Different weather challenges. Ice storms are essentially unheard of in Denver (<1 freezing rain day per year on average). While ice storms do occur in Dallas, they are only about 2/3rds as likely there as they are in central Oklahoma.

Serious question - is there no heating element they could embed to help battle the icing on the flyover ramps? Does anything like that exist?

Serious question - is there no heating element they could embed to help battle the icing on the flyover ramps? Does anything like that exist?

I know FHWA has studied various methods. Most were unsuccessful (they would break, or trained personnel couldn't be kept on staff to monitor or maintain the system, etc..), but some systems did work for a time. Don't know if they were considered cost-effective or not. If you think about it, a bridge heating system is going to be outside the typical remit of a state DOT, and my guess is that's why these sorts of systems haven't been widely deployed.

Different weather challenges. Ice storms are essentially unheard of in Denver (<1 freezing rain day per year on average). While ice storms do occur in Dallas, they are only about 2/3rds as likely there as they are in central Oklahoma.

So OKC is just special again. No other city is like it or has problems and this can't be built in OKC because of that.

Chicago is also getting a five stack in their downtown. I believe Minneapolis/St. Paul area has one. Reno, Nevada might be getting one. Kansas city has one. Milwaukee has one. Columbus, Ohio has one. Atlanta has them. Nashville has a couple four levels. St. Louis has them. Springfield, Missouri is getting one. Little Rock, Arkansas is getting one. Baton Rouge has one. New York City has one and several other notable flyovers.

Four levels aren't much different than five levels though with more ramps, the height will usually be the same unless it's an ambitious interchange like the high-five. I just don't buy into the "winter will make it impossible" line. OKC is not unique in how many ice storms it gets and I have lived in Dallas and experienced more ice storms there than I did in OKC. It would be like any other bridge in the state that usually gets taken care of the next morning with salt after an ice storm happens.

So OKC is just special again. No other city is like it or has problems and this can't be built in OKC because of that.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data". Incidentally, for those who are interested, ice storms are most common in the northeast US, with a secondary max in the Midwest (OH/IN/IL), and a tertiary max in Oklahoma's vicinity. I won't speculate on the differences between ice storm impacts in regions accustomed to larger amounts of other wintry precipitation than Oklahoma.

Of course, like any other decision in transportation infrastructure, the decision of what sort of interchange to build requires a cost-benefit analysis. The High Five sees half a million cars per day. The Dallas and Amarillo Junctions each see somewhere in the neighborhood of half that, or less. The 39th Expressway/Hefner Pkwy/Will Rogers Pkwy has less than either of those, and the Belle Isle Bridge and NW Expressway is 20% or less of the volume of the High Five. For reference, the High Five was $260 million in the early 2000s (roughly $280 million today). The most expensive ODOT interchange (which includes multiple bidded contracts), is the I-235/I-44 rebuild, at about $150 million over 10 years. (Most expensive overall project is the I-40 Crosstown, almost $600 million in today's dollars, but it consists of ~5 miles of roadway and something like 5 or 6 interchanges, depending on how you count them.)

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data". Incidentally, for those who are interested, ice storms are most common in the northeast US, with a secondary max in the Midwest (OH/IN/IL), and a tertiary max in Oklahoma's vicinity. I won't speculate on the differences between ice storm impacts in regions accustomed to larger amounts of other wintry precipitation than Oklahoma.

Of course, like any other decision in transportation infrastructure, the decision of what sort of interchange to build requires a cost-benefit analysis. The High Five sees half a million cars per day. The Dallas and Amarillo Junctions each see somewhere in the neighborhood of half that, or less. The 39th Expressway/Hefner Pkwy/Will Rogers Pkwy has less than either of those, and the Belle Isle Bridge and NW Expressway is 20% or less of the volume of the High Five. For reference, the High Five was $260 million in the early 2000s (roughly $280 million today). The most expensive ODOT interchange (which includes multiple bidded contracts), is the I-235/I-44 rebuild, at about $150 million over 10 years. (Most expensive overall project is the I-40 Crosstown, almost $600 million in today's dollars, but it consists of ~5 miles of roadway and something like 5 or 6 interchanges, depending on how you count them.)

So now you're changing from ice storms to traffic counts.

Out of every single example I gave you of a four or five stack, you choose the High-five, one of the most ambitious engineering marvels regarding highway construction in the 21st century, as well as being in one of the largest cities I listed, to use for traffic counts VS. roads in OKC. Gotcha.

Hopefully when the Kilpatrick/SH-74 flyovers are completed, we will have a full 4 stack instead of a half 4 stack.

I want to add to this, I'm not trying to be argumentative here with you, it is just the same old excuse, "ICE STORMS!!!!!!!!" get's really old.

BTW, Amarillo is getting 2 four to five stack interchanges. Surely the traffic counts aren't that much higher than OKC's.

Springfield, Missouri is getting one.


Kind of curious where they're getting one. Springfield is tiny compared to everything else you're talking about. I can't think of a place one would make sense, except maybe on the SE corner of town. And my guess is it would be dictated by the geography of the area more than anything.

Kind of curious where they're getting one. Springfield is tiny compared to everything else you're talking about. I can't think of a place one would make sense, except maybe on the SE corner of town. And my guess is it would be dictated by the geography of the area more than anything.

It's a four stack. Not fully completed yet. Almost the same status as the Hefner Parkway/Kilpatrick Tollway interchange.

I believe they are getting one or perhaps even two along the SH 65 and 60.

It's a four stack. Not fully completed yet. Almost the same status as the Hefner Parkway/Kilpatrick Tollway interchange.

I believe they are getting one or perhaps even two along the SH 65 and 60.

There should only be the one that is partially complete on the SE side of Springfield at the junction of US60 and US65. Although there is room for one at the I44/US65 junction, I doubt traffic counts justify more than the one flyover already built (NB 65 to WB 44)

There should only be the one that is partially complete on the SE side of Springfield at the junction of US60 and US65. Although there is room for one at the I44/US65 junction, I doubt traffic counts justify more than the one flyover already built (NB 65 to WB 44)

It isn't fully finished, right? Last time I saw, they had nubs extending out on a couple of the ramps for future connections.

New signs to alert slow drivers to stay the hell out of the left lane are coming in January.


At its Tuesday, Sept. 6 meeting, the Oklahoma Transportation Commission approved a planned Oklahoma Department of Transportation project to place signs on I-35 and I-40 statewide to encourage motorists to use the right lane and not impede left lane traffic. The project to install these signs will use federal funds and is expected to go to bid in early 2017.

- https://ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=277&article_id=25261

http://www.odot.org/newsmedia/press/2016/16-042-2.jpg

New 8yr plan out

Here is the map to OKC metro: http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/cwp-8-year-plan/8_year_cwp_maps/8_year_cwp_division4_map.pdf

I want to add, it appears the first phases of what I hope is the I-44/I-40 reconstruction begin in 2024. That is a long ways away, but hopefully the economy will stabilize, Hilary Clinton will win and add new funding towards highways as she has said, and maybe this will be pushed up! haha

This interchange isn't in dire need such as accidents that occur on 240/35 and 44/235, but it sure would be nice to have a nice shiny five stack for people passing through to see in OKC.

They are also finally widening I-35 between I44 and I40.

New 8yr plan out

Here is the map to OKC metro: http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/cwp-8-year-plan/8_year_cwp_maps/8_year_cwp_division4_map.pdf

Horrible bottleneck east/west north/south bound I-40 & I-44. Something needs to be done about this. It's maddening! These bridges need to have twice as many lanes. Esp west bound I-40 over 44.

Horrible bottleneck east/west north/south bound I-40 & I-44. Something needs to be done about this. It's maddening! These bridges need to have twice as many lanes. Esp west bound I-40 over 44.

In a perfect world it would be nice to see them continue the 10 lanes to Yukon with 2 of those being HOV lanes. But I agree, these new bridges can't come soon enough. I really hope ODOT will remove the left exits and move them to the right side of the road and use flyovers.

Though traffic was a breeze compared to LA, I did notice a lot more congestion happening around the metro than there used to be and the trend is only getting worse. So enjoy the low traffic while it's there(or not there). :)

Horrible bottleneck east/west north/south bound I-40 & I-44. Something needs to be done about this. It's maddening! These bridges need to have twice as many lanes. Esp west bound I-40 over 44.

Most of the time traffic is not flowing smoothly there though the bridges are not the main issue, the issue is usually a car wreck or i44 is jammed from roughly the airport up to where Hefner Parkway splits off it (or further one or both directions); how wide the bridges are makes little difference in either case. Occasionally the i40 westbound off ramps get so full that it begins to slow the average speed of i40, again not something the bridge width alone would help.

I hope you're right, it would be nice to see a completely new I40/I44 interchange. Not sure that's what we are going to get based on past history though. On the I240/I35 and I44/I235 interchanges wasn't there some public involvement meetings to discuss potential build out before those projects were added to the 8 year plan? I would figure the public involvement would happen first to determine the final option before costs/schedules were added to the plan, but that's just me. Still nice to hope for the best though!

I hope you're right, it would be nice to see a completely new I40/I44 interchange. Not sure that's what we are going to get based on past history though. On the I240/I35 and I44/I235 interchanges wasn't there some public involvement meetings to discuss potential build out before those projects were added to the 8 year plan? I would figure the public involvement would happen first to determine the final option before costs/schedules were added to the plan, but that's just me. Still nice to hope for the best though!

I'm guessing that there wasn't one because it doesn't affect surrounding neighborhoods like many of the other projects that ODOT has meetings for (no additional ROW).

Douglas/I-40 interchange meeting was held and here are the alternatives

Alternative 1:


Alternative 1 - Single Point Urban Interchange (SPUI) -- A Single Point Urban Interchange is a basic diamond interchange with a single signalized central intersection in the center of the bridge. The Douglas Boulevard traffic along with the I-40 ramp traffic will converge to a single point utilizing the single set of traffic signals. The SPUI interchange accommodates large traffic volumes efficiently with minimal right-of-way impacts. I-40 will be improved to a six-lane facility. Through the interchange, Douglas Boulevard will consist of six through lanes, dual left-turn lanes, and right-turn lanes where needed. Entrance and exit ramp lanes will also be constructed along I-40. Collector-distributor roads will be removed and will not be re-constructed. See attached graphic of SPUI.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/RkcMYr1OY_fLqBsOr3DmrxU3VbNrRiznq-BhvxjiA32oEsiNvqWJ-U3LIfpKQp_tJ8TTOQksIIE7O1I=w1920-h925-rw

Alternative 2:


Alternative 2 - Tight Urban Diamond Interchange (TUDI) with Ramp Flyover – A Tight Urban Diamond Interchange is an interchange that compresses a standard diamond interchange. This design includes all four interchange ramps, as well as the option of adding a future flyover ramp for northbound Douglas Boulevard traffic destined for westbound I-40. The compressed interchange with the ramp flyover accommodates large traffic volumes efficiently by removing a heavy left turn movement from the interchange and the resulting footprint requires minimal right-of-way. I-40 will be improved to a six-lanes facility. Through the interchange, Douglas Boulevard will consist of six through lanes, dual left-turn lanes, and right-turn lanes where needed. Upon construction of the northbound to westbound ramp flyover, the northbound to westbound left-turn lanes on Douglas will be removed. Entrance and exit ramp lanes will also be constructed along I-40. Collector-distributor roads will be removed and will not be re-constructed. See attached graphic of TUDI.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/T0wOe8bCSm1pyB0gvG9ekH6tNETkMqcgxQAEZyI7WhOS1taw8b 6uwk7I2WK7AzeGQsWiA2QXhfVWXhY=w1920-h925-rw

Alternative 3:


Alternative 3 - Cloverleaf Interchange – The existing cloverleaf will be completely reconstructed to accommodate widening I-40 to a six-lane facility. All ramps and both collector-distributor roads will be reconstructed. Through the interchange, Douglas Boulevard will consist of four through lanes, two lanes for loop ramp weaving, two additional lanes located in the median which can be used in the future for left turning traffic, and entrance and exit lanes where needed. Entrance and exit ramp lanes will also be constructed along I-40. See attached graphic of the new cloverleaf.


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/b7YZP3Y59TDSvMztZAZjk0Z3xmeIACT4lgYO41c3BWljRZIYha fuN2g-Bq3oBQSq_XrrwtY1fDAjpi4=w1920-h925-rw

ODOT: https://www.ok.gov/odot/Programs_and_Projects/Public_Meetings_and_Hearings/20170117.html

I prefer Alt. 2 as the flyover would allow for more efficient movements although it should be noted they flyover isn't guaranteed just something ODOT said was possible in the future. That being said I either go with Alt. 2 as my first choice or Alt. 1 as second. I'm not fan of the cloverleaf because I hate cloverleafs and the fact that Douglas won't be six dedicate through lanes as it should.

Guthrie Viaduct project starts construction next week.

https://ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=277&article_id=28695

I will be keeping my eye on this project. I'd love to see I-35 expanded to 10 lanes from DTOKC to Norman which would allow that freeway to not have to be touched for another 50+ years.

That isn't going to happen anytime soon however and it appears ODOT is proposing improvements from 5th St. in Moore to Main St. in Norman. They recently completed several various improvements in along this stretch of I-35.

Aside from any mainline capacity increases, here is my wish list. I'd like to see service roads made one way and Texas turnarounds added at each light. I'd like to see right hand flyovers for Shields and Flood Ave. interchanges. I'd like the Shields/I-35 interchange to have the entire thing reconstructed, but I would keep the Flood Ave. ramps for future HOV direct connects(whenever HOV lanes are added to I-35).

I'd like to see SH-37 interchange realigned and straightened. SW 19th St bridge needs to be expanded for six through lanes and ODOT really wanted to do a good job they could add a flyover for east bound 19th St. traffic wanting to take north bound I-35. Both of those interchanges should have Texas turnaround.

If they do propose to completely reconstruct the SW 4th interchange, I will be excited to see the proposals. That could make for a very expensive and complex interchange depending on how ODOT wants to go about it.

They do include the future SW 34th St. bridge which I think preliminary work starts this year on that.

I'd also like to see auxiliary lanes added from SW 4th to SW 19th. Nearly every Exit and on ramp needs extended merging room.

A big one is they will unveil the alternatives for Indian Hills Rd. Bridge replacement. That thing is a clusterf@ck along with the Robinson interchange. Both of those will need serious reconstruction and reconfiguration projects if one way service roads are proposed.

This could make for an exciting project though even without any mainline widenings it could still be a fairly significant undertaking and might warrant its own thread. I'll keep my eyes peeled on this one.

Here is the link from the PR: https://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=277&article_id=31275

The meeting is set for April 27th which all of the presented material will be available.

Here is the meeting packet info:


The purpose of this study is to identify possible improvements for all roadway users that increase capacity, safety, access, and connectivity. Goals of the study include: understanding traffic operations and potential for improvements within the existing footprint, improving frontage road functionality, optimizing interchange efficiency and safety, providing appropriate local access and connectivity to the supporting roadway network, and reducing the number of accidents within the corridor.

As part of our efforts to keep the public informed of this study and obtain public input, a Public Open House has been scheduled for Thursday, April 27, 2017 from 4 PM to 7 PM at The Station at Central Park, 700 S. Broadway, Moore, Oklahoma. The purpose of the Open House is to inform the public of the purpose and goals of the study and obtain public input on problems and potential solutions within the study corridor. The Open House will be a come and go event, no formal presentation will be conducted. Informational boards and displays will be available for the public to review and provide input. Study team members will be on hand to assist and answer questions from the public

https://www.ok.gov/odot/Programs_and_Projects/Public_Meetings_and_Hearings/20170427.html

PS, the stretch from of I-35 in Edmond is under study as well. Similarly, they are looking at one way service road conversions and a possible extension of the service roads to at least Covell(maybe Waterloo I can't remember). Edmond paid for the study with a surplus of tax revenue a couple years back.

I have nothing about this study however I believe it would be much less complex than the one the stretch in the south metro. Most of the infrastructure in place would only have to be slightly realigned with the stretch between Danforth and Second St. being the exception as that portion will be a little more complex. Danforth bridge needs to be reconstructed and Second St. in Edmond needs to be expanded to six lanes which is my understanding they are eying. The only other six lane expansion of an arterial road I know of being considered in the entire state is Classen St. in Norman. I know ODOT is adding some lanes to Douglas as part of the interchange reconstruction project there.

ODOT also has plans to widen and completely reconstruct I-35 to six lanes from 2nd St. in Edmond to SH-51 in Stillwater. It isn't funded, but I was hoping they would at least add the widening of I-35 from 2nd St. to Waterloo to the 8 year plan update this year. In all honesty I was only expecting the ROW or utility portion of that small project to be added not the actual construction of the widening, but with the current budget problems, I don't even see that in far I'm worried some projects might fall off.

ODOT is going to be facing some serious problems due to sprawl in the coming years and it will be made much worse with the fact that they are facing budget cuts when they should be adding billions to their measley budget. Just to name a couple you need to add several ramps in North Edmond. East I-40 is a joke in the metro. Though they current have plans to widen and reconstruct it, that could get pushed back. I-44 in South OKC is becoming more congested. I-44 Belle Isle bridge is in pretty dire need for replacement. New freeway loops are becoming more and more need around Norman and Edmond.

If anyone has been paying attention, the OTA recently changed the plan for the EOC Loop connection at I-40 to allow for the freeway to completely pass over I-40 to continue south for 100 feet or so. This shows me they intend on connecting to I-35 hopefully sooner rather than later. Though a loop in Northeast Edmond is decades away from being needed, I do wish they would plan for that as well.

ODOT has a lot to tackle in just the OKC metro and that doesn't include the other billions of dollars needed for the the Tulsa and Lawton metros.

I will be keeping my eye on this project. I'd love to see I-35 expanded to 10 lanes from DTOKC to Norman which would allow that freeway to not have to be touched for another 50+ years.

They said in an article in the Oklahoman they said widening isn't a viable option but the rest of your ideas would be great.

http://www.oklahoman.com/public-input-sought-on-i-35-corridor-in-moore-norman/article/5546581

I read that and it is complete BS to be honest. At least for the reasons they gave. Now in terms of costs, yes, I would rather see the money go elsewhere at this time before they embark on a widening, but they have the space for it.

I mistakenly thought that this was a proposal but it the launch of a study and we won't see any official alternatives for a couple years now.

But what we do know for sure for I-35 in South OKC is that the Indian Hills Interchange is being replaced, a new bridge is going over 34th ST. in Moore, they are getting close to completing the SH-9/Lindsey interchange project & widening, a phase two of the SH-9 project for the interchange south of river is scheduled(details haven't been released), and finally they plan to widen I-35 from four to six lanes from Canadian River to SH-74 as well as reconstructing that interchange there. I believe the last two don't have construction funding identified in the current 8 year plan(only ROW and design).

So they do have a fair amount of projects for I-35 in South OKC and that isn't including the 240 interchange project. I predict we will see service road reworks for sure and possibly some added auxiliary lanes or extended merging lanes. I'm hoping for some new interchanges and maybe they'll add on/off ramps to the future SW 34th St. bridge because the current plans don't call for that but Moore has shown they want to connect it in the near future.

I-35 in the south metro is as wide as it will ever be (and the same is true for many other highways). Twenty-five years from now there will be enough autonomous cars on the road that we'll be wondering why we have as many lane-miles as we do.

I-35 in the south metro is as wide as it will ever be (and the same is true for many other highways). Twenty-five years from now there will be enough autonomous cars on the road that we'll be wondering why we have as many lane-miles as we do.

Im not so sure... I hope I'm wrong, but I think autonomous cars might not curtail sprawl and could even accelerate it. People might be able to live further out since they can commute in private without having to drive. Will the number of autos fall in this scenario? Maybe but maybe not. Will wide highways and more roads be attractive in this scenario? Absolutely.

Im not so sure... I hope I'm wrong, but I think autonomous cars might not curtail sprawl and could even accelerate it. People might be able to live further out since they can commute in private without having to drive. Will the number of autos fall in this scenario? Maybe but maybe not. Will wide highways and more roads be attractive in this scenario? Absolutely.

I think he is referring to the efficiency of autonomous cars in that you wouldn't need 10 lane roads because autonomous cars would plan more efficient routes and not wait until the last minute to get into their lane. This of course is only when the majority of the cars on the roads are autonomous.

I don't see not having 10 lane roads as being the problem. Its getting cars off of and onto interstates that's the problem.

Im not so sure... I hope I'm wrong, but I think autonomous cars might not curtail sprawl and could even accelerate it. People might be able to live further out since they can commute in private without having to drive. Will the number of autos fall in this scenario? Maybe but maybe not. Will wide highways and more roads be attractive in this scenario? Absolutely.

You saying this reminds me of a conversation I heard recently. I can't remember the specifics of the conversation, but I recall autonomous cars being the subject. There was a point made towards autonomous cars enabling you to focus on essential things (i.e. work) while commuting instead of fighting with traffic. The comment was along the lines of "instead of living 30 minutes from work, they (autonomous cars) will allow you to live 60 minutes from work." That's not a direct quote, but the point made seemed to align with your thoughts about the vehicles expediting sprawl.

I think he is referring to the efficiency of autonomous cars in that you wouldn't need 10 lane roads because autonomous cars would plan more efficient routes and not wait until the last minute to get into their lane. This of course is only when the majority of the cars on the roads are autonomous.

This is mostly what I mean. AVs may allow (or even encourage) people to live further out, but in this context I'm more concerned about overbuilt infrastructure. Extra lanes, longer entrance/exit ramps, etc. are a function of the slow reaction times/poor decision making abilities of human drivers. With a computer behind the wheel, you can optimize land use and traffic control (merging and more) in really interesting ways.

Incidentally, from a sprawl perspective, people may tend to live further out in the AV scenario, but the land use in their neighborhoods and around their homes may still change substantially. It's easy to draw an analogy between a reduction in highway/road lane-miles and square footage devoted to parking. If your AV can pick you up when you're done at the Post Office, does the Post Office still need 100 parking spaces? Does the bank, does CVS, do fast rood restaurants...? I don't know the answers, but it's fascinating to speculate about.

I-35 in the south metro is as wide as it will ever be (and the same is true for many other highways). Twenty-five years from now there will be enough autonomous cars on the road that we'll be wondering why we have as many lane-miles as we do.I completely disagree.

This is mostly what I mean. AVs may allow (or even encourage) people to live further out, but in this context I'm more concerned about overbuilt infrastructure. Extra lanes, longer entrance/exit ramps, etc. are a function of the slow reaction times/poor decision making abilities of human drivers. With a computer behind the wheel, you can optimize land use and traffic control (merging and more) in really interesting ways.
We never have problems with computers... no glitches... no freezes... no unexpected shutdowns...

We never have problems with computers... no glitches... no freezes... no unexpected shutdowns...

Yeah, I'm not sold on autonomous vehicles and I'm not sure the general public will buy into it either. It only takes a mistroke to make a line of code bad and then that creates a domino affect of things going wrong from there. Plus, from what I've heard and read, laws will require you to still have to be pay attention to the road and not working or playing on devices etc. If you want to work on your commute to work, take a train or have someone else drive.

Jeremy Clarkson pointed out what I thought was an interesting thought on Top Gear a year or two ago. In talking about autonomous vehicles he said that since the vehicle can't control pedestrians and they could still, without warning, step in front of a vehicle, the time would eventually come for the vehicle to make the decision to kill you or the pedestrian. That's a bit simplified, but you can never account for everything and code a computer for those eventualities. Removing the human decision making process is a slippery slope.

Autonomous vehicles sound good in theory, but the execution is going to be the problem.

Seems to me the question isn't "are AVs safe?" but "are AVs safer than human drivers?"

Seems to me the question isn't "are AVs safe?" but "are AVs safer than human drivers?"
It depends on how intelligent, safe and fast AV's can dodge stupid mistakes made by human drivers.

Seems to me the question isn't "are AVs safe?" but "are AVs safer than human drivers?"

Right. I am sure there are going to be accidents, some deadly, however once every vehicle is using AV the accidents are going to be far far fewer than current.

Besides driverless cars which will likely have little effect on roads and freeways for the next 5 years and likely much longer, OKDOT will be facing budget cuts that could yet again drag out projects and the 235/44 project is mentioned.

http://m.newsok.com/article/5547324

Besides driverless cars which will likely have little effect on roads and freeways for the next 5 years and likely much longer, OKDOT will be facing budget cuts that could yet again drag out projects and the 235/44 project is mentioned.

http://m.newsok.com/article/5547324

Good - maybe then ODOT can use their funds to rebuild/repair the roads we actually need, rather than build a bunch of boulevards we don't.

The boulevard is happening whether or not you like it. The freeways you don't like are getting built regardless. It will just take longer.

The boulevard is happening whether or not you like it. The freeways you don't like are getting built regardless. It will just take longer.

Well yeah, this Boulevard is happening; it's already half built.

The hope is that if they have less money then maybe in the future they just won't be able to afford to majorly screw up our downtown.

ODOT also has plans to widen and completely reconstruct I-35 to six lanes from 2nd St. in Edmond to SH-51 in Stillwater. It isn't funded, but I was hoping they would at least add the widening of I-35 from 2nd St. to Waterloo to the 8 year plan update this year. In all honesty I was only expecting the ROW or utility portion of that small project to be added not the actual construction of the widening, but with the current budget problems, I don't even see that in far I'm worried some projects might fall off.



It would also be nice to build a new two lane bridge along side the old one across the Cimarron River near Langston on Highway 33, so the four lanes can resume from there to meet up where Highway 33 becomes 5 lanes west of Perkins for a distance of around 9 miles. Many people in Stillwater, especially those living on the east side and downtown area prefer that route to I-35 when going to Oklahoma City.

Well yeah, this Boulevard is happening; it's already half built.

The hope is that if they have less money then maybe in the future they just won't be able to afford to majorly screw up our downtown.I am not a fan of the Boulevard either nor am I fan of ODOT. I see OkDOT as a very backwards agency with a very small town mentality of what they reach for. That being said, hoping they go bankrupt because of one project is very foolish. The economy would collapse if the freeways fell into disrepair and almost everyone would move out of the state.

It would also be nice to build a new two lane bridge along side the old one across the Cimarron River near Langston on Highway 33, so the four lanes can resume from there to meet up where Highway 33 becomes 5 lanes west of Perkins for a distance of around 9 miles. Many people in Stillwater, especially those living on the east side and downtown area prefer that route to I-35 when going to Oklahoma City.

I've heard about that. I'd even like to see that road turned into a freeway/Expressway one day as a more direct route to Stillwater.

OTC did go ahead and vote to suspend work on several major projects in their meeting yesterday:

http://newsok.com/article/5547574

The $88 million contract to widen I-235 to six lanes from N 36th Street to just north of N 50th Street is one of those that may yet be suspended. That project, which includes the replacement of an overhead railroad bridge and highway bridge, has been causing traffic disruptions for months. Suspension of the contract could extend those disruptions.

I hope they don't suspend this project. That truly is the symbol of a failed state if we have an unfinished road project sitting idle.

I hope they don't suspend this project. That truly is the symbol of a failed state if we have an unfinished road project sitting idle.

It's not suspended yet, but is on a list of projects that's being scrutinized to see what they can suspend after this batch. Complete and unethical O&G pandering idiots running this state, they need to quit this penny-ante crap and raise the O&G production tax...

I am not a fan of the Boulevard either nor am I fan of ODOT. I see OkDOT as a very backwards agency with a very small town mentality of what they reach for. That being said, hoping they go bankrupt because of one project is very foolish. The economy would collapse if the freeways fell into disrepair and almost everyone would move out of the state.

Can't believe I actually agree with you. You're exactly right - their small-town mentality of not realizing that most human beings are blessed with two feet to use for transportation has led to most of their absurd projects such as the Boulevard. Until they realize that not everywhere wants to be Edmond, this is what we're stuck with.

Well yeah, this Boulevard is happening; it's already half built.

The hope is that if they have less money then maybe in the future they just won't be able to afford to majorly screw up our downtown.

More likely you'll have incidents like we had in 2004, when a chunk of concrete came off the SH-145 bridge and killed someone driving underneath on I-35.

So now we have every major OkDOT project in OKC looking at being suspended.

So now we have every major OkDOT project in OKC looking at being suspended.
Anyway, one reason why oil companies should pay their fair share in taxes is because their heavy vehicles put a lot of wear and tear on roads. Maybe legislators who take money from oil companies would disagree that is true.

If Oklahoma was a well governed state, more and more people moving into the state would not work out meaning less money available for the highway system.

Oklahomans almost always vote back in legislators who have been cutting taxes and funding. So don't be surprised if those legislators think they have been doing something right. I wouldn't be shocked if the majority of the people who voted for them think they did something right, too.

The state really doesn't seem interested in doing anything about the reform as they keep voting down almost any proposal that will generate serious revenue. The sessions coming to an end.

On a side note, it does appear that some steam is being lost across the state. What's with the major lack of new project announcements lately? Quick check on the news board reveals a Target remodel and a new community space center in Bricktown. At least for the time being we have some cool things under construction and a few nice things proposed, but that will only last for about 3-5 years which before you know it will be gone. I sure hope OKC sees some new cool announcements soon.

I sure am not hopeful in the least bit for any cool freeway projects in the metro as I'm worried about the ones the actually under construction. Road projects are good to be optimistic about as the GoBond will the biggest one yet and MAPS is being looked at for road improvements which might or might not go over well with the residents of OKC. I have a feeling it might be a good thing.

I think the entirety of Norman and OU fandom may march straight to the Capitol if the Lindsey Street project is halted and the bridge remains closed indefinitely.

I think the entirety of Norman and OU fandom may march straight to the Capitol if the Lindsey Street project is halted and the bridge remains closed indefinitely.

That was a tactical and smart threat to make the legislature get off their ass.

It's really, really lousy for those Norman merchants.

This needs to be resolved and very quickly.

I've always tried to be optimistic about this state, but it's getting harder and harder.

I've always tried to be optimistic about this state, but it's getting harder and harder.

Let's see how it all shakes out before we start this again. Politics is a messy everywhere. They've got time to fix it still.

Let's see how it all shakes out before we start this again. Politics is a messy everywhere. They've got time to fix it still.

For reasons I'm simply not able to fathom, it seems everyone is operating under a resigned assumption that Fallin will call a special session for the revenue/budget situation. Nothing's happening right now.

I think the 800 lb gorilla in the room is the realization that *somebody's* ox is gonna get gored. Someone's taxes are going up, someones fees are going up, and likely severely. And no one is going to want to have their name featured as the one who sharpened the harpoon on any such legislation.

I think any project that is already started should be completed even if it means a special emergency funding measure.

For reasons I'm simply not able to fathom, it seems everyone is operating under a resigned assumption that Fallin will call a special session for the revenue/budget situation. Nothing's happening right now.

I think the 800 lb gorilla in the room is the realization that *somebody's* ox is gonna get gored. Someone's taxes are going up, someones fees are going up, and likely severely. And no one is going to want to have their name featured as the one who sharpened the harpoon on any such legislation.
If that's what it comes too so be it.

I think they'd be surprised what would happen if tax increases went to the ballot.

Let's see how it all shakes out before we start this again. Politics is a messy everywhere. They've got time to fix it still.

I agree and totally get that, but it just seems like it's on going. Everytime I see some poll we are at the bottom if it's a good poll or at the top if it's a bad poll. I used to think those areas were always for your states like Mississippi. Things aren't that bad here. Well I think the news flash is we are in that same boat.

It's really, really lousy for those Norman merchants.

This needs to be resolved and very quickly.isnt that due to the Lindsay St. project from the city of Norman? If so, that won't be affected by this. I'm sure the businesses could stand to have this bridge opened, but I'm willing to guess the city streetscape project is hurting them more than anything right now though that should pay off in higher property values.

If even Lindsey re-opens they will continue to get clobbered without a way on and off the freeway.