cost=$54 million

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fairgroundswiki1.jpg
Information & Latest News
The MAPS 3 Fairground Improvement projects will consist of a new Expo Building, which will replace aging event buildings that are used year round, along with additional parking and relocation of a portion of the carnival/midway area. The proposed projects will be constructed in two phases, Phase 1 – Parking and Site Improvements and Phase 2 – New Expo Building. The budget for Phase 1 is $4,716,000 and the budget for Phase 2 is $53,974,000 for a total Fairgrounds budget of $58,690,000.
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When are they going to do something about the grounds of the area? There are some simple things they could do that would help to clean up that area a ton, but it's pretty run down looking in its current state.

Pete, this is going to sound like a stupid question, but is the building layout you're describing in the photos above something recently released, or has this been in the offing for some time?

I'd be less than forthright if I didn't confess I've all but given up on the fair and the way its been destroyed over the last decade, and it looks to me TPTB are wanting to put the nail in the coffin by blowing away the bulk of the midway. So I guess I'm curious as to the state of this layout.

Dave, the MAPS 3 funds were allocated for this project and the MAPS Fairgrounds Subcommittee paid a design firm to come up with a master plan and general placement of the proposed Expo building.

The study was just presented a week ago. Once accepted, they will start moving forward with Phase I (largely parking) then ultimately Phase II (new building).


300,000 s.f. is a huge building! Will be 4-5 times the size of Cox Pavilion which replaced the old International Building.

Here's a video visualization of the proposed improvements:

0Vn567wCs2M#!

The same firm that is doing the convention center (Populous) has been selected to be a partner on this project as well...

The same firm that is doing the convention center (Populous) has been selected to be a partner on this project as well...

Pays to play the game.

Here are some conceptual renderings:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fair.jpg


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Pays to play the game.

Pays. Interesting word.

The Event Center is impressive looking, to be sure, but I guess I just can't help but wonder where we're going to have a fair. We've built a ton of horse barns and now we're covering up another chunk w/this new facility.

As I said, though, we've kinda bailed on the fair, and it may be the powerbroker types are trying to quietly get rid of the fair anyway, so the whole issue may be moot.

Interesting to see how it unfolds.

The second rendering in the original post shows the new proposed carnival area in red; this is the latest proposal which differs somewhat from the renderings and video I posted, which are now over a year old.

Don't forget they recently demolished the old speedway so that adds lots of space.

If we are building a 300,000 sq ft Exhibition Hall at the Fairgrounds, why do we "need" 200,000+ sq ft of convention center in the middle of downtown? Seems like one or the other is a pretty sizable waste of taxpayer dollars........

If we are building a 300,000 sq ft Exhibition Hall at the Fairgrounds, why do we "need" 200,000+ sq ft of convention center in the middle of downtown? Seems like one or the other is a pretty sizable waste of taxpayer dollars........

THIS! I have this exact question. We sure as hell aren't hosting enough things that we need 500,000 + square feet of space in the middle of downtown.

I just wish they'd fix the space needle.

THIS! I have this exact question. We sure as hell aren't hosting enough things that we need 500,000 + square feet of space in the middle of downtown.

Maybe the reason we don't have that many events to host is because we don't have 500,000 sf of space to host with.

Maybe the reason we don't have that many events to host is because we don't have 500,000 sf of space to host with.Aha, I know your secret agenda to have a 500,000 sf BBQ showcase. ;) jk

I think the two facilities would serve somewhat different purposes, as they do in most cities.

The Convention Center will be for more regional/national types of events and the fairgrounds has always been about more local/statewide with a lot of horse/livestock/agri-business.

I think the two facilities would serve somewhat different purposes, as they do in most cities.

The Convention Center will be for more regional/national types of events and the fairgrounds has always been about more local/statewide with a lot of horse/livestock/agri-business.Do you think we could get better quality car shows with this?

Aha, I know your secret agenda to have a 500,000 sf BBQ showcase. ;) jk

LOL.... I'm not sure 500,000 sf is big enough to hold my BBQ showcase. :p

I think the two facilities would serve somewhat different purposes, as they do in most cities.

The Convention Center will be for more regional/national types of events and the fairgrounds has always been about more local/statewide with a lot of horse/livestock/agri-business.

I can accept that explanation - IF - we only built a nice 200,000 - 250,000 sq ft convention center downtown. I think it is very difficult to justify a phase 2 to the CC that adds another 200,000 sq ft to it especially with this facility at the Fairgrounds. Honestly though, I think the Cox CC has more local/state events than regional and the justification for an extremely large CC is weak at best.

But hopefully this building at the fairgrounds will turn out well and be a nice venue for events there - and maybe put the downtown CC in better perspective.

The Event Center is impressive looking, to be sure, but I guess I just can't help but wonder where we're going to have a fair. We've built a ton of horse barns and now we're covering up another chunk w/this new facility.

As I said, though, we've kinda bailed on the fair, and it may be the powerbroker types are trying to quietly get rid of the fair anyway, so the whole issue may be moot.

Interesting to see how it unfolds.

I have no idea what you mean by this. What do you consider a fair to be? Exhibition areas are certainly one of the main focuses of any fair and that's always the principal reason I ever went to the fair. If you're talking about the midway, it appears that the location is just being moved.

I have no idea what you mean by this. What do you consider a fair to be? Exhibition areas are certainly one of the main focuses of any fair and that's always the principal reason I ever went to the fair. If you're talking about the midway, it appears that the location is just being moved.

Well, perhaps my characterization was too harsh, but I guess part of me thinks of at least a good portion of the fair to be outside. You enclose that volume of space and you're just losing a lot of that outside venue opportunity. I could be wrong, but it looks like the midway area isn't as large in these new renderings.

C'est la vie. As I said, our family kinda gave up on the fair when the Wegner regime came in and implemented his scorched-earth policy, tore the place up and kicked (well, squeezed) out a lot of great traditional vendors, so the newer folks have their own vision of what it should be. What I hoped for, which meant an upgrade with an homage to tradition, apparently puts me in a decided minority, so I just have to be among those who takes a step back and sees how it unfolds.

I expect there to be at least some discussion (as has been started here) about the relative merit of building 200-300K sq ft convention space at the fairgrounds in the midst of the fight over building a similar scale of space downtown. Realize there's merit in both, but understand if it raises questions, so I'm not sure how I feel about it. Either way, it should result in the drawing of some fairly interesting battle lines/alliances in the weeks ahead. While I realize it was all part of the same general ballot,

While I realize it was all on the same ballot, I don't think most folks truly realized they were signing up to build two convention centers (especially when the polling data pre-MAPS3 showed there was not sufficient general public support for one new downtown convention center on its own, hence the melting pot of projects that MAPS3 became)...

I can accept that explanation - IF - we only built a nice 200,000 - 250,000 sq ft convention center downtown. I think it is very difficult to justify a phase 2 to the CC that adds another 200,000 sq ft to it especially with this facility at the Fairgrounds. Honestly though, I think the Cox CC has more local/state events than regional and the justification for an extremely large CC is weak at best.

But hopefully this building at the fairgrounds will turn out well and be a nice venue for events there - and maybe put the downtown CC in better perspective.

they serve 2 entirely different purposes and 2 different client bases ... there is very little to no overlap

they serve 2 entirely different purposes and 2 different client bases ... there is very little to no overlap

That may be 100% true - all I am saying is we need to seriously consider the need for a final price tag of around $1 billion (a guesstimate that includes CC Phase 1, Fairgrounds Building, CC Hotel, and CC Phase 2) of convention/exhibition space in comparison to other projects that are much higher on the list of preferences for the people that are funding MAPS. I think the new fairgrounds building will benefit the city as will a nice, reasonably sized new CC. But should we spend another several hundred million when transit, public safety, and other basic city services are more important to most citizens of OKC?

I hope this fairgounds project will include refurbishing the transportation exhibits in the courtyard of the Transportation Building that have been neglected. As many have stated, we need to do a better job blending the new and old at the fairgrounds. We have built a pretty nice equine facility and several other improvements but seemed to discard some of the features many people enjoyed without much thought.

That may be 100% true - all I am saying is we need to seriously consider the need for a final price tag of around $1 billion (a guesstimate that includes CC Phase 1, Fairgrounds Building, CC Hotel, and CC Phase 2) of convention/exhibition space in comparison to other projects that are much higher on the list of preferences for the people that are funding MAPS. I think the new fairgrounds building will benefit the city as will a nice, reasonably sized new CC. But should we spend another several hundred million when transit, public safety, and other basic city services are more important to most citizens of OKC?

Well said, CaptDave.

If there were really a close tune to what was most important to the broadest cross section of OKC residents, I'm not convinced we'd be building a downtown convention center. Sorry to be so cynical about it, because I generally support its development (and recognize the age/utility of the Myriad), but the downtown convention center was, if ever there was one, an "agenda" item blended in with "popular" balm to get it passed/funded. As I noted above, the notion of a CC never polled well, and TPTB knew a CC-based MAPS3 would not succeed. So they threw in lots of "goodies" that may or may not ever see the light of day, but were enough of a carrot to get the vote out and pass it. But you can bet your bottom $$ we're going to get a CC. At least one.



I hope this fairgounds project will include refurbishing the transportation exhibits in the courtyard of the Transportation Building that have been neglected. As many have stated, we need to do a better job blending the new and old at the fairgrounds. We have built a pretty nice equine facility and several other improvements but seemed to discard some of the features many people enjoyed without much thought.

Unless I'm misinterpreting the photo Pete posted, that entire building (and presumably the exhibits therein) will be razed. No rehab -- which would be consistent with the fairgrounds plans to date - scorched earth. I tend to think the current leaders of the fair would be just as happy if the fair quietly disappeared entirely. If I'm misinterpreting that photo, Pete (or anyone else), please advise accordingly.

The Transportation Building, Carriage Hall and the courtyard between them will all be demolished.


Time for Friends for a Better Fairgrounds? ;)

The Transportation Building, Carriage Hall and the courtyard between them will all be demolished.


Time for Friends for a Better Fairgrounds? ;)

Darn. Really kinda hoped I'd been wrong on that one. Like I said, scorched earth.

To address several points:

The fairgrounds building will be FLEX space for things like car shows and landscaping expos with heavy machinery in use on the floor. The convention center will be professional meeting space and grand hall dinner space with carpet and nice finishes. Two completely different concepts. Both really needed for OKC.

I almost fell out of my chair when I read that we should try and save the travel and transportation building! (although that wouldn't be the first time that happened by reading a post on here) ;)
They have done their best to rehab that space, but it is dreadful from the interior, to the bathrooms, to the appeal of the exterior. Wow.. I just can't believe someone wants to salvage it.

This WILL be a game changer for the fairgrounds, and I love the rendering.

Yes, the Transportation Building is really dreadful.

Perhaps they can relocate the items in the courtyard.

Yes, the Transportation Building is really dreadful.

Perhaps they can relocate the items in the courtyard.

Yes, just to clarify, that was what I was hoping for...some preservation of those items, very little point in tossing big $ in saving the building itself

That said, I have some good concert memories of the T&T building. Pearl Jam/Urge Overkill; Nirvana/Breeders/Shonen Knife; Public Image Ltd/Big Audio Dynamite II/Live/Blind Melon; Smashing Pumpkins. I saw all of those bands there. I will tip my cap to the T&T building when it comes down.

Yes, for a number of years (at least throughout the 80's) a group of friends always organized a huge Halloween party there as well.

I'm always sad to see any of my history go but in this case that building was really, really rough even 30 years ago.

Actually, when I think about it some more, that last show might actually have been in a different building at the fairgrounds. Yeah, tear the sucker down.

Nirvana also played there in 1993. Love everyone of those bands you listed, Urbanized.


Just goes to show the sad state of OKC music venues in the 80's and 90's.

I can't find it right now, but the "duplication" of convention center space was brought up during the campaign (maybe in one of the "Breaking Through" luncheons?) and as others have pointed out, they serve different cliental. Similar to the duplication going on with the MAPS 3 Park and the Myriad Gardens...many of the same items but a difference in the scope of crowds each can handle.

In reading some history about the original MAPS, there was opposition by the Meridian motel corridor in revamping the Cox with MAPS. they were afraid that it would take business from them so plans were made even back then to beef up the Fairgrounds facilities to get them onboard with MAPS. That thought process seems to be intact.

The Oklahoma State Fair is dead. Nothing of interest to most people is left. All that is there are things that attract a "low life" element of gangbangers, teenagers looking for an excuse to get drunk and laid, and people who generally look like they just crawled out from under a rock. The Kansas and Texas state fairs are light years ahead of the joke Oklahoma calls a state fair.

I guess they are completely shutting the door on fixing the space needle since they are planing to make a reflecting pool around it with no pedestrian connection

The Oklahoma State Fair is dead. Nothing of interest to most people is left. All that is there are things that attract a "low life" element of gangbangers, teenagers looking for an excuse to get drunk and laid, and people who generally look like they just crawled out from under a rock. The Kansas and Texas state fairs are light years ahead of the joke Oklahoma calls a state fair.REALLY!?!? Did you go to the fair this year? It looked just like the fair in Texas as far number of people go. I think the state fair is alive and well but thats me.

The Kansas and Texas state fairs are light years ahead of the joke Oklahoma calls a state fair.

I have been to the Texas State Fair over 40 times while attending the OU-Texas game. I never saw anything there that made me say WOW. It's basically what you would see at the Oklahoma State Fair.

I have been to the Texas State Fair over 40 times while attending the OU-Texas game. I never saw anything there that made me say WOW. It's basically what you would see at the Oklahoma State Fair.


Yup.. They basically haul around the same crap to every state fair around the country.

Yup.. They basically haul around the same crap to every state fair around the country.

Even the Tulsa State Fair?

Hehehe.

I almost fell out of my chair when I read that we should try and save the travel and transportation building! (although that wouldn't be the first time that happened by reading a post on here) ;)
They have done their best to rehab that space, but it is dreadful from the interior, to the bathrooms, to the appeal of the exterior. Wow.. I just can't believe someone wants to salvage it.

This WILL be a game changer for the fairgrounds, and I love the rendering.


Yes, the Transportation Building is really dreadful.

Perhaps they can relocate the items in the courtyard.I hated to see the monorail and racetrack go. I will hate to see the needle have a similar fate. But the Transportation building is just a metal building pretty much like any other metal building. And one which needs a lot of work. It has no architectural or historical significance. It will be a good thing for it to be replaced with something larger with new mechanical elements.

I was at the south side of the fairgrounds a few days ago and saw what I think is the rocket that was in the courtyard laying on it's side by a parking lot. I didn't really pay any attention then but now I'm going to go by and double check.

I hated to see the monorail and racetrack go. I will hate to see the needle have a similar fate.


Is it a given they're going to rip the Needle down? Is there even a glimmer of hope we can save the thing, or are TPTB bent on destroying it, too?

Even the Tulsa State Fair?

Hehehe.

That is the one I have never understood... which one is the "real" state fair of Oklahoma.

That is the one I have never understood... which one is the "real" state fair of Oklahoma.

Since we don't call ours the Oklahoma City State Fair, I would say that ours is the "real" state fair and Tulsans think they are their own state, with their own state fair...LOL

The official names for the one in OKC is the State Fair of Oklahoma. The one in Tulsa is the Tulsa State Fair.

They are both considered "state fairs". I don't think there is much difference other than the names.

Perhaps it began as the Tulsa State of Mind Fair, but then bumper sticker ink got more expensive?

Went parade marching and then fairolicking every year 8th grade - senior year. All in all, not a bad gig for a teenager.

I guess regional fair does not have the same ring to it, it is not as if we are the only state with multiple cities holding it's own

I guess regional fair does not have the same ring to it, it is not as if we are the only state with multiple cities holding it's own

And I bet "City Wide Carnival Featuring Games and Politically Incorrect Clowns On Dunk Tanks And Really Greasy Good Food" just wouldn't fit on a banner :)

As I remarked on another thread, the word will be that space needle ridership is way down over the past two years (ignore that it was closed), so obviously it's no longer an attraction, doesn't fit the desired image (whatever that is), and needs to go. As some might say, "hear me now; believe me later."

As I remarked on another thread, the word will be that space needle ridership is way down over the past two years (ignore that it was closed), so obviously it's no longer an attraction, doesn't fit the desired image (whatever that is), and needs to go. As some might say, "hear me now; believe me later."

From the video it looks like it is being converted to a tall 360 degree electric billboard with a water feature at the base, my guess the argument will go something like: the parts for maintaining the elevator are no longer made

I like it and think it should be made operational and stay. But, that's my opinion. :)

They just released new renderings and more specific plans for the massive new expo building for the State Fairgrounds.

This is a $44 million 280,000 square foot project, and the plan is to start construction in October of 2014:



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At what point to the powers that be just put an end to the fair as we know it? I mean, surely that's on someone's unstated agenda.

I mean, let's be honest - there's really nothing left, particularly after this thing goes in. And from the looks of it, this thing will gobble up most of the midway, so what I believe has been the ultimate goal of the power brokers over the fair for the last decade or so - to get rid of it - is finally being realized.

No real point in maintaining and pretense otherwise at this point, is there?

I realize to some a slew of new buildings constitutes progress, and in some way I suppose it is, but the elimination of the fair in the process (in my book) is anything but.

I fully expect some dismissive announcement in the coming weeks or months issued under the pretense of great sadness and reluctance that the "financials just don't add up" and the "liabilities were getting too high" to have a fair (or similar words to that effect) and that'll be that. I note that construction on this thing starts after what would be next year's fair, so they could have a whole year to celebrate its demise.

Believe it or not, fair attendance has been at near records over the last few years.

Obviously, it's changed quite a bit but that's probably true of all fairs.


And of course, the fair is only in town for a couple of weeks, which leaves 50 weeks where there is the opportunity to bring in various types of shows and events. They seem to be experiencing some good success in those areas.

And of course, the fair is only in town for a couple of weeks, which leaves 50 weeks where there is the opportunity to bring in various types of shows and events. They seem to be experiencing some good success in those areas.

Exactly what I was going to say.

The original amount allotted from the MAPS 3 vote was $60 million for State Fairgrounds Improvements. Is the other $16 million going toward something else at the state fairgrounds, another project entirely, other?

They are doing a bunch of parking improvements and will be implementing new signage as well.

They are doing a bunch of parking improvements and will be implementing new signage as well.

Would it be safe to assume the old racetrack will be turned into parking?

Would it be safe to assume the old racetrack will be turned into parking?

I believe that is the plan.

Would it be safe to assume the old racetrack will be turned into parking?


I believe that is the plan.Wow, I was really hoping for a possibility of F1 racing here. . . Wasn't this one of the proposed locations?