Ok, so it's been a few weeks since many businesses in El Reno and surrounding areas were busted for those illegal gaming machines. I would like to get people's thoughts on this issue.

For those who aren't aware authorities busted the VFW, Gilmore's, American Legion and I think the old Office bar by the tracks, south of the old Safeway on Sunset. These businesses were conducting illegal activities by operating illegal gaming machines on premises.

My thoughts are it's about time. These machines have been in these places for years and years. At least 8-9 years for many locations. A huge population of the town knew about these machines. How could the cops not know? Well they did know about these machines. The old county sheriff, Hawkins, was seen in the VFW playing these games himself. Many El Reno cops were also seen in these places going at it hard. Neither were in uniform, of course, as they weren't conducting an investigation. They were in there as private citizens playing away.

In my opinion the turning point was when Hawkins lost the 2008 election for the Sheriff's position. Hawkins was ok with them operating the machines and these places were not in any fear. But when he lost the businesses lost their "protection" so to speak. These businesses were too far into running these machines to just quit them. Why would they? Nothing had been done before and the new County Sheriff was an undersheriff under Hawkins so they probably thought he was ok with their continued operation as well.

Again it's just my opinion. But the fact remains that these illegal machines were in operation for years and years and years and it was well known in town.

I have a few more things but what are other people's thoughts on this matter?

my thoughts are that we should change our state gaming laws

Until the laws are changed the decision is simple, OBEY THE EXISTING LAW. For those flouitng the law you get what you deserved.

Live and let live I always say. So long as somebody's gaming machine isn't picking my pocket why should I give a fiddler's fart.

... what are other people's thoughts on this matter?

Which portion of your post? The part about gambling, illegal gambling, corrupt law enforcement officials, or something else?

Until the laws are changed the decision is simple, OBEY THE EXISTING LAW. For those flouitng the law you get what you deserved.So when they pass a law that makes it illegal for you to breathe, well, I just don't know. (sarcasm of course) ;)

who cares if somebody wants to pop their money into a machine? how is that hurting (or even affecting) anyone else? also, the only reason that the state says they're illegal is because they're not getting "their cut" of the money out into them. it's not like these folks were doing harm to the public by playing them!

who cares if somebody wants to pop their money into a machine? how is that hurting (or even affecting) anyone else? also, the only reason that the state says they're illegal is because they're not getting "their cut" of the money put into them. it's not like these folks were doing harm to the public by playing them!

who cares if somebody wants to pop their money into a machine? how is that hurting (or even affecting) anyone else? also, the only reason that the state says they're illegal is because they're not getting "their cut" of the money out into them. it's not like these folks were doing harm to the public by playing them!+1

who cares if somebody wants to pop their money into a machine? how is that hurting (or even affecting) anyone else? also, the only reason that the state says they're illegal is because they're not getting "their cut" of the money put into them. it's not like these folks were doing harm to the public by playing them!

Agreed....
But if the machines were a few miles to the west and north it would be a-ok. Cant have anything hurting the states intake of $$ from the compact deal of 2004.
Crooks..........

Depends on who that money is going to IMO. Would much rather a portion end up with our local Tribes than into the coffers of some Nevada gambling syndicate.

The folks at Lucky Star probably turned 'em in.

The folks at Lucky Star probably turned 'em in.

They were probably angry at being declared "Non-Tribal" . . .

Ok, so it's been a few weeks since many businesses in El Reno and surrounding areas were busted for those illegal gaming machines. I would like to get people's thoughts on this issue.

For those who aren't aware authorities busted the VFW, Gilmore's, American Legion and I think the old Office bar by the tracks, south of the old Safeway on Sunset. These businesses were conducting illegal activities by operating illegal gaming machines on premises.

My thoughts are it's about time. These machines have been in these places for years and years. At least 8-9 years for many locations. A huge population of the town knew about these machines. How could the cops not know? Well they did know about these machines. The old county sheriff, Hawkins, was seen in the VFW playing these games himself. Many El Reno cops were also seen in these places going at it hard. Neither were in uniform, of course, as they weren't conducting an investigation. They were in there as private citizens playing away.

In my opinion the turning point was when Hawkins lost the 2008 election for the Sheriff's position. Hawkins was ok with them operating the machines and these places were not in any fear. But when he lost the businesses lost their "protection" so to speak. These businesses were too far into running these machines to just quit them. Why would they? Nothing had been done before and the new County Sheriff was an undersheriff under Hawkins so they probably thought he was ok with their continued operation as well.

Again it's just my opinion. But the fact remains that these illegal machines were in operation for years and years and years and it was well known in town.

I have a few more things but what are other people's thoughts on this matter?


Back in the late 90's I bartended at the Tavern, a few years before it became Gilmore's. It is true that the machines there, as well as all the others around town were well known and were just a way of life. There's a certain well known guy who owned many, if not all the machines and had the powers that be around town in his pocket. Hawkins held the reins out there for a lot of years. Now that there is a new sheriff in town, and a new Undersheriff, who's a former state trooper, things are gradually getting cleaned up so to speak.

It was not so much the machines that were the problem it was the man that owned them all... There was a lot going on behind the scenes that people are not aware of. The corruption in that town is be on belief... I am glad I no longer live there!

So many people do not care? That is what kept them in business. If the Sheriff is willing to let the machines stay in business what else is he willing to let go? Also it is well-known the VFW is really just a bar. No one needs to be a veteran to get in there. All a person has to do is sign a roster sheet and they are in. So it's ok for the owners of this place to operate with liqour license under the name of the VFW?

I sooooo agree! It all should be done by the law out that way.
So many people do not care? That is what kept them in business. If the Sheriff is willing to let the machines stay in business what else is he willing to let go? Also it is well-known the VFW is really just a bar. No one needs to be a veteran to get in there. All a person has to do is sign a roster sheet and they are in. So it's ok for the owners of this place to operate with liqour license under the name of the VFW?

I sooooo agree! It all should be done by the law out that way.

So long as it wasn't hurting anyone what's the prob.? They should spend their time busting the meth joints and catching bank robbers and such. Who does it hurt if I drop $20.00 in a machine? Oh,maybe the state wasn't getting their fair share?

The machines could be set to keep 80%. At least at the Lucky Star the total payback to customers is 95% and that is probably the highest anywhere in the US. I would put that up against anybody. And what's wrong with the state getting their fair share?

So long as it wasn't hurting anyone what's the prob.? They should spend their time busting the meth joints and catching bank robbers and such. Who does it hurt if I drop $20.00 in a machine? Oh,maybe the state wasn't getting their fair share?

The prob was that it was hurting people! The man that owned the machines was corrupt and threatened and did a lot of harm to people that would not carry his machines. One of these people was my dad! So, for me I am glad they are gone... [

Illegal gaming machines in El Reno being investigated. (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-amusement-company-owner-is-target-of-gambling-inquiry/article/3927515)

This article backs up what many on this board have said. Corruption in the El Reno and Canadian County law enforcement offices. Anyone still think that playing at these places causes no more harm than playing at a legit casino?

Until the laws are changed the decision is simple, OBEY THE EXISTING LAW. For those flouitng the law you get what you deserved.

Thank God some of the most historically significant people in our country's history didn't feel the same as you.

Thank God some of the most historically significant people in our country's history didn't feel the same as you.

In terms of civil rights, yeah. Are you equating OK state gaming laws with Jim Crow laws?

In terms of civil rights, yeah. Are you equating OK state gaming laws with Jim Crow laws?

The author I was replying to mentioned nothing more than "Until the laws are changed the decision is simple, OBEY THE EXISTING LAW. For those flouitng the law you get what you deserved."

Try and distort it to whatever you choose, but I stand behind my original reply.

I find it odd that the state will gladly sell them tax stamps for the machines and then send another agency in to seize and shut them down.....

The author I was replying to mentioned nothing more than "Until the laws are changed the decision is simple, OBEY THE EXISTING LAW. For those flouitng the law you get what you deserved."

Try and distort it to whatever you choose, but I stand behind my original reply.

I don't see where I'm distorting a call to obey laws or, in your case, a call to decide for yourself which laws are lawful. In our society, we should obey laws and try to change those we don't think are right. I stand by my response (but then again, we disagree on the Edward Snowden: Hero or Criminal thread, too.

I don't see where I'm distorting a call to obey laws or, in your case, a call to decide for yourself which laws are lawful. In our society, we should obey laws and try to change those we don't think are right. I stand by my response (but then again, we disagree on the Edward Snowden: Hero or Criminal thread, too.

And our history CLEARLY shows many laws were only changed AFTER civil disobedience occurred and brave individuals disregarded those laws to bring attention to them.

@ Garin Odd .. Nope Just Good Business Sense

And our history CLEARLY shows many laws were only changed AFTER civil disobedience occurred and brave individuals disregarded those laws to bring attention to them.

I think there's quite a difference between the attitudes of Rev. Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks and the attitudes of the El Reno VFW running an illegal gaming operation.

I think there's quite a difference between the attitudes of Rev. Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks and the attitudes of the El Reno VFW running an illegal gaming operation.

Funny, I never mentioned either of those names.

While I'd certainly include those as the most readily recognized examples, there are plenty of examples of civil disobedience that resulted in greater awareness, and a rethinking of the laws on lesser known levels.

If people just 'go along' with all laws then none of them change.

While you have to be prepared to suffer the consequences - I applaud many examples of civil disobedience, even if I don't always agree with the motives.

An attitude of 'just blindly obey all laws regardless' is a concept I don't subscribe to.

... there are plenty of examples of civil disobedience that resulted in greater awareness, and a rethinking of the laws on lesser known levels..

I'm sure I could google up a couple, but none really come to mind right now. Test: without internet search, can you come up with any?