There are a lot more in the area along Highway 9 than along Tecumseh in North Norman.



That's a pretty shallow viewpoint and likely not true. If you get North of Robinson and West of I-35...the population numbers really start to fall off. Your core is much further south and east of those areas.

However let's be honest. Let's say the terminating point is downtown. For people living in North Norman or West Norman along I-35, then the train is almost pointless. The commute time will jump significantly (almost double) in most cases. The only people it will attract are those that don't want to drive and/or pay for parking downtown. As far as station placement in Norman, I would probably look at...

- Along Classen just north of where it turns off of 12th SE, North of Constitution on the present day site of the OU Motel, Classen Self Storage, etc. That would be ideally suited to serve campus and much of the core of SE Norman.

- Norman Amtrak Downtown - Maybe...this one might be more of an optional stop.

- Westheimer Airport along Flood probably around or just north of Rock Creek since the area near Robinson is a bit too packed right there. Plus it is still somewhat central to those North and South of that area.

However, observing how classic commuter rail works in places like Chicago...I'm not sure it is going to really make a dent. Much like what Kerry is pointing out. If you have too many stops along the way, that is going to make it take longer. Will people really give up the ability to go from downtown to home in south Norman in 30-45 minutes depending on traffic (sometimes faster/slower) just to take a train that will probably take more than hour to make the trip (especially if you add in Moore and South OKC stops).

If I look at commuter rail options from the Western Chicago burbs, it works great there because the highway system is poorly laid out and is packed with traffic. OKC's highways aren't anywhere near as bad.

If is a shallow and a wrong view point then you had better take your opinions to the experts who are planning this because as far I have been able to determine their view points are pretty much identical to mine with the exception of a highway 9 park and ride train station.

These experts have studied the issue at great depth and have the substance backing their side.
My common sense not only tells me that their conclusions for Norman are correct, but also that I should also trust their findings.




PS: The current plan also calls for an OU station somewhere near the OU duck pond at or near an intermodal facility that will be built

I've noticed the increasing amount of cars during rush hour. It is starting to get bad. But, we are nowhere near what Atlanta, Houston, or Dallas is though.


And by staying ahead of the curve on this it won’t be as bad…..and if we act it will help keep our quality of life higher!
It’s why we need to act sooner rather than later.

If is a shallow and a wrong view point then you had better take your opinions to the experts who are planning this because as far I have been able to determine their view points are pretty much identical to mine with the exception of a highway 9 park and ride train station.

These experts have studied the issue at great depth and have the substance backing their side.
My common sense not only tells me that their conclusions for Norman are correct, but also that I should also trust their findings.

PS: The current plan also calls for an OU station somewhere near the OU duck pond at or near an intermodal facility that will be built

Well the OU station is almost exactly where I mentioned, except mine is about half block further south.

If they honestly think having a commuter train stopping every 2 miles is going to encourage people to ride, they are fools and we are wasting money. Now if they commit to an express rail line that will have one stop in Norman, one in Moore/South OKC, and then Downtown...then we are talking. Otherwise it'll be faster to drive.

Now 20-30 years down the road it'll probably be different, however right now you aren't going to get people to give up their cars to take a train north. Especially not with out an extensive light rail network to connect to. If I want to get to the airport, a Norman-Downtown line is worthless to me without a connection to the airport. It is even more worthless if their answer is to use buses as the connection mode. At that point I'm better off take the Norman Spur to 44 and up - it would be fast than the mentioned routing example (I don't drive this way currently since it is about 10 minutes longer than the usual 35/240/59th).


And by staying ahead of the curve on this it won’t be as bad…..and if we act it will help keep our quality of life higher!
It’s why we need to act sooner rather than later.

As long as you, as a tax payer, are willing to subsidize this for a considerable number of years until ridership catches up with the cost demands.

Well the OU station is almost exactly where I mentioned, except mine is about half block further south.

If they honestly think having a commuter train stopping every 2 miles is going to encourage people to ride, they are fools and we are wasting money. Now if they commit to an express rail line that will have one stop in Norman, one in Moore/South OKC, and then Downtown...then we are talking. Otherwise it'll be faster to drive.

Now 20-30 years down the road it'll probably be different, however right now you aren't going to get people to give up their cars to take a train north. Especially not with out an extensive light rail network to connect to. If I want to get to the airport, a Norman-Downtown line is worthless to me without a connection to the airport. It is even more worthless if their answer is to use buses as the connection mode. At that point I'm better off take the Norman Spur to 44 and up - it would be fast than the mentioned routing example (I don't drive this way currently since it is about 10 minutes longer than the usual 35/240/59th).



As long as you, as a tax payer, are willing to subsidize this for a considerable number of years until ridership catches up with the cost demands.

If you (anyone) want’s a successful commuter rail system that has ongoing support it is absolutely critical that a stop be made as close to OU as possible…. even if it means tearing out old apartments and or old rent houses.

There are people who attend OU events who have a great amount of influence in our state. If they like what they see, then the commuter rail system will get the funding they need for ongoing and expanded operations. When this comes up for a vote there will be more support for commuter rail if in part it’s sold as transportation to OU events. There is no getting around this^ and it would be very stupid for supporters to ignore.



Since Rock Creak Street is blocked by the airport and since Tecumseh is now a major east west street. It makes it the best location for a park and ride stop. This will become increasingly true as more housing is built on the north and west sides of Norman.

A downtown Norman train station is simply unrealistic and is a waste of time to even think about.

As far as I am concerned commuter rail will always need subsidized.. The question is how much and from whom? I wouldn’t mind either a sales tax increase or a small gasoline tax increase or a combination of both.


As I understand the plan…. A person from Norman wanting to go to the OKC airport would need to take the train to downtown OKC then take an express bus that will depart for the airport every 10 minutes.

And by staying ahead of the curve on this it won’t be as bad…..and if we act it will help keep our quality of life higher!
It’s why we need to act sooner rather than later.I agree. I also think we need to be responsible with spending though.

300 million - 400 million for commuter rail for the entire metro (save the NW side as it lacks current right of way or infrastructure) is a good investment. The 5 miles of relocated I-40 cost almost 1 billion. (Although it is to be noted the city didn't spend that much -- it is still a good example of the cost of concrete)

I'd still rather see a light rail. :/

If you (anyone) want’s a successful commuter rail system that has ongoing support it is absolutely critical that a stop be made as close to OU as possible…. even if it means tearing out old apartments and or old rent houses.

I don't disagree with this, and the section I pointed out isn't that bad. The area with the least impact is going to be south of Lindsey however. Unless you really want to open the door for eminent domain to come into play here. I'm not sure how familiar you are with that part of Central/East Norman (since you are way up in the NW corner) but that section on the east side of the track are all going to be mostly single family homes. I'm sure a good deal of them of rentals. So if the state wants to avoid the wonders of taking over property for "fair" prices, then the options come to using part of the Duck Pond property or pushing it south of the UHaul facility. You might have enough room to do it there with a commuter parking lot across Classen. If you go further south on Classen before 12th you start to get much more room to play with. CART can also time shuttles to campus based on the train arrival times. It also would leave the station with in walking distance to two large apartment complexes and bicycle distance of all of campus.


There are people who attend OU events who have a great amount of influence in our state. If they like what they see, then the commuter rail system will get the funding they need for ongoing and expanded operations. When this comes up for a vote there will be more support for commuter rail if in part it’s sold as transportation to OU events. There is no getting around this^ and it would be very stupid for supporters to ignore.

It would be great to get to the events, but then they are going to face the obvious question. "Great, so that is 6-8 weeks out of the year, we about the other 44-46 weeks?"


Since Rock Creak Street is blocked by the airport and since Tecumseh is now a major east west street. It makes it the best location for a park and ride stop. This will become increasingly true as more housing is built on the north and west sides of Norman.

So use Robinson instead? Putting a rail stop at Tecumseh moves it further away from the core population of Norman. It is far from the best, maybe best for those suburbanites who chose to build out in BFE, but not to the core population of Central Norman. Robinson is also no longer blocked by railroad tracks, which Tecumseh would be. You also have the ability to utilize space on the airport for additional parking. I'm sure state officials would appreciate being able to take the train to Norman and just walk across Flood to the hangar.


A downtown Norman train station is simply unrealistic and is a waste of time to even think about.

With the other two spots, absolutely.


As far as I am concerned commuter rail will always need subsidized.. The question is how much and from whom? I wouldn’t mind either a sales tax increase or a small gasoline tax increase or a combination of both.

I would like to see what the total build out plan would look like and what the subsidy is going to be.


As I understand the plan…. A person from Norman wanting to go to the OKC airport would need to take the train to downtown OKC then take an express bus that will depart for the airport every 10 minutes.

So let's say perfect conditions.

Norman/Lindsey Station to Downtown OKC - 20 miles = 50 minutes +/- depending on stops
Downtown OKC - WRWA via Bus - 10 miles = 20 minutes depending on traffic

So they just turned my normal 25-35 minute drive into something that will be at least 70 minutes or more.

Is it possible that they could have an "exclusive train" that travels at 100mph, goes straight to downtown Edmond and vice versa?Downtown OKC too obviously? Only comes during morning/evening you pay a little bit more and it does it, maybe, 3 times morning and 2 times evening?

Is it possible that they could have an "exclusive train" that travels at 100mph, goes straight to downtown Edmond and vice versa?Downtown OKC too obviously? Only comes during morning/evening you pay a little bit more and it does it, maybe, 3 times morning and 2 times evening?

Too costly to get the tracks upgraded to handle that. It would also be pretty pointless over such a short distance.

I guess it all depends on what problem we are trying to solve with rail. I am trying to solve sprawl, which in turns solves lots of other problems. For those not trying to solve sprawl, what are you trying to fix?

If you (anyone) want’s a successful commuter rail system that has ongoing support it is absolutely critical that a stop be made as close to OU as possible…. even if it means tearing out old apartments and or old rent houses.

There are people who attend OU events who have a great amount of influence in our state. If they like what they see, then the commuter rail system will get the funding they need for ongoing and expanded operations. When this comes up for a vote there will be more support for commuter rail if in part it’s sold as transportation to OU events. There is no getting around this^ and it would be very stupid for supporters to ignore.



Since Rock Creak Street is blocked by the airport and since Tecumseh is now a major east west street. It makes it the best location for a park and ride stop. This will become increasingly true as more housing is built on the north and west sides of Norman.

A downtown Norman train station is simply unrealistic and is a waste of time to even think about.

As far as I am concerned commuter rail will always need subsidized.. The question is how much and from whom? I wouldn’t mind either a sales tax increase or a small gasoline tax increase or a combination of both.


As I understand the plan…. A person from Norman wanting to go to the OKC airport would need to take the train to downtown OKC then take an express bus that will depart for the airport every 10 minutes.

it is very likely that a train will go to the airport as well ..

it is very likely that a train will go to the airport as well ..


From the plans I have seen the OKC airport will have express bus service from downtown OKC…..
But it would be nice if they did have a fast train to OKC’s airport.

I don't disagree with this, and the section I pointed out isn't that bad. The area with the least impact is going to be south of Lindsey however. Unless you really want to open the door for eminent domain to come into play here. I'm not sure how familiar you are with that part of Central/East Norman (since you are way up in the NW corner) but that section on the east side of the track are all going to be mostly single family homes. I'm sure a good deal of them of rentals. So if the state wants to avoid the wonders of taking over property for "fair" prices, then the options come to using part of the Duck Pond property or pushing it south of the UHaul facility. You might have enough room to do it there with a commuter parking lot across Classen. If you go further south on Classen before 12th you start to get much more room to play with. CART can also time shuttles to campus based on the train arrival times. It also would leave the station with in walking distance to two large apartment complexes and bicycle distance of all of campus.



It would be great to get to the events, but then they are going to face the obvious question. "Great, so that is 6-8 weeks out of the year, we about the other 44-46 weeks?"



So use Robinson instead? Putting a rail stop at Tecumseh moves it further away from the core population of Norman. It is far from the best, maybe best for those suburbanites who chose to build out in BFE, but not to the core population of Central Norman. Robinson is also no longer blocked by railroad tracks, which Tecumseh would be. You also have the ability to utilize space on the airport for additional parking. I'm sure state officials would appreciate being able to take the train to Norman and just walk across Flood to the hangar.



With the other two spots, absolutely.



I would like to see what the total build out plan would look like and what the subsidy is going to be.



So let's say perfect conditions.

Norman/Lindsey Station to Downtown OKC - 20 miles = 50 minutes +/- depending on stops
Downtown OKC - WRWA via Bus - 10 miles = 20 minutes depending on traffic

So they just turned my normal 25-35 minute drive into something that will be at least 70 minutes or more.






The right of eminent domain may be needed but the area I see the biggest need for it would be on the west side of the tracks, north of Brooks. My perfect location for an OU train station would be on the North West side of the Duck Pond. This would likely require the removal of part of an apartment complex and maybe a few old homes. I think OU would like to have control over most of this land anyway. The RR siding could continue south on the west side of the Duck Pond in an elevated state crossing over Lindsey St before rejoining the main track line. This would be a much better Amtrak stop for students and for others wanting to catch a bus or the commuter train.

As I mentioned previously the North West corner of the Duck Pond is where they plan on building an intermodal bus station. OU has thousands of students, staff, faculty, and visitors daily. With a park and ride and a bus system that would target OU and the older parts of Norman. I really don’t think there would be a shortage of every day riders. The core population of Norman is much less likely to be commuters, but they would have bus service to either Norman train stop and they would still have the ability to drive to either location.

I think it’s important to remember how Norman will evolve over the next 50 years and beyond. This is something that needs to be done right from the very start. With the large tracks of vacant land large nearby apartment complexes and condos are a distinct possibility at a Tecumseh station location. Major new high density housing is virtually imposable near Robison. Norman will continue to grow to the north. Tecumseh is a well-designed street with other well designed streets in the area.

For somebody who commutes from Norman to work at OKC’s airport daily this isn’t that practical, but if you are taking a flight it might not be that bad.

I think I understood that eventually there would be a central Oklahoma metro bus system that would feed the train and operated with express bus service to select locations.

Taking the train from Edmond & Norman to OKC downtown events that occur with frequency is another way to sell the plan. Planers need to have the capacity to handle events. Having some spare capacity will allow for more flexibility to service high demand events but also give the system the ability to better maintain equipment.

From the plans I have seen the OKC airport will have express bus service from downtown OKC…..
But it would be nice if they did have a fast train to OKC’s airport.

Which makes it pointless unless you are nearby to take it.


The right of eminent domain may be needed but the area I see the biggest need for it would be on the west side of the tracks, north of Brooks. My perfect location for an OU train station would be on the North West side of the Duck Pond. This would likely require the removal of part of an apartment complex and maybe a few old homes. I think OU would like to have control over most of this land anyway. The RR siding could continue south on the west side of the Duck Pond in an elevated state crossing over Lindsey St before rejoining the main track line. This would be a much better Amtrak stop for students and for others wanting to catch a bus or the commuter train.

Umm. Have you even looked at a map? NW side of the Duck Pond does not have enough room for something like this. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the land requirements for a commuter rail station, but it'll have to go east of the Duck Pond if not east of the tracks completely. You also have an OG&E power sub station right there at Brooks and the tracks. If they are bent on having it west of the tracks right now then putting it in the park area of the Duck Pond (east side) would be the most logical placement.


As I mentioned previously the North West corner of the Duck Pond is where they plan on building an intermodal bus station. OU has thousands of students, staff, faculty, and visitors daily. With a park and ride and a bus system that would target OU and the older parts of Norman. I really don’t think there would be a shortage of every day riders. The core population of Norman is much less likely to be commuters, but they would have bus service to either Norman train stop and they would still have the ability to drive to either location.

The bus facility and train station don't have to be the same building...people can walk a little to connect form one to the other. You also need room for a commuter lot if they intend on having Norman residents use it to go to the city. Your area NW of the Duck Pond is locked with development already except for a campus parking lot which can be easily converted.


I think it’s important to remember how Norman will evolve over the next 50 years and beyond. This is something that needs to be done right from the very start. With the large tracks of vacant land large nearby apartment complexes and condos are a distinct possibility at a Tecumseh station location. Major new high density housing is virtually imposable near Robison. Norman will continue to grow to the north. Tecumseh is a well-designed street with other well designed streets in the area.

Of course, but you have to consider what we are talking about here...Commuter Rail - not light rail. Light rail seems to be more of what they are wanting if they want stops so close together. I'm not sure what you experience with riding commuter rail has been, but this is starting to sound more and more like light rail. Commuter rail uses the full size rail cars and engines, not subway-like trains.


For somebody who commutes from Norman to work at OKC’s airport daily this isn’t that practical, but if you are taking a flight it might not be that bad.

I could see it being more beneficial to the business traveler that isn't lugging around a bunch of bags or is traveling on a schedule that works with the mass transit options.


Taking the train from Edmond & Norman to OKC downtown events that occur with frequency is another way to sell the plan. Planers need to have the capacity to handle events. Having some spare capacity will allow for more flexibility to service high demand events but also give the system the ability to better maintain equipment.

You can't bank the whole system on special events. That is like trying to tell airlines to beef up service to New Orleans year round because they hosted the Super Bowl this year and Mardi Gras is coming up. There needs to be a business case for offering frequent service throughout the day with ridership that will be steady. Again...20-30 years down the road this area may be there, today it will be nothing more than a novelty that will wear off quick.

Which makes it pointless unless you are nearby to take it.



Umm. Have you even looked at a map? NW side of the Duck Pond does not have enough room for something like this. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the land requirements for a commuter rail station, but it'll have to go east of the Duck Pond if not east of the tracks completely. You also have an OG&E power sub station right there at Brooks and the tracks. If they are bent on having it west of the tracks right now then putting it in the park area of the Duck Pond (east side) would be the most logical placement.



The bus facility and train station don't have to be the same building...people can walk a little to connect form one to the other. You also need room for a commuter lot if they intend on having Norman residents use it to go to the city. Your area NW of the Duck Pond is locked with development already except for a campus parking lot which can be easily converted.



Of course, but you have to consider what we are talking about here...Commuter Rail - not light rail. Light rail seems to be more of what they are wanting if they want stops so close together. I'm not sure what you experience with riding commuter rail has been, but this is starting to sound more and more like light rail. Commuter rail uses the full size rail cars and engines, not subway-like trains.



I could see it being more beneficial to the business traveler that isn't lugging around a bunch of bags or is traveling on a schedule that works with the mass transit options.



You can't bank the whole system on special events. That is like trying to tell airlines to beef up service to New Orleans year round because they hosted the Super Bowl this year and Mardi Gras is coming up. There needs to be a business case for offering frequent service throughout the day with ridership that will be steady. Again...20-30 years down the road this area may be there, today it will be nothing more than a novelty that will wear off quick.

I have been to the OU duck pond and the large parking lot on the North West corner of the Duck pond hundreds of times…….

An elevated platform that extends northward and over Brooks Street and south of the parking lot affords this location plenty of space for a lengthy passenger train with full size rail cars and engines.

A waiting room could be built in the parking lot. The tracks and a covered platform would be located well west of the OG&E power substation.

As I explained in my previous post….. I don’t think there will be a shortage of every day riders, at least in Norman…. There are thousands of Norman commuters who not only drive to downtown OKC but there are also many who come to OU daily….

So this is not a system based on just on special events.

But if you want to successfully sell commuter rail to the public special events had better be included in selling the plan to the public or risk a significantly lower chance of vote passage by the public.

ODOT's new 8 year plan. . . http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/cirb/pdfs/cirb_fy2013-2017_workplan.pdf

ODOT's new 8 year plan. . . http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/cirb/pdfs/cirb_fy2013-2017_workplan.pdf

That's the 5 year work plan for County Improvements for Roads and Bridges...

Interestingly enough, I didn't see ANYTHING in there for Cleveland County. Wonder if they are all in good shape or being blacklisted somehow by ODOT.

That is not the full report, just county roads.

This might be more helpful: http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/cwp-8-year-plan/cwp_ffy2013-ffy2020/pdfs/cwp_ffy2013-2020.pdf

That is not the full report, just county roads.

This might be more helpful: http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/cwp-8-year-plan/cwp_ffy2013-ffy2020/pdfs/cwp_ffy2013-2020.pdf

and that is the old 8 year plan .. that came out 9/2012

Didn't even realize it. Hang on, I'll look for it again.

Here is the press release: http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/newsmedia/press/2013/13-042_the_six_billion_dollar_plan_odots_new_eight_ye ar_plan_approved.pdf

Construction Work Plan (http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/cwp-8-year-plan/index.htm)

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/cwp-8-year-plan/cwp_ffy2013-ffy2020/pdfs/cwp_ffy2013-2020.pdf

hopefully this is better.

Construction Work Plan (http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/cwp-8-year-plan/index.htm)

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/cwp-8-year-plan/cwp_ffy2013-ffy2020/pdfs/cwp_ffy2013-2020.pdf

hopefully this is better.

press release is current ... 8 year plan is still the 2012 release

I think the confusion is the new 8-year plan is only for county and rural roads. Just my best guess...there has likely been no change to the current 8 year plan for major roadways.

awww that sucks. I thought maybe they moved some major projects up. . . :/

I think the confusion is the new 8-year plan is only for county and rural roads. Just my best guess...there has likely been no change to the current 8 year plan for major roadways.

the link just hasn't been updated yet the new 8 year plan includes phases moved up for the I44 I235 interchange ... and the start of the crossroads interchange in 2015 ..

the 5 year CIRB plan .. is something totally different

^
Likely this. I will just keep my mouth shut now :)

the link just hasn't been updated yet the new 8 year plan includes phases moved up for the I44 I235 interchange ... and the start of the crossroads interchange in 2015 ..

the 5 year CIRB plan .. is something totally differentoh, awesome then!!!!

It looks like this is the new report. Dated Oct 7, 2013

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/cwp-8-year-plan/cwp_ffy2014-ffy2021/cwp_ffy2014-2021.pdf

Always good to see that the 240/35 interchange won't be done until 2022 with work not really starting until 2020. Sigh.

Always good to see that the 240/35 interchange won't be done until 2022 with work not really starting until 2020. Sigh.

phase 1 in 2015

Always good to see that the 240/35 interchange won't be done until 2022 with work not really starting until 2020. Sigh.

You will be riding a train to downtown OKC by then so don't worry about it :).

phase 1 in 2015

Did you even bother to read it? Phase 1 is mostly right of way acquisition...granted it does include the worst part EB 240 to SB 35. Then there is a 5 year pause in anything.


You will be riding a train to downtown OKC by then so don't worry about it :).

We can only hope! Though I wonder if I'll even still be here by then. Having snow in the winter and being by water again is calling my name more and more every day. LOL :)

We can only hope! Though I wonder if I'll even still be here by then. Having snow in the winter and being by water again is calling my name more and more every day. LOL :)

Come down to Jax and I would be happy to show you some nice walkable neighborhoods near the river or the ocean. No snow but plenty of water. My wife is encouraging me to become a real estate agent focusing on traditional neighborhoods and urban living so I can use a test case :).

Did you even bother to read it? Phase 1 is mostly right of way acquisition...granted it does include the worst part EB 240 to SB 35. Then there is a 5 year pause in anything.



i did read it .. that is why i said phase 1 in 2015 ..

Come down to Jax and I would be happy to show you some nice walkable neighborhoods near the river or the ocean. No snow but plenty of water. My wife is encouraging me to become a real estate agent focusing on traditional neighborhoods and urban living so I can use a test case :).

LOL...hurray for being a guinea pig. If I go anywhere it would be back north. I was sorta bummed I missed out on the aurora last night, it has been years since I've seen it. Anyway...I'm off topic now. LOL

Wondering what this little project is:

I-40 Crosstown: UPRR at the Harter Yard Railroad Rehabilitation

It lets next month so I guess we'll find out soon enough.


It looks like this is the new report. Dated Oct 7, 2013

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/cwp-8-year-plan/cwp_ffy2014-ffy2021/cwp_ffy2014-2021.pdf

I love J Michael Patterson's signature...little overdone...

Did anyone notice the signature????

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7390/10179767275_eaabcd3140_c.jpg

What is up with that?? Was that a joke or something, or is that really the guys signature?

Signatures don't really mean much anymore in the digital age.... Sometimes when I sign stuff I just draw a small picture or make up a name. Unless I'm at work signing something the FAA/internal audits will see.

I know, I just thought it was odd that a "professional" would sign like that for a public state document. It doesn't bother me, I just thought it was funny and perhaps it was an inside joke I am unaware about or something

Signatures don't really mean much anymore in the digital age.... Sometimes when I sign stuff I just draw a small picture or make up a name. Unless I'm at work signing something the FAA/internal audits will see.

My sig means something to me dawg gone it, lol. I practiced that thing like no other when I was a kid so when I was famous it'd be beautiful yet legible.

I know, I just thought it was odd that a "professional" would sign like that for a public state document. It doesn't bother me, I just thought it was funny and perhaps it was an inside joke I am unaware about or something

That's not really a sig. I think it might be a first rendering of the upcoming redo for the 240/35 interchange.

That's not really a sig. I think it might be a first rendering of the upcoming redo for the 240/35 interchange.

Cloverleafs everywhere!

I wish ODOT would get with the program and build something like this.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3635/3359953558_e1523a56fd.jpg

The I-40/I-44 interchange would probably be the best place given the volume that goes through it. Also, it would be a great showcase for people approaching OKC from the west.

I wish ODOT would get with the program and build something like this.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3635/3359953558_e1523a56fd.jpg

The I-40/I-44 interchange would probably be the best place given the volume that goes through it. Also, it would be a great showcase for people approaching OKC from the west.OMG yes please!!!!!!! I looooove the high five!!!

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3739/10232013684_a32a82fc05_z.jpg

Notice how the service roads go all the way through the interchange, unlike most of the ones here in Oklahoma. If they could place this exactly where you stated, I-44/I-40 right, near the Dell call center, that would be awesome!!!! It would be even more cool if the incorporated a light-rail system going through this. ..

Drugs are bad.

Drugs are bad.

The kid has it bad for Texas and Dallas, give him a few years to at least be of legal age for drinking to start expecting common sense to start developing. :)

Sorry, I don't think the High 5 is the hallmark of civilization......

Sorry, I don't think the High 5 is the hallmark of civilization......

But just imagine how amazing it would look covered in an inch of ice after one of our typical ice storms...just ignore the cars plummeting off the edges.

I remember the day that I dreamed of living in Dallas...Young, dumb, and full of...well that's not board appropriate

But just imagine how amazing it would look covered in an inch of ice after one of our typical ice storms...just ignore the cars plummeting off the edges.

Anything to get people living downtown :lol2:


[totally a joke]

I remember the day that I dreamed of living in Dallas...Young, dumb, and full of...well that's not board appropriate
I remember those days as well, two years later I moved back to OKC.

Drugs are bad.Yes they are! But know this, vitamins are good! :)

The kid has it bad for Texas and Dallas, give him a few years to at least be of legal age for drinking to start expecting common sense to start developing. :)Because I want an efficient interchange that has proven itself time and time again, I don't have any common sense for developing? Seriously? So I suppose no one here would like a high-five for the I40/I44 interchange. . . Why is that exactly?

Sorry, I don't think the High 5 is the hallmark of civilization......Never said it was, I do think it is a hallmark for efficient interchange designs for vehicles, but surely no one on this board is against having efficient and top notch engineering for highways and interchanges.

I remember the day that I dreamed of living in Dallas...Young, dumb, and full of...well that's not board appropriateI have lived in Dallas. I have no desire to live there at this point. It's funny though how a bunch of members of this board put down Dallas and say things like "Dallas is for people with no common sense" and "Dallas is for young and dumb people that are full of sh*t", yet Dallas seems to always be in the top five best cities lists, well, every best cities list that is positive.

But just imagine how amazing it would look covered in an inch of ice after one of our typical ice storms...just ignore the cars plummeting off the edges.Venture, I really don't know why you hate Dallas, the only reason I use Dallas as an example is due to the fact that Dallas is the only other city I've lived in.

Denver has huge interchanges, it gets pretty cold in Denver. Aren't you from Michigan??? You ought to know Detroit has some pretty big flyovers. Atlanta, Houston, Seattle, L.A. and there are even four level stack interchanges in Britain and China has a 6 level stack interchange apparently.

I just did some extensive research on stack interchanges and in order to have a five level stack, you generally need to accommodate HOV lanes. It's obvious a good majority of this board does not support spending big money on highways, but I do. That's my opinion and will it change with, I can't tell you. But just remember whenever you put down Dallas, it is a nationally recognized city for many things and offers a lot that many many other cities in the U.S. does not. Sorry if I use Dallas as an example of anything, but I know Dallas really well, so that would be why I do that.

I have lived in Dallas. I have no desire to live there at this point. It's funny though how a bunch of members of this board put down Dallas and say things like "Dallas is for people with no common sense" and "Dallas is for young and dumb people that are full of sh*t", yet Dallas seems to always be in the top five best cities lists, well, every best cities list that is positive.

Austin is almost always at the top of that list too...yet they have one of the worst highway systems on a major city. So I don't think the High 5 is a qualifying feature.

Who said Dallas was for people with no common sense? I made a common sense comment, but it wasn't in that regard. What is great for Dallas doesn't mean it is great for OKC. Climate and expense has to be considered. Also the existing I-40/44 interchange really isn't that bad of a design right now. The traffic issues from my experience around there are from issues downstream a bit...not the interchange itself.

I get it though where you come from with your comments. I have a wild imagination that I have to keep under control otherwise I end up envisioning things for my hometown that are completely unrealistic. Nothing wrong with that, it is just something that needs to be kept in check and realistic.

As far as Teo's young, dumb...comment. Yeah...I'm guessing you never heard that saying before. LOL

Austin is almost always at the top of that list too...yet they have one of the worst highway systems on a major city. So I don't think the High 5 is a qualifying feature.

Who said Dallas was for people with no common sense? I made a common sense comment, but it wasn't in that regard. What is great for Dallas doesn't mean it is great for OKC. Climate and expense has to be considered. Also the existing I-40/44 interchange really isn't that bad of a design right now. The traffic issues from my experience around there are from issues downstream a bit...not the interchange itself.

I get it though where you come from with your comments. I have a wild imagination that I have to keep under control otherwise I end up envisioning things for my hometown that are completely unrealistic. Nothing wrong with that, it is just something that needs to be kept in check and realistic.

As far as Teo's young, dumb...comment. Yeah...I'm guessing you never heard that saying before. LOLI understand, I just think that a four level stack interchange could work here, and it would be great. If Denver and Detroit have them, I'm sure we could make something work. Dallas spent 260 million on the high five, we are spending something like 170 million(I could be wrong on that and please correct me if I am) on the I235/I44 interchange, and that is a half flyover half cloverleaf interchange. I don't understand it.

Also, are you thinking of the same interchange as I am? I am talking about the one near Dell calling center, that moves from the new crosstown. . .