Bchris, we on this forum are hyper-aware. We know the details and watch the details form before anyone else does.

We don't have the same perspective on developments in other cities. They face similar changes that we do, I imagine. Ask anyone in OKC who doesn't keep track of stuff like the small group of us do, how lower Bricktown turned out relative to the original plans. They will respond that they think they did a good job and/or followed through.

True, but I've seen this to a greater extent in OKC than anywhere else I've been. Look at Hogan's Lower Bricktown. How many major developments here have actually been built as proposed?

I think we lose perspective sometimes by being so close. I've been involved in value engineering projects all over the world and for many years. Far from worse here than other places. Just sometimes seems so,

Bchris, we on this forum are hyper-aware. We know the details and watch the details form before anyone else does.

We don't have the same perspective on developments in other cities. They face similar changes that we do, I imagine. Ask anyone in OKC who doesn't keep track of stuff like the small group of us do, how lower Bricktown turned out relative to the original plans. They will respond that they think they did a good job and/or followed through.

I completely agree with this. Most people, even if they try and stay involved with their city, don't see EVERY conceptual design from the get go and get excited about things 2 years before they're built. Most people hear about it as dirt starts moving and don't know what it will look like until it's done or there is an article in the paper.

I try and keep up with new developments in KC but there is nowhere that I can find that has everything conveniently located like OKCTalk does. More often than not I just look at the KCStar every now and then, and even there they barely ever talk about new developments (assuming there are any).

I try and keep up with new developments in KC but there is nowhere that I can find that has everything conveniently located like OKCTalk does.

Maybe you need to be Pete's man on the ground for "kctalk.com"

Maybe you need to be Pete's man on the ground for "kctalk.com"

I'm no longer in KC, but I would definitely love to have a forum like this for KC that I could follow!

True, but I've seen this to a greater extent in OKC than anywhere else I've been. Look at Hogan's Lower Bricktown. How many major developments here have actually been built as proposed?

At least half. It's not that bad, especially when you consider that we have virtually powerless ordinances and commissions and everyone is doing the best they can. The real boogeyman is the weak ordinances.

At least half. It's not that bad, especially when you consider that we have virtually powerless ordinances and commissions and everyone is doing the best they can. The real boogeyman is the weak ordinances.

Personally, I think an ordinance should be passed that holds developers to the quality of the original proposal at least on prime real-estate such as the Canal, the new Boulevard, Central Park, etc to prevent stuff like this from happening in the future. If the developer decides they want to scale back, a second vote should have to take place to determine whether the scaled-down version of the original proposal is acceptable.

We all know there will be some Hogans trying to develop Boulevard-front property and they will present an amazing proposal, but actually deliver something more appropriate for NW 178th and Penn for a fraction of the cost. Why? Because this is Oklahoma City and they know they can get away with it. Lets change that.

Personally, I think an ordinance should be passed that holds developers to the quality of the original proposal at least on prime real-estate such as the Canal, the new Boulevard, Central Park, etc to prevent stuff like this from happening in the future. If the developer decides they want to scale back, a second vote should have to take place to determine whether the scaled-down version of the original proposal is acceptable.

We all know there will be some Hogans trying to develop Boulevard-front property and they will present an amazing proposal, but actually deliver something more appropriate for NW 178th and Penn for a fraction of the cost. Why? Because this is Oklahoma City and they know they can get away with it. Lets change that.

The question is how do you legally codify that. We need higher standards to come out of PLAN OKC.

Steve's update.

Avana Arts District makeover planned | News OK (http://newsok.com/avana-arts-district-makeover-planned/article/3944332)


Clay Wolford, Senior Director of Investments for Greystar, said the owners hope to start improvements by late spring with completion by winter.

I think the name of the thread should probably be changed now. I wonder why they didn't make that name change more official? Or maybe they did and I missed it.

I'm no longer in KC, but I would definitely love to have a forum like this for KC that I could follow!

Pete's not in OKC…this site seems to be doing just fine ;-)

All you need is some connections.

I've identified key mid-sized cities that need something like OKCTalk because I'd like to take what I've learned here and help bring it to other cities. And to create a network of sites.

So much could be gained not only in those markets, but by sharing between sites.

Skyscraper City and the like are okay but don't go very deep.

I've identified key mid-sized cities that need something like OKCTalk because I'd like to take what I've learned here and help bring it to other cities. And to create a network of sites.

So much could be gained not only in those markets, but by sharing between sites.

Skyscraper City and the like are okay but don't go very deep.

I agree. I think Skyscraper City is almost too big for it's own good.

The main advantage of a site like this is that it really helps to engage people in the community.

Not only keeps people informed but interested and motivated to get/stay involved.


Anyway, KC is one that is high on my list. The really big cities are pretty well served in a number of ways.

I completely agree with this. Most people, even if they try and stay involved with their city, don't see EVERY conceptual design from the get go and get excited about things 2 years before they're built. Most people hear about it as dirt starts moving and don't know what it will look like until it's done or there is an article in the paper.

I try and keep up with new developments in KC but there is nowhere that I can find that has everything conveniently located like OKCTalk does. More often than not I just look at the KCStar every now and then, and even there they barely ever talk about new developments (assuming there are any).

KCRag.com

Has anyone notice progress on this proposed renovation?

https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1.0-9/1902828_606479072764566_2113308864_n.jpg

No progress that I've seen.

Nope. I was by there this morning.

Ditto

I'm checking into this.

These kinds of new ownership rehabs typically happen only if occupancy or market cap could be higher.

Heard back from them about the exterior renovations:


The renovations officially kick off in a few weeks and will start with our entrance and work around!

They have temporarily moved their leasing office into the Steak and Catfish space in anticipation of a rework of the space where their offices and club room was. I have no doubt that the renovations are imminent.

Darn, no more awesome green awnings!

Darn, no more awesome green awnings!

With HUGE lettering!

Those had to be the tackiest things downtown; at least this side of Rick Dowell's parking garage.

Avana has formally submitted it's renovation plans and should be starting soon.

This is going to be a massive improvement. Note the metal awnings, the use of metal in the gabled ends and most importantly, the removable of those hideous awnings along Walker.

This whole area is yet another hotbed, with the Civic Center Lofts, 700 West and Sycamore Square New Build:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/avana1.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/avana2.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/avana3.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/avana4.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/avana5.jpg

So there's hope for the other boring/ugly downtown apartment buildings. Nice to know.

Although, that reminds me a bit of the Maywood Apartments with a pitched roof. Improvements are a relative thing.

It's hard to tell in the renderings, but they are actually squaring up the arches in the area around the lobby.

This is going to be very comprehensive and it will soon look very different -- thankfully.

By the way, work has begun on this project, inside one of the recessed areas along Robert S. Kerr.

Right now, this is the ugliest residential building in downtown -- if anywhere. Hopefully the improvements are dramatic in nature.

Right now, this is the ugliest residential building in downtown -- if anywhere. Hopefully the improvements are dramatic in nature.

I'm hardly defending the building but, if you think that's true, you keep your eyes closed when driving around OKC.:)

I drove by and saw they had already started doing some work on the renovation. I'll try to get some pics this weekend.

True, Legacy was still a step up for us.

They're really getting after it. I was thinking it was mostly cosmetic and would be paint and materials applied over the existing EIFS, but they are actually ripping that off for the most part, as far as I can tell. It's a pretty major undertaking.

There is a good chance the existing EIFS failed and causing waster damage behind the wall that has to be repaired. It is a common failure mode for barrier-style EIFS. It is possible this facelift has as much to do with envelope failure as it does with cosmetics.

Can the city ban the use of EIFS? Does someone at City Hall have stock in the manufacturer? Why are developers still using this?

Can the city ban the use of EIFS? Does someone at City Hall have stock in the manufacturer? Why are developers still using this?

Why? Because it is really inexpensive.

Can the city ban the use of EIFS? Does someone at City Hall have stock in the manufacturer? Why are developers still using this?

There are already limits on the percentage that can be used in the Downtown Design Review district.

Photo from Hemingstein; looks like they are taking the EIFS completely off (that's plywood):


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/avana083014.jpg

And that upper portion of plywood does not look to be in the greatest of shape.

This could be a major improvement.

Why? Because it is really inexpensive.

To put on, but not to maintain.

Maybe Level will wise up, too?

You know, if all the buildings downtown that used EIFS in their construction, renovated their exteriors and replaced it with brick over the next 10 years or so, things would look a lot better.

Ban on certain types of EIFS in state of Oregon. Moisture problems in Oklahoma are a concern due to extremely heavy periods of rain coupled with high winds.

http://www.cbs.state.or.us/bcd/whatsnew/barrier_notice.pdf

https://twitter.com/dtOKCbuilds/status/511909022648524800

9147

https://twitter.com/dtOKCbuilds/status/511909022648524800

9147

I can't tell from that picture: are they pulling off the old facade or just going right over it?

They're pulling it off.

In the back, the area around 4th Street and along Dewey, they are just repainting the exterior, it's going to be more of a tan color, with some red accents (replacing the green).
My building/section hasn't started yet, not sure which direction they plan on going in. I really don't face anything, so I may be last on the list in this case.

You know, if all the buildings downtown that used EIFS in their construction, renovated their exteriors and replaced it with brick over the next 10 years or so, things would look a lot better.

Yeah, but the same would likely true even if they swapped out the EFIS for vinyl siding

There was clearly some water damage in some areas, and in those sections they are stripping the EIFS completely off.

But even where they are not, they are making pretty big changes not just with paint, but with metal awnings, squaring off a lot of the openings, etc.

This place should look completely different when finished.

New signage to go with the massive exterior renovations.

Hopefully, this will look like a completely different development:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/avana121014a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/avana121014b.jpg

They are pretty far into the renovations. I should snap a pic. I pass there daily on my commute. Huge improvement.

It will definitely look "different." The renderings don't send a chill up my spine.

In person, it's a big improvement. There's still a lot of EIFS, but it's better than it was before.

It's really the best we could hope for given the starting point.

Credit to the new owners for trying to correct a horribly bland design.

Credit to the new owners, but I don't understand why it took them so long to get to design review and why they started before doing that.

I think a huge improvement would have been to try and remove the pitched roof and flatten that out. Don't know how feasible that would have been, but that's the one element, to me, that makes this thing an eyesore.

They did go to design review before starting work.

They just made some changes and thus had to submit those as well.

From https://twitter.com/Cassi_Sue: This certainly is going to look very different, which can only be good.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5Pmp6wIYAE9-ez.jpg:large

Those crosswalks, though... :doh: