Some of you are seriously going to have to wake up and smell the coffee. People this deep in ‘denial’ should be finding Egyptian artifacts by now. Alas, even Hitler and the KKK had supporters outside their ranks.

Some of you are seriously going to have to wake up and smell the coffee. People this deep in ‘denial’ should be finding Egyptian artifacts by now. Alas, even Hitler and the KKK had supporters outside their ranks.

Deep in denial about what? Wanting to wait until the facts come out before we jump to conclusions?

folks listening to boston police scanners say that they've got the suspect on the ground at gunpoint. apparently he's got some sort of device strapped to himself. -M

folks listening to boston police scanners say that they've got the suspect on the ground at gunpoint. apparently he's got some sort of device strapped to himself. -M

I hope they take him alive, I want to know what was behind their rampage.

ok... now i'm hearing that this is not the primary suspect (dzhokhar tsarnaev) but a 60-70 yo male with a suspicious device. -M

i can't listen to this in the office... but here's one of the scanners: MA Rt. 9 Window Cam on USTREAM: A live look outside my window. Other 24/7 (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ma-rt-9-window-cam)

-M

i can't listen to this in the office... but here's one of the scanners: MA Rt. 9 Window Cam on USTREAM: A live look outside my window. Other 24/7 (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ma-rt-9-window-cam)

-M


That's pretty cool

Definitely interesting to listen to. Thanks.

One of the suspects look like a young Bob Dylan.

Deep in denial about what? Wanting to wait until the facts come out before we jump to conclusions?

Dude - the facts at the root of this issue are pretty well known. If you don't know them turn on the news.

Dude - the facts at the root of this issue are pretty well known. If you don't know them turn on the news.

What facts are those and what's the root of the issue?

What facts are those and what's the root of the issue?

they had a pretty extensive interview .. with one of the brothers boxing coaches .. he was described as a devout muslim that was very disenchanted with the immoral America

they had a pretty extensive interview .. with one of the brothers boxing coaches .. he was described as a devout muslim that was very disenchanted with the immoral America


I haven't heard that but that fits a lot of people, not just Muslims. Still doesn't make him part of an Islamic terrorist group and I still prefer to wait for more facts come in. jmho

added: Be interesting to see if it is extreme Islamic terrorism if they learned it here in the US since they came here at a young age.

Before painting a group of people with an extremely broad brush, I encourage you to listen to what the murderers' uncles had to say. While expressing sorrow and shame for what the two brothers have done, they have emphatically repudiated the boys' actions. One uncle made a statement that hopefully will not be disregarded by the anti-Muslim demigods - he expressed his love for the US and gratitude for being allowed to live in a country that permits him to feel like and be treated as a human being. He seems to be a good person and someone I would welcome as a neighbor.

Interview Of Ruslan Tsarni, Uncle Of Alleged Boston Marathon Bomber/Terrorists (VIDEO) (http://egbertowillies.com/2013/04/19/interview-of-ruslan-tsarni-uncle-of-alleged-boston-marathon-bomberterrorists-video/)

Be interesting to see if it is extreme Islamic terrorism if they learned it here in the US since they came here at a young age.

And that, right there, is the most alarming part.

And although some people are frothing at the mouth at the nerve of people "jumping to conclusions," please don't try to twist my comments about radical islam to try to include your everyday Muslim. I mean you, CaptDave, if you are trying to suggest that attacking radical extremism includes people like the Uncle. We can't have an honest conversation if you won't be honest about what people are saying - correct?

I haven't heard that but that fits a lot of people, not just Muslims. Still doesn't make him part of an Islamic terrorist group and I still prefer to wait for more facts come in. jmho

added: Be interesting to see if it is extreme Islamic terrorism if they learned it here in the US since they came here at a young age.

The interview was part of what I based on my comments on. Glad to see you are opening your mind to actually consider rational possibilities now that you are keying in on some of the reported information the rest of us are looking at.

And although some people are frothing at the mouth at the nerve of people "jumping to conclusions," please don't try to twist my comments about radical islam to try to include your everyday Muslim. I mean you, CaptDave, if you are trying to suggest that attacking radical extremism includes people like the Uncle. We can't have an honest conversation if you won't be honest about what people are saying - correct?

You have an interesting way of characterizing people then playing innocent. Passive aggressive much?

I haven't heard that but that fits a lot of people, not just Muslims. Still doesn't make him part of an Islamic terrorist group and I still prefer to wait for more facts come in. jmho

added: Be interesting to see if it is extreme Islamic terrorism if they learned it here in the US since they came here at a young age.

it was just read as a transcript on ABC about an hour ago

And although some people are frothing at the mouth at the nerve of people "jumping to conclusions," please don't try to twist my comments about radical islam to try to include your everyday Muslim. I mean you, CaptDave, if you are trying to suggest that attacking radical extremism includes people like the Uncle. We can't have an honest conversation if you won't be honest about what people are saying - correct?

Look at your post again on the other thread. Take some of your own advice would be my advice. You aren't innocent in this and your last post there was very provocative. It can't be an honest conversation if you are already approaching it with a bias to one side from the start.

Regardless of the typical BS that seems to be spilling over from the Politics cesspool, we are definitely learning more now. They were both fully naturalized citizens that sought asylum here. They (at least one) were born in one of the neighboring regions and not Chechnya specifically according to the uncle. However, the biggest concern out of all of this are kids 13 and 9 that came over and likely developed their views on US soil. Just another example of growing extremism in our country, something we've been relatively sheltered from compared to other regions...except of course for the major attacks and events that have taken place.

Growing violence is something that needs to be taken care of. Whether it is a bombing in Boston or a shooting in Detroit that kills more people.

guys... again, this is not the politics tab. -M

I don't consider calling this as I see it as being anything less than being honest and I have zero interest in being PC under these facts. The overwhelming information coming out of this situation leads to the conclusion that these people aren't crazy and they worked together - a conspiracy. Their background, their social media comments, their lifestyle (especially the older one), their choice of bombs, their personal history, all scream radical islam and I refuse to be so afraid of the truth that I won't mention it. They have video/photos of the second suspect - now identified - putting down the bomb and blowing away surrounding people.

If you want to argue that this is just a lark or that they have some sort of different motivation besides the obvious, go for it. That is PC and applauded by people who don't want to face the truth because it is uncomfortable and conflicts with the narrative that anyone who sees radical islam as a threat hates all muslims and is a mouthbreathing red neck. Please. If would be different if we hadn't seen this pattern, before. Everything from the type of bomb used, to the rhetoric, to the family background, to the interviews and comments, etc., screams radical islam. Not one thing suggests anything different. There comes a point where being PC in the face of the facts is irrational and we passed it a long time ago.

ETA: MMM, sorry, I was working on this while you posted and didn't see your comment before I hit enter.

Boston police scanner here.............
Boston Police, Fire and EMS Scanner - Boston, MA - Listen Online (http://tunein.com/radio/Boston-Police-Fire-and-EMS-Scanner-s146109/#)

Before painting a group of people with an extremely broad brush, I encourage you to listen to what the murderers' uncles had to say. While expressing sorrow and shame for what the two brothers have done, they have emphatically repudiated the boys' actions. One uncle made a statement that hopefully will not be disregarded by the anti-Muslim demigods - he expressed his love for the US and gratitude for being allowed to live in a country that permits him to feel like and be treated as a human being. He seems to be a good person and someone I would welcome as a neighbor.

Interview Of Ruslan Tsarni, Uncle Of Alleged Boston Marathon Bomber/Terrorists (VIDEO) (http://egbertowillies.com/2013/04/19/interview-of-ruslan-tsarni-uncle-of-alleged-boston-marathon-bomberterrorists-video/)

Now if only we could get some people on OKCTalk to have the same moral fortitude as the uncle. The problem we have is too many sympathizer and deniers. Saying THESE two guys are militant Muslim terrorist IS NOT saying all Muslims are terrorist – but to be honest, all these denialist who for some reason try to hide behind that alleged accusation are making the rest of us have second thoughts on the subject.

I don't consider calling this as I see it as being anything less than being honest and I have zero interest in being PC under these facts. The overwhelming information coming out of this situation leads to the conclusion that these people aren't crazy and they worked together - a conspiracy. Their background, their social media comments, their lifestyle (especially the older one), their choice of bombs, their personal history, all scream radical islam and I refuse to be so afraid of the truth that I won't mention it. They have video/photos of the second suspect - now identified - putting down the bomb and blowing away surrounding people.

If you want to argue that this is just a lark or that they have some sort of different motivation besides the obvious, go for it. That is PC and applauded by people who don't want to face the truth because it is uncomfortable and conflicts with the narrative that anyone who sees radical islam as a threat hates all muslims and is a mouthbreathing red neck. Please. If would be different if we hadn't seen this pattern, before. Everything from the type of bomb used, to the rhetoric, to the family background, to the interviews and comments, etc., screams radical islam. Not one thing suggests anything different. There comes a point where being PC in the face of the facts is irrational and we passed it a long time ago.

ETA: MMM, sorry, I was working on this while you posted and didn't see your comment before I hit enter.

I don't have a problem with this post, particularly because you state you are calling it "as you see it." That means it's an opinion, and it very well may be true. The fact is we don't know yet.

I saw the younger man's Twitter posts and it didn't scream radical Muslim to me. If anything, he seems remarkably irreligious.

I look forward to finding out what his motivations are, which is why I hope they take him alive, because I cannot presume to know.

For greater clarity, think of Tim McVeigh. It's not completely accurate to describe his motivations as "anti-government." Yes, he became that way, but he became that way as a result of actions at Ruby Ridge and Waco.

Hopefully this will provide us greater understanding as we learn more.

Now if only we could get some people on OKCTalk to have the same moral fortitude as the uncle. The problem we have is too many sympathizer and deniers. Saying THESE two guys are militant Muslim terrorist IS NOT saying all Muslims are terrorist – but to be honest, all these denialist who for some reason try to hide behind that alleged accusation are making the rest of us have second thoughts on the subject.

God forbid anyone have a second thought on something we don't know the facts to yet.

I don't have a problem with this post, particularly because you state you are calling it "as you see it." That means it's an opinion, and it very well may be true. The fact is we don't know yet.

I saw the younger man's Twitter posts and it didn't scream radical Muslim to me. If anything, he seems remarkably irreligious.

I look forward to finding out what his motivations are, which is why I hope they take him alive, because I cannot presume to know.

For greater clarity, think of Tim McVeigh. It's not completely accurate to describe his motivations as "anti-government." Yes, he became that way, but he became that way as a result of actions at Ruby Ridge and Waco.

Hopefully this will provide us greater understanding as we learn more.

At this point we really don't know much at all on the motives for why he did any of this. We has as much of a reason to label them radical islamists as we do labeling McVeigh a radical Catholic. Sure he was baptised Catholic, received the sacraments, but nothing to link the religion to his actions. He was also a long time card carrying member of the NRA and a Libertarian. I would think twice about avoiding linking his actions to those groups of people. Same should go here. Unless we are able to know exactly why they did this, we shouldn't link their actions directly to a group of people.

Kerry you mention the label "militant Muslin terrorist". Why not "militant male teenage/20-something curly dark haired legal US citizen immigrant Chechen terrorist"? There seems to be a need to immediately label the religion as part of this, but ignore all the other identifying attributes of the person. What's wrong with just calling them for what they are...a terrorist and be done with it.

Now if only we could get some people on OKCTalk to have the same moral fortitude as the uncle. The problem we have is too many sympathizer and deniers. Saying THESE two guys are militant Muslim terrorist IS NOT saying all Muslims are terrorist – but to be honest, all these denialist who for some reason try to hide behind that alleged accusation are making the rest of us have second thoughts on the subject.

All anyone has said is there is no way to know if their motivation was radical Islam and Chechen nationalism - so explain how being rational and measured is suddenly sympathizing and denying. The latest report I heard is the older brother visited Russia and nothing about the usual Muslim militant locations. They were completely unprepared for anything after they dropped their backpacks in the crowd - not indicative of anyone that had been trained by terror groups. Ever since the FBI revealed their identity, they have not done anything that demonstrates they have a clue what they are doing.

It is a very good thing a few people on OKCTalk have nothing to do with law enforcement or the criminal justice system - we do not need people who cannot see past their bias and have a tendency to jump to conclusions without knowing much of anything other than their own fears.

On a positive note, the MBTA Police Officer is out of surgery and stable now. Hopefully no one else will be harmed by that kid.

This isn't law enforcement, CaptDave and it isn't about "fear," much as you want to present it like that. It has to do with the way the older brother, especially, presented himself in terms of radical Islam and the absence of evidence, to date, of a political agenda. What part of that can't you grasp?

And no one is saying this is about Chechen nationalism - only that the area is full of violent islamic radicals with a history of very violent acts.

This isn't law enforcement, CaptDave and it isn't about "fear," much as you want to present it like that. It has to do with the way the older brother, especially, presented himself in terms of radical Islam and the absence of evidence, to date, of a political agenda. What part of that can't you grasp?

Terrorism isn't about fear? What political agenda has the older brother presented?

This isn't law enforcement, CaptDave and it isn't about "fear," much as you want to present it like that. It has to do with the way the older brother, especially, presented himself in terms of radical Islam and the absence of evidence, to date, of a political agenda. What part of that can't you grasp?

Terror = fear. Terrorism is all about impact and causing fear.


And no one is saying this is about Chechen nationalism - only that the area is full of violent islamic radicals with a history of very violent acts.

So why the personal need of yours to label him as an islamic terrorist instead of just a terrorist? If we are going to ignore his ethnic background as a label, why jump to a possible religious one?

He's a terrorist. Why extend the label anymore except to drive a personal bias? Now if we come to the finding that radical islam or other teachings are the reason for their actions, that shouldn't change anything on the way we label him. Unless the intent is to further label and divide.

All anyone has said is there is no way to know if their motivation was radical Islam and Chechen nationalism - so explain how being rational and measured is suddenly sympathizing and denying. The latest report I heard is the older brother visited Russia and nothing about the usual Muslim militant locations. They were completely unprepared for anything after they dropped their backpacks in the crowd - not indicative of anyone that had been trained by terror groups. Ever since the FBI revealed their identity, they have not done anything that demonstrates they have a clue what they are doing.

It is a very good thing a few people on OKCTalk have nothing to do with law enforcement or the criminal justice system - we do not need people who cannot see past their bias and have a tendency to jump to conclusions without knowing much of anything other than their own fears.

On a positive note, the MBTA Police Officer is out of surgery and stable now. Hopefully no one else will be harmed by that kid.

Okay then, feel free to stand by and wait. However, because I can put two and two to get four doesn't making me biased or have an irrational fear.

So why the personal need of yours to label him as an islamic terrorist instead of just a terrorist? If we are going to ignore his ethnic background as a label, why jump to a possible religious one?

He's a terrorist. Why extend the label anymore except to drive a personal bias? Now if we come to the finding that radical islam or other teachings are the reason for their actions, that shouldn't change anything on the way we label him. Unless the intent is to further label and divide.

It is a sad indication the terrorists have had the effect they desired on a number of American citizens. Fear is what causes normally rational people to reflexively jump to conclusions in the aftermath of an event such as Boston, or OKC, or.....

Thankfully these people are rarely involved in actually combatting events like this. Clear headed, objective thinking is far more preferable to blind assumptions. PQ may eventually end up being correct about the murderers' motivations, but to ignore other possibilities is reckless and foolish.

Father of Lone Terrorist Threatens To Unleash Hell On USA If Son Is Touched // Mr. Conservative (http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/04/12427-father-of-lone-terrorist-threatens-to-unleash-hell-on-usa-if-son-is-touched/)

I saw part of that interview. I wonder what happened that prompted him to return to Russia leaving his sons here. The brothers' uncles both seem to be good people and one of them indicated some sort of family issue had occurred. The father's response is completely opposite of the other family members.

Easy to assume the sons take after the Father and the Father left b/c he didn't like the culture. Wish the sons would have done the same.

Easy to assume the sons take after the Father and the Father left b/c he didn't like the culture. Wish the sons would have done the same.

Why is it easy to assume that? When did the father leave? You forget to mention that the father also said... The father of a suspected Boston Marathon bomber called on his son today to give up peacefully.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/boston-bomb-suspects-dad-tells-son-surrender-hell/story?id=18995936#.UXGmQkoxg4I

Why do YOU assume -
You forget to mention that the father also said... The father of a suspected Boston Marathon bomber called on his son today to give up peacefully.
Frankly I was not aware of that bit of information.

Also I assumed it b/c of the Fathers threat to do harm to America even though his son killed and maimed many in Boston.

There are different types of terrorists with different motivations and goals. A radical Islamist terrorists is not the same as a extremist militia type. It's useful to know what type of terrorist we are dealing with here. All signs point to these guys being motivated by their religious beliefs. What's wrong with pointing that out?

Over 12 hours since last seen. This is professional hide and seek - or he is long gone. Or perhaps he is injured and bleeding out in somebody's attic/base/shed/garage with them totally unaware.


Would be truly amazing if he got out of there and this massive city search is all for nothing.

Terror = fear. Terrorism is all about impact and causing fear.



So why the personal need of yours to label him as an islamic terrorist instead of just a terrorist? If we are going to ignore his ethnic background as a label, why jump to a possible religious one?

He's a terrorist. Why extend the label anymore except to drive a personal bias? Now if we come to the finding that radical islam or other teachings are the reason for their actions, that shouldn't change anything on the way we label him. Unless the intent is to further label and divide.
Why do you have some sort of personal need to be at all concerned that I might -gasp-chalk it up to Islamic extremism? I could see a raised eyebrow if I was just attributing this to being a muslim - but I didn't. And I'm not displaying a bit of bias against anyone but your garden variety terrorist. Are you actually arguing that it is okay to say someone is a terrorist, but demanding that no one speculate the underlying motive? Why?? Are there pc terrorists and non pc terrorists? Are we to ignore the strong evidence in this case? Do you seriously think I have a personal bias against islamic terrorism but would give Timothy McVeigh a pass?? How insulting. I refuse to pretend I don't notice all the evidence that these guys were murderous fanatics and that the only thing that "fits" based on their own words is Islamic extremism. Why would I do that? You go ahead and fight the good fight to insist that other people treat one type of terrorist as more protected than another. I don't see the point and think it is unseemly to try to school others in being PC - especially under these facts. If I end up being wrong, I'll admit it. It is one thing to speculate and call it wrong. You, however, aren't just saying hold your horses - you are all into personal bias and seeing malice when it isn't there. Please stop judging my heart, will you?

shots fired in watertown... -M

Why do you have some sort of personal need to be at all concerned that I might -gasp-chalk it up to Islamic extremism? I could see a raised eyebrow if I was just attributing this to being a muslim - but I didn't. And I'm not displaying a bit of bias against anyone but your garden variety terrorist. Are you actually arguing that it is okay to say someone is a terrorist, but demanding that no one speculate the underlying motive? Why?? Are there pc terrorists and non pc terrorists? Are we to ignore the strong evidence in this case? Do you seriously think I have a personal bias against islamic terrorism but would give Timothy McVeigh a pass?? How insulting. I refuse to pretend I don't notice all the evidence that these guys were murderous fanatics and that the only thing that "fits" based on their own words is Islamic extremism. Why would I do that? You go ahead and fight the good fight to insist that other people treat one type of terrorist as more protected than another. I don't see the point and think it is unseemly to try to school others in being PC - especially under these facts. If I end up being wrong, I'll admit it. It is one thing to speculate and call it wrong. You, however, aren't just saying hold your horses - you are all into personal bias and seeing malice when it isn't there. Please stop judging my heart, will you?

I'm definitely not saying that we can't speculate on motive, but it is also important to stick to facts and not pass them off as facts. Are there indications that they are extremists? Anyone that does this is. Is it religious motivated? Who knows. We won't know until we get him to talk or find other resources that are credible.

Who is treating one type of terrorist as more protected than the other? That is just assine. I won't respond to the rest of your post because it is just not even worthy.

Listening to MA Rt. 9 Window Cam on USTREAM: A live look outside my window. Other 24/7 (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ma-rt-9-window-cam)

They got him surrounded getting ready to move in.

Yup, sounds like he is unconscious on a boat. Deployed tear gas and dummy bullets.

Is anyone else watching KOCO? They are streaming live from their sister station WCVB. I'm really impressed with the anchors and reporters.

Yup, sounds like he is unconscious on a boat. Deployed tear gas and dummy bullets.

Really hope they get him alive.

Yup, sounds like he is unconscious on a boat. Deployed tear gas and dummy bullets.

Yeah seems like this is almost over.

They are about to tear the tarp off the boat to expose him.

Sounds like he is still alive in the back of the boat. Waiting on officers in the line of fire to get out of the way.

I am almost positive the boat is on land, not in water. In case someone is picturing this unfolding on water.

This looks like the place:

http://i.imgur.com/mBsLBh0.png

Right after Mr. Clean and Tillamook Cheese make their pitch.

I am almost positive the boat is on land, not in water. In case someone is picturing this unfolding on water.

This looks like the place:

http://i.imgur.com/mBsLBh0.png
Do you have a link to that address on Google Maps?

Tarp is off they have eyes on them. He isn't moving anymore it appears.

Edit: Or not. Pretty chaotic still. LOL Tarp is still on but no movement as of 10 seconds ago.

He just sat up and is moving around now.

Sounds like they're going to burn it...


Dorner 2.0 anyone?

They are apparently going in...radio silence.

Flash bang sent in he didn't move.

i think they got him but can't confirmed it untill they say on the scanner