This project is now underway:

Lincoln Park Golf Course is a 36-hole championship course located at 4001 NE Grand Boulevard. It is Oklahoma City’s oldest public golf course, built by the Citivan Club and donated to the City in 1921. The current clubhouse was constructed in 1960.

Oklahoma City Public Property Authority authorized the $9.25 million project in June 2012, which will raze the aging clubhouse and replace it with a 32,000 square foot new building that will include multi-purpose facilities. The new project will position Lincoln Clubhouse to attract golf tournaments and events for up to 250 people. Oklahoma City views public golf facilities as economic development tools because they generate operational revenues to support the public golf system and help local businesses attract top talent to the City.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lincolnclubhouse.jpg

There will also be a new driving range facility:

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/315626_434053863319227_1388696863_n.jpg

Wow, that looks VERY NICE. And, of course, long overdue. BUT, I will say that as munies go, the OKC courses are always VERY WELL maintained for play... so it never bothered me that they seemed to sacrifice updated clubhouses for better golf. But, this is great to see.

Lincoln West was always my favorite public course and the setting in general is really beautiful.

Look forward to seeing this completed, as it will make something good into something great.


I'm trying to get my hands on more renderings, especially of the interior. Will post when/if I receive.

Well, I think it is beautiful but I do wish the City would hire a branding agency to help them come up with a more unified design theme. Public projects like this would be great to build where the design fit with a larger, more iconic theme.

While I like this project a great deal from the pictures Pete posted, I very much like your idea, Sid. I think a more unified theme would be really great for the city.

Here is a link to their website with some other renderings of the club house:

LWPB Architecture (http://www.lwpb.com/#portfolio/on_the_boards)

Thanks for the link!

Here are the detailed renderings... Love the upstairs terrace that overlooks the course:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lincolnclub2.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lincolnclub3.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lincolnclub4.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lincolnclub5.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lincolnclub7.jpg

And speaking of a unified design theme, they are rebuilding the Earlywine clubhouse in the same style:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/earlywine1.jpg

It's interesting. I was at a birthday party for a good friend in mid-January and he introduced me to another one of this friends who is an architect. I asked what he had worked on that I might know of and he told me about the NW OKC Library (the one on 122nd and Macarthur with oil derricks coming out of it) and he said he worked on a new club house and showed me a picture of the first one you posted on his phone. I didn't think anything of it at the time because I figured it had already been announced and possibly under construction.

Well, I think it is beautiful but I do wish the City would hire a branding agency to help them come up with a more unified design theme. Public projects like this would be great to build where the design fit with a larger, more iconic theme.


While I like this project a great deal from the pictures Pete posted, I very much like your idea, Sid. I think a more unified theme would be really great for the city.

I'm guessing you guys aren't golfers, huh? lol


I hear what you are saying, but I can tell you that if the finished product holds up to the renderings, these clubhouses will be in the style of some very nice, VERY EXPENSIVE country clubs throughout the country. The ski lodge/chalet style is most definitely "en vogue" in these circles and it shows to me that they are being pretty forward thinking in the design.

I'm not a developer or architect, but I am a golfer... and it's just my humble opinion.

If built as rendered, this clubhouse will be nicer than all but maybe two of the private golf clubs' in the city (i.e., all but OKCGCC & Gaillardia).

The courses are another story. Yes, Lincoln West is a nice public course, probably the best of the OKC munis (Earlywine North is good too, but neither of those are as nice as OU/Jimmie Austin). But they'd have to invest a whole lot in upkeep to get it up to snuff to host tournaments above charity scrambles and high school tournaments. I'd like it if they did, but I have a hard time seeing that happening.

My bottom line -- these are awesome clubhouses, but if they're attached to munis that aren't unusually special, will they really draw the tournament $$ they project? Is there any basis to think they'll invest more in improving the courses?

I'm guessing you guys aren't golfers, huh? lol


I hear what you are saying, but I can tell you that if the finished product holds up to the renderings, these clubhouses will be in the style of some very nice, VERY EXPENSIVE country clubs throughout the country. The ski lodge/chalet style is most definitely "en vogue" in these circles and it shows to me that they are being pretty forward thinking in the design.

I'm not a developer or architect, but I am a golfer... and it's just my humble opinion.

i am a golfer as well i very much agree with your post ..

Glad to see Earlywine is also going to get a rebuild.

I use Earlywine fairly often due to proximity, the course is nice but the clubhouse is showing some age.

just fyi but these projects were both part of the 2007 GO bond issue

If built as rendered, this clubhouse will be nicer than all but maybe two of the private golf clubs' in the city (i.e., all but OKCGCC & Gaillardia).

The courses are another story. Yes, Lincoln West is a nice public course, probably the best of the OKC munis (Earlywine North is good too, but neither of those are as nice as OU/Jimmie Austin). But they'd have to invest a whole lot in upkeep to get it up to snuff to host tournaments above charity scrambles and high school tournaments. I'd like it if they did, but I have a hard time seeing that happening.

My bottom line -- these are awesome clubhouses, but if they're attached to munis that aren't unusually special, will they really draw the tournament $$ they project? Is there any basis to think they'll invest more in improving the courses?

My assumption is that charity events and scrambles is what they meant with that... From a bottomline standpoint, that's what you need to help your margins. If you have 250 people playing in a charity scramble, they are all buying food and merchandise... And, those are the items with the highest margins.

It's interesting that you don't mention Hefner. I personally think it's the best maintained muni in town... although I don't play the munies religiously, so maybe things have changed.


Nope. Not a golfer. My suggestion may be a bad one then if I need to be.

Like I said, I hear what you were saying and I'm certainly not telling you that you are flat wrong... lol. BUT, perspective is important in this case.

Hefner is indeed well maintained -- especially recently, as I heard they got an up-and-coming greenskeeper from Southern Hills(?) that is doing a bang-up job. But, in my opinion, Lincoln West and Earlywine North are better tracks overall. They may not be maintained quite as well, but they're just better courses.

You know, you're probably right about the charity scrambles. I guess I underestimated the amount of cash they can generate. But when I read that they were aiming to pay for the improvements with tournament revenue, I was thinking of more like high-level amateur or college events (no way either of those courses are even getting mini-tours). Still hard to think that they're going to increase revenue $500k+/yr, but I hope they do.

Hefner is indeed well maintained -- especially recently, as I heard they got an up-and-coming greenskeeper from Southern Hills(?) that is doing a bang-up job. But, in my opinion, Lincoln West and Earlywine North are better tracks overall. They may not be maintained quite as well, but they're just better courses.

You know, you're probably right about the charity scrambles. I guess I underestimated the amount of cash they can generate. But when I read that they were aiming to pay for the improvements with tournament revenue, I was thinking of more like high-level amateur or college events (no way either of those courses are even getting mini-tours). Still hard to think that they're going to increase revenue $500k+/yr, but I hope they do.

the capital expense . (at least most of it) doesn't have to be "paid for" 2.25 mil for each club house is 2007 GO bond money

Hefner is indeed well maintained -- especially recently, as I heard they got an up-and-coming greenskeeper from Southern Hills(?) that is doing a bang-up job. But, in my opinion, Lincoln West and Earlywine North are better tracks overall. They may not be maintained quite as well, but they're just better courses.

Ah, I gotcha... Yeah, I can't disagree with that. With the lack of true diversity in terrain here, I guess I don't see too much difference in the courses. And, having spent a lot of time on private clubs (cue the Thurston Howell voice), I know that I personally value maintenance over most other things... but, not everyone feels the same way, for sure.


You know, you're probably right about the charity scrambles. I guess I underestimated the amount of cash they can generate. But when I read that they were aiming to pay for the improvements with tournament revenue, I was thinking of more like high-level amateur or college events (no way either of those courses are even getting mini-tours). Still hard to think that they're going to increase revenue $500k+/yr, but I hope they do.

Well, with 36 holes they will have the ability to do just that. They can run 2 tournaments a day on one 18, and still have normal play on the other. And, keep in mind that tournament "prizes" are almost always proshop credits... and I can tell you for a fact that for every $50 of prize money credits, I've spent AT LEAST equal dollars, if not more, on the back end. If I win $100, then I can get that $300 driver for $200... done. A $50 prize means I can get 2 dozen ProV1's for the price of one.... etc... But, the biggest money maker during these tournaments is BEER. If I paid $75 a month ago to be in this tournament, (which typically includes range balls, cart, green fees, some free swag, and usually a sack lunch) then I walk onto the course ready to spend any money I have in my pocket on beer, snacks, golf balls... etc.

Just throwing out some conservative approximations here... two full tournaments would be 2 groups of 4 teeing off on each hole, shotgun style. That's 144 in the 8am tourney and 144 in the 1pm tourney... Even if each golfer only spent $30 that day, AND you only had tournaments on Sat/Sun for 36 weeks a year... that's 288(golfers/day) x $30 x 2 (sat & sun) x 36 = $622,080. Keep in mind, they already paid their green fees and other normal overhead expenses with their entry fee, so this is straight proshop, restaurant, bar revenue which have pretty high margins. So, even looking at it conservatively, it's easy to see why they crave the tournament action.

Well, I think it is beautiful but I do wish the City would hire a branding agency to help them come up with a more unified design theme. Public projects like this would be great to build where the design fit with a larger, more iconic theme.

I've read this a couple times and don't get what you mean. What am I missing? Iconic theme for the city golf courses? Iconic theme for the city in general that ties in to the golf courses?

Ah, I gotcha... Yeah, I can't disagree with that. With the lack of true diversity in terrain here, I guess I don't see too much difference in the courses. And, having spent a lot of time on private clubs (cue the Thurston Howell voice), I know that I personally value maintenance over most other things... but, not everyone feels the same way, for sure.



Well, with 36 holes they will have the ability to do just that. They can run 2 tournaments a day on one 18, and still have normal play on the other. And, keep in mind that tournament "prizes" are almost always proshop credits... and I can tell you for a fact that for every $50 of prize money credits, I've spent AT LEAST equal dollars, if not more, on the back end. If I win $100, then I can get that $300 driver for $200... done. A $50 prize means I can get 2 dozen ProV1's for the price of one.... etc... But, the biggest money maker during these tournaments is BEER. If I paid $75 a month ago to be in this tournament, (which typically includes range balls, cart, green fees, some free swag, and usually a sack lunch) then I walk onto the course ready to spend any money I have in my pocket on beer, snacks, golf balls... etc.

Just throwing out some conservative approximations here... two full tournaments would be 2 groups of 4 teeing off on each hole, shotgun style. That's 144 in the 8am tourney and 144 in the 1pm tourney... Even if each golfer only spent $30 that day, AND you only had tournaments on Sat/Sun for 36 weeks a year... that's 288(golfers/day) x $30 x 2 (sat & sun) x 36 = $622,080. Keep in mind, they already paid their green fees and other normal overhead expenses with their entry fee, so this is straight proshop, restaurant, bar revenue which have pretty high margins. So, even looking at it conservatively, it's easy to see why they crave the tournament action.

I agree with the point you're trying to make, but that is a little extreme to think that many tournaments will be held in a year. That's not a conservative approximation at all. That would leave zero ability for golfers who are not in the tournament to play. Hardly every do you call Lincoln for a tee time on a Saturday/Sunday and they say you can't get one because they are booked for a full 144 person tournament.

Thanks for explaining, Sid.

What you describe makes a lot of sense and it would be nice for OKC to carve out it's own style and identity through architecture, colors and public amenities.

The thought going through my mind when I first saw the drawings was "Boulder" or ski lodge. Whether it be used on bus shelters, public buildings, park and plaza spaces...I've wished OKC had a design vernacular of its own that could be used in cases like this. So that at some point in the future, public buildings/structures share a theme. Seattle does this with a couple colors and so does Vancouver. Vancouver even went so far as to define certain textures they wanted to use throughout the city.

Just thinking out loud. I have nothing bad to say about the project. It looks lovely. Just triggered a thought I've had several times.

Gotcha. Makes more sense now, thanks.

The thought going through my mind when I first saw the drawings was "Boulder" or ski lodge. Whether it be used on bus shelters, public buildings, park and plaza spaces...I've wished OKC had a design vernacular of its own that could be used in cases like this. So that at some point in the future, public buildings/structures share a theme. Seattle does this with a couple colors and so does Vancouver. Vancouver even went so far as to define certain textures they wanted to use throughout the city.

Just thinking out loud. I have nothing bad to say about the project. It looks lovely. Just triggered a thought I've had several times.

makes sense and in general i think that is a very good idea ...



for this project the first thing i thought (and i would bet other golfers would/did ) is nice modern golf club house .. irrespective of location

I agree with the point you're trying to make, but that is a little extreme to think that many tournaments will be held in a year. That's not a conservative approximation at all. That would leave zero ability for golfers who are not in the tournament to play. Hardly every do you call Lincoln for a tee time on a Saturday/Sunday and they say you can't get one because they are booked for a full 144 person tournament.

Actually, my scenario was ONLY for one 18... it would still leave the other side for regular play.

And, I agree that you never have to worry about getting on Lincoln Park for fear of a tournament... I think that's the point. lol. They NEED those tournaments to increase their revenue. They SHOULD be having those tournaments all the time... That's the WHOLE ADVANTAGE to have 36 holes to begin with. And, they think that this new facility will generate enough interest that they can do just that.

Actually, my scenario was ONLY for one 18... it would still leave the other side for regular play.

And, I agree that you never have to worry about getting on Lincoln Park for fear of a tournament... I think that's the point. lol. They NEED those tournaments to increase their revenue. They SHOULD be having those tournaments all the time... That's the WHOLE ADVANTAGE to have 36 holes to begin with. And, they think that this new facility will generate enough interest that they can do just that.

My main point was that yours was not a conservative estimate by any means. A course holding a 288 person tournament, twice a week, for 36 weeks is on the extreme side of the scale. Lincoln would do well to hold 20 tournaments a year.

My main point was that yours was not a conservative estimate by any means. A course holding a 288 person tournament, twice a week, for 36 weeks is on the extreme side of the scale. Lincoln would do well to hold 20 tournaments a year.

With their current facility, yes... but, with the new facility I think they will attempt to do exactly what I am suggesting. I would also guess they are going to work hard to increase their "banquet" type events too... weddings, reunions, private parties, etc...

With their current facility, yes... but, with the new facility I think they will attempt to do exactly what I am suggesting. I would also guess they are going to work hard to increase their "banquet" type events too... weddings, reunions, private parties, etc...

They can try to do that all they want. I put it about 99.9% that it won't happen the way you say. That is an enormous amount of golf tournaments. :)

They broke ground today at Lincoln Park GC:

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/399937_519580761433203_909438377_n.jpg

The thought going through my mind when I first saw the drawings was "Boulder" or ski lodge. Whether it be used on bus shelters, public buildings, park and plaza spaces...I've wished OKC had a design vernacular of its own that could be used in cases like this. So that at some point in the future, public buildings/structures share a theme. Seattle does this with a couple colors and so does Vancouver. Vancouver even went so far as to define certain textures they wanted to use throughout the city.

Just thinking out loud. I have nothing bad to say about the project. It looks lovely. Just triggered a thought I've had several times.

We listed this as a trend/current condition/issue in the enrichokc element of planokc. Read all of the issues here: http://www.planokc.org/docs/health/FINAL_ISSUES_2011-07-01.pdf

"8. Oklahoma City does not have a recognizable and defined brand that defines its culture."

and

"7. The design of City facilities varies greatly."

and

"9. The City does not have specific design goals or criteria for its facilities."

honestly, I wish Lincoln Park was an actual park instead of a golf course. ...

We need more disc golf courses in OKC

I am going to show my Dad the pictures today and see what he thinks, he is going to play golf at Lincoln Park today

honestly, I wish Lincoln Park was an actual park instead of a golf course. ...

Has it changed it recent years? We had many family picnics at that park when I was younger. It was always a lot of fun.

honestly, I wish Lincoln Park was an actual park instead of a golf course. ...

Lol, there is a park there (just as Earlywine, Hefner, and Trosper all have parks to go along with the courses). When was the last time you were actually there?

Lol, there is a park there (just as Earlywine, Hefner, and Trosper all have parks to go along with the courses). When was the last time you were actually there?

There are parts of the park adjacent to the 5th and 6th fairways of the west course. Funny story. When I was in 2nd grade in the spring of 1972, my school class took a field trip to the Lincoln Park Zoo. We were eating lunch next to the 5th or 6th fairway when one of my class mates hopped the fence and stole a guy's golf ball off the fairway. He climbed back over the fence and climbed a tree and hid in it. The guy came running down the fairway to try to catch him. Instead of hopping the fence and chasing the kid, he decided to drop another ball and keep playing. One of the funniest things I have ever seen.

Bigray in Ok

This was from about 10 days ago, so I suspect the old clubhouse is completely gone now:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1070101_551663851558227_2029289648_n.jpg

honestly, I wish Lincoln Park was an actual park instead of a golf course. ...

It may surprise you to know that many, many people actually like golf and golf courses.

It may surprise you to know that many, many people actually like golf and golf courses.

Why do you always respond to people with such a demeaning tone? Serious question. I've seen you do it all over this site. Is it because you think your opinion is better than everyone else's. Or am I completely off?

Why do you always respond to people with such a demeaning tone? Serious question. I've seen you do it all over this site. Is it because you think your opinion is better than everyone else's. Or am I completely off?

Are you new to the world of message boards? lol

Are you new to the world of message boards? lol

Yes. But it doesn't seem like everyone does it. Most people on here are respectful. Rover just seems very arrogant.

Oh, don't kid yourself... this board is FULL of aholes... (finger squarely pointed at myself first)

Just wait... all the urbanist punks will try to take away your cars, parking lots, open spaces... then you got some trying to turn our golf courses into parks... even some that whine and moan because we drained their lake so we could water our lawns.... and you didn't even get to experience Thunder in all his awesomeness. lol

Oh, don't kid yourself... this board is FULL of aholes... (finger squarely pointed at myself first)

Just wait... all the urbanist punks will try to take away your cars, parking lots, open spaces... then you got some trying to turn our golf courses into parks... even some that whine and moan because we drained their lake so we could water our lawns.... and you didn't even get to experience Thunder in all his awesomeness. lol

I guess I know exactly who not to respond to. Thanks.

I just don't understand why so many want to take away things that others really enjoy. Not trying to be arrogant...sorry if it comes across that way. It seems to me that many, many on here resent the things others choose and choose to enjoy. It seems like we are always having to defend against the desire to turn everything hipster. Instead of saying "I wish we had a park with the character that is like Lincoln Park Golf Course", it is "I wish it was a park INSTEAD of a golf course". I was merely pointing out that there were many that feel the opposite. Don't know why that is arrogant any more than assuming a higher use for it is as a park. I guess it is arrogant if you express a different opinion that may be more traditional.

I guess I know exactly who not to respond to. Thanks.

That sure was snarky... wow...



















:cool:

I just don't understand why so many want to take away things that others really enjoy. Not trying to be arrogant...sorry if it comes across that way. It seems to me that many, many on here resent the things others choose and choose to enjoy. It seems like we are always having to defend against the desire to turn everything hipster. Instead of saying "I wish we had a park with the character that is like Lincoln Park Golf Course", it is "I wish it was a park INSTEAD of a golf course". I was merely pointing out that there were many that feel the opposite. Don't know why that is arrogant any more than assuming a higher use for it is as a park. I guess it is arrogant if you express a different opinion that may be more traditional.

No, you're traditional opinion is fine. It's the way you word your responses.

As a frequent golfer there, I can proudly say the clubhouse has never looked better

That sure was snarky... wow...



















:cool:

Not trying to be snarky. Just saying that I don't really want to be harassed for my opinion. Whether it be New Urbanist or Suburban loving.

No, you're traditional opinion is fine. It's the way you word your responses.

I will try to be more sensitive.

I will try to be more sensitive.

Cool.

As a frequent golfer there, I can proudly say the clubhouse has never looked better
worthy cook, FTW!

Oh, don't kid yourself... this board is FULL of aholes... (finger squarely pointed at myself first)

Just wait... all the urbanist punks will try to take away your cars, parking lots, open spaces... then you got some trying to turn our golf courses into parks... even some that whine and moan because we drained their lake so we could water our lawns.... and you didn't even get to experience Thunder in all his awesomeness. lolWill someone please explain to me what that is all about???? I heard that name pop up quite a few times, and I'd really love to know who that was and what happened(yes, I know I'm nosy ;))

Not trying to be snarky. Just saying that I don't really want to be harassed for my opinion. Whether it be New Urbanist or Suburban loving.I hear you 100%! This site is one(if not the) best talk site(s) I've ever seen. Knowledge, self moderation, extremely tolerant and awesome mods, and the amount of work Pete and others put into this site and this city, it's amazing. The Dallas(DFWU) talk site is a freakin joke!

well, wasn't Lincoln Park a park a long time ago? And I'd argue that OKC is very short on good urban parks but is quite heavy on golf courses. I'd also argue that there aren't that many utilizing Lincoln Park in its current form.

Do you think that there are more people that use Lincoln Golf Course than 'would' use Lincoln Park?

Lincoln Park golf course is very heavily played...all 36 holes.

FYI, there is a large recreational facility / park / trails / health center under construction in NE OKC not far from Lincoln Park:

Northeast Regional Health and Wellness Campus - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Northeast+Regional+Health+and+W ellness+Campus&highlight=northeast)

Affordable good quality public golf courses are an important amenity for most cities. It is definitely a quality of life issue ALONG WITH adequate parks. It is a game that can be played and enjoyed by all ages, both sexes.

well, wasn't Lincoln Park a park a long time ago? And I'd argue that
OKC is very short on good urban parks but is quite heavy on golf
courses. I'd also argue that there aren't that many utilizing Lincoln
Park in its current form.
Lincoln Park is still right now. I remember when O.L. Ferguson was the
Golf Pro. He was a world class person. He developed many fine
golfers and later to be golf pros.

I have a friend from New York who's amazed that OKC has so
many parks beautiful parks, not golf courses, and that the city is
incredibly friendly. It's nothing she's ever heard on the NY news. She
thought everyone was supposed to be backwoods. I'm glad she found
out, first hand, that we aren't by any stretch of the imagination.

Does anyone know when this is scheduled to open? I gather that the original open date was next summer -- are they still on track?

played there last week. They are shooting for labor day

on a side note I am very underwhelmed with the progress so far

played there last week. They are shooting for labor day

on a side note I am very underwhelmed with the progress so far

I was there the same weekend. Not impressed with the progress either.