We have three people in our office that drive from Guthrie to the state capitol area every day.

Ok, ok. You guys have hammered me enough about my "not many people do that" statement. So you know some people that drive that far? Wouldn't it be cheaper to move closer to your destination? I used to commute north okc to norman, and I ended up moving to Norman because that was the most cost-efficient method of travel.

I agree though as far as building for the future of OKC, but the timing has to be right. Are we expecting such growth in the nearterm that we will need a rail? What happens if we build the rail and we don't see the growth?

Chicago's L is heavy metro subway not light rail. Heavy metro subway uses heavy rail cars on standard gauge tracks typically with 3rd rail electricity for power and completely grade separated underground or above. Chicago's L subway system is one of the oldest in the world and has lines that are both above and below ground. Chicago has no light rail.

You did correctly state that one of Chicago's commuter rail system is Metra. Commuter rail uses heavy rail cars with DMU or Diesel Electric locomotives.

The main difference I know between the systems are:

Subway/Metro Heavy Rail cars Multiple configuration/train lengths Typically 3rd rail power Always completely grade separated Usually below ground in ultra high density, above in less dense. Ultra-high capacity system with frequent stops

Commuter Rail Heavy Rail cars Train made of several pax cars Typically DMU or Diesel electric loco Grade Separated in Freight or dedicated CR track High capacity but not many stops

Light Rail Light Rail cars (hence the name) Usually in pairs of cars Typically overhead catenary power Mix with traffic or grade separated Medium capacity system with frequent stops

Streetcar Light Rail Cars Usually single car or two to make a train Typically overhead catenary power exists within traffic but can have grade separation Low capacity with ultra-frequent stops



OKC will have Streetcar and I am certain Commuter Rail in the near future. I think Light Rail and certainly Subway/Metro are out of the question, period.

i would bet that if the street car and communter rail are any kind of success that we will add a NW lightrail at some point ..

i would bet that if the street car and communter rail are any kind of success that we will add a NW lightrail at some point ..

If you look at other cities where rail has been introduced this is true. Suburbs of Salt Lake City are fighting each other to be connected next. The one exception I can think of is Atlanta. The people here are screaming for it (including voting down road expansions) but none of the suburbs want to connect to downtown Atlanta.

i would bet that if the street car and communter rail are any kind of success that we will add a NW lightrail at some point ..

Possibly but we could probably do a few decades of development with the rail we already have.

Possibly but we could probably do a few decades of development with the rail we already have.

true however a huge OKC voting block lies to the Northwest of downtown and there is no current rail corridor going that direction i would bet that if we form a RTA that a NW line is looked at sooner rather than later

Surprised there is not a thread on this. I looked over the 7 pages and couldn't find a thread dedicated to a light rail for the greater OKC area. Anyways I came across this article from The Edmond Sun(of all places :p ) and thought I'd pass it along.

Group looks at light rail for metro » Local News » The Edmond Sun (http://www.edmondsun.com/local/x964884617/Group-looks-at-light-rail-for-metro)


PluPan, light rail has been discussed hear often but there has never been a thread devoted to just light rail.

Sure there has, it's just been a few years:

http://www.okctalk.com/suburban-other-ok-communities/14268-light-rail-options.html

http://www.okctalk.com/norman/29220-could-okc-metro-garner-ridership-support-lightrail-train-system-3.html

http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic-issues/13174-light-rail-layout-2.html

Surprised there is not a thread on this. I looked over the 7 pages and couldn't find a thread dedicated to a light rail for the greater OKC area. Anyways I came across this article from The Edmond Sun(of all places :p ) and thought I'd pass it along.

Group looks at light rail for metro » Local News » The Edmond Sun (http://www.edmondsun.com/local/x964884617/Group-looks-at-light-rail-for-metro)


If you look at other cities where rail has been introduced this is true. Suburbs of Salt Lake City are fighting each other to be connected next. The one exception I can think of is Atlanta. The people here are screaming for it (including voting down road expansions) but none of the suburbs want to connect to downtown Atlanta.
Is this an extension of MARTA or separate?

Is this an extension of MARTA or separate?

A few years ago Gwinett County voted against expanding MARTA. They were afraid of two things. First, they didn't want people from South Atlanta coming up to rob them, and second, they didn't want people who would rely on mass transit to live in their county. I'm not joking BTW, those were the major opposition points.

Last year metro Atlanta voted down a transportation package because it was front loaded with years of highway construction and commuter rail in the out years. Everyone I heard comment on the subject wanted rail at the beginning but the suburban leadership and GDOT don't want rail at all.

I use to live in Dallas and used the expanding light rail there all the time to go to venues and not drive in that mess. Living deep inside Dallas (south of White Rock Lake), using the light rail was cheaper than finding a parking place downtown for work. In Dallas all the rail traffic was commuters from as far north as Sherman (they had commuter buses that would drop off riders at the farthest north rail station). All of the rail stops had plenty of parking, shopping, and large bus stops to connect to the rail. Buses were extensive and ran at local stops in the city every 10-15 min. on city routes. The light rail went to or near every major venue. There had been years of opposition to it getting built, but once built there was massive demand for it to expand to 'their neighborhood'. Now I live in suburban Atlanta - Alpharetta. Why? My son was born in Dallas, but he is not going to Atlanta public schools (the same would have been true in Dallas) We picked an area based on the schools. I wanted to use Marta, but though it seems similar to Dallas, the resemblence is superficial. Marta buses and rail don't run as extensively or often. Marta stations are dark, isolated (with few exceptions) with no buisness, no police presence and generally univiting. Marta trains are faster. I do use Marta to go downtown for conventions, or to the courts for jury duty - so I don't have to drive Atlanta's traffic - which is far worse than Dallas. The city here is laid out by following old 'cow paths' or 'Indian paths' - no sense at all. In Dallas it was very easy to get around inside the belt line, almost all streets were 6 lanes on a grid. There are a lot of things about Atlanta that is better than Dallas - transportation is not one of them. The Marta expansion failed not because northern subs don't want - they do. It failed because it was paired with Auto projects, and rail did not seek to expand into areas of town that wanted Marta. Since they were not getting it in this proposal, they voted against it. Ironically it was poorer southern neighborhoods that voted against it - they were not getting enough rail expansion. In Dallas one could not own a car and get around with no problem - bus stops everywhere every 15min., not to mention the rail. In Atlanta it would be very hard. Plus, there is a lot more gang violence in urban Atlanta. Georgia Tech students (G-tech is downtown) get assaulted all the time.

Light rail downtown OKC is for tourist. True rail systems go long distance and use bus connections. It is a good start, it will get people familiar with rail. A dedicated line from Norman to Edmond and from Yukon to MWC would work. But an equal investment in buses would be needed. Before any of this can happen, voters have to understand that mass trans does not pay for itself directly, it must be subsidised. It pays as an engine for buisness, replaces the need for more or new highways (which don't pay for themselves) and creates community. No major city in the world does not have effective public transportation.

Best of luck, maybe using Dallas as an example will help. But there seems a major lack public education on the truth of public transport in OKC - ironic since OKC was laid out by light rail systems that had no real competition from cars (yet).

Part 2 of the Edmond Sun's Transit Series is out:

Committee Considers Regional Transit Authority (http://www.edmondsun.com/local/x1633469301/Committee-considers-Regional-Transit-Authority)

Here's the link to Part 1 again:

Group Considers Commuter Rail for Metro (http://www.edmondsun.com/local/x964884617/Group-looks-at-light-rail-for-metro)

Building a commuter rail system between Edmond, Oklahoma City and Norman would cost $200 million to $300 million

So half the price of 4 miles of interstate. I know where they can get $80 million in starter funds.

How do you think the commuter rail will interact with tinker? will there be a stop inside of tinker (probably too risky) or will there be a stop outside of tinker with shuttles, buses or their own rail system that goes into tinker? Tinker is too big and spread for there to be a stop and then just walk to your destination on the far side of tinker.

How do you think the commuter rail will interact with tinker? will there be a stop inside of tinker (probably too risky) or will there be a stop outside of tinker with shuttles, buses or their own rail system that goes into tinker? Tinker is too big and spread for there to be a stop and then just walk to your destination on the far side of tinker.

I've looked at Google Maps myself and I'd say a commuter train would come down the wye and stop there just north of SE 29th St. I think it'd be cool if they turned the old rail bridge over I-40 into a covered pedestrian crosswalk so it would be a quick walk to the base but not so brisk on the worst days of weather. I don't think they'd have an actual commuter train roll through the fences onto the base.

How do you think the commuter rail will interact with tinker? will there be a stop inside of tinker (probably too risky) or will there be a stop outside of tinker with shuttles, buses or their own rail system that goes into tinker? Tinker is too big and spread for there to be a stop and then just walk to your destination on the far side of tinker.

there is already an on base shuttle system on tinker if more people came on base via train i'm sure it would be expanded

Local commuter rail would depend on cooperation of railways » Local News » The Edmond Sun (http://www.edmondsun.com/local/x36427590/Local-commuter-rail-would-depend-on-cooperation-of-railways)

Local commuter rail would depend on cooperation of railways » Local News » The Edmond Sun (http://www.edmondsun.com/local/x36427590/Local-commuter-rail-would-depend-on-cooperation-of-railways)


Good information. Thanks for posting.

Glad to see The Edmond Sun taking interest in this. Next steps on tap for Norman-Edmond rail » Local News » The Edmond Sun (http://www.edmondsun.com/local/x765744720/Next-steps-on-tap-for-Norman-Edmond-rail)

"EDMOND — Community leaders formed a north corridor stakeholders work group meeting Monday to provide local input for the CentralOK!go Study. This study is a collaborative effort of the Regional Transit Dialogue Steering Committee.

The RTD steering committee oversees the $1.25 million “Commuter Rail Corridor Analysis” conducted by URS Corporation for the Association of Central Oklahoma Governments. RTD is specifically looking at commuter rail as the most likely option for the metro and not light rail, the committee pointed out in January.

RTD has discussed three rail corridors that could link to the $120 million modern street car system being constructed with an intermodal hub in downtown Oklahoma City. RTD calls for the hub to link Edmond, Norman, Midwest City and Tinker Air Force Base." - See more at: Commuter rail study on track » Local News » The Edmond Sun (http://www.edmondsun.com/local/x541274367/Commuter-rail-study-on-track)

From the constant stream of news reports from Edmond, they are probably the most active, at least appearing on the surface, of any of the communities in getting this going.

So I was bored and tossed this together. I agree that commuter rail is probably going to be the best option initially, and then back fill light rail in the metro areas. The map I put together uses existing lines on everything, but upgrades and double tracking will likely be needed due to increased traffic on some of them.

Red Line: Downtown > S OKC / Crossroads > Moore > Norman / OU > Noble
Pauls Valley Extension (Pink): Noble > Purcell > Wayne > Paoli > Pauls Valley
Orange Line: Downtown > N OKC / 63rd St > Edmond > Guthrie
Yellow Line: Downtown > W OKC / State Fair > W OKC / Rockwell > Yukon > El Reno
Green Line: Downtown > SW OKC / WRWA > Mustang
Lawton Extension: Mustang > Tuttle > Chickasha > Cyril > Fletcher > Elgin > Fort Sill > Central Lawton > Lawton / Cameron Univ
(Light) Blue Line: Downtown > Central Midwest City / Tinker
Shawnee Extension: Downtown > N Midwest City > Choctaw > Harrah > McLoud > Shawnee

The biggest obstacles right now with the current rail lines are based on where they are coming from. The Yellow line is going to need to swing through the area west of the southern canal area and have a new elevated portion built to go over the new boulevard. The two blue lines are going to need a new elevated area over I-40 to join up with the existing tracks coming into downtown.

Of course we would need station built at many of the stops, but just to get it up and going they can be simple Park and Ride centers. The line to Lawton isn't one I really like. It weaves a lot so the speed for the trains is probably going to be pretty limited in spots. I would probably also clear out at few of the stops between Chickasha and Fort Sill, but figured I would initially toss them in there.

Here is the link to the map if you want to zoom in: https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=216654750154515572193.0004e11f6fca15864a83 f&msa=0&ll=35.108675,-97.509155&spn=0.926825,1.783905

http://www.weatherspotlight.com/screencap/jul13/rail.png

There were talks in the past about building a light rail from OKC to Tulsa. Would that be completely new construction or would it utilize existing lines?

There were talks in the past about building a light rail from OKC to Tulsa. Would that be completely new construction or would it utilize existing lines?

Light rail wouldn't work. A commuter rail option would be better positioned or even just a standard Amtrak level product. Remember, Light Rail is your typical street car / subway system.

I don't know about light rail between OKC and Tulsa, but the Eastern Flyer Task Force was working on establishing conventional passenger rail service using the state owned line that is leased to WATCO/Stillwater Central RR. The primary issue is the last 5-10 miles from Sapulpa to downtown Tulsa - the state owned line ends and some sort of trackage rights arrangement would have to be made with BNSF to get across the Arkansas River and into Tulsa Union station.

The service would be similar to the North Carolina line between Charlotte and Raleigh or Amtrak California's Surfliner. Conventional rail equipment running at relatively frequent intervals. Amtrak California uses one locomotive and a cab car with remote controls at the other end so the entire does not have to turn around to reverse direction. The TRE between Dallas and Fort Worth is another example of a similar service using this type of equipment.

4128

This is why the two bills in the state legislature are so important - one will prevent ODOT from selling the line without any oversight (they are trying to sell it to BNSF now) and gives the current lessee right of first refusal. This is important because WATCO has made significant investment in upgrading the line and is generally agreeable to passenger traffic regardless of operator whereas BNSF will only permit Amtrak to operate on their rights of way. The other bill creates a stand alone State Railway Commission to handle all rail transport and infrastructure issues. ODOT is a highways only organization whether people want to believe it or not and getting the rail branch away from ODOT will greatly increase the chance we will see real progress made on rebuilding and restoring passenger rail transport in Oklahoma.

I have a feeling BNSF is also posturing to be in position to be the one operating the commuter rail on as many lines as possible.

I have a feeling BNSF is also posturing to be in position to be the one operating the commuter rail on as many lines as possible.

If they would commit to running an operation similar to Chicago's Metra, that would be pretty good.

I suspect most regional trains connecting Oklahoma cities will initially be on diesel multi-units (DMU). Lawton to OKC might even just be a single car DMU.

If they would commit to running an operation similar to Chicago's Metra, that would be pretty good.

Yeah. The experience with running portion of the Metra I think is valuable to get the service launched sooner rather than later.


I suspect most regional trains connecting Oklahoma cities will initially be on diesel multi-units (DMU). Lawton to OKC might even just be a single car DMU.

I think it'll come down to acquisition costs and also the requirements set by the FRA to permit them on our freight lines. I think the DMU option though as it'll probably be much more efficient than the Metra-style commuter rail since ridership numbers won't be all that great here. it would also allow for quicker trip times since they should be able to get up to speed a bit easier.

Overall I just hope this something they don't try to punt 10-15 years down the road.

I suspect most regional trains connecting Oklahoma cities will initially be on diesel multi-units (DMU). Lawton to OKC might even just be a single car DMU.

People who are interested in this should take a look at the Denton TX A-Train. It started out using "vintage" rail diesel cars leased from TRE while waiting for delivery of their new Stadler DMU's. These DMU's are pretty slick and would work very well for most of a state regional network.

http://www.metro-magazine.com/images/news/DCTA-train-full.jpg

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs101.snc1/4992_104940344920_93080414920_1853168_4193014_n.jp g


These are the RDC's TRE used and then leased to Denton:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5189/5591320434_faaaccb799.jpg

Yeah. The experience with running portion of the Metra I think is valuable to get the service launched sooner rather than later.

I think it'll come down to acquisition costs and also the requirements set by the FRA to permit them on our freight lines. I think the DMU option though as it'll probably be much more efficient than the Metra-style commuter rail since ridership numbers won't be all that great here. it would also allow for quicker trip times since they should be able to get up to speed a bit easier.

FRA approved the Stadler DMU's to run on line with freight traffic. Railroad Passenger Rail Article - FRA issues alternative-design vehicle waiver to Denton County Transportation Authority. Information For Rail Career Professionals From Progressive Railroading Magazine (http://www.progressiverailroading.com/passenger_rail/article/FRA-issues-alternativedesign-vehicle-waiver-to-Denton-County-Transportation-Authority--31230)

Overall I just hope this something they don't try to punt 10-15 years down the road.

That is ODOT's primary tactic - study and delay. It has worked every time so far. This is one of the primary reasons the Oklahoma Rail Commission bill needs to be approved ASAP. But guess who Gov Fallin is listening to for advice.......letters and phone calls to legislators and the governor's office are needed.

People are working on restoring passenger rail service now:

http://www.ktok.com/media/podcast-ktok-am-podcast-GwinnFaulconerLippert/the-gwin-faulconer-lippert-show-2-23461377/

To build a light rail system between Edmond, Oklahoma City and Norman would cost $2 billion to $3 billion, whereas a commuter rail system would cost only $200-300 million, according to the RTD. - See more at: Commuter rail study on track » Local News » The Edmond Sun (http://www.edmondsun.com/local/x541274367/Commuter-rail-study-on-track#sthash.xSym7oOg.dpuf)

We spent about $200 million just to widen I-35 between Moore and Norman, ALONE.

new article Perryman train study down, not out.

Perryman train study down, not out » Local News » Chickashanews.com (http://chickashanews.com/local/x596949636/Perryman-train-study-down-not-out)

Our local paper is certainly doing no favors to this proposal.

Oklahoma lawmaker's dream of high-speed rail is left at the station | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-lawmakers-dream-of-high-speed-rail-is-left-at-the-station/article/3862872)


Perryman said it would be irresponsible not to study this issue, given the potential benefits to citizens and the state. On the contrary, Shannon did the responsible thing by rejecting this bad idea.

For those who are interested, ACOG is videoing the RTD II meetings and those are being posted to ACOG's YouTube sight. You can view the first two meetings in their entirety, including the OnTrac rail transit presentation from Wednesday, at:

ACOG RTD II Meeting Videos (http://www.youtube.com/user/acogok)

There are several video segments that cover the full meeting.

Why is the budget for Light Rail in Orlando @ $20 mil p/mile ? ...the ACOG numbers are so exaggerated?

Why is the budget for Light Rail in Orlando @ $20 mil p/mile ? ...the ACOG numbers are so exaggerated?

The Orlando trains will be commuter rail, not light rail...similar to whats currently being discussed here from Edmond to Norman.

Florida voters rejected a light rail system from Orlando to Tampa even though the Feds were putting up 2.4 billion dollars towards the cost.

Here is the link for the bugdet for LIGTH RAIL ( this is their regional transit system ; MAGLEV Technology ).

$800M maglev passenger rail back on track? - Orlando Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/print-edition/2012/12/07/800m-maglev-passenger-rail-back-on.html)

The budget they have is aprox. $20 Mil p/mile.

The Orlando trains will be commuter rail, not light rail...similar to whats currently being discussed here from Edmond to Norman.

Florida voters rejected a light rail system from Orlando to Tampa even though the Feds were putting up 2.4 billion dollars towards the cost.

Not so fast my friend... This is not accurate.

Orlando is putting the LIGHT RAIL ( not the large Diesel Engine Commuter Rail ...they call this "commuter rail", but think of it as a Heavy Amtrak Trains).

Houston has the LIGHT RAIL. ....I used it a few weeks ago to get to a convention. A very nice clean system.

Orlando is putting in Commuter Rail. It is called SunRail.

SunRail - A Better Way To Go (http://www.sunrail.com/)

The train from Tampa to Orlando was going to be High Speed Rail (the first true HSR system in the US), but the State was going to be on the hook for cost over-runs, maintenance, and operating expenses. Those were expected to be several times higher than the cost of construction and with no mode of travel at both ends the people riding it wouldn't have any way to get around.

On edit - A private company was looking to put 'slow maglev' from the Orange County Convention Center to the airport but I think that plan is dead now. It had a top speed of 50 mph.

New 'maglev' train may come to Orlando International Airport - FOX 35 News Orlando (http://www.myfoxorlando.com/story/20292265/new-maglev-train-may-come-to-orlando-international-airport)

Light rail wouldn't work. A commuter rail option would be better positioned or even just a standard Amtrak level product. Remember, Light Rail is your typical street car / subway system.

Venture 79... People don't use our existing AMTRAK now ! Are the consumers really saying "please give me my AMTRAK train for my commute"....?? No they are not. This is a typical ( half-way ) getting there. So you are telling me that we should do this "twice" ? ...why should we pay for this 2 times? ...an initial investment, then switch to light rail? ....please help me out and shed some light on that phylosophy. I think I remember Gen. Patton said " he did not belive in paying for real estate twice".

Orlando is putting in Commuter Rail. It is called SunRail.

SunRail - A Better Way To Go (http://www.sunrail.com/)

The train from Tampa to Orlando was going to be High Speed Rail (the first true HSR system in the US), but the State was going to be on the hook for cost over-runs, maintenance, and operating expenses. Those were expected to be several times higher than the cost of construction and with no mode of travel at both ends the people riding it wouldn't have any way to get around.

On edit - A private company was looking to put 'slow maglev' from the Orange County Convention Center to the airport but I think that plan is dead now. It had a top speed of 50 mph.

New 'maglev' train may come to Orlando International Airport - FOX 35 News Orlando (http://www.myfoxorlando.com/story/20292265/new-maglev-train-may-come-to-orlando-international-airport)

JTF... the Orlando ( Orlando / Convention Area / Aiport / Disney ) IS MagLev Technology... they will only travel at speed up to 50 mph. (yes, they are faster than that, but that is not what Orlando wants this line to provide in this layout). ...and yes, it is Back In Play for implementation.

People do use Amtrak and they run commuter service in multiple cities around the US, however, OKC is not looking for Amtrak to run the system ACOG is working on.

JTF... the Orlando ( Orlando / Convention Area / Aiport / Disney ) IS MagLev Technology... they will only travel at speed up to 50 mph. (yes, they are faster than that, but that is not what Orlando wants this line to provide in this layout). ...and yes, it is Back In Play for implementation.

If a private company wants to build it more power to them.

Yeah. The experience with running portion of the Metra I think is valuable to get the service launched sooner rather than later.



I think it'll come down to acquisition costs and also the requirements set by the FRA to permit them on our freight lines. I think the DMU option though as it'll probably be much more efficient than the Metra-style commuter rail since ridership numbers won't be all that great here. it would also allow for quicker trip times since they should be able to get up to speed a bit easier.

Overall I just hope this something they don't try to punt 10-15 years down the road.

The one thing that the ACOG is NOT telling you, is that if they started Today - They are looking at 10 years before the first Big Diesel Train is on the track. This is a Commuter Rail ( They use this phrase to seperate it from the standard Freight Rail. This means OKC Metro ACOG is planning on spending millions of dollars, using old / out dated technology AMTRAK TRAINS, and then open for business 10 years from now? ....this is what they say will work?

By that time, Texas will have other LIGHT RAIL in place, and OKC will be behind....again.

The advantage to using heavy commuter rail is that you can share the route with, for instance, the Santa Fe. Commuter rail could run from, for example, 6 am to midnight and then the line could be used by the Santa Fe through the night. They might be willing to trade some of their right of way for this. That might be the cheapest way to get rails in the ground, and I don't think light rail has enough advantages over heavy rail to not have either as an option and go with the most practical and cost-effective.

They use of Amtrak trains for commuter rail in the northern cities, rust belt cities. They are already accustomed to using the trains. Southern Cities / West Coast Cities are not using the AMTRAK trains for commmute. Houston Texas is using LIght Rail now, and expanding it.

JTF ...what type of Engine is the ACOG moving forward with? .... the Large Diesel Engine AMTRAK Type...yes.

The presentations I viewed were of this type ( that is what M. Hutch was recommending & they accepted). They call it "commuter rail", but that is just a phrase to make it sound light.

Commuter rail is rail for commuters. I'm not sure of the advantages of light rail versus heavy. I think which type we use depends on practicality and cost.

The advantage to using heavy commuter rail is that you can share the route with, for instance, the Santa Fe. Commuter rail could run from, for example, 6 am to midnight and then the line could be used by the Santa Fe through the night. They might be willing to trade some of their right of way for this. That might be the cheapest way to get rails in the ground, and I don't think light rail has enough advantages over heavy rail to not have either as an option and go with the most practical and cost-effective.

If we have to wait 10 years before they are "open for business", then why would consumers want just the "cheapest"? Consumers are not asking for cheap. Cost Effective, then why woudld you pay for this twice? ...Heavy rail for 10 - 20 years, then phasing in the light rail and having to budget "again", for that? ...cheap is an answer, but not the BEST answer.

Why don't OKIE people, me included, use AMTRAK now? ...please answer that. This is cheap now, and we don't use it. Too many stops, takes 4 hours to get to Dallas now.

The advantage is the same argument that we had at the beginnng of MAPS in 92'. Going "cheap" is not the way to attract people. But, if you offer them a superior product, they will support it.

I think it has more to do with there only being one return trip that leaves Fort Worth after 5 and gets into OKC after 9.

JTF ...what type of Engine is the ACOG moving forward with? .... the Large Diesel Engine AMTRAK Type...yes.

Modern commuter rail engines burn diesel, but they do it to generate electricity which powers the electric motor - which in turn moves the train.

Modern commuter rail engines burn diesel, but they do it to generate electricity which powers the electric motor - which in turn moves the train.

you could have just said yes. lol.

Yes, it is the Diesel Engine. They are offering this because AMTRAK already has these "in-stock". ??? Old technology is ALWAYS in stock, like buggy whips.

I think it has more to do with there only being one return trip that leaves Fort Worth after 5 and gets into OKC after 9.

So what you are saying is "if we had more Diesel engines running up & down the tracks from To Dallas / Back home, then ridership would increase"? ...It would still be 4 hours to get to Dallas and 4 hours to get back to OKC? .... I can drive it in 3 hours, and still stop at In-n-Out burger and get a Double Double.

Really, why don't we just "fall in love" with AMTRAK ? ...please answer that one.

you could have just said yes. lol.

Yes, it is the Diesel Engine. They are offering this because AMTRAK already has these "in-stock". ??? Old technology is ALWAYS in stock, like buggy whips.

Where do you think the electricity is coming from to power maglev? Here in central Florida we have a coal fire power plant that heats water into a steam, which turns a steam turbine, to produce electricity. New technology indeed.

Quick question - who besides OKvision4U thinks Amtrak will be involved in anyway with commuter rail in OKC?

The one thing that the ACOG is NOT telling you, is that if they started Today - They are looking at 10 years before the first Big Diesel Train is on the track. This is a Commuter Rail ( They use this phrase to seperate it from the standard Freight Rail. This means OKC Metro ACOG is planning on spending millions of dollars, using old / out dated technology AMTRAK TRAINS, and then open for business 10 years from now? ....this is what they say will work?

By that time, Texas will have other LIGHT RAIL in place, and OKC will be behind....again.


this is not a true .

just fyi http://www.bombardier.com/en/transportation/products-services/rail-vehicles/commuter-and-regional-trains/diesel-multiple-units.html

this is not a true .

just fyi Diesel Multiple Units - Regional Trains - Bombardier Transportation (http://www.bombardier.com/en/transportation/products-services/rail-vehicles/commuter-and-regional-trains/diesel-multiple-units.html)

...what part? ...please clarify.

The 10 year plan before trains run... yes, that is true ( ACOG presentation timeline ). Buying Big Diesel Engines to pull it , yes that is. ( ACOG Presentation ; Jan 2013 , M. Hutchison). Using exsiting Heavy Rail lines.... Yes, that is true. Spending Millions of dollars and using outdated technology? ... You can dress it up how you like to, but it's still a dog.

Just putting in my already stated opinion. I would prefer a light-rail built asap. If a 1.2 billion dollar proposal to build a light-rail here in metro, I'd support it, as long as the routes made sense.

After MAPS 3, I would be shy about supporting that expensive of a project without the route being proposed first. Pay for the study upfront, then let us know what/where we are voting on. I think that was a major weakness with this project and very nearly created a problem for the whole MAPS brand. I hope that's not something that is repeated.That is what I mean. As long as we had a strategic route made by professionals and city planners, not structural engineers, I would support it.

Quick question - who besides OKvision4U thinks Amtrak will be involved in anyway with commuter rail in OKC?

I'm still trying to figure out why this guy is going back 2-3 months to pull things to quote and respond to when the conversation has already progressed well beyond those statements.

I'm still trying to figure out why this guy is going back 2-3 months to pull things to quote and respond to when the conversation has already progressed well beyond those statements.I'm trying to decide wether or not we have a possible troll. . . He has made some few great posts and I agree with him on the light-rail. The part about him recommending financial responsibility to another poster back in the StreetCar thread has me wondering.

So what you are saying is "if we had more Diesel engines running up & down the tracks from To Dallas / Back home, then ridership would increase"? ...It would still be 4 hours to get to Dallas and 4 hours to get back to OKC? .... I can drive it in 3 hours, and still stop at In-n-Out burger and get a Double Double.

Really, why don't we just "fall in love" with AMTRAK ? ...please answer that one.

Theoretically if you bump OKC - Fort Worth up to 4 daily trains you are going to eliminate the stops on most of them. At that point you are looking at making it a commute option between the two cities. So lets say you have the last stop in Norman and the train runs nonstop until Gainesville or even just Fort Worth for that matter. You are cutting out a lot of down time.

The biggest hole though in the network is connecting it north to Kansas so you can get to the Midwest.