View Full Version : Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013
Pages :
1
2
3
4
5
6
[ 7]
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
catch22 06-27-2013, 08:18 AM And also a first for me. My wait time was about 4 minutes for food, despite a large line. And my food was so hot I couldn't eat it for several minutes.
Dramatic change from the "Sub-sonic" I am used to.
catch22 06-27-2013, 09:00 AM Per airport trust: Smoking room in the central terminal will be closed effective 1 sep 2013
catch22 06-27-2013, 09:08 AM Per airport trust: awarding construction contract to Pteris Global for the construction of the checked baggage inspection facility. The current setup underneath the terminal is 7 individual and separated baggage inspection points -- one for each airline. Very inefficient setup as TSA has to staff each loop per the individual airlines.
The new setup will funnel all bags to a single checkpoint for screening, and then an automated sorting system will send the bag to the individual airlines bagroom belts under the terminal. Bags that get missorted will be sent to a "junk" belt where airlines will check before a flight leaves to see if any of their bags got missorted.
venture 06-28-2013, 07:31 AM Per airport trust: Smoking room in the central terminal will be closed effective 1 sep 2013
Did they mention a replacement at all? Granted that room is disgusting, but there are plenty of smokers who travel and our security lines aren't always quick if they need to go outside the terminal doors.
catch22 06-28-2013, 10:28 AM Did they mention a replacement at all? Granted that room is disgusting, but there are plenty of smokers who travel and our security lines aren't always quick if they need to go outside the terminal doors.
It's to comply with health laws.
In 2003 it was made that all public buildings were to remove smoking rooms. This did not include public buildings operated by trusts. Recently it was expanded to include trust operated public buildings.
I think the employee smoke room underneath the West concourse walkway connection to the main terminal will remain, but that is not open to the public.
ljbab728 06-28-2013, 11:39 PM Did they mention a replacement at all? Granted that room is disgusting, but there are plenty of smokers who travel and our security lines aren't always quick if they need to go outside the terminal doors.
That is true of most airports and the smokers have to adjust to that situation.
venture 06-29-2013, 07:43 AM That is true of most airports and the smokers have to adjust to that situation.
You would be shocked how many airports actually have smoking lounges inside but it is operated alongside a restaurant that requires people to at least purchase a beverage. Granted I don't smoke, so I don't really care. If anything this will push more to the e-cig thing, which I don't believe falls under any inside smoking ban.
Snowman 06-29-2013, 09:57 AM You would be shocked how many airports actually have smoking lounges inside but it is operated alongside a restaurant that requires people to at least purchase a beverage. Granted I don't smoke, so I don't really care. If anything this will push more to the e-cig thing, which I don't believe falls under any inside smoking ban.
It seems unlikely to expect e-cigs will be allowed where cigarette are banned.
ljbab728 06-30-2013, 12:17 AM You would be shocked how many airports actually have smoking lounges inside but it is operated alongside a restaurant that requires people to at least purchase a beverage. Granted I don't smoke, so I don't really care. If anything this will push more to the e-cig thing, which I don't believe falls under any inside smoking ban.
Count me as not being shocked, venture. I'm very familiar with airports and, as an ex-smoker, I used to be very interested in smoking area availability. It is still, however, not easy to find smoking areas within an airport building within the United States.
venture 06-30-2013, 06:43 AM It seems unlikely to expect e-cigs will be allowed where cigarette are banned.
I actually was curious and didn't find many places that tagged e-cigs on with their public smoking bans. Seattle was the one notable place that did. Regardless...this is well off topic now, so we can move this to another thread if needed. LOL
catch22 07-02-2013, 07:51 AM Looks like the Route 66 grill in the west concourse also went thru some menu changes. More of a actual sit down food. Breakfast is a better menu (French toast, biscuits and gravy, etc.) instead of generic breakfast sandwiches.
damonsmuz 07-02-2013, 10:00 PM Was looking up in the sky around 640 in NE OKC and saw what I thought was an AA CRJ-700 in new AA paint scheme coming into OKC. Can anyone confirm this? or am I wrong?
catch22 07-03-2013, 04:24 AM Was looking up in the sky around 640 in NE OKC and saw what I thought was an AA CRJ-700 in new AA paint scheme coming into OKC. Can anyone confirm this? or am I wrong?
I see them here quite often. Daily occurrence almost.
no1cub17 07-03-2013, 11:02 AM I see them here quite often. Daily occurrence almost.
Sounds like AA3011 inbound from ORD! The new paint has grown on me. Looks much better in real life.
HangryHippo 07-03-2013, 11:08 AM Sounds like AA3011 inbound from ORD! The new paint has grown on me. Looks much better in real life.
I really like their new take on the eagle and the silver and new logo is really nice, but that tail design is horrendous. Just has got to go.
venture 07-03-2013, 03:46 PM I really like their new take on the eagle and the silver and new logo is really nice, but that tail design is horrendous. Just has got to go.
I can deal with the new logo - it's not bad at all...and the overall new look (at least isn't isn't the typical eurotrash white that has infected the industry). The tail though is hideous. I'm hoping Doug replaces it is with something a bit more pleasing to the eye.
Something like this...
http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00015470.jpg
http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00000316.jpg
HangryHippo 07-03-2013, 04:09 PM Now were talking. I like those a lot, but maybe with their new logo instead of the eagle. That would look awesome.
no1cub17 07-03-2013, 04:28 PM I really like their new take on the eagle and the silver and new logo is really nice, but that tail design is horrendous. Just has got to go.
It's grown on me. Took awhile. And definitely looks better from a distance. Have to say if it has a redeeming value it's that boy does it stand out - I remember seeing a new AA 77W land at LHR from T5 and it definitely catches your eye. So if that's what AA was going for - they succeeded! Definitely prefer something that stands out to the boring old euro-white that's polluting the skies these days.
s00nr1 07-04-2013, 06:44 AM I was hoping for something along the lines of this for the tail:
http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00015481.jpg
Tier2City 07-04-2013, 09:17 AM I can deal with the new logo - it's not bad at all...and the overall new look (at least isn't isn't the typical eurotrash white that has infected the industry). The tail though is hideous. I'm hoping Doug replaces it is with something a bit more pleasing to the eye.
Something like this...
http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00015470.jpg
http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00000316.jpg
Oh Gawd - not the swoosh!
venture 07-11-2013, 01:40 PM Hopefully some days these show up on OKC-ORD (where they will be based initially)...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BO6RIwmCcAA0dOC.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BO6QR5_CIAASpzN.jpg:large
rayhurst 07-11-2013, 01:50 PM Or even better OKC-MIA or OKC-JFK/LGA!!
venture 07-11-2013, 01:56 PM Or even better OKC-MIA or OKC-JFK/LGA!!
Well not this aircraft specifically. The 175s are getting based in ORD. CR7s are going to JFK and MIA.
venture 07-11-2013, 05:58 PM Diversions today...
AAL753 (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL753)B738 (http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B738)LaGuardia (KLGA (http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KLGA))Thu 01:18PM04:16PM (? (http://flightaware.com/about/faq.rvt#flightresultunknown))AAL1033 (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL1033)MD80 (http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/MD80)Reagan National (KDCA (http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KDCA))Thu 01:41PM04:08PM (? (http://flightaware.com/about/faq.rvt#flightresultunknown))AAL517 (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL517)B738 (http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B738)Toronto Pearson Int'l (CYYZ (http://flightaware.com/live/airport/CYYZ))Thu 02:20PM04:41PM (? (http://flightaware.com/about/faq.rvt#flightresultunknown))ASQ2531 (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASQ2531)CRJ2 (http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/CRJ2)Shreveport Rgnl (KSHV (http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KSHV))Thu 03:29PMThu 04:41PMAAL2251 (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL2251)B752 (http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B752)Boston Logan Intl (KBOS (http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KBOS))Thu 01:06PMThu 05:14PMAAL759 (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL759)B738 (http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B738)LaGuardia (KLGA (http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KLGA))Thu 01:52PMThu 05:19PMAAL2059 (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL2059)MD80 (http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/MD80)Reagan National (KDCA (http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KDCA))Thu 02:18PMThu 05:27PMAAL2331 (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL2331)MD83 (http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/MD83)Chicago O'Hare Intl (KORD (http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KORD))Thu 03:18PMThu 05:28PMAAL525 (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL525)MD83 (http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/MD83)Raleigh-Durham Intl (KRDU (http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KRDU))Thu 02:53PMThu 05:48PM
catch22 07-15-2013, 01:40 PM Barely holding onto positive territory for the year...
http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/June%202013%20Enplanement.pdf
damonsmuz 07-16-2013, 02:28 PM From airliners.net, interior pics of AA's A319 look nice. It may be a while before this plane pops up on an OKC routing, but still worth enjoying.
AA A319 Interior Pics — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5818536/)
venture 07-16-2013, 07:59 PM Allegiant announced today they are going into AUS up against WN to LAS. Should be interesting. It is also sounding like they are looking at turning AUS into one of their destination focus cities.
Say what you will about G4...they've done an AMAZING job building up their network and their brand, the fact they are going up against the big boys now is impressive. They also recently announced they will enter the LAX-HNL market.
Their Route Map: Allegiant Air (http://www2.allegiantair.com/interactive-routemap)
All flights operated with either MD-80s, A319s, or 757s.
damonsmuz 07-16-2013, 09:54 PM Ive always enjoyed the market that G4 has created. It's not your classic airliner. I dont know what their long term plan is and maybe down the road they will want to become one of the "bigger guys", but what they are doing right now has turned out to be very profitable.
G4 makes moves rather quickly to make sure the company is always doing well, even if it means pulling out of stations. And it's working for them. Hope it continues...
venture 07-17-2013, 11:30 PM If you ever wondered how airline costs compare...here is a decent comparison from the DOT for 2012. It was posted on A.net at: US Airline Aircraft Operating Cost Report — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5820735/)
Legend = Total block Hour Cost USD / Burn per hour gallons / Average stage length / CASM
EMB 190
B6 - $3460 / 626 / 647 / 11.1
US - $3658 / 592 / 409 / 13.7
A319
DL - $5476 / 688 / 710 / 12.9 (probably very high due number of VIP configured aircraft, and low ASM count)
F9 - $3928 / 715 / 908 / 7.9
NK - $3424 / 756 / 886 / 6.3
UA - $4514 / 761 / 1042 / 9.7
US - $4530 / 738 / 727 / 10.7
VX - $4067 / 669 / 1695 / 8.1
A320
B6 - $4204 / 790 / 1314 / 7.0
DL - $4772 / 759 / 948 / 8.6
F9 - $4529 / 732 / 1182 / 7.4
NK - $3712 / 740 / 911 / 5.6
UA - $4859 / 798 / 1122 / 8.7
US - $4710 / 799 / 1087 /8.2
VX - $4296 / 720 / 1540 / 7.2
MD-80
AA - $4702 / 956 / 813 /9.3
DL - $4598 / 874 / 603 /10.0
G4 - $4326 / 980 / 906 / 7.2
737-700
AS - $4254 / 692 / 932 / 9.1
DL - $4457 / 664 / 1210 / 9.3
FL - $4012 / 682 / 1017 / 7.6
UA - $4330 / 713 / 1361 / 8.9
WN - $4124 / 726 / 707 / 8.1
737-800
AA - $4575 / 795 / 1164 / 7.4
AS - $4173 / 801 / 1537 / 6.3
DL - $4902 / 779 / 1191 / 7.6
UA - $4527 / 807 / 1306 / 7.3
SY - $3945 / 705 / 1170 / 6.5
WN - $4093 / 780 / 1384 / 6.5
B757-200
AA - $6191 / 1091 / 1446 / 8.1
DL - $5493 / 982 / 1213 / 7.8
UA - $5923 / 1066 / 1255 / 8.1
US - $6119 / 1123 / 1793 / 7.9
B767-300
AA - $8008 / 1569 / 2848 / 7.9
DL - $8015 / 1685 / 3274 / 8.0
HA - $8710 / 1547 / 2970 / 8.2
UA - $8231 / 1595 / 3194 / 8.8
A330-200
DL - $8754 / 1887 / 4405 / 7.6
HA - $8968 / 1747 / 3080 / 6.5
US - $8949 / 1833 / 3932 / 6.8
B777-200
AA - $11358 / 2204 / 4613 / 9.4
DL - $11147 / 2596 / 5625 / 8.2
UA - $10942 / 2142 / 4486 / 8.0
B747-400
DL - $14702 / 3530 / 4414 / 7.8
UA - $15576 / 3212 / 5616 / 8.1
GoThunder 07-19-2013, 05:41 PM 777 diversion on the way to DFW
American Airlines (AA) #81 ? 19-Jul-2013 ? EGLL / LHR - KOKC Flight Tracker ? FlightAware (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL81/history/20130719/1125Z/EGLL/KOKC)
damonsmuz 07-19-2013, 06:08 PM 4158
Pic of said diversion... from London
s00nr1 07-19-2013, 06:10 PM Nice, I just sent Venture a tweet asking if he had caught AA81 by any chance.
no1cub17 07-19-2013, 06:11 PM 4158
Pic of said diversion... from London
Wow cool - didn't realize there was weather in Dallas today!
venture 07-19-2013, 06:43 PM Nice, I just sent Venture a tweet asking if he had caught AA81 by any chance.
I guess I need to set twitter back up on my new phone huh? LOL
Looks like I left work 30 minutes too soon or I could have caught a pic of it landing.
venture 07-20-2013, 09:23 PM WN's new schedule load is early Monday. AirTran's is being loaded right now. It will run through Mar 7th.
ATL remains 2 daily operated by AirTran. AM flights moves to 710AM from 700AM, afternoon nonstop goes to 455PM from 525PM.
Return ATL departure is going from 831AM to 900AM and the evening from 802PM to 645PM.
Only one FL operated MDW flight is showing, so we might see WN taking one of those back over. We'll see more Monday.
venture 07-21-2013, 03:25 PM While waiting for the new WN schedule, I did some digging and wondered what markets from OKC have direct service. Direct, for those that don't know, refers to flights operated by the same aircraft (and flight number) without requiring a change. Of course that could mean making several stops, but still...the list came out to be pretty interesting:
Oklahoma City (OKC) flight index (http://info.flightmapper.net/airport/OKC)
Canadahttp://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngVancouver (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_YVR) (YVR) Direct
Guatemalahttp://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngGuatemala City (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_GUA) (GUA) Direct
Jamaicahttp://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngMontego Bay (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_MBJ) (MBJ) Direct
Mexicohttp://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngCancun (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_CUN) (CUN) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngGuadalajara (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_GDL) (GDL) Direct
Puerto Ricohttp://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngSan Juan (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_SJU) (SJU) Direct
Trinidad and Tobagohttp://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngPort Of Spain (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_POS) (POS) Direct
United Stateshttp://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngAkron/Canton (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_CAK) (CAK) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngAlbuquerque (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_ABQ) (ABQ) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngAustin (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_AUS) (AUS) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngBaltimore (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_BWI) (BWI) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngBirmingham (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_BHM) (BHM) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngBoise (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_BOI) (BOI) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngBuffalo (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_BUF) (BUF) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngBullhead City (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_IFP) (IFP) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngBurbank (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_BUR) (BUR) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngBurlington (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_BTV) (BTV) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngCasper (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_CPR) (CPR) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngCharleston (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_CHS) (CHS) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngCharlotte (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_CLT) (CLT) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngCincinnati/Northern Kentucky (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_CVG) (CVG) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngCleveland (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_CLE) (CLE) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngColorado Springs (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_COS) (COS) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngDallas/Ft. Worth (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_DFW) (DFW) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngDenver (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_DEN) (DEN) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngDulles, Washington (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_IAD) (IAD) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngEl Paso (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_ELP) (ELP) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngFargo (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_FAR) (FAR) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngFort Myers (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_RSW) (RSW) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngFresno (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_FAT) (FAT) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngFt. Lauderdale, Fort Lauderdale (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_FLL) (FLL) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngGeorge Bush, Houston (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_IAH) (IAH) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngGrand Rapids (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_GRR) (GRR) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngGreenville (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_GSP) (GSP) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngHarlingen (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_HRL) (HRL) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngHartford (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_BDL) (BDL) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngHartsfield-Jackson Atlanta (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_ATL) (ATL) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngHilo (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_ITO) (ITO) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngHobby, Houston (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_HOU) (HOU) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngIndianapolis (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_IND) (IND) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngIslip (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_ISP) (ISP) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngJacksonville (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_JAX) (JAX) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngKansas City (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_MCI) (MCI) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngKey West (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_EYW) (EYW) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngLa Guardia, New York (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_LGA) (LGA) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngLafayette (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_LFT) (LFT) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngLambert-St Louis Int'l (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_STL) (STL) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngLittle Rock (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_LIT) (LIT) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngLogan, Boston (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_BOS) (BOS) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngLos Angeles (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_LAX) (LAX) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngLouisville (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_SDF) (SDF) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngLove Field, Dallas (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_DAL) (DAL) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngLubbock (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_LBB) (LBB) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngManchester (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_MHT) (MHT) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngMcCarran, Las Vegas (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_LAS) (LAS) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngMemphis (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_MEM) (MEM) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngMiami (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_MIA) (MIA) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngMidland (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_MAF) (MAF) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngMidway, Chicago (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_MDW) (MDW) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngMilwaukee (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_MKE) (MKE) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngMinneapolis (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_MSP) (MSP) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngNashville (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_BNA) (BNA) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngNew Orleans (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_MSY) (MSY) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngNewark Liberty, New York (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_EWR) (EWR) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngNorfolk (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_ORF) (ORF) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngO'Hare, Chicago (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_ORD) (ORD) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngOakland (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_OAK) (OAK) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngOmaha (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_OMA) (OMA) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngOntario (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_ONT) (ONT) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngOrlando (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_MCO) (MCO) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngPensacola (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_PNS) (PNS) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngPhiladelphia (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_PHL) (PHL) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngPittsburgh (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_PIT) (PIT) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngPort Columbus (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_CMH) (CMH) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngPortland (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_PDX) (PDX) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngPortland (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_PWM) (PWM) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngProvidence (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_PVD) (PVD) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngRaleigh/Durham (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_RDU) (RDU) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngReno (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_RNO) (RNO) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngRichmond (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_RIC) (RIC) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngRochester (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_ROC) (ROC) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngRonald Reagan, Washington (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_DCA) (DCA) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngSacramento (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_SMF) (SMF) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngSalt Lake City (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_SLC) (SLC) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngSan Antonio (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_SAT) (SAT) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngSan Diego (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_SAN) (SAN) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngSan Francisco (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_SFO) (SFO) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngSan Jose (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_SJC) (SJC) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngSanta Ana (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_SNA) (SNA) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngSeattle/Tacoma (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_SEA) (SEA) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngSky Harbor, Phoenix (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_PHX) (PHX) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngSpokane (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_GEG) (GEG) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngTampa (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_TPA) (TPA) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngTraverse City (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_TVC) (TVC) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngTucson (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_TUS) (TUS) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngTulsa (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_TUL) (TUL) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngWayne County, Detroit (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_DTW) (DTW) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngWest Palm Beach (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_PBI) (PBI) Direct
http://info.flightmapper.net/static/plus.pngWichita (http://info.flightmapper.net/route/YY_OKC_ICT) (ICT) Direct
Tier2City 07-21-2013, 03:36 PM Is there any significance to direct routings beyond operational positioning issues? For instance, is O&D for all these pairs with OKC different from other pairs that don't have non-stop service with OKC?
venture 07-21-2013, 03:41 PM Is there any significance to direct routings beyond operational positioning issues? For instance, is O&D for all these pairs with OKC different from other pairs that don't have non-stop service with OKC?
Airlines will typically try to get you on the direct flight versus a connection. Southwest in particular uses them to gauge feasibility for offering the market as nonstop. I was reading something a couple months back that Dallas Love to Atlanta is one of the strongest markets for WN right now, and its all direct service right now until Wright is gone and they can do it nonstop.
catch22 07-21-2013, 04:45 PM United's "direct" flights mean nothing. More often than not they are not the same aircraft or even aircraft type. Simply a recycling flight number.
There is no operational efficiency and no marketing relevance.
damonsmuz 07-21-2013, 05:39 PM Caught this on a.net. Tulsa is offering incentives to lure in new routes
Tulsa International Airport offering airlines new incentives for direct flights | Tulsa World (http://www.tulsaworld.com/article.aspx/Tulsa_International_Airport_offering_airlines_new_ incentives/20130711_54_E1_ULNSrn935925)
ljbab728 07-21-2013, 09:15 PM United's "direct" flights mean nothing. More often than not they are not the same aircraft or even aircraft type. Simply a recycling flight number.
There is no operational efficiency and no marketing relevance.
That is called a "change of gauge" flight but could be considered to be a direct flight. An airline will often do that because it will show up before a connection in most airline reservation systems.
catch22 07-21-2013, 10:19 PM That is called a "change of gauge" flight but could be considered to be a direct flight. An airline will often do that because it will show up before a connection in most airline reservation systems.
You act like I'm new to this industry... Although they might appear first in a reservation system, United does not use them for marketing purposes. United is slowly moving towards a system of outbound and back flight numbers for the express side of the house. That is, a hub to line station to hub line will use the same flight number. This is further complicated by the many different cost centers these flight number ranges are assigned to. As the merger progresses and the cost centers are streamlined, flight numbers will be a bit more uniform and will free up more flight number ranges for mainline use. Mainline is forced to recycle flight numbers due to the cost center splits creating inefficiencies. the s-CO cost center is assigned it's own mainline flight number ranges and the s-UA cost center is assigned it's own mainline flight number range. The cross-fleeting complicates this as you move s-CO flights thru s-UA hubs and vice versa. Until mainline has it's own unified individual cost-center and resource pool (unified workgroups, organized station accounting, etc.) direct flights will not be direct flights and will not be marketed as direct flights despite how the reservation system populates a search.
As of 07Jan 2013 there are approx 100 different flight number ranges assigned just for the United and United Express operations. (Not counting code share flight ranges) Mainline is squeezed into 1,299 flight numbers. Today there were 1,957 mainline flights scheduled. Friday 26July there are 2,030 mainline flights scheduled using 1,299 flight numbers.
So, United isn't trying to mislead or false advertise direct flights, there is a true operational need to recycle the flight numbers at this point in time.
venture 07-21-2013, 10:28 PM That is called a "change of gauge" flight but could be considered to be a direct flight. An airline will often do that because it will show up before a connection in most airline reservation systems.
I don't think Catch was disputing that...especially since he actually is in the airline industry and deals with it daily. I know travel agents, which I believe you are, normally have to explain the details to "civilians". :)
What Catch said also isn't unique to UA. AA is doing it now on many Eagle flights and will do it even more as the US merger progresses. I believe they are already working on getting flight numbers setup to make the integration a bit easier from that stand point.
The change of gauge was definitely used more widespread in the past than it is now. I remember USAir especially had many of these "direct" flights from many smaller cities in the Midwest to London and Paris. Of course once you get to PIT in your 737 or MD80 you would be switching to the 767 to get across the pond.
I think we have good examples of how the usage of the "direct" scheduling practice can be used in multiple ways.
ljbab728 07-21-2013, 10:57 PM I was't directing my comment about "change of gauge" towards catch even if it was a response to his comment. I'm sure he understands exactly what I meant but other readers here might not.
And you're correct that "change of gauge" isn't used as often as it used to be. I seem to find it most often for international flights and it does tend to confuse much of the general public.
venture 07-22-2013, 10:02 AM WN's schedule is out...just pulling a date during it, March 3rd, this is what we have...
Departure times in military
ATL - 2x daily (op by FL) - 710, 1655
BWI - 1x daily, 815
MDW - 1x daily (op by FL) - 1100
DAL - 4x daily - 0705, 1220, 1610, 1715
DEN - 3x daily - 810, 1430, 1900
HOU - 4x daily - 840, 1115, 1310, 1750
LAS - 2x daily - 735, 1645
PHX - 2x daily - 640, 1515
STL - 1x daily - 1720
Tulsa's Schedule...
MDW - 1x daily - 905
DAL - 5x daily - 635, 910, 1200, 1445, 2010
DEN - 3x daily - 715, 1250, 1810
HOU - 3x daily - 830, 1420, 1935
LAS - 1x daily - 1345
PHX - 2x daily - 630, 1705
STL - 2x daily - 700, 1735
Richard at Remax 07-22-2013, 10:53 AM I really didn't know where to put this but Southwest has inflight wifi and you can search different cities on an interactive map. Well when I looked at the OKC page it was very dated. Make sure to click "read full text" after first paragraph. Im sure someone on this board is determined enough to get the page up to speed. I mean, they talk about catching a Wranglers game at the Myriad. SMH
Travel Guide - Oklahoma City - Southwest Airlines (http://travel.southwest.com/travel/destinationDetails.html?cityName=Oklahoma+City)
LakeEffect 07-22-2013, 11:29 AM WN's schedule is out...just pulling a date during it, March 3rd, this is what we have...
Departure times in military
ATL - 2x daily (op by FL) - 710, 1655
BWI - 1x daily, 815
MDW - 1x daily (op by FL) - 1100
DAL - 4x daily - 0705, 1220, 1610, 1715
DEN - 3x daily - 810, 1430, 1900
HOU - 4x daily - 840, 1115, 1310, 1750
LAS - 2x daily - 735, 1645
PHX - 2x daily - 640, 1515
STL - 1x daily - 1720
Tulsa's Schedule...
MDW - 1x daily - 905
DAL - 5x daily - 635, 910, 1200, 1445, 2010
DEN - 3x daily - 715, 1250, 1810
HOU - 3x daily - 830, 1420, 1935
LAS - 1x daily - 1345
PHX - 2x daily - 630, 1705
STL - 2x daily - 700, 1735
When did MDW get switched to FL? Didn't they also up it to 2 flights/daily?
venture 07-22-2013, 11:35 AM When did MDW get switched to FL? Didn't they also up it to 2 flights/daily?
It switches to FL in November when ATL is added in. They are going to be using it to route the 717s between the two stations (ATL & MDW). It'll give us a brief stint of business class on a WN flight.
It seems MDW goes down to 1 daily during the winter/seasonal reduction.
catch22 07-24-2013, 05:02 PM And the competition heats up...
Delta going all mainline on Atlanta.
Effective 01Nov to end of schedule.
OKC-ATL
4x M88 1x 73W (737-700)
venture 07-24-2013, 08:19 PM And the competition heats up...
Delta going all mainline on Atlanta.
Effective 01Nov to end of schedule.
OKC-ATL
4x M88 1x 73W (737-700)
I'm not shocked by this at all. They know OKC is a pretty strong WN market and this has a chance to really hurt the O&D market they own right now. I say bring it on. The more competition between everyone the better. Perhaps WN needs to try SLC, OAK, and LAX to help get us mainline on those as well. :)
catch22 07-24-2013, 08:37 PM Edit Nevermind
ljbab728 07-26-2013, 01:17 AM Incentives for new flights from OKC.
Oklahoma City hopes to lure new air carriers with incentive money | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-hopes-to-lure-new-air-carriers-with-incentive-money/article/3866125)
I'm not particularly enamored about the airlines mentioned, however. Those aren't the airlines that most convention goers would look for unless there weren't other options. It mentions approved incentives to add service to LA and Washington. That is fine but we already have nonstop options there so I'm not sure why they were mentioned specifically.
damonsmuz 07-26-2013, 01:22 AM It sounds like they are trying to target AA/USAirways in this article. (LA/WAS).
Looks like OKC vs TUL in this here, TUL recently announced a similar program.
ljbab728 07-26-2013, 01:26 AM It sounds like they are trying to target AA/USAirways in this article. (LA/WAS).
Looks like OKC vs TUL in this here, TUL recently announced a similar program.
AA would be a much better option than the other airlines mentioned.
HOT ROD 07-26-2013, 03:48 AM maybe they're looking to become a focus city operation from one of those smaller airlines. That is the ONLY thing I could think of for WRWA to even do this AND mention convention business in the same breath. It might be doable from one of them and they may better appreciate and afford the incentive vs. say one of the majors committed to their hubs (and therefore unwilling to focus elsewhere)? Probably OKC's only chance right now to prove itself as a mini-hub and add flights for residents/business. ....
Otherwise, it seems like WRWA is just trying to keep up with little sister to the NE, which I thought OKC was already significantly ahead of in every measure. ...
I am very surprised they aren't targeting Alaska Airlines. I mean, isn't that a logical yet significant add - mtc is already done at WRWA, why not have those flights be revenue (much like AA does to Tulsa/KC and FTW)? I'd think OKC could support one flight daily to SEA and perhaps DCA on Alaska. ...
venture 07-26-2013, 10:13 AM This whole thing seems like a reaction to TUL's program. The comment that they are doing it to ensure airlines look at OKC over other cities just scream "we don't want people driving up 44" which is fine.
The incentive program overall is fairly weak in the grand scheme of thing. I also don't get why they are focusing on the LA area or Washington, unless that is just the example they gave for markets to get the 200K.
As far as airline examples...Vision is out. They were vastly decimated by their failed MYR operation last year, they have no ability to really do anything anymore. So that takes us to Spirit (NK) and Allegiant (G4) which are both very successful, very profitable ULCCs.
If we look at Spirit first I think it is a nonstarter. THey have a large focus city already setup in Dallas and outside for a few domestic examples, they still to major markets (in addition to a massive Latin America network). I just don't see how Spirit will work in OKC with out impacting DFW. Plus I don't think OKC is big enough for them to care about right now.
So moving on to Allegiant, this one I think is interesting. They use to fly OKC-LAS but Southwest ran them out. They had originally planned to add SFB but that was scrubbed when they pulled out. They still utilize AAR for their mx here and operate an occasional charter. They just sent a massive signal to the big guys when they announced going into AUS - competing head to head against WN on the LAS route, which is something they went out of their way to avoid.
So let's look at their main bases to look at options...
MYR, SFB, PIE, PGD, FLL, LAS, AZA, OAK, LAX, SAN, HNL and I would also argue BLI (Bellingham, WA).
Now Allegiant is a tricky pony. They are first and foremost a travel company that makes their bread and butter selling vacation packages. They just happen to also own and operate a scheduled airline to help support those packages. Determining which market will work for them here is tough based on O&D data alone because they go into markets that can show zero O&D on the DOT's report, but they'll end up sustaining a 95% load factor on the flights once they start. O&D wise...LAX would be first target, then LAS, AZA (Mesa/Phoenix), followed by Orlando. I just don't know if they are going to be able to see enough packages to those areas from here.
venture 07-26-2013, 10:35 AM maybe they're looking to become a focus city operation from one of those smaller airlines. That is the ONLY thing I could think of for WRWA to even do this AND mention convention business in the same breath. It might be doable from one of them and they may better appreciate and afford the incentive vs. say one of the majors committed to their hubs (and therefore unwilling to focus elsewhere)? Probably OKC's only chance right now to prove itself as a mini-hub and add flights for residents/business. ....
Otherwise, it seems like WRWA is just trying to keep up with little sister to the NE, which I thought OKC was already significantly ahead of in every measure. ...
I am very surprised they aren't targeting Alaska Airlines. I mean, isn't that a logical yet significant add - mtc is already done at WRWA, why not have those flights be revenue (much like AA does to Tulsa/KC and FTW)? I'd think OKC could support one flight daily to SEA and perhaps DCA on Alaska. ...
Southwest is as close to a focus city as I think we'll see. Of course the lines are more blurred when you only have 4 major network carriers with a half dozen hubs and nonstop service to essentially every one.
Speaking of Alaska specifically. They are not going to be expanding to anymore mainline destinations until sometime next year. All growth is being done through Horizon and SkyWest using the CR7s...which is going to be tough on OKC-SEA. Alaska also ins't going to waste a DCA slot on OKC.
If we look at the latest O&D report we have this in order of largest market without nonstop service...
ppd = pax per day, divide this by two to get pdew (pax departures each way)
MCO - 195 ppd, WN gets 45% with avg fare of $245. In a couple weeks they will extend the schedule to cover much of Spring Break so we will see if the seasonal nonstop returns this year. Orlando overall has suffered from OKC for one reason or another. Many have tried, all have failed to make the service work.
SAN - 153 ppd, WN largest at 46% with avg fare of $218. I would love to see a nonstop to SAN, since the last was on ExpressJet during their branded operation, but it is going to be tough. WN is largest there and I can't see them dropping a 737 on the route nonstop, not when OAK or LAX are bigger markets.
SEA - 152 ppd, UA has 23% with avg fare of $232. Reasons mentioned above from AS won't work right now, and I see them as really our only option into there.
BOS/PVD - 137 ppd, AA has 28% at $251. This is a tough one because no one really has a traditional focus city/hub there outside of JetBlue. We aren't "hip" enough for B6 here. :) Plus they are going to look at FLL and JFK before BOS to here anyway...if it were even an option.
SAT - 131 ppd, WN has 65% at $251. They are happy serving this with a one stop in DAL or HOU, so I doubt we'll ever see a nonstop. More on SAT in a bit.
MCI - 120 ppd, WN has 98% at $143. This service is ending next month because the market just isn't sustainable with a 737.
So I want to stop there because I think it is important to point out that a lot of these closer in markets, like SAT and MCI, are going to be too small to serve with a 737 size aircraft. However, if we can find an operator to utilize an ATR or Dash 8 aircraft, that would probably make them viable. Unfortunately there aren't many of those around anymore that would be able to operate the routes. Most are tied up in agreements with the majors or are simply all RJ which will probably have costs too high to sustain these markets.
Looking over things I'm not sure where OKC is really hoping to add service. To me it seems most of the additions might come on existing markets that won't really provide anything additional to the city. Of course it could work out like with WN/FL adding ATL and DL going all mainline to help boost additional capacity (and competition) on routes that have been served with RJs up until this point. LAX is one of those markets that could be targeted, WAS another, as well as NYC and CHI. Out of all of those however, only NYC is the one without multiple carriers operating on it.
s00nr1 07-26-2013, 11:45 AM Venture,
Wouldn't CLT be a possibility once the AA/US merger is complete?
HangryHippo 07-26-2013, 11:48 AM Venture,
Wouldn't CLT be a possibility once the AA/US merger is complete?
I'd love to see JFK added, but I doubt that happens even though I think it would be supported. I really would like to see JFK and either PHL or BOS added.
venture 07-26-2013, 11:55 AM Venture,
Wouldn't CLT be a possibility once the AA/US merger is complete?
I think it is pretty guaranteed we'll see CLT connected to a lot of AA only stations. We won't see any announcements or movements though until the merger closes next month. The time released in April hints that the code-share will hit pretty fast next month. I believe most flight numbers are already reassigned to allow them to mash them together quickly and just have "American Airlines operated by US Airways" until SOC occurs next year.
So I definitely see 2x daily service to CLT happening pretty quickly, at least by the end of next year. Hopefully I don't eat crow on that one. LOL
PHL we can hope for a single daily round trip, but that is a bit more uncertain. They will likely keep the strong international bank in there, so it would be good for us to have another option.
PHX I think is DOA and they won't bother trying it again.
DCA there is always hope, but it is going to come down to how many slots they'll be forced to sell off (to the highest bidder and smallest competitor of course).
|
|