Someone rather well respected wrote a while back (perhaps in this very thread) that one of the key metrics used to evaluate the potential for a successful major sports organization in a given location is the community's capacity for corporate support of the team. They referenced a detailed study of The OKC market that indicated that the Thunder absorb about 80% of the market's corporate support capacity and I tend to believe that, given advertising and sponsorship I see on TV. If that's anywhere near true, we won't see NFL here for quite some time unless there is a massive corporate relocation from out of town.

Someone rather well respected wrote a while back (perhaps in this very thread) that one of the key metrics used to evaluate the potential for a successful major sports organization in a given location is the community's capacity for corporate support of the team. They referenced a detailed study of The OKC market that indicated that the Thunder absorb about 80% of the market's corporate support capacity and I tend to believe that, given advertising and sponsorship I see on TV. If that's anywhere near true, we won't see NFL here for quite some time unless there is a massive corporate relocation from out of town.

Hockey is a good example of this. Corporate sponsorship left and went to the NBA when the Thunder came to town.

Hockey is a good example of this. Corporate sponsorship left and went to the NBA when the Thunder came to town.

Hockey is a good example?

Barons arrived in 2010-11 with a half stepping organization. Which hockey team and what sponsorships? You're not referring to the CHL AA Blazers?

Blazers had sponsors on the level of Walker Stamp, Chuck House Steaks, Express Personnel (legit large corporation) etc...

No local TV contracts for hockey on the AHL or CHL level. The old CHL (post 1990s) is now history. Tulsa & Wichita are now in a new league.

Regardless, OKC is a weak TV market, and in addition has a relatively small corporate sponsorship base that is not very diversified. Add in the fact that the NFL would be competing with OU for football entertainment dollars and it is obvious that other markets like LA and SA are more attractive.

I know LA always gets brought up by the "pundits" on ESPN but I just don't think an NFL team in LA is a must. Yeah, LA has a huge TV market, but what does that matter if no one there cares? LA has always been apathetic about football. I would say that they're at least a good basketball town, but last season everyone jumped off the Laker bandwagon and got on the Clippers bandwagon. Out there, it's about being seen. And with no Koby and a bad season, the Lakers weren't getting that much TV time and not many highlights on ESPN.

To me, SA makes a whole lot more sense for an NFL team than LA. They strike me as a city like Cleveland or Washington who shows up and roots for their team whether they're contenders or not.

To me, SA makes a whole lot more sense for an NFL team than LA. They strike me as a city like Cleveland or Washington who shows up and roots for their team whether they're contenders or not.

I've often heard that SA is really what the NFL wants as a stepping stone into Mexico City. The logistics of that doesn't quite ring true to me, but I've also never investigated it.

Remember when we built the downtown arena (The Peake). Doubters said that we couldn't support the NHL. We exceeded expectations with the NBA.

Now, let's build that foundation of a stadium (start with a MAPS IV private/public partnership, 20,000-seat riverfront stadium) which could some day be a catalyst to bring in other options for sports.

"Remember when Bobby Boucher showed up at half time and the Mud Dogs won the Bourbon Bowl"! :D

SA will not be getting an NFL team any time soon. The Cowboys and Texans claim that territory and will fight against it. La will not support an NFL team over the long haul. If the team is winning they will come out but when the team starts losing they will run away as fast as possible. La is a transient city and most people that live there are fans of other teams. Football fans are a pretty loyal bunch and most fans will stick with the team they have been rooting for. If they do build a stadium in La they will get a team and watch and see how it goes. The NFL will have to do everything in their power to make sure it's a winning team and I don't like that.

NFL is a different animal--it would take more than just OKC's corporate support; it would take the whole state. NFL draws from a 150-200 mile radius. An OKC scenario would include Tulsa, Wichita, Fort Smith, Lawton, Wichita Fall etc., NFL will pull a lot of in and out-of-state sponsorships; not just the concern you would have about OKC's corporate base.

Do we underestimate our potential? We're the 42nd largest metropolitan area, yet we possess one of 30 NBA teams. Count Los Angeles and New York/Brooklyn as having two teams each we're fortunate to be among 28 cities. Nobody told us we had to stand in line and wait on Louisville, Anaheim, Norfolk-Virginia Beach, Kansas City or St. Louis to obtain an NBA franchise before we could secure one...

NFL looks at three key elements: Ownership, Facilities & Market. If Los Angeles & San Antonio want NFL teams, go for it--Oklahoma City is a 'can do city' and when & if the opportunity arises--we're not going to step aside and say, 'May I, because we feel other cities are more worthy' Let's flush that myth!

The potential future is post 2020, it would be a lot less expensive to plan ahead for let's say if we were to start with a venue on the level of the MLS (30,000-seat stadium); with the capacity to expand to 65,000-70,000 seats. You're not going to see another Big League sports franchise in OKC anytime soon; especially if you don't plan for the future.

Oklahoma Memorial Stadium could be used as a temporary home (not permanent) if OKC had a plans to build an NFL ready stadium--granted it won't be cheap. You're looking at a minimum of $500 million (w/o bells & whistles) for starters.


Smaller communities like Charlotte, Nashville & Jacksonville didn't say may I to Houston, Los Angeles & St. Louis:

Last five NFL expansion/relocation teams: Houston Texans 2002, Cleveland Browns 1999, Baltimore Ravens 1996, Carolina Panthers 1995 and Jacksonville Jaguars 1995.

Oklahomans love their football. In 1990 it was estimated that there were somewhere in the neighborhood of 4,000-5,000 Cowboy season ticket holders who resided north of the Red River who attended NFL games in the Metroplex.

While I do not know with any certainty, my guess is OU would not allow the NFL to use that stadium on a temporary basis. When the USFL/Oklahoma Outlaws were in business, they proposed using the stadium and paying rent. Keep in mind that the USFL was a spring-summer league at the time and the stadium was not being used for anything at that time of year. The regents would not allow it. You really think that OU would entertain for one moment to help a potential rival establish a foothold here and have to deal with the scheduling nightmares, as well as losing potential revenue ? Not a chance.

The Tennessee Titans played a whole year of games in the Memphis Tigers stadium.

What the residents felt the last time a pro team wanted to use the stadium.
Stadium Neighbors Wary of Lease | News OK (http://newsok.com/stadium-neighbors-wary-of-lease/article/2077577)

While I do not know with any certainty, my guess is OU would not allow the NFL to use that stadium on a temporary basis. When the USFL/Oklahoma Outlaws were in business, they proposed using the stadium and paying rent. Keep in mind that the USFL was a spring-summer league at the time and the stadium was not being used for anything at that time of year. The regents would not allow it. You really think that OU would entertain for one moment to help a potential rival establish a foothold here and have to deal with the scheduling nightmares, as well as losing potential revenue ? Not a chance.

I disagree:

NFL's Arizona Cardinals used Sun Devil Stadium in Tempe (just outside Phoenix) for five or six years before they moved to Glendale.

OU offered the Outlaws a lease that would not have made it profitable for the USFL team to be survive. They wanted a big percentage of concessions and so forth... They stated that had OKC had concrete plans to build a stadium, they would have been for a lease; they didn't want to get stuck with a USFL franchise on their turf. I'll try to find the article. Dr. William S. Banowsky was president of OU during that period.

Stadium Neighbors Wary of Lease | News OK (http://newsok.com/stadium-neighbors-wary-of-lease/article/2077577)

Study Sought On City Dome | News OK (http://newsok.com/study-sought-on-city-dome/article/2074333)

Outlaws' Situation Upsets USFL's Simmons | News OK (http://newsok.com/outlaws-situation-upsets-usfls-simmons/article/2074699)

Lease Draft Due Regents Oklahoman Published: August 2, 1984

Lease Draft Due Regents | News OK (http://newsok.com/lease-draft-due-regents/article/2076765)


The regents last month ordered Ward and Tatham to get together on a proposed lease for presentation to the regents. That action temporarily set aside a Tatham proposal to lease Memorial Stadium for three years for about $325,000 a year.

OU Reviewing Lease Proposal | News OK (http://newsok.com/ou-reviewing-lease-proposal/article/2077049)


Cook said that plans to build a new arena to host the National Finals Rodeo could be expanded to make Oklahoma City an attractive site for a professional sports franchise.

"I feel reasonably certain we're going to have to build a stadium to keep the National Finals Rodeo here," Cook said.

City Being Courteous to Tatham | News OK (http://newsok.com/city-being-courteous-to-tatham/article/2072382)

Stadium Neighbors Wary of Lease | News OK (http://newsok.com/stadium-neighbors-wary-of-lease/article/2077577)
Regent Tom McCurdy of Purcell said he has heard from 100 to 150 people about the Outlaws proposal, saying it was the biggest response he has received to any issue that has been before the regents.

About eight out of 10 people who contact McCurdy are against the proposal, he said.

"They would like to keep the presence of the campus atmosphere," he said. Even an Oklahoma City hotel manager who could benefit financially from the team was against the idea of a professional team playing on Owen Field, he said.

Again this was a team whose schedule was not in direct competition with OU due to different seasons. OU is not going to allow a competitor set up shop in their house.

Money seems to matter to athletic departments more now than it did 30+ years ago in the days before the OU/Georgia TV lawsuit. News stories from 30 years ago have no bearing on today. Athletic departments weren't focused on wringing every possible dime out of anything and everything. They really didn't have anything in the stadium other than football and graduations back then and the US Olympic Festival. Rocklahoma was done to help pay for new Astroturf but it wasn't until the Stones played there when Owens was AD that they actually had a concert just for the money.

Not in the legal sense, but as Al Davis learned, owners that try to move without the league's blessing don't get very far. He could move in name, but the league gave him the cold shoulder. He was forced to move back and tried to sue them again, losing pretty significantly. That's why the league can put restrictions and conditions on a team moving to LA now, because moving without the league is a poor prospect.

And while it's true that, before taxes and other obligations, most franchises do earn money (there's usually at least one exception every year), they don't typically earn money for the city/state, just the people who run the franchises. That's why there was a backlash in Seattle against building a new arena for the Sonics that wasn't at least half-funded by the owners, cities usually lose money on sports franchises. City's agree to bear some of the costs of building stadiums because they view it as valuable amenities, not because it benefits the bottom line for anyone other than the owners (and even then, it may not be enough to recoup the investment costs). If the state at large had to put up 600 million to build an NFL stadium, it'd be a pretty bad investment even if we could make a team of billionaires materialize out of thin air to buy a franchise.

Jersey Boss and I know this isn't going to happen. It gets kinda boring because we don't attract a lot of posters on the Sports section of the OKCTalk forum; it gets stale after college football season. Activity should pick up as we approach the bowl season.

We know the state or city wouldn't spend a ton of money to build an NFL stadium; those things will be out-of-reach for many cities. We can't get the state to fulfill their promise ($40 million) to complete construction of the American Indian museum on the south banks of the Oklahoma River.

We did get the conversation stimulated where we attracted some more posters to this section; thanks for your research, Jersey Boss!

The Cotton seed place with all the metal buildings would be a perfect site for an NFL stadium. Get that land and build one and bring in a deep pocketed potential owner like Harold Hamm and a few of his ultra rich buddies and your all set. Plan for this to happen in 2022-2025. Build a retractable roof stadium so you can have a shot at final 4s and other events.

STL will be unveiling a new downtown stadium for the rams to play in within the next month. I hear it will be a downtown riverfront stadium with some big national sponsors like Enterprise Rental and ABInbev and others. Prob gonna cost somewhere in the billion dollar range. If OKC could do something like this you might be able to get a franchise like Oakland that doesn't really have a home at this time. The NFL came out today saying that no NFL team will be playing in LA in 2015. LA refuses to build a stadium. Cities that build stadiums and have enough corporate support can entice an owner like Davis or the Owner in Jax that will prob be looking to move after 2020. It can happen in OKC if the right people want it to happen. The city is growing faster than many other cities in the US and with a metro pop around 1.5 mil. it starts looking attractive.

OKC just needs to concentrate on putting all efforts towards supporting the Thunder and be thankful to the person who made it happen- Howard Shultz. It's a fluke we have a team, not anything particularly special about the place.

OKC just needs to concentrate on putting all efforts towards supporting the Thunder and be thankful to the person who made it happen- Howard Shultz. It's a fluke we have a team, not anything particularly special about the place.

Hey, we have the Thunder and Bricktown.........
We are truly a big league city{just ask Mick}.

OKC just needs to concentrate on putting all efforts towards supporting the Thunder and be thankful to the person who made it happen- Howard Shultz. It's a fluke we have a team, not anything particularly special about the place.

We have two things to thank for the Thunder being here;
1. The voters of Oklahoma City, who voted to build an arena, even though there was no promise of a major tenant.
2. Howard Schultz, who COULDN'T get an arena built in Seattle, for being stupid enough to sell his team to four guys from Oklahoma City who already HAD an arena built.

3. The apathetic general populace of Seattle, who also had public-facility tax fatigue, and who forced a referendum which required proposed public sports facilities to turn a profit for taxpayers, making it incredibly difficult for public officials to play ball with team owners. By the way, there are TONS of sports fans in Seattle, but their general loyalties/excitement at the time revolved around the Mariners and Seahawks, who it should be pointed out were enjoying new facilities and the associated bumps in interest and attendance. It's also notable that a separately large percentage of the populace also couldn't give a hoot about sports.

4. The cultural arrogance which extended through the Seattle public and elected officials, who thought the whole moving thing was a bluff and that there was NO FREAKING WAY a team/league would abandon a world-class city (Seattle IS a world-class city, lest there be any debate) in favor of what they ASSUMED was a poor, dusty cowtown with a bunch of trailer-living hicks who couldn't afford NBA prices. All while completely ignoring the hidden economic advantages a team enjoys in a one-sport market, even a less-populous, less-affluent one. A side story of this cultural arrogance issue is the incredibly unfriendly Key Arena lease (unintended; it started out friendly), which Seattle officials refused to renegotiate and which gave the team crippling annual losses.

5. Hurricane Katrina, the unfortunate act of God whose coincidental consequence was an opportunity for OKC to demonstrate its capability as a market, its corporate community resolve, and the passion of its sports fans.

6. A dogged and determined OKC mayor who tilted at sports windmills, developing rapport with a league commissioner who liked to play hardball with cities who he felt didn't provide adequate financial/arena support for his team owners AND who had a stated passion for developing small markets.

7. An ownership group with surprising NBA and major league experience, lots of financial resources, and a resolve to take their hometown to the next tier of cities, and some of whom also felt locating major league sports would make business and corporate employee recruitment easier for them in a city where such recruitment was notoriously difficult.

And, for the record, Seattle Supersonics fans were NOT bad fans (in fact quite the opposite), and only stopped coming out when they started feeling like jerked-around pawns being forced to watch terrible basketball for their trouble and expense. Sonics fans were actually great fans (and there were plenty of them); they were just outnumbered by apathetic and/or tax/sports hostile neighbors.

Mark it down: the day Seattle has a good arena and an NBA team again (which will happen) Sonics fans will pack the house, like they did for decades.

It truly was an amazing sequence events that led to the arrival of the Thunder. If any one of those things didn't happen we would still be without a major league franchise of any kind. Anyone who tells the relocation story and who leaves out the points listed above has either an incomplete understanding of what happened OR has an agenda.

8. For George Shinn not being smart enough to sell the Hornets to Clay Bennett, et.al. when they tried, before he went bankrupt and the league had to take over his team. We would definitely have been watching the OKC Hornets. All things being equal I'm glad that didn't happen.

We have two things to thank for the Thunder being here;
1. The voters of Oklahoma City, who voted to build an arena, even though there was no promise of a major tenant.
2. Howard Schultz, who COULDN'T get an arena built in Seattle, for being stupid enough to sell his team to four guys from Oklahoma City who already HAD an arena built.

The owner prior to Schultz also tried and failed to get a new arena built too for years, either the MLB or NFL was built on land he had acquired to try to get a new stadium built on, when that failed he took some tax money from Seattle to upgrade the existing arena. That ended up being problematic for the future owners since they ended up with a building that was loosing them a small fortune per year and that five to ten years prior (depending on which point Schultz was still asking) Seattle had just dumped half the price of some new NBA arenas on renovations

There was nothing wrong with the attendance figures in Seattle. There just wasn't enough amenities in Key Arena (excellent basketball arena) to make it profitable to function as an NBA venue.

Urbanized summed it up with concerns that Seattle voters where overwhelmed with the tab they were given to cover all of the 'second-to-none' facilities to pay to keep the NFL & MLB viable in the Emerald City.

Hands down the absolute worst thing that can happen to OKC would be an NFL team. Jacksonville is the poster child for how an NFL team can suck a cities resources (both public and private) dry. Let me give you an example.

Here is Shahid khan, owner of the Jacksonville Jaguars:
http://ceo.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/KHAN.jpg

Here is his yacht docked on the Jacksonville waterfront:
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/storyimages/31445.JPG

Here are the video boards and swimming pools he said were necessary to make the Jags a profitable team and wanted the City to pay for (cost $63 million):
http://prod.static.jaguars.clubs.nfl.com/assets/images/imported/JAC/photos/2014-Centerpieces/03-Mar/20140310-release.jpg

This is the Laura Street Trio and The Shipyards - two projects Shadid said he would fund while the city mauled over his request for $63 million in renovations to Everbank Field
http://www.floridatrust.org/images/80.jpg
http://www.news4jax.com/image/view/-/27210860/medRes/1/-/maxh/300/maxw/400/-/b3thtiz/-/Jacksonville-shipyards.jpg

This story is a about library closures while the City mauled Shadid's request for $63 million.
Group Protests City Plan to Cut Library Hours, Staff | News | Avondale - Riverside News (http://avondaleriverside.firstcoastnews.com/news/news/60591-group-protests-city-plan-cut-library-hours-staff)

In the end the City agreed to Shadid's request, libraries were closed, hours cut, staff position cut, and additional branch libraries put on notice for future closings. Shadid backed out of his plans for the Laura Street Trio and the Shipyards. The video boards and swimming pools are completed and the Jags are 3-12. The new soccer team in town is having trouble raising the money for the new stadium and the City of Jacksonville is way under-funded in their pension fund. All of this despite the billion dollars the City has spent on the Jags since they arrived. At what point is the NFL investment going to pay off for Jacksonville? Answer - never, because the NFL isn't about 'City Building'.

This is the Jaguars attendance:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/jagsattendance.jpg

I'd rather the city focus on supporting the Thunder and maybe an MLS team. OKC simply isn't big enough for an NFL team.

Why is this even a thread?

LA
San Antonio
London
Mexico City

Those are markets that will get NFL teams first. The NFL has also achieved perfect balance at 32 teams so they probably won't expand anytime soon.

There's also a guy named Jerry Jones would be pretty adamant in his opposition towards a team in Oklahoma.

St. Louis: Edward Jones Dome, capacity 66,000.

The Edward Jones Dome was built 19 years ago at a cost of $280 million ($433 million in 2014 dollars). The NFL Rams' organization already want a new facility. There are similar concerns in Oakland and San Diego.

The San Antonio Alamodome built in 1993 is comparably as inadequate as the dome in St. Louis as a long-term option for an NFL franchise.

So, is this how it works(?): "You can catch the devil, but you can't hold him long?..."


Rishe said the Dome is considered one of the worst stadiums in the country...

"My sense is that if the Rams were to move to Los Angeles, their value would, currently estimated by Forbes to be slightly above $900 million, would easily double and that's something that cannot be lost on Rams owner Stan Kroenke...

...He said a new stadium could keep the Rams in St. Louis, but he says it would take an investment by the city, county and state of more than $700 million. Governor Nixon said he's talking to Kroenke.

Sports analyst: St. Louis Rams could leave for LA (http://www.ksdk.com/story/sports/nfl/rams/2014/09/08/patrick-rishe-st-louis-rams-back-to-los-angeles/15312895/)

Seriously, I truly doubt if you will ever see the NFL in Oklahoma City; unless one drops from the 2025-30 sky--much like the NBA Thunder.

The demands to keep & maintain an NFL franchise are 'unbelievable.' They can hold a city hostage; psychologically molest them in the process if they want to keep the NFL brand with a 20-22 year cycle call for a new stadium demand...

Hands down the absolute worst thing that can happen to OKC would be an NFL team. Jacksonville is the poster child for how an NFL team can suck a cities resources (both public and private) dry. Let me give you an example.

Here is Shahid khan, owner of the Jacksonville Jaguars:
http://ceo.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/KHAN.jpg
He looks like a vampire, Kerry. ;)

The NFL is like a luxury car. Despite what the car commercials say it isn't going to get you a better job, a bigger house, lead to more sex, or make your wallet fatter - it is simply going to be a luxury item with a higher cost of ownership that you can 'afford' AFTER you have already made it. People who buy luxury cars before they can afford a luxury car will find themselves in Jacksonville's position - unable to pay for the necessities because the 'wants' never stop wanting.

The NFL is like a luxury car. Despite what the car commercials say it isn't going to get you a better job, a bigger house, lead to more sex, or make your wallet fatter - it is simply going to be a luxury item with a higher cost of ownership that you can 'afford' AFTER you have already made it. People who buy luxury cars before they can afford a luxury car will find themselves in Jacksonville's position - unable to pay for the necessities because the 'wants' never stop wanting.
And it's not just the NFL. I have been reading about Bridgeview, IL. It's has one of the highest debt ratios of any Chicago suburb, and apparently they are having to borrow $27 million more to try and take care of the struggling Toyota Park stadium , where the MLS Chicago Fire play. This latest round of borrowing will put Bridgeview taxpayers at greater risk of funding an even bigger bailout of the city-owned stadium if it continues to suck money. Originally in 2006, Bridgeview borrowed $100 million to build a new stadium for the Chicago Fire, with the expectation that it would pay it off from stadium revenues. BUT, they were apparently so excited to get a team that they signed over all soccer revenues would go to the team, leaving the city with only money from concerts and the like, which haven’t been enough to pay off $100 million in debt. So now Bridgeview keeps borrowing more money to pay off the existing loans.

And this about the Philadelphia Union's new stadium:
Four years ago, former social-sciences professor John Linder questioned why promoters wanted to “bring soccer to a basketball town.” As mayor since January, he’s been trying to make the $122 million PPL Park, financed mostly with county and state funds, generate enough money to meet the city’s costs.
Linder may levy parking and amusement fees on mostly out-of-town fans. He also wants Major League Soccer’s Philadelphia Union to make a $500,000 payment in lieu of taxes that it missed in 2010. The team says it’s negotiating the fee.

New soccer stadium somehow fails to rain riches on Philly suburb | Field of Schemes (http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2012/06/25/3478/new-soccer-stadium-somehow-fails-to-rain-riches-on-philly-suburb/)

In Chester, 15 miles (24 kilometers) south of Philadelphia, public funds covered about 71 percent of the cost of the stadium for the Union, which is in ninth place in the league’s 10-team Eastern Conference. Related residential projects and a convention center haven’t been built, leaving the city of 34,000 in a program for distressed communities that it entered in 1995. Chester’s poverty rate is almost triple the state average.

Probably a common story, I had heard some good arguments that Hamilton County's (Cincinnati's) replacement of their old Multi-use stadium, for sport specific NFL & MLB stadiums has been overall the worst economic impact in all of sports on a community. Though I also remember some stories about minor league stadiums that were build and the team move within a couple years that while a smaller loss might actually be a worse return on investment per tax dollar spent.

Now we know why so many cities are envious of the OKC MAPS way of financing (Pay as you go). If our city were to build a stadium, it would be on a pay-as-you go (collect sales taxes) system.

What would this produce? 'A debt-free facility.'


1. Bricktown Ballpark was built thru MAPS I
2. Civic Center Music Hall was renovated thru MAPS I
3. Chesapeake Energy Arena was built thru MAPS I; upgraded to NBA standards thru MAPS for HOOPS.
4. Oklahoma City Schools: Built a number of new schools while renovation of all OCPS schools thru MAPS for KIDS.
5. Taft & Speegle Stadium were reconstructed thru leftover funds from a Bond issue & MAPS for KIDS.
6. Oklahoma City Zoo has enjoyed $12.5 million annual funds from a 'permanent' sales tax to build a number of new exhibits.
7. MAPS III: In progress...


Major League Soccer (MLS) may be a more viable option for Oklahoma City than most cities; it wouldn't be as costly as 'breast feeding' an NFL 'vampire' franchise, that would 'nibble' (a pun intended) at your city and corporate resources.

Kerry is exactly right. The NFL is fine when you've got the money for it. If your city can afford it, it's a very nice luxury. If you're straining to make the payments, it can cripple you.

Let's look at it again around 2030. We should start thinking about building a stadium with MAPS 5 or 6. Add another half million people to the metro area, get 3 or 4 more Fortune 500 companies in the city first. Right now let's enjoy the Thunder. They have the potential to win some NBA championships, and that's incredibly impressive.

I really believe OKC is currently a one sport city. I think if something else came to town, one of them would fail and leave. I would say this would be worth revisiting when the metro area has 1.7 million or more people living in it, which most lilely will be the 2030 or 2040 census.

I really believe OKC is currently a one sport city. I think if something else came to town, one of them would fail and leave. I would say this would be worth revisiting when the metro area has 1.7 million or more people living in it, which most lilely will be the 2030 or 2040 census.


Yes we heard all that before. They all said that OKC couldn't support NHL or NBA. We heard it right up to the time when the Hornets came to town. I think now that OKC metro is approaching 1.5 mil that it's time to start planning. Like I said before. OKC should have another major franchise somewhere around 2023. I didn't say build a stadium today. I said start planning for it.

Yes we heard all that before. They all said that OKC couldn't support NHL or NBA. We heard it right up to the time when the Hornets came to town. I think now that OKC metro is approaching 1.5 mil that it's time to start planning. Like I said before. OKC should have another major franchise somewhere around 2023. I didn't say build a stadium today. I said start planning for it.

Eventually "they" will be right.

Yes we heard all that before. They all said that OKC couldn't support NHL or NBA. We heard it right up to the time when the Hornets came to town. I think now that OKC metro is approaching 1.5 mil that it's time to start planning. Like I said before. OKC should have another major franchise somewhere around 2023. I didn't say build a stadium today. I said start planning for it.
Then plan for MLS because the NFL just isn't going to happen. The league is very focused on getting a team to LA and international growth.

NFL will not happen in the next 30 years in Oklahoma. They are smart enough to know that the market can't support it, along with the fact the local university football programs don't want it either.
Look what the NBA did to OU & OSU basketball programs. Those schools can't give tickets away.

One more time - It ain't gonna happen.

NFL will not happen in the next 30 years in Oklahoma. They are smart enough to know that the market can't support it, along with the fact the local university football programs don't want it either.
Look what the NBA did to OU & OSU basketball programs. Those schools can't give tickets away.

One more time - It ain't gonna happen.

I do not follow OSU's attendance but OU's has unsurprisingly risen and fallen with how they do on court and I know at least a few years OSU had some struggles on court as well and at least one point was changing significantly more than OU for the lower quality seats (possibly related to having more recently completed a stadium upgrade). The OU Men's team went from competitive for a national championship before the thunder came, completely collapsed performance wise around the time the NBA came (with strings of losing players and long stretches without wins) and have started trending up since. OU's Women's team has maintained being on of the top dozen in attendance nationally. Plus Basketball was always second to football to most OU fans & alumni.

I seriously doubt the NFL has any current desire to go to Mexico City, LA, or London. If they did they would be there by now. There was an article here in Jax a few months ago which was a reprint from a London paper about why the NFL won't work in London. The basic problem is that England doesn't have college football (and the same goes for Mexico City). Second on the list was a study done by the NFL on team jersey and ticket sales for NFL games played in London. It turns out that most of the people who went to NFL games in London were Americans who already have their favorite teams. If the NFL knows anything, it is fan loyalty. Real Londoners aren't going to give a crap about following the careers of Mountain West or ACC (or even Big XII and SEC) players, and thus won't generate ticket sales. A team in London would have draw support from an ever changing expatriate fan base.

On top of all this the NFL has learned it has reach brand saturation. Of course, this happens when any business lives by the "growth model". They have pushed the NFL brand at ever possible revenue stream and they are simply out of places to raise more money. As a result the NFL will soon find itself in contraction mode as it starts shedding the expenses.

Mark Cuban sees NFL imploding from over-saturation - SBNation.com (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/3/24/5542442/mark-cuban-nfl-imploding-over-saturation)

Finally, the Raiders and Rams moved from LA in 1995 - 19 years ago.

If anything, London and Mexico City seem like they are being propped up to take over for LA as a relocation threat if it ever happens there. London would be a scheduling/travel nightmare, I think some league executives have even said it would pretty much take a Euro division for it to make sense (granted it may not be the same executives their now).

It is kind of funny, there was stories about many NBA players do not even like the hassles with going to Toronto games due to the extra hassles of crossing the border to Canada, which are less than traveling to UK/Europe and do not have the time change problem with scheduling game times.

I know it's fun to dream big, and there's nothing wrong with that. But the cold. hard reality is that Oklahoma City will not get an NFL franchise. And the chances are even worse, in my opinion, to get a MLB team. At least in the past rounds of expansion MLB has been the most selective of the major sports in where they place franchises.
And quite frankly, I seriously doubt we will get an MLS team any time in the near to mid future. The reason? $$$$ There is not enough of it in Oklahoma City. It's been well chronicled how we had a chance to get into MLS in 2002, I believe, when the expansion fee was something like $10 million. It's now TEN TIMES that! For all the talk from Bob Funk Jr about building a stadium, blah blah, blah. And MLS feasibility study, blah, blah, blah, the reality is he and/or Tim Mclaughlin do NOT have the cash to get in, no matter what they say.
I've referred to this on another forum as the soccer equivalent to "The Great Pumpkin". They want people to believe that if we're sincere enough, and have the most sincere-looking soccer pitch, one day the Great Soccer Ball will fly into OKC and grant us a team. It's total hogwash aimed at getting your money.
If you like the Energy and their level of soccer, then support it. Please do. But don't do it thinking that if we just get enough people to come to Taft Stadium then we'll get an MLS team.
It will.not.happen.
And I'm not a soccer hater. I LOVE soccer. I really do. But I'm not stupid enough to believe that Bob Funk, or any other entity promoting soccer in OKC right now, has the wherewithal to bring an MLS team.

NFL will not happen in the next 30 years in Oklahoma. They are smart enough to know that the market can't support it, along with the fact the local university football programs don't want it either.
Look what the NBA did to OU & OSU basketball programs. Those schools can't give tickets away.

One more time - It ain't gonna happen.

That has to do more with the fact that college basketball plain sucks. 35 second shot clocks=100 passes per possession and a jacked up 3.

I seriously doubt the NFL has any current desire to go to Mexico City, LA, or London. If they did they would be there by now. There was an article here in Jax a few months ago which was a reprint from a London paper about why the NFL won't work in London. The basic problem is that England doesn't have college football (and the same goes for Mexico City). Second on the list was a study done by the NFL on team jersey and ticket sales for NFL games played in London. It turns out that most of the people who went to NFL games in London were Americans who already have their favorite teams. If the NFL knows anything, it is fan loyalty. Real Londoners aren't going to give a crap about following the careers of Mountain West or ACC (or even Big XII and SEC) players, and thus won't generate ticket sales. A team in London would have draw support from an ever changing expatriate fan base.

On top of all this the NFL has learned it has reach brand saturation. Of course, this happens when any business lives by the "growth model". They have pushed the NFL brand at ever possible revenue stream and they are simply out of places to raise more money. As a result the NFL will soon find itself in contraction mode as it starts shedding the expenses.

Mark Cuban sees NFL imploding from over-saturation - SBNation.com (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/3/24/5542442/mark-cuban-nfl-imploding-over-saturation)

Finally, the Raiders and Rams moved from LA in 1995 - 19 years ago.

Good to see that you continue to show that you don't have any idea what your talking about.

NFL revenue continues to climb. The 3 London games sold out over 8 months in advance. The NFL is 100% coming back to la when they 1. Use la as a stick to get stadiums in other cities and 2. When a great stadium deal gets done in LA.

Will Okc get a nlf team. Highly unlikely. However all is would take is Harold Hamm to decide he loves football and to buy a team. He could tune move it here. Nlf could stop him (see al Davis raiders suit). And Okc and the state would 100 % build him a stadium

Bouldersooner - The only thing you got right in your post is that OKC would 100% build a stadium for Harold Hamm. That without a doubt would happen, but back here in the real world where most of live we understand the premise will never happen.

You know, it is almost as if WLAF didn't happen.

Now having said that, it is possible that London becomes a rotating home field for underperforming attendance teams in the US.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/11/11/london-international-series-moving-franchise/18836011/


An October game, the "Wake up to Wembley" matchup between the Detroit Lions and Atlanta Falcons, had a start time of 9:30 a.m. ET in the USA, yet turned in solid ratings in a time slot that could expand the NFL schedule on Sundays.

Three more NFL games are set for London in 2015.

"We've sold a quarter of a million tickets for those three games (this year)," says Waller. " … If you kind of took that and translated it into U.S. domestic terms, that's probably half a season (of home attendance) for most clubs.''

They all said OKC would never have an NBA team. Yep,heard it sooo many times. Wait til Shad Kahn can get out of his lease in Jax. See what happens with that team. IMO they will be moving and it's just a matter of where. La has been used as a bargining chip for years. We hear talk every year that so & so team is moving to La. We keep hearing it til So&So team get their new stadium built. Then comes the next team with stadium issues. This year they really had to turn it up because there are 3 teams all at once needing new stadiums. It appears that STL is going to build one but that still leave San Diego and Oakland. These teams need stadiums to play in and the people of La refuse to kick in any public money to build one. So we will see what happens.

London/Mexico? Next bargining chips if La gets a team.

Interesting read on Deadspin about the Supersonics and how the previous owners screwed up. Especially if you can get past the "Okies Stole Our Team" memes
Howard Schultz Gave Out $3.50 Starbucks Gift Cards: An Insider's Notes On The Shabby Death Of The Seattle SuperSonics (http://deadspin.com/5907371/howard-schultz-gave-out-350-starbucks-gift-cards-an-insiders-notes-on-the-shabby-death-of-the-seattle-supersonics)

He went through a litany of minor reasons why the team needed a new arena: higher capacity, bigger arena footprint, more room for high-end concessions, more places for premium seat holders, a.k.a. the super rich, the people who could afford a pair of courtside season tickets for $70,000. These were the justifications he offered us to explain why we were asking for a heaping pile of taxpayer dollars. After Walker’s spiel, a member of the sales staff asked the fateful question: “Wally, what will this arena upgrade do for Joe Sixpack—the regular fan?”

Dead silence.

After an uncomfortable few seconds, Walker said, “Well, nothing.” The wind went out of me. It was as if he’d punched me in the stomach. Walker tried to backtrack, but the damage had been done. The battle for hearts and minds had ended before it’d even begun.

I like what they say about it on Field of Schemes
Oklahoma City Thunder | Field of Schemes (http://www.fieldofschemes.com/category/nba/oklahoma-city-thunder/)

The whole article is a great read, and is especially recommended for anyone interested in what it feels like to work for an organization that is trying to sell tickets to the very fans that it plans to abandon the minute it can. If there’s an odd note, it’s that Repanich seems to reserve most of his ire for Walker and Howard Schultz, less for demanding a new arena and selling the team to out-of-towners when they couldn’t get one than for being inept about the way they went about it. “I didn’t see how we’d get an arena deal led by men who couldn’t conceive of it as anything but a rich man’s boondoggle, perpetrated on behalf of other rich people,” Repanich writes. Howard Schultz, it seems, was worse than an envy-driven, greedy carpetbagger; he was a lousy liar.

If anything, London and Mexico City seem like they are being propped up to take over for LA as a relocation threat if it ever happens there. London would be a scheduling/travel nightmare, I think some league executives have even said it would pretty much take a Euro division for it to make sense (granted it may not be the same executives their now).

It is kind of funny, there was stories about many NBA players do not even like the hassles with going to Toronto games due to the extra hassles of crossing the border to Canada, which are less than traveling to UK/Europe and do not have the time change problem with scheduling game times.
A London team would need to be in the East division, maybe move Miami to the AFC South and put London in the AFC East or Dallas out of the NFC East. The time difference between London and EST is 5 hours, not that much different than EST and PST which is 3 hours. A noon CST start is 6:00 PM in London, I kind of liked the one earlier game they had this season. It wouldn't surprise me for the Jags to be the one to London, after all Khan owns Fulham of the EPL as does Kronke (Rams/Arsenal) and the Glazer's (Bucs/Manchester United). They are well versed in owning and dealing with a UK based team. Your talking about one game a season for 8 teams, for the division teams in the NBA some teams play that number of games in Toronto in one season. Coaches and players are slaves to routine, they gripe about anything outside of the ordinary.

Not saying that it will happen just that the hurdles aren't as huge as some make it out to be.

MLB went as far as Canada with teams in Montreal (relocated to Washington D. C.,) and Toronto.

Let's not forget the NBA talking about going global back in the late 90s; they made it to Toronto.

The NFL did test those overseas markets with the NFL Europe (WLAF). Just don't see the NFL going into Great Britain, Spain, Italy or Germany as a division or into one of two or those markets. You could probably put a franchise or two in Canada (Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, Edmonton); however it would have a negative impact on the Canadian Football League.

We all know what happened when the Canadian Football League made its debut into the U. S. (Baltimore, Memphis, Birmingham, Shreveport, San Antonio, Las Vegas & Sacramento).

The NBA Grizzlies started out in Vancouver before relocating to Memphis.

The WLAF is not a fair barometer because it was minor league football, there was no tradition and a team in London was not playing Green Bay, Dallas and other well known teams and players. The only time an alternative league has worked some was when they went after top players (like the AFL, USFL and WFL) but the USFL and WFL failed due to poor management. All minor league football, even one with some exposure like the XFL, CFL-US or arena leagues have failed to gain traction because they were still minor leagues. Not saying a team in London will work but some of the reasons why some say it won't work are not fair comparisons. I do think the NFL is going to go in there at some point, if it fails the team will move back to the states at some other awaiting locale.

Well let me end with this, if a team does relocate to London, Mexico City, L.A., or OKC - I hope it is the Jags.

Well let me end with this, if a team does relocate to London, Mexico City, L.A., or OKC - I hope it is the Jags.

You must be a joy to be around at parties.

"What can the Jags do in the offseason to improve?"

"They can leave and never come back. Jacksonville is better off without any sports teams."

I seriously doubt the NFL has any current desire to go to Mexico City, LA, or London. If they did they would be there by now. There was an article here in Jax a few months ago which was a reprint from a London paper about why the NFL won't work in London. The basic problem is that England doesn't have college football (and the same goes for Mexico City). Second on the list was a study done by the NFL on team jersey and ticket sales for NFL games played in London. It turns out that most of the people who went to NFL games in London were Americans who already have their favorite teams. If the NFL knows anything, it is fan loyalty. Real Londoners aren't going to give a crap about following the careers of Mountain West or ACC (or even Big XII and SEC) players, and thus won't generate ticket sales. A team in London would have draw support from an ever changing expatriate fan base.

On top of all this the NFL has learned it has reach brand saturation. Of course, this happens when any business lives by the "growth model". They have pushed the NFL brand at ever possible revenue stream and they are simply out of places to raise more money. As a result the NFL will soon find itself in contraction mode as it starts shedding the expenses.

Mark Cuban sees NFL imploding from over-saturation - SBNation.com (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/3/24/5542442/mark-cuban-nfl-imploding-over-saturation)

Finally, the Raiders and Rams moved from LA in 1995 - 19 years ago.

Facepalm. For someone named just the facts you sure do like to ignore them.

"I can see the kind of reception we got there," said Kraft of New England's visit to the United Kingdom in 2012. "... I would not be disappointed, and I would also believe that we should work hard to try and have a franchise in London before the decade was out."

Goodell, Kraft talk possibility of teams in L.A., London - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000365915/article/goodell-kraft-talk-possibility-of-teams-in-la-london)

Jags still have a lease but that will end one day or be bought out. It was a bad idea to put an NFL franchise in that market to begin with and the NFL now realizes that. But they are stuck for now.

Jags still have a lease but that will end one day or be bought out. It was a bad idea to put an NFL franchise in that market to begin with and the NFL now realizes that. But they are stuck for now.

Though if someone bought the Jags to move them, the price to buying the team and pay off the lease is cheaper than just buying most of the rest of the teams in league and only few are in a position they could be moved any time soon.

ASIDE:

urbanized, I live in Seattle and trust me it is NOT a world class city. Sure, it is a top 15 US city with a nice skyline on a hill up from Puget Sound but no need to placate what it is not.

We have just as much bumbling mistakes and backwater ideals as OKC and actually probably more; case-in-point wife and I took our infant son to downtown Seattle to ride the carousel at Westlake Plaza and it was CLOSED DOWN at 6pm ON CHRISTMAS EVE!!! Downtown SEA was dark, empty, aside from the handful of people (most likely from Canada) who were looking to celebrate Christmas but were horribly disappointed. Call that world class?

Losing the Sonics to OKC was another bumbling mistake. And we ALMOST lost the NFL Seahawks to LA (moving vans were loaded and almost on I-5 rolling south when last minute vote on new stadium 'saved the day') AND the MLB Mariners (which took King County and the state to bail them out by building Safeco Field).

Shanghai, Tokyo, NY, Chicago, London, Paris, etc - those are world class cities with incredible vibe, history, and prime status in every meaningful category you can think of. Seattle is just as far away from being a world class city as OKC is, and that's the truth. We just have more people in our metro area.

Though if someone bought the Jags to move them, the price to buying the team and pay off the lease is cheaper than just buying most of the rest of the teams in league and only few are in a position they could be moved any time soon.

The Jags owner just bought the team a few years ago and doesn't want to sell. He tried to buy the Rams first but was shutout so he went after the Jags. But if someone has an extra billion laying around they could put in a bid.

Contestant: I will take Sports Trivia for $100 Alex.

Alex: The answer is: "Something that will never happen."

Contestant: What is the NFL in OKC?

Alex: Correct

Contestant: I will take Sports Trivia for $100 Alex.

Alex: The answer is: "Something that will never happen."

Contestant: What is the NFL in OKC?

Alex: Correct

That's cute & creative kwhey.

The NFL in OKC thread can be used to talk about the NFL as TV viewers and other sundry activities. It's no slam on our market.

You learn things as posters: JTF (Kerry) came on, he provided us with valuable information as to why you 'don't want the NFL in OKC,' thru his evaluation of what has occurred in Jacksonville...

Kwhey, Second Round: Let's play jeopardy, again we have 'Sports Trivia.'

Contestant: I will take Sports Trivia for $200 Alex.

Alex: The answer is: "Which football crazed market couldn't be duped by the NFL?"

Contestant: What is the NFL in Oklahoma City?

Alex: Correct :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats:

Alex Trebek :D 'Next category?'