Allegiant is using Gate 1, their ticket counter is between American and United, and they are using baggage claim number 3. (The old United one). Still unsure who is actually working their flights. (Gate, ticket, ramp)

This is kind of interesting. Not really Oklahoma related, but interesting.

'WICHITA, Kansas - A Boeing Dreamlifter cargo plane landed at the wrong airport in Wichita, Kansas Wednesday night. Now the question is, how will it take off?
CBS affiliate KWCH-TV in Wichita reports the converted Boeing 747 was scheduled to land at McConnell Air Force Base, but instead landed at the much smaller Col. James Jabara Airport at 9:20 p.m.

The smaller airport is located about nine miles north of McConnell.

Boeing says the Dreamlifter needs a runway 9,199 feet long to take off at maximum takeoff weight, and 7,000 feet to land at maximum landing weight. The runway length at Jabara is 6,101 feet.

Boeing released the following statement on the incident:

"A Dreamlifter bound for McConnell Air Force Base in Wichita safely landed this evening at nearby Col. James Jabara Airport instead. We are working to determine next steps and will have additional information in the morning."

Boeing says this Dreamlifter is owned by Atlas Cargo based in New York and had a crew of two on board. Van Williams, a spokesman for the city of Wichita, says the company is sending another crew from New York to fly the jet out of Jabara.

The Dreamlifter is based on the Boeing 747, but it was fitted with a much larger fuselage to carry large pieces of cargo. Boeing uses it to carry large parts for the 787 Dreamliner. It says the Dreamlifter's cargo hold is the largest in the world, by volume.

Williams says this Dreamlifter does have cargo on it'

Huge Boeing Cargo Jet Lands At Wrong Wichita Airport - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/24030988/big-boeing-cargo-jet-lands-at-wrong-wichita-airport)

It could probably take off into a very strong north wind that should be their now

Wow, yeah that's a problem.

My wife's uncle has a Challenger 600 that we've had the privilege of flying on a few times in and out of Jabara. Even that plane, when loaded with bags and a full passenger load, has to get to full power under braking to get out of Jabara. Granted, that's in the warmer summer months, but still.

I imagine they'll make this bird as bare bones as possible. Remove fuel, remove any cargo and go from there.

Never quite understand how these things happen... they had to of filed an IFR plan ...

I imagine they'll make this bird as bare bones as possible. Remove fuel, remove any cargo and go from there.

Never quite understand how these things happen... they had to of filed an IFR plan ...

ATC will often issue visual approaches if the pilot has the airport in sight. Sometimes the pilot reports the wrong airport.

I imagine they'll make this bird as bare bones as possible. Remove fuel, remove any cargo and go from there.

Never quite understand how these things happen... they had to of filed an IFR plan ...

Can't remove this cargo... too big.

Live video of the Dreamlifter: Live event from KIRO 7 Eyewitness News | www.kirotv.com (http://www.kirotv.com/videos/news/kiro-live-event-1/vt6Gk/)

Can't remove this cargo... too big.

Edit: Report from the ground reporter is that the a/c is empty now.

And they are off. :)

Edit: Report from the ground reporter is that the a/c is empty now.

Someone on the desk said it had some items in it... some national aviation news people I follow on Twitter said it had stabilizers and other parts in it.

Someone on the desk said it had some items in it... some national aviation news people I follow on Twitter said it had stabilizers and other parts in it.

Ahhh okay. At least it wasn't a fuselage section for the 787.

Did Allegiant fly OKC - LAS ever? recently?

Thought I flew them in the past, see they only fly to florida now...

I believe they did quite some time ago.

Yeah they did OKC-LAS several years ago. It was around the time when WN and US were doing it as well and just turned into a battle.

Diversion from DFW tonight...

AAL1677 (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL1677)B763 (http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B763)San Francisco Intl (KSFO (http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KSFO))04:41p08:06p
AAL1239 (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL1239)B738 (http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B738)Denver Intl (KDEN (http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KDEN))05:32p07:58p

Another decline:

http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/October%202013%20Activity.pdf

(Geniuses at OKC haven't posted the detailed numbers, probably forgot or got put to the back because of all of the hard work the PR department has been doing lately)

OU charter up to Manhattan today...

United (UA) #1824 ? FlightAware (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL1824)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZtcPN9CYAA8Tl4.jpg:large

Yup. And Baylor came in on a 737-900 and the OU basketball team flew out today also on United (express flight).

Any word in airport ops today? Hopefully not too many delays/cancellations. Would imagine Sunday being pretty heavy.

OU charter up to Manhattan today...

United (UA) #1824 ? FlightAware (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL1824)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZtcPN9CYAA8Tl4.jpg:large

Wow that's awesome. Have no idea how our linemen/linebackers, even taller players fit into standard Y class. Must be pure torture.

Any word in airport ops today? Hopefully not too many delays/cancellations. Would imagine Sunday being pretty heavy.

I just saw a couple cxl flights on AA into Dallas, but everything else appeared to be running close to scheduled times.

I just saw a couple cxl flights on AA into Dallas, but everything else appeared to be running close to scheduled times.

shocker, AA is the absolute worst at cancelling flights during weather ops. cancelled a flight for us OKC-DFW-PHX, rebooked us DFW-PHX, we had to drive to DFW, and then turns out when we got to the airport Saturday morning, our OKC-DFW still flew.

Delta cancelled flights For Friday morning I think. A good day before the storm actually came.

Happy Thanksgiving to the pilots/airline people. If that sounds like a joke, it's not. I appreciate you.

United is now waving change fees for pax traveling Thur, Fri and Sat.

Southwest is allowing free changes to reservations for Thurs and Friday from OKC and TUL.

The Frontier sale to Indigo is a done deal.
Denver Post - Frontier Airlines sale finalized to Indigo Partners LLC (http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_24646215/sale-frontier-airlines-is-finalized)
Denver Business Journal - Indigo Partners now owns Frontier Airlines (http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2013/12/03/indigo-partners-now-owns-frontier.html)

Spirit Jr inbound.

Southwest is allowing free changes to reservations for Thurs and Friday from OKC and TUL.

I assume you mean that they won't collect any fare differences between flights since they never charge change fees anyway.

I assume you mean that they won't collect any fare differences between flights since they never charge change fees anyway.

Correct.

Awhile back I asked about Allegiant to Vegas...

Figured out it was back in summer 2005.

:)

f OKC is going to truly thrive it has to do something to become more of a destination. Whether that be some brand new Theme Park, multiple casinos (something like Tunica) near downtown with the Ferris Wheel and all, or making Film Row become Hollywood East. Give those guys a reason to come here and make movies and save millions in filming costs. With tax incentives and lower production costs, why would they not?

My point is that we MUST create a demand or desire to come to our city. The things we are doing are good but not great, from the standpoint that we notice it but the vast majority of the country has no clue about OKC. We need demand and we need to build things like the HSR and have a route from DT to NW, Edmond to Norman and WRWA to DT. We need to expand our airport, add more gates and put out a welcome sign for a hub relocation and offer incentives to come here. We already train thousands of air traffic controlers at our airport. Our leaders need to make this a priority and watch this city take off and explode.

As for how to pay for it, the HSR can be added to maps. Yes, it is an additional tax but the rewards would be so worth it for this city. Also, it can expand to other suburbs to join in as well to help pay for the cost such as Edmond, Moore, and Norman. If you want to be big, you have to dream big and it's time we stop settling for mediocre or making excuses of why we can't do it. You strike when the iron is hot and this economy is good here now and doing this now will save millions compared to later.

Hubs in medium to small cities are going the way of the dodo bird. We won't get a hub just because we have gates.

Gate usage is not at capacity yet. It would be completely foolish to expand the terminal with more gates at this point in time.

Keep dreaming big Catch. Like I said, OKC needs to create a demand and a desire to come here. Whatever that may be, it needs to happen. When their is a demand, then of course the latter will have to happen. That is a more correct way to approach instead of the "whoa us, we just can't do it so lets be average mentality. Some people or cities wish they had it, while others go out and make it happen.

So another "build a hub in OKC" discussion? I would probably advise going back and reading the previous posts about why hubs are not going to work in medium markets anymore. As Catch said, gate utilization is no where near capacity yet.

Southwest tries to get 10 flights a day through one gate. OKC right now, combined with subsidiary AirTran, operate around 20 flights. They have 3 gates here which means they have room, per their scheduling habits, to add in 10 more flights. Hasn't happened. Frontier uses gate 2 and they only have 2 flights a day. A few other gates go unused most of the time right now. Where is this big hub going to come from? In case you haven't noticed there has been some consolidation among the network / hub and spoke carriers.

American/US Airways - DFW, CLT, PHL, ORD, DCA, MIA, JFK, LAX, PHX
United - ORD, SFO, DEN, IAH, IAD, and probably a couple others that they may qualify as a hub.
Delta - ATL, DTW, MSP, SLC, , and maybe LGA can be included

All of those cities have much higher demand than OKC and are significantly larger cities. Now this is an aviation thread so I'm not going to side track too much. However, HSR is not the same as commuter rail - so please recheck that. HSR is going to have a much higher cost than commuter rail and it is meant more for inter- and intra-state travel...not within a single metro area. A new theme park, casinos, etc...to do what? Attract low yield traffic that doesn't pay the bills? Tunica is mostly supported only by infrequent charters. Branson just lost Southwest service (eff in June). At some point reality needs to set in that copying what everyone else has already done is not going to cut it. A strong corporate base that has a significant requirement to air travel is the only thing that is going to really increase air service here. Right now though, we have a pretty healthy level...it could be a bit more based on the metro area of our size, but the flights aren't packed as it is out of here. If we aren't even using the service we have to its fullest potential, why would an airline add anything else in?

Lastly - who says we are mediocre? I'm glad we are a pretty decent city with a lot of neat features. I am also thankful we aren't bursting at the seems with a ton of people. If you want big city living or OKC on steroids - drive down I-35 for about 3 hours. I prefer the nice balance of some major city features with a smaller town feel.

Well said Venture. Realistically it should be OKC's eventual goal to have flights to all of the hubs you mentioned, plus maybe a regional flight or two with the right airline/aircraft someday (MCI and AUS for example).


American/US Airways - DFW, CLT, PHL, ORD, DCA, MIA, JFK, LAX, PHX
United - ORD, SFO, DEN, IAH, IAD and probably a couple others that they may qualify as a hub. CLE
Delta - ATL, DTW, MSP, SLC and maybe LGA can be included
Southwest - LAS, DAL, HOU, DEN, STL, MDW, BWI, ATL, PHX, MCI, AUS, BNA
Alaska - SEA
Frontier - DEN
Allegiant - MCO, LAS

Current non-stops from OKC

Well said Venture. Realistically it should be OKC's eventual goal to have flights to all of the hubs you mentioned, plus maybe a regional flight or two with the right airline/aircraft someday (MCI and AUS for example).


Southwest - LAS, DAL, HOU, DEN, STL, MDW, BWI, ATL, PHX, MCI, AUS, BNA
Alaska - SEA
Frontier - DEN
Allegiant - MCO, LAS

Current non-stops from OKC

I'm really quite curious to see if OKC gains additional flights to current US Airways hubs now that they're part of American. If we can get flights to all of the hubs, that'd work out okay.

I left off CLE since it is in one of those funky hub / focus city status areas right now...like CVG is with Delta.

I didn't put the others as I was just pointing out how few of the original legacies are left. :)

However, maybe its fair to do a quick run down on where we really sit. I will eventually do a market analysis again to post - probably when I do the year in review thing. Below are domestic hubs only since some airlines have international or offshore "hubs".

American Airlines / US Airways
Current Hub Service: DFW, LAX, ORD
No Current Hub Service: JFK, MIA, CLT, PHL, PHX

United Airlines
Current Hub Service: CLE, DEN, IAH, LAX, EWR, ORD, SFO, IAD
No Current Hub Service: none domestic

Delta Air Lines
Current Hub Service: DTW, ATL, MSP, SLC
No Current Hub Service: CVG, JFK, LGA

Southwest Airlines / AirTran
Current Service: MDW, LAS, BWI, DEN, ATL, PHX, HOU, DAL, STL
No Current Service: LAX, MCO, BNA, OAK, SAN

JetBlue Airways
No Current Service: JFK, FLL, BOS, LGB, MCO

Alaska Airlines
No Current Service: LAX, PDX, SEA, ANC

Spirit Airlines
No Current Service: ACY, DFW, DTW, ORD, LAS, FLL

Frontier Airlines
Current Hub Service: DEN
No Current Service: ILG & TTN are both focus cities now

Hawaiian Airlines
No Current Service: Obviously. :)

Allegiant Air
Current Service: SFB
No Current Service: BLI, PGD, FLL, HNL, LAX, LAS, OAK, PBI, IAW, MYR

Definitely a good amount of growth still available from the more prominent airlines out there right now.

Not-so-friendly skies: Tough to be a city left out of the large hubs | Mobile Washington Examiner (http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/not-so-friendly-skies-tough-to-be-a-city-left-out-of-the-large-hubs/article/2540443)

Not-so-friendly skies: Tough to be a city left out of the large hubs | Mobile Washington Examiner (http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/not-so-friendly-skies-tough-to-be-a-city-left-out-of-the-large-hubs/article/2540443)

The issues with it being the Washington Examiner aside (it's worth is equal to that of used toilet paper most of time)...the story really seems to be pulling OKC into a discussion that really hasn't hurt the airport that much. Outside of pre-deregulation and the lefts overs of it through the early 90s - OKC really isn't in that horrible of a position.

Since 2005, OKC's pax and cargo traffic is essentially flat to slight up. I could dig and go back even further, but that'll take some time. As far as connectivity to various markets, OKC really isn't doing that bad at all.

Who have we lost over the years? Since I've lived here in the late 90s it has been...
TWA: AAbsorbed by AA. Had service to STL.
RenoAir: AAbsorbed by AA. Had service to LAS.
US Airways: Pulled out. Had service to PHX and LAS.
Western Pacific: Bankrupt. Had service to COS and DEN.
Continental: Merged with United. No difference to destinations.
Northwest: Merged with Delta. Lost service to MEM.

All of those destinations except MEM and COS have service today. Then we had the point to point attempts by ExpressJet and Trans States that didn't go far. Overall though, OKC over the last few years has gained service to the West coast that was lacking, to the Washington area, to New York, and has seen G4 come in to fly to the Orlando area (replacing previously failed attempts by Southwest, Comair and Frontier).

I don't see why people have such a complex with air service from OKC. If you want more, fly more.

OKC will eventually grow into a current day AUS. Emphasis on the eventually. AUS is not a hub for anyone, but has a lot of flights by quite a few carriers to a lot of destinations.

OKC's growth is limited by the makeup of our market. Low fare vacation travelers, who will just drive to Dallas or go to the lake if they don't like the fare out of OKC. That's a big problem. When we get some larger businesses in the metro, we will see demand for the profitable flights increase.

We are not going to build up a 30 gate concourse and hope someone comes in and rents it. I will be the first person to go to council to protest such a waste of taxpayer money. In a few years I would support the East Concourse stub (2 standard gates plus one international gate). But not at the present day. I do think we will enter a period of stronger growth in the next couple of years.

Who have we lost over the years? Since I've lived here in the late 90s it has been...
TWA: AAbsorbed by AA. Had service to STL.
RenoAir: AAbsorbed by AA. Had service to LAS.
US Airways: Pulled out. Had service to PHX and LAS.
Western Pacific: Bankrupt. Had service to COS and DEN.
Continental: Merged with United. No difference to destinations.
Northwest: Merged with Delta. Lost service to MEM.


There was also Great Plains that offered service to COS, ABQ, TUL and BNA. OKC doesn't have any of those non-stops anymore.

There was also Great Plains that offered service to COS, ABQ, TUL and BNA. OKC doesn't have any of those non-stops anymore.

Yeah how could I forget about that mess. LOL

OKC will eventually grow into a current day AUS. Emphasis on the eventually. AUS is not a hub for anyone, but has a lot of flights by quite a few carriers to a lot of destinations.

OKC's growth is limited by the makeup of our market. Low fare vacation travelers, who will just drive to Dallas or go to the lake if they don't like the fare out of OKC. That's a big problem. When we get some larger businesses in the metro, we will see demand for the profitable flights increase.

We are not going to build up a 30 gate concourse and hope someone comes in and rents it. I will be the first person to go to council to protest such a waste of taxpayer money. In a few years I would support the East Concourse stub (2 standard gates plus one international gate). But not at the present day. I do think we will enter a period of stronger growth in the next couple of years.

Would be amazingly phenomenal if OKC even came close to AUS. OKC sadly is still light-years away from having a LHR nonstop though, which puts AUS in a different league altogether. You're completely right though that as long as more high-profile businesses continue to grow/relocate in OKC that our air service levels will only improve.

What's the PDEW for OKC-LHR compared to AUS-LHR?

I'm still somewhat surprised that British Airways will be flying that route, and only the 787 makes it possible. AUS has a lot of non-stops to the hubs (probably all or close to all of the list above) along with longer range flights to places like San Jose and Boston as well as a number of regional cities via Southwest like New Orleans and Nashville. But it isn't a hub and several larger metros without hubs don't have year-round transatlantic service like STL and PIT. I guess the tech industry there is a bigger draw than I originally thought.

For OKC, the only international service I see in the near future is a seasonal flight to Cancun. Maybe in the future there could be the possibility of Air Canada to Toronto. Several other cities in the tier above OKC like Kansas City, Nashville and Indianapolis have AC non-stops to YYZ.

Yeah, I don't see London (or Europe) possible for a very long time.

Besides Austin's international component, I could see OKC 2023 being AUS 2013.

What's the passenger loading from OKC to Calgary or some other international energy-related hub?

What's the passenger loading from OKC to Calgary or some other international energy-related hub?

I'm trying to see if I can find that. International O&D data isn't the easiest to locate, especially when the airport hasn't done a true market study.

What's the passenger loading from OKC to Calgary or some other international energy-related hub?

I know for a fact that there are private planes operated by Devon that fly out of Wiley Post at least twice a week that go there.

I know for a fact that there are private planes operated by Devon that fly out of Wiley Post at least twice a week that go there.

That's an angle I hadn't quite thought about...

Does CHK still have a BBJ/737?

That's an angle I hadn't quite thought about...

Does CHK still have a BBJ/737?

Not sure. That one might have left with Aubrey.

The issues with it being the Washington Examiner aside (it's worth is equal to that of used toilet paper most of time)...the story really seems to be pulling OKC into a discussion that really hasn't hurt the airport that much. Outside of pre-deregulation and the lefts overs of it through the early 90s - OKC really isn't in that horrible of a position.

Since 2005, OKC's pax and cargo traffic is essentially flat to slight up. I could dig and go back even further, but that'll take some time. As far as connectivity to various markets, OKC really isn't doing that bad at all.

Who have we lost over the years? Since I've lived here in the late 90s it has been...
TWA: AAbsorbed by AA. Had service to STL.
RenoAir: AAbsorbed by AA. Had service to LAS.
US Airways: Pulled out. Had service to PHX and LAS.
Western Pacific: Bankrupt. Had service to COS and DEN.
Continental: Merged with United. No difference to destinations.
Northwest: Merged with Delta. Lost service to MEM.

All of those destinations except MEM and COS have service today. Then we had the point to point attempts by ExpressJet and Trans States that didn't go far. Overall though, OKC over the last few years has gained service to the West coast that was lacking, to the Washington area, to New York, and has seen G4 come in to fly to the Orlando area (replacing previously failed attempts by Southwest, Comair and Frontier).

I don't see why people have such a complex with air service from OKC. If you want more, fly more.

Good post. It is ironic that the Tulsa World recently profiled both airports and basically stated how crappy their service has gotten compared to how much ours has improved. The grass is greener, I guess.

I can't really say I am totally familiar with the economics of airlines, but this who notion of that cities rise and fall with airline service is quite 90's and outdated. I did work for an economic development firm as my first internship/real world job. It was surprising to me how little air service came up as a need for relocating and expanding firms. If that was important to companies, they would not even be looking at a city the size of OKC, or Austin for that matter. Air service is but one factor companies look at, and our supposed lack of it didn't stop Boeing, GE, Terex, or any other company that has recently expanded here.

That's an angle I hadn't quite thought about...

Does CHK still have a BBJ/737?

Devon has 3 planes, they fly out of a hangar at Will Rogers.

Chesapeake uses Netjets for their corporate flying, they were the primary customer for Atlantic Aviation at WRWA and one of the main reasons Atlantic opened at WRWA.

Chesapeake also used to charter with Continental Airlines (and that contract moved to United through the merger) every Tuesday and Thursday. An ERJ was provided... But that no longer happens for obvious reasons.

Tuesday: Shreveport-OKC-Elmira NY

Thursday: Elmira-OKC-Shreveport.

They chartered that flight whether they needed it or not that week. It often only went out with 5-10 people on it. It operated from the main concourse, usually Gate 9.

Devon has 3 planes, they fly out of a hangar at Will Rogers.

Chesapeake uses Netjets for their corporate flying, they were the primary customer for Atlantic Aviation at WRWA and one of the main reasons Atlantic opened at WRWA.

Chesapeake also used to charter with Continental Airlines (and that contract moved to United through the merger) every Tuesday and Thursday. An ERJ was provided... But that no longer happens for obvious reasons.

Tuesday: Shreveport-OKC-Elmira NY

Thursday: Elmira-OKC-Shreveport.

They chartered that flight whether they needed it or not that week. It often only went out with 5-10 people on it. It operated from the main concourse, usually Gate 9.

I thought they used a BBJ/737 too - I had friends who used it to fly to the West Virginia HQ, for instance.

It's possible they leased or rented one. They made it a point to not own aircraft.

It's possible they leased or rented one. They made it a point to not own aircraft.

Smart.

My company still owns a Cessna 182... only one person still has a license and uses it. We used to have quite a few people internally that had licenses and flew it around the Great Plains.

AA makes purchase for CRJ-900's and EMB-175'S to replace CRJ-200s.

Respectable size aircraft replacement for the -200's.

A) So would this mean less frequency into LAW with larger aircraft ?

B? Or, could we see more frequency into OKC/TUL w/ smaller size aircraft compared to the MD-80 replacement since I assume the MD-80 will be gone by the time these planes enter the fleet

Or C)...neither :)

Dang, forgot to include the article

American Airlines Announces Large Regional Jet Purchase :: American Airlines Newsroom (http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/pressrelease/american-airlines-announces-large-regional-jet-purchase)