "covering part of the commercial," that's what I"ve seen the local guys - esp KWTV as of late - do. In fact, prior to this last round, I think KWTV had hedged more on being conservative than at any time I can remember.

I'm sure its an educational experience to some to watch how fast a "boring" cumulus cloud can overcome the cap to become a full blown thunderstorm cable of producing in 45mins. The media wouldn't have been watching clouds for over 45mins beforehand if the storm initialization wasn't happening so close to major populated areas.

And you just cracked the golden easter egg. "Looks like it might" happen....where? Within 50 miles of the station? 100 mlies? 150 miles? Broadcast area?


Anywhere within the broadcast area. You're right...it's not just OKC that's relying upon the weather coverage. However, it's possible to take things too far. I remember one night having to stay at the station until 3am doing cut-ins for a storm that was moving into the Grove area...WAY out of our viewing range. We asked the meteorologist (who shall remain nameless) if it was really neccessary to continue doing cut-ins when the storm was so far out of our area. He said, "I'm doing them for those who may have boats on Grand Lake." Seriously? When we talked to our boss about it, one guy said, "When you get the ratings for that time period, I don't think you'll have to worry about what the numbers were. There were so few people watching, they'll probably list them individually by name." lol I think there was something else going on last Friday that caused an inordinate amount of people to decide that fleeing was their best option...and I think it's unfair to blame it all on Mike Morgan. I've since talked to several friends and they all chose to leave their homes. Luckily, they went north and were able to avoid the storm pretty easily. What I'm finding weird is that these guys don't normally do this. They're pretty typical Okies in that they've lived here all their lives, are used to this stuff, and don't spook easily. So...something else was up that night, I think. I just haven't decided quite what it was exactly.

I saw this posted on the Lost Ogle. Not much hype when your chasers don't have laptops, cellular towers to broadcast live video, tornado chasing helicopters, or Dominators.


I wonder if Venture was actually chasing this thing back when the roads were not flooded with amateur chasers? lol


c7DjhTQtkro#!

I'm afraid I'm not that advanced in years yet. :) I started chasing in 1996, in Oklahoma the following year. Which honestly I didn't notice a massive congestion problem until probably 2005-2006. It was so wonderful back then. You could get a storm all to yourself to enjoy out in the middle of nowhere and sometimes meet some really nice folks. Anymore it is a bunch of amped up thrill seeking testosterone pumped college kids that think they are amazing.

Some day I really need to go back and get all my old videos and pictures together and put them online.

I'm afraid I'm not that advanced in years yet. :) I started chasing in 1996, in Oklahoma the following year. Which honestly I didn't notice a massive congestion problem until probably 2005-2006. It was so wonderful back then. You could get a storm all to yourself to enjoy out in the middle of nowhere and sometimes meet some really nice folks. Anymore it is a bunch of amped up thrill seeking testosterone pumped college kids that think they are amazing.

Some day I really need to go back and get all my old videos and pictures together and put them online.

that would be sweet

Great thing you have checked w/ all of these people to be so sure that they were only out there because all them were watching KFOR

Mike Morgan is the one who has been universally faulted for advising people to leave the area if they couldn't get below ground. Nevertheless, you're calling me out on this? Seriously?

traffic was bad all evening/afternoon long and tons of people from out of state staying in travel trailers, etc that likely hit the roads. The roads would have been packed regardless or what Morgan said

traffic was bad all evening/afternoon long and tons of people from out of state staying in travel trailers, etc that likely hit the roads. The roads would have been packed regardless or what Morgan said

Even more reason not to try to send half of a major American city out on to the roads. It was a monumental lack of judgement and he by no means deserves a pass.

You're own comment reflects that. Your post mentions that is a once a decade event since May 20th happened, but completely disregarding the 2 other violent tornadoes that were in Moore since 99.

It sounds like we agree here. My whole post was about the fact that very large tornadoes are NOT rare, which is how they are presented. And my point was that these are NOT once in a decade events. It sounds like we agree here.

No, I'm suggesting we wait to go wall-to-wall until it's at least raining. Since we're talking in extremes, are you saying that's too late? I'm not saying there shouldn't have been warnings. There most certainly should have been and had been for several days prior. With over-coverage...especially when nothing has really developed yet...we run the risk of viewers tuning us out and switching to a channel where they may or may not receive timely warnings. It's a balancing act, but an important one, I believe. Also...we don't really know what's going to happen. We know when the conditions are right and can give a percentage of the probability it will happen, but nobody truly knows until it goes down. I think we had the "ice storm of the century" that didn't happen earlier this year, didn't we?

Nope. If anything, I think they could have started coverage sooner. As it was, they started coverage when the super cells began to form. It would have been foolish for them to have waited.

traffic was bad all evening/afternoon long and tons of people from out of state staying in travel trailers, etc that likely hit the roads. The roads would have been packed regardless or what Morgan said

That's nice, but Morgan hasn't said anything since about making an error in judgement and Channel 4 actually aired a promo that reused what Morgan said that Friday night. If he believes outrunning a tornado in a car is safer than staying put in your house, he should just go out and say it. Then others in the weather industry can formally disagree with him.

Of course, there are certain residences that are not a good place to be like a mobile home or house that's basically a shack, but there cannot be blanket statements that say everyone in the path of the tornado need to evacuate.

Even more reason not to try to send half of a major American city out on to the roads. It was a monumental lack of judgement and he by no means deserves a pass.

I don't believe he should have said it but i don't think half the city was on the roads because of what he said