Major media publications are starting to warm up to OKC. The public at large though really isn't, especially on the coasts. Go to City-Data forums and they have all kinds of great things to say about the likes of Austin, Dallas, Houston, Minneapolis, and Denver. Oklahoma City though only gets mentioned when it is to bash it or make fun of it. Other flyover cities like Kansas City and Omaha fare a little better but are still quite disliked and misunderstood. Now City-Data forums are very coast-centric and very college-aged i.e. a lot of people have never been to the places they are parroting negative stereotypes about, but I think its an adequate indicator of how places are perceived. The coasts are biased against the Great Plains though and thus there is very little OKC can do, short of becoming the next Austin, that will radically change that perception. I look forward to the day, and its coming soon, that downtown OKC will have the energy, momentum, and vibe of cities like Louisville and Richmond.

Major media publications are starting to warm up to OKC. The public at large though really isn't, especially on the coasts. Go to City-Data forums and they have all kinds of great things to say about the likes of Austin, Dallas, Houston, Minneapolis, and Denver. Oklahoma City though only gets mentioned when it is to bash it or make fun of it. Other flyover cities like Kansas City and Omaha fare a little better but are still quite disliked and misunderstood. Now City-Data forums are very coast-centric and very college-aged i.e. a lot of people have never been to the places they are parroting negative stereotypes about, but I think its an adequate indicator of how places are perceived. The coasts are biased against the Great Plains though and thus there is very little OKC can do, short of becoming the next Austin, that will radically change that perception. I look forward to the day, and its coming soon, that downtown OKC will have the energy, momentum, and vibe of cities like Louisville and Richmond.

I can imagine that being true. Right now, I think Omaha and definitely Kansas City have big legs up on Oklahoma City. That's not just perception, but undeniable really. And before somebody says, "Omaha doesn't have an NBA team, it's not big league." That means a lot for visibility, especially among sports fans, but most people don't think twice about sports franchises. Example: No NBA/NFL/MLB team hasn't hurt Austin. It's new here, still a novelty in some respects, but most people just don't care.

I can imagine that being true. Right now, I think Omaha and definitely Kansas City have big legs up on Oklahoma City. That's not just perception, but undeniable really. And before somebody says, "Omaha doesn't have an NBA team, it's not big league." That means a lot for visibility, especially among sports fans, but most people don't think twice about sports franchises.

Kansas City definitely. They are simply a tier above OKC and simply offer much more. Kansas City is a good match with Charlotte and San Antonio. Omaha on the other hand may be slightly ahead (though its debatable), but we will definitely catch up once the currently proposed projects in downtown OKC are completed. Omaha also benefits from being a mostly white collar city with a strong liberal base, and that helps their perception. OKC has historically been a blue collar, working class city but in recent years has begun to attract more white collar jobs for educated professionals.

Kansas City definitely. They are simply a tier above OKC and simply offer much more. Kansas City is a good match with Charlotte and San Antonio. Omaha on the other hand may be slightly ahead (though its debatable), but we will definitely catch up once the currently proposed projects in downtown OKC are completed. Omaha also benefits from being a mostly white collar city with a strong secular progressive community, and that helps their perception. OKC has historically been a blue collar, working class city but in recent years has begun to attract more white collar jobs for educated professionals.

Yes, I agree K.C. metro is definitely a tier above. Omaha, I was thinking of the diversified economic base, and the downtown is so much more livelier. Sometimes, I look around downtown OKC and wonder - where is everybody? The lack of retail hurts us, but Omaha has many housing options, that aren't all just for high-income earners, in their urban center. Old Market seems much livelier than Bricktown, but then again, we've become more spread out with our entertainment districts. I may be wrong about Omaha being a step ahead, I just get a very good vibe from that city. Des Moines is another that's coming on strong.

Yes, I agree K.C. metro is definitely a tier above. Omaha, I was thinking of the diversified economic base, and the downtown is so much more livelier. Sometimes, I look around downtown OKC and wonder - where is everybody? The lack of retail hurts us, but Omaha has many housing options, that aren't all just for high-income earners, in their urban center. Old Market seems much livelier than Bricktown, but then again, we've become more spread out with our entertainment districts. I may be wrong about Omaha being a step ahead, I just get a very good vibe from that city. Des Moines is another that's coming on strong.

It's been discussed here before why there is the perception that Omaha's Old Market or Tulsa's districts are so much livelier than Bricktown. It's because of placemaking and walkability. Bricktown, unfortunately, suffers in that area. Human-scale districts are always going to seem much livelier and much more vibrant than districts designed around the automobile. Pound for pound however, Bricktown offers more than anything in Tulsa or in Omaha. One area downtown OKC really does fall short is live music with the exception of red dirt country. The up-and-coming districts i.e. Plaza, Midtown, seem to be focusing on doing right what Bricktown did wrong. They are just infants in 2014. In 2017, this will be a different discussion.

I can imagine that being true. Right now, I think Omaha and definitely Kansas City have big legs up on Oklahoma City. That's not just perception, but undeniable really. And before somebody says, "Omaha doesn't have an NBA team, it's not big league." That means a lot for visibility, especially among sports fans, but most people don't think twice about sports franchises. Example: No NBA/NFL/MLB team hasn't hurt Austin. It's new here, still a novelty in some respects, but most people just don't care.

I've got to be honest. I'm from Kansas City and nobody I know ever talks about or takes trips up to Omaha. It's not like Austin where it is a major destination for people in the region to take weekend trips. There are also not many KU grads (basically zero relative to other cities) who had offers or considered jobs in Omaha after graduation. Which is odd considering how much love other people claim it gets, and how close it is to KU relative to a lot of other cities people moved to. Like I said in another thread awhile back, I'm not claiming to know every graduate from KU. I'm basing that off of the employment reports that KU releases every year from surveying its graduates, along with the people I personally know. I'm not belittling Omaha, I'm just saying that in no way does it have "a big leg up" on OKC. That's just my opinion.

Second, and I'm glad you at least acknowledged it this time BChris, 90% of the people on City-Data who voice such strong opinions about all these different cities have never even been to them. They base all their opinions on each others uninformed opinions, and the general idea that any city with a lower population than another (especially if it isn't on the east or west coast) is garbage compared to the bigger one. And saying that they view Dallas/Houston favorably is a stretch. From the couple times I browsed those forums there weren't any cities, not on the coasts, who got any love besides Chicago, Denver, Austin, and sometimes Minneapolis. Dallas and Houston were immediately trashed if either were ever dare mentioned in the same sentence as a city in the NE or on the west coast.

Like I've said before, I don't care if someone else wants to base their entire view of other US cities on the opinions of uninformed posters on the internet. But it gets old seeing people try and regurgitate those same opinions as facts in other places (HERE!). Not saying there aren't any informed posters on that site, but from the tone and the grammar that a majority of those posters use it's pretty obvious how much credibility they have. That whole site is just a measuring stick contest for most of those posters.

KC is also by no means perfect. OKC is growing at a faster rate, both percentage-wise and sheer number wise, compared to KC. Which is odd considering the KC metro is about 50% larger than the OKC metro. KC also has a huge problem with the Johnson County burbs stealing jobs from KCMO proper. The "incentive-war" going on between the two was talked about for quite awhile not too long ago in this thread. Because of that a lot of the wealth/influence in the KC metro is accumulated on the KS side, which is just as if not more conservative than Oklahoma/OKC. Almost all the new jobs are out in suburban office-parks, especially a lot of the engineering and business ones my buddies have. They all have to either live out in Lenexa/Overland Park or they have to drive 30 minutes to work from downtown out to the suburbs. Don't get me wrong I love KC, but it isn't experiencing near the growth of other cities its size like Charlotte or San Antonio.

No one is talking about OKC.

"Denver, San Antonio, Charlotte, Nashville, Oklahoma City, Dallas, Phoenix, Seattle saw population growth more than 1.5% 2Xs national average" - Richard Florida (@Richard_Florida)

YES. This is an exciting list of cities we are being compared to by others.

I've got to be honest. I'm from Kansas City and nobody I know ever talks about or takes trips up to Omaha. It's not like Austin where it is a major destination for people in the region to take weekend trips. There are also not many KU grads (basically zero relative to other cities) who had offers or considered jobs in Omaha after graduation. Which is odd considering how much love other people claim it gets, and how close it is to KU relative to a lot of other cities people moved to. Like I said in another thread awhile back, I'm not claiming to know every graduate from KU. I'm basing that off of the employment reports that KU releases every year from surveying its graduates, along with the people I personally know. I'm not belittling Omaha, I'm just saying that in no way does it have "a big leg up" on OKC. That's just my opinion.

Much of the praise Omaha gets is a matter of perception in my opinion. It's a white collar city that never really had the negative stereotypes OKC has had to and is having to overcome. Des Moines is in a similar position. Despite that, it pretty much has regional draw and is in no way an Austin or even a Kansas City.

I may be repeating myself, but Omaha, like a lot of other cities, does have a leg up on OKC in terms of placemaking. OKC should learn from them and I think slowly but surely is doing so. Much of early Bricktown revitalization was done to the typical minimalist, auto centric standards that seems to plague so much development here. The thing is I don't think OKC knew how to do anything different fifteen years ago when many of the decisions were being made. It wouldn't take a lot to fix it though. Cut the streets down to two lanes, have angled parking, and develop the surface lots. Plant trees and erect more ornamental light posts. We also need more restaurants with patio dining. It's the little things that help create a sense of place and make an experience more enjoyable. Do that and Bricktown won't seem so far behind Old Market.

One advantage Bricktown has that Old Market will never have is the canal, which developers have mindboggingly ignored.

Much of the praise Omaha gets is a matter of perception in my opinion. It's a white collar city that never really had the negative stereotypes OKC has had to and is having to overcome. Des Moines is in a similar position. Despite that, it pretty much has regional draw and is in no way an Austin or even a Kansas City.

I may be repeating myself, but Omaha, like a lot of other cities, does have a leg up on OKC in terms of placemaking. OKC should learn from them and I think slowly but surely is doing so. Much of early Bricktown revitalization was done to the typical minimalist, auto centric standards that seems to plague so much development here. The thing is I don't think OKC knew how to do anything different fifteen years ago when many of the decisions were being made. It wouldn't take a lot to fix it though. Cut the streets down to two lanes, have angled parking, and develop the surface lots. Plant trees and erect more ornamental light posts. We also need more restaurants with patio dining. It's the little things that help create a sense of place and make an experience more enjoyable. Do that and Bricktown won't seem so far behind Old Market.

One advantage Bricktown has that Old Market will never have is the canal, which developers have mindboggingly ignored.

I think one major difference when it come to perception nation wide is that most people view Omaha as being a big small city where people view OKC as a small big city. If that makes sense. Like so much about Omaha is even though it is only 900K they have x, y and z. And for OKC they say this city of 1.3 million with the NBA doesn't have x, y and z. It is kind of silly, but I suppose it comes with the territory. Like how I think the Manning "Omaha, Omaha" thing went crazy because Omaha is "quaint little fly over America getting recognition." No one cares if he says "Chicago, Chicago."

And I understand the natural comparisons between Bricktown and the Old Market, both renovated warehouse districts. The big difference that you sort of alluded to in your comment is that Bricktown has 15 years of real revitalization and a lot of it was city involvement and investment, which isn't necessarily bad. Compare that to the Old Market which began it's renewal in 1964, 50 years time to mature and define itself is a big advantage over 15. Deep Deuce is the early maturing of the Bricktown area, the rest of it will figure it out in the coming years. I mean it took 35 years for us to finish renovating warehouses and get newly built apartments. You guys were doing it in less than 15.

If anyone is curious here is an article about Sam Mercer, the Godfather of the Old Market.
Sam Mercer | Omaha Magazine (http://omahamagazine.com/2013/04/sam-mercer/)


Continental bon vivant Samuel Mercer, who passed away in early February, was not a typical Nebraskan. Though he grew up to become the Old Market’s undisputed godfather, he started life as the son of prominent Omaha physician and landowner Nelson Mercer. Young Sam was born and raised in privileged circumstances in London, England, and educated at Oxford and Yale. After living in Washington, D.C., he based his law practice in Paris, where he mostly lived the rest of his life, holding dual citizenship.

In Paris, Mercer cultivated relationships with avant garde artists. A watercolorist himself, he made artist Eva Aeppli his second wife. On his handful of trips to Omaha each year, Mercer cut an indelible figure with his shoulder-length gray hair, his trans-Atlantic accent, and his waxing on far-ranging subjects. He spoke perfect French.

“He projected an aura of unpretentious aristocracy…I liked him immediately and enormously,” says designer Roger duRand, who with Percy Roche opened the Old Market’s first business, The Farthest Outpost.

And his vision of the Old Market.

“We worked to shape the Old Market neighborhood in the most authentic and benign ways possible, gently guiding new tenants away from the clichéd and vulgar, and to more thoughtful and honest approaches to development of the beautiful old structures,” says duRand. “Even though Sam lived and worked in Paris, his presence was in every decision of significance in nurturing the Market. He made frequent visits to Omaha in the early days and was instrumental in bringing the city fathers around to acceptance, then eventual approval, and finally enthusiasm for the preservation and rebirth of our neighborhood. His passing leaves a permanent and poignant void.”

Sam Mercer viewed the Market as an evolving social experiment and art project aligned with his own desires. Mark says the family has continued that philosophy by encouraging unique ventures that “fit our tastes and interests.” He and Vera say creating new things is their passion. They vow to retain the vibrant charm of this historic neighborhood that Mercer lovingly made happen.

I view Omaha as a city that burns slowly. We will never be a boomtown, we will grow by 10K a year and continue to renovate old streetcar suburbs and build 5 floor buildings to infill downtown and midtown with a new high rise or two every decade. A city that works hard, loves to have fun yet will be perpetually overlooked. Our climate, lack of a major body of water or mountain and just plain perception will keep us from being Austin or Portland. And really that is ok with me, I don't think a city has to be the next Dallas or Chicago to be successful.

OKC on the other had is a city that I see torching the wick toward a major boom. People are flocking there in droves, you are filled with companies in incredibly high growth sectors, there is a passion for the core, it doesn't get crazy cold or super snowy. I can tell you guys aren't perfectly happy with everything happening, but when a city goes through the kind of growth spurt that you are there is always going to be tension, a lot of cities when they were at where OKC is right now did not have the passion or support for doing things right the first time that you do. It is a major asset. That mindset will only grow in the coming years and there really is no predicting what could be on the way for the Capital of Oklahoma.

I completely respect OKC and enjoy following development happening there. Quite fun. I also will never miss an opportunity to tout my hometown :D.

Cheers from your cousin up north.

^^^
UrbanNebraska, I really like the "small big city" and "big small city" comparisons you used. I think that's an excellent way of describing each city's perception.

Ditto on the rest of your comments as well. :cool:

YES. This is an exciting list of cities we are being compared to by others.Wait a minute, you approve of a list of cities that had Dallas serious???? Ah gee wiz Spartan, I didn't think you'd lower yourself to classless, fake, culture lacking city such as Dallas???

Dallas is an enigma. It is and isn't that. The part that isn't - the part more reminiscent of Chicago than JR's Dallas - isn't what garners all the outside attention, praise, and attacks.

Much of the praise Omaha gets is a matter of perception in my opinion. It's a white collar city that never really had the negative stereotypes OKC has had to and is having to overcome. Des Moines is in a similar position. Despite that, it pretty much has regional draw and is in no way an Austin or even a Kansas City.

I may be repeating myself, but Omaha, like a lot of other cities, does have a leg up on OKC in terms of placemaking. OKC should learn from them and I think slowly but surely is doing so. Much of early Bricktown revitalization was done to the typical minimalist, auto centric standards that seems to plague so much development here. The thing is I don't think OKC knew how to do anything different fifteen years ago when many of the decisions were being made. It wouldn't take a lot to fix it though. Cut the streets down to two lanes, have angled parking, and develop the surface lots. Plant trees and erect more ornamental light posts. We also need more restaurants with patio dining. It's the little things that help create a sense of place and make an experience more enjoyable. Do that and Bricktown won't seem so far behind Old Market.

One advantage Bricktown has that Old Market will never have is the canal, which developers have mindboggingly ignored.

Have you been to Omaha?

Have you been to Omaha?

I'm channeling RadMod on this one:

Well, I've never been to [Omaha]
But I've been to Oklahoma
Oh, they tell me I was born there
But I really don't remember

In Oklahoma, not Arizona
What does it matter?
What does it matter?

With apologies to RadMod who requires no channeling.
With apologies to Three Dog Night who need more channeling.

Replace Arizona with Charlotte and you'd have a thread winner :p

So I started my job in Dallas today. I met a lot of people on my team and floor. I got some very interesting responses when I told folks I was from OKC.

Being in Texas I usually brace for some stupid and/or ignorant statement about OK. But one girl who was originally from Abilene said she loved OKC and her and her husband had made several trips. One lady said she thought downtown OKC was better than Downtown Dallas. Another guy said he thought it was a very clean city and didn't understand why it didn't get more positive press "like Austin." And at least one person gave me a "that's a great town, why are hell you here" type response.

As someone who grew up in DFW, among other places, and remembers the reaction I got a few years back when I stated I would be staying in OKC after college, this is proof (as if some people still need it) on how much this city's perception has changed.

Pat yourself on the back, OKC!!

That is a bit surprising to me. I hear people say good things about OKC once they get here. My sister lives in Dallas and when I tell her friends where I live they don't have much more than a dismissive reaction since they are from the big city and I don't know about such things. That makes me wonder if I am that way with people from Ada or Wichita.

So I started my job in Dallas today. I met a lot of people on my team and floor. I got some very interesting responses when I told folks I was from OKC.

Being in Texas I usually brace for some stupid and/or ignorant statement about OK. But one girl who was originally from Abilene said she loved OKC and her and her husband had made several trips. One lady said she thought downtown OKC was better than Downtown Dallas. Another guy said he thought it was a very clean city and didn't understand why it didn't get more positive press "like Austin." And at least one person gave me a "that's a great town, why are hell you here" type response.

As someone who grew up in DFW, among other places, and remembers the reaction I got a few years back when I stated I would be staying in OKC after college, this is proof (as if some people still need it) on how much this city's perception has changed.

Pat yourself on the back, OKC!!Every person I've met from Dallas loves OKC and I know several people in Dallas that are trying to make things happen to move back here. Dallas is a great city, but OKC is a much better place to live, imo.

That is a bit surprising to me. I hear people say good things about OKC once they get here. My sister lives in Dallas and when I tell her friends where I live they don't have much more than a dismissive reaction since they are from the big city and I don't know about such things. That makes me wonder if I am that way with people from Ada or Wichita.

Same here. When I told my friends in Charlotte I was moving to OKC I actually got some pretty negative, insulting reactions. I think this city's perception once you get east of the Mississippi is still more grounded in stereotype than reality. Good to see OKC getting some love in the Big D though. I think that says a lot.

For years I've worked consumer travel and leisure shows in DFW along with folks from the state dept of tourism, OKC CVB and Frontier Country Marketing Association. When I first started doing so in the early aughts, I constantly got really crappy comments along the lines of "why the hell would I visit Oklahoma?", especially in Dallas (Fort Worth folks were friendlier as a rule).

Over the past 5 or so that has softened tremendously. People in DFW now usually see OKC as a great weekend getaway destination, especially for families. I think that they also now tend to have some understanding that OKC is experiencing a pretty dramatic reinvention.

It helps of course that so many people in Texas have family/friends in/from Oklahoma, but I can tell you a very large percentage of visitors to OKC on a daily basis are from Texas and the DFW metroplex. If you doubt this, pay attention to the license plates puttering around downtown and Bricktown every day.

I know the recent census data was being talked about in another thread, but it isn't getting much love. I saw this article this morning and it included more of the raw data. One of the most interesting things I saw was the table for net domestic migration. OKC did very well, even compared to cities much larger. OKC had a net gain from 2010-2013 of 30K domestic migrants, the same number as Portland. Even DC, SF and Atlanta, three larger cities who are still experiencing a high rate of growth, came in at 33K, 37K and 44K respectively. On a percentage basis, OKC had the 7th highest rate of domestic migration.

Metro Area Population Data (http://www.newgeography.com/content/004240-special-report-2013-metropolitan-area-population-estimates)

Sorting the table found on that page:

OKC was #9 in growth over the last year and #10 between 2010-13.

Impressive. We can't count on anything, but OKC could really be just in the beginning stages of this. Charlotte for instance is still booming but its mostly booming on momentum. The economic fundamentals there don't support the kind of growth they are getting. It will be interesting to see what kind of impact the GE center has here once it gets built and in operation.

Impressive. We can't count on anything, but OKC could really be just in the beginning stages of this. Charlotte for instance is still booming but its mostly booming on momentum. The economic fundamentals there don't support the kind of growth they are getting. It will be interesting to see what kind of impact the GE center has here once it gets built and in operation.
Some of that is happening in Austin, there are many who have moved there because they want to be there but have had a hard time finding jobs, especially in the tech sector. So many companies in the hardware sector have downsized or shipped jobs overseas and software jobs haven't completely replaced them and a lot of the old semiconductor guys have had hard times trying to find something. Just a sector in constant transition.

I know when I moved there in 2003 I interviewed with one architecture firm, they had around 100 resumes for one position and interviewed 5 of us. The Austin architecture market has two to three the firms of San Antonio but most of them are very small firms with many being just the principals of the firm as the employees. Even with all the positive news the actual finding a job can be trying.

I can definitely understand that about Austin. I was talking to a guy this evening about that very thing. He said Dallas is booming right now and is great for job seekers but Austin is very saturated. He recently moved here from Dallas and is itching to move back.

My girlfriend's brother was in town from New York last week. He grew up in Dallas and has spent stints of several years in Miami, Boston, Charlotte, most recently New York, and has traveled all over the US/world. While he was here, he seemed to be enjoying himself and liked OKC, but didn't say too much about it other than making a few positive comments. A few days after he left I heard from their mother that when he spoke to her about his time here, he "went on and on" about how cool OKC was, how many cool things are going on here, how much it reminded him of Charlotte, and how excited he was to make another trip here.

For someone that's lived in/traveled to so many other, in most cases, much larger cities, I took that as a pretty big complement. Especially for someone who doesn't just throw complements out all the time.

According to Steve's chat the development that will make KC and Dallas jealous is shaky. Doesn't sound good.

For someone that's lived in/traveled to so many other, in most cases, much larger cities, I took that as a pretty big complement. Especially for someone who doesn't just throw complements out all the time.

If you have the right people showing you around, it's easy for OKC to impress the heck out of a visitor.

I've mentioned this before but I organized my class reunion for about 300 atop Devon Tower last summer and about half the attendees no longer lived in OKC. We booked a big block of rooms at the Colcord, closed the Flint patio down at 2AM afterwards (about 100 of us) and almost everyone said something to the effect, "Wow, OKC is *cool* now."

Now, if someone is left to cruise up and down Memorial or NW Expressway, they would be far less likely to come away with a positive impression.

But there enough interesting and cool stuff to do and see that at least now it's possible to show the City off in a great light. It wasn't that long ago there was virtually nowhere to take someone.

Now, if someone is left to cruise up and down Memorial or NW Expressway, they would be far less likely to come away with a positive impression.

Hold on there a second, buster! We got it good out here way out in the further reaches of the NW Expressway. :)

I grew up out there and didn't mean that in a disparaging way!

Just meant there was nothing unique about those areas that would facilitate a "OKC is cool" impression.

Pete...I know that. When I moved out this way there wasn't really a whole lot...except for the horses across the street and open fields. Amazing how much it has changed in a short 15 years.

According to Steve's chat the development that will make KC and Dallas jealous is shaky. Doesn't sound good.

That's unfortunate. It seems like every time something truly cool and/or big time is planned for OKC it ether dies or gets scaled way back. I'll be surprised if Chisolm Creek doesn't end up like University North Park before all is said and done. Given the anti-growth, anti-education, anti-culture stances of the state government I don't see that changing any time soon. Oklahoma is "OK".


If you have the right people showing you around, it's easy for OKC to impress the heck out of a visitor...

...But there enough interesting and cool stuff to do and see that at least now it's possible to show the City off in a great light. It wasn't that long ago there was virtually nowhere to take someone.

True. I impress friends from Charlotte whenever they visit because I am so selective as to what I show them or what streets I take them down. I usually focus on Bricktown or the 16th St Plaza for visitors. Midtown in 2014 is still very underwhelming if you are from a larger city. In a year or two, if it continues to fill in, it will be a lot more impressive. When I moved here in 2012 I couldn't believe that locals were touting it as an "in" neighborhood but today I really see where its going. The suburbs here are exceedingly bland, moreso than suburbs in peer cities. I would like to see OKC have a few suburban areas that are focal points of activity. Charlotte has Ballantyne and the Southpark areas.

I was very spoiled by Charlotte which has so many huge, cool things going on both downtown and in the suburbs. You have the energy, progressiveness, and glamour of a major city like Dallas with the advantages of a smaller city.

The suburbs here are exceedingly bland, moreso than suburbs in peer cities. I would like to see OKC have a few suburban areas that are focal points of activity.

I totally agree. My fix would include community parks with basketball courts, tennis courts, and ball fields. If I had the resources I would definitely build a Myrtle Beach style putt-putt golf course, outdoor go-cart track.

https://www.sumtercountysc.org/?q=department/recreation/article/palmetto-park

Top 5: Myrtle Beach's Best Putt-Putt Golf Courses - Myrtle Beach Golf News | Myrtle Beach Golf Holiday (http://myrtlebeachgolf.golfholiday.com/blog/myrtle-beach-golf-news/top-5-myrtle-beachs-best-putt-putt-golf-courses)

http://dallaskartingcomplex.com/

I totally agree. My fix would include community parks with basketball courts, tennis courts, and ball fields. If I had the resources I would definitely build a Myrtle Beach style putt-putt golf course, outdoor go-cart track.

https://www.sumtercountysc.org/?q=department/recreation/article/palmetto-park

Top 5: Myrtle Beach's Best Putt-Putt Golf Courses - Myrtle Beach Golf News | Myrtle Beach Golf Holiday (http://myrtlebeachgolf.golfholiday.com/blog/myrtle-beach-golf-news/top-5-myrtle-beachs-best-putt-putt-golf-courses)

Home (http://dallaskartingcomplex.com/)

I love Myrtle Beach. Charleston is better but Myrtle Beach is pretty cool also. OKC needs some attractions like the Ripley's Aquarium in Myrtle Beach and Medieval Times. If Tulsa can support a real aquarium, OKC should be able to.

That's unfortunate. It seems like every time something truly cool and/or big time is planned for OKC it ether dies or gets scaled way back. I'll be surprised if Chisolm Creek doesn't end up like University North Park before all is said and done. Given the anti-growth, anti-education, anti-culture stances of the state government I don't see that changing any time soon. Oklahoma is "OK".



True. I impress friends from Charlotte whenever they visit because I am so selective as to what I show them or what streets I take them down. I usually focus on Bricktown or the 16th St Plaza for visitors. Midtown in 2014 is still very underwhelming if you are from a larger city. In a year or two, if it continues to fill in, it will be a lot more impressive. When I moved here in 2012 I couldn't believe that locals were touting it as an "in" neighborhood but today I really see where its going. The suburbs here are exceedingly bland, moreso than suburbs in peer cities. I would like to see OKC have a few suburban areas that are focal points of activity. Charlotte has Ballantyne and the Southpark areas.

I was very spoiled by Charlotte which has so many huge, cool things going on both downtown and in the suburbs. You have the energy, progressiveness, and glamour of a major city like Dallas with the advantages of a smaller city.

You've GOT to be kidding! YOU like Charlotte?

You know, I'm not sure what this says about me, but now, whenever someone mentions Charlotte - anywhere I'm at - I think of YOU!

It will probably never happen but these are the things I would like to see and if OKC had these it would be a more attractive destination for people from other cities.

1. A real amusement park. Frontier City doesn't cut it. A lot of people I've met in OKC don't realize this and ask me why Frontier City isn't good enough, but when you've had a part like Carowinds in Charlotte or Six Flags Over Texas, Frontier City is pretty much a street carnival. A city the size of OKC at the intersection of three major cross-country highways should be able to support a park. Maybe move and upgrade White Water Bay also.
2. A real aquarium. Something like Atlanta's aquarium or Ripley's Aquarium in Myrtle Beach would be awesome.
3. A destination Vegas style hotel/casino resort. Something on the scale of the Winstar. Downtown wouldn't be the best place for it but somewhere in the metro it would be nice.

Another list that Charlotte tops.

The Most Dangerous U.S. Cities for Pedestrians - CityLab (http://www.citylab.com/commute/2014/05/the-most-dangerous-us-cities-for-pedestrians/371253/)

Here is the list

Ranking Metro Area Pedestrian Danger Index
1 Orlando-Kissimmee, Florida 244.28
2 Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, Florida 190.13
3 Jacksonville, Florida 182.71
4 Miami-Fort Lauderdale- Pompano Beach, Florida 145.33
5 Memphis, Tennessee (including parts of Mississippi and Arkansas) 131.26
6 Birmingham-Hoover, AL 125.60
7 Houston-Sugarland-Baytown, Texas 119.64
8 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, Georgia 119.35
9 Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, Arizona 118.64
10 Charlotte-Gastonia-Concord,
North Carolina-South Carolina 111.74

Some other interesting facts from that article


People of color and other minorities are far more at risk of dying from being hit by vehicles than white non-Hispanic people. For African Americans, the age-adjusted pedestrian fatality rate was 60 percent higher than for whites. For Hispanic Americans, it was 43 percent higher.
Adults over age 65 are only 12.6 percent of the population, but they account for 21 percent of the pedestrian fatalities across the country in the period from 2003 to 2010.
More than half (52.3 percent) of the pedestrian fatalities recorded happened on arterial roadways.
Sixty-eight percent of the fatalities occurred on roads that were paid for at least in part by federal money and that were designed along federal guidelines.
Pedestrians accounted for 15 percent of total roadway fatalities in 2012, compared to less than 12 percent in 2003. The percentage has climbed steadily over the study period.
After declining between 2005 and 2009, the raw number of pedestrian deaths started climbing again, and in 2012 was back to essentially the same number as it was in 2003, even though overall traffic fatality rates are down.
Some 61.3 percent of pedestrian fatalities took place on roads with a speed limit of 40 mph or higher; only 9 percent of fatalities that occurred on roads with speed limits of less than 30 mph.

Apparently its really dangerous to be a pedestrian in Florida.

Apparently its really dangerous to be a pedestrian in Florida.do I have a video for you.. i'm trying to find it

Found a cool video of downtown Charlotte if anyone wants to see. Very cool and shows the incredible energy there. OKC can get there if it plays it cards right. This is actually more vibrant than Dallas's downtown


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOq4h-ss2lI&list=PL077FAAA67E71C1E8

Aaaaaaand I'm starting to under bchris a little bit

Downtown Charlotte has an energy and a vibe that simply can't be matched in OKC. I miss it.

I think downtown OKC is 10-15 years from getting to the level shown in the video above but it can get there if it has vision and rights decisions are made.

Downtown Charlotte has an energy and a vibe that simply can't be matched in OKC. I miss it.

I think downtown OKC is 10-15 years from getting to the level shown in the video above but it can get there if it has vision and rights decisions are made.

Please move back there as soon as possible. You won't be missed here.

As to not detract from adaniel's work in the other thread with a long post, I thought it would be cool to compare OKC's growth with its regional peers that its often compared to so I am posting it in this thread instead. Omaha surprises me given the extent of development they've had recently.

Oklahoma City, OK
2013 Population: 1,319,677
Change from 2010: 66,690
Births-Deaths Surplus: 23,706
Int'l Migration: 6,759
Domestic Migration: 30,086
Total Migration: 36,845

Tulsa, OK
2013 Population: 961,561
Change from 2010: 24,083
Births-Deaths Surplus: 14,024
Int'l Migration: 3,226
Domestic Migration: 6,536
Total Migration: 9,762

Kansas City, MO-KS
2013 Population: 2,080,213
Change from 2010: 59,509
Births-Deaths Surplus: 38,819
Int'l Migration: 9,922
Domestic Migration: -3,767
Total Migration: 6,155

Little Rock-North Little Rock, AR
2013 Population: 724,385
Change from 2010: 32,482
Births-Deaths Surplus: 12,486
Int'l Migration: 3,255
Domestic Migration: 8,886
Total Migration: 12,141

Omaha, NE
2013 Population: 895,151
Change from 2010: 29,801
Births-Deaths Surplus: 22,462
Int'l Migration: 5,303
Domestic Migration: 2,540
Total Migration: 7,843

For kicks and giggles...

Austin-Round Rock (TX)
2013 Population: 1,883,051
Change from 2010: 166,762
Births-Deaths Surplus: 54,365
Int'l Migration: 16,932
Domestic Migration: 92,812
Total Migration: 109,744

Charlotte, NC
2013 Population: 1,865,903
Change from 2010: 107,865
Births-Deaths Surplus: 39,892
Int'l Migration: 14,844
Domestic Migration: 51,452
Total Migration: 66,296

I wouldn't consider OKC a "Peer" for Omaha in general, OKC is up a tier. I see a lot of similar attributes between the cities, but that is quickly changing. OKC's growth is a game changer, I really think OKC is about to go insane and I might need to find a new city to follow. Omaha's modest growth, that I have mentioned before, lead me to be super jealous of the boom cities.

I wouldn't consider OKC a "Peer" for Omaha in general, OKC is up a tier. I see a lot of similar attributes between the cities, but that is quickly changing. OKC's growth is a game changer, I really think OKC is about to go insane and I might need to find a new city to follow. Omaha's modest growth, that I have mentioned before, lead me to be super jealous of the boom cities.

Yeah OKC is up a tier but I included Omaha because it is a regional city depending on how you define regional. You all have had some awesome development up there recently which is why the modest growth surprised me. Plus, you all, like OKC, have had among the lowest unemployment in the nation since the recession.

I wouldn't consider OKC a "Peer" for Omaha in general, OKC is up a tier. I see a lot of similar attributes between the cities, but that is quickly changing. OKC's growth is a game changer, I really think OKC is about to go insane and I might need to find a new city to follow. Omaha's modest growth, that I have mentioned before, lead me to be super jealous of the boom cities.From what you post, it seems like Omaha is really kicking it in terms of growth and development. I'm not sure how it compares to others cities in terms of actual number of developments, but I'm sure it would rank high if kept in perspective and proper ratio.

I've heard nothing but good things about Omaha and I might even make a trip up there Christmas break.

Yeah OKC is up a tier but I included Omaha because it is a regional city depending on how you define regional. You all have had some awesome development up there recently which is why the modest growth surprised me. Plus, you all, like OKC, have had among the lowest unemployment in the nation since the recession.

Yeah, the growth issue kind of stumps me sometimes. We land on all those "Top 10 Lists" all the time. In reality the southern cities are the ones booming, add in cities with gas and oil and you have a recipe for massive growth. Omaha doesn't have the high growth industries that you need like energy and large tech. Insurance, rail road, food banking aren't growth industries for us, but they are incredibly stable for the market. Our energy companies like Tenaska(Into NG and Solar) and Green Plains(One of the larger ethanol producers) don't have the niche in the market to grow like a weed.

We really need our Boeing to move into the city, from the sounds of it they are becoming a major player for OKC.

From what you post, it seems like Omaha is really kicking it in terms of growth and development. I'm not sure how it compares to others cities in terms of actual number of developments, but I'm sure it would rank high if kept in perspective and proper ratio.

I've heard nothing but good things about Omaha and I might even make a trip up there Christmas break.

I really like what we are doing over a vast "urban"(not terribly urban) area that needs to be redeveloped. A big difference I noticed from my trips(they are brief) in OKC is that you guys generally have your "districts" basically run into each other and have a lot of overlap so they can feed off each other. Omaha's "districts" are very separate and don't have much interaction. Kind of fosters a competitive more than an interactive relationship.

You are about to witness a transition period ( 2015-2017) in which Oklahoma City will blossom as we approach 2020.

Yeah, the growth issue kind of stumps me sometimes. We land on all those "Top 10 Lists" all the time. In reality the southern cities are the ones booming, add in cities with gas and oil and you have a recipe for massive growth. Omaha doesn't have the high growth industries that you need like energy and large tech. Insurance, rail road, food banking aren't growth industries for us, but they are incredibly stable for the market. Our energy companies like Tenaska(Into NG and Solar) and Green Plains(One of the larger ethanol producers) don't have the niche in the market to grow like a weed.

We really need our Boeing to move into the city, from the sounds of it they are becoming a major player for OKC.

Omaha like you said is full of slow and/or steady growth industries. OKC is fueled by the boom and bust energy industry, and to an extent aerospace which is also somewhat boom and bust. Technology is another one that is in high growth currently but could bust though not very big in Omaha or OKC compared to Silicon Valley, Denver and Austin. Unfortunately I think we're going to see a downturn in energy and OKC will be majorly impacted while Omaha will be insulated. Houston's insane growth will slow.

OKC has to compete directly with Dallas, Houston and Austin and all three of those cities are still among the biggest boomtowns in the history of the U.S.

Houston in particular just amazes me. It's a huge city that seems to have been collapsing under it's own weight for the last 10-15 years, yet it continues to grow at an incredible rate.

But the DFW area is the one that really affects OKC the most. And still tons of room to keep on growing.

Yeah, the growth issue kind of stumps me sometimes. We land on all those "Top 10 Lists" all the time. In reality the southern cities are the ones booming, add in cities with gas and oil and you have a recipe for massive growth. Omaha doesn't have the high growth industries that you need like energy and large tech. Insurance, rail road, food banking aren't growth industries for us, but they are incredibly stable for the market. Our energy companies like Tenaska(Into NG and Solar) and Green Plains(One of the larger ethanol producers) don't have the niche in the market to grow like a weed.

We really need our Boeing to move into the city, from the sounds of it they are becoming a major player for OKC.

Omaha is a fine city. However, people in this country would rather be warm and unemployed than cold and working. "Cold cities" will probably not grow faster than their warmer counterparts anytime soon, even vastly superior places like Minneapolis or Omaha. If it means not wearing a coat or shoveling snow, people will show up in droves, usually with no employment prospects or money. Just look at the disaster that is the state of Florida.

Even in OKC, I think our climate probably scares off a lot of possible residents; it wouldn't surprise me to see our growth slow down somewhat when the next census estimate comes out due to the May 2013 storms. Of course, these same people will move into an earthquake or hurricane zone. But its been over 6 years since a Hurricane hit the southern US and well over a decade since one hit Florida; memories are short and people are stupid. So it is what it is.

^

Studies have shown that especially with younger people, they chose a place to live first, then worry about a job.

The local economy will always be a driving factor in growth, but it's not as important as it used to be.

OKC has to compete directly with Dallas, Houston and Austin and all three of those cities are still among the biggest boomtowns in the history of the U.S.

Houston in particular just amazes me. It's a huge city that seems to have been collapsing under it's own weight for the last 10-15 years, yet it continues to grow at an incredible rate.

But the DFW area is the one that really affects OKC the most. And still tons of room to keep on growing.

I really don't care for Houston, but it has become an economic powerhouse. The total metro economic output now slightly exceeds that of DFW despite having around 500K fewer people. Absent a total collapse in oil prices I don't see it slowing down.

From what I hear, Austin may be peaking. It's just gotten so congested and expensive now and wages there are lower than they are in Dallas or Houston. We just recently hired a CPA from Austin, and she expressed that a lot of her friends down there are making plans to leave.

With all that in mind, I think OKC holds its own very well. This is the largest MSA in the South Central US outside of Texas. And it is the 2nd largest MSA in the "Great Plains" states after Kansas City (of course, some people define Great Plains differently, I consider Denver the Moutain West even though it is technically on the plains). It's significant because this is a part of the country that historically had a hard time sustaining big cities.

Even in OKC, I think our climate probably scares off a lot of possible residents; it wouldn't surprise me to see our growth slow down somewhat when the next census estimate comes out due to the May 2013 storms. Of course, these same people will move into an earthquake or hurricane zone. But its been over 6 years since a Hurricane hit the southern US and well over a decade since one hit Florida; memories are short and people are stupid. So it is what it is.

To many, the benefits of a coastal lifestyle are worth the hurricane risk. To a born and bred Okie, its laughable to fear tornadoes but the frequency and suddenness of them makes them intimidating to a lot of people. Earthquakes and hurricanes do significantly more damage than tornadoes but as you said, it's been over six years since a major hurricane has hit the Gulf Coast. A highly damaging earthquake hasn't hit Southern California since the 1990s. A significant tornado happens in the OKC area roughly every 3-5 years.

When you look at the numbers though it averages out or might actually safer in tornado alley over the long term. The 1994 Northridge quake did $20 billion in damage with 57 casualties and 8700 injuries in the Los Angeles area. The Moore tornado did $2 billion in damage with 24 fatalities and 377 injuries. For comparison Hurricane Katrina did $108 billion in New Orleans with 1833 fatalities.


^

Studies have shown that especially with younger people, they chose a place to live first, then worry about a job.

The local economy will always be a driving factor in growth, but it's not as important as it used to be.

I have known a few whom that was the case and they were usually the type who went to places like Portland or Austin. For most people however, I believe the driving factors are economy first followed by family and friends.

http://cityobservatory.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/YNR-Report-Final.pdf

Not sure if this has been posted yet but its pretty interesting. OKC has seen a very substantial increase in 25-34 year olds choosing to live here compared to the year 2000.

Omaha like you said is full of slow and/or steady growth industries. OKC is fueled by the boom and bust energy industry, and to an extent aerospace which is also somewhat boom and bust. Technology is another one that is in high growth currently but could bust though not very big in Omaha or OKC compared to Silicon Valley, Denver and Austin. Unfortunately I think we're going to see a downturn in energy and OKC will be majorly impacted while Omaha will be insulated. Houston's insane growth will slow.

Do many of you recall that the OKC Hager plant (paid above minimum wage) relocated to Omaha because it couldn't attract the workers who wanted to do that repetitive work?


OKC has expanded its arterial pathway for growth. The Austin-Houston-Dallas corridor has become more high tech; more traits which mimic that with the early growth of the Silicon Valley. This corridor slowly expands its connection toward OKC & Tulsa.

I don't think OKC will repeat the oil bust of the 80s; we have a more diversified economy than we did when the oil surplus took its toll on the U. S. economy.