Great blog. It looks like this guy did his research before coming to OKC and knew where to go and painted a much more positive image of this city than many other's I've seen.

I'm sure some more seasoned posters will correct me on this, but outside of business travel I don't know many people who would go visit cities, other than a select few (NYC, SF, Chi, LA, etc.), unless they were going to visit family or friends in the area or had a specific need to go. I could have just been oblivious, but even in KC I never heard about it being a "tourist" spot. The main thing that brought people from outside the area to the city was Royals and Chiefs games or alumni from KU making trips back for whatever reason. At least as far as I knew :rolleyes:

And I agree, those photos were exceptional. It's too bad people aren't forced to sit down and look at photos like those before they post opinions on cities like OKC on the internet. There's nothing boring and redneck about those.

And I agree, those photos were exceptional. It's too bad people aren't forced to sit down and look at photos like those before they post opinions on cities like OKC on the internet. There's nothing boring and redneck about those.

Here are a couple of posts from somebody on City-Data forum who just moved to OKC from the UK. If anybody here has a City-Data account, you know that OKC is not well liked on there and the negative Pre-MAPS image is the one most of the posters accept as fact.


I've been here (in Norman) for about 5 weeks now following a relocation from the UK. I can catagorically state that the scare mongering on this form re religion and Conservatism is fastly out of proporation with the reality. At least of what I've seen. Talking to people from my office that *impression* of OKC and area is about 15 yrs out of date. Ok ,its not LA here, but hey the Flaming Lips are from OKC. Mumford and Sons and Alabama Shakes have played Guthrie last month and the Lumineers played this week.

In fact the overidding obsession amongst the vast majority seems to be love of everthing sports related, particulary the OU football team. That and the OKC Thunder are the true religion here it seems.

I was genuinely worried about relgion and conservatism being ramed doen my throat , but It's simply not the case. No matter what your culture or creed the vast majority of the people here are super friendly and welcoming.




Ok , We've been here about 5 weeks so enough time to get an overall impression. Well of Norman anyway. I must say reading this forum from the UK really had a worried about what we were walking in on. There are some real scre mongers on here. Hey... OK is pretty OK really.

First the Good.

We've found Norman to be a very safe environment
Lots of good restaurants
People here are super friendly
Guestroom Records - Probably one of the best record shops in the world.
You guys just love the Sooners and big trucks.
The Sun shines (For a person used to living under tupperware, I love the sun)
As a road cyclist, car drivers are very respectful (compared to the UK at least)
The OU campus
Norman schools are really good. My kids love it here.
did I mention Guestroom records ?

... the bad. (not much really).. so some minor gripes

As a cyclist some of the roads are in really bad condition
The whole "cant buy Wine in Supermarkets thing" !! (I guess that's more of a state wide thing)
The house rental market here is really aggressive (but I get why)
Cox cable with Contour is overy complicated. This is something we do much better in the UK


Personally, I think much of the negative stereotype keeps getting regurgitated by either people who know a little about the state politics and have only been to OKC driving through on I-40. The number of country stations on the radio probably confirms their "redneck" perception. Also, in the case of City-Data, a lot of blue staters simply jump on the bandwagon of bashing OKC.

I'm sure some more seasoned posters will correct me on this, but outside of business travel I don't know many people who would go visit cities, other than a select few (NYC, SF, Chi, LA, etc.), unless they were going to visit family or friends in the area or had a specific need to go. I could have just been oblivious, but even in KC I never heard about it being a "tourist" spot. The main thing that brought people from outside the area to the city was Royals and Chiefs games or alumni from KU making trips back for whatever reason. At least as far as I knew :rolleyes:

I agree with this. OKC is not the type of city that would ever really be a tourist destination except to people from surrounding states. A good tourist destination isn't necissarily just the large cities, but cities that offer things that are unique that you can't get elsewhere. OKC just isn't that type of city (and neither is Charlotte). A lot of people do come to OKC on business or for various reasons however and I think a lot of them are very surprised if they are able to break past the stereotype.

Business travelers who are here for meetings/conferences also plan leisure return trips if a city engages them enough and they can't fit in enough sightseeing. I have done this a number of times myself, returning to vacation in a city which I had previously visited on business.

Because of the nature and location of my business, my employees and I routinely engage visitors to OKC and ask them where they are from and why they are visiting OKC. I have spoken to many people who have returned here by choice to explore a place that surprised them on a business or other type of visit. I was mildly surprised the first time I heard it; now not so much.

But there is quite a bit of ignorance among OKC residents as to just how many out-of-state and international travelers are here on a daily basis. EVERY DAY we talk with people from places like the UK, France, Germany, Sweden, Taiwan, Jordan, Japan, China, India and elsewhere. Did they all travel here just to visit OKC? Of course not. We are PART of their trip to see/experience the United States.

How many of you turn vacations into road trips, or hub-and-spoke from one place while visiting an entire region? That's the way I usually travel, and so do many others. If a trip involves this part of the country, OKC often becomes a key part of it.

We are an important stop on Route 66, which many view as the holy grail when it comes to experiencing America. We are also a major outpost/overnight/crossroads on three major interstates. So our job is to catch people passing through and offer them reason enough to linger. These days we do an excellent job of this, and have developed an excellent reputation in the travel industry.

People who think we are not and will never be a tourist destination are, put simply, clueless to the reality that ALREADY exists here.

An integral part of OKC's tourist future lies with the Native American cultural center. The state really needs to get with the program and make it a reality. An updated Science Museum will also be a great thing for people who have kids. I've said this before but it surprises me with OKC being at a major national crossroads that it does not have a real theme park. I don't see how such a thing would not be a huge hit.

I don't really do theme parks. How does Frontier City compare to others?

Frontier City is a mere street carnival compared to parks like Six Flags in Texas or Carrowinds in Charlotte. It's fun for the kids, but not really for teen or adult thrill seekers like a major park would be. Magic Springs in Hot Springs, Arkansas, while by no means a great park compared to the two I mentioned, is better than Frontier City.

Frontier City is a mere street carnival compared to parks like Six Flags in Texas or Carrowinds in Charlotte. It's fun for the kids, but not really for teen or adult thrill seekers like a major park would be. Magic Springs in Hot Springs, Arkansas, while by no means a great park compared to the two I mentioned, is better than Frontier City.

Yeah, I've never been to Frontier City but I have driven by. Growing up around KC I have been to Worlds of Fun MANY times, and Frontier City doesn't look like it stacks up too well to that. I think the problem is with Six Flags Over Texas so close in Arlington nobody wants to make a major theme park investment in OKC.

Frontier City is a mere street carnival compared to parks like Six Flags in Texas or Carrowinds in Charlotte. It's fun for the kids, but not really for teen or adult thrill seekers like a major park would be. Magic Springs in Hot Springs, Arkansas, while by no means a great park compared to the two I mentioned, is better than Frontier City.I might get some crap for saying this, but I think a Disney resort/theme park would be very successful here. We are located nearly in the center of the country and have some of the bigegst interstates passing right through us, I44/I40/I35. They could call it Disney Universe or something. If we got a Disney park here, I bet a Universal Theme park would be built here soon after, it's a win win win. I know it will likely never happen, but if my dreams come true, I would like to one day build a true theme park here in OKC.

I've also thought that if a true theme park were to be built here, it would be cool if they made Frontier City the biggest halloween scare house in the world. That would be freakin sick!!!! It would obviously have to renamed, but I would support it. It could be open from September 10th to November 5th.

Also just to say, if a new Disney park were to built in the U.S., it would be very likely go in Dallas or Houston.

Plupan, I won't give you crap for saying it but Disney won't go to a location where they can't operate year round in reasonably good weather conditions and OKC doesn't qualify. I know they are in Paris and Tokyo but those cities are somewhat unique in that regard.

Plupan, I won't give you crap for saying it but Disney won't go to a location where they can't operate year round in reasonably good weather conditions and OKC doesn't qualify. I know they are in Paris and Tokyo but those cities are somewhat unique in that regard.Yeah, I figured as much. If a new Disney park is to be built in the US, Houston will almost certainly get it,

Among the important things for OKC to strengthen tourism:

1. Better public transit: Bad transit simply eliminate or hurts perception with a percentage of tourists. For some it makes it a non-option city. For some, they just prefer not to drive all about a city they've never been to.

2. Much stronger core area. Imagine if Capitol Hill, Plaza, 23rd, Western Ave, Film Row, 39th/Penn, and Belle Isle were all even 25% as marketable as Bricktown. If all of those areas became vibrant districts (which will of course take time) then it increases the chances for a tourist to miss something. People feeling like they missed out on something not only generates repeat tourism, it generates excitement and reason for people who hear these tourists' stories to add OKC to the list.

3. Educated and engaged citizens. This is probably the most important aspect to going from a place known for The Memorial, The Thunder, and Bricktown (maybe a few museums) to a place where #2 becomes a reality.

Yeah, I've never been to Frontier City but I have driven by. Growing up around KC I have been to Worlds of Fun MANY times, and Frontier City doesn't look like it stacks up too well to that. I think the problem is with Six Flags Over Texas so close in Arlington nobody wants to make a major theme park investment in OKC.

I disagree that OKC is too close to Arlington. Charlotte is around the same distance from Atlanta and it can support a major park. Kansas City is just a few hours from St. Louis and they both have parks. If OKC's population is the worry, it also has to be considered that a major park in OKC would also draw from Tulsa, Wichita, Ft Smith, and maybe even Little Rock. Metro population itself isn't important to supporting a theme park as the location and draw it would have from surrounding areas. Also, unless it's improved in the past few years, Worlds of Fun in Kansas City has seen better days. It's still a significant cut above Frontier City but not what it was back in the 1990s.

Among the important things for OKC to strengthen tourism:

1. Better public transit: Bad transit simply eliminate or hurts perception with a percentage of tourists. For some it makes it a non-option city. For some, they just prefer not to drive all about a city they've never been to.

2. Much stronger core area. Imagine if Capitol Hill, Plaza, 23rd, Western Ave, Film Row, 39th/Penn, and Belle Isle were all even 25% as marketable as Bricktown. If all of those areas became vibrant districts (which will of course take time) then it increases the chances for a tourist to miss something. People feeling like they missed out on something not only generates repeat tourism, it generates excitement and reason for people who hear these tourists' stories to add OKC to the list.

3. Educated and engaged citizens. This is probably the most important aspect to going from a place known for The Memorial, The Thunder, and Bricktown (maybe a few museums) to a place where #2 becomes a reality.

I definitely agree with #1 and #2. I don't know that having Joe Smith from Edmond be more knowledgable about the city really matters much.

People should be able to take public transit from the airport to any major attraction within the city. Having a denser city as well will mean there are more things to do. We need to build up instead of spreading out. If I'm here for a business trip, I should be able to get on a train at the airport, take it to my hotel downtown, attend my conference, then go to the zoo, or the racetrack, the Cowboy Hall of Fame, Frontier City, basically any kind of touristy thing I want to do, all by public transit. I shouldn't have to rent a car. That will make it more likely that I will want to come back.

Stockyards City could be a big attraction if we were to develop it the right way. A streetcar line running down past the Farmer's Market building to that area would really help things along. Tourist things don't have to just be theme parks. Going into a store and buying a $300 pair of cowboy boots or a hat can be just as much of a tourist thing.

I disagree that OKC is too close to Arlington. Charlotte is around the same distance from Atlanta and it can support a major park. Kansas City is just a few hours from St. Louis and they both have parks. If OKC's population is the worry, it also has to be considered that a major park in OKC would also draw from Tulsa, Wichita, Ft Smith, and maybe even Little Rock. Metro population itself isn't important to supporting a theme park as the location and draw it would have from surrounding areas. Also, unless it's improved in the past few years, Worlds of Fun in Kansas City has seen better days. It's still a significant cut above Frontier City but not what it was back in the 1990s.

I will definitely agree that WOF has seen better days since I was a kid, but it still has a lot better selection of thrill rides (coasters, etc.). I was actually there over the summer, and I thought to myself how much cleaner it used to be when I was little. I wondered if Six Flags in St. Louis had something to do with its decline, or if the owner is just cheap.

I definitely agree with #1 and #2. I don't know that having Joe Smith from Edmond be more knowledgable about the city really matters much.

People should be able to take public transit from the airport to any major attraction within the city. Having a denser city as well will mean there are more things to do. We need to build up instead of spreading out. If I'm here for a business trip, I should be able to get on a train at the airport, take it to my hotel downtown, attend my conference, then go to the zoo, or the racetrack, the Cowboy Hall of Fame, Frontier City, basically any kind of touristy thing I want to do, all by public transit. I shouldn't have to rent a car. That will make it more likely that I will want to come back.

Stockyards City could be a big attraction if we were to develop it the right way. A streetcar line running down past the Farmer's Market building to that area would really help things along. Tourist things don't have to just be theme parks. Going into a store and buying a $300 pair of cowboy boots or a hat can be just as much of a tourist thing.

If Joe Smith from Edmond doesn't know about any of the other cool districts and goes to Bricktown and meets someone from out of town, he may be the only other person that asks "Hey, I'm here for a couple of days, where else should I go" and Joe says "This is pretty much it...we usually go down to Dallas for fun weekends" then that hurts.

Also, engaged means that they're going to these different districts and attractions and increasing the number of people. A city needs consistent large crowds, even on weeknights, at different places to create the impression of being somewhere worth spending your time. Engaged is also likely to help keep the individual neighborhoods/districts nicer.

Among the important things for OKC to strengthen tourism:

1. Better public transit: Bad transit simply eliminate or hurts perception with a percentage of tourists. For some it makes it a non-option city. For some, they just prefer not to drive all about a city they've never been to.

2. Much stronger core area. Imagine if Capitol Hill, Plaza, 23rd, Western Ave, Film Row, 39th/Penn, and Belle Isle were all even 25% as marketable as Bricktown. If all of those areas became vibrant districts (which will of course take time) then it increases the chances for a tourist to miss something. People feeling like they missed out on something not only generates repeat tourism, it generates excitement and reason for people who hear these tourists' stories to add OKC to the list.

3. Educated and engaged citizens. This is probably the most important aspect to going from a place known for The Memorial, The Thunder, and Bricktown (maybe a few museums) to a place where #2 becomes a reality.

I definitely think we should be striving for these things because they are good for the community overall, but I don't think they are going to do anything with tourist numbers. Lots of big tourist attractions are absent of all 3 (see: Las Vegas, Orlando, etc.) Of course, the ship has sailed for any sort of organized gaming district or big theme park, respectively.

I think the secret to having more tourists is under our nose. We need to embrace our local western and native american heritage. Now that's not to say turn this entire place into some kitschy fake wild west town. And frankly "cowboys and indians" is not my thing. But I do respect it as part of this area's identity, and it has always disappointed me how many people poo poo our heritage because some people in NYC or LA might turn their noses up at it. No doubt we can promote other things (Art museums, restaraunts, etc.) but I think one of the underrated aspects of OKC is that a modern city can blend so seamlessly with the "wild wild west" aspects.

In today's generic America with miles of mind-numbing sameness, you wouldn't believe how many people embrace what we would consider the mundane just because is it different. When my friends came in from NY last year, I remember how blown away they were at the sight of cattle and oil wells near Will Rogers. So I actually added a visit to the OK history center on our visit so they could see the oil and agriculture exhibits. Sure we did the usual (Bricktown, memorial, Myriad Gardens, etc.) but I actually think they enjoyed that stuff more because it was something they had never experienced.

If we were to have an amusement park that was a destination point for those "outside" Oklahoma, and drawing consumers from the surounding regional base, then it would have to have several points of attraction:

1. A flavor of Oklahoma, that is unique to us, or one that we can own. ( ex. The Cattle Drive ; The Stampede ; The Oil Boom ;) The F5 ( i'm not being insensitive to the dear loved ones lost, but their courage. The Country Music , Oklahoma Style. )

2. A NEW location that is user friendly and in a prime location. I-40 & I-35 ..east of Native American Cultural Center.

3. It would need a draw of rides that can compete w/ Six Flags and have something that is " The Fastest , or The Tallest. " ...A real Buffalo Stampede that shakes the earth kind-of-thing.

First class only, not a re-do of Frontier City, but a 100% Go Big or Go Home Place. If the Big Texan in Amarrillo can draw people, surely we can too. ????

If we were to have an amusement park that was a destination point for those "outside" Oklahoma, and drawing consumers from the surounding regional base, then it would have to have several points of attraction:

1. A flavor of Oklahoma, that is unique to us, or one that we can own. ( ex. The Cattle Drive ; The Stampede ; The Oil Boom ;) The F5 ( i'm not being insensitive to the dear loved ones lost, but their courage. The Country Music , Oklahoma Style. )

2. A NEW location that is user friendly and in a prime location. I-40 & I-35 ..east of Native American Cultural Center.

3. It would need a draw of rides that can compete w/ Six Flags and have something that is " The Fastest , or The Tallest. " ...A real Buffalo Stampede that shakes the earth kind-of-thing.

First class only, not a re-do of Frontier City, but a 100% Go Big or Go Home Place. If the Big Texan in Amarrillo can draw people, surely we can too. ????

I completely agree with this. It really surprises me Frontier City has been able to remain open thing long. Many third-rate amusement parks like it have shut down over the past decade. I am not sure about putting it downtown though. Amusement parks, with the exception of places like Denver, are usually out in suburban areas because the land is cheap. Frontier City is in a perfect location and with some serious investment could be completely reborn. It is already doing the Wild West thing. Add a few WORLD CLASS coasters and it would be really onto something. Also rebrand it. Don't call it Frontier City.

If we were to have an amusement park that was a destination point for those "outside" Oklahoma, and drawing consumers from the surounding regional base, then it would have to have several points of attraction:

1. A flavor of Oklahoma, that is unique to us, or one that we can own. ( ex. The Cattle Drive ; The Stampede ; The Oil Boom ;) The F5 ( i'm not being insensitive to the dear loved ones lost, but their courage. The Country Music , Oklahoma Style. )



2. A NEW location that is user friendly and in a prime location. I-40 & I-35 ..east of Native American Cultural Center.

3. It would need a draw of rides that can compete w/ Six Flags and have something that is " The Fastest , or The Tallest. " ...A real Buffalo Stampede that shakes the earth kind-of-thing.

First class only, not a re-do of Frontier City, but a 100% Go Big or Go Home Place. If the Big Texan in Amarrillo can draw people, surely we can too. ????

Ok, one more idea... We could have that guy from the Branson area ( the John Wayne look-a-like ) and Have him be the "face" of the Park, and make it the Chisholm Heritage Park.. w/ museum's too. All the fun stuff.

I haven't been to Frontier City in several years, but at the time it was comparable to Six Flags over Texas (just on a smaller scale). That is why when the owner of Frontier City bought Six Flags (corporate headquarters were here in OKC), I was surprised that it didn't get rebranded as a Six Flags park. But it was due to the size limitations. If you bought a Six Flags season pass, you could get into any of the Six Flags branded parks but only offered discounted admission to Frontier City.

I haven't been to Frontier City in several years, but at the time it was comparable to Six Flags over Texas (just on a smaller scale). That is why when the owner of Frontier City bought Six Flags (corporate headquarters were here in OKC), I was surprised that it didn't get rebranded as a Six Flags park. But it was due to the size limitations. If you bought a Six Flags season pass, you could get into any of the Six Flags branded parks but only offered discounted admission to Frontier City.

Frontier City is owned by CNL financial holdings and currently has no ties to SIX FLAGS.

Frontier City is owned by CNL financial holdings and currently has no ties to SIX FLAGS.

That is even better. We dont have to have any connection w/ Six Flags, thus we don't have to have permision to "out-do" them.

Chisholm Trail Museum & Heritage Park ??? ...This could be a CitySlickers moment for all business executives / conference attendees to Drive some cattle across the Canadian. ??? And we could have a streetcar to pick them up and drop'em off.

I like the name "Frontier City" and I'm ok with the location. But I totally agree that the owners or some investors should adopt a go big mentality and do as bcris recommends (add several world class thrill rides, including a few coasters). The land is already there as is the infrastructure (hotels, roadways) and FC is the closest thing in OKC to tertiary markets of Tulsa and Wichita; so build on that and market the heck out of it (a la world's of fun commercials I remember seeing on Wichita tv back in the 80s).

there is no reason FC can't be a solid second tier theme park. We don't need it to 'beat' six flags but it should be a solid regional draw and compete with WoF in the North I35 megopolis area.

Frontier City is owned by CNL financial holdings and currently has no ties to SIX FLAGS.

It was owned by Premier Parks which owned Six Flags and Frontier City and was Headquartered in the building south of Frontier City up until five or so years ago.

Let's take a look at what we have to offer, that on a regional level... works.

Like all destination places, you need an identity. Single purpose identities are easier to accomplish. ( ie. Nike, still uses "Just Do It". ). One thing we don't want is trying to be everything, to everydody. That kind of positioning is expensive & takes way too long to accomplish.

we need to "hit" this target of ... Experience. If they have an experience that exceeds their expectations, then they will tell others, and they will come back. ( Branding 101 )

There are (3) groups that we should build to:
1 ) Urban ( Downtown & Hip crowd , Young & Vibrant ). As a City, we need to capture that same kind of everyday, statement. Ex. OKC, ..Sinatra's kind of Town. A Swanky kind of place.
This needs to be progressive w/ a cutting-edge feel. Central Park in OKC. ( NYC on the Plains ) ??? ... sure, why not!
2 ) Family Group .... If we bring our family on an extended weekend, what could we do that will "hit" that target of ... Yes, we had a great time and would love to come back. Make their getting around "incredibly" easy & hassle free. Help them w/ the stroller issues by using an "easy access light rail" to get on & off. They can get to Norman / OKC / Edmond / Airport and never have to rent a car.
The Adventure District could build to this concept. The investments in Entertainment are easier to accomplish if you are assurred customers. Easy in / Easy out is what this group MUST have.
3 ) The Senior Group ... This is a group, worth investing in. They are living longer. The are the busiest group of bees you will ever see. They spend money. Let's build our infrastructure on them as well. The light rail ( not the big heavy railroad ) will be their "choice" when traveling from place to place. Don't put Grandma on the bus. Let her walk on to the pleasant light rail ( cart ) that is not "Big & Scary" to approach. If we build this system, then this group will definately be repeat customers. This group built Branson.

This new Light Rail system could be exactly what OKC needs, ...so again, we need to exceed their expectations and not just with a happy medium. None of these (3) goups mentioned get excited about mediocrity.

Ex. I hear Oklahoma City is building a first class Central Park w/ High End Retail / Dining / & Condo's. Yes, we just got our second 5 star hotel.
I hear Oklahoma City is building a light rail system for the entire metro ? ...so I could move to Norman or Yukon, and catch a pleasant ride each morning / evening to downtown in 15 min? ...Wow! Yes, small / medium sized business continue to invest back-into their business. ( growth on growth ).
I hear Oklahoma City is building a Space Needle that is Twice as tall as Seattles.... you bet we are. Just making a statement.
I hear OKlahoma City is the place I must open a regional business operation(s) for our next expansion. You better, or you will get left behind.

MAPS3 is helping, but it can't be everything. Let's all get in the boat and start rowing. ( speaking of rowing.... Did you kow that Oklahoma City is the .... ) lol.

...this is not a political statement, but just someone that want's to see this all happen in the next 10 -15 years.

^ Sell it brother, sell it!
;)

Frontier City is owned by CNL financial holdings and currently has no ties to SIX FLAGS.

You are right...I didn't mean to imply there was still a connection, sorry if that wasn't clear.

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