I wonder which routes Allegiant would fly from TUL? Looking at the regional airports they fly to Las Vegas and Phoenix (Mesa) from Wichita, and fly to Orlando (Sanford) from NW Arkansas and Little Rock. I could potentially see flights to all of those airports from TUL.

Good number crunching there Venture.

My question is are prices only going to be impacted on the days that Allegiant flies or would it be for all days? I assume that Allegiant would not be flying daily routes out of Tulsa? Or will they?

If they fly on Sat and Tues would Saturday and Tues see good prices and then the routes would resume back to "normal" prices every other day of the week??

In markets with G4 with the low fare market leader, the other average airfares are around $31 higher than the average G4 fare. So the takeaway is that right now TUL-MCO (even though G4 goes into SFB) is on average $299.86 with AA being the "low fare" leader with an average of $275.81. That is insanely high. So we could see airfares from $140-$200 in that market and if we look at average that still means overall fares will go down $100-170 (I did put in a little extra padding).

TUL-LAS has an average fare of $243.64 with WN controlling 71% of the market but the lowest fared carrier is actually United at $216.16. Again, we could expect fares to drop $110-$150 in that market and bring everyone else down as well. When we look at comparable airfares with OKC that should raise some concerns about losing additional leakage on the NE edges of the catchment area.

Now G4 has a little different business model. They are driven by 1) hotel/car package bookings and 2) ancillary revenues. G4 will pull out of markets with an 85% load factor if people aren't booking hotel rooms through them. The ancillary part are your additional fees, essentially the a la carte model which you and I'm sure most with an interest in the industry understand. On average G4 collects $34 from each passenger. That still represents a significant savings over existing prices considering airlines like American and United that charge bag fees, don't have to include those fees in the cost of their tickets (it is a wonderful tax loophole for airlines...pretty much the only one unlike every other industry). Their additional fees aren't completely unreasonable either, considering what you are paying for - getting from A to Z for cheap. Optional Services & Fees | Allegiant Air (http://www2.allegiantair.com/popup/optional-services-fees)

I wonder which routes Allegiant would fly from TUL? Looking at the regional airports they fly to Las Vegas and Phoenix (Mesa) from Wichita, and fly to Orlando (Sanford) from NW Arkansas and Little Rock. I could potentially see flights to all of those airports from TUL.

I'm betting on Las Vegas, but looking at the massive fare premium American has to Orlando right now...I wouldn't be shocked if that were it.

Reports are indicating Allegiant will be adding OKC as well to SFB.

Reports are indicating Allegiant will be adding OKC as well to SFB.

Well it didn't take long for those reports to prove correct.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/3873604?embargo=1


Twice-daily flights on Thursdays and Sundays take off Nov. 14. Tickets go on sale Tuesday, with a limited number of seats at the $99 round-trip price through Thursday, said Micah Lillard, spokesman for Las Vegas-based Allegiant. After that, the airline will offer $69 one-way tickets for a week.


Allegiant will be eligible for incentives offered by the city, which were modified last month to attract new low-cost air carriers. The airline is set to receive $25,000 for the Orlando route as well as $12,500 for advertising and marketing costs.

Weird to have twice daily flights only on 2 days of the week. Might make more sense to spread those 4 flights out over 4 days?

Weird to have twice daily flights only on 2 days of the week. Might make more sense to spread those 4 flights out over 4 days?

I agree but it probably has a lot to do with availability of aircraft.

I'll wait for the schedule to load in the morning, but I think it will just be one flight - twice weekly. Which fits their model...I can only think of 1 or 2 examples where more than one flight a day operated on a route.

Reading through the article...Carney clearly isn't educated on Allegiant.


“We know anecdotally that we have people who drive to Dallas. We lose traffic to Dallas to take Allegiant or Spirit (Airlines.) It saves them that much money to drive there,” she said.

Allegiant doesn't fly from Dallas. :)

It is somewhat depressing that nearly every airport associated with Allegiant announcing tomorrow had something posted to the Facebook page...yet Carney and Kranenburg apparently haven't embraced social media yet.

Seems like they live in their own little universe. We need a younger creative person in charge of social media...also, the website sucks. It's no better than their last one.

Seems like they live in their own little universe. We need a younger creative person in charge of social media...also, the website sucks. It's no better than their last one.

The website fits a design style I gave up about 10 years ago.

The website fits a design style I gave up about 10 years ago.

True. Means it's cutting edge and trendy to them then.

Seems like they live in their own little universe. We need a younger creative person in charge of social media...also, the website sucks. It's no better than their last one.

The website design seems fine, I think a bigger issue is they probably need someone in working on content full time. It has the feel that there are just some people that publish whatever report they do on the normal cycle and someone who in spare time from there regular duties will do press releases or news. The ads are probably done by a third party and maps probably too when they know they are out of date enough they should have been changed several months ago.

Serious question -- What would it take for Carney to get the boot? Who would have the authority to make such a move? It is transparently clear to just about everyone who has any interest in aviation/transportation that she has no clue what she is doing or at the very least could be doing an infinitely better job promoting WRWA.

Would probably have to go through Kran-dingleberry (Kranenburg) and probably council (Couch).

Not 100% certain though.

she may have meant Wichita when speaking of G4, but yeah that's bad

I'd favor tossing out the entire lot of them and starting over. We should have better commercial service at KOKC, and a stronger support of general aviation at KPWA. Clarence Page should be sold or plowed under.

From someone who has experience managing social media for a large organization, it can be a huge time suck away from traditional responsibilities. Especially if you want to truly engage followers on the various social platforms.

You might want to check this year's budget book (http://www.okc.gov/finance/FY14%20Proposed%20Budget%20Book%20for%20Web%20Con. pdf) (page 80). Airports, like other City departments, understands the importance of social and are working to better incorporate that into their communications plan. This is reflected in the position that was adopted.

A "time suck" away from what exactly? I think the point being made is that Carney isn't capable of managing the "traditional responsibilities" you mention anyway (let alone fully incorporating social media) -- not knowing G4 does not have Dallas operations is just one example.


From someone who has experience managing social media for a large organization, it can be a huge time suck away from traditional responsibilities. Especially if you want to truly engage followers on the various social platforms.

You might want to check this year's budget book (http://www.okc.gov/finance/FY14%20Proposed%20Budget%20Book%20for%20Web%20Con. pdf) (page 80). Airports, like other City departments, understands the importance of social and are working to better incorporate that into their communications plan. This is reflected in the position that was adopted.

From someone who has experience managing social media for a large organization, it can be a huge time suck away from traditional responsibilities. Especially if you want to truly engage followers on the various social platforms.

You might want to check this year's budget book (http://www.okc.gov/finance/FY14%20Proposed%20Budget%20Book%20for%20Web%20Con. pdf) (page 80). Airports, like other City departments, understands the importance of social and are working to better incorporate that into their communications plan. This is reflected in the position that was adopted.

Maybe they should find someone who can do the job...?

PR is no longer interviews for the newspaper once a month, social media is huge now and maybe she just isn't capable of handling it.

Flight schedule is as I had thought...1 flight, twice weekly.

Inbound
Depart SFB at 1:45 PM and Arrive OKC at 3:35 pm - Flight 658

Outbound
Depart OKC 7:35pm and arrive SFB at 10:50 pm - flight 659 --- This is for Nov 14th ONLY

Depart OKC 4:20 PM and arrive SFB at 7:35 PM - Flight 659. --- Effective Nov 17th.

From someone who has experience managing social media for a large organization, it can be a huge time suck away from traditional responsibilities. Especially if you want to truly engage followers on the various social platforms.

You might want to check this year's budget book (http://www.okc.gov/finance/FY14%20Proposed%20Budget%20Book%20for%20Web%20Con. pdf) (page 80). Airports, like other City departments, understands the importance of social and are working to better incorporate that into their communications plan. This is reflected in the position that was adopted.

Spending 30 seconds posting "We will be announcing exciting new service next Tuesday. Stay tuned!!!" doesn't seem like a "time suck" to me.

catch22 - You made the statment above that WRWA needs to have a person devoted to social media. The link shows that their staff agrees with you. If you look at the proposed budget from last year, the position was there as well but didn't get approved. I just wanted to provide some background to this discussion.

Yes, social media is a big part of how we communicate, however I know from experience that it takes time and resources on top of all the other "duties as assigned," including working with the traditional media. Social media is no longer about posting information, it is about engaging and responding. s00nr1 - When I say time suck, I don't mean that it isn't worthwhile or necessary. I'm saying that it takes a great deal of time to manage effectively on top of all the other duties.

I thought it would be worthwhile to respond because of my background working in social media for a local government. For what it is worth, I disagree the statements that have been made about current staff.

It is interesting how hundreds of other airports can manage an online presence fairly well, using their main communications person, yet for OKC it seems to be a major undertaking.

Zach, you can disagree all you want but the fact remains the current communications leadership at WRWA has done next to nothing to promote the airport to the general public. Not to mention coming across as uninformed in regards to current events in the industry.

Here's a look at Tulsa's social media presence:

https://twitter.com/tulsaairports

https://www.facebook.com/TulsaAirports

There is absolutely no reason WRWA should be outdone in ANY category by TIA.

Wichita (ICT):

https://twitter.com/FlyICT

https://www.facebook.com/flywichita

Again, outclassed by a similar-sized airport.

It is interesting how hundreds of other airports can manage an online presence fairly well, using their main communications person, yet for OKC it seems to be a major undertaking.

Just got off the phone with the DFW Airport PIO. They have one full time employee that manages their social media and up to four other communication positions that devote part of their time to social media.

They are looking to add another or maybe outsource monitoring to keep up with the demand.

Just got off the phone with the DFW Airport PIO. They have one full time employee that manages their social media and up to four other communication positions that devote part of their time to social media.

They are looking to add another or maybe outsource monitoring to keep up with the demand.

DFW is also going to have a much larger passenger base to deal with direct inquiries. OKC doesn't have anywhere near that amount. Let's keep it real and compare apples to apples. OKC enplanes 1.8 million a year give or take...DFW 27 million. Here are links to other airports that board a similar number of passenger than OKC. Links to their FB and Twitter accounts are available there and it also gives a good look at just how other airports design their pages - some are just stunning.

For interest of disclosure I picked airports with a 200k variance of OKC. MHT, ORF, RIC, and SDF are just below OKC whereas TUS, RNO, PVD, and OMA are above OKC.

Home | Manchester-Boston Regional Airport (http://www.flymanchester.com/)
Norfolk International Airport | (http://www.norfolkairport.com/)
Richmond International Airport | Now you're going places (http://www.flyrichmond.com/)
Louisville Regional Airport Authority (http://www.flylouisville.com/)
Tucson International Airport - Travel Advisory (http://www.flytucson.com/)
Reno-Tahoe International Airport (http://www.renoairport.com/)
Green Airport | PVD | Rhode Island (http://www.pvdairport.com/)
Omaha Airport Authority | OMA (http://www.flyoma.com/)

Zach - considering D/FW is a top 10 airport in the world I would hardly begin there for a comparison. Instead, comparing other airports in our region with similar traffic numbers (as I did in my previous post) would be more beneficial.

WRWA just posted it in on FB. :)

Zach - considering D/FW is a top 10 airport in the world I would hardly begin there for a comparison. Instead, comparing other airports in our region with similar traffic numbers (as I did in my previous post) would be more beneficial.

I'm waiting for calls back from both cities. I will say, after looking at Tulsa's org chart, they do have three marketing/communication positions. We currently have one, two if you want to count the newly created positions.

I'm not claiming to be an expert on airports. I just know what it takes to communicate/engage on multiple platforms with a limited staff, no matter what the size of your organization.

Tulsa has two communication staffers that manage social media. One that handles during the day and the other at night.

Tulsa has two communication staffers that manage social media. One that handles during the day and the other at night.

Now are those for the city overall or for the airport specifically? If you are talking city overall, then that isn't going to be a fair comparison. Most airports are ran under an airport authority or port authority, not so much the city directly. I understand you have an interest in this being the city's Creative Services Manager, but you really need to focus on airport operations directly. Many airports utilize their communications manager/director to handle social media as well, but it seems you are just providing stats on the city overall. Does Karen Carney's responsibilities extend outside of the airport authority?

What I've posted is airport specific. What you see on their Twitter, Facebook and other social media sites and the amount of staff that are contributing.

Zach, I understand you're inclined to defend the current staff at WRWA. However, I can 100% guarantee there is someone out there who would be capable of handling these duties (or at least making some effort to). There is simply no excuse for not having utilized/communicated on FB or Twitter in nearly 3 months when you have the visibility WRWA does. None.

Again, as was stated earlier, if the current director can't get it done, get someone in there who can.

Wichita (ICT) has a dedicated part-time employee that handles their social media and sometimes utilizes an area ad agency to manage according to their PIO (who doesn't do any of their social posting).

I don't post often, unless I have something to add to the discussion. This is a topic I felt I could provide some background. I will take this as a cue to fly on out.

Any idea which gate they will be using

Zach, this is in no way an indictment of you and I'm sure we all appreciate the info you have brought here. However, the fact remains that the current state of the communications/PR dept at WRWA falls well-below that of similar airports both regionally and nationwide. I just don't see how someone can defend that fact.

Tulsa International Airport (https://www.facebook.com/TulsaAirports?ref=stream&hc_location=stream)
The 1st person to buy an Allegiant Air ticket today will receive five free days of Valet Parking at TUL! And, by booking at the airport you can save on fees! Counter hours are Tuesdays and Thursdays 1-3PM through October 24, 2013. The counter opens at 1pm today and is located next to American Airlines.

Any idea which gate they will be using

Probably depends who gets the ground handling contract.

Tulsa International Airport (https://www.facebook.com/TulsaAirports?ref=stream&hc_location=stream)
Allegiant ticket sales start in 10 minutes at the airport! The first person to book a trip at TUL gets 5 free days of valet parking at TUL for your trip to Orlando!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/s720x720/575180_10151614234959220_429686239_n.jpg

Just looking at the air fares...some amazing deals there. $45.50 one way on most days still, except for the holiday weeks, which is a great deal regardless of who you talk to.

Can you name an organization where employees aren't being asked to do more, usually with less? Why should WRWA be an exception?

OK, I think we've beat this dead horse dead. We agree that WRWA isn't doing as much as we'd like when it comes to promoting the airport.

Back to flying.

Curious why Southwest got rid of the Kansas City flights. I had been taking that route on and off for a couple years. I don't think it had so much to do with the passenger load. I am betting more it had to do with the wright amendment expiring or consolidation as a result of the Airtran merger.

Curious why Southwest got rid of the Kansas City flights. I had been taking that route on and off for a couple years. I don't think it had so much to do with the passenger load. I am betting more it had to do with the wright amendment expiring or consolidation as a result of the Airtran merger.

O&D has been decreasing for the last 9 months...not enough to justify 2 nonstops a day. If the O&D isn't there to support it with higher yield traffic, it's gone.

Curious why Southwest got rid of the Kansas City flights. I had been taking that route on and off for a couple years. I don't think it had so much to do with the passenger load. I am betting more it had to do with the wright amendment expiring or consolidation as a result of the Airtran merger.

It seemed like after Chicago Midway flights opened up a lot of the load that was going to Kansas City shifted there.

Anyone know what type of aircraft Allegiant will be using on this route? Im assuming MD's? Or Airbus?

Anyone know what type of aircraft Allegiant will be using on this route? Im assuming MD's? Or Airbus?

Stupid 80...errr MD-80. :)

I dig the Mad dog! :) The punch it gives you in the gut when holding is awesome.

Plus, when riding one, I can bring my own IFE :)

It seemed like after Chicago Midway flights opened up a lot of the load that was going to Kansas City shifted there.

I could totally see the chicago route killing off traffic. They always varied on what the jump was after KC but alot of time it was chicago.

Could you see any other airline jumping in a taking over a direct OKC to MCI route? It seems like it would work as long as a smaller plane was used? Right now the best options are to fly through DAL/DFW which makes a 1 hour flight into a 2-3 hour flight.

I could totally see the chicago route killing off traffic. They always varied on what the jump was after KC but alot of time it was chicago.

Could you see any other airline jumping in a taking over a direct OKC to MCI route? It seems like it would work as long as a smaller plane was used? Right now the best options are to fly through DAL/DFW which makes a 1 hour flight into a 2-3 hour flight.

I would think it would do quite well with an ATR-72-600 or a Dash 8-Q400. Low operating costs for the most part, at least compared to small jets, and the speed of the aircraft have improved to where they wouldn't be much slower than a pure jet.

I would think it would do quite well with an ATR-72-600 or a Dash 8-Q400. Low operating costs for the most part, at least compared to small jets, and the speed of the aircraft have improved to where they wouldn't be much slower than a pure jet.

The problem is what airline would fly such a route on an ATR?

The problem is what airline would fly such a route on an ATR?

We would have to look at an independent like Silver Airways or someone similar. So as I look through the market data for OKC there are definitely some market opportunities here to play with...

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=c:%231b67ce,OKC-DCA/LGA/BOS/MCO/OAK/SAN/FLL/SEA/TPA/SMF,%0d%0ac:%23980909,OKC-MCI/STL/AUS/SAT/MSY/BNA/ABQ/MEM/MAF,&MS=wls2&MR=300&MX=720x360&PM=b:disc7%2b%22%25N%2212:black&PC=%23006634&PW=2

Now some of these markets already have nonstop service now, but I feel they could sustain a bit more. Red lines would be operated with the ~70 passenger ATR/Q400 prop operations and the Blue lines would vary from being able to support a 120-150 seat aircraft or an 80-110 seat small jet.

So yeah the trick come down to finding an operator. Ideally we would want existing carriers to pick up some of these - like Alaska go for SEA and Southwest add OAK. Otherwise we would need to evaluate the LCC/Regional market and see if any of them could offer the service or perhaps a home grown option...just not as stupid as the Great Plains people. So let me show the cities another way...

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=c:%233dce1b,OKC-EWR/BWI/IAD/CLE/DTW/MDW/ORD/STL/MSP/ATL/SFB/DAL/DFW/IAH/HOU/DEN/SLC/PHX/LAS/LAX/SFO,%0d%0ac:%231b67ce,OKC-SAT/SAN/FLL/SEA/MCI,%0d%0ac:%23980909,OKC-AUS/BOS/MSY/TPA/SMF/BNA/PDX/PHL/PIT/IND,&MS=wls2&MR=300&MX=720x360&PM=b:7star7%2b%22%25U%2210:black&PC=%23006634&PW=2

Green line - existing/announced nonstop service.
Blue line - no nonstop service, market with 100+ passengers per day traveling.
Red line - no nonstop service, market with 48+ passengers per day traveling. I picked 48 because CLE has 48 ppd and are a good threshold as smallest with nonstop service.

Overall we really are in good shape, there are just some additional holes to fill. As we look at the markets in blue those are clearly targets that the airport has to go after to land nonstop service. MCI is in there and we are losing that, but that is just a case of the wrong operator for that market in today's environment. FLL/MIA is on the map and could provide a window to get AA nonstop service or even G4 flights to FLL (though they haven't expanded much there). SAN and SAT are tough to find someone to fly those.

If Alaska ever came to OKC, SAN would be a natural addition to SEA. They are growing in SAN and have a good following building there.

I believe Alaska does AUS-SAN. Southwest is also big in SAN and if they want a piece of the obviously successful OKC-California market without entering the bloodbath of OKC-LAX, SAN would be a good alternative.

First flight fares are now up to $102 to SFB on G4...definitely a good sign to see it filling up. :)

I dig the Mad dog! :) The punch it gives you in the gut when holding is awesome.

Plus, when riding one, I can bring my own IFE :)

Haha not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but the MDs are awesome. Going to be sorely missed at least from a pax standpoint, even if they're gas hogs. I contend the MCE cabin in AA's S80s is the most comfortable Y cabin in the US today. Amazing legroom and recline, almost feels lie-flat compared to what's in the 737s. Hopefully OKC will be one of the last S80 stations for AA. Love those things! So what there's no ptv (or even overhead tv). Bring your tablet or read a book!

For those who don't follow Allegiant on faceplace, here is a link to an ongoing contest they have been running: Win Free Flights - Allegiant Dodge High Fares (http://dodgehighfares.com/win-free-flights/)

They've been holding dodge ball tournaments around the country for the last few months raising money for local charities and giving away free flights. Tulsa linked it but naturally nothing from OKC. :)

no1cub: Totally being serious! Im a fan of the MD's. Both riding in them and flying behind them.

Was flying out of ABI one time where there was a divert, had to taxi behind the guy and when we were holding and he was in position, the roar of the engines was unbelievable! I'll miss them for sure.

And I do believe OKC and TX stations will be the last ones to lose them... at least I hope.

I see your Mad Dog and raise you the best looking bird to take the skies. :)

ZBVh2GJJdus

Tulsa already updated their terminal map and info to reflect Allegiant's counter space and their departure gate.

OKC just now posted a release on their website of the new service. No other info...