Interesting video that I've seen around. Interesting to me is the difference between perception and reality.

Wealth Inequality in America - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QPKKQnijnsM)

That was amazing. I'd seen something like it before, but this one spells it out even better. Still, I have to admit that it makes my head hurt and gives me a vague sense of nausea. Who is allowing the top executives of various corportations to be so overpaid? The shareholders? The boards of directors? Who has been most instrumental in letting this situation develop? And what can reverse the trend if it is possible to reverse it?

Definitely an awesome video. Saw it a few days ago. Pretty powerful message if you aren't going in with a closed mind and apparent bias.

I just found out that four of the top ten richest people in America have the name "Walton" attached. As in Sam Walton, as in Walmart. So, I suppose that this situation is essentially OUR fault . . . =) I know, I know, the Walmart Empire is only a tiny shard of the !% iceberg but I'd still like to know who let the deck get stacked--or who weighted the wheel of fortune--to allow for this sort of monopolization of wealth . . .

btw: I really do have an open mind on all this. I'm not a materialist (nor a mandatory socialist). It simply seems that a situation such as the one described in the video cannot possibly continue to evolve indefinately. and when "the tipping point occurs" . . . fortunately, it's all imaginary money because if a pile of cash that big fell over someone is liable to get hurt.

Saw this yesterday, I hope it gets about 350million views.

This is probably part of the reason Romney didnt win. Imagine how much worse it could get if he had been elected. And this makes me laugh at those that thought it was such a bad idea to raise the top tax rate by a measly 3%. No middle class equals very little to no economic expansion. The rich can only buy so much, you need a big segment of the population to be able to go out to eat, buy Nikes, and take vacations too.

Didn't even Henry Ford realize that he had to pay his workers at least enough to be able to buy one of the cars they were producing?
And where would that money come from? A little less for him, I suppose.

I just found out that four of the top ten richest people in America have the name "Walton" attached. As in Sam Walton, as in Walmart. So, I suppose that this situation is essentially OUR fault . . . =) I know, I know, the Walmart Empire is only a tiny shard of the !% iceberg but I'd still like to know who let the deck get stacked--or who weighted the wheel of fortune--to allow for this sort of monoplization of wealth . . .

btw: I really do have an open mind on all this. I'm not a materialist (nor a mandatory socialist). It simply seems that a situation such as the one described in the video cannot possibly continue to evolve indefinately. and when "the tipping point occurs" . . . fortunately, it's all imaginary money because if a pile of cash that big fell over someone is liable to get hurt.
Why is there so huge difference between people who come up with business ideas that work out to mean billion$, while so many people find it a struggle to keep solvent working from paycheck to paycheck. Maybe too many people have lazy minds in this capitalist society we live in. Who hasn't seen a TV info commercial of a clever gadget and thought, "Why didn't I think of that?".

Good point. Yet you seem to be confusing the inventor of something with the money managers who buy them out. I doubt that there are very many Pet Rock/Pocket Fisherman peeps in that 1% referred to in the video . . . it's analogous to Tesla vs. Edison (and Westinghouse).

Didn't even Henry Ford realize that he had to pay his workers at least enough to be able to buy one of the cars they were producing?
And where would that money come from? A little less for him, I suppose.

Not many Henry Fords left today...if any.

Heck . . . even J.P. Morgan, Andrew Carnegie, John D. Rockefeller and some others realized they couldn't take it with them and tried to spread around a lot of what they had accumulated while they still had the opportunity to do so. Without being directly forced to. Sort of a "conscience" think I suppose. Implying the possession of a soul. =)

Of course--being as smart and industrious as they were--they may have been trying selfishly to avert a Domestic Bolshevik Revolution that would have made the French Revolution look like a picnic in the park by Monet or Manet or whomever.

ps: rumor has it that Henry Ford was a big fan of Hitler . . . for awhile/to a point.

I thought I remembered something similar late last year about China. The article was China's Gini Index at 0.61, University Report Says - (http://english.caixin.com/2012-12-10/100470648.html)
but referenced China's Gini Index at 0.61, University Report Says - (http://english.caixin.com/2012-12-10/100470648.html)

That was amazing. I'd seen something like it before, but this one spells it out even better. Still, I have to admit that it makes my head hurt and gives me a vague sense of nausea. Who is allowing the top executives of various corportations to be so overpaid? The shareholders? The boards of directors? Who has been most instrumental in letting this situation develop? And what can reverse the trend if it is possible to reverse it?

they are not overpaid general rule (clearly some are) .. ceo's and presidents have an elite skill set and are scarce thus they are highly paid ...

also the more "responsibility" they add the more the pay goes up ...

That was amazing. I'd seen something like it before, but this one spells it out even better. Still, I have to admit that it makes my head hurt and gives me a vague sense of nausea. Who is allowing the top executives of various corportations to be so overpaid? The shareholders? The boards of directors? Who has been most instrumental in letting this situation develop? And what can reverse the trend if it is possible to reverse it?

Why should it be reversed? How does it affect you in any way if someone is overpaid? And do folks think that people pull Scrooge McDucks and just swim in their money bins full of cash? Most wealth is either spent, invested, or put into banks (where it is spent or invested). There are always exceptions, of course.

If the Wal-Mart CEO worked for free, and put all his salary into employee wages, the average Wal-Mart employee would make just under 1 cent an hour more.

In truth, the only ones helped when CEOs make less, and the only ones who'd stand to make more money by paying CEOs less, are the money managers and investors who are so "evil", since the companies would be able to pay bigger dividends.

they are not overpaid general rule (clearly some are) .. ceo's and presidents have an elite skill set and are scarce thus they are highly paid ...

This is certainly what the CEOs and board members of the world all say but I dont buy it. I dont buy that there are so few good CEOs out there that they should be paid 380x what the average worker makes. I just dont buy. If this is the case why does it seem so many CEOs are hired and fired so frequently? If they were so scarce I would think more CEOs would be keeping their job longer.

Good point. Yet you seem to be confusing the inventor of something with the money managers who buy them out. I doubt that there are very many Pet Rock/Pocket Fisherman peeps in that 1% referred to in the video . . . it's analogous to Tesla vs. Edison (and Westinghouse).

One exception to the rule. Mark Zuckerberg did not sell out his idea for Facebook.

Why should it be reversed? How does it affect you in any way if someone is overpaid? And do folks think that people pull Scrooge McDucks and just swim in their money bins full of cash? Most wealth is either spent, invested, or put into banks (where it is spent or invested). There are always exceptions, of course.

If the Wal-Mart CEO worked for free, and put all his salary into employee wages, the average Wal-Mart employee would make just under 1 cent an hour more.

In truth, the only ones helped when CEOs make less, and the only ones who'd stand to make more money by paying CEOs less, are the money managers and investors who are so "evil", since the companies would be able to pay bigger dividends.

http://demotivators.despair.com/demotivational/achievementdemotivator.jpg
(ayn rand is buried in that little one to the lower left)

Think of the sense of accomplishment all those Egyptian slaves had once they were done... :P

=) I'll bet the Pharoah made MORE than 350 times than they did.
(so i guess his "pyramid scheme" actually worked!)

Think of the sense of accomplishment all those Egyptian slaves had once they were done... :PI think I recall reading that evidence indicates the builders were largely not slaves. I kind of prefer the ancient astronaut theory myself but I am a romantic at heart.

I bet those aliens weren't paid enough though.

IlluminatiBilderburgers . . .
but seriously . . . couldn't/shouldn't/wouldn't ANY "reasonable" person see something "wrong" with the "metrics" in the OP's vid?
(and, by extension, the "reality" it purports to quantify? that is, the fact that Human Greed has reached an all-time high?)

excuse me: IlluminatiBuilderBetterBurgers.
(bunty!: wanna back me on this concept? Maybe you could get Facebook Mark Z to kick a few bucks this way . . .?)

I bet those aliens weren't paid enough though.I am certain that's true but given their not so legal status and absence of credentials they probably had to make do.

You'd have to identify a harm, to describe it as "wrong". Otherwise, it's just based on a feeling. What's the harm when someone makes a lot, or is rich. And are there benefits of super-rich to society?

If harm is done in attaining the wealth, then that should be addressed, and often is. The wealth and high pay in and of itself isn't inherently wrong, IMO.

I am certain that's true but given their not so legal status and absence of credentials they probably had to make do.

At least they didn't have to deal with all of those pesky OSHA regulations serving only to drive up the cost of the project.
They had much pesky-er regulations . . . plus foremenforcers who couldn't speak English, Swahili, Spanish, Irish, Chinese or Babylonian.

(Yet . . . The scene, in the vid, at the top of the thread, just will not stand. It will not stand. Man.~Jeff "The Dude" Lebowski)

The problem I see to what is happening and will only get worse is corporations are merging and becoming a monopoly. Big companies buying out small companies and either absorbing their patents or just to kill the competition. The small business owners are being weeded out and can't compete. It's all big business and it's going to keep get worse. The money is staying at the top. The almighty dollar, mainly yours, ends up going to the wealthy. Blame it on Capitalism. It's only going to get worse and someday there won't be a middle-class. Just poor and rich. Corporations will own everything.

Media Consolidation: The Illusion of Choice (Infographic) - Frugal Dad (http://frugaldad.com/2011/11/22/media-consolidation-infographic/)

This is a link with an interesting chart somewhat along the lines of this thread.

Blame it on Capitalism. It's only going to get worse and someday there won't be a middle-class. Just poor and rich. Corporations will own everything.

You had might right up to the end - as what we see in American today is NOT capitalism. Anyhow, for those you that hate the 1%, I'll bet you love the pre-tax savings in your 401K that makes investing in Wall Street the only way you can save for your retirement. Let's take away all the tax benefits afforded Wall Street and see how long these huge salaries at public companies last.

Capitalism is like a game of monopoly. It drags on well past the point of being fun until the winner ends up with all the money and property and the loser flips the board over. Then you start over and play again.

On the fun side - if you guys get the chance watch the movie Fierce Creatures. It is a companion film to A Fish Called Wanda. It is pretty darn funny and offers insight into how and why decisions are made at some companies.

fU9zV8gdEUw

Ignore my previous post. It was a link I followed from a thread here yesterday.:o

Capitalism is like a game of monopoly. It drags on well past the point of being fun until the winner ends up with all the money and property and the loser flips the board over. Then you start over and play again.

So what you are saying its only going to get worse until the general population marches into New York and Washington and tears it all down? :)

So what you are saying its only going to get worse until the general population marches into New York and Washington and tears it all down? :)

No need for that. The economic system some believe to be capitalism (but is really some kind of top-down collective financial system) is well on the way to self-destruction as we speak. I give it 7 more years.

No need for that. The economic system some believe to be capitalism (but is really some kind of top-down collective financial system) is well on the way to self-destruction as we speak. I give it 7 more years.

Ya ya ya...you and your 2020 stuff. Back to the Politics section with you. :-P LOL

Before we stray too far from the Topic Under Consideration . . . =)
Thanks, Again, Buffalo Bill for providing the food for thought.
(hope that whole moneygraph vidthing didn't cross the border inta politics . . . some poly ticks are overwhelming in terms of sucking the life blood out of a real discussion . . . 'ceptin' fer talkin' t' zombies . . . =)

Here is a vid clip/teaser of a more localized, albeit non-contemporary, example of the "problem"/"definition of"/ awaiting a suggested solution.
KbtVaTWs6II
The "punch line" of the jape is: "Wow," ['dennis moore'] This redistribution of the wealth is more complicated than I might have first imagined!"(in response to the recipient peon/peasants' distain at the over-gifting of lupins). =)


So what you are saying its only going to get worse until the general population marches into New York and Washington and tears it all down? :)

Instead of that . . . might i suggest a nice game of Canasta? . . . perhaps Hearts? . . . maybe Spades? (forget bridge =)
And then there is always . . . Tribond . . . Chess . . . and Go. oh yeah: and Risk.

Not many Henry Fords left today...if any.

Not many Henry Fords back then either!

You'll find inequality in everything: Wealth, intelligence, health, musical ability, compassion for your fellow many. All are controlled by the individual, i.e., I can pursue wealth but have an otherwise pretty empty life. Then what have I done? I'm a one percenter and, in our country, despised by everyone. But if I pursue intelligence, then I'm a brainiac and/or ivy tower dwelling nerd, but am I similarly despised?

Why do we dislike one and not the other?

Not many Henry Fords back then either!

You'll find inequality in everything: Wealth, intelligence, health, musical ability, compassion for your fellow many. All are controlled by the individual, i.e., I can pursue wealth but have an otherwise pretty empty life. Then what have I done? I'm a one percenter and, in our country, despised by everyone. But if I pursue intelligence, then I'm a brainiac and/or ivy tower dwelling nerd, but am I similarly despised?

Why do we dislike one and not the other?

EXCELLENT observation and question(s)! I think that perhaps a possible, partial, answer might help define the borders between greed, avarice, covetousness and other alternatives . . . (geez . . . no wonder the pope had to resign . . . +)

Indeed all those sad rich folks want is to be loved. Is that so wrong?

Heck . . . even J.P. Morgan, Andrew Carnegie, John D. Rockefeller and some others realized they couldn't take it with them and tried to spread around a lot of what they had accumulated while they still had the opportunity to do so. Without being directly forced to. Sort of a "conscience" think I suppose. Implying the possession of a soul. =)

Of course--being as smart and industrious as they were--they may have been trying selfishly to avert a Domestic Bolshevik Revolution that would have made the French Revolution look like a picnic in the park by Monet or Manet or whomever.

ps: rumor has it that Henry Ford was a big fan of Hitler . . . for awhile/to a point.Have you seen "The Men Who Built America"? If you haven't, I highly reccomend it. Very interesting show. :)

You'll find inequality in everything: Wealth, intelligence, health, musical ability, compassion for your fellow many. All are controlled by the individual, i.e., I can pursue wealth but have an otherwise pretty empty life. Then what have I done? I'm a one percenter and, in our country, despised by everyone. But if I pursue intelligence, then I'm a brainiac and/or ivy tower dwelling nerd, but am I similarly despised?


Yes, just by a different set of people.

Not many Henry Fords back then either!

You'll find inequality in everything: Wealth, intelligence, health, musical ability, compassion for your fellow many. All are controlled by the individual, i.e., I can pursue wealth but have an otherwise pretty empty life. Then what have I done? I'm a one percenter and, in our country, despised by everyone. But if I pursue intelligence, then I'm a brainiac and/or ivy tower dwelling nerd, but am I similarly despised?

Why do we dislike one and not the other?WHY WON'T THIS LIKE BUTTON WORK?????*pushes like button a million times* lol...

WHY WON'T THIS LIKE BUTTON WORK?????*pushes like button a million times* lol...

Because you pushed it too much and broke it. Duh.

When I went to work at my first law job, I started out making four times my public teacher salary. I made more in my first year of lawyering (at a state agency) than I would make with a doctorate as a teacher, today - twenty years later. Pretending this is just about the rich CEO's is selective outrage. If you are driving a desk and making more money than the guys who are out there in all weather fixing power lines, you are doing the same thing as the CEO's, just on a smaller scale. Wages aren't based on relative merit, face it, and the ambitious among us all play that game. If you think you deserve so much more than the teachers or the garbage collectors or the linemen, chances are, you've decided that is the case because of reasons that have nothing to do with anything other than the market and the subjective notion that somehow, you deserve more or have a college degree.

Because you pushed it too much and broke it. Duh.Uh-oh. Did I break it for you too? ;) lol.

Here's one for us to think about . . . Is "Wealth" defined by what you personally possess or your ability to share?

I saw the video yesterday and it really makes you think. We all need to realize that we are being pitted against each other in an intentional race to the bottom. At no point in our countries history have the upper class, middle class, working class and poor had so little. Yet we march around defending the very people who dont give a crap about us. There is no right or left, black or white because its all distraction in a game we were setup to lose.

Its all of us against a very few and very powerful people who control everything.

Its all of us against a very few and very powerful people who control everything.

True. This video and these arguments arent really about people not being proactive and motivated in their professional lives, because sometimes there is only so much you can do. The reason we see a shrinking middle class and a lower class that is not increasing their earnings comes mostly from public policies and government doings. Through power, money and lobbying the very top of the wealthy folks are able to dictate the way things are done, which in turn benefit them while most everyone else sees no increase in income.

If the deck is stacked, the game isn't fair. Except for the dealer who doesn't care about "fairness" anyway.
(and, frankly, when has the world ever been "fair"? =)

The point is--perhaps echoing what someone said, above--we don't really have "Capitalism" in this country anymore. It didn't evolve--through the intermediate step of "Socialism"--into "Communism" (as some economic philosophers back in the Nineteenth Century predicted) but rather into whatever it is that we have now.

I might interject here that, in my opinion only, the reason that neither pure laisse-faire Capitalism nor pure Communism will ever work as an economic system is due to the human flaws of laziness and greed that are both difficult to overcome. Especially when the government feeds the laziness side and the media works on nurturing the greed.

I heard on the radio (NPR) that Alvin Lee just passed away . . .
Here's a tune that he had a lot to do with, that I think is fitting for the topic under discussion.
jzrUqAtUcpU

p.s.: In my opinion only, "Covetousness" is the most "deadly sin" of all
because it sucks all of the Joy out of Life. (Again: Just my opinion.)

I saw the video yesterday and it really makes you think. We all need to realize that we are being pitted against each other in an intentional race to the bottom. At no point in our countries history have the upper class, middle class, working class and poor had so little. Yet we march around defending the very people who dont give a crap about us. There is no right or left, black or white because its all distraction in a game we were setup to lose.

Its all of us against a very few and very powerful people who control everything.

I'll buy what you are selling and would like to sign up for your newsletter.

I saw the video yesterday and it really makes you think. We all need to realize that we are being pitted against each other in an intentional race to the bottom. At no point in our countries history have the upper class, middle class, working class and poor had so little. Yet we march around defending the very people who dont give a crap about us. There is no right or left, black or white because its all distraction in a game we were setup to lose.

Its all of us against a very few and very powerful people who control everything.
While I agree with your point about being pitted against each other (a certain current occupant of the oval office comes to mind), I am not so sure about the part I bolded. I think it can be argued that the whatever class you are talking about, has more now than at any point in our history. It is a matter of priorities. How many "poor" folks have the latest, greatest electronic gadgets, pro-athlete shoes, celebrity endorsed clothing/perfumes etc?

I remember when driving out here from Florida back in the 80s on state/county roads and driving by buildings that looked like they had been abandoned decades ago, ready to fall in on themselves with the next strong gust of wind. EXCEPT for the satellite dishes, new cars & trucks in the dirt driveway etc etc etc.

I suppose that I will just and simply "pick up my [guitar] and play . . . just like yesterday . . . and hope we don't get fooled again . . ."
Not that "my" response to the perception of reality presented in the OP's Vid (excellent) is "the answer" . . . only a suggestion about "picking the battles one chooses to fight" . . . =)

Remember: Problem-Pointers are A Dime-A-Dozen.
Solution-Providers are Far More Rare.
(and, therefore, more expensive . . . valuable . . . supply and demand and all that)

Start by "Flippin' the Cliché" (based on real-life encounters with bigwigs): "So . . . [guvnah] . . . If you are so rich . . . 'ow come you ain't so smart?"
(don't say anything else . . . await their reply. =)

Watch and see if "they" really want to be "pitted" or if "they" have no clue as to the meaning of the question.
In either case, be merciful and kind.

(and, regardless of response or lack thereof, hand them a copy of A Golden Rule(r) along with a sincere wish to 'ave a nice day . . .)