I was going to let this go, but what the %^&$$ are you talking about? Jim was saying that he didn't feel completely safe driving through a neighborhood that he once lived in. The fact the "hood" has taken over the area is not the problem?

Not entirely sure how you came to the conclusion that those are my feelings.


The problem is Jim not feeling safe driving through there?

"Part of" is an important modifier that ought not be left out.


In fact, you think because of that, he's part of the problem? Is this some kind of weird "diversity training" claptrap? Sometimes I think the whole fricking world has gone insane.


But what did he mean when he said if Jim didn't feel safe - he's "part of the problem?" It's like we're all supposed to celebrate rough neighborhoods? Adds to the "diversity?"

Where did you get this idea that I'm pro rough neighborhoods?

Look...I didn't say "Oh, if you won't take a leisurely stroll at Midnight in this 'hood' then you're part of the problem". Jim intimated that he would hesitate to simply drive through this area, ostensibly at any time. So he would defer his traffic via an indirect route were he traveling in proximity, again, at any time based on Jim's non-specification.

Nowhere in OKC is so bad that you can't DRIVE through it between 8AM and 6PM...unless you've done something to piss someone off in the area. This is not the bad areas of a big city. If your sense of security is so timid as to force a detour in your route around an area that simply is not that bad, then you're enabling the sequestering of an area to a perpetual roughness: Activity in an area discourages rough behavior. If you're intentionally depriving an area of activity that would otherwise occur, then you're part of the segregating of said area away from the rest of the community.

Now, had Jim qualified his reasoning for not feeling secure, then the reason may have been acceptable to say "fair enough". But without qualification, no area in this city is an established haven of non-discretionary, impartial personal attacks simply for driving through. There are legitimate places in the world where that is the case, and nowhere in OKC is as such, or it would be a community wide understanding, and the city would issue warning about said area.

I was going to let this go, but what the %^&$$ are you talking about? Jim was saying that he didn't feel completely safe driving through a neighborhood that he once lived in. The fact the "hood" has taken over the area is not the problem? The problem is Jim not feeling safe driving through there? In fact, you think because of that, he's part of the problem?Is this some kind of weird "diversity training" claptrap? Sometimes I think the whole fricking world has gone insane.

Naw. Just some of the urbanistas. Besides this stupidity, upthread someone spoke many good things about OKC, they just happened to not be all be about downtown, but about other parts of OKC that are appealing and why. In so many words he was told to get out.

Cite: http://www.okctalk.com/ask-anything-about-okc/33138-what-happened-nw-okc-7.html#post695079

Now, had Jim qualified his reasoning for not feeling secure, then the reason may have been acceptable to say "fair enough". But without qualification, no area in this city is an established haven of non-discretionary, impartial personal attacks simply for driving through. There are legitimate places in the world where that is the case, and nowhere in OKC is as such, or it would be a community wide understanding, and the city would issue warning about said area.I had planned to simply ignore the comment, but it seems to have taken on a life of its own so here's a bit more detail: The crime rate in that area, while it seems to be dropping slowly, is still well above the city-wide average. The biggest problem appears to be drug houses, though, with fewer drive-by shootings than in the northeast or southwest quadrants (in both of which I've also lived; my sons still own the house on SW 60 to which I moved from NW 8, and mine was the last white family to leave the home on NE 44 that I occupied from 1962 ro 1967).

Back in the late 50s, when strict segregation was still the primary way of life in OKC, I had no probolem at all driving to a place near the old Moon Junior High on NE 2 known simply as "Tony's," which was an all-night joint run by the Potts twins with good barbecue, great camp coffee, and a rotating crowd of regulars that ranged from hookers to ad agency folk to squad cops. Everyone considered it as neutral ground and the conventional rules simply didn't apply. It was where I first heard Mason Williams play, and learned to appreciate Miles Davis. And the whole area was considered "off limits" by much of white OKC, although it was hardly a ghetto...

Actually, my remark that touched off this discussion was perhaps a bit more hyperbole, intended to drive home the extent to which that area declined between 1958 and today, than precise fact. I'd have no more problem driving through it during daylight hours than I would MLK, NE 36, or SW 29 -- which is to say, none at all. The wee hours of the morning, however, would make all those locations into places to be a bit more on my guard than, say, on the Kilpatrick Turnpike...

I had planned to simply ignore the comment, but it seems to have taken on a life of its own so here's a bit more detail: The crime rate in that area, while it seems to be dropping slowly, is still well above the city-wide average. The biggest problem appears to be drug houses, though, with fewer drive-by shootings than in the northeast or southwest quadrants (in both of which I've also lived; my sons still own the house on SW 60 to which I moved from NW 8, and mine was the last white family to leave the home on NE 44 that I occupied from 1962 ro 1967).

Back in the late 50s, when strict segregation was still the primary way of life in OKC, I had no probolem at all driving to a place near the old Moon Junior High on NE 2 known simply as "Tony's," which was an all-night joint run by the Potts twins with good barbecue, great camp coffee, and a rotating crowd of regulars that ranged from hookers to ad agency folk to squad cops. Everyone considered it as neutral ground and the conventional rules simply didn't apply. It was where I first heard Mason Williams play, and learned to appreciate Miles Davis. And the whole area was considered "off limits" by much of white OKC, although it was hardly a ghetto...

Actually, my remark that touched off this discussion was perhaps a bit more hyperbole, intended to drive home the extent to which that area declined between 1958 and today, than precise fact. I'd have no more problem driving through it during daylight hours than I would MLK, NE 36, or SW 29 -- which is to say, none at all. The wee hours of the morning, however, would make all those locations into places to be a bit more on my guard than, say, on the Kilpatrick Turnpike...

This is actually inline with what I actually suspected your thoughts on the matter to be. Having read many of your posts, I have a great respect for you Jim, and certainly my comments were not intended to paint you as a person who opposes "diversity".

The only reason I said what I said was because there are people who make such statements and mean them quite literally and seriously. And anytime the area in question comes up or anytime they're referencing the rough parts of OKC, they paint it as if it's a gang land that you're sure to lose your life if you enter.

In fairness to you, I should have addressed it dialectically rather than the sophomoric approach I took.

I blame it on being 4 Coop Native Ambers and an OU loss to Texas in to the day ;)

I hate to say this, but if you hesitate to drive through any part of OKC, you're part of the problem...

Many people would claim that if you DRIVE through ANY part of OKC you're, part of the problem.
They would prefer that you be on a bicycle or walking.

There is nowhere in OKC that anyone shouldn't feel safe driving through. I remember my dad driving me through the Bloody Nickel (Fifth Ward) in Houston when I was a youngster and I only needed to see the area once. Rough.

Many people would claim that if you DRIVE through ANY part of OKC you're, part of the problem.
They would prefer that you be on a bicycle or walking.

Ha!

Indeed.

There is nowhere in OKC that anyone shouldn't feel safe driving through. I remember my dad driving me through the Bloody Nickel (Fifth Ward) in Houston when I was a youngster and I only needed to see the area once. Rough.

It could not be any worse then North Las Vegas or North Tulsa......

There is NOWHERE in OKC that compares--in sheer drive-thru uneasiness--to Prospect Avenue, South of I-70, in KC.
You have to accidentally drive it once to know what I mean (and it seems to go on for miles and miles).

Years back, there were places I would go between 10 pm and 3 am that a lot of folks I know would feel uneasy going in daylight hours. Couldn't be helped. That's when folks were home and awake, some due to having worked more than one shift or job, some because 9 or 10 am was no different for them than 5 or 6 am was for me, the typical start of the day. Though if we were seeing someone at 2-3, the next office day did tend to start a bit later unless it was straight back in after an interview was over.

Even today, there's not really anywhere in the metro where I would divert myself around it, day or night, but yes, some areas my sense of awareness is a tad higher than it other areas. Let's be real. Some peeps wearing certain colors can be intent on messing with you. But to be fair, most patrol officers are really quite calm and collected day or night.

There is NOWHERE in OKC that compares--in sheer drive-thru uneasiness--to Prospect Avenue, South of I-70, in KC.
You have to accidentally drive it once to know what I mean (and it seems to go on for miles and miles).

I was just around 31st and Prospect Friday afternoon.

The parts of the 5th ward in Houston I saw were straight up projects like you'd see in rap videos. (for reference of this area, the area in this video is the 5th ward Dizzee Rascal-Where Da G's - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3ZZ7lRsUdI)), and you'd raise some eyebrows just strolling through there no matter the time of day.

South Chicago...it went on for miles...

South Chicago...it went on for miles...
Especially in the early to mid 90's when the burned out shells of those towers were still around and people were still living in the unburned units. Only one tower left now and it is vacant.

I was just around 31st and Prospect Friday afternoon.

The parts of the 5th ward in Houston I saw were straight up projects like you'd see in rap videos. (for reference of this area, the area in this video is the 5th ward Dizzee Rascal-Where Da G's - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3ZZ7lRsUdI)), and you'd raise some eyebrows just strolling through there no matter the time of day.

Hope you had a chance to "lunch" at Arthur Bryant's near 12th St. and Vine.

To paraphrase Hoyt Axton . . .
Well, I've never been to Compton,
but I've been to Kansas City.
Seen the debris and the sh!tty
Wish I was in OKCity.
(poetic license =)

Say! Maybe the Revitalization of NW OKC could include a Blues Club!
Dedicated, with sincere appreciation and a tip o' the proverbial hat, to Cuatrodemayo , <above> =)
Note to Music Fans: it is the entire album. let it play.
V0YNb235V2o
(This was on Vanguard Records--back in the day. Ironic? Iconic? mebbe. =)

There are no places in this state, and very few places in the United States that one could drive in during the day and have to worry about their safety. In the past few years I have driven through both The Bronx (Mott Haven) and Watts, Los Angeles and nobody yanked me from my car and pistol whipped me for my Raybans. Some parts of Watts were quite attractive, although many houses did have burglar bars on them. In fact I stopped at a gas station and most people were, gasp, pleasant. Now this isn't to say these areas don't have serious issues but most folks that live in these areas are hardworking working class fellow Americans.

Honestly, all this is just further proof how much this country has jumped the shark and succumb to fear. I blame it on the internet, personally. I knew a girl who went on a business trip to the east coast and actually demanded her flight be changed because she didn't want to connect in Detroit. She had heard how crime ridden Detroit was and was so fearful that she would be mugged or raped in the airport. Never mind the DTW is like 20 miles outside the city.

Re: Post 195, above.

Couldn't have stated it better myself. Thank you.

That's pretty sad, adaniel. Scared to fly through DTW?

I've known her and her family for some time now. They were seemingly normal people until about 3 years ago when her dad became an Alex Jones/doomsday prepper fanatic. In doing so, he started spouting off kookery about how rapists, murderers, and criminal evildoers are everywhere lurking in the shadows ready to pounce. This has started rubbing off on her, unfortunately.

I remember when she first told me about this and I actually laughed about it because I thought she was joking. She got really offended and had such a look of terror in her face, as if the mere act of flying over Detroit would get you shot by people on the ground lol. Last time I checked bullets don't go thousands of feet up in the air. The really sad thing is that I am noticing an irrational level of fear like this starting to take over a pretty large segment of society.

The really sad thing is that I am noticing an irrational level of fear like this starting to take over a pretty large segment of society.I don't think that's any accident, either. It seems to be an orchestrated effort among all the mass media and many officials, to a degree that Josef Goebbels would admire were he still around to see it.

When it becomes sufficiently pervasive, it will be time for The Man on the White Horse to come save us from the threats...

I don't think that's any accident, either. It seems to be an orchestrated effort among all the mass media and many officials, to a degree that Josef Goebbels would admire were he still around to see it.

When it becomes sufficiently pervasive, it will be time for The Man on the White Horse to come save us from the threats...

Are you being serious or sarcastic? Surely not serious. If so, this is akin to not flying through Detroit.

Some people must still check under their bed for the boogieman before they can go to sleep.

Classen SAS is not "in the hood". Gatewood UCD is a wonderful neighborhood with a great amenity in the Plaza District. I'm raising my family here.

Anyone who declares that Classen SAS is in the hood should first see if they can afford a new home across the street...lol

Are you being serious or sarcastic? Surely not serious. If so, this is akin to not flying through Detroit. I'm serious, although it might be only a result of intense competition on the part of the mass media, that makes the run-up to the war with Spain 110 years ago seem tame by comparison. However TPTB at the DHS and TSA certainly have been working overtime to keep the populace fearful, and where there's so much excrement I tend to suspect a pony somewhere in the vicinity...

A historian from whom I took several college courses back in the 50s confidently predicted we would have a second Civil War by 1990, based on the growing divide between the "haves" and "have-nots." He didn't live to see his prediction fail, and I'm quite glad that it did fail -- but the driving forces he saw some 60 years ago are still there, and we seem to have a totally dysfunctional federal government at the present time. In fact, that very lack of functionality seems to be the strongest argument against my observation!

Forget what happened to NW OKC, what the hell happened to this thread?

I'm just going to say this, if there is one place you should NOT drive around after 10pm, it is downtown Houston. The majority of it dies off after 10-11pm and it gets bad, REAL FAST! Trust me on this one.

I went up that way today and the NW portion of OKC was still there.

I'm just going to say this, if there is one place you should NOT drive around after 10pm, it is downtown Houston. The majority of it dies off after 10-11pm and it gets bad, REAL FAST! Trust me on this one.
I have walked around there about that time after a baseball game and never felt anything strange. Went and found some pizza and waled back to the Magnolia.

The only place that I have been kind of creeped out was at a cell site in Cleveland east of downtown (Deadmans curve area) and that was during the day. Nothing happened, just had a weird feeling about the place, just sort of remote and somewhat hidden, next to the tracks and I-90. No issues with the rest of the Cleveland metro area.

I'm just going to say this, if there is one place you should NOT drive around after 10pm, it is downtown Houston. The majority of it dies off after 10-11pm and it gets bad, REAL FAST! Trust me on this one.

You should probably define "downtown"...because I've never even been remotely worried when I've been in downtown Houston past 10PM.

Downtown Houston? What about Northwest Oklahoma City? The subject of this thread! Any volunteers to show how safe the following neighborhoods are?

All you'd need to do is one of the below after dark:

1. Take a walk down 23rd street from Rockwell to Meridian and back.
2. Take a walk down 10th street from Meridian to Council and back.
3. Take a walk down Wilshire Blvd. and go south on Lyrewood Lane to 63rd and back
4. Take a nice Sunday evening stroll down Wilshire, head north on Western and walk to 122nd and back.

Forget walking in downtown Houston after dark. Any takers for the life threatening experiment above?

Downtown Houston? What about Northwest Oklahoma City? The subject of this thread! Any volunteers to show how safe the following neighborhoods are?

All you'd need to do is one of the below after dark:

1. Take a walk down 23rd street from Rockwell to Meridian and back.
2. Take a walk down 10th street from Meridian to Council and back.
3. Take a walk down Wilshire Blvd. and go south on Lyrewood Lane to 63rd and back
4. Take a nice Sunday evening stroll down Wilshire, head north on Western and walk to 122nd and back.

Forget walking in downtown Houston after dark. Any takers for the life threatening experiment above?

Whats the prize?

3. Take a walk down Wilshire Blvd. and go south on Lyrewood Lane to 63rd and back


This is the roughest one you posted

Downtown Houston? What about Northwest Oklahoma City? The subject of this thread! Any volunteers to show how safe the following neighborhoods are?

All you'd need to do is one of the below after dark:

1. Take a walk down 23rd street from Rockwell to Meridian and back.
2. Take a walk down 10th street from Meridian to Council and back.
3. Take a walk down Wilshire Blvd. and go south on Lyrewood Lane to 63rd and back
4. Take a nice Sunday evening stroll down Wilshire, head north on Western and walk to 122nd and back.

Forget walking in downtown Houston after dark. Any takers for the life threatening experiment above?

Sounds like a plan for the next OKCTalk meetup. Who can suggest a really rough biker bar for drinks afterwards?

Biker bar? I thought most bikers these days were dentists?

Anyway, there's plenty more sketchy areas in OKC I wouldn't walk through at night than what you have listed.

Oklahoma City crime rates and statistics - NeighborhoodScout (http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ok/oklahoma-city/crime/)

Much of the inner city doesn't fair that well, especially compared to NW OKC.

Maybe you could rattle the chains on this place and ask for a beer. I believe some bikers used to hang out there and it's a lovely neighborhood.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=1940+south+central+ave+oklahoma+city&ll=35.445942,-97.506809&spn=0.004353,0.009645&sll=35.445931,-97.506791&safe=off&layer=c&cbp=13,126.88,,0,0&cbll=35.445942,-97.506809&hnear=1940+S+Central+Ave,+Oklahoma+City,+Oklahoma+ 73129&t=m&z=17&panoid=bSleYocUm5nitW5qaXl_mQ

I'm just going to say this, if there is one place you should NOT drive around after 10pm, it is downtown Houston. The majority of it dies off after 10-11pm and it gets bad, REAL FAST! Trust me on this one.

Are you referring to the Central Business District? Because I have walked by myself through there and it was no big deal. Just a couple of homeless bums, but nothing worse than what you would see in OKC.

Sounds like a plan for the next OKCTalk meetup. Who can suggest a really rough biker bar for drinks afterwards?

Since Tricky Dick's, Bosco's, Sinbad's and any of the ever changing cluster of extra low-life "Entertainment Venues" at 10th and MacArthur aren't around anymore, I really don't have any good suggestions . . . (as usual)

Since Tricky Dick's, Bosco's, Sinbad's and any of the ever changing cluster of extra low-life "Entertainment Venues" at 10th and MacArthur aren't around anymore, I really don't have any good suggestions . . . (as usual)

Isn't that corner owned by someone named Shadid? If so, is there any family ties with the other Shadid?

As far as biker bars go, remember the Draught Board somewhere on May across the street from about where Lynn Hickey was?

The former Lamplighter on 10th street is now Margarita Island or somesuch and seems to draw a crowd along with some bikes. They don't look like 1% bikers.

Biker bar? I thought most bikers these days were dentists?

Anyway, there's plenty more sketchy areas in OKC I wouldn't walk through at night than what you have listed.

Oklahoma City crime rates and statistics - NeighborhoodScout (http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ok/oklahoma-city/crime/)

Much of the inner city doesn't fair that well, especially compared to NW OKC.

Interesting map... I'd like to see one that seperates violent crime and property crime...

I thought it was interesting that one of the worst areas highlighted is S.W 74th and May. Oklahoma City Community College is on the SW corner of that intersection and although there are some sketchy apartment complexes nearby, I don't think many of us in proximity to that area consider it to be unsafe...

I'm not really afraid of any area of OKC but it was also interesting that when scrolling down that page, OKC is listed as safer than only 4% of cities in the U.S...

Isn't that corner owned by someone named Shadid? If so, is there any family ties with the other Shadid?

Yes, they are closely related.

Are you referring to the Central Business District? Because I have walked by myself through there and it was no big deal. Just a couple of homeless bums, but nothing worse than what you would see in OKC.I will search on Google maps and find out where exactly I was. I've been there twice, late at night and had really bad experiences.

Downtown Houston? What about Northwest Oklahoma City? The subject of this thread! Any volunteers to show how safe the following neighborhoods are?

All you'd need to do is one of the below after dark:

1. Take a walk down 23rd street from Rockwell to Meridian and back.
2. Take a walk down 10th street from Meridian to Council and back.
3. Take a walk down Wilshire Blvd. and go south on Lyrewood Lane to 63rd and back
4. Take a nice Sunday evening stroll down Wilshire, head north on Western and walk to 122nd and back.

Forget walking in downtown Houston after dark. Any takers for the life threatening experiment above?

Try again...

That really could be made into a fun bet though.

The two sides:

1. We'll get robbed/mugged
2. We won't get robbed/mugged

The bet:

Two people take a walk. The person who takes position 1 carries the agreed upon bet amount in their pocket. The person who takes position 2 leaves twice the same amount in the car which is parked in a secure location.

If the 2 are not robbed/mugged, then the money in Better 1's pocket goes to Better 2's. If they are robbed/mugged, person 1 gives double the amount to person 2, half for the reimbursement and half for the won bet.

Try again...

Why the big deal about walking? I based my post on Bluedog's post:
http://www.okctalk.com/ask-anything-about-okc/33138-what-happened-nw-okc-9.html#post695725

I'm just going to say this, if there is one place you should NOT drive around after 10pm, it is downtown Houston. The majority of it dies off after 10-11pm and it gets bad, REAL FAST! Trust me on this one.
You mean derelicts and alcoholics start wondering around asking for your money at stop lights and won't take no for an answer?

Downtown Houston? What about Northwest Oklahoma City? The subject of this thread! Any volunteers to show how safe the following neighborhoods are?

All you'd need to do is one of the below after dark:

1. Take a walk down 23rd street from Rockwell to Meridian and back.
2. Take a walk down 10th street from Meridian to Council and back.
3. Take a walk down Wilshire Blvd. and go south on Lyrewood Lane to 63rd and back
4. Take a nice Sunday evening stroll down Wilshire, head north on Western and walk to 122nd and back.

Forget walking in downtown Houston after dark. Any takers for the life threatening experiment above?

fvC6-_G1fng

Why the big deal about walking? I based my post on Bluedog's post:
http://www.okctalk.com/ask-anything-about-okc/33138-what-happened-nw-okc-9.html#post695725

Bluedog's post was a casual and tertiary reply to something Plu Pan said (and mainly because Plu Pan didn't define what he meant by downtown)

Plu Pan, however, said not to *drive* through downtown houston, and everyone in this thread is talking about the silliness of being afraid to *drive* through an area. It's a whole different ball game if you're talking about walking through rough neighborhoods.

Isn't that corner owned by someone named Shadid? If so, is there any family ties with the other Shadid?

As far as biker bars go, remember the Draught Board somewhere on May across the street from about where Lynn Hickey was?

The former Lamplighter on 10th street is now Margarita Island or somesuch and seems to draw a crowd along with some bikes. They don't look like 1% bikers.

Yes, they are closely related.
There are quite a few of the Shadid family in business in OKC, I lost track of how many there were a long time ago.

I worked at Britton & Broadway for 11 years, about 2 years of that was on a night shift and a lot of other nights spent there when I was working days. Had a friend who grew up at 88th & Classen and as bad as that area can be I never felt "threatened" driving through there to see her or going home when I lived in The Village. Had some friends who lived in the neighborhood behind the Lyrewood apartmentville, while it looks bad I think it's reputation is worse than actuality. Most crime in those areas seems to be among known acquaintances and not just random crime on innocents wandering through.

To some people a place that doesn't look pristine and almost Truman Show-ish is "sketchy", they just need to stay in their suburban bubble if they are that afraid of the rest of the world.

There are quite a few of the Shadid family in business in OKC, I lost track of how many there were a long time ago.

I worked at Britton & Broadway for 11 years, about 2 years of that was on a night shift and a lot of other nights spent there when I was working days. Had a friend who grew up at 88th & Classen and as bad as that area can be I never felt "threatened" driving through there to see her or going home when I lived in The Village. Had some friends who lived in the neighborhood behind the Lyrewood apartmentville, while it looks bad I think it's reputation is worse than actuality. Most crime in those areas seems to be among known acquaintances and not just random crime on innocents wandering through.

To some people a place that doesn't look pristine and almost Truman Show-ish is "sketchy", they just need to stay in their suburban bubble if they are that afraid of the rest of the world.

The crime map linked above also supports that as the safest place to be. I don't think it was suburbanites fearing NW OKC for the most part though.

I regularly drive NW 10th from Council to the urban core, day and night, frequent the businesses along the way and never feel scared. I have on a couple of occasions been in other parts of the city that did scare me, south side, capitol hill mainly. (The only place I've seen a random dead body homicide victim.) But it doesn't scare me driving through and I still go there on business pretty regularly in the daytime. (I haven't had a reason to go there at night.) Things seem to have settled down a bit there too. I quit watching local news some time ago which may have something to do with my perspective.

Some good news for NW OKC - the apartments on Portland between NW23rd and NW36th across from Will Rogers Park are under new ownership. Work has already begun on renovating one of the buildings (probably as a model apartment building to show possible renters). The new exterior is siding but it looks a lot better than the existing buildings. The new name of the complex is Portland Peake.

The crime map linked above also supports that as the safest place to be. I don't think it was suburbanites fearing NW OKC for the most part though.

I regularly drive NW 10th from Council to the urban core, day and night, frequent the businesses along the way and never feel scared. I have on a couple of occasions been in other parts of the city that did scare me, south side, capitol hill mainly. (The only place I've seen a random dead body homicide victim.) But it doesn't scare me driving through and I still go there on business pretty regularly in the daytime. (I haven't had a reason to go there at night.) Things seem to have settled down a bit there too. I quit watching local news some time ago which may have something to do with my perspective.
I grew up close to there (Hilldale area) and my father is involved with the West Tenth neighborhood group as they still live in the same house. I get to see the area whenever I am back in town. The area has definitely changed a lot in the 48 years they have lived there.